/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3384186]

What are some strong examples of certain era's of gaming (or individual hardware, including arcade) that had a unique look? We're all familiar with pixel graphics, early 3D gaming and the like but what about more specific, harder to quantify examples like the difference between the N64 or Playstation? or the 2600/Colecovision/Intellivision?

Japanese retro PC gaming is beloved for its high quality pixel art, Apple II era games have this weird color palette and N64 games have often been described as having an unintentional surreal effect. Even more obscure examples like a game played on a TI-93 calculator or a Tiger Handheld have a unique look with a certain primitive charm.

What are some of your favorite examples and why? Also retro graphics in general I suppose.

[Anonymous No.3384330]

>>3384186
>harder to quantify examples like the difference between the N64 or Playstation?
They aren't hard to quantify.
> the 2600/Colecovision/Intellivision
It's not hard to tell exactly what's this console among them too.

[Anonymous No.3384331]

What many might not know is that the PS1's colour-space is not uniform like the RGB of other systems. The brightness levels ramp up very quickly at the low end -- this was done so that on CRTs there wouldn't be a thousand different shades of colours that all appeared just black. This is partly what gives the PSX its unique look and why, for example, Gran Turismo for the PSX is far more saturated and characteristic than say, the PSP's own Gran Turismo, where the full 24-bit RGB colour range gives a terribly dull and bland appearance.

[Anonymous No.3384334]

>>3384186
>or the 2600/Colecovision/Intellivision?

There was a huge difference. Coleco and Intellivision were closer to the NES, they were like gen 2.5, Atari had far inferior graphics, but it was also released many years earlier.

[Anonymous No.3384362]

>>3384334
>and Intellivision
No.
>but it was also released many years earlier.
Not exactly that. But, indeed, Atari VCS was projected a lot earlier, they waited a year or two so they wouldn't pay loyalties to Brown Box creator.

[Anonymous No.3384369]

>>3384334
I can't tell much of a difference other than Colecovision sprites seem to be higher quality and more pastel whereas Intellivision seems "inferior" and more garish wrt color.

[Anonymous No.3384401]

>>3384334
>Intellevision
No, Intellevision's graphics weren't in any way a step up from the Atari 2600. The Colecovision was the only console with nearly 3rd gen graphics.

[Anonymous No.3384454]

>>3384186
>Japanese retro PC gaming is beloved for its high quality pixel art,
You can normally make distinctions between 640x200@8 colors as used by the PC88, X1 and FM7 (though telling those apart is likely impossible) and the 640x400@16 colors of later PC98 games.
PC98 games with 640x200@16colors or 640x400@8colors can be a bit trickier.
Pic related, at first glance you'd think it's a PC88 game but if you take count you realize there's 16 colors.

[Anonymous No.3384493]

The differences between N64 and PS are extremely strong and extremely well known. You can hardly go through a page of threads here without tripping over arguments about N64 fog vs playstation popup, N64 blockiness vs playstation pixellation. You could hardly have picked a better example of same-generation consoles with distinct and characteristic graphics if you tried.

[Anonymous No.3384524]

Playstation because the rounding gives the architecture a lumpy look like a Henry Sellick film.

[Anonymous No.3384536]

>>3384186
>What are some strong examples of certain era's of gaming (or individual hardware, including arcade) that had a unique look?
Like every system ever.

[Anonymous No.3384539]

[Anonymous No.3384583]

>>3384186
The color bleeding of the ZXS is a classic.


>>3384536
I couldn't tell Amiga from SNES.

[Anonymous No.3384609]

Anything on the Doom engine, to the point where retail games using it just feel like elaborate Doom mods.

[Anonymous No.3384610]

>>3384401
You just didn't play Intellivision.

[Anonymous No.3384626]

>>3384539

[Anonymous No.3384724]

>>3384626
Shieeeet, I lost that GIF.

[Anonymous No.3384797]

>>3384186
early cell shaded games were amazing. The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker takes the cake.

Graphics like that looked amazing.

[Anonymous No.3384826]

>>3384331
Source? This is kind of a neat factoid.

[Anonymous No.3384927]

>>3384826
Search for "RGB Intensity Notes" on this page: http://problemkaputt.de/psx-spx.htm

>The Playstations RGB values aren't linear to normal RGB values (as used on PCs). The min/max values are of course the same, but the medium values differ:
>
> Intensity PC PSX
> Minimum 0 0
> Medium (circa) 16 8
> Maximum 31 31
>
>Ie. on the PSX, the intensity increases steeply from 0 to 15, and less steeply from 16 to 31.

[Anonymous No.3385135]

>>3384797
Not retro, but this is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc4Uw0b81dg

[Anonymous No.3385149]

>>3384626
On my UHD tv that shit is so small I can barely tell they are three tri force.

[Anonymous No.3385156]

>>3384797
People will get didlo in ass angry you said a not retro game. Jet Set Radio is a safer example.

[Anonymous No.3385202]

>>3384331
Is this basically explaining the color burn look when the brightness go down, or the vice versa when it fades to white? I fucking love that about PS1.

[Anonymous No.3385380]

>>3384826
it's called gamma correction. CRT ramps are not linear

[Anonymous No.3385396]

>>3384927
linear gamma is the goal. Gamma correction exists to reach that goal. It has nothing to do with console or computer, but the output device used. In this case both have CRTs, and indeed graphics cards perform gamma correction that looks not unlike the PS curve

[Anonymous No.3385492]

>>3385135
>>3385156
I wasn't aware that some autists chose an arbitrary age that consoles and games must be to be considered retro.

[Anonymous No.3385507]

>>3385492
retro as a general term is fairly smoothly transitioning, and entirely irrelevant. Retro regarding the name of the board is defined in the sticky and has a strict cutoff. People that value how this board is not yet too invaded by shitstains will try to defend it

[Anonymous No.3385649]

>>3385396
N64 also does gamma correction

http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/pro-man/pro05/index5.3.html

[Anonymous No.3385719]

>>3385202
Yes; they either made a mistake, or weren't able to include duplicate black values at the low-end meaning that the PlayStation cannot show "true" black, it's always a bit grey/yellow/blue. It's particularly noticeable in FMVs where you get blocky and multi-coloured dark areas.

[Anonymous No.3385796]

>>3385719
I love the way that shit looks in motion

[Anonymous No.3385815]

>>3385396
>Graphics cards perform gamma correction
In what way?
I'm under the impression that the CRT's gamma curve is a benefit we shouldn't fight, as it closely resembles the curve of human vision.
The problem with many games is the lack of gamma compensation in lighting. Without it, dark becomes bright way too fast, and this creates blinding bloom effects.

[Anonymous No.3386192]

>>3385649
every single system producing output for a CRT is doing gamma correction, out of necessity. It's part of basic color management.

[Anonymous No.3386201]

>>3385815
>In what way?
in the way that they apply a standard gamma curve to the channels, with the goal of the output of a gradient looking linear, if the input data is linear.

>the CRT's gamma curve is a benefit
the goal is correct color reproduction. Not more, not less. If a linear gradient in data produces a non-linear gradient in output, it needs to be corrected.

[Anonymous No.3386343]

>>3386192
How so?
I assume gamma correction is the process of turning linear encoding into a gamma encoded range, which definitely does not happen on a PC by default. Everything is already assumed to be gamma encoded.

[Anonymous No.3386354]

>>3386343
there is no gamma encoding or decoding. Gamma is a property of color models. Each input (camera, scanner) and output system (lcd, crt, but also printer) has its own gamma properties. Graphics cards apply gamma correction to produce consistent output. On Windows a default gamma correction of 2.2 is used, on OS X it's 1.8. Regardless, monitors may come with their own color profile that will alter the gamma curve again to correct for their own technological differences

[Anonymous No.3387153]

>>3385135
And what this have to do with that post? Because this game have absolutely nothing to do with cel-shading.

[Anonymous No.3387197]

>>3387153
it's going for a hand-drawn anime/animated look, just using a different technique

[Anonymous No.3387369]

>>3385719
>duplicate black values at the low-end meaning that the PlayStation cannot show "true" black, it's always a bit grey/yellow/blue. It's particularly noticeable in FMVs where you get blocky and multi-coloured dark areas.

That's just MPEG compression you dummo.

[Anonymous No.3388034]

>>3385202
I think that was from devs using a big-ol-screen-covering square with additive/multiplicative blending for fades because it processes faster that if you were using some semi-transparency effect.

[Anonymous No.3388091]

>>3387369
Yes, and no. Of course it's MPEG compression, it's a video -- but the colours are an artefact of the PSX's colour-ramp. On a CRT you can see that even when the PSX is displaying a black screen, it's nowhere as near black as other systems.

[Anonymous No.3388140]

>>3384583
Well Amiga came much earlier than SNES, it was actually born in the NES era: 1985 for the Amiga 1000, and two years later the A500 budget model that became really popular.
During that time before SNES, games changed quite a bit, and the first thing that really screams Amiga to me is the typical Psygnosis game with massive amounts of parallax scrolling and sweet sample-based audio. Pic is the game that really sold me on this computer. After playing it on someone else's machine, I just had to get me one of those.

[Anonymous No.3388219]

>>3386354
>On Windows a default gamma correction of 2.2 is used
If you open paint and make a gradient from 0-255, nothing but the monitor's gamma matters.
If this range was intended to be linear, it will look wrong, for there is no post-gamma correction applied, it is just sent to the display.
That is unless you apply custom colour profiles, but that causes banding.

[Anonymous No.3388449]

>>3388219
>nothing but the monitor's gamma matters
and the GPU's, and the driver's and the OS's

[Anonymous No.3388651]

>>3388449
Yeah, but they don't do anything by default, because everything is assumed to be sRGB encoded. As an example, a picture that is specifically marked as something else will be corrected.

[Anonymous No.3388659]

I like how rough, low poly 3D models can make enemies and bosses look scary. Replicate this today with millions of polygons and it won't have the same effect.

[Anonymous No.3388687]

>>3385202
Absolutely loved this too, made games with pre-rendered backgrounds look so amazing.

[Anonymous No.3389551]

>>3388651
>sRGB uses the ITU-R BT.709 primaries, the same as are used in studio monitors and HDTV, and a transfer function (gamma curve) typical of CRTs. This specification allowed sRGB to be directly displayed on typical CRT monitors of the time, a factor which greatly aided its acceptance.

>Unlike most other RGB color spaces, the sRGB gamma cannot be expressed as a single numerical value. The overall gamma is approximately 2.2, consisting of a linear (gamma 1.0) section near black, and a non-linear section elsewhere involving a 2.4 exponent and a gamma (slope of log output versus log input) changing from 1.0 through about 2.3.

In other words, sRGB uses a gamma of not-1, in order to produce correct output on CRTs. Same way the PS or the N64 use a gamma of not-1 to produce correct output on CRTs, which was the original subject.

[Anonymous No.3389962]

>>3388659
for me It´s something simmilar with scenarios. a game like Zelda OoT feels enormous, while bigger games with better graphics from that generation felt way emptier

[Anonymous No.3389965]

>>3389551
It's not the PS or N64 that use gamma. It's really just the CRT and developers making textures.
I mean, the consoles do perhaps have some functions related to gamma, but it's otherwise transparent to the system. For photographs, the gamma correction is already performed in the camera.

[Anonymous No.3390036]

>>3388659

that screen give me headache

[Anonymous No.3390486]

>>3389965
>It's not the PS or N64 that use gamma
It's the console applying gamma correction to produce correct output on a CRT

>it's otherwise transparent to the system
always is, nobody suggested developers perform calls or anything

>For photographs, the gamma correction is already performed in the camera.
for photographs the camera corrects its own gamma to reach a neutral baseline. Another correction in the opposite direction is necessary when showing the picture on a display