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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3334810 No.3334810 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

What RPGs can I play a necromancer in? Or at least have a Necromancer character somewhere in the story that can join my party?

I noticed that dark magic/necromancy doesn't seem to be common in most retro rpgs.

>> No.3334821
File: 358 KB, 1024x768, skiesofarcadia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Fun fact, in Skies of Arcadia, there is supposedly a destroyed 7th moon, a Black Moon, that would have most likely be negative energy/necromancy focused magic.

>> No.3334830

Not quite retro, but Diablo 2.

>> No.3334858

I was talking more about traditional RPGs with parties and stuff.

>> No.3334915
File: 92 KB, 775x1024, Wizardry4_1988_ad_zps2540bccc[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Remember, OP - You asked for this.

>> No.3334935

Tactics Ogre/Ogre Battle games let you eventually become Vampires or Liches, or both depending on the game.

Tactics Ogre even has Necromancers & some rare as fuck necromancy spells.

Granted I can't think of any game, even modern ones, that do Necromancy particularly well. A lot of early Necromancy was some fairly interesting body horror, especially in tabletop games like DnD 3.5 where you could animate the organs of your enemies, or you could pull the heart from their chests, or melt their limbs with a withering beam of negative energy.

Now everything Necromancy is pet Skeletons and generic damage beams

>> No.3334938

>early like DnD 3.5
>July 2003

>> No.3334945
File: 1.27 MB, 1215x963, skeletor-1980s.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.3335020

>Not Ogre Battle 64

>> No.3335024

>July 2003 was almost 15 years ago

>> No.3335065
File: 339 KB, 785x965, basic_otus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You gotta go back further. D20 isn't even retro design, it's all new-fangled postmodern stuff.
Anything made by TSR is retro, so that includes everything from AD&D 2nd edition all the way back to 1974 white box.
Postin my favorite edition of all time. It doesn't have necromancers though (but you can ad-hoc implement them in, as a magic-user variant, that's the Basic D&D way).
AD&D 2nd edition had a Complete Necromancer book or something.

>> No.3335097

Final Fantasy V remake after you beat the game

>> No.3335115


>> No.3335119

what the fuck?

>> No.3335170

Dark Law has some pretty great necromancy/alchemy in it's plot, but it's all on the enemy's side rather than your own.

Baldur's Gate has necromancers, though it's pretty much just animate skeletons and drain/death magic because DnD is boring af.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup has decent enough necromancy I suppose, and was released in 1996 and is still being developed to this day.

The SMT series lets you become a god-tier summoner and there are many dark spirits and folklore undeads among your possible minions.

Phantom Brave also technically qualifies, as you play the role of a young girl with a god-tier power to call out the spirits of the dead to form a legion of warriors.

Though maybe that doesn't count, since it's closer to what Lenneth does in Valkyrie Profile, who is decidedly not a necromancer and more of a necro-buster.

>> No.3335174
File: 35 KB, 258x600, Nemissa_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Nemissa from SMT Soul Hackers can use necromancy powers to reanimate demons that have died on your party and use their undead versions during battle, undead demons can't get hit by physical attacks.

>> No.3335175
File: 32 KB, 393x500, latest[2].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

First edition necromancer would have been a specialty priest. I think modern gamers don't want to be priests. They were already fucking it up by 1995 with pic related.

>> No.3335230

I think most people call them cRPGs now, as long as it is like Baldurs Gate or Planescape Torment.

>> No.3335268

The GBA remake of Final Fantasy 5 has a bonus dungeon after you finish the game where you can get a Necromancer class.

It's completely fucking wasted because THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO ONCE YOU GET IT.

>> No.3335290

Everquest is retro, has a playable emulated version of the game as it was in 99 with a pretty active community, and it has a pretty robust necromancer class.

I get drawn into it from time to time but I never stick with it because MMO's are a massive time sink.

>> No.3335332

>specialty priest
That's 2nd edition desu. 1st edition only had clerics, druids, and whatever else was in Unearthed Arcana (never used that stuff, so dunno). Well, I guess there's also whatever was published in Dragon Magazine, there's a decent chance a necromancer made it. But the base classes in the original Players Handbook were pretty static, unlike 2nd edition where you could specialize mages & clerics, or just run with the old generic archetype.
I've no idea how Book of Necromancers turned out, and hardly even used the first four class books during my 2nd edition days. Pretty much we just stuck with the "core" books most of the time.

>> No.3335351


>> No.3335352

I think OP is talking about games like Ogre Battle 64, Skies of Arcadia, Final Fantasy 7, Gradius 2, and others where you add people to your party and use them in fights and shit. Which is a classic RPG.

And of them, I can't think of any with an actual Necromancer. Plenty of mages, clerics, knights, archers, rangers, and even more eccentric/weird classes but no Necros.

>> No.3335372

Arcanum had some crazy magic stuff. You could build a straight Necromancer.

>> No.3335383

Not many options out there, other than Return of Werdna that >>3334915 suggested (you'll sweat blood with that one), all I can think of with party and stuff is Etrian Odyssey V, and that's so not /vr/ that it's still not out yet.
I guess the idea of a "good" or "neutral" necromancer is pretty new, they have always been the "easy bad guy" formula.

>> No.3335527

More of a turn-based strategy game with RPG elements but Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and its sequels have playable necromancers and their armies of undead.

So, if you don't mind fantasy 4X, Master of Magic and Age of Wonders can sate your thirst for necromancy too.

>> No.3335750

Dungeon Crawl!
I forgot that had necromancy.
I'm still mad the anti undead spell got pulled as a guaranteed gift from Kikubaaqghuda.

Fucking Yredmnul
Carry the black torch, rouse the idle dead!

>> No.3335816
File: 176 KB, 715x907, Dragonlance Adventures p 42.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.3335821

DL was only in Second ed

>> No.3335918
File: 44 KB, 273x400, dragonlanceadventuresprof[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.3335931

Someone made a patch that grants you access to all classes really early on.

>> No.3335938
File: 21 KB, 320x200, Ultima VIII - Pagan_8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Ultima 8 requires you to learn Necromancy early on. It isn't much of a RPG and generally sucks ass.

>> No.3335952
File: 530 KB, 1024x1342, swgame.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm sure this will sound like heresy, but I was big into D&D in the 80's and 90's and ended up liking the D20 system better than any of the earlier edition rules.

West End Game Star Wars is still my favorite system overall though. I've used it as a base for many settings.

>> No.3335956

Oh yes Lenneth and necromancers don't get along, what with her "Your sins lay heavy upon you, defiler of souls. By the holy laws you shall be obliterated".

Though it's funny seeing them call her a death-goddess to piss her off.

>> No.3335993
File: 120 KB, 444x619, osric_ebook_cover[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

There's nothing wrong with that. The D20 system was developed back when Wizards still had a soul and their top priority was making a good game, just like 1st edition was for TSR. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with 2nd edition but the expansions were inadequately playtested and/or full of useless shit culminating in the greatest D&D atrocity ever - the 2e splat books.

Check out pic related sometime if you want to gain an appreciation of classic D&D rules without having to puzzle over fucked up 70s organization and phrasing.

>> No.3336000

Not really necromancers, but I did a playthrough of FFII where everyone did most of their damage using Drain and poison and focusing on Osmose, Curse and whatnot. Quite fun and easier than expected.

>> No.3336008

I never minded all the ancillary books in 2E, some of them had neat ideas. I was just selective about what special classes or rules I would let in game. Actually I don't think I ever ran or even played in a long running D&D game where we didn't use some degree of house rules to make it work better.

>> No.3336019

Neat, inadequately tested ideas belonged in Dragon Magazine not in retail rulebooks.

>> No.3336031

How did this turn into /tg/?

>> No.3336037

I don't see an important distinction. Dragon already had plenty of content and that stuff already. Sure they could have done special issues that were all about one class or something, but I think books were a fine way to go. If you play a lot of priests or some specific class they were interesting, if you don't care then don't buy them.

>> No.3336196

Official rulebooks should be playtested and not broken. When a DM is forced to say "you can't do this and you can't do that because I said so" it's the beginning of the end for a campaign.

>> No.3336210

>it's the beginning of the end for a campaign.

I think it's the beginning of the beginning. But like I say, we almost always used some variation of house rules anyways so it was just a matter of seeing if something felt broken or not.

>> No.3336226

And ill bet that seems like a really long time ago to a youngster like you.

>> No.3336234
File: 124 KB, 750x915, 1463315548319.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I just picked up:

2 Disciples II games
Realms of Arkania 1, 2, and 3
Wizardry 6, 7, 8

What am I in for?

>> No.3336238


this was actually meant for another thread, but you guys might be able to answer here too. Sorry about that!

>> No.3336239

It's the beginning of the beginning of your game ceasing to be a game and starting to be a circle jerk

>> No.3336245

What does that even mean?

>> No.3336253


I wonder who is this retard.

>> No.3336273

>>3336245 here

I'm clarifying what that guy is talking about, who seems to be implying that rule variations in p&p roleplaying turns it into a circle jerk.

Partly I'm wondering if it's the guy we get around here who's against roleplaying in those games in general. We've butted heads on things a few times.

>> No.3336307

Nobody wanted to discuss pen and paper RPGs. OP made a thread requesting Necromancy in Retro RPGs and people derailed/took over with /tg/ stuff.

>> No.3336316
File: 2 KB, 48x97, Joe-moon1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Cry me a river.

>> No.3336338
File: 10 KB, 275x183, images[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm all for role playing when it's within the rules. It's actually quite a pleasant break from the grind. My personal ongoing campaign features tons of role playing, tbqh. We joke around, there's real comedy. There's characters both player and non that players truly care about then when the dice start hitting the table things are deadly serious. It's how it was meant to be.

>> No.3336342

Why don't YOU clarify how house rules have anything to do with role play.

>> No.3336357

Ahh that's cool! I've always liked games that are heavier on roleplay than combat. Usually when combat happens it's a last resort and likely to get nasty. That's partly why I liked the WEG Star Wars system so much.

A roleplaying game is where a group of people collectively roleplay characters and along with a Dungeon Master or storyteller of some sort weave a story as they play the game.

House rules are just variations on the standard rules to make them fit the group of people you're playing with. So of course they would affect all aspects, including the roleplay.

>> No.3336373
File: 504 KB, 698x760, 1465019057729.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>tfw come back to my thread
>it's all pen and paper stuff

I g-guess I'll just make a new thread later that clarifies I meant video games...

>> No.3336391
File: 14 KB, 640x385, ne4-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You already got most of the relevant replies already, just read the thread. There aren't a ton of retro rpgs with that many options.

If you're willing to delve into roguelikes, a number of them let you play necromancers as well though. ADOM's is pretty great, they're decent in ToME and Nethack too.

>> No.3336431
File: 84 KB, 350x234, rufusandburne[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Although I'm sure I am the Anon you feel you've butted heads with in the past I actually think you would enjoy my campaign and learn a few things as well. The type of campaign you probably hate is one where players sit down and do low DC combat after combat after combat for hours and hours to get maximum XP out of their gaming session. My (retro-sensibility) campaign is much more of a roller coaster ride with the comic-relief sections being just as necessary to provide a break from the intensity of my extremely challenging combat segments as the hyper-XP rewards those encounters earn are necessary to make up for time "wasted" on RP. In this way, I can keep both RP types and combat types fully satisfied and not fearing occasionally mix up the blend by running comedy combat or dangerous RP. All this can be accomplished completely within the rules. House rules are a crutch that only leads to favoritism and discord. The only person the players should ever be pissed at is the DM and if things are going right they'll all hate me the same amount at the same time - and not for long when I open the book and show them exactly what happened. Then they can hate the people who made the rules, which wasn't any of us.

>> No.3336443
File: 109 KB, 460x452, 2eazalinstrahd[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why don't you spend the time you took writing that reply to die five times in Wizardry 4 like I told you to do yesterday?

>> No.3336486

Stop being mean

>> No.3336493


ADOM has a playable necromancer class. You can animate skeletons etc from corpses that enemies leave.

>> No.3337131

DLA is very campaign-specific and came out at the tail end of the 1st edition era. You could retrofit those classes into a more generic AD&D campaign, but personally I'd be more inclined to look at Dragon Magazine first.
It wasn't until 2nd edition that speciality priests became options in the Players Handbook.

Yeah it depends on what you're looking for. I was just saying that TSR's rules are representative of old-school gaming. Later stuff (Rolemaster/MERP, Star Wars, HERO System, and many others that followed) tried to move away from the byzantine early D&D-like systems.

>> No.3337285

> house rules r bad
Guidelines, not rules - that's one of the major differences between TSR era D&D and the later d20 stuff.
Tournament play was an exception, and a major reason for the existence of AD&D. But in regular groups, house rules were very common.

>> No.3337365

> Look at 1e PHB
> Look at necromancy spells
> They're priest spells
Ergo in 1e, a "necromancer" would have been a priest who used necromancy spells

>> No.3338347

Maybe you are him, but you sound a lot more reasonable. The guy I'm thinking of thinks of it almost entirely as a combat simulator and actually insisted that roleplaying is a kind of aberration that never should have become as big a part of D&D as it did.

Which I just found a little funny because I have almost the opposite opinion, I was fascinated by the storytelling/roleplaying aspects of D&D right away and love that about the game. It's the actual combat where I think they dropped the ball, and often the most boring part of a session. Also partly why I like the WEG Star Wars system so much more.

My take on house rules has always been that it's is a game, the purpose of which is to be fun. It was made by a group of guys with one idea of what works best, but that doesn't necessarily work best for me or my players.

Actually part of the reason I ended up liking 4E when it came about is that it was closer to a lot of the house rules my campaign had developed over the years.

But also like I say, I ran a very non-combat oriented game. There was usually more XP to me had by avoiding a fight than going into one, and the times the players are fighting it was usually because they fucked up and it's not a situation they wanted to be in.

But that was just my game, and obviously not everyone's tastes but it worked for the group I did most of my playing with.

>> No.3340639

Seconding this. ADoM necromancers fucking rock.

>> No.3340653
File: 117 KB, 1424x842, sandro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Heroes of Might and Magic had Necromancers and Necromantic cities

I love wrecking armies with undead dragons and then raising the vicitims from the dead

>> No.3340762

also in MM 7-8 you can become a lich.

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