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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3229443 No.3229443 [Reply] [Original]

Reminder that Sonic 2 is a bad game

>> No.3229449
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3229449

>any Sonic game
>deep

>> No.3229453
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3229453

>deep

>> No.3229456

>>3229443
I don't get it. They fixed the one problem the first game had. And made a bigger game. Why so salty?

>> No.3229458

>>3229443
that is a good point. but..

sonic 2 music/stages/graphics > sonic 1

sonic 1's bonus stage is way better though

>> No.3229468

>>3229456
>They fixed the one problem the first game had.

But it's not a problem. It's like saying regenerating health "fixed the one problem" old FPS games had

>> No.3229536

>IMO

fix'd

>> No.3229605

>>3229468

"gaining and utilizing momentum"

Where exactly? The game's level design never called for you to build it up or required you to use that speed to get through barriers or obstacles.

The game utilized its physics for spectacle reasons.

>> No.3229616

>>3229468
That's not the same thing at all retard

>> No.3229634

>>3229443
>Sonic 2 zone 1
>Go fast and utilize momentum
>Sonic 1 zone 1
>Go fast and utilize momentum

>Sonic 2 zone 2
>Go fast and utilize momentum
Sonic 1 zone 2
>PUSH BLOCKS AND RIDE SLOWLY ACROSS LAVA

>Sonic 2 underwater segments
>Optional if you're good enough to stay above water
>Sonic 1 underwater segments
>Mandatory and slow

Sonic 2 is the better game.

>> No.3231061

>>3229443
Deep? How it was deep? How did you really utilize your momentum in any meaningful way?

Were there any enemies that behaved differently depending on your speed? Were there any hazards that required you to have specific momentum? Were there any special moves that required you to use your momentum.

The answer is "no" and "Mario did all of those things, bitch".

Mario is the superior platformer about utilizing your momentum, and with Tanuki suit and Cape upgrades, it makes using your momentum a crucial part of the gameplay.

Sonic was at its best with some light momentum challenges but otherwise giving you freedom to go fast - otherwise superior way to play Sonic 1 was to go SLOW, because you lost all your momentum when hitting an enemy, so it was very punishing. Sonic 2 fixed that.

Neither of games are deep, and are very hold-right-to-win easy. That is not necessarily a BAD thing, being casual (the dreaded buzzword!) is probably how they gained their popularity - they're fast, fun, easy to beat, but it might be the first game that encourages you to speedrun by having a detailed timer that counts UP instead of DOWN, in human-readable numbers of seconds and minutes, and having lots of different paths and secrets. Knowledge of the level is probably the only real depth in Sonic.

>> No.3231070

>>3229468
But regenerating health does fix problem old FPS games had. No, not Doom - but Half Life, Medal of Honor, Sin, Kingpin, Soldier of Fortune - in the late 90s, FPS games try to be more "realistic" and use more enemies with hitscan guns, because of using more grounded settings.

Which means that you can't avoid getting hit just by walking around - getting hit is no longer punishment for failure, it's now just a thing that happens - like, is this even possible to get through all of the HECU encounters in Half Life without a scratch and without savescumming with mines? Not really, you will get hit, and that's bad.

You can fix it either by going the Deus Ex route and turning your game into a very tactical stealth-action game about carefully aiming headshots, but that won't work for every game.

You can drop medkits every five steps but then everything you do feels pointless. D44m does something interesting by allowing player to make their own medkit drops with glory kills, which doesn't feel pointless (though there is no hitscan enemies in it, AFAIK?)

So, the other way is to completly change how health works. Make loss of health completely inconsequential in the long run, which also allows you to give enemies extremely deadly weapons that can kill you in a second or in one shot, like grenades.

The problem is, that modern games overuse this model, and also combine it with "tactical" cover-stealth gameplay, which is stupid - basically they use it because all modern games do, not because it fits.

But yeah, regenerating health/shields IS a smart thing.

>> No.3231072

>implying

>> No.3231091

I like Sonic 2 just for the Chemical Plant zones.

>> No.3231097

>>3229449
>>3229605
you faggots realize that levels in Sonic games are timed and ranked based on speed and rings collected right? the goal is to beat each stage faster than the last time you beat it, not just to beat it.

try getting a good time, then you'll understand the depth.

>> No.3231114

>>3231097
I don't recall the original games being ranked at all.

>> No.3231192
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3231192

>>3229449
>>3229453
I was feeling left out.

>> No.3231205

>>3229443
I wouldn't say that Sonic 1 is a "deep" platformer, but it doesn't have the most actual platforming out of the original 2D Sonic games.

>> No.3231227

I don't understand why people argue over this.

All the Genesis Sonic games are good and each people have their favorites.

Personally its 2 > 3nK > 1 for me. 3 would be best but I can play through 2 the fastest.

>> No.3231330

>>3229634
>PUSH BLOCKS AND RIDE SLOWLY ACROSS LAVA

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

>> No.3232364

>>3229443
Are they taking the piss out of Nintendo by constantly repeating super on the back of the box?

>> No.3232374

>>3231061
Hi Rich Evans.

>> No.3232412

>>3232364
Thats pretty funny
Sega made Super Hang on in 89 before super nintendo was a thing

>> No.3232604

>>3231061
>Were there any enemies that behaved differently depending on your speed? Were there any hazards that required you to have specific momentum? Were there any special moves that required you to use your momentum.
Yes, yes, and yes.

You clearly didn't even play the game, especially not when it was in its prime. You sound like a Nintendrone/Mario fanboy. You really believe you've got it all figured out when it comes to vidya. But that's just because you are a fool. You know nothing, idiot.

>> No.3232770

>>3229634
/thread

>> No.3232840

>>3232770
>>3229634
>>Sonic 2 underwater segments
>>Optional
Technically true, but for the vast majority of players, kids in the 90's, they may as well not have been.

Your whole argument is that Sonic 2 is more refined, basically. It is also bigger, having more features like more alternate routes.

No argument there, isn't that what we all expect to see happen over the life of a franchise? I'm skeptical of your method of analysis which you cite as proof that 2 is better. Just because something is more refined doesn't always have to rule out the possibility it may be, overall, worse.

>> No.3232875

>>3229443
I tried playing through Sonic 2 and found myself getting really frustrated over and over because it just kept fucking me up.

I hope Sonic 3 is better.

>> No.3232980

>>3232875
Wow really? I thought 2 was the easy one. At least until the end