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/vr/ - Retro Games


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3404518 No.3404518 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Why do people hate the N64 controller so much? Are your hands too big or what?

I brought a N64 a few years ago and from the start I never had any issues with it. It felt just fine from the start.

>> No.3404572

>>3404518
The only people who "hated" it were salty PS owners who couldn't publicly admit that the N64 pad was better than theirs.

Then when Sony shamelessly ripped it off and called it "Dual Shock", those same people just quietly breathed a sigh of relief (that they at least something comparable at last) but had to continue with the pretence to save face.

>> No.3404575

>>3404572
Oh, and the fact that it was so ostensibly different just gave them the convenient ammo to attack it.

>> No.3404576

I don't. I feel those who hated it did it because they didn't try it. It looks weird, so they made their own minds already. Same shit with the Gamecube controller.

>> No.3404579

>>3404518
I used to love this controller when I was kid, but whenever I pick one up now it feels funky.

>Are your hands too big or what?
Playing with adult sized hands might be the reason.

>> No.3404593

>>3404518
I don't like it as much as others cause of the three handles and that the middle one makes you have to hold it lopsided and uncomfortably.

>> No.3404613
File: 140 KB, 1093x476, wrong and right.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3404613

I just cant believe how you guys cant notice the fatal flaws of that controller

>> No.3404615

>>3404572
>The only people who "hated" it were salty PS owners who couldn't publicly admit that the N64 pad was better than theirs.
Right. It was so much better that Nintendo gave up and just went with the Dualshock format.

>> No.3404625

>>3404613
That way you couldn't press the Z button.

The whole reason why they put analog in the middle was because nobody had a clue as to where to put analog sticks on a pad in 1995, so they put it in the middle. That way you had your traditional SNES layout on the sides, and an analog with a trigger in the middle.

Putting the analogs below the d-pad so you can use it with your thumb, and having two triggers on both sides, was an evolution of this early style.

As for whether the analog or the d-pad should be on top or not, that one is a 50-50 toss-up depending on what the user is more used to.

>> No.3404630

>>3404613
>Fighting games
Because the N64 was known for it's pletharoa of high quality fighting games

Also the second one doesn't change anything at all, since some games use the d-pad.

The reasonable thing would be to move the analog stick closer to the left side, and remove the middle grip.

Huh, it's almost like there are controllers that did that....

>> No.3404636

>>3404625
>That way you couldn't press the Z button.
But L would simply assume the role of Z. Like it did with any game tha used the D-pad primarily anyway.

>> No.3404638

>>3404625

thats the whole point. The Z button shouldnt even exist. Why Nintendo went full retard and said "Hey, everyone loves the SNES controller, lets make a total different new one". Sony did it right and improved the SNES one adding more shoulder buttons, making parallel analog sticks in the second model, and keeping the diamond layout of the action buttons.

>> No.3404642

>>3404630

or maybe no one developed fighting games for the N64 because the controller layout was absolutely retarded.

I agree with that too. The GC controller should have been the N64 one.

>> No.3404651

>>3404642
>or maybe no one developed fighting games for the N64 because the controller layout was absolutely retarded.
It was just that all the good fighting game makers had aligned themselves with Sony.

>> No.3404656

>>3404642
The PS1 controller should've been the N64 controller.

All Sony did was take a SNES controller, added some handles for improved ergonomics, and added two shoulder buttons.

Sony took the next logical leap, Nintendo went full retard.

Even the GC controller, Nintendo stubbornly refuses to just do something simple and had absolute awful shoulder buttons and face buttons.

>> No.3404672

I hate how the front of the controller looks like a dick, maybe they were going for a space ship or something, but it's shaped like dick and balls.

>> No.3404674

The NES controller should have 1 more face button
The N64 controller should have both d-pad and analog stick on the left side
The GC controller should have a left bumper and select button for ports

Don't even pretend this isn't true.

>> No.3404679
File: 272 KB, 1200x900, MK_Trilogy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3404679

>>3404651
>It was just that all the good fighting game makers had aligned themselves with Sony.
Tell that to basically the only reason I didn't sell my N64. Cue the salty N64 defenders sperging out because I didn't care much for babby's first console.

And before you remind me that the Playstation also had that title, let me remind you that the Playstation version's load times were horrible.

>> No.3404680

I hold my hands symmetrically and stretch my thumb for the analogue stick. I've always done it this way, except for my unproductive attempts at doing it the supposed "correct" way. I still actually like the pad, but your fix would be perfect... though maybe put the analogue stick not so high, put it down a little.

>> No.3404681

>>3404656
I think the GC pad is brilliant. For starters, the PS pad handles weren't that ergonomic at all. The GC ones were the actual shape of the inside of your clasped hand - Sony just used a shape that was more geometrically appealing (basically a skewed cone).

Apart from Z, the shoulder buttons were great. The springy analogue nature of them, along with the final click was very intuitive. They felt nice to hold too.

The face buttons were a bit odd but it wasn't a bad design.

And one final small thing: the squishy action on the Start button was glorious.

>> No.3404687

because it's ugly, inconvenient, and may damage your hand when playing mario party

>> No.3404690
File: 47 KB, 400x323, 1468772839763.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3404690

>>3404674
>The NES controller should have 1 more face button
Why...?

>> No.3404691

>>3404679
MK Trilogy seems like such a tragic story, there were practically no definitive versions of it.

>> No.3404696

>>3404679

But mortal Kombat in the N64 wasnt bad, but wasnt anything special also. Meanwhile PS had Tekken 3, Rival Schools, Bloody Roar, a Kof98 port, and a bunch of better fighting games.

>> No.3404697

>>3404690
You really believe this never limited any game design? Just 2 action buttons?

>> No.3404701

>>3404518

Someone started the "for aliums XDD" meme someday and it spread.
As everybody who experienced the N64 era can tell NOBODY back then talked about the controller being for people with three arms or How difficult it was to use because of the three prongs etc.
And in my opinion it's still one of the best designed controllers ever made, especially its backside, it fits the hand so perfectly with its smooth curves that it just feels so natural to hold it and doesn't cramp it even after hours. The only thing was the stick, and that could have been fixed with a bit of pre- greasing.

>> No.3404704

>>3404690

because in many games special attacks required a dpad+action button to perform something. Prime example is Castlevania, which was a pain in the ass trying to use a special attack on ladders.

>> No.3404713
File: 12 KB, 227x224, 1368566455703.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3404713

>>3404704
>Castlevania
>ladders
>Pressing up+A is hard

>> No.3404724

>>3404697
Not really. Games were simpler then and controllers didn't need to be basically a Bop-It to keep kids' attention because that generation wasn't loaded with assburgers.

>> No.3404735

>>3404613
hand position expert here, this image and you are wrong.
the N64 controller's greatest strength is the perfect spacing between the center/right stick leading to the most comfortable arm position of any controller ever produced.

>> No.3404739

>>3404724
>Games were simpler then

Hardly, there are many games on the NES with obtuse input methods because they were limited by the buttons on the controller.

>> No.3404747

>>3404518
>Post a stick mod as Example

Revisionist!

>> No.3404760

>>3404696
>Many of those ports SUCKD!!!!!

>> No.3404771

>>3404739
There are many, yes, but not enough to make up more than a small fraction of the NES' library. And let's face it, bad control schemes weren't the only design flaws those games had. If you just cherry-pick games that suck, you can use them to half-ass any negative point about the NES.

>> No.3404783

>>3404572
Okay, first of all, there was a Sony dual analog controller before the dual shock. And if anything, they ripped off the Saturn 3D controller's analog stick, not the N64's.

>> No.3404796

>>3404783
>Saturn 3D controller
But wasn't that just Sega's response to the N64 pad anyway?

>> No.3404802

>>3404796
They came out around the same time.
And the saturn 3d pad absolutely blows the shitty as n64 controller out of the water.

>> No.3404813

>>3404735

thats why no one ever used that design ever again, and most actual controllers are a evolution of the NES/SNES/PS1 controllers. You dumbshit.

>> No.3404942

Because they never played Sin and Punishment

>> No.3405058
File: 85 KB, 600x449, 5qddr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3405058

>>3404518
because its a piece of fucking shit???

>> No.3405071

>>3405058

That I'll concede, the quality of the stick itself is shit. I have heard the japanese controllers are better built, not sure because I don't own any jp controller.
The stick is not bad per se, it's actually one of the best analogue sticks I have tried, if not the best in terms of precision. But the quality is shit and it'll become loose over time, in fact good luck finding a new one that doesn't have the stick loose. Repairing it by adding a Gamecube stick is not a solution because GC sticks has more deadzones, it has to be the exact same replacement.

But everything else about the controller is fine faggots, ergonomic as fuck, great 6 face button layout, good SNES d-pad (it's only stiff because you never used it fag, try using it more with games that utilize it and you'll see how it becomes smoother and more flexible). Z button was genius, lets you play some games with both positions, your index finger will always be on the Z button no matter what, so you'll only need the Z button and either L/R on your index.

>> No.3405102

>>3404518
It's just a bunch of sperglords who hate on Nintendo just to be edgy. I never had any problems with the N64 controller with any game, even when it first came out. I thought it was very comfy.

>> No.3405108
File: 1.58 MB, 2160x2500, Sega-Saturn-JP-3D-Pad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3405108

>>3404518
HEY BILLY MAYS HERE WITH THE BEST ANALOG YOU'LL EVER HAVE

>> No.3405116
File: 73 KB, 590x604, 252.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3405116

>>3404518
Opinions time.

>It has 3 handles! What a retarded design! XD
Your right hand goes on the right handle.
Your left goes on either the left or middle handle, depending on whether you want to main the D-pad or the joystick. They even have their own index finder buttons, L and Z.

So having 3 handles isn't really bad. In fact I think it's good.

>the analog stick wears down
This fucking blows.
Especially because 3rd party controllers suck total ass for some reason. How hard is it to manufacture an OK joystick without giant ass fucking deadzones in the center and at the edge? How hard is it to just take a working joystick and slap it on to an N64 controller mold? Why is it so difficult?
I have never seen any controllers so bad as modern 3rd party N64 controllers. Never.

So they blow because of their poor longevity.
Design wise they're cool imo.

>> No.3405124

>>3404518
It was actually pretty ergonomic and functional, but only if you held it diagonally and ignored the left handle (D pad and left trigger). It forced sony to update their pathetic first attempt at a controller with the superior dual shock. The 2nd Xbox controller hit the sweet spot for design, and subsequent Xbox controllers made only slight modifications, though I'd argue the Gamecube controller was better than the Dual Shock because it, like the Xbox controller, put the left analog stick "up high" and the right "down low". Doesn't seem like much, but if you ever needed to go left on the right stick and right on the left stick on a Dual Shock at the same time, it was too tight.

>> No.3405128

>>3405071
>>3405058
What is the best solution for N64 controllers?
>just buy a shitty chinese 3rd party :D
no

>spend $75 on a Hori, or $30 on a GCN to N64 adapter
ugh


whyyyeee

>> No.3405131

>>3404518
Had it since day one and I've never liked it. Having to take a hand 100% off the controller for any reason should not be a thing. Granted, not too many games needed you to swap which handles you held, but I'll ask you to refer to my previous sentence. My main issue is with the left handle / d-pad / L button. Fuck 'em.

It could've been worse, but as the GameCube has shown, it could be leaps and bounds better.

Before I get asked "What games?" I'll answer "Most FPS". Duke Nukem 64 jumps to mind.

>> No.3405135
File: 62 KB, 568x600, Saturn_Original_Model2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3405135

>>3404613

The small buttons aren't a problem for fighting games at all. I never had any problem with the small XYZ buttons on the Saturn pad, and sure never had any problem with the C buttons either. As long as your thumb isn't a sausage I don't think they're a problem.

As for the "d-pad is useful for menus"; no, because that'd mean you have to constantly switch your left hand between handles.

N64 controller is made to be held in 3 different positions: Left (left hand on d-pad, right hand on stick), Right (left hand on stick, right hand on buttons) and classic position which is left hand on d-pad and right on buttons.

>> No.3405137

It's not that hard to use. People are just idiots.

>> No.3405168

>>3404518
While PS1 controller was shit, its shape was the basis for most of the game controllers out there. Yon won't see any controlled shaped like that N64 abomination anywhere.
That third handle has any sense if one had a prensile cock and used it to play games.

>> No.3405178

>>3405168

Actually, the N64 made Sony change the design of their controller and add these 2 black bull eggsacks.

>> No.3405193

>>3404518
My hands aren't big per se, but I have long fingers and I get cramped easily with pads designed for kid hands. While I didn't find the 64 controlled bad on short bursts, after one or two hours I'd get very uncomfortable.

>> No.3405196

>>3404735
>hand position expert here

>> No.3405216

>>3404579

Is it just men's hands? I'm a woman and it feels fine for me. I don't know if my hands are small or what.

>> No.3405224

>>3404638
t. Sony fanboy

>> No.3405227

>>3405216

My guess is lard tards couldn't get their sausage fingers around the controller properly. Hence why GC controller had bigger buttons and more shitty analog stick, since the lard tards thumbs would always slip off due to constant sweating.

>> No.3405243

>>3404613
>>3404625
>>3404638

The Hori Mini has 2 z-buttons. One next to each of the shoulder buttons.

It has a superior position for 90% of the library.

I think Nintendo's design idea was that you could use the controller 2 ways, but it never came to fruition because only a handful of games utilized the D-pad.

So in retrospect, the controller's design was terrible. I can understand what they were thinking, and it wasn't a terrible idea, but it was misguided.

Hori-Mini is perfect for most games, but isn't as nice fort he few that utilize the D-pad.

>> No.3405317

>>3404656

The original PS1 controller sucked. The Dualshock was an improvement by far

>> No.3405325

i love the n64 but dislike the controller cause when you use the analog stick it makes my hands too close together which is uncomfertable. i have normal size hands.

>> No.3405340

>>3404518
That big analogue stick worked very well for F-zero X. So I like the controller since I literally just use my n64 to play F-zero X.

>> No.3405348

>>3404518
retards thought the middle handle was for show and stretched their fingers to reach the stick and the z button
i wish i was memeing you, but i'm not

>> No.3405382

>>3405325
I find it comfortable, and I have average-sized hands as well. It's a shame the D-pad and the stick couldn't be used without changing grip, though.

>> No.3405383
File: 75 KB, 1134x1104, CncFcEeWcAAJXvv.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3405383

>>3404518
I don't like it because the bowl wears out on the analog stick after a relatively small amount of use compared to others, and it's expensive to get a controller that's in good shape.

This has caused a flood of garbage quality 3rd party controllers, and also the gamecube style replacement sticks without a bowl that are complete garbage with no consideration made for the stick's position mapping properly to the game input.

I want to get one of the steel sticks, those are supposedly a suitable replacement, but it's like a hobby project and I guess you can't buy them.

>> No.3405391
File: 71 KB, 1280x853, 1470321474271.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3405391

ITT: Nintoddlers trying to rewrite history.

The N64's controller OBJECTIVELY sucks. Get over it.

>> No.3405410

>>3404518
Things you don't do symmetrical:

- Rowing a boat with one paddle.
- Firing an Arrow with a bow.
- Boxing (one first for defense)

I just proved the N64 Controller is the best controller of all time, because it simulates real life the best.

>> No.3405413

>>3405410
*fist

>> No.3405542

>>3405410
I love the N64 controller but this is the dumbest thing Ive ever read on this website

>> No.3405604

>>3405391
Not really, these posts are pretty objective and unbiased:
>>3405135
>>3405124
>>3405116
>>3405071

the N64 controller did objectively many good things, but has an objectively bad quality stick build.

>> No.3405664

>>3405135

thats the point, no game should have used the dpad if you have a stick in the controller! Nintendo tried to please both stick and dpad devs to make their games, and they both ended with a shitty monster in their hands. Pick A or B, but not both. Another thing that the dualshock did it better because you can switch between the sticks and the dpad with the analog button.

>> No.3405671

>>3404796
It came out two weeks later. There's no way they designed, tested, and produced a controller in that short of a time span. It was also designed specifically to be played with Nights, which was already in development long before the N64 came out.

Also, the Saturn controller had analog triggers as well as an analog stick. This is something neither of the other two companies thought of.

>> No.3405905

>>3405671
>It came out two weeks later. There's no way they designed, tested, and produced a controller in that short of a time span. It was also designed specifically to be played with Nights, which was already in development long before the N64 came out.

That's a dumb argument. You should be comparing when the N64 controller was revealed to when Nights was revealed to use the 3D pad.

>> No.3405925

>>3405383
Is there any place I could possibly find this?

>> No.3405961

>>3405905
The N64 came out on June 23, Nights (with the controller) came out July 5th. That's only twelve days.

>> No.3405965

The joysticks are pretty bad (always broke when playing Mario Party) and most games didn't even utilize all of the controls, because there are so many buttons.

>> No.3405974

>>3405905
The controllers were released so close together that there's really no way of knowing for sure which one was developed first. I'm thinking that both companies realized that analog control was the way to go, and developed their own controllers simultaneously.

It's also worth noting that several Saturn games that were released before the Saturn 3D pad came out supported its analog feature. So I'm thinking Sega already had analog control in mind for a while before releasing the controller itself.

>> No.3406189

>>3404572
I actually thought the 64 controller was rather meh as a kid, and the PSX wasn't that much better (got better with each generatiom though).

Main flaw is really the stick, Nintendo didn't lube it for the US or EU market, so it ground itself to death over time. Also the ridged circular surface was murder on my thumbs after enough time.

>> No.3406220

>>3404672
You must have a funny looking dick.

>> No.3406281

>>3405128
$75 isn't really that much, I spent more than that on furniture for my AR.

>>3405317
The layout and shape is pretty fundamentally sound, though I don't feel the sticks became really good until the PS3 (also I'd like for the handles to be larger)

>> No.3406282

>>3406281
$75 isn't that much.

But if you want 4 controllers?
And you want to maybe get some controllers for other people as a gift?

That shit starts adding up.

Why does Hori have to charge $75?
what controller costs that much

>> No.3406287

>$1.36
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131065157009?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

>> No.3406290

>>3406281
Oh yeah, I absolutely hate the L2 and R2 buttons on the DS3/Sixaxis, they're hinged and there's no break on them at all, you can't tell when they're fully pressed, just push them until they can't go further, this is especially heinous in games where the shoot button is on R2 and you're not allowed to rebind it, I get that the idea is to have a "trigger", but the L2/R2 buttons are so fucking terrible as triggers.

The DS1 and DS2 didn't have this fucking terrible hinged thing going, I miss that.

>> No.3406292

>>3406282
I suppose it does, but I'm not really a multiplayer guy so I guess that didn't occur to me.

>> No.3406293

>>3406287
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0V7-006J-00022&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Video+Game+Consoles+-+Accessories-_-0V7-006J-00022&gclid=CMaN-KW6qs4CFZCKaQodligIew&gclsrc=aw.ds

http://www.dkoldies.com/new-replacement-thumbstick-nintendo-64-n64/?gclid=CPm20aa6qs4CFQEOaQodBygApg

So someone tell me why these aren't worth it

>> No.3406635

>>3404518
You know for a board that throws a fucking tantrum at asymmetrical ergonomics, this controller gets some pretty wild fucking praise.

>> No.3406640
File: 39 KB, 850x690, vbc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3406640

>>3406635

It is pretty symmetrical though, the C buttons act as a d-pad as well, which is why some games let you decide whether you want to play with the left or right position.

>> No.3407468

>>3406640
My god that thing is hidious.

>> No.3407525

>>3404518
Because these people suck at goldeneye 007 and perfect dark.

>> No.3407675

>>3406281

Playing most PS1 games with a gamepad isn't very convenient imho. Many 3D games like Spyro work better with an analog stick

>> No.3407775

>>3407468
The Waluigi of N64-pads.

>> No.3407776

>>3407775
>N64

Nintendo ofc

>> No.3407892

The stick wearing out is my only problem with the controller. Shit sucks.

>> No.3408595
File: 245 KB, 600x756, Vb5725fa16b92c4a2f937c7fc565b41681.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3408595

>>3407468

One of the most ergonomic and symmetrical controllers ever, though.

>> No.3409162

>>3404613
This wasn't true back in the day. You'd never use the joystick for fighting games. It was for 3d movement only.

>> No.3409225

>>3407675
Works for Symphony, but using it for movement in general is a little rough, since it's a bit of a rough pad.

I think it works alright as a weapon/inventory select in modern titles.

>> No.3409264
File: 49 KB, 469x297, stick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3409264

If your stick is fucked up, and you have some earbuds laying around you can fix it really easily.

Cut a small piece off the silicone rubber earbud cover, and put it on the bottom part of the stick like in the picture. It'll tighten the stick up perfectly, and it'll snap back to center like new. No grease, no tape. Super easy fix.

>> No.3409274

>>3409264
Got a video?

>> No.3409285
File: 64 KB, 485x461, hori-n64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3409285

>using the stock controller
>not using a hori pad instead

plebs

>> No.3409291

>>3409264
Details?

>> No.3409310
File: 2.20 MB, 1800x1400, GameCube_controller.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
3409310

>>3406640

Big bro, Big Bro!

>> No.3409324

Can't you repair the N64 stick manually?

Or get a GCN N64 controller adapter?

>> No.3409342

>>3409274
I don't, but was thinking of making one.

>>3409291
It's pretty simple, just take the controller apart, and disassemble the joystick housing. Cut a piece of the earbud cover off, and fit it around the part of the stick pointed to in the picture. That's all there is to it. Then put it all back together.

I got the idea after watching this video. It's more or less the same idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_QMtXufHY

>> No.3409378

>>3405108
That is not a 3ds "joystick"

>> No.3409405

>>3409378

Nah, the PSP's is better. The 3ds one is okay, but doesn't have enough tension and is too slippery.

I'm going to try to epoxy some sandpaper for grip, but I can't really think of a way to add tension without disassembling the joystick assembly and using some impossible-to-source tighter springs

>> No.3409420

>>3409342
What's your youtube channel? I'll subscribe

>> No.3412271

I haven't picked up N64 controller in a while, but I remember it feeling pretty natural when I first did.

>> No.3412364

>>3404518
>Are your hands too big or what?
It's not even this. I have fucking HUGE hands, and the controller is fine.

>>3404572
>>3404575
I was going to make an attempt to explain why people feel such vitriol against it, but this sums it up nicely. Thanks anon.

>> No.3413152

>>3412364
>I have fucking HUGE hands, and the controller is fine.
Same with me. My hands are pretty big.

>>
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