ITT

[Anonymous No.3295173]

Patrician levels that plebs hate.

[Anonymous No.3295179]

>it aint me starts playing

[Anonymous No.3295180]

Sandopolis Act 1 is actually a good level.

Act 2 is boring, too much switch trickery, takes too long to go through, it's in general not really good.. what do you like about it, OP?

[Anonymous No.3295186]

>>3295180
Seems like people hate it because it's too maze-like, plus the ghosts (they're pretty easy to deal with, never understood the issue with them). I like maze-y, more intricate levels. Also ambientation is great, ramps up the difficulty. To me it maks the "Oh shit, real S&K starts now" moment.

[Anonymous No.3295191]

>>3295186

I don't mind maze levels that much (I'm actually one of the people who enjoy Sonic CD's level design for what it is, open levels that are fun to explore).
But Sandopolis Act 2 isn't all that great to explore, I think it's just intricate but not in the right way. There isn't any fun platforming, it's just slides and places where you need to find switches to get through, and it repeats a lot.

I also don't think the ghosts are actually a problem, as you say it's easy to deal with them, even if the lights are completely off (something that will not happen unless you keep missing the light switches), they're still easy to dodge.

My main problem with it is the level design and the whole sand switches thing.

Sandopolis act 2 is the boring medium part of S&K for me, and the real game starts in Lava Reef.

[Anonymous No.3295194]

>>3295173
I unironically try to avoid the light switches, it makes the level much more interesting to play.

[Anonymous No.3295309]

>>3295180
no act 1 is slow and boring.

act 2 you're racing the clock, in a maze, and periodically trapped into a gauntlet with quicksand.

[Anonymous No.3295332]

>>3295309

Sandopolis Act 1 is far from being one of the best levels in the game, but it has fun alternate paths overall the level feels pretty much like a standard go fast level.

>periodically trapped into a gauntlet with quicksand.

That's what I didn't like about it. Wouldn't have minded once or twice, but there's too much of that shit on the level. Not even hard, just tedious going back and forth and slow level progression. No interesting platforming pieces and no interesting enemies.

[Anonymous No.3295435]

Carnival Night Zone, because some plebs seriously don't know how to press up and down.

[Anonymous No.3295450]

>>3295435

The barrel is not a problem in that level, all the retardedly placed bumpers are.

It's a very clusterfucky zone. The visuals are nice too, although still look a bit messy here and there.

[Anonymous No.3295532]

>>3295450

>waah, why I cannot press right to win? ;_;

Improve your skills

[Anonymous No.3295543]

>>3295532

I like Lava Reef zone, though. Not hold right to win, but not boring.

Sando act 2 and Carnival are boring to me, not hard.

[Anonymous No.3295846]

>>3295191
wouldn't mind exploring sonic levels if the movement was geared toward it instead of being about going fast.

[Anonymous No.3295852]

>>3295173
those KKK ghosts stil scare me

[Anonymous No.3296049]

>>3295173

[Anonymous No.3296097]

>>3295332
Are there any interesting platform pieces in S&K at all really? Everywhere there should be platforming or progression based on skill and timing based on fluid movement, instead there's a fucking zipline or a seesaw or a fucking snowboard for all of 10 seconds. The game is really shit, and even go-fast is practically non existent in S&K, outside of the specific little railroaded routes you get.

Sonic CD at least has you going fast because you're good at playing the game, and even gives you a race and the super-peel-out to negotiate the conservation of momentum it has with the presence of upward slopes.

[Anonymous No.3296103]

>>3295532
>press right to win
I thought that was Sonic's whole ethos. Well, alternating between right and down.

[Anonymous No.3296142]

The two jetboard levels in MM8 are the only autoscrolling levels I've found are fun to play for the simple reason that they aren't painfully slow and uneventful like every other.

[Anonymous No.3296225]

>>3295191
>the real game starts in Lava Reef.
this

s&k sucks until lava reef

[Anonymous No.3296270]

>>3296225
>hating flying battery
kys

[Anonymous No.3296303]

>>3296270
>hating mushroom hill

It's like you fuckers have something against comfy, original, solid opening levels and cool bouncy music. S&K begins the moment you press 'start'.

[Anonymous No.3296321]

>>3296270
>>3296303

Nobody said anything about hating these zones. Mushroom and Flying and good opening levels, but in Lava Reef shit gets real. Sandopolis is the annoying intermission between the first levels and the core of the game.

[Anonymous No.3296371]

>>3295173
I don't like Sandopolis Act 2, but not because of the ghosts, the switches, or the boss. I just get lost really easily, and lost is not something you should be in a game as linear as Sonic.

[Anonymous No.3296620]

>>3295186
>"Oh shit, real S&K starts now"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlV6sFcMtcA

[Anonymous No.3296640]

>>3295191
>But Sandopolis Act 2 isn't all that great to explore,
Okay, why's that?

>I think it's just intricate but not in the right way.
What way is the "right" way, then?

>There isn't any fun platforming,
So "fun" is your ultimate criteria for evaluating, overall, a piece of game design?

>it's just slides
>just slides
Well, the level is one of the rare vertically looping levels. There is one spot where you can get stuck in an infinite loop of these slides. It's like a puzzle because there are several different slides to take but many of them only result in sending you back into the loop. Only by finding the right sequence of slides can you ever escape. I'd say that's some pretty high quality content right there. What more could you possibly want?

>and places where you need to find switches to get through, and it repeats a lot.
I'm sorry you hate playing video games, anon.

[Anonymous No.3296660]

>>3295332
>No interesting platforming pieces and no interesting enemies.
Lol what? Skorp is literally the single most interesting enemy in the entire game. Seriously, his programming is very complex compared to other enemies.

And what about the sand slopes where the rocks slide down and you have to jump from rock to rock to make it up the hill? Aren't those interesting platforming segments by the sheer virtue of how unique they are, if nothing else?

[Anonymous No.3296682]

>>3296097
>Everywhere there should be platforming or progression based on skill and timing based on fluid movement, instead there's a fucking zipline or a seesaw or a fucking snowboard for all of 10 seconds.
I see you have been reading from the "No Fun Allowed" guide to level design.

>>3296321
You just hate Sandopolis.

>>3296371
>and lost is not something you should be in a game as linear as Sonic.
Maybe Sonic is not as linear as you think? I think the fact you're able to get lost in that level in the first place is a testament to how rich the design is there. Don't blame the game just because you get lost, and don't get mad; when you get lost, get glad that the game includes that much content for your enjoyment.

[Anonymous No.3296702]

[Anonymous No.3296907]

>>3296640
>Okay, why's that?
>What way is the "right" way, then?
I don't remember much exploration in Sand Act 2, is all. I just remember Sonic's path, Knuckles' path, and nothing else, the rest is more or less linear, you might get lost looking for the sand switches but it's not all that complex.

>So "fun" is your ultimate criteria for evaluating, overall, a piece of game design?

Gee, sorry for using the F word. I just think there was little platforming design overall, it's designed more around the whole switch pulling stuff. It's not all completely bad, I remember one secret big ring can be accessed if you push one of the switches and get to the other side fast enough before the door closes, but most of the time it feels like a chore.

>What more could you possibly want?

I'd like more platforming/badniks and less switch pulling.

>I'm sorry you hate playing video games, anon.

I fucking love vidya, and I've completed 3&K many times. Sorry you can't take other's opinions without dramatizing everything, anon.

>>3296660

You're talking about Act 1, I'm talking about Act 2. I actually said Act 1 is a good level.

>>3296682

>You just hate Sandopolis.

I just think Act 2 is the most boring part of the game, but I don't hate it, it has good music!

[Anonymous No.3296971]

>>3296907
>it has good music!
Yeah.

You mention sand switches a lot. I'm not sure whether you mean the hanging bars that you grab onto and pull down to re-ignite the candles in the background to banish the ghosts, or if you mean the black blocks you have to slowly, (admittedly) tediously push forward to temporarily open gates. Maybe you are referring to both?

There does seem to be a general consensus that SOZ2 suffers from too slow a pace, too many switches, too much length, etc. Part of the reason for that might have to do with the mere fact that those blocks move so slow when you push them.

I wonder how the public's perception of this level would change if they had just coded the blocks to go faster? It makes you wonder why they didn't just do this in the first place, right? It seems obvious: the constant switch-pulling and switch-pushing bogs down the fast-paced gameplay.

So why have it? Was it a mistake? Bad game design? I'd argue, no; it's like that by design. SOZ2 is the only level in the game to feature such switch-heavy gameplay; there's switches which are quick to operate but you must activate them frequently (to control the ghosts), and then there are switches which are less frequent but take much longer to activate (the gate-openers); both types of switches are related in that both contain a time-limit element; you only have so long before the ghosts respawn, and there's only so much time before the gates shut.

Good game design is subtle. So subtle you almost don't notice it unless you set out to look for it. I don't think it's pure coincidence that the one level which contains the spooky, scary ghosts who respawn every so often is also the one and only level to focus so heavily on such a cumbersome door-opening switch mechanic. It's clear to me the reason it takes so long to open the door switches in SOZ2 is because the developers sought to instill a sense of tension and suspense in players, and they succeeded.

[Anonymous No.3296978]

>>3296971

I actually mean the slow pushing switches. The light handles are easy to grab and also ghosts aren't really that big of a problem, they take a lot of time to actually do something and even when they do they're not lethal (if you have rings) and kinda easy to dodge, and there's bound to be a light switch somewhere near.

My main beef was with the slow pushing ones, AND these sand plugs you have to hit in the ceilings. Most people who get lost on this level is because of one of these.

I'm not saying the idea of having a claustro level with lots of switches and closing doors is bad, it kind of fits a pyramid-themed level, but I think there must have been better ways to do it, I just never have fun with that level when I replay the game, it's the one level that feels like a complete chore.

[Anonymous No.3296991]

>>3296978
Mayhaps the team got a little carried away with their whole Indiana Jones mindset for the pyramid level. I give props to the way they managed to incorporate mini-autoscrolling segments into the larger, non-autoscrolling level as a whole through the use of the sand switches you mentioned, though. Usually when we see auto-scrollers it's an entire level, right?

Come to think of it, I know in at least once of those instances where the sand is filling up the room below, there's one of those slow switches players have to push to open a gate in time or they will be crushed -- further proof that they were trying to achieve a frantic, panic-inducey feeling throughout this level.

In a way that makes it almost like SK's de-facto water level, huh?

[Anonymous No.3297026]

>>3296991

I actually don't mind water levels everyone hate like Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1.

Labyrinth is tough at first but once you learn that you have to take it slow, the 3 acts don't really take too long to complete.
Sando Act 2 is a slow one even if you're doing everything right.

[Anonymous No.3297031]

>>3297026
At least there's no actual water in it. Fuck that shit, generally, slowing movement and fucking up the usual physics. I mean I guess it was a worthwhile game mechanic at the time and all but boy it really does get old.

[Anonymous No.3297034]

>>3295173
>knuckles
not retro

[Anonymous No.3297036]

Yeah I said it

[Anonymous No.3297040]

>>3295173
Too lazy to post it but Marble Garden

[Anonymous No.3297042]

>>3296103
>I thought that was Sonic's whole ethos
kill yourself memer

[Anonymous No.3297047]

>>3296303
>S&K begins the moment you press 'start'.
Fucking this

>>3296321
>but in Lava Reef shit gets real.
Because you're entering the climax of the grand adventure known as "Sonic 3 & Knuckles"

Lava Reef is literally the 10th zone of the game

[Anonymous No.3297048]

>>3297031
>I hate water levels
>Am I cool yet GAIZZZ!!!
Fuck off pleb water levels are the shit fucking idiot

[Anonymous No.3297052]

>>3297048
Wait did I just get mistaken for being a hipster for saying I didn't like water levels? Fuck this website.

[Anonymous No.3297059]

>>3297040
>he likes marble garbage

Those spinning tops are annoying, the intentionally place those spikey floating assholes and the spining spike balls just off screen exactly where you would intuitively go. Worst crushing death pillars that glitch way too frequently and kill you when they shouldn't. Level takes too long. The last boss is obnoxious if you're playing as tails. Music is only ok by retro sonic standards, as is the level theme.

[Anonymous No.3297084]

>>3297059
>Level takes too long.
>I hate it when games have too much content. Why should I have to play them so much??? What poor design.

[Anonymous No.3297146]

>>3297059
Found the pleb

[Anonymous No.3297148]

>>3297059
>Music is only ok by retro sonic standards
Kill yourself you shit taste adhd nigger with no taste for music
Marble Garden has some of the best tracks not only in Sonic games but in all of gaming

And "Retro Sonic standards" have yet to be fucking topped fyi

[Anonymous No.3297198]

>>3296682
>>Everywhere there should be platforming or progression based on skill and timing based on fluid movement, instead there's a fucking zipline or a seesaw or a fucking snowboard for all of 10 seconds.
>I see you have been reading from the "No Fun Allowed" guide to level design.
that shit isn't fun

[Anonymous No.3297204]

>>3297036
it actually forces you to take damage on purpose in order to make it through fast enough and avoid taking it unintentionally instead, so I'm inclined to agree, shit has tension up the wing wong

[Anonymous No.3297347]

>>3297059
>obnoxious

this word triggers me so hard

[Anonymous No.3297415]

>>3295173
Ew.

>>3295180
>Sandopolis Act 1 is actually a good level
Sandopolis literally starts with you having to push a block to progress.

[Anonymous No.3297429]

>>3296142
>fun to play for the simple reason that they aren't painfully slow and uneventful like every other
That's quite true, there are actually 3 jetboard levels, two fast and one slow, the slow one being the worst since it drags for longer making losing much more annoying.

Those are much more well put together and fun than any X jet level and yet, I only see people pointing fingers at 8 while avoiding the X problem entierely. X4 in particular is a game full of rubbish that seems to get a free pass because "you can play as Zero".

[Anonymous No.3297453]

>>3297415
>Sandopolis literally starts with you having to push a block to progress.
Yeah, it's tutorializing you right away on how a new game mechanic works. That literally is good game design.

[Anonymous No.3297456]

>>3297453
I really much prefer sink or swim desu

[Anonymous No.3297463]

>>3297456
Well they didn't tutorialize players properly to the barrel in CNZ and look what happened. You are now arguing that THAT is superior game design.

[Anonymous No.3297475]

>>3297429
I quite like the speed and bullshit unforgiving qualities of the jet level in X5

though I can accept that MM8 still does it better

Actually, while we're on the subject, doesn't the MMZ series do "gotta go fast" better than most Sonic games? I have fond memories of skipping across the water surfaces and pogo sticking enemies to conserve momentum or the seriously huge leaps with the recoil rod, slicing straight through enemies with split second timing

Really aren't most Sonic games rather ironically not that enjoyable to speedrun

[Anonymous No.3297493]

I don't like act 2. The sand brakes pacing too much.

[Anonymous No.3297494]

>>3297463
well that's really not that challenging is it, it's almost not even a gameplay element, it's just a really strange design choice that doesn't reflect the rest of the game's philosophy or the expectations it lays out

to begin with what is sonic even doing that makes the barrel go up and down? he doesn't even move he just operates the mechanism with psychokinesis or manipulates gravity or something

there's really no precedent for it in the rest of the series either, everything you do in any other level is accomplished by physically interacting by moving sonic around, flipping check points, standing on switches, jumping into things or spindashing through them, it's all very, pretty much exclusively kinetic, and that barrel is so very not

the only explanation for it is "it's a videogame", but that is such a terrible rationalization for any game that had any shred of verisimilitude or simulation before-hand, unless it was done to intentionally create a narrative dissonance and I really don't think it was in this case

[Anonymous No.3297524]

>>3297453
>Yeah, it's tutorializing you right away on how a new game mechanic works
Yes, it's warning you that the level is made of annoying, dumb shit the moment you start.

[Anonymous No.3297530]

>>3297475
>Really aren't most Sonic games rather ironically not that enjoyable to speedrun
The only ones that seem to get the idea right are the Rush games, the trick/boost combo gameplay making for nervous, dynamic and satisfying speed oriented experiences.

[Anonymous No.3297535]

>>3297494
>any game that had any shred of verisimilitude or simulation before-hand,
If you're suggesting the barrel proves S3K was poorly thought out you're sorely mistaken. To the contrary, the barrel is the one thing that they arguably botched. That's why it stands out so much. Part of the reason it was so confounding for so many players is because in the other 95% of instances throughout the game new gimmicks and mechanics are so slickly introduced.

It doesn't matter if it's challenging or not. That isn't the point. The point is it's important to teach the player how shit works before thrusting them into the thick of things where they might get stuck for lack of understanding. Thus complaining about SOZ kicking off with a block-pushing tutorial is just dumb.

Also, I said arguably because I could argue the barrel wasn't a mistake at all and that it has been working as intended all along, that they meant to put it there and for people to get stuck in order to play a little sort of trick on the players. Now that might not fit in with the themes and conventions the franchise is known for; no, certainly not. But that's precisely why it fits in all the more with the whole of CNZ. Indeed, that entire level is in defiance of the norms of Sonic level design, not to mention thematically it's rather out of place among the other levels in the game. It could be that the barrel was intended as a puzzle. Why else would they have placed it inside a tiny room that you can't get out of after going in where there's nothing else to do but ride the barrel? Why else would they have made it mandatory that players enter the room and solve the barrel mystery in order to complete the level? Outside of glitches, there's no way around it. If the barrel was truly a mistake, it would have been an easily detectable, fucking huge one considering the team's standard, masterful level of level design skill.

[Anonymous No.3297596]

>>3297148
Anon you've just been tricked! Duped! Whatever you want to call it! Lmao!!

[Anonymous No.3298081]

Every level in every Genesis Sonic game is fun. They're just well-designed games.

[Anonymous No.3298092]

>>3295173
Marble Zone in Sonic 1.

[Anonymous No.3298098]

>>3295186

Certainly the point where the game starts getting a little harder. That being said, I really wouldn't consider too much of 3&K hard except for the death egg without super.

It could also just be that I've played it way too damn much.

[Anonymous No.3298102]

>>3298081
>Oil Ocean
>Metropolis
>Carnival Night
>Sandopolis
>fun

[Anonymous No.3298171]

>>3298102
>Oil Ocean
>Metropolis
>Not fun
>>3298092
I agree. I dig that zone a bunch, especially that one part with the gauntlet of bats, falling spike platforms, and the block platforms with retractable spikes on it all hovering over a previous part of the level with a bunch of lava.

[Anonymous No.3298197]

>>3298102
CN's fun.

[Anonymous No.3298271]

>>3298102

Correct. If you've played the games more than once, you should know those levels well enough to just be able to blast through them easily like any other level.

[Anonymous No.3298528]

>>3295179

[Anonymous No.3298561]

[Anonymous No.3298565]

>>3298561
mmmmm...i see links bussy

[Anonymous No.3298580]

>>3297535
S&K also lacks a conservation of momentum or realistic acceleration and velocity, it's all very digital and shitty and seems like shit if you're coming from any game with decent physics like Umihara Kawase or Sonic CD

I'm also not sure that there are any stages in S&K that don't have retarded one-shot gimmick devices like those stupid flipping platforms in the ice level or the idiotic handles you jump and grab in the shitty mushroom level that has all the awful colors

>Also, I said arguably because I could argue the barrel wasn't a mistake at all and that it has been working as intended all along, that they meant to put it there and for people to get stuck in order to play a little sort of trick on the players. Now that might not fit in with the themes and conventions the franchise is known for; no, certainly not. But that's precisely why it fits in all the more with the whole of CNZ. Indeed, that entire level is in defiance of the norms of Sonic level design, not to mention thematically it's rather out of place among the other levels in the game. It could be that the barrel was intended as a puzzle. Why else would they have placed it inside a tiny room that you can't get out of after going in where there's nothing else to do but ride the barrel? Why else would they have made it mandatory that players enter the room and solve the barrel mystery in order to complete the level? Outside of glitches, there's no way around it. If the barrel was truly a mistake, it would have been an easily detectable, fucking huge one considering the team's standard, masterful level of level design skill.

your argument is literally that they were just pretending to be retarded on purpose by designing shit levels intentionally, in which case no I don't really think they did have a masterful level of skill, I think they were imitating masters and failing miserably, inserting miserable little gimmicks to pad out the content

[Anonymous No.3298654]

>>3298102
Oil Ocean is actually one of my favorites. Why don't you like it?

[Anonymous No.3298721]

Metropolis Zone.

I love the obstacles and the god tier music.

[Anonymous No.3298747]

>>3298561
But it's tedious. I can hate tedium. Nobody LIKES tedium.

[Anonymous No.3298752]

>>3298102
>Oil Ocean
>Not Fun

Choose one

[Anonymous No.3298753]

The Castlevania stage before Death. Death's reputation is duly deserved as being pretty difficult, but the level before him really isn't. The reason the holy water multiplier strategy is so viable is because it's perfectly doable to one-life from the continue point. And you know what, the knight gauntlet is damn satisfying to beat. Oh, and in general, anything to do with the Medusa heads is not nearly as hard as Youtube tells us. Those sine wave gargoyles in CV3, that's more like it.

[Anonymous No.3299131]

>>3298753
>The Castlevania stage before Death. Death's reputation is duly deserved as being pretty difficult, but the level before him really isn't
Same shit, nothing that holy water can't fix.

[Anonymous No.3299178]

>>3295173
try that shit on the gamegear, then tell me this shit is good fuccboi, do it faggot, i dare you, i double dog dare your ass.

[Anonymous No.3299180]

>>3299178
Do you mean the Nomad?

[Anonymous No.3299237]

>>3296702
So where does Pumpkin Hill fit into the Sonic lore/setting? What is it supposed to be? A graveyard? The site of some battle? A leyline nexus that attracts/traps the souls of the dead? Does it have anything to do with that church?

Also, I get that the train is run by ghosts and the church is obviously a ruin, but what's with the giant jack-o'-lanterns? Why are those there? What are they? Also, why did anyone build a church on some high-up perilous spire that is so small that it can barely fit, and which even being able to reach requires the ability to either fly or climb IIRC?

[Anonymous No.3299625]

>>3298580
>>3298580
>I'm also not sure that there are any stages in S&K that don't have retarded one-shot gimmick devices like those stupid flipping platforms in the ice level or the idiotic handles you jump and grab in the shitty mushroom level that has all the awful colors
>retarded one-shot gimmicks
Or, you could stop being such an ungrateful twat and look at it the right way: "Wow, the devs went out of their way to create brand new gimmicks for each level, making each level unique and adding so much to the overall product." That's not a criticism.

I can understand not liking a particular gimmick, but you strike me as categorically opposed to gimmicks in games in general as if the whole mechanic itself is flawed. That means you're literally advocating for them to go away and think that games would be better off without such features; you're arguing that games should have less "game," less content. In case there's any confusion on your part as to where I'm going with all of this, basically that means you're retarded (okay, just kidding, you're probably not retarded and I don't have anything against you, nor do I mean to sound mean, but I couldn't resist because... well, funposting I guess).

>>3298580
>your argument is literally that they were just pretending to be retarded on purpose by designing shit levels intentionally, in which case no I don't really think they did have a masterful level of skill, I think they were imitating masters and failing miserably, inserting miserable little gimmicks to pad out the content
Triple strawman, doubly redundantly worded, wrong again anyway, 3&K/10 bait. If this is not bait, I would like to formally rescind my previous note about you not being a retard.

[Anonymous No.3299750]

>>3298102

Try playing Sonic Advance 3, it must fits to your shit taste

[Anonymous No.3299760]

>>3299625
Gimmicks are by definition unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.3299764]

>>3299625
Calling something a strawman is itself a strawman.

[Anonymous No.3299765]

>>3299760
Explain or else you are wrong.

>>3299764
Lol what?

[Anonymous No.3299779]

>>3299625
There is a difference between a gimmick and a feature. Nobody who played Umihara Kawase would call the fishing line a gimmick.

The problem with gimmicks is that they're designed to attract, and give the appearance of doing something interesting, instead of actually doing something that's meaningful. This is the videogame equivalent of fake tits that you can't rest your head on.

What matters is substance, meaning, purpose, it's about caring about doing something because it's worth doing.

Soinc & Knuckles is made the way it is because the people who made it didn't do it to make a good game. They did it to have the appearance of having made a good game and to justify the effort they put into it. The difference between the two cuts like a razor, a child from a loveless family is always dysfunctional.

Sonic & Knuckles is an unloved child.

[Anonymous No.3299792]

>>3299779
>Soinc & Knuckles is made the way it is because the people who made it didn't do it to make a good game. They did it to have the appearance of having made a good game and to justify the effort they put into it.
Allow me to debunk your conspiracy theory.

>>3299779
>There is a difference between a gimmick and a feature.
That's highly debatable, at least insofar as these concepts pertain to vidya. You do realize that when people speak of gimmicks in retro Sonic games they're not using the word literally, right? They use it to refer to things like the barrels in CNZ, or the spinning tops in MGZ, and even the spinning treadmills and conveyor belts in HCZ would probably qualify as examples, and there are plenty more. They are essentially game objects; that is, parts of their respective levels that are not merely background or foreground terrain; rather, they're parts of those things (mainly foreground) which add to the experience of traversing them.

You can't tell me those things aren't "features," because without them the game would indisputably be empiter, less packed with content. They literally are content. I'd argue that content, by definition, is a feature in any game. The reason such pieces of content are referred to as gimmicks is because that's a simple way to describe them, that's what they resemble, in some ways. So, in regards to our discussion, there literally is no difference between gimmicks and features. The gimmicks in question are both, simultaneously.

Do you realize how much extra work and additional programming it took to make the game's myriad of different gimmicks functional? To think the developers added them as an excuse for creating "actual content," whatever that is according to you, because they were too lazy and the process of doing that was easier than not, is simply ridiculous. These items don't just appear to have meaning, really do have it. Case in point, the CNZ barrel, is a perfect example.

[Anonymous No.3299794]

>>3299792
If the barrel was meaningless, it would never have had the capacity in the first place to become an issue to so many people.

[Anonymous No.3299803]

>>3299779
>Umihara Kawase
Furthermore, Umihara Kawase's fishing hook is more akin to Sonic's Spindash, because they are both player abilities. Why are you comparing that to objects that you come across while playing that are part of the level itself?

[Anonymous No.3299849]

[Anonymous No.3300356]

fuck the haters this shit gets me hype

[Anonymous No.3300672]

>>3300356
This is one of the only gameplay modes I've seen that has a "turn faster" button

shit's bizarre and you can barely win on hard mode without knowing about it