/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3255384]

Is it okay to talk the entire Wipeout series here?
I don't really wanna ask the shithole that is /v/ and I'm interested in getting into it.
I'm F-Zero fan basically forever and love futuristic racers in general. But I was a Nintendo kid, and I never really had the opportunity to try Wipeout.

So basically: Which ones can you recommend? I have a N64 and PS2 (the only two systems I own that had Wipeouts, but I could emulate the rest).

F-Zero Fanboys can please keep quiet. I already love F-Zero and played all of them. This thread is for Wipeout.

[Anonymous No.3255406]

enjoy your f-zero thread

[Anonymous No.3255453]

>>3255384
Just buy one of each (ps1 and n64) versions.

[Anonymous No.3256353]

>>3255384
>a wipeout thread
>with only 2 replies
let me fix this for you OP.
First of all, basically every game in the retro "old trilogy" is worth playing. 1 is worth playing just to see how it started, but the game itself is a bit clunky. 2097 and 3 improve massively.
2097 is the fan favorite, you can't go wrong starting there.
3 is also loved, but there are two versions that fans dispute over. The regular edition has 8 tracks, but the european special edition adds 8 more from wipeout 1 and 2, along with tweaked ship handling, and some minor stat changes for qirex and icarus to fit with the new physics.
You'll have to try both out for yourself. I prefer the SE physics (which are in this webm) but the remade tracks aren't great as they really fucked with the lightning of the 2097 ones, and some people don't like the SE version physics.
Wipeout 64 is basically WipEout 2097.5. It's worth playing as well.

There is only one actual PS2 wipeout game, which is fusion. It's good, but a black sheep for being extremely different from the PS1 games. Go into with an open mind, because it is nothing like any other wipeout game in any sense. There is also a PS2 port of wipeout pulse, which brings me to the PSP games.

These PSP games are by and large, optional. Pure was the first one, which has way more content than pulse, the other PSP counterpart. But it was really shite handling, and feels too slow. A PS3 re-make called WipEout HD/Fury is basically the two PSP games put together, and is without a doubt the greatest non-retro wipeout game.

Then there is 2048.
Don't play that one.

[Anonymous No.3256362]

>>3256353
forgot to mention, since the SE edition is yurope only, I hope you like 25fps.

[Anonymous No.3256369]

>>3256353
>Hit the nail on the head the post
Ggooddd post anon... Baja

Really though this post is truth. If you can, play wipeout HD so you can play online. It's a really great game. For the retro games I like wipeout 3 se and I keep it on my phone to play at work.

[Anonymous No.3256385]

>>3256362
>I hope you like 25fps.
C I N E M A T I C

[Anonymous No.3256387]

My favorite futuristic racer ever.

Bought a PS1 back in the day just to play XL/2097. Also got me into "electronica."

[Anonymous No.3256406]

Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0e8ZMVqVCc

[Anonymous No.3256430]

>>3256385
Rather because of the fact pal is 50hz so you can have a max of 50fps and with a game ported from ntsc 30fps becomes 25. In return you have a higher resolution.

[Anonymous No.3256702]

>>3256362
You know, I'm curious -- how does one really get to grips with cornering in the classic Wipeouts? Do you need to start airbraking really early? I'm really bad, and don't really know where to start with getting better.

[Anonymous No.3256709]

>>3256430
Is there no 60 fps PSX game?

[Anonymous No.3256724]

>>3256709
nah, there's a tiny handful (on NTSC machines)
my favorite 3D one was a Net Yaroze game called Hover Racing that's kind of like a classic F-Zero clone with weird controls
surprisingly polished and looks pretty decent despite the fact that it's got fuck-all of a polygon budget to work with

[Anonymous No.3256726]

>>3256709
The psx has the most 3d 60fps games out of it's gen. Ridge Racer Type 4 is especially impressive besides that almost every fighter on the system is 60fps.

[Anonymous No.3256731]

For what it's worth, Wipeout HD and Fury are fucking awesome. Probably worth picking up a PS3 for alone. Perhaps some purists can raise some complaints, but they were everything I could ask for.

[Anonymous No.3256734]

>>3256709
most fightans
internal section is 60fps 480i

[Anonymous No.3256735]

>>3256702
Wipeout 1 is kind of a special case from the other two games, it's a lot stricter and walls slow you down a lot more in my experience.

[Anonymous No.3256737]

>>3255384
Sorry for talking about F-zero, but are there any games that have the same boost mechanic from X? Specifically sapping the power of your vehicle as you boost. Any racing game or wipeout that shares that mechanic?

[Anonymous No.3256751]

>>3256702
Do you mean classic as in 1, or just the ps1 games?
Because in 1 shit is just hard. Handling wasn't perfected.
In 2 and 3, phantom speed becomes a problem for players that are to used to the modern wipeout engine.
That's my main gripe with HD, every turn needs airbrakes, especially at phantom. Your airbrakes are basically your regular turn.
In the original trilogy, airbrakes need to be used much more liberally. Anything below rapier and you don't need any airbrakes at all. There even plenty of courses on phantom that do not require airbrakes. One is on manor top, which I'll post in a bit.
Essentially, you are also right. When you do have to use airbrakes, they should be used before you turn, not while you turn. They should really only be tapped to, not smashed and held down for the entire length of the turn. Again, they should be used liberally. The better handling your craft, the less you need to use them. An assegai can probably get through this whole section with 0 airbraking.

[Anonymous No.3256758]

>>3256751
I love that shit, anon. Feel free to post as many webms as you like.

[Anonymous No.3256764]

>>3256751
This webm here, at the turn of 0:04. I do airbrake a little bit, but notice when the ship kind of turns in weirdly is the only times I airbrake, and even then it's just small taps to keep the craft in line.
>>3256737
WipEout 3 rips this mechanic out entirely, but it's pretty much entirely optional and not really required like it is in F-zero.
If you want something non-retro, Fast Racing Neo has a mode similar to this called Hero Mode. I'd have webms of it to, if I was willing to pay 200 dollars for a goddamn capture card.
And I'm not.
>>3256731
Nah, I consider myself a pretty big purist when it comes to WipEout and I like the classic physics more, but there is no denying that HD was a good game.

[Anonymous No.3256772]

>>3256353
>Don't play that one.
Really? I heard good things about 2048. If that's the case then it's sad to see them leave the series on a low note.

[Anonymous No.3256786]

>>3256772
Definitely an inferior version of HD. Wider tracks for that "wider audience", stupid prototype ships idea, more focus on weaponry, OP shields this time around IIRC, 30fps unlike HD, not nearly as good of a soundtrack of HD, and even then I consider HD's OST to be one of it's weakest points, and overall feels a bit slower.
I guess it's still worth a playthrough and it's good to kill time on the go, but I wasn't to happy the series ended with it.
Plus on top of all that, it fucks with the surprisingly deep and convoluted wipeout lore, if anyone cares.

[Anonymous No.3256892]

>>3256772
>>3256786

2048 is pretty tight. I love pure and pulse but 2048 was a great entry in the portable series. Only thing I didn't like was the lack of a racebox. You only race through a pretty linear bracket, and yes it does pretty much shit on the timeline structure of the original game's, however when it comes down to wipeout I really only pay attention to the badass futuristic tracks, bitchin ships, heart pounding techno and the white knuckle twists and turns and this game has alot of that still.

Anyone play the original with a negcon?? I'm interested

[Anonymous No.3257347]

>>3256709
gran turismo unlocks a 60 fps time trial mode with a few tracks when you beat the game.

[Anonymous No.3257675]

>>3256353
OP here. Awesome reply, thank you, Anon.

So Wipeout essentially is a bit like F-Zero? The home console main series is a must and the portables are optional?

Also thanks for the awesome webms.

>>3256731
Fury is the DLC addon to HD, right? Is it still available?

>>3256786
I came across the lore while looking into the games. was pleasantly surprised. Its like an early 2000s SciFi movie (kinda makes it ahead of its time, doesn't it?).
I just love it when games do this. it increases the enjoyment of the game immensely for me. Does anyone else feel like this?

[Anonymous No.3257678]

>Not building the track 300m above the ground

Dammit Wipeout, why u no learn from F-Zero? :')

[Anonymous No.3257732]

>>3256786
Choked pretty hard at 0:08 but wow was that 0:27 bounce good to watch.

[Anonymous No.3257759]

i remember this game was the shit when psx was still current. nowadays people are really sleeping on it. good ass game tho.

[Anonymous No.3257789]

>>3257678
The "Sol" track are floating in air as a demonstration of how far anti-grav tech has gone in the games setting.

[Anonymous No.3258079]

>>3257732
It may look like I choked, but that is just a thing that happens on that ramp when you go too fast. I wasn't slowing down on purpose. I'm not sure what causes it and I'm sure there is a way to stop that from happening.
Only time I've choked is at >>3256362 at 0:15. to make that hard left turn I let off the accelerator and then apply it again after I finish the turn going into the tunnel, but I make that turn 1/60 times and it's one of the hardest turns to make in the game with that ship, so I panicked and didn't apply any speed until 0:18. It's why my time was 28 seconds instead of the 24 that I planned, and it still makes me mad to this day.
Also, no webm because I'm on a different computer. I might post more if you guys want when I get off this laptop.
Seriously, fuck that turn on Spilskinanke. I had the whole lap perfected within 5 days of practice, and I spent twice as much time using savestates to get that one goddamn fucking turn down.

[Anonymous No.3258565]

>>3258079
I'll post one more, partially as a bump and partially to make up for the one I didn't post.

[Anonymous No.3259223]

>>3258079
>I'm not sure what causes it and I'm sure there is a way to stop that from happening.

You do know you can steer up and down right? I'm not even the same league as you are and I can get the most out of any surface and easily bypass most turns, things that you don't seem to do because it makes you go faster? Or something. I hope I'm wrong.

[Anonymous No.3259478]

>>3259223
This webm was made a good while ago, but I definitely know how to pitch shift. IIRC I remember not even pointing the ship as far up as I can could get me over the ramp, piranha is just too fast.
But just to make sure, I'll go back into the game and try it out myself. Give me a couple minutes.

[Anonymous No.3259539]

>>3256764
I was planning on picking up Neo sometime soon, I guess this sticks it at the top of my to buy list. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.3259559]

>>3259478
Alright so I am retarded, I thought you were talking about the jump at 0:20 for some reason.
The ramp at 0:08 is different. What I do there is on purpose for two reasons.
One is that pulling up on the stick is incredibely hard to do in that tight spot, especially after making such a tight corner and trying to space yourself for the next tight corner up above. The piranha is VERY finnicky.
The second is that even if I do make the pitch-up, which I do in this webm, and make the turn after, there is almost no way you can pitch-down in time to not hit the massive hitboxes above the track. I'm sure it's possible, but it would probably be dam near frame-perfect.
I still didn't do it correctly in the webm of my perfect lap, I usually don't lose that much speed, but since I finally got a perfect lap I figured that it's not worth going through more work to get another webm of it.
>>3259539
It's worth the twenty dollars that's for sure. Remember though that only Hero mode has this f-zero mechanic, in the regular campaign it's just a boost bar.

[Anonymous No.3260864]

>>3255406
Very well! Does anyone happen to know an F-zero style game for Mega Drive?

>>3256353
>2097 is the fan favorite, you can't go wrong starting there.
Just the PS1 version? I'm guessing the Saturn port couldn't compare, but what about the windows ports? I guess with that there's also the question of the alternate soundtrack.

[Anonymous No.3260902]

>>3260864
I'm not to su

[Anonymous No.3260914]

>>3260864
I'm not to sure about the saturn port, I don't know too much about it. The PC port has an engine problem where is just runs too fast, not sure if there is a patch to fix it or not.
If you own a saturn or ps1, then it would be easiest to use those respectively. Otherwise, emulate ps1.

[Anonymous No.3260926]

>>3256353
>But it was really shite handling
it doesn't, the handling is just more floaty a-la WP3:SE

[Anonymous No.3260937]

>>3260926
I don't think it retains that floaty feel of SE at all. None of the modern wipeout airbrake systems were really able to recreate anything from the PS1 games, especially pure which I felt was more clunky and slow than anything else.
Turns like this are things that just will not happen in pure.
Pulse was a pretty big improvement in that regard.

[Anonymous No.3261000]

>>3260914
Sounds like patches would be the key thing to want for the PC version, though it probably wouldn't be straightforward at all to pull in any tracks or anything from wipeout 3. Only thing, aside from the 4 player mode and smoother graphics maybe.

[Anonymous No.3261076]

WP1
>pros
- first game in the series
- GOAT OST

>cons
- trash physics (touching the walls is enough for your craft to go barrel rolling)
- outclassed by the sequels

WP2097
>pros
- improves on the flaws of the first game
- tighter controls and physics

>cons
- track design can get janky at times (on the bright side this allows for some awesome game breaks on higher level play)

WPN64
>pros
- the HD to 2097's Pulse, with:
- sharper N64 graphics
- cool new weapons
- the first and only /vr/ WP game in which the AI is capable of using the quake and health absorb weapons

>cons
- tracks get glitchy at times
- so do physics
- it's on the N64

WP3
>pros
- great soundtrack
- best graphics from all the /vr/ games
- best style from all WP games in general, courtesy of The Designers Republic

>cons
- weapons are a huge downgrade from 2097/N64, too much focus on defense and disappointing weapons for offense
- the NA version is like a beta version of the game. the PAL and JP versions improve on certain errors from the NA version (+ the JP version adds 2 bonus prototype tracks), at the expense of making eliminator mode multiplayer-only (the NA version has the eliminator mode available as single-player)

WP3:SE
>pros
- adds 8 tracks from the previous titles (making this the best way to play the WP1 tracks) and the 2 JP bonus prototype tracks
- numerous additional fixes such as better AI and save autoloads

>cons
- floatier physics, which are love it or hate it
- being based on the later revision, eliminator mode is multiplayer-only
- lower framerate due to being PAL

[Anonymous No.3261078]

>>3255384
tldr play Wipeout XL (called 2097 for PAL) for Playstation

[Anonymous No.3261080]

>>3261076
WPF
>pros
- great soundtrack

>cons
- if WP3 was too defensive, Fusion is WAY too offensive
- track design is way too aggressive, to an absolute bullshit degree
- ship and weapons upgrades akin to car tunings in traditional racing sims, which doesn't suit WP at all
- disappointing new style that's a massive departure from TDR's futurist-minimalist style. the race team representing the new design studio is considered the worst race team in all WP games

Pure
>pros
- return to the pure and classic style of WP racing after the clusterfuck that was Fusion
- EU version has enormous (free!) DLC content, making Pure the handheld WP game with the most content
- style that is inspired by The Designers Republic

>cons
- floaty physics, which yet again are love it or hate it
- being a "reboot" of the series if you will, it is much easier than any of the previous entries

Pulse
>pros
- some of the best graphics the PSP has to offer
- tight physics are back again, tighter than ever before
- allows the creation of custom soundtracks with music of your personal choosing if you're not comfortable with the default soundtrack

>cons
- not even the Aphex Twin track can save the Pulse default soundtrack from being a disappointment

HD/Fury
>pros
- an update to Pulse that collects some the best tracks from the 2 handheld games
- updated new graphics, some of the best on the PS3 (colorful sci-fi visuals >>>>>> muh realistic FPS jungles and cityscapes)
- Zone mode is GOATYAY

>cons
- even more disappointing default soundtrack

2048
>pros
- DLC that brings HD/Fury right to your portable Vita
- surprisingly decent gameplay for a 30 FPS game
- great graphics

>cons
- 30 FPS
- huge clashes with the game's established canon
- incompatible with the PSTV
- janky ship balance
- meh soundtrack, yet again
- wide track design instead of the tight tracks that the WP games are most well-known for

[Anonymous No.3261126]

It's so disappointing that Wipeout is finished. I'm still playing HD & only relatively recently I got a Vita & am getting in to 2048, although for some reason I just can't get the feel right.

Closest modern thing to Wipeout I've come across is Grip, which is still in EA. Hopefully it triggers a revival of futuristic combat racing.

[Anonymous No.3261128]

>>3261126
2048 is 30 fps, Vita buttons are tiny, and tracks have city based textures that are too busy and blend into each other too much. As someone who platinumed Wipeout HD Fury twice, navigating 2048's subway system made me feel like a complete retard.

[Anonymous No.3261142]

>>3256751
>missing all those blue things

damn u suck

[Anonymous No.3261171]

>>3261128

Yeah, it definitely feels too busy. It'd probably be ok on a big screen.

They should have probably gone for a more minimal design & done away with the silly combat modes. They're really spoiling it for me atm.

[Anonymous No.3261173]

The >30fps argument is silly as every wipeout with the exception of HD was 30fps

[Anonymous No.3261223]

>>3261171
They can't do minimal design because it's part of the canon. Well I mean yes there's always that artistic wiggle room but during that moment, the studio was already thinned out.

>>3261173
Pulse was 60, although my gut tells me that differs if you had a PSP 1000.

[Anonymous No.3261281]

>>3257675

>So Wipeout essentially is a bit like F-Zero? The home console main series is a must and the portables are optional?
Pulse and Pure are fine games, it's just that HD Fury is clearly a straight upgrade.

[Anonymous No.3261308]

>>3261223
>Pulse was 60, although my gut tells me that differs if you had a PSP 1000.
You can make it 60fps with cfw overclocking. The game was developed most likely before sony decided on the guidelines that the superior clock speed of new psp models can't be utilized to not form performance disparity. The devs put in a clock speed detection check that switches the game speed though it can't be accesed without cfw.

[Anonymous No.3261362]

the future is euro.

[Anonymous No.3261432]

>>3261362
RACE FOR E-UNITY!

[Anonymous No.3261464]

>>3261362
Let's be friends.
>>3261142
I know, here have a re-do with more pads and an icarus instead of a qirex.

[Anonymous No.3261523]

>tfw can probably pilot each ship competently and react in time
>get easily excited by fast/surpassing other people
>forget what I was doing and bump the fuck out of everywhere

[Anonymous No.3261619]

>>3261523
Basically, the high speed classes will melt your brain, like me playing XL's Phantom Challenge II where I have to beat Spilskinanke with Piranha.

[Anonymous No.3263887]

I want to play a wipeout game set in the very beginning of the timeline. I want to race janky ugly barely team recognizable antigravity monsters. I want to be the tester of "new" weapons in both giving and receiving.

I want to work through the game and for the first time actually become attached to the team I'm racing for.

Wipeout: Beginnings

[Anonymous No.3266659]

bump

[Anonymous No.3266771]

>>3261464

I practice everyday. I want to get to this guys level, but I think I'm capped because of my reflexes.

Curious how long it took to get so good?

[Anonymous No.3266942]

>>3266771
I played these games when I was a kid, but I've been seriously playing the original trilogy for about 3 to 4 years on-and-off.
Wipeout is less about reflexes and much, MUCH more about track knowledge and ship knowledge. Tracks in wipeout are hard and aren't afraid to throw blind/sharp corners at you, but once you know where everything is, it all becomes muscle memory.
Knowing how the physics work is the absolute most important thing. When to apply airbrakes, how to apply them, and where to apply them, is something not only extremely important to learn but also varies from ship to ship. It's all just a matter of practice, I'm total shite at any FPS, especially multiplayer, reflexes are helpful in wipeout but not essential.
Personally, I would reccomend looking into reverse/opposite airbraking if you haven't already. You probably already do it instinctively at times but it's worth knowing about.

[Anonymous No.3266982]

>>3266942

Thanks! I'm having trouble finding anything about reverse/opposite air braking. Can you link an article or video? I'm curious now. Want to be at a reasonable level for when Formula Fusion really kicks off. :)

[Anonymous No.3267038]

>>3266982
I'm surprised there isn't any stuff on it. Maybe people call it by a different name.
Basically it's just airbraking in the opposite direction of a turn to balance yourself. This is usually to counter-act heavy airbraking when making sharper turns. This can be used to prevent yourself from hitting the inner wall of a turn, or to set yourself up for the next turn.
Again, you probably do it instinctively at times or even already know this tactic, but it's important to actually understand. A quick google search led to a Something Awful thread, that surprisingly has an okay explanation.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3571209#post420120251
Just ctrl+f for "opposite" and you should be able to find it.
I also made a quick webm showing off opposite braking, as hi-fumi is filled with corners that need it.

[Anonymous No.3267061]

>>3267038

Very helpful! Thank you :)
Going to practice this now.

I think I read something on the Wipeout forum about this causing a speed boost, and SL patched the game to stop it.