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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3172236 No.3172236 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Why did one of the best genres, belt scrollers, have to die off, /vr/?

>> No.3172250


this level was retarded why was there an alien and a donut steel Blanka rip off in the middle of an amusement park

>> No.3172258

it's a spook house that turned out to be a legit alien hideout

>> No.3172275

It was one of my favourite genres too along with run and gun.

Lack of creativity is probably the answer. Unless you consider games like devil may cry and god of war as the evolution of the genre.

>> No.3172294

Belt scrolling is alive!

I'm currently making a Belt Scrollerâ„¢ / skateboarding game (like 720) hybrid

/vr/ should love it. I'm crafting it with love.

>> No.3172307

DMC style hack 'n' slash is shit.

>> No.3172317

I think those are called stylish/character-action games.

>> No.3172325

I only played a bit of DMC3 and it wasn't my cup of tea either. The character being an edgy teen also didn't help.

>> No.3172330


They're the natural evolution of the genre into 3D, I think.
It has crowd management and stuff. But it's still like comparing a 2D platformer to a 3D one in terms of actual gameplay.

I love DMC (1 and 3), and Bayonetta was probably my favorite game during 7th gen. Never could get into God of War though, feels a bit boring.

The Yakuza games could also be considered sort of 3D beat 'em ups, in fact they take a lot of elements from the Dynamite Deka series which was one of the first 3D beat 'em ups made by Sega. Though Yakuza also has RPG/adventure elements.

>> No.3172332

You mean love love, or love the game engine

>> No.3172339

Any of those have co-op? Signature feature of the genre for me probably

>> No.3172340

I think God Hand was a great update of the genre.
Wish there was something more out in that style.

>> No.3172346
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>> No.3172352

Walky punchies is a good genre, the only problem is that there are less quality titles than other popular genres like fighting games or shmucks.

>> No.3172354

The kinda love grandma puts into every cookie.

>> No.3172367

No, no co-op. I agree with you. Final Fight for SNES was a big disappointment for me because of it.

>> No.3172385
File: 664 KB, 253x200, 1460066549271.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


Thanks anon, will play asap.

>> No.3172416

>belt scrollers

Who uses this term?

>> No.3172424

Well, it's an arcade exclusive that was never ported to any home system.

>> No.3172456

>belt scroller

>> No.3172483

Same people that call shooters STG's.

>> No.3172507

I'd argue that the closest thing to a 3D transition of the genre is God Hand. I see a lot of similarities to Final Fight, and the gameplay is pretty similar (keep enemies in front of you, use effective attacks to keep enemies down).

>> No.3172519
File: 3.23 MB, 3664x4328, choose your character.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.3172527
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The proper term is strolling donnybrooks.

>> No.3172539

>no Punisher
>no Die Hard Arcade

And for that matter you could also include God Hand, though sadly it is single player only (also not retro).

>> No.3172592

didnt die. try dragons crown

>> No.3172594

I agree. God Hand for me is an Ode to Beat' em up nostalgia.

It had everything: food, classic beat em up weapons, classic enemies (female dominatrix, small annoying guys, fat guys, tall guys, regular punks).

Full combat customization, dynamic difficulty adjustment, enemies taunting you quoting mike tyson (you're no alexander), cool soundtrack, funny special moves.

My only gripe with it was the button mashing QTE, got tiring pretty fast.

Co-op was also forgotten like somebody already said.

>> No.3172601

Meh, only casuals play beat 'em ups co-op anyways.

>> No.3172604

>implying beat em ups aren't the most fun with friends
Seems like you never played at an arcade before.

>> No.3172614

What would where you play the games at matter?

>> No.3172634

I liked Charlie Murder

>> No.3172635

Classic-style pacing pugilists are still around. There are a number of indie titles and a few are even okay. Big-name developers have sadly largely moved on to stylish slashers and hack 'n slash, but that's what happens when video games get more and more removed from their arcade roots.

>> No.3172829

No Zombie Revenge?

>> No.3172838

Its sad Capcom killed Clover. I really wanted more Okami and God Hand.

>> No.3172869

If you only ever played at home it's more likely you played alone than if you were at an arcade where anybody could walk up and join you

>> No.3172884
File: 198 KB, 552x552, 1458871976.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Double Dragon 30th Anniversary Reboot by ASW when?

>> No.3172891
File: 117 KB, 550x542, Rash.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


It's ripe for rebooting, they can do it if they're smart about it.

The biggest hurdle is making the game feel as streamlined and simple as these older games with a higher depth/skill ceiling being introduced slowly and voluntarily.

I assume your movelist would be customization, so you could keep it simple or expand it at your will... kind of like River City Ransom for reference.

Streets of Rage Remake represents the peak in beat-em-ups IMO.

With fighting games as saturated a market as they are now, we could really use a return-to-form beat 'em up.

>> No.3172901

I got u bro >>3172294
/vr/ is gonna make it happen

>> No.3172929


holy cow this game's pacing is wonderful

A really nice camera can open a world of possibilities.

>> No.3172948

>play Denjin Makai 2
>no other beat em ups are fun anymore

Nothing even compares honestly, even with its mediocre bossfights it's still the best.

>> No.3172954


i heard them call em BERUTO SKURORA on an episode of gccx so i guess it's a weeb term. i was too quick to blame it on eurocucks

>> No.3172982


It's an Amusement park. You can see the "Disney" castle in the background

>> No.3172983
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>> No.3173010

Better question: why is it that the fat guy enemy always breathes fire in these games?

If i gain 50 more pounds, will I start doing it too?

>> No.3173051
File: 28 KB, 500x655, IT'S LIKE BOO!.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Official reason is that he had "way too many chili dogs!"

>> No.3173064


good list but should be expanded

River City Ransom and Final Fight 3 deserve a slot.

The first Final Fight was fun back in the day but I don't think it stood the test of time.

Streets of Rage Remake and Battletoads Arcade could use spots.

>> No.3173071
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>> No.3173073


That's even the game I started playing when I saw this thread. Spooky. Anyway, SoR2 is very okay but some of the design decisions are driving me fucking bonkers. I can't even count how many times I died while picking up an item instead of punching, which wouldn't be so bad except items are ridiculously plentiful and the weapons kind of suck. I also hate how once Max starts slapping an enemy around during a grab, he won't stop for anything, so you're left wide open.


>First Final Fight
>didn't stand the test of time

Maybe the shitty SNES port didn't.

>> No.3173076


Oh, it also bothers me that they started reusing boss fights as early as stage 5 even though the game is like 9 levels long.

>> No.3173094

>reusing boss fights?
i'm assuming you're talking about stuff like Barbon and Jet re-appearing as sub-bosses? what's so bad about that?

>> No.3173226

Not retro, but I liked Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks a lot. Is not perfect at all, of course, as It has some rpg and puzzle elements, but it's been the nicest I have played after Fighting Force.

I'm thinking a lot about making my own 3D beat' em up latelly. Is an ambitious project since I suck at animating 3D stuff, but I really want to try.

This chart needs River City Ransom. Don't forget Tecmos started this whole genre after all.

>> No.3173238

Genere is not dead yet.

BTW do you think it would be good idea to release a co-op RPG-esque beatemup in the vein of Guardian Heroes these days?

>> No.3173239

Does State of Emergency fit in here?
That was an awesome 3d run and beat em up game.

>> No.3173248 [DELETED] 

>Belt Scroller
>Forced meme



>> No.3173256


The entire thread has been on topic, nice contribution fagbag

>> No.3173268

I aprove of this list, tough there are some missing games.

>Playing fighting force with a friend
>The hype was real when we found out there was a "fighting force 2"
>It had no co-op.
Why the fuck would the remove the one thing that made the game fun?

>> No.3173269

You mean like Code of Princess?

>> No.3173531

DMC 3 Dante is the complete opposite of edgy.

>> No.3173545

This game is awesome, I've been playing it lately and the video doesn't fully do justice to how both challenging and satisfying the combat mechanics feel.

The game surprinsingly solid auto camera combined with the strafe button is also an interesting alternative to the cam lock button popularized by Zelda OOT - which came out after SpikeOut.

>> No.3173570
File: 1.60 MB, 2678x870, sor.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.3173578

>SoR 2
>Not the best one

Your picture is shit.

>> No.3173592


Stop trying to force this shitty meme

>> No.3173598

Reasons why Streets of Rage 2 is objectively garbage in comparison to the other games in the series.

Lets begin with the meat of the game
The combat in SOR2 is incredibly slow and unresponsive, theres huge delays on everything moving and attacking is not fluid, the super attacks in the game punish the player with huge chunk of health loss and are more or less completely useless outside of committing suicide unlike the other games which limit but dont punish the player for smart use of specials.

SOR2 also has no coop/team moves, throwing the other player in the other games resulted in a powerful special attack which was both fun and rewarding, also holding the other player from the back gave them access to new moves like a long range kick that could knock down multiple enemies and vault attacks, these are COMPLETELY missing from SOR2

Another feature missing from SOR2 is the Fatguys, a staple of the series while they have a sprite in game they simply function exactly like normal enemies and can be thrown normally with no repercussions.

>Level Design
Another huge flaw in SOR2 is the level design. Levels in SOR2 are nonsensical and completely unfitting for the games setting, "a pirate ship" "an alien hive" "a baseball field" its just stuff thrown together with no rhyme or reason.
Aesthetics is only the tip of the iceberg with SOR2 however, stages in SOR or extremely short with many bosses being copy pasted and reused over and over again from previous stages giving the game an overall unfinished feel, also once again the game removes series staples such stage hazards like pits, hazardous factory machines and others, and while the game has an excuse for lift stage it is completely impossible to actually throw someone over the side making it just another generic level.

While generally being praised as having good music what most people dont know is that all the music in SOR2 is entirely 100% stolen

>> No.3173601

sleeping dogs feels a lot like streets of rage/shenmue. try it if you haven't

>> No.3173803

>Final Fight 3 deserves a slot
>Final Fight 1 doesn't
shit tastes 2bh pham

>> No.3173843

>responding to the SoR3 shitposter
You've called it upon yourself bud.

>> No.3173903
File: 250 KB, 830x1024, CePOakPUAAIrPpr.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

2.5 million results on Google, bitch.>>3172983

>> No.3174070

>The combat in SOR2 is incredibly slow and unresponsive,
Stop playing the PAL version

>the super attacks in the game punish the player with huge chunk of health loss
It's a tradeoff: part of your health to clear the area / deal huge damage, to prevent enemies doing even more damage to you if you don't dispatch them later. It is the most fluid way to implement specials in such games, and pretty much all Capcom games do it too.

>Levels in SOR2 are nonsensical and completely unfitting for the games setting,

Nah. The pirate ship/horror house are all parts of a theme park. The baseball field is inside a huge stadium, which the level even points out (SEGA STADIUM). Then for the entire rest of the game, you do an assault on the bad guys island penthouse.

>stages in SOR or extremely short
They are just the right length, and they scroll up/down as well as left/right.

>many bosses being copy pasted and reused
So they are in every single game of the genre.

>the game has an excuse for lift stage, it is completely impossible to actually throw someone over the side
It has three lift stages.
Most lifts are enclosed ones in real life.
And the staple of lift stages is always having a gigantic brawl due to the confined area.

>all the music in SOR2 is entirely 100% stolen
So is the music in Doom, that doesn't stop it from being iconic.

Environmental hazards are there (belts, explosions), just not many of them. And it's better this way; they make the battles more straightforward.

I give you the lack of coop moves, but some of those are counter productive (do a vault when your partner is backed into a corner, you'll end up hitting him). And you can still just beat enemies from two sides.

>> No.3174075

>While generally being praised as having good music what most people dont know is that all the music in SOR2 is entirely 100% stolen

lol half of those tracks don't even sound anything like the SOR2 tracks.

>> No.3174103


>> No.3174113
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>> No.3174454
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>> No.3174471

>I'm thinking a lot about making my own 3D beat' em up latelly.
Do it. I'm doing mine in isometric style so you can skate it up like in 720.

Make your belt scroller and we'll revive the genre together and get mad press.

>> No.3174474

what belt scrollers had the best pantsu shots?

>> No.3174617

I'm gonna assume this is Australia-kun copypasta because of how incredibly dumb it is.

>> No.3174716

Wtf is this "belt scroller" meme?

>> No.3174728


sor remake is overhyped as fuck desu

>> No.3174745

A sidescroller that fakes 3D by letting you walk in any direction along a belt-like plane.

Beat 'em ups are the most common example of using this style of gameplay often.

>> No.3175086

why's it gotta be a belt?

>> No.3175092

imagine a bunch of toy figures going down a conveyor belt

now you have a beat 'em up

>> No.3175128

>That one SoR2 samefag desperately trying to convince people SoR2 was not a steaming pile of shit

>> No.3175146

>Stop playing the PAL version
All versions of the game are horrendously slow and clunky

>It's a tradeoff: part of your health to clear the area / deal huge damage, to prevent enemies doing even more damage to you if you don't dispatch them later. It is the most fluid way to implement specials in such games
There's no trade off it literally just punishes the player, theres nothing "fluid" about it you are just throwing round random words now.
Its an incredibly shitty system and games stopped using it for a reason.

>The pirate ship/horror house are all parts of a theme park. The baseball field is inside a huge stadium
As said shitty nonsensical stages.

>They are just the right length
Not even close, they are painfully short.

>So they are in every single game of the genre.
Only the shit ones

>It has three lift stages.
No the game has zero true lift stages, a lift stage is a confined area with an open side.

>Environmental hazards are there
SoR2 has no environmental hazards, no pits, no traps, no falling objects, no crushers. etc.
and no its not "better this way" that's pure battered wife speak, dont be fucking retarded.

>> No.3175259
File: 31 KB, 480x299, belt scroller.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Who uses this term?


SoR is a beat 'em up. This here is a belt scroller.

>> No.3175272

Have you 1cc'd at least one capcom run 'n punch /vr/, right?

>> No.3175282

>that one sor2 samefag
lol literally everyone but you likes 2 the best (for good reason). enjoy playing as a kangaroo you autistic furfag

>> No.3175298

I credit-feed my punch 'em ups, because 1cc's are for tryhard losers.

>> No.3175303

Here's to (you).

>> No.3175326

Dragon's Crown was cool but the needless JRPG elements killed it for me. I don't want to grind in a beat em up.

>> No.3175343

Not retro but the Scott Pilgrim game was pretty good River City Ransom ripoff. Too bad you can't get the game anymore (legally).

>> No.3175368

You can still buy a DL code off Gamestop's website.

>> No.3175752

You need to post a download link to that awesome Double Dragon guidebook Senpai!

>> No.3175762
File: 246 KB, 803x1024, CH8TCYsUEAAzUHZ.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It's not a guide, it's a Famitsu review by Satoshi Tajiri (yes, the Pokemon creator guy). He used to review arcade games before working on vidya. Here's his Kunio review.

>> No.3175763
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Dumping some more.

>> No.3175767
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>> No.3175775

Awesome stuff. Thanks for sharing!

>> No.3175790

Castle Crashers, Alien Hominid, and the Shank series are good as well.

>> No.3175791
File: 298 KB, 1024x917, CdKAgW-VIAAhF86.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Now some Capcom stuff.

>> No.3175794
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>> No.3175796
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>> No.3175798
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>> No.3175878

Can't read threads about my favourite genre coz of tools and this belt scroller bs.
Noone calls them belt scrollers except for dbags on /vr

Does this mean side scrolling shmups are also belt scrollers?
Is Shinobi a belt scroller?
All my run n guns are also belt scrollers?
Super mario is a belt scroller?
>its a fucked term that fails to define anything

>> No.3175882

At least learn what the term means before you whine about it.

>> No.3175891

You left out the best 3d beat em up gameThe Warriors

>> No.3175906

I refuse to coz I don't like it. I thought I made that fairly clear

>> No.3175910

How do you know if you don't like something if you won't even learn what it means? You just come off sounding retarded.

>> No.3175942

>Belt scrollers.
Just the word by itself has a meaning as clear as mud.
Language is used to convey meaning. 'Belt scrollers ' fails to have any meaning. My belt doesn't scoll. It holds my pants up.
>Beat 'em up
Conveys meaning.
Shit, even cqlling them
has more immediate meaning than stupid belt scrollers.

>> No.3176080

Will it work?

>> No.3176082

This is what the deluded SoR2 samefag actually believes

>> No.3176227
File: 278 KB, 775x1024, CdgxrsgUMAAzZy3.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

They're called belt-scrollers because of the perspective. The action moves like a conveyor belt. The term has been used in Japan for eons now. Even Nintendo used it once.

>Final Fight: A belt-scrolling action game that appeared in arcades in 1989. The Super NES version was released in December 1990.

>> No.3176261
File: 2 KB, 250x242, 1347312105813.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Aw shit, does this work on the Sega Model 3 emulator or MAME?

>> No.3176265
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>> No.3176360
File: 17 KB, 200x200, the chuckler.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>he thinks the genre is dead

>> No.3176367

shit list

>> No.3176406

Haven't bought it to try myself yet

>> No.3176507

I had some problems with Final Edition myself, but the regular version works fine.

SEGA also made a version for the OG Xbox with a bunch of playable characters.

>> No.3176514

>The action moves like a conveyor belt.

Unless the stage automatically scrolls then no it really doesn't.

>> No.3176560

>it's another "/vr/ argues about genre semantics and not discussing games" episode

>> No.3176572
File: 222 KB, 762x1024, CQw6qFyUkAAFYUg.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It kinda does if you think about it, given all the stopping points.

>> No.3176576
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>> No.3176581
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>> No.3176598

This isn't a Japanese-language board. I have never heard this term until late last year when someone on /vr/ started using it and was defending it with the exact same justification as you're using.

I fucking guarantee nobody in the 90s in the West was calling them belt-scrollers, because the term doesn't mean anything even now.

>it's like a conveyor belt

Fuck off with that, beat-em-up has been the term for as long as these games have been around in the West, I refuse to suddenly kowtow to another language's slang when ours is perfectly serviceable and more logical.

>> No.3176605
File: 219 KB, 712x1024, CQjI078UEAAa0-6.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Belt-scroller is a good way to distinguish Final Fight-like brawlers with single-planer brawlers like Ninja Warriors and Spartan X.

>> No.3176606

i'dve called em chazwozzers

>> No.3176607

What's wrong with just calling them sidescrolling fighters?

>> No.3176612
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>> No.3176618

It works without slowdown on the recent Supermodel WIP's, though with minor graphical glitches such as the sea and sky in the second level and water in the alternate subway level in the city area.

>> No.3176638
File: 137 KB, 811x480, mfw americans.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>What's wrong with just calling them sidescrolling fighters?

>> No.3176646

How is it a belt-scroller when they can and do scroll up-and-down and side-to-side, sometimes simultaneously, and sometimes not at all?

Beat-em-up is better because these games are always about beating someone up, not the method of how those characters walk to the next fight.

>> No.3176649

in the uk we called them walky thump-punchers

>> No.3176653

Yes, but they're both Beat 'em ups, much like Hori and Verti Shmups are Shoot 'em Ups.
Wouldn't be an issue If there isn't so much frequent sperg-out over 90s Beat-Em-Up fans calling them by the name they used in the 80s or 90s (No, they're "belt-scrollers", trust me, my dad worked at Nintendo)

>> No.3176656

No, i just call them single-plane beat 'em ups.

>> No.3176657

there are some still out there but it's still like the single deadest genre of once-popular video games

unless you really like "rpg elements" or full 3D movement

>> No.3176661

>Not "Bartitsu Strollers" or "belt 'em-lads"

>> No.3176662

Keep that pimp hand strong

>> No.3176673
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>> No.3176743
File: 298 KB, 791x1024, CYQJJRLUEAAxrrG.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I never understood why Final Fight clones and Street Fighter clones are both called "beat-'em-ups" in the UK.

>> No.3176748
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>> No.3176749

>9,800 yen for that piece of shit port

>> No.3176751
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>> No.3176754

>Not even close, they are painfully short.

So play it twice, fampai.

>> No.3176758
File: 206 KB, 806x1024, CQw6mtrUsAAFk4K.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That's how much SFC and MD cartridges cost back in those. See also.>>3176572

>> No.3176781

Reminder that fighting games killed beat 'em ups just like FPS killed shmups.

>> No.3177081

Undercover Cops is fucking great.
Great soundtrack, too bad the shitty SNES port butchered the shit out of it.

>> No.3177090

Belt-scrollers on the SNES were not really that great outside of stuff like Final Fight 3, Batman Returns and Turtles in Time that managed to work around the 3 enemy on-screen limit in their own ways. The system was inherently unsuitable for the genres because of its low RAM and slow ass CPU.

>> No.3177095

The non-japanese arcade version butchered the shit out of it. Luckily the Alpha Revision fixed that.

>> No.3177098

SNES was all-round a mistake for anything that wasn't boring ass JRPG's.

>> No.3177160

Final Fight 3 and TiT are a slog though. Games that managed to be good/challenging despite the 3 enemies limitations are Batman Returns, Ninja Warriors Again and probably a few others.

>> No.3177614
File: 46 KB, 640x480, 152699-Beat_Down_-_Fists_of_Vengeance_(Europe)_(En,Fr,De,Es,It)-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Beat Down

>> No.3177972

Gunstar Heroes, you fags

>> No.3177979

Not a belt scroller.

>> No.3178193

>tfw you special charge Max into Zamza as he's rushing at you

That's how you K.O. a boss.

>> No.3178510

it's just mashing 1 button over and over again, the only time you get hit in these games is if the AI cheeses you or you start falling asleep and stop hitting the button

even speedruns of them are boring to watch, its just tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tapt ap tapt tap taptatptaptasptasptapsrtapstap

>> No.3178515

No such thing.

>> No.3178568

I think he meant Guardian Heroes, which sucks: 15 minute grinding, 15 minute unskippable cutscenes, on an average 46 minute long playthrough.

You want to special charge Zamza when he is standing still, not when he is rushing you. That way he'll block it and you'll do 4 times the damage (over a full lifebar).
Also works on Barbon.

>> No.3178594

Found the autist.

>> No.3178865

Your irrational denial only makes my will to use more often it stronger.

>> No.3179369

Barbon, Zamza, the kickboxers, and even Shiva if you're lucky.

>> No.3179401

It's not irrational, I just don't think Japan should dictate how English speakers should use English.

>> No.3179402

They invented the genre, they gave it the name, you should use their name out of respect.

>> No.3179426
File: 294 KB, 909x1187, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

The only good modern "beat'em up" game.

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