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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 298 KB, 481x340, Kdl3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3400890 No.3400890 [Reply] [Original]

>NES: Kirby's Adventure

>Genesis/MegaDrive: Sonic 3D Blast (Traveler Tales actually did a great job here. Sonic and enemies all even have shadows shaped like themselves)

>SNES: Pic-related (it looks like a game that would normally be only be able to be done on the PS1/N64/Saturn, it has a beautiful artstyle and its graphics are still beautiful to this day. It was a late 1997 game for the SNES/SFC so HAL put a lot into it).

N64: Conker's Bad Fur Day (it used the largest cartridge utilized for the N64).

PS1: Vagrant Story

DC: Shenmue II (takes what Shenmue built and improves on it, showed that the Dreamcast could have competed with the PS2 graphically, though disc space would have been a likely handicap as had it been for the N64 in terms of graphics).

Your opinions on this?

>> No.3400904

NES: Sunsoft games
Megadrive: Treasure games
Super NES: Natsume games
PC Engine: Rondo of Blood

>> No.3400959

Donkey Kong Land on the Game Boy, actually.
>Based on the groundbreaking CGI-rendered SNES hit Donkey Kong Country, this highly enjoyable platformer is arguably the title that pushed the original Game Boy to its absolute limits, and Machacek is proud of what he achieved. “I deliberately sat down and spent three weeks doing nothing but engine work to get it to a point that it could handle anything we threw at it,” he remembers. “At that time many games were downloading about 6-8 characters a frame to the video bank and Donkey Kong Land needed much more than that with all of the rendered artwork it had to drive. I do know that my lead artist got fed up of waiting for me to finish this work! It was techy stuff that was invisible to him, and you have to understand that three weeks to write an engine seemed like an age when we had put out the Game Boy version of WWF SuperStars in three months flat – including testing – a couple of years earlier. But the Donkey Kong Land engine was able to shift 24 characters a frame by the end, and suddenly we were able to drive a lot of rendered artwork. I don’t think anyone complained after that, especially when it sold four million units!”
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2010/03/feature_the_making_of_the_nintendo_game_boy

Obelix, Smurfs' Nightmare, Star Hawk and Hammerin Harry, also on the Game Boy.
https://youtu.be/FoG-JKPEK7E?t=3m32s

>>3400890
Are these games just got looking or can you actually proof that they pushed anything? For all I care we can turn this into a "best looking games on x console" thread.

>> No.3400978

>>3400959
Kirby's Adventure and Conker's BFD certainly pushed the consoles. Yu Suzuki also said that Shenmue II used most of the Dreamcast's power.

>> No.3401001

SNES - Winter Gold. This game is a fucking miracle in terms of graphics and music:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pr909aVsNo

Mega Drive: Is a very hard choice between Treasure's games, Ristar, Rocket Knight Adventures and Pulseman. They are amazing.

>> No.3401109

>>3401001
Its weird how Nintendo published Winter Gold in Europe, yet that game was never released outside there despite being one of the few titles to use the Super FX2 chip.

>> No.3401184

DL3 didn't push anything.

>> No.3401189

>>3401001
Wow haven't seen this before. Looks like 32-bit console for sure!

>> No.3401208

>>3400904
>Natsume games

Wild guns was certainly impressive.

>> No.3401209

>>3401109
>>3401109
It's a theory, but, maybe, for the same reason that Starfox 2 wasn't officially released (Focus on the N64). Winter Gold was a really late title for the SNES and Mario 64's launch happened 4 months before it.

>> No.3401214

>>3401001
>SNES - Winter Gold.
Haha cool, the Spaceballs crew made a SNES game.

>> No.3401227

GameBoy Color: Pokemon Crystal
N64: Pokemon Stadium 2

>> No.3401247

Can you really consider it pushing a console to its limits if the "feat" is accomplished via special on-board chips for each game?

>> No.3401584
File: 123 KB, 592x518, tmp_30991-images(98)542556234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3401584

Little Samson is really impressive for a Nes game.

>> No.3401697

>>3401184
hi resolution mode

>> No.3401710

On SNES: Yoshi's Island. That game is a tech demo for other devs showing everything the console can do.

>> No.3401742
File: 156 KB, 640x841, ZenkiFX.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3401742

>Sapphire - PCECD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_uF0463lAM
>Zenki - PCFX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7AovzPxqoI

>> No.3401763

>>3401184
Get fucked, man.
>>3401697
Actually, it was pseudo-hi resolution mode, 512 x 224. Still impressive, considering no lag.
Not only that, but also palette changing mid-scanline. Fire up a debugger, open the palette viewer and go to level 1. Start chipping away 8x8 tiles and realize that they contain colors not in the palette viewer.

>> No.3402002

pretty much everything about Perfect Dark

>> No.3402394

>>3402002
I thought Conker's BFD was graphically more impressive than Perfect Dark. What did Perfect Dark do that made it a stand out?

>> No.3402409

>>3401109
N64 had come out about two months prior ( N64 in September, WG in November ).

>> No.3402414

>>3402409
We still got two more Nintendo published games in North America after the Nintendo 64's release (DKC3 in late November that year, and Kirby's Dream Land 3 in November 1997).

I guess NOA did not see the need to bring over the 3D Sports game on a last gen console, while DKC3 and KDL3 were both from established franchises.

>> No.3402437
File: 2.21 MB, 640x360, perfect dark 4.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3402437

>>3402394
Not that guy, and yeah I do agree CBFD was technically more advanced, but Perfect Dark does quite a lot of good things too.

It's exquisitely textured, with shitloads of attention to detail (e.g. lots of reflection maps, etc). Also the AI in the single player is surprisingly clever at times and full of reactions.

>> No.3402438

I wish there were more games like this that weren't released late into the consoles lifespan. Games like Kirby's Adventure 3 were late releases. It's stil neat but it makes sense they'd push the limits due to all the experience the devs have with the console

>> No.3402583

>>3400890
3D Blast pushed jack shit.

>> No.3402603

>>3401710
>the console
the super fx chip, you mean

>> No.3402729

>>3401742
That Zenki game look gorgeous.

Is there any PSP PC- Engine emulator that supports super FX?

>> No.3402731

>>3402603
Super FX is but a coprocessor, it can't magically give you more VRAM space or colors.
With that analogy, Castlevania 3 doesn't have anything about the NES to show, but the MMC5 mapper.

>> No.3402745

>>3402729
Im not sure how well it runs but there is mednafen for psp.

>> No.3402763

>>3402729
PC-Engine != PCFX

>> No.3402821
File: 1.41 MB, 1536x2048, IMG_0710.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3402821

Willow, Recca, and Kickmaster on NES

Though it's graphically unimpressive, F-Zero X still pushes the N64 for a clean 60fps with no slow down and 30 on screen racers at once. Makes for seamless gameplay.

>> No.3402894

>>3400890

SMW2:YI looked way better than Kirby's Dream Land 3. I'd say KSS looks better, too.

>> No.3402901

>>3400890
..dun dun, dunn dunn dunnnnn .... dun dun dunn dun, dun dun dunnnnnn.... nanananananaah drop it like it's hot, drop it like it'hot...

>> No.3402912

>>3402894
Yeah, I always thought Kirby Super Star looked a lot better. Never cared much for the style in Kirby's Dream Land 3.

>> No.3402965
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3402965

>>3402894
>>3402912
>SMW2:YI looked way better than Kirby's Dream Land 3
No it doesn't. Kirby's Dream Land 3 beats YI at its own game a thousand times over.
>KSS looks better, too
Matter of preference. If you like bigger more detailed Sonic the Hedgehog style sprites then yeah, you'll like it more.

>> No.3402996

>>3402965
I like all three in their own ways, but the only truly comparable ones are KDL3 vs YI. And in that case I think KDL3 wins.
YI has higher contrast and more vibrant colours but I think KDL3 holds its art direction together better.

>> No.3403016

Whoever believes KDL3 is the best looking game on the SNES needs to get their eyes checked, period. It would probably be in the lower half of the top 10, if that.

>> No.3403037

>>3403016
Photo-realism does not equal best looking.

It has a more beautiful artstyle than nearly all other games from that era, with only Yoshi's Island competing with it (a game released nearly two years before with Nintendo's top team behind it).

Superstar looks nice sure, but it does not do much interesting graphically.

>> No.3403045

>>3403037
Actually KDL3 was released nearly THREE years after Yoshi's Island (going by the Japanese release of Yoshi's Island).

>> No.3403056
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3403056

>>3403037
I agree with everything but
>Superstar looks nice sure, but it does not do much interesting graphically.
just isn't giving that game enough credit. It has really beautiful backgrounds, and incredibly comical and expressive character animation like you'd see from Loony Tunes. DL3 looks better imo, but Super Star is one of the more interesting looking SNES games too.

>> No.3403079

>DL3
>pushing anything
It's the worst retro Kirby.

>> No.3403086

>>3403079
Nawh.

Adventure > Dream Land 2 > Super Star > Dream Land 3 > Amazing Mirror > Dream Land > Crystal Shards

>> No.3403091

>>3403079
>>3403086
dream land 3 is a great game, guys. block ball is probably the worst and even that's fine.
>amazing mirror
>retro

>> No.3403101

>>3403091
I thought GBA was implicitly retro now after mods stopped deleting posts relating to it.

>> No.3403106

>>3403101
No more than gamecube or xbox, sorry.

>> No.3403118
File: 9 KB, 460x226, adoshowsdrawing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3403118

>>3403016
>>3403079
why are you so buttmad?

>> No.3403124
File: 97 KB, 640x480, Lightning_Force_U_c067.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3403124

Lightning force has to be near the top for the Genesis

>> No.3403130

>>3403106
That's silly. GBA is more retro than say, Dreamcast or N64.

>> No.3403132

>>3403124
Check out Ranger X if you want your mind to get blown.

>> No.3403148

>>3403130
DS is on par graphically with the PS1/Saturn/N64, yet few would call it retro.

Personally, I see the GBA/GCN/Xbox/PS2 are retro now. Heck, I even consider the DS/Wii/PSP as retro. The HD twins despite being released a decade ago and around the same time as the the previous three mentioned are not, since they pretty much just lower res versions of current gen games (cross gen is still a thing three years into the PS4/Xbone's life).

>>3403118
Probably one of those people that hates Dream Land 3 for being "slow". Dream Land 3 was by far the best of the Dark Matter Trilogy. I don't understand why people gush over 64 (which has like only 20 or so levels), yet bash Dream Land 3 when they basically have the same game play (only Dream Land 3's ability combo system is done with animal partners).

>> No.3403153

>>3403130
>>3403148
No point in allowing those here, you can talk about them on /v/ and you'd have a decent sized thread. on /vr/ you can have big threads about less known stuff like Phantasy Star or something, why drown that out with stuff that already gets plenty of attention on /v/?

>> No.3403187

>>3400890
>DC
Not retro

>> No.3403194

>>3403187
>dreamcast not retro
Except the goddamn sticky
>With the release of the 8th generation of consoles, the Sega Dreamcast will now be considered "retro"

>> No.3403213
File: 103 KB, 431x692, vr_rules.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3403213

>>3403194
Dreamcast is sixth gen. If you read the rules pages, sixth gen is forbidden here.

>> No.3403354

>>3403213
Ok, but the sticky clearly says

>With the release of the 8th generation of consoles, the Sega Dreamcast will now be considered "retro", though the remainder of the sixth generation (Xbox, PS2, GameCube) will not.

>> No.3403361

>>3403354
4chan.org/rules overrides the sticky, sorry.

>> No.3403367

>>3403153
Nah, 15 year old hardware is pretty retro, mods are just fags, and if you cared about console wall bullshit you'd do your part to stamp out SNES/Genesis wars threads, but you don't because you're happier that this place is almost like Groundhog Day by being nostalgic about the same shit over and over again.

>> No.3403371

>>3403361
>>3403187
Go report any discussion of DC threads then you newfag nigger and see what happens.

>> No.3403373

>>3403367
nope, sorry.

>> No.3403375

>>3403373
Well, you're wrong, and no one cares what you think.

>> No.3403376

>>3400890
NES: Recca

SNES: Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, Star Fox, Donkey Kong Country series

Genesis: Treasure games

Gameboy: X

>> No.3403382

>>3403375
still no
there are a million games released before 2000 you could discuss here, five entire generations of consoles and decades worth of arcade and PC games. come here when you want to discuss any of them, otherwise go to /v/, you'll be fine there and there's nothing wrong with that. don't just bitch and moan that you can't have wii threads, it's pointless and annoying.

>> No.3403386

>>3403148
Retro isn't determined by hardware specs, but the date it was released.

The 3DS outputs 240p like the NES, Atari, Fairchild, Genesis, etc. but is new as fuck and far from retro.

>> No.3403392

>>3403382
>there are a million games released before 2000 you could discuss here, five entire generations of consoles and decades worth of arcade and PC games.

Yeah, and just like on /v/ if it's especially obscure it'll get pushed back and until the thread dies. And at best it'll be self-contained for weeks and maybe months if doesn't get pushed off.

>it's pointless and annoying
And your endless loop of 16 bit console war threads really brings new fodder for discussion.

>> No.3403397

Famicom/NES: Akumajou Densetsu, Mario 3
SNES: Yoshi's Island (uses SuperFX but still)
PS1: MGS1
N64: OOT

Not retro but GTA: San Andreas on PS2 pushed its hardware perhaps more than any commercially released game on any other system.

>> No.3403401

>>3403392
i've never made a 16 bit console war thread nor have i posted in one, now shut up.

>> No.3403405

>>3403401
Well it's good to know you've been on this board for one day. Come for retro vidya, stay for autistic shitposting from 35 year olds who staunchly defend the Genesis sound-chip against the 36 year Nintoddlers bragging about how the SNES won the 16 bit console war.

>> No.3403417

>>3403405
i've been here since it opened. i'm capable of not going into threads that don't look interesting to me. please get out of my thread.

>> No.3403420

>>3403417
>i've been here since it opened. i'm capable of not going into threads that don't look interesting to me.
Me too. I like that excuse anyone can pull for how long they've been posting on a board.

>please get out of my thread.
Nope.

>> No.3403430

>>3403420
it's almost as if it's an irrelevant point to even bring up that only serves to give you a false and fleeting sense of superiority over someone, sticking to a narrative you yourself made up.

>> No.3403460

When's nuMoot going to open up /og/ - Old Games for the games that aren't retro (/vr/) or current fotm (/v/)?

>> No.3403464
File: 133 KB, 776x678, 3d_goldface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3403464

>sixth-gen faggots think allowing PS2/GCN/Xbox on /vr/ will cure /vr/'s console war epidemic

Lol, keep dreaming, kiddos.

Just remember, you're also part of the problem for shitposting /vr/ because you can't get your way.

>> No.3403486
File: 22 KB, 300x225, nec pc fx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3403486

>>3402763
Didn't expected another NEC console, did you know that NEC used to make supercomputers?

>>3402745
Mednafen emulates PC-FX but I can't find the psp version anywhere, someone has a link?

It probably doesn't work, but it doesn't hurt to try.

>> No.3403547

>>3402002
Absolutely! I actually fired up perfect dark today for the first time ever and couldn't believe that it was an n64 release. It looks incredible and holds up very well.

>> No.3403670

>>3402731
a coprocessor can be arbitrarily capable. It may not be able to add more VRAM (though as the MMC5 shows, it kind of can), but it can completely replace the VRAM, if desired. Look at how Super FX 3D games work. You can put some high end 3D accelerator inside the cart, if you're crazy, as long as you add logic to map the output to the tile and palette limits of the SNES.

Games using the MMC5 are indeed not exactly representative of what the NES does, as they massively enhance its capabilities, and indeed "add VRAM" (more tiles per screen) and "colors" (gets rid of a palette limit). Good showcases of what an NES with an MMC5 can do, but that's a different story altogether

>> No.3403671

>>3402821
>seamless gameplay
buzzword bingo

>> No.3403741

>>3403486
https://github.com/RobertSzkutak/mednafenPSP
???

>> No.3403761

>>3402731
>Super FX is but a coprocessor
A coprocessor that does all of the heavy lifting because the SNES's processor cannot. Without the Super FX chip, Yoshi's Island is not Yoshi's Island.

Is it really pushing a system to its limits if you have to resort to using on-cart chips to do things the system itself cannot?

>> No.3403827

>>3403761
>Is it really pushing a system to its limits if you have to resort to using on-cart chips to do things the system itself cannot?
I guess games that have a Save function don't count either, then.

>> No.3403831

>>3403148
>Dream Land 3 for being "slow".
To be fair, KDL3 is the only Kirby game where exhaling the air bullet stops your horizontal momentum. I don't know if it's an intentional design choice, or a glitch, but still makes the flow of the game a bit uncomfortable, especially if you've played other Kirby games before.
There's a patch if you're an emu person though.

>> No.3403834
File: 60 KB, 399x459, ae7afdef5704a0868b6b636f5b3fa7ee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3403834

>>3403420

>complains about console war posts
>in posts that are designed to ignite a flame war

Don't think I didn't flea what you did there.

>> No.3403838

>>3403741
It doesn't come with the eboot.

Wich means that I have to make it from scratch.

Anyone wants to help?

For a PC-FX emulator for the PSP.

I'll try it first and if I can't make it, i'll take it to /g/.

>> No.3404008

>>3403827
>I guess games that have a Save function don't count either, then.

saving a game isn't part of its graphical capability dumbass

>> No.3404024

>>3403827
Save functions in retro carts use a button cell battery that in no way enhances the graphical or audio capabilities of the system. All the battery does is remove the need for implementing a password system, and password systems are not system-intensive.

>> No.3404025

>>3403761
yes, since it still relies on the console.

>> No.3404049

>>3404008
neither is SuperFX or SA-1

Please tell me how a SuperFX or SA-1 enhances the graphics? It's not like it introduces a new Mode or some shit.

>> No.3404053

>>3404049
>Please tell me how a SuperFX or SA-1 enhances the graphics?

it churns out relatively sophisticated matrix multiplied display lists converted into PPU tiles

>> No.3404061

>>3404053
all that could be pre-calculated tho

>> No.3404063

>>3404061
>all that could be pre-calculated tho

not if you want your polygons to be arbitrarily transformed in response to player input like in an actual fucking video game

>> No.3404108

>>3404063
still could
of course it would be retarded and expensive, but still possible

>> No.3404112

>>3404108
Crash Bandicoot actually did try something like that, but they only pre-rendered visibility, for each frame of every level. Crazy as shit but it freed up the CPU by a lot

>> No.3404135

>>3404024
To have a save function, the cart needs a SRAM chip.

>> No.3404374

>>3400890
>n64
Literally any game you put in

>> No.3404376

>>3403547
even with the very noticeable 20 fps?

>> No.3404378

>>3400890
Snes
>Gokujo Parodius

No mapper chips, and it looks like a Saturn game

>> No.3404431

>>3403464
You might as well change the rules since you have console war faggotry already

>> No.3404489

>>3400890
For SNES, Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean and Chrono Trigger.

>> No.3404497

>>3404489
why?

>> No.3404584

NES: Summer Carnival 92 Recca
Genesis: Red Zone or Ranger X
Saturn (2D): Cotton Boomerang
Saturn (3D): Burning Rangers

>> No.3404614

>>3404497
Star Ocean uses a special chip that compress large sprites (the same chip used in Street Fighter Alpha 2), Tales of Phantasia somehow managed to get some voice acting in (even a theme song). Don't know about Chrono Trigger

>> No.3404632

>>3404614
>uses a special chip
aaand discarded

>> No.3404664 [DELETED] 

No 6th gen?

PS2: Burnout Revenge (boy did that game look beautiful, also 60fps)

Original Xbox: Half Life 2 (who would have thought this game would run decently on an old p3?)

>> No.3404676 [DELETED] 

>>3404664
Doom 3 looks more impressive than HL2.

>> No.3404683 [DELETED] 

>>3404676
That's debatable. I have to agree with you that Doom 3 still looks fucking impressive on a Xbox

>> No.3404686

>>3400890
Kirby's Adventure doesn't look that good. Mediocre backrounds and small, poorly animated sprites. I could find better looking '80s NES games.

>> No.3404693

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj5cAdVo2A4

This is also an interesting video about the C64.
Especially if you look at how much later games differ from early games

>> No.3404712 [DELETED] 

>>3404664
>not retro

>> No.3404719 [DELETED] 

>>3404712
Retro enough for me.

>> No.3404728

>>3402821
For a console designed to display a ball ans 2 paddles, the dev team for willow were absolute madmen.

>> No.3404734

>>3404584
>Red Zone
No
>Ranger X
Yes

Shoutouts to Monster World IV.

>> No.3404740

>>3402821
that amiga monitor makes me wet

>> No.3404743 [DELETED] 

>>3404719
Not retro enough for this board, read the fucking sticky.

>> No.3404795

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP5MImvc_2c

>> No.3404812
File: 2.13 MB, 2000x1500, IMG_2225 - Resized.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3404812

>>3404740
Why thank you, it serves me well.

>> No.3405035

>>3403671
>descriptions are buzzwords
How else would you describe "seamless gameplay"? Unflinching 60fps in a racing game seems pretty seamless to me.

>> No.3405210

Will only post of what systems I've played.

snes: tales of phantasia
nes: legend of samson
pc engine: magical chase
pc engine cd: rondo of blood or gingu sapphire
mega drive: ranger x
master system: ninja gaiden or galaxy force
game boy: Daffy Duck fowl play
n64: conkers bad fur day
ps1: vagrant story or omega boost
3do: star fighter
colecovision: mr do's castle or gyruss
wonderswan: judgement silversword
vectrex: spike
dreamcast: soul calibur

>> No.3405449
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3405449

Shantae raped the GBC. So unfortunate it came out when it did, no one cared.

>> No.3405479
File: 6 KB, 33x36, shantaedance7-194757.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3405479

>>3405449
Good game.

>> No.3405531

>>3405449
Shantae even has a GBA exclusive palette and transformation. Now that's pushing a system to its limits.

>> No.3405546
File: 71 KB, 554x548, oh stop it.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3405546

>>3405479
>>3405531

>> No.3405553

Nes - Elite
Genesis - Red Zone
SNES - DOOM

>> No.3405554

Pier solar

>> No.3405569

>>3405554
I don't think the use of a CD for music in a cart game was done before. But otherwise, lolno. It chugs doing things the system should have no problems with.

>> No.3405602

>>3405449
Too bad the game is mediocre

>> No.3405618
File: 2.52 MB, 256x224, 1.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3405618

Toy Story on the SNES and Genesis looks pretty good. Most levels either have a psuedo-3D effect or tons of background layers, and there's a mid-game level in the style of Wolfenstein 3D. The title screen music on the Genesis version is entirely-sample based, while the SNES sounds clear and realistic overall:

https://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=IPr4V1c2VqA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B19vqG0DD1Q

>> No.3405694

>>3405035
what "seams" do you expect?

>> No.3405712
File: 7 KB, 512x448, Star_Fox_-_Gameplay.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3405712

>>3404049
>Please tell me how a SuperFX or SA-1 enhances the graphics?
Are you serious right now?

>> No.3405738
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3405738

>>3403834

>> No.3405760
File: 16 KB, 297x287, 077.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3405760

>>3404049
SuperFX: Cart has extra memory. SuperFX has facilities to draw to frame buffer in memory. Drawing commands special in the sense that what they draw is in the SNES tile format for a selected mode (prolly Mode1). When SuperFX is done drawing, DMA moves memory off cart and into VRAM where it is displayed.

>>3404053
>it churns out relatively sophisticated matrix multiplied display lists
That is not it at all. You got some multiply and divide commands, but no matrix commands on the SuperFX.

SA-1 is a coprocessor. It has lots of useful fast vector math (trig and shit) and other shit that I don't think ever got used (memory mapper). SNES offloads heavy computation onto SA-1 (which is essentially a faster 65816 with added registers). SA-1 and 65816 can run in parallel and independently interrupt each other. When SA-1 done, gives results back to 65816.

>> No.3405873

>>3405712
>64 colors
>Some cubes
Literally a Mario Kart ROM hack could do this. Pre-calculated, of course, but still.

>> No.3405890

>>3405694
Choppy framerate, slowdown, fog, etc.

Is it really that hard to figure out what could go wrong in an early 3D racer?

>>3405873
Uh have you ever played Star Fox? Almost everything is polygonal, have fun precalculating every little thing in the game.

>> No.3405908

>>3405890
>Almost everything is polygonal, have fun precalculating every little thing in the game
Of course it would be stupid and the ROM would be huge, but I'm trying to imply that all Special Chips were simply slaves to the SNES hardware. They made cool stuff, but everything had to still be within the SNES' limits.

>> No.3405973

Please don't post stuff you found from Game Sack

>> No.3405979

>>3405973
Also, Metroid Prime: Hunters, very amazing

>> No.3406358

>>3405890
I've never heard anyone use "seamless" in that context. All you're saying is "I like how it looks". No need to coat it in buzzwords

>> No.3406359

>>3405908
>I'm trying to imply that all Special Chips were simply slaves to the SNES hardware
You're doing a piss poor job. The only graphical limits any cartridge chip has to obey are tile limits (palette and tile count), nothing else. You can do Crysis on the SNES with a beefy cart chip and a good image quantizer. Don't know about sound limits. If the SNES has any capabilities to get an audio channel from the cart, like the GBC does, then you're not stuck with its sound chip either.

>> No.3406362

>>3400890
I don't think that Vagrant Story really pushed the PSX to it's limits. I mean, there's better looking games, and ones that run faster too.
I really think that the PSX wasn't really ever taken to the limit. But that's just me (probably).

>> No.3406369

>>3406362
where are a system's limits anyway? People like to post games that look busy and have slowdown, but that's not really useful indicators.

>> No.3406397 [DELETED] 

This fucking game on the GBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWBUdgIa0oE

>> No.3406436

>>3406359
>You can do Crysis on the SNES with a beefy cart chip and a good image quantizer.
Sure, but would it be good? What mode would you even use? 7? A 128×128 256-color image?

>> No.3406447

NES: Return of the Joker
SNES: Axelay
Genesis: Red Zone
PS1: Skullmonkeys
N64: World Driver Championship

>> No.3406454

>>3406436
>Sure, but would it be good?
virtually identical to the original, minus resolution and to some degree colors

>What mode would you even use? 7
mode 3 or so should be plenty. All the SNES has to do is show a screen full of tiles. No further transformations.

>A 128×128 256-color image?
256x224/239 256+ colors, depending on how the cart can take advantage of the second bg layer and sprite overlays. No idea if the SNES ever had successful hicolor graphics

>> No.3406464

>>3405973
It's like you don't know that Dave started the thread for content ideas when they revisit this topic.

>> No.3406472
File: 54 KB, 768x672, pixelsys.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3406472

>>3406454
>>3406436

>> No.3406475

>>3406454
Mode7 is a 128×128 256-color image, I meant.
But good points.

>> No.3406479

>>3406472
That wouldn't fit in vram

>> No.3406481

>>3406475
128x128 tiles, that's at least 1024x1024 pixels. Useless though because of the output resolution. A simple mode without rotation and scaling is more useful

>> No.3406490

>>3400890
I believe Tekken 3 on the PS1 pushed some limits on the console

It was an arcade game than ran on what basically was a "Namco Super PS1" and they somehow managed to even fucking put the game in 60fps at a higher resolution than normal.

>> No.3406493

>>3406481
What are mode3's limits? I doubt you could fit 256x224 px worth of unique tiles there
With sprites filling the gaps, maybe.

>> No.3406503

>>3406479
>>3406493
looks like the SNES gets to use 512 unique tiles (it's virtually impossible to find hard numbers, and this one does not look right, at all) and needs about 896 tiles to fill a screen. I'm too used to other platforms not having that issue. No idea if something could still be fiddled with during hblank. Keep in mind that the SNES itself can be virtually idle, and only needs to be concerned with moving the tiles off the cartridge.

I mean, Starfox itself is using exactly this technique, so it has to work. I just don't know the exact details

>This custom-made RISC processor is typically programmed to act like a graphics accelerator chip that draws polygons to a frame buffer in the RAM that sits adjacent to it. The data in this frame buffer is periodically transferred to the main video memory inside of the console using DMA in order to show up on the television display.

"main video memory" in this context is effectively the tile map and character data, since the SNES obviously has no framebuffer-equivalent

>> No.3406529

>>3402438
Its absolutely an experience thing. Its amazing comparing early NES games, which often felt like slightly better looking 2600 games to titles like SMB3 that could pass for lower-middling SNES games.

>> No.3406536

>>3403130
I don't understand how /vr/ thinks "retro" refers to system specs.
In 20 years the Xbox One will be retro.

>> No.3406541

>>3406536
you're under the wrong impression that the regular meaning of "retro" has any impact on the board rules

>> No.3406545

>>3406490
There really isn't very much impressive about Tekken 3 at all.

Think about what the game is 3D rendering. Literally two characters and a textured circle that they stand on.

The backgrounds are just 2D images that scroll.

What complicates 3D engines is calculation of things like visibility. Tekken 3 doesn't even have to worry much about that, since there's nothing 3D in the background.

>> No.3406560 [DELETED] 

>>3406545
>What complicates 3D engines is calculation of things like visibility. Tekken 3 doesn't even have to worry much about that, since there's nothing 3D in the background.
what you're talking about is probably frustrum culling, which the game is not very concerned with, or portal-based culling, which makes sense for regular 3D levels. It still needs to perform backface culling. A far bigger impact on fighter engines is that the scene is tightly controlled. It simply cannot exceed the polygon budget established by the characters and the stage, and most of the time they are fully visible on screen. For 3D games a huge issue is that under some circumstances a lot of objects can end up on the screen, slowing the computations to a crawl; and that levels usually contain far more polygons than can be rendered at any one moment, and instead they get culled to a sane number, depending on where the camera points at. As a result, such engines need to be frugal about their polygons, just for that one bad moment. Fighting games don't have that issue.

>> No.3406571

>>3406560
>It still needs to perform backface culling

Even that might not be necessary due to the relatively predictable rotation of the fighters, and the fact that there are only two meshes that require backface culling anyway. It could be baked.

>> No.3406574 [DELETED] 

>>3406571
the fighters can rotate, so their models are complete and culling needs to be performed dynamically. What the fuck are you trying to argue anyway? Don't bother answering. Fuck, I agreed with you and you're still shitting on me. Fucking assholes.

>> No.3406664
File: 1.48 MB, 768x720, 1453454480658.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3406664

>>3405973

No fair, I was shilling Toy Story months before Game Sack did it.

>> No.3406670

>>3406664
yeah, the game's slowly becoming the banjo of the snes, constantly shilled, getting so annoying, you just want that pos to be erased from history, so people will finally stfu about it

>> No.3406679

>>3406664
gamesack just googles "top 10 games that pushed hardware limits" and looks at the first few links. A lot of these games especially genesis titles have been know about for years.

>> No.3406693

>>3406679
>what is research

>> No.3406767

>>3406670
>the game's slowly becoming the banjo of the snes,
>constantly shilled, getting so annoying, you just want that pos to be erased from history
If that's the qualifications needed to be "the Banjo of X" then there are plenty of equally valid examples across most consoles. I'm not even sure how B-K fits into this.

>> No.3406872

>>3406693
more like recycling someone else's research.

>> No.3407297
File: 4 KB, 50x50, shantae_spin.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3407297

>>3405602

That's like, your opinion man. I absolutely adore it

I'm so happy she made a comeback as well, she deserves it

>> No.3407309

>>3406358
seam·less
ˈsēmləs/
adjective
smooth and continuous, with no apparent gaps or spaces between one part and the next.

I never said I like how it looks, it's actually a bit ugly if anything. Like I said, the silky smooth framerate makes for smooth and responsive gameplay.

>> No.3407343

>>3407309
>between one part and the next
that's the key. Where are the parts?

>smooth and responsive
this I understand much more than "seamless"

>gameplay
this is still bullshit bingo, as the gameplay is an abstract concept. The game runs smoothly and is responsive, fair enough. Gameplay itself is just hover things going fast

>> No.3407684

>>3402437
Holy crap that camera viewport.

I didn't know that you could do shaders like that on the N64.

>> No.3409843

Mega drive
The Yang Warrior Family https://youtu.be/fLH6Ce9tZaU
unlicensed chinese game with amazing graphics and gameplay. But the sound is bad and the game suffers from constant slowdown.

>> No.3409846

>>3409843
>the game suffers from constant slowdown
then it's not pushing the system to its limits, it's downright ignoring them. That's bad game design

>> No.3410057

>>3407684
>I didn't know that you could do shaders like that on the N64.

If the N64 was a PC it would actually be more DirectX 8 compliant than the GameCube (neither would be fully compliant though) due to it having programmable vertex shader capabilities and the GameCube not. Neither have programmable pixel shaders, but they do have pixel shading capabilities.

That being said, I highly doubt that effect is generated with any shader 'effects'. It would just be created by some kind of fish eye projection matrix.

>> No.3410064

>>3410057
if you only alter the projection matrix, all polygon edges would still be completely straight, because that's how rasterizers work (only the vertices are projected, then connected with straight lines). However the lines in the camera view are curved. That suggests the distortion happens after rasterizing, somehow

>> No.3410070

>>3410064
>That suggests the distortion happens after rasterizing, somehow

I think it would have to happen before rasterizing (e.g. be performed entirely in the vertex shader). The N64's pixel shader doesn't support operations more complicated than combines so it's not really suited to this kind of effect.

>> No.3410071

>>3410070
yeah, I know it lacks a pixel shader, which makes it confusing to me. The only other options I see is ridiculously high polygon models to produce the curve, or texture mapping the rendering result into an object matching the curve, but I don't think the N64 has enough RAM for that

>> No.3410083

>>3410071
>yeah, I know it lacks a pixel shader, which makes it confusing to me.

It does have a pixel shader, but it can only do combines, and by combines I mean 1 combine per pixel. It's very limited, but in theory you could do some (simple) per-pixel lighting or probably more realistically some noise effects. 3dfx Voodoo is exactly the same.

But the N64's vertex shader is not to be underestimated. Considering the age of the hardware it's very capable which is why I see it as a strong candidate for being responsible for any really impressive effects.

>> No.3410089

>>3410083
vertex shaders can only operate on the vertex level. That makes them quite capable, but after them still comes a stock rasterizer. It's not magic. So I have a bit of a problem handwaving it as "the magic component did it". I'd prefer a clean, mathematically consistent explanation

>> No.3410097

>>3403376
>>3400890
StarFox and Kirby's Dream Land 3 don't really count. They both used in-cart expansion chips.

>> No.3410102

>>3410089
There are fisheye vertex shaders out there for HLSL and GLSL that don't really touch the pixel shader side of things. I imagine something like that has been written in microcode for the N64.

Perfect Dark isn't the only N64 game with fisheye, I should say. Extreme-G has it too. Which is interesting, because third party developers weren't supposed to have microcode documentation.

>> No.3410107
File: 173 KB, 700x564, glslhacker_glsl_barrel_distortion_demo_v2b2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3410107

>>3410102
>There are fisheye vertex shaders out there for HLSL and GLSL that don't really touch the pixel shader side of things
You can do that if you have enough vertices, as the pic shows. The N64 is not exactly known for being a polygon pusher. The scene is already complex enough as is. These columns are very likely not made of dozens of polygons to form that curve

>> No.3410110
File: 12 KB, 480x360, xg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3410110

>>3410102
are you sure about xtreme g using fish eye? A very common effect in old futuristic racers is excessive fov depending on speed. Rollcage is quite famous for it. It looks a bit like the opposite of fish eye, with everything pulled to the center, and heavy distortion on the edges, but it does not require any vertex shading, just messing with the vectors of the perspective transform

>> No.3410116

>>3410110
Can confirm Extreme G uses excessive FOV. I used to use the cheat for unlimited nitrous and it stretched things out like crazy. It was pretty cool to witness.

>> No.3410124

>>3410107
I doubt Perfect Dark would be subdividing the polygons in a scene to make them bend, it would just be easier to do something funky with the vertex shader.

The N64 actually is really good at pushing polygons due to the powerful vertex shader, the problem is that real-world fill rate is limited due to RAM being hit hard on things like anti-aliasing. In a pure triangle drawing competition with no effects, shading, texturing or anything, the N64 would beat a Pentium Pro 200 with 3dfx Voodoo (the N64's pixel pipeline has a higher *peak* fill rate than Voodoo but that's only remotely achievable with memory taken out of the equation). But yeah, that's only a theoretical consideration. In a game like Perfect Dark, you definitely don't want to increase the number of polygons.

>>3410110
It's been ages since I played Extreme G but you're probably right. My fisheye comment is only because of my memories of playing it yonks ago....

>> No.3410129

>>3410124
>I doubt Perfect Dark would be subdividing the polygons in a scene to make them bend
indeed

>it would just be easier to do something funky with the vertex shader
A vertex shader only manipulates the endpoints, the corners of the polygons, the vertices. The rasterizer will, without exception, render perfectly straight lines between vertices, by design.

>The N64 actually is really good at pushing polygons
enough to subdivide heavily every single surface in the scene to produce curve?

>> No.3410135

>>3410129
>enough to subdivide heavily every single surface in the scene to produce curve?

You know, considering that the framerate seems to plummet massively when entering the CamSpy, maybe it just does.

>> No.3410141

>>3410135
how does that game run in P64? Should be easy enough to find out when you just increase the resolution, as then the curve will expose the faint kinks of the polygons, if that's how it works

>> No.3410148

>>3410141
Last time I tried (a while ago), CamSpy didn't work in PD64, implying that there was some kind of HLE fail, usually happens when the microcode is different.

But if it does work, would be good to see the wireframe mode.

>> No.3410679

>>3404497
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3SA9LuqQgA

>> No.3412405

>>3401001
Wow I hadn't seen that before.

>> No.3412414

>>3410679
>>3404614
lol weeb jprg shit

Jurassic Park 2 had a full voice intro, Power Rangers had a theme song, among many others

>> No.3412423
File: 1.74 MB, 320x240, Jurassic_Park_Rampage_Edition_Raptor_Savanna.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3412423

>>3400890
The amount of background scrolling in this level always really impressed me for a genesis game.

>> No.3412437

>>3412414
People on 4chan complaining about "weebs" will never not be funny.

>> No.3412460
File: 44 KB, 500x500, tumblr_mil5vuJF9j1qd4q8ao1_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3412460

NES:

METAL. SLADER. FUCKING. GLORY

LOok AT THIS SHET

LOOK At THESE FUCkIN ANIMATIONS

this is the snes version (that's the only gif i could find), but it looks almost as good on the nes.

>> No.3412468
File: 48 KB, 650x440, Hulk-Hogan-America-Fuck-Yeah_crop_exact.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3412468

>>3412437
>american site founded by an american

>> No.3412473
File: 351 KB, 320x249, Chiyo-tsukurimashou.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3412473

>>3412468
>owned by a jap

>> No.3412568
File: 66 KB, 680x227, Weeaboo.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3412568

>>3412468
We made the term weeaboo what it is. You're trying to use our own joke term for ourselves as a slur. It doesn't really work out very well.