/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2903045]

Why are early 3D games so comfy? Something about being encased in an explorable but restricted environment just really does it for me

[Anonymous No.2903079]

They expected the player to be amazed simply by the 3D environments and it's extremely evident in tons of early ones from Mario 64 to Tomb raider.

As a side effect, they actually still convey that same wonder to you while playing them. Especially if you have even SOME nostalgia with them.

[Anonymous No.2903108]

I think it's that the worlds are so imaginative, but on the other hand they're small and controlled. A more modern game world is so expansive that it can't be comfy almost by definition just due to it's expansiveness.

[Anonymous No.2903130]

everything was carefully and methodically placed around the maps in addition to what the others said above. nowadays, you can simply paint new bridges, trees, what the fuck ever around the map and get a hallowed out version of imagination for your maps. they had "character".

[Anonymous No.2903137]

>>2903079
>>2903108
>>2903130

So what's the secret for people looking to capture this magic 20 years later?

[Anonymous No.2903140]

>>2903045
I've heard a lot of people find early 3D games really creepy.

[Anonymous No.2903141]

>>2903137
don't be a jaded asshole who lives in 2016, it's impossible for most newbies to earth and even bitter old earthfags I'd imagine

[[e-mail] No.2903157]

>>2903137
>Game designer seeking inspiration detected
You want me to do your work for you pay me as a consultant.

Nah, I would say off the cuff that it was about showcasing the hardware. Now it's not so easy to press the limits of a PS4 in a way that impacts the player as amazingly advanced... But it may not even need to push the hardware that much since for a long time games have been sold mainly on social content and gimmicks.

>You have cutting edge hardware. Look what amazing things it can do
This was the flavor being described in the OP

[Anonymous No.2903160]

>>2903045

That game was terrible though.

[Anonymous No.2903165]

>>2903137

Make sure that your level allows for multiple ways to play it and complete it's objectives. That's one of the reasons I love Mario 64, most every star has multiple ways to go about it.

I might be wrong, but it seems like in these older 3D games the levels were a bit more explitable because the designer didn't fully expect the tricks players could or would use. In playtesting, try to break your level, and if you can, consider leaving it in if it's an interesting way of doing things. Like, if you can glitch through a wall, fix that, but if you can get over a wall by doing several wall jumps and a crazy backflip, leave that in.

[Anonymous No.2903172]

>>2903165
Honestly I think things like clutching through walls should be left in, as long as it's not too obvious how to do it.

Speedruns of Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are wondrous to behold because those games are so riddled with bugs.

[Anonymous No.2903175]

>>2903160
Its just an example. Honestly any game of that time like Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Bomberman Hero, Tomb Raider, Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie, Gex series, etc

[Anonymous No.2903182]

>comfy
Glover was gloomy as fuck.

[Anonymous No.2903189]

>>2903182
>that alone feeling through the entire game
>those desolate wasteland-ish environments
>those skyboxes

glover was eerie as fuck

[Anonymous No.2903201]

Early 3d games were good because of limitations.
They couldn't have huge sprawling maps so they had to condense them down.
As a result everything felt more tight and you got to know the levels much more intimately.
Compared to a modern game where levels can stretch on to be the size of cities and as a result you don't really get to 'know' a level.
It's another example of how technological restrictions actually led to a better product.

[Anonymous No.2903274]

>>2903137
Work within artificial limits.

[Anonymous No.2903789]

>>2903201
>They couldn't have huge sprawling maps so they had to condense them down.
>As a result everything felt more tight and you got to know the levels much more intimately.
>Compared to a modern game where levels can stretch on to be the size of cities and as a result you don't really get to 'know' a level.
Demon's Souls did that.

[Anonymous No.2903796]

>>2903140

Those workers in Kakariko Village used to give me nightmares. I could never understand what their faces were.

[Anonymous No.2903798]

>>2903140
Where have you heard that?

[Anonymous No.2903816]

>>2903201
Necessity is the mother of all invention, anon.

As evidenced here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZAXBSot3k

[Anonymous No.2903857]

>>2903798
You see a lot of threads about LE SPOOKY MARIO 64 SKYBOXES OOOOOOOoooooooooo

[Anonymous No.2903953]

>>2903079
>They expected the player to be amazed simply by the 3D environments
This is why I don't find early 3d games fun in general, I don't feel the amazement.

[Anonymous No.2903959]

>>2903045
because it simulates a babys playpen precisely the type of thing people who like those games enjoy

[Anonymous No.2903964]

>>2903959
KEk
But you're a dick

[Anonymous No.2903965]

>>2903964
haha I know

[Anonymous No.2903967]

>>2903965
LOL am i cool yet?

[Anonymous No.2903968]

>>2903137
Just do what all the other Indies do and copy some game, then hide behind the "homage/inspired by" weasel excuse. Bonus points if you stole/neglected to credit another dev's work.

[Anonymous No.2903975]

>>2903959
Why is this type of /v/ posting allowed here? Seriously. He contributes nothing of value, instead spewing idiocy and insulting pretty much everyone who visits /vr/ with sincerity. I assure you I'm not as mad as I may sound. I just don't think there's any need for this type of shitposting here.

[Anonymous No.2904014]

>>2903045
Mario 64 is probably the epitome of this.

Although I always found the actual outside of the castle to feel "fake" and dead compared tho the lively painting worlds.

[Anonymous No.2904017]

>>2903959
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.2904018]

>>2904017
I can kinda see what he's talking about

[Anonymous No.2904030]

>>2903045
I've posted this a lot on /vr/ before but I think n64 graphics and maybe PS1 graphics have the best way to bridge the gap between imagination and reality. What I mean by that is that before things started getting more and more realistic pixel art style would have kids fill in all the gaps with their imagination. It was really fun and few games try to evoke that same feeling.

It makes all atmosphere better for me. There are things in OoT that make me feel so cozy, but also so much more unsettled. All the dungeons are creepy to me.

I don't mean to sound that biased though. I don't hate modern graphics. I like the 3D OoT and MM a lot.

[Anonymous No.2904053]

>>2903045

[Anonymous No.2904061]

>>2903953
While I can understand where you're coming from, I find the 3D environments in some of the best-looking early 3D games no more show-offy than the environments seen in some of the best looking 2D games. I can still find the fun in both though.

>>2904053
>we'll never get a Spyro level editor
That'll even add more to the already amazing world viewer.

[Anonymous No.2904159]

>>2903045
Because they were lighthearted and not trying to be super serious 2deep4u grimdark shooters

[Anonymous No.2904178]

>>2903975
It's only allowed because we seem to have non-existent or indifferent mods here.

More on-topic, I love how Mario 64 lets you play it every which way. Like when Games Done Quick had the Mario 64 100% speedrun just the other day, they had three people playing and while two of them did one route, another did a different route, and the announcers even said that you can do tons of different routes and still end up at about the same pace once hitting the upstairs floors. Plus you can even switch stars mid-level when you screw up on your run (which inevitably happens in a 120-star run). I'm just really impressed that the game is so incredibly open. You can play it a million different ways. It still stands to me as one of the most perfect examples of what a video game is really supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.2904190]

>>2904159
I was also thinking this has a lot to do with it.

[Anonymous No.2904227]

I always really liked the CG ads from the 90's.

[Anonymous No.2904340]

>>2904053
I absolutely love the skyboxes in that game, using simple gouraud shaded meshes, instead of expensive (memory-wise) textures, pure brilliance

[Anonymous No.2904439]

>tfw I can't emulate PS1 and N64 games
>tfw I'll never know the joys of 3D platformers

[Anonymous No.2904463]

>>2903045
For me it's a mix of early 3D games being rough around the edges so you're generally given a lot of space and time to do even simple things and the music tends to be background ambience rather than over the top orchestral or metal crap trying to get you excited.

Games of that era simply didn't try to give you something thrilling to do every single second. There was downtime and no rush or hallway forcing you to stay focused. It's a flaw in some ways but one I desperately miss. I love getting relaxed and lost in a world that isn't constantly trying to get me to hurry up.

[Anonymous No.2904478]

>>2904439
But you can emulate PSX for a not such big price.

[Anonymous No.2904776]

>>2903045
Because they were new and the people who made them were willing to try anything

>>2903137
Either bright colors as in OP, or few polys with lots of textures like in Tomb Raider games.

And use your imagination. Don't make it straightforward. Add hidden stuff throughout the map that's out of the way for those who wish to explore to discover.

[Anonymous No.2904781]

>>2903141

[Anonymous No.2905000]

>>2903140
The only ones I found creepy were the N64 Zelda games but I found them creepy even when they came out. They had some seriously dark stuff for an E rated game.

[Anonymous No.2905010]

>>2903789
You're kinda right, actually. It definitely has some of that qualia.

[Anonymous No.2905016]

>>2903201
I don't think it was because of limitations but more because of what were modern trends back then. There were games with massive maps such as Turok 2 and of course at an extreme level Daggerfall. Personally I think it's because a lot of modern gamers are so deadset on the idea that every game must have some ridiculous time dump or else it's not worth buying that causes developers to drop them into a huge map with everything spread out as far as possible in order to bloat gametime.

[Anonymous No.2905043]

>>2905016
The modern maps aren't even big, you brought up Daggerfall yourself. What matters more here, is that developing that kind of game is "simple". It's simple because the massive majority of the work for it is asset generation. Building objects, texturing them. You can reuse a random open world engine, or buy one for fairly cheap. Compare the various open world sandboxes of the present and you'll find very little differences in terms of actual gameplay, if you can even find gameplay. It's all established, and while it may be bland, it sells. Their only difference is the used assets, which is, if you're strict, not an aspect of gameplay, or interactivity, or anything gaming related, really.
As for spreading things out, that doesn't happen. All of these games have fast travel, bypassing the travelling distances. They are not for game progression. They are for what is usually labelled "exploration". It's not really exploration, as there's nothing to explore. The world's static, there are at most collectathons hidden, which again, is established gameplay.
At the time of early 3D games, these things were not established, and game production values were a bit more under control. So developers experimented. You had different genres, convoluted control schemes, very different approaches to level or world design.

[Anonymous No.2905937]

>>2903045
space constraints made the graphics, music, and tasks more simplistic so the game gets a "go with the flow" atmosphere because of it.

kinda like how "moe" in anime works

[Anonymous No.2906016]

I suspect in the old days developers would have to use their imagination and visualizations more, create the world in their mind first. Nowadays with sophisticated developer tools they are borrowing someone else's bits and pieces, and putting the world together a bit at a time on the computer to prove their work progression. I'm sure they still work hard on it, but it's coming more from prototypes on the screen rather than their own visions.