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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3109495 No.3109495 [Reply] [Original]

I was just playing this game recently using daggerfallsetup... WHY CANT I MOVE DIAGONALLY? A few years back i remember being able to press w and a(or s) keys to go diagonal but now I can't for some reason. Help?

>> No.3109504

>Look at me, I appreciate OLD GAMES with OUTDATED systems unlike you babies.
Holy shit dude.

>> No.3109513

>>3109504
lol what I thought this was /vr/??

>> No.3109581

>>3109504
you're on the wrong board babby

>> No.3109614

>>3109581
>>3109513

Yeah yeah old games are good but people that claim to like Daggerfall are full of shit.

>> No.3109713

>>3109495
Why not to ask in a daggerfall thread?
>>3109504
Oh shit nigga, it's /vr/, fucking board made for people who enjoy old games, what are you talking about?

>> No.3109724

>>3109614
Fucking worthless, go away.

>> No.3110790

Daggerfall Unity is dead.
DaggerXL is dead.

Daggerfall is dead.

>> No.3110795

>>3109504
>>3109614
Get
>>>/out/
to
>>>/v/

>> No.3110802

Whoa, there doesn't appear to be a Daggerfall General.

To OP's question, have you checked your keymapping?

>> No.3111071

>>3110790
DaggerXL lives again.
Also BloodXL progress has been made.

>> No.3111153

>>3109614
Well at least we aren't Arena fags, that game sucks.

>> No.3111325

>>3109495
never heard of being able to move diagonally. You might be able to write an autohotkey script to simulate it- like holding w+a causing them to alternate at 50 Hz, or something

>> No.3111442

>>3109504
why does /vr/ always have the strangest shitposting

>> No.3111817

>>3109724
>>3109581
>>3110795
If you're on /vr/ you should be old enough to ignore trolls. If shit gets worse here I'm blaming you daft buggers.

>>3109495
As for you, your memory is flawed, only bishops can move diagonally.

>> No.3111863

I want to read something about the way the dungeons are generated - an analysis or story about the engine that generates them and what side effects it has. Any clues? Google is no longer relevant for such searches I believe.

>> No.3111870

>>3111863
>dungeons are generated
I see you're using the present tense. You're in for a disappointment. Dungeons aren't random.

>> No.3111879

>>3111870
Learn the difference between procedural generation and randomization

>> No.3112062

>>3111879
No u. It's because I know the difference that I posted what I did, you git.

>> No.3112505
File: 64 KB, 1600x1200, dag dungeon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3112505

>>3111863
Firstly, the dungeons aren't generated in real time. What >>3111870 is trying to say is that the dungeons in Daggerfall are all premade. They WERE generated in 1996 and the resulting thousands of dungeons were put on the CD we all got. I'm not talking about a fixed seed, either. I'm saying that the game literally does not contain the code to generate dungeons in the first place, so you couldn't make it do so unless you wrote a generator yourself.

Because of this, we cannot peek at whatever tool Bethesda used to generate them. But a nice side effect is that you can see the layout of every dungeon for yourself. For that you want to use ATLAS: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Files#Editors_and_Viewers
With this, you can print the layout of every dungeon, town, and other locations in the game. They are stored in the MAPS.BSA file, and the hex numbers you see are references to blocks in the BLOCKS.BSA file. Note that the "handcrafted" main quest dungeons are actually stored the same as the "random" dungeons. What makes main quest ones unique is that they each have at least one dungeon block that exists only in them.

For almost everything you need to know about dungeons, see: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Dungeons

There's also a reddit post from a few months ago describing one person's dungeon crawling technique, and the first half of it discusses what you can learn on that wiki page: https://www.reddit.com/r/Daggerfall/comments/3oeln1/how_do_you_stay_motivated_to_finish_this_game/cvwrz0b

I think those sources cover everything you'd want to know, but if you have any questions I can answer them. One fun bit of trivia not mentioned is that every dungeon (except the final one) is surrounded by floating rooms that cannot be accessed without glitching. This is a side effect of the way border blocks work. Those rooms can contain monsters which prevent you from sleeping if you're near the edge of the dungeon, but will never contain anything quest-related.

>> No.3112514

>>3112505
Thank you for the exhaustive answer. I find the intersection of maps, gameplay and the tools that are used in procedural generation very interesting in general. I will read the things you linked to me, thank you.

>> No.3112521

>>3110790
Unity is still being worked on dipshit.
0.2 Test Release was just released
https://twitter.com/gav_clayton

>> No.3112527 [DELETED] 

>>3109495
lol
>implying pc games can be retro

nice try
>>>/v/

>> No.3112538

>>3112505
Just looked inside maps.bsa, and wow, disappointing as fuck

>> No.3112539

>>3112514
I have the same interest as you and Daggerfall's a surprising example of it, since it's a game that's notorious for its huge, complex, and maze-like dungeons, yet was actually very simple when it came to how they were generated. It was really the handmade blocks themselves that were mostly huge and labyrinthine rather than the generator that placed them.

>> No.3112541

>>3109504
Wrong board, underage faggot.

>>>/v/

>> No.3112549

>>3112539
>yet was actually very simple when it came to how they were generated
You just said we don't know how they are generated. For all we know the "handmade blocks" could be generated to work together in some form, and at build time contained some meta info on what block goes with what block, to form the actual maps

>> No.3112550
File: 999 KB, 250x251, url.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3112550

>>3112527
wat

>> No.3112554

>>3112538
Yeah, there's not much to see unless you recognize the blocks themselves. You might prefer a tool that lets you visually explore the dungeons. This might be more interesting: http://www.dfworkshop.net/downloads/daggerfall-modelling/

>> No.3112559

>>3112554
>there's not much to see
That wasn't why I was disappointed. Seeing the dungeon names scroll by, confirming that the whole thing is nothing but generated data was the disappointing bit

>You might prefer a tool that lets you visually explore the dungeons
Not under these circumstances. That was a big whammy

>> No.3112561

>>3112549
Nah, since we have such a massive sample size we can see that there aren't any patterns like that. Every block can connect to every other block without problems, because they're all the same size squares with doors in the same locations. It's all modular and they're put together like legos purely in a 2D grid.

>> No.3112564

>>3112561
if it was so simply to put them together, why not include the generator and instead do the full listing? Also, how does the "massive sample size" help in recognizing that the "handmade" blocks must have been handmade, instead of being partially generated?

>> No.3112586

>>3112564
Ah, I thought you were speculating that, for example, certain blocks could often connect to each other in some way. What we do know is that there's no greater overall structure to the dungeons outside of the random placement of blocks, with all blocks not fully surrounded chosen from the border block pool and all blocks fully surrounded chosen from the main block pool.

I hadn't considered that the blocks themselves could have been partially generated. You're absolutely right and we have no way of knowing. They all seem handmade and some have clever puzzles and quest locations, and there's not enough of them that it would be unreasonable to expect them to be handmade.

>> No.3112595

>>3112586
>Ah, I thought you were speculating that, for example, certain blocks could often connect to each other in some way
Yes, I was, but you confirmed that's not the case, because the connectors of the blocks are the same, to keep dependencies in check. I was also wondering how handmade the blocks are, but that was a second, independent thing.

I have no doubt that at least key aspects of them, like the puzzles you mentioned, are manually built. I can fully imagine though that the connection from these handmade parts to the standardized block limits might be done semi-automatically though

>> No.3112621

>>3112595
I see where you're coming from. I remember reading an interview with the guy that did most (all?) of the Daggerfall dungeon design, but I can't seem to find it again with a simple google search. The gist was that it was a rushed development with several programmers coming and going. I would love to find more about the block design itself.

As an aside, there is a lot of copy-pasted design even between blocks. Many blocks are just "flooded" version of other blocks with a higher water level, and there's a couple versions of various blocks with minor differences.

I'd keep an eye on Daggerfall Unity. There's a few people writing dungeon generators and I'm sure eventually we'll have a tool to make new dungeon blocks. It will be interesting to experiment with and maybe make some rules about design on a larger scale than just blocks.
http://forums.dfworkshop.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=78

>> No.3114781

Bump

>> No.3116983

>>3114781

>> No.3119908

>>3114781