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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 39 KB, 656x369, 1450124875236[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2854636 No.2854636 [Reply] [Original]

https://vimeo.com/148909578

John Romero just shared a video of the PC version of Mario 3. iD software made it in 1990 and presented it to Nintendo (who rejected it). They went on to make Commander Keen instead.

>> No.2854670

So this was right after the "Dangerous Dave In Copyright Infringement" demo, right?

>> No.2854675

>>2854636
>iD software made it in 1990 and presented it to Nintendo (who rejected it).
I don't blame them. The flight mechanics are completely off.

>> No.2854678

>>2854675
>I don't blame them. The flight mechanics are completely off.

Coded in a night, on a system that should not even be able to do side scrolling graphics.

If they had the actual source code, and ported it properly they could have made a very accurate port.

>>2854670

Yes

>> No.2854694

>>2854678
Did they do this randomly to show it to nintendo, or did nintendo request it then didnt like it?

>> No.2854696

It's 60fps scrolling in a vga card, precisely what I expected.

>> No.2854701

>>2854694

They made this in a night and then sent it off to Nintendo. Ninty wasn't interested.

>> No.2854702

>>2854696
Shouldn't it be 70?

>> No.2854704

>>2854636
Mario's eyes are a little dilated there. He should lay of the shrooms.

>> No.2854706

>>2854701
So quality probably has nothing to do with why the rejected it, nintendo probably didnt want their games on other platforms

>> No.2854715

>>2854706

Nintendo was probably very safe with their position as console only. This was right after SMB3 was the biggest game ever. Ninty was at their peak with Famicom and Super. It was only after N64 that they became humbled.

>> No.2854724

>>2854675

If you knew anything about the hardware they were using, this is an extremely impressive demo and a marvel of programming. The fact that they even made the screen scroll was a feat in itself.

As well, this is a demo. Presumably, id would have improved it further if it was given the greenlight. As well, id didn't have the original source code. They probably left some things unpolished under the assumption they would receive the game's source code.

Whoever said that Nintendo rejected it because they didn't want their games on other platforms is almost certainly correct. There was no reason for Nintendo to want their bestselling game that was only a year old on a different platform.

>> No.2854730

>>2854696
>vga card

>> No.2854753 [DELETED] 

>>2854724
>Whoever said that Nintendo rejected it because they didn't want their games on other platforms is almost certainly correct. There was no reason for Nintendo to want their bestselling game that was only a year old on a different platform.

What about all the arcade games like Donkey Kong that were on 500 different platforms?

>> No.2854756

>>2854753

>arcade games

>> No.2854758

>>2854753

Nintendo did not have a console back in 1981.

>> No.2854759
File: 288 KB, 1280x861, auteurs-9-romeroCarmack90.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2854759

>>2854675
>>2854678
>>2854701
>>2854706
>>2854715
>>2854724
You have to remind this demo reached the hands of Miyamoto himself who played it and was absolutely astonished. Management canning this to maintain exclusivity seems like the only possible explanation.

Pic related is Carmack and Romero actually applying the final touches.

>>2854753
Don't forget Mario Bros. Those were just quieter times I think.

>> No.2854764

>>2854753
That was before they were in the console market and realised they could make a killing keeping to their own platform exclusively.

This was also during the time when Nintendo forced developers to make games exclusively for the Famicom/NES and not port to other platforms. They were comfortable in their effective monopoly.

>> No.2854765

I want to read some more about this port, is there a good article somewhere?

>> No.2854768

>>2854759

I absolutely love old pictures of id; they're so comfy to me.

>> No.2854769

>>2854696
It's not, it's 35fps like Commander Keen.

>> No.2854772

>>2854765

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/keen/keen.htm

There's a little more about the port in there. This article also states that Nintendo didn't want to enter the PC market.

>> No.2854776

>doom babbies

>> No.2854780

>>2854772

https://3drealms.com/news/happy-25th-birthday-commander-keen/

Another article that confirms that Nintendo loved it but didn't want to enter the 3D market, straight from 3D Realms, posted today.

>> No.2854781

>>2854753
Nintendo didn't have a console in the US when those licensing deals occurred, they were simply an arcade game maker and licensing home-console ports of arcade games was par for the course. Any licensed games released before '83 would pre-date the Famicom in Japan as well.

>> No.2854782

>jew romero still trying to remain relevant

>> No.2854785

>>2854782
stay edgy bro

>> No.2854791

>>2854670
>>2854678
Close but not quite guys. Here's the Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4HJkeQSg0

>> No.2854802

You used to be able to actually download and play this from his site.

It was pretty good. Wasn't exactly 1:1 graphically but very impressive considering that Carmack produced this overnight.

>> No.2854807

>>2854802

I'm a complete spaz. I'm thinking of the Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement.

I did know they pitched this to Nintendo but I didn't know they actually recreated Mario 3 for them.

>> No.2854821 [DELETED] 

Geez, Sega had no problem licensing ports of their games even in the 90s when they did have consoles.

>> No.2854829

>>2854821

Geez, so what?

companies have different strategies and they always seek to make profit, Sega didn't port their games to be nice to PC users, they did it to make an extra buck. It wasn't charity.

>> No.2854835 [DELETED] 

>>2854821
NoA were always greedy monopolistic douchebags. Sega have always seemed more bro-tier.

>> No.2854845

>>2854835

Yeah, did you know Hiroshi Yamauchi wasn't actually a human being? He was a vessel that enclosed 7 yakuza oni spirits from 7 different regions in Japan. These oni monopolized the gambling in Japan with the hanafuda Nintendo cards and put a spell so that no other company could produce cards, truly evil.

Yamauchi, often referred to as "大魔王 ティラノ天堂" (Great Evil King Tyranotendo), tyranized the video games market with his monopolic practises, it is said that the Master System or the PC Engine didn't actually ever exist, and that they were invented time after so hide the fact that the Famicom was actually the one and only console existing in Japan.

>> No.2854885

Nintendo rejected that but was OK with Mario is Missing and Mario Teaches Typing?

>> No.2854894

>>2854885

Edutainment games are more at home at PC.

>> No.2854913

>>2854885
Mario is Missing was a 3rd party project. Its the type of thing that you could reasonably go to Nintendo and ask them to license the characters, or that Nintendo would ask a PC developer to put together. Approaching them with an (unsolicited?) offer to port a game by presenting an inferior copy you cooked up that fucks up some pretty important aspects of it isn't going to do much of anything.

>> No.2854953

>>2854845
Jesus Christ man, go outside.

>> No.2854961

>>2854953

?

>> No.2855054
File: 37 KB, 983x456, inyourkeendreams.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2855054

>> No.2856569
File: 49 KB, 610x347, Carmack-Rift.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2856569

I like this thread better than >>2855401

It was created first and there's way more quality posting to be found here instead of baseless bashing.

>> No.2856591

>>2856569
Oh hey Carmack, how's that backyard space program going?

>> No.2856592

>>2854885

You really think those games hurt console sales?

>> No.2856593

>>2856569

Well, duh. Discussion on that board is exceedingly rare.

>> No.2856597

>>2856593
>Discussion on that board is exceedingly rare.
You mean, like the board that we're on right now?

>> No.2856637

Nintendo should've let them make a 3D Mario game using the Doom engine. First person platforming would be a little shitty, but using a fire flower to blast Goombas and strafe through Hammer Bro fire would be worth it.

>> No.2856665

its funny how Nintendo rejected this, but earlier let Hudson make this for an NEC computer.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E0HQOKmAPRA

>> No.2856772

>>2856665

This really puts id's efforts into perspective, this is a god awful port. By the time id was ready to port Mario 3 Nintendo was already set on world domination and exclusivity, it was just bad timing. Technically speaking it's a marvel, done or one night or not.

>> No.2856805

>>2856637

I'm pretty sure there's some Super Mario mods for Doom 2.

>> No.2856808

it's a cool piece of history but people need to stop idolizing carmack so fucking much

>> No.2856831

>>2856808
>tfw carmack will literally die in your lifetime

>> No.2856835

>>2856772

Super Mario Bros. Special was also made in 1986, for a computer released in 1981.

>> No.2857739

>>2856835
That is a good point, but for the ten years until id made Keen, there weren't any scrolling games for PC of that quality.

>> No.2857823

>>2856831

Nah Ray Kurzweil will make him immortal. Then Carmack will blast them both off to the moon.

>> No.2857840

>>2856569
Please come back to gaming, John.

>> No.2857953

>>2854765
the masters of doom goes into it

>> No.2857993

>>2854758
Actually they did. (Color TV Game..)

>> No.2857995

>>2854802
Of id's Mario? Then there still HAS to be a copy out there? You still have it and can upload??

>> No.2857997

>>2856665
Maybe because of that awful port was the reason to not allow another failed PC version.

>> No.2858002

>>2854696
this shit is EGA lol

>>2854706
this is exactly what it was. it had nothing to do with the quality (it was painfully clear this was merely a tech demo to demonstrate what the team was capable of), nintendo was comfortable with their near monopoly and didn't want to put their games on PC.

simple as that.

>>2854724
it wasn't so much the scrolling itself as it was the smoothness of it. the tricks that Carmack used to scroll the screen in such a smooth way during that era on an 8086 was unheard of.

>>2856808
why? you do realize the guy is fucking brilliant and responsible for some of the most important events in PC gaming?

>> No.2858006

>>2858002
>you do realize the guy is fucking brilliant and responsible for some of the most important events in PC gaming

No. This is exactly what he's talking about. Name them.

>> No.2858018

>>2858006
>commander keen & the keen game engine
>wolf 3d and DOOM
>DOOM's local multiplayer over LAN making multiplayer gaming and the deathmatch a stable of gaming that persists to this day, on PC and console
>continuously pushing the performance envelope, forcing producers of 3D accelerators and other software devs to step their game up

shall I continue? why are you so buttmad that you can't accept the fact that the praise Carmack receives is absolutely justified? are you mad that you can't even match 10% of his capabilities?

http://fabiensanglard.net/doom3/index.php
https://twitter.com/sssmcgrath/status/248870107781140480
https://archive.is/IDame

Kindly go fuck yourself.

>> No.2858058
File: 23 KB, 428x599, ManaEGA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2858058

>>2858002
>EGA

Elegant Gothic Aristocrat?

>> No.2858115

>>2858018
What about things like MIDI Maze?

>> No.2858386

This is so bad it's almost on the level of the Megaman PC ports. Shit physics, shit graphics, shit sounds.

>> No.2858393

>>2858002
>it wasn't so much the scrolling itself as it was the smoothness of it.
It's not smooth, it's only 35fps. PCs didn't get smooth scrolling until Jazz Jackrabbit.

>> No.2858423

>>2858393
>35fps
>not smooth

>> No.2858452

How come PC couldn't do smooth scrolling before 1990 while the NES could do it in 1983?

>> No.2858470
File: 11 KB, 320x424, elite.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2858470

>>2858452
entirely different hardware.
The NES uses tiles, small squares of about 8x8 pixels, that make up a whole background in form of a grid. The developer simply controls the scrolling of that background by setting an offset, and the hardware takes care of all the rest.

On the PC? No such thing, at all. Instead you get a grid of pixels. If you want to scroll, you have to do it manually. In the most naive case that means copying most of the pixels on screen to new locations, and drawing the pixels that weren't there on the previous frame. That's a lot of manual work, that eats the CPU like there's no tomorrow. It also requires high data throughput to the GPU, which is notoriously slow. After all, scrolling was never a concept for these cards. Their job was showing spreadsheets, or text documents, or a prompt.

However, this per-pixel access came with an advantage. When CPU power grew, developers could use that power to draw arbitrary shapes. They used that almost instantly to draw polygons. On the NES or even the SNES? No dice. It has tiles. Doing that with tiles is a very difficult chore. There were few, painfully slow and awful looking polygonal NES games, and on the SNES it took the Super FX chip, basically overriding the entire graphics hardware of the SNES, to do something polygonal.

Pic shows Elite on DOS (top, 1987) and NES (bottom, 1991). The DOS version is 4 years older than the NES version. While it has fewer colors, a limitation of CGA, it features fully shaded models, and, unlike the NES version, runs very fluently. Not saying the DOS version is better in all aspects, but its polygonal engine is much better suited for dedicated pixel access, like on the PC.

>> No.2858473
File: 2 KB, 360x240, sibros.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2858473

>>2858386
As throughly said in >>2858002 it was clear it was not their best attempt at a porting but just a simple proof of concept.

>>2858393
Ken Silverman (creator of the build Engine) managed to pull 70fps scrolling in 1991 with pic related: a platformer with simple graphics.

>>2858452
NES couldn't do it until SMB and even then they all used memory mappers to cheat scrolling in, not to mention the NES operates in tiles (so it's like the actual resolution was 32x30) and had dedicated graphic hardware while IBM PCs (which were not made to play video games) had to manage everything through the CPU on a per-pixel basis.