[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games

View post   
File: 51 KB, 320x240, UltimateDoom_title.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3269468 No.3269468 [Reply] [Original]

Why are Doom1 maps so superior to Doom2?
Almost every map in the original Doom is a masterpiece, it still hasn't been beaten in my experience.

>> No.3269483

>>3269468
>hasn't been beaten in my experience

Step up and git gud, fgt. Most of us 100%ed these in the 90's.

>> No.3269491

>>3269468
I'm with you on that one. Doom 2 has a lot of fucking weird ass maps. Even some of Doom 64's "WHERE THE FUCK DO I GO" maps aren't as bad.

>> No.3269492

>>3269483
Nice reading comprehension, champ.

>> No.3269494
File: 71 KB, 640x480, 1463782864750.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3269494

>>3269483
he doesn't mean beaten as in beating the game, he means that no other games have beaten the level design present in the original doom

>> No.3269495

>>3269491
>>3269492
>17:30:19

Aw shit nigga we posted at the same time! I will dedicate my first beer of the night to you. Cheers, anon.

>> No.3269497

>>3269492
Shit, I should probably have a coffee before I start posting. :^)

>> No.3269556

>>3269468
joel?

>> No.3269569
File: 1.89 MB, 286x202, 1463935722614.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3269569

>>3269483
fucking retard with piece of shit english

>> No.3269598

>>3269468
Doom II follows some sort of storyline, so you get construction zone, in the city, outskirts etc.

Doom I had the nicity of 3 (4) episodes which has a theme, so you could get 9 levels of one type which probably appealed more to you than 30 levels of the same

>> No.3269656

>>3269468
How are the quake 1 maps quality in comparison to doom 1/2?

>> No.3269809
File: 146 KB, 322x250, 1464831957192.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3269809

>>3269569
>piece of shit english

>> No.3269883

>>3269468
Doom 2 kind of improves on 1 and at the same time it fucks up in a lot of ways.

Doom 2 has some really great combat scenarios, but as far as map layouts go everything looks like cacodemon anus.

>> No.3270810

Doom 1 is too easy. Even 'Thy Flesh Consumed' is easy to me.

At least Doom 2 has some challenging levels. I remember some tough ones, like that one that starts you in a giant raised circle. Damn that level was tough.

>> No.3271726

They arent, both games are on par, why did that opinion suddenly get popular

>> No.3271734

>>3270810
Thy flesh consumed on UV always destroyed me

>> No.3271740

Because Doom 2 is full of fucking hidden monster rooms that open when you grab a key

>> No.3271745

>>3270810
>thinks Doom 2 is hard
>thinks E4 is easy

What the fuck am I reading?

>> No.3271758

>>3271745
Exactly my thoughts...
Level 1 and 2 alone of E4 can put you in an unwinnable position VERY fast. You are NEVER in any danger of that during Doom 2.

>> No.3271957

>>3269656
You know how Doom 1's episode 1 levels are very compact and have a more directed flow (except for E1M4) compared to most of the levels from the other episodes and especially compared to most of Doom II's levels? Quake's episode 1-3 levels all have that same compactness and tightness in flow. Episode 4 is where Petersen strikes again and you get maze-like maps like in Doom 1's episodes 2 and 3.

>> No.3271987

>>3269468
Just skip every level made by Sandy Petersen and it's good.

>> No.3271998

>>3271957
>>3271987
is there any kind of review thing for the individual levels? And what's with the hate for Petersen?

>> No.3272032

But they are not.

>> No.3272049

>>3269468
I always thought 2 was superior in every way?!

>> No.3272059

>>3272049
and 3 is even better

>> No.3272294

>>3271957
Personally, I love Episode 2 in Doom and Episode 4 in Quake

>> No.3272402

Because Romero was slacking off and too busy fucking around in his Ferrari and promoting the game rather than working on it, most of the level design work got given to Petersen out of necessity

>>3271998
He's not bad, but his maps tends to be more focused on realistic architecture/layout than being fun to play

>> No.3272636

>>3272402
>>3271957
Very interesting to know, thanks for the information. I only ask because I find Doom a bit boring in level design in comparison, but it might just be the dull textures that are uninteresting me

>> No.3272639

>>3272636
Quake*

>> No.3272702

>>3272402
>realistic architecture/layout
half the levels in doom 2 are just indiscernible nonsense. i think you're thinking of tnt

>> No.3273110

>>3272402
>Sandy Petersen
>focused on realistic architecture/layout
pick 1, doofus. More proof that Petersen haters don't have a goddamn clue. Petersen's style in a nutshell is M08: Tricks and Traps. He designed maps with a dungeon master sensibility, with traps and odd setups for the adventurer to overcome. Even his non-gimmicky Doom 1 maps show this style, and it's especially noticeable if you play something like E3M4 from a pistol start.

>> No.3273119

>>3271758
>be a kid played E4M1
>nearly dead at the end of the level
>start E4M2
>40 enemies with nowhere to hide
>rip

>> No.3273121

>>3269468

I personally prefer the maps in Doom 2 anyday.

>> No.3273138

Has anyone made a chart with who made what maps in Doom?

>> No.3273207

I just beat Doom 1 and 2 the other day for the first time and I find 1's level significantly better than 2.

2 had massive levels for the sake of having massive levels. In 1, I never truly felt lost and felt like I was making progress all the way through.

Whereas 1 had a great techbase feel in E1,the city levels in 2 felt nothing like a city. Just random buildings scattered around.

1 was tight and efficient, whereas 2 threw everything and the kitchen sink at you.

If it wasn't for the great variety of new enemies and the SSG, I would've said 2 was worse than 3

>> No.3273240

>>3272402
>Sandy Petersen
>his maps tends to be more focused on realistic architecture/layout

Err what? His maps were usually the most abstact and surreal out of any of the map designers. Part of why people don't like his city maps are precisely because they fail to have convincing city architecture.

>> No.3273247

>>3269468
I've always been of the opinion that Final Doom generally had better level design than Doom 2, and had far more interesting usage of the monsters.

I mean sure, there are duds like Metal and Habitat, but they were the exception, not the rule.

>> No.3273264

I dunno, I liked a lot of doom 2's maps, but didn't like how they weren't organized by episode like the original. It was sweet how each episodes' maps had a theme to them and that could've been done with doom 2. Put the military base maps into one ep, the outside \ earth maps in another.

>> No.3273376

>>3273119
...fucking triggered man. I still make that mistake now and again...E4M1 is where I do most of my restarts because I know I will die fast in the next level...

>> No.3273651

I personally prefer the original DOOM maps because they are more simple and more 'fun' in that I'm not getting lost and annoyed so much.

>> No.3273691

>>3273110
I like Doom 1s level design way more. I actually liked tricks and traps though. Pretty sure I hate every other map sandy worked on though. Did he do barrels of fun? cause I hated that shit. Suburb is fucking awful to but I have no idea who did that one.

>> No.3273867

>>3269483

this is how stupid "get gud" faggots are. off yourself you embarrassing autist.

>> No.3273964

>>3269468
I played this through on nightmare! (episode 1 - 3) without saving mid level and it was an absolute blast, especially episode 1. You really need to know the levels inside out.

>> No.3274020

>>3273247
TNT is underrated. I generally loved most of its maps. 1-6, 9-21, 23, 25-29 and 31-32 were all generally good fun for me. 27/32 maps

Where as Doom 2 its basically 1-6, 8, 10, 11, 14, 15, 17-20, and 26-29 for me. 19/32

>> No.3274065

>>3270810
What difficulty do you play? Because if you say anything other than Nightmare!, you have no business complaining about easiness.

'This game on a difficulty level that is not the hardest is not very hard'. No shit fucker.

>> No.3274086

>>3274020
19 / 32 is still most of the maps you mongaloid.

>> No.3274091

>>3273138

No, but:

E1M1 - E1M3: Romero
E1M4: Hall/Romero
E1M5 - E1M7: Romero
E1M8: Hall/Petersen
E1M9: Romero

E2M1-E2M4: Hall/Petersen
E2M5-E2M6: Petersen
E2M7: Hall/Petersen
E2M8-E2M9: Petersen

E3M1-E3M2: Petersen
E3M3: Hall/Petersen
E3M4-E3M6: Petersen
E3M7: Hall/Petersen
E3M8-E3M9: Petersen

E4M1: McGee
E4M2: Romero
E4M3: Green
E4M4: McGee
E4M5: Willits
E4M6: Romero
E4M7: Dr Sleep
E4M8: Green
E4M9: Willits

>> No.3274098

>>3274086
Thats very true. I should have worded "I loved most of its maps." as "I loved nearly of its maps."

>> No.3274102

>>3271998

Romero: Clean, elegant maps that make good use of space

Hall: A bunch of pseudo-realistic corridor mazes

Petersen: Guy that got hired on 10 weeks before Doom's completion and got stuck with having to redo Tom Hall's shitty levels and also had to design 20 levels with a level editor he had no idea how to use from scratch because Romero was a lazy twat.

>> No.3274357

>>3274098
I loved nearly all of its maps*

Only just noticed this

>> No.3274395

>>3271998

There was a thread in the Doomworld forums where people who had recently replayed Doom made brief reviews of every single level in the game:

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/66403-the-dwmegawad-club-plays-ultimate-doom/

>> No.3274475
File: 111 KB, 180x180, 1462502570048.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3274475

>>3271734
>second level of TFC
>have to get past cyberdemon on a ledge over lava that I need to pass
>run out of ammo, never had that much in the first place because only second level of episode

>> No.3274485

>>3274475
Theres a teleporter that lets you telefrag the cyber

>> No.3274631

Mock2.wad for Doom II is the ultimate Doom experience anyways.

>> No.3274667

>>3273119

There is health nearby and weapons nearby the starting point.

You guys are fucking casuals on here.

Doom 1 = easy as fuck.
Doom 2 = moderately challenging at times.

I've beaten all the official Doom games even the lost levels and Plutonia. Maybe that is why I find the early games easy.

>> No.3274680

>>3274667
WOW! It's almost as if having the entire fucking engine's Doom games under your belt makes you GOOD at it or something!

>> No.3275302

>>3269468
TOP 3 MEGAWADS GO GO GO!

>> No.3276626

>>3275302
Eternal Doom
Icarus
Memento Mori

I miss the variety that megawads had in the 90's. Most levels generally stood out to me, even if they werent the best, because the mapper often did something unique or interesting with it. And people generally weren't afraid to include puzzles and take risks.

Modern megawads almost always feel like every map is made to imitate a "tried and true" style of stuff like Scythe 2 to play it safe. Just leads to a lot of maps that are samey and blur together.

>> No.3276775

>>3270810
>>3271745
>>3271734
>>3274475
>>3274065
>>3274667
I respect Plutonia's difficulty more than TFCs

Plutonia is hard because the authors actually designed the levels with challenging gameplay in mind, so its traps and monster usage feels more thoughtful and organic.

TFC's couple of hard maps are just hard because "lol no medkits", "lol cacodemon/baron spam", and "lol damaging floors everywhere". It feels lazy and lacks polish.

>> No.3276853
File: 96 KB, 960x720, d11m.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3276853

>>3274091
Okay so... Romero has gotten well deserved praise and Petersen fucking sucks.

>> No.3277030

>>3276853
The point is if you don't like Petersen, you don't like most of Doom 1 either. You only like E1, and there are at least that many good levels in Doom 2.

>> No.3277059

>>3269468

John Romero worked around the clock for Doom 1, and slacked off on the gravy train for Doom 2.

>> No.3277063

>>3274102

But Petersen made the maps for E4 of Quake, and people hated those too.

>> No.3277258

>>3269468
I just played through Doom 1 for the first time ever. I know, pretty late to the party, but regardless, it's one of the best games I've ever played.

Was I just being sloppy, or is there actually no chainsaw in Inferno until Mount Erebus? Inferno was overall my favorite episode, but there was a distinct lack of ripping and tearing in it.

>> No.3277870

>>3277258
There's actually one on E3M5. But yeah, chainsaw is oddly late in Episode 3.

>> No.3278162

>>3277063
IMO, his Quake E4 maps were actually pretty interesting to play.

>> No.3278456

You have a fucking containment thread for this shit, go there

>> No.3278497

>>3269468
I don't know if anyone else had this feeling while playing Doom I, but it's like the game is heavily geared towards one-on-one combat. You crowd-control lesser demons, but big guys are almost always alone, two of them max or they have a small posse. And the corridors, the angles, everything is there for you to snipe the fuckers, outsmart them and all. Doom II has cunting goddamn SPAM everywhere. Oh, yeah, here's a ton of ammo for BFG, don't forget to kill that new batch of Mancubi with it. I've lost all respect for Doom II on that tiny map with 8 Mancubi and 10 or 12 lesser spiders. Just why?

>> No.3278956

>>3277870
Ah, okay. Guess I missed it. I missed a lot of secrets in that level.

Thankfully, most levels in Inferno give you Berserk, so it's not really a huge deal. It's still the best episode.