Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Maintenance is complete! We got more disk space.
Become a Patron!

/vr/ - Retro Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 11 KB, 480x360, shitbox.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2725939 No.2725939 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

>literally My Controller Is Better Than Yours: The Genre
Why do fighting games and its community suck so much?

>> No.2725942

>>2725939
>play fighting game online
>use shitty Xbox controller
>enemy uses the best arcade stick or hitbox
>"hurr why do you suck so much faget? learn to git gud"
No wonder this genre is occupied by niggers.

>> No.2725946

>>2725942
plenty of top tiers use xbox controllers.
Evo 2014 sf4 was won with a ps1 controller.
Dont blame your tools.
Git gud.

>> No.2725947

>>2725942
You idiots keep saying this, but majority of the community is white...

>> No.2725949

I don't see players in retro fightans being assholes like the ones who play competitively new titles. Anyway the biggest sin I can see in this situation is when some underages try to mock you when you call a arcade stick as arcade stick.

>U FUKIN KAZOOALL IT'S A FIGHTING STICK U DUMB

>> No.2725950

>>2725946
I don't blame my controller, I blame the genre you retard.
My controller is perfect for games, except for this genre.

And if input devices wouldn't matter then why are hitboxes banned huh? Fuck off

>> No.2725956

>>2725950
Hitboxes are not banned.
Controllers that allow opposite directions being hit at once (i.e. left and right) are, because some games allow you to block multiple directions.

A hitbox that drops the opposite direction when you press the other (i.e. holding left hit right, holding down hit up) are perfectly tournament legal, and have been for years.
>>2725949
I have literally never heard anyone getting upset about this.

>> No.2725959

Another fucking fighting game thread on /v/ this is going to be good.

>> No.2725964

>>2725950
I have never seen a hitbox at a major.

>> No.2725967

>>2725956
>Controllers that allow opposite directions being hit at once (i.e. left and right) are
How is this an different than the other obvious advantages hitboxes give you over other devices? With a hitbox you can execute things much faster than with anything else, while also still being much more accurate. Don't try to tell me that this wasn't true.

>> No.2725969

>>2725964
Of course not, because they are so OP that you either would get banned or just ridiculed by everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xZ7YF16td8

>> No.2725985

Hitboxes are not banned.
same people that blame controllers complain about op characters, complain about 'spamming' moves, complain about 'cheap' tactics.
It is a well known code for being a scrub and having to find something else to blame for lack of insight or ability. Undoubtedly it translates over to your day to day life as well.

>> No.2725996

>>2725985
This, FG are a testament to one's own ability.

It doesn't matter what controller you use, nor does you main or tactics, sure you can be a monster who reads through frames like they were letters but you can still lose against someone who can read your tactic and wins by spamming cheap moves, you can be stylish, you can be cheap, as long as you win nothing matters, unless you play for fun without worrying about winning or losing or you want to put up a good show for those who watch, there are many types of skills and tricks you can use but in the end all that matters is how good you are at using the tools you choose.

>> No.2726002

>>2725985
>implying most fighting games don't have completely unbalanced roasters
>implying "top-tier" playing doesn't consist of retards spamming hadokens and tiger uppercuts for 90% of the time

>> No.2726005

>>2725996
>FG are a testament to one's own ability
Fighting games are nothing but casual crap for wannabe hardcore players, just like every other multiplayer game. They go online and think they are the shit for beating the average retard on there.

If i want to test myself then I play STGs, because they are actually challenging and don't just require me to learn dumb button combinations and having a controller for at least 100$.

>> No.2726014

>>2725946
literally no one good uses xbox controllers. For a good reason.

>> No.2726035

>>2726014
a quick google search for "pad players" and "evo" will reveal you have no idea what you are talking about.

>> No.2726039
File: 1.52 MB, 1065x902, 1421557510809.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2726039

>>2726005
>If i want to test myself then I play STGs

>> No.2726041

>>2726002
proving the previous point.
>lack of insight
>lack of ability

From your second line, take street fighter for an example. Any game in recent memory always attracts "unbalanced" claims, however, each year new tactics and strategies are developed for different characters and "balance" perspective is reassessed. This is as true for modern incarnations as it is for super turbo to this date.
The catch cry of 'spamming hadoukens" is conclusive proof you have nothing but the most rudimentary knowledge of fighting game strategy.

>> No.2726050

>>2726005
Who let /v/ in here

>> No.2726056

>>2726035
all you get is people using playstation controllers. No one wants to use x360 pad because it's one of the worst ever made

>> No.2726065

>>2726056
except-
alioune
snake eyes
pie smug

just from a quick page 1 search. Shit even brolilegs can use one with his face and is still competetive.
At the end of the day it is just a tool. ease of input of controls accounts for less than 5% of the skills needed to be competetive at a fighting game. If, like OP, you are making infantile complaints about children online who tease you for losing, it is fair to say the controller is the least of your problems.

But the cognitive dissonance displayed in this thread is entertaining anyway.

>> No.2726069

>>2726005
lmao, you would get demolished in a local tournament, its ok pal, most people would

>> No.2726070

>>2726056
Not the guy you've been talking to, the 360 pad is genuinely terrible, but it's really the only example of one that's so bad it's hard to use seriously. Most standard controllers are perfectly fine if you learned on a pad.

I just use a crappy $20 Madcatz pad and an in the top 10% of players in my non-retro fighting game of choice. And have at times held my own against tournament winners.

Would I do well if I went to an actual tournament? I haven't a clue, I have no interest in that. For me these are just games I play and fighters are some of the most fun because the opponents are other humans and always different.

I can understand not liking the genre. There are genres I don't care about like FPS for example. What I don't understand is getting as upset as OP is over a type of game that you don't like. Why bother? Just don't play them. No need to have a tantrum over it.

>> No.2726075

>>2725967
SOCD hasnt been a thing with the actual HitBoxes, but similar products custom made or self made could potentially do so. however, HitBoxes themselves are not banned.

>> No.2726078
File: 2.91 MB, 3640x2380, Ngcdpad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2726078

You know what was a great fighting game controller? The Neo Geo CD pad. It makes me wish that more contemporary arcade games had been released on the system. I bet NBA Jam would be great on that controller.

Alternatively, what controllers do you enjoy /vr/? I know folks say 360 pads are bad but I like the horipad ex2 turbo a lot.

>> No.2726080

>>2725939
I don't know man, I feel way worse about paying to win in online shooters.

I have 2k worth of hardware and pay 4x as much per month for top notch internet. All so I can hear better, see better, and shoot better. All I do is pubstomp and troll, it's lots of fun, but a little shameful.

>> No.2726083

>>2726078
Dreamcast for some reason is my all time favorite. It's weird, but something about that little d-pad made everything super easy to pull off. I still find KoF qcf-hcb motions easier on it than any other. I even made a Frankenstein 360 controller with a DC pad in place of the original once which was pretty cool.

Behind that I really like the Saturn pad as well. Neo Geo feels great but I never had a ton of experience with one. The Neo Geo Pocket pad is surprisingly awesome though.

The only one I hate is Playstation. It's nice and accurate, but doing fast motions for long on one is hell on my thumb.

>> No.2726087

>>2726070
>calls the 360 pad shit, uses something worse.
>says he is top 10% in modern game of choice?

>> No.2726112
File: 230 KB, 518x659, WW_HC_web.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2726112

>>2726087
I've used many, many controllers over the years and the 360 pad is among the worst. At least in my opinion, some people can use them well and I commend them. But I find it super floaty and inaccurate.

The Madcatz pad is similar to a large Saturn one which I'm pretty used to and works well for me. It's not the best, but that's my point. You don't need the best, you just need what you can work well with.

And yes, Injustice. I'm in the top 10% of online ranked players. I went 2 wins, 3 losses against Forever King the week before he won Evo. I'm not amazing, but I'm good enough that the games are a hell of a lot of fun. Fighters have been one of my favorite games since the early days.

dig robot dig on xbl, come fight me if you doubt. I play a nasty Wonder Woman.

>> No.2726114

>>2726083
Ha, a choice between 360 and DC dpad? I dunno which I would choose. Both have caused me pain in the past. I'd be using a Saturn 3d pad for my dreamcast but the only adapter I know of treats it as a racing wheel, meaning no up/down on the joystick.

The ngcd has the same joystick as the ng pocket. Both are good stuff. I love kof r2 for on-the-go fighting games.

Same on the PS dpad. I want to get an adapter for DC to use PS2 pads, but I'm wary of trading one less liked dpad for another.

Are there any good 3rd party PS pads?

>> No.2726118

>>2726114
Yeah it's weird, but something about that DC pad was perfect for me. And that was after the Saturn which had been my favorite.

Funny thing with me since I've barely played in arcades is that I actually can't fight on a stick for shit. I got a hori off a friend and tried for about six months, but was never near what I could do on a pad. Just too much muscle memory I guess. So went back to the madcatz and that's been good since.

I don't know about good PS pads, I've heard the PS3's is nicer but I've barely used one. 360 fag.

>> No.2726183

>>2725985
>people that blame controllers complain about op characters, complain about 'spamming' moves, complain about 'cheap' tactics
Sounds like Smash tourneyfags.

>> No.2726332

>>2725942
Niggers can't afford joysticks, you fucking idiot.

>> No.2726346

Stop shilling your shitty hitbox in this thread you fuckboy

>> No.2726349
File: 189 KB, 634x309, PS2[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2726349

I'm Oliver Hay, the best Street Fighter in the world and I use a regular non-analog PlayStation controller.

>> No.2726906

>>2726183
I love raping whiney bitches like that
Then I beat them with their character
Then I beat them with the worst characters

Then they leave and I have no one to play with :(

>> No.2727089

>>2725947
Doesn't matter what color you are you're still a nigger and a faggot.

>> No.2727140

>>2726078
Fighting Commander 3/4 Pro dawg

>> No.2727196

>>2726078
the NGCD pad is nice (directional nub movement a bit too large maybe) however it has a fatal concept flaw, it has way too many moving parts producing a fine powder that clogs the switches.
Even worse, while PS2/3 versions use standard sized switches, NGCD uses some rare thin blue ones. Cleaning them is a total pain.

>> No.2727203

>>2726332
>Niggers don't steal things they can't afford
JIDF please

>> No.2727229

>>2727196
at least we have the PS3 version which is USB

>> No.2727612

>hurr execution and controller doesn't mean anything git gud
>proceeds with spamming the thread with shitty opinions about which is the best controller
Typical fighting fags

>> No.2727784

>>2727612
personal preference and comfort =/= objective advantage.

>> No.2727793

>>2727784
By having a personal preference you already say that the type of controller you use and execution plays a huge role, retard.

My point of the thread was that the whole fucking genre is just about finding the perfect controller/stick/whatever, and about being able to perfectly execute retarded input combinations in every situation. Everything else is just a cakewalk.

>> No.2727819

>>2726002
>>implying "top-tier" playing doesn't consist of retards spamming hadokens and tiger uppercuts for 90% of the time
Apparently you don't understand zoning.

>>2726005
>If i want to test myself then I play STGs
As someone who plays both genres extensively I think this is absolute nonsense, both are very much skill based genres and both require a dick load of practice to get good.

>> No.2727846

>>2727819
>both are very much skill based genres and both require a dick load of practice to get good.
It doesn't take much practice to be able to beat the average retard in an online match. It takes relatively much practice to 1cc an STG though.

And to become really good at fighting games merely requires to be able to perfectly execute dumb input combinations anyway. This does take lots of practice, but I personally find it is something pretty autistic to practice.

>> No.2727995

>>2727819
>Apparently you don't understand zoning.
Apparently the community has to come up with buzzwords to try and make cheap shit sound cool.

>> No.2728003
File: 1.46 MB, 240x232, 1430775923991.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2728003

>>2727846
>>2727995
>This amount of buttdevastation
>but I personally find it is something pretty autistic to practice.

>repeating the same exact fucking stage ad libitum
>you're not even playing against a human opponent
>Not autistic as fuck

Shit, I was wondering why my lunch tasted weird today even though I didn't use any salt, now I know why.

>> No.2728015

>>2727995
Apparently you don't understand the difficulty in making sure your inputs are 100% perfect in getting projectiles to come in with ever directional motion.

Also if they are doing the same thing over and over why dont you either A. Jump over it or B. throw projectiles at the same time to block it.

If you are truly better than they are you can defeat the simple and predictable tactic.

>> No.2728025

>>2725939
>Have a genre with unnecessarily complex controls specifically to prevent people from reacting to situations and throwing out moves faster
>Players pay excessive amounts for controllers specifically to allow them to perform these actions faster and more easily

It bugs me how they don't seem to see the contradiction in that.

>Play Smash
>Controls are designed to be as simple as possible to allow players to perform actions as quickly and rapidly as their hands can move
>Controls actually have analogue components that benefit from high precision in a way that digitally controlled fighting games (which are limited to on/off switches) do not
>Players all agree on standardised controllers so that there is no war to get off model controllers to exploit shit

>> No.2728028

>>2725969
>Move it back to crouch block
Wait, wut? You can do that?

>> No.2728041

>>2726112
PLAYS A DEAD AS FUCK GAME.

>> No.2728046

>>2728025
>Controllers specifically to allow them to perform actions faster and more easily

Fighting games were created as ARCADE games. The entire genre was made with the intended use of arcade sticks/fighting sticks to be the controller used.

Players are paying to pay with the controller that devs and programmers initially MEANT to play the game with.

The only reason that fighting games were even played with console controllers is that the market said they'd like to play their arcade favorite games at home for their convenience. Even STILL arcade sticks were made for old consoles so you could use the controls that were designed and intended for the game.

Smash didnt originate in arcades, was never in arcades (to my knowledge), and was designed SPECIFICALLY for consoles- of course it is going to play well with controller. It has no arcade roots.

>> No.2728081

>>2728046
Just because a game has arcade roots doesn't mean it must have unecessarily complex controls.
I can play every arcade game just fine with my controller. I do it all the time with STGs and there it just works perfectly. Sure an arcade stick might be even better, but it still works for me.

Not for fighting games though. Because there the controls just have to be totally uneccessarily complex. Often to the point where it is just completely retarded, like having characters with special moves with inputs which are almost exactly the same as inputs from other special moves, although there would be a shitton of other possibilities for inputs, so if you don't have a really good controller, you just constantly end doing totally different things with your character than you actually wanted.

>> No.2728094

>>2725942
>use shitty Xbox controller

Broly can't use his hands to play fighting games and yet he's still a good player and he uses an Xbox 360 controller. You have literally no fucking excuse. Git gud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83nSodg-HTU

>> No.2728106

>>2728081
>you just constantly end doing totally different things with your character than you actually wanted.
If you really end up doing that all the time you just have terrible input skills, it's not the game's fault.

Precision comes with training, the more you play the better and more precise you get in your inputs, just like any game.

>> No.2728119

>>2728094
Chun Li is also a very simple to play character. And if you already know that you have to limit yourself, then it also probably won't often happen that you constantly do things you actually didn't want. I do not want to limit myself though. I want to be able to totally play my character, and this just doesn't really work with a good controller.

>> No.2728146

>>2728106
I never said that I end up doing that all the time you retard. But don't act like you wouldn't also already have made a hadouken although you actually wanted to do a dragon punch. Or do a dragon punch although you actually wanted to do your super.

That's what constantly decides matches for me. When I can do what I actually wanted to do, then I also don't have much problems winning matches, but this just doesn't work with fighting games, because the inputs are just unnecessarily complex.

Go and try to 1cc an STG and tell me again that this wouldn't need input skills. I have no problem with input skills when 1ccing STGs. I have problems with the actual game there. But when you play fighting games, you actually do not fight against your opponent, you basically just fight against the stupidly retarded complex controls, in order to constantly being able to perfectly execute the inputs.

>> No.2728156

>>2725942
Happened to me when playing Skullgirls, except that I can beat a ton of people using a simple xbox controller.

I've actually built an arcade stick for the fun and because it looks kick ass, but I can't fucking play anything with it. I can barely dodge stuff on the first level of a shmup that I can comfortably 1cc. Installing an octogonal bumper helped a lot though, but I still need practice.

The only game where using an arcade stick helped was Virtua Fighter.

>> No.2728161

>>2728146
I fucking hate fighting games and inputs, but even I can see that your arguments are /v/ tier. You are meant to spend hours doong the motions over and over again until you can make them perfectly. People that play fighting games like that, you and I don't. Leave them alone to do what they want with their time and money.

>> No.2728162
File: 1.91 MB, 180x135, 1380028965775.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2728162

>>2728146
>But don't act like you wouldn't also already have made a hadouken although you actually wanted to do a dragon punch. Or do a dragon punch although you actually wanted to do your super.

It's not my fault that at your age you still can't do a proper quarter circle or tiger knee input, back when I was a kid I did have problems sure, but by the time I was 14 I never got problems with those.

As I said, you need training.
> I have no problem with input skills when 1ccing STGs.

Are you telling me STG are input heavy games? Seriously? having 8 directions and a few fire buttons is the same as a game with complex input strings as fighting games?
Like, you'd say that Gradius 3 or R-Type Delta are as complex as Guilty Gear or [email protected] in terms of inputs?

You're not just full of yourself, you're delusional as well. Next you'll say that harps or Hurdy-Gurdies are retarded instruments because pianos have better controls.

>> No.2728167

>>2728161
Well, fighting fags seem to have a different opinion. According to them execution is completely irrelevant here, just like the kind of controller is ostensibly irrelevant. That's why I made this thread you know. Because it's complete bullshit to say that these things would be irrelevant in this genre. Perhaps they are not that important anymore when you play on tournaments, but for online matches really good execution and controller will win you 90% of matches. The other stuff is not that hard to learn.

>> No.2728179

you all need to git gud

salty fucking queers

>> No.2728186

>>2728162
>It's not my fault that at your age you still can't do a proper quarter circle or tiger knee input
I can do every special move or combo in these games you fucking retard. But it's something totally different to do this all the time constantly perfect in the middle of a fight in every situation. You acting here as if you could do every combo or special move perfectly any time you want just makes you look like a retard.

>Are you telling me STG are input heavy games?
Yes of course they are. But not to the point where it is just completely backwards and retarded like in fighting games. In STGs you fight against the enemies, in fighting games you merely fight against the controlls, because they are just retarded.

>> No.2728196

A controller is a personal choice, when I got into fighting games I spent some time researching what would be the best choice to play with.

My findings are that it does not realy differ that much. All have their pro and cons. On a stick you have easier/quicker button inputs compared to Pad. On a Pad you can have quicker D-pad inputs, for instance the whole circle motion used for Zangief. Quickest input in general is on the Hitbox.

With all this being said, this only makes up less than half of all the skill required to perform well at a game.

Different games require different tactics, different characters require different tactics.

In the end it all comes down to personal preferences.

Fanatiq is insane on a pad with MVC2/3, Luffy won evo on a pad. Daigo/Momochi/Infiltration do insane stuff on a stick. In the end its all a players choice.

>> No.2728209

>>2728161
>Hours and Hours practicing

If you want to be a "competitive fighting game" player...yes. Because like every other thing in life the only way to get to be the best or even above average is to put time into it.

But the average video game play is able to adequately do these inputs without a lot difficulty on an arcade stick so much that they put the inputs on the cabinet marquees them selves.

>>2728167
Inputs are always important. The controller is just a tool that helps you to do your job, but if you truly have the talent you should still be able to do most of what you want.

A 5 star chef can still make an A-grade meal with knives from Walmart. But with thousand dollar cooking knives he can make A+meals because the tools make the job A LITTLE easier, but it is not world breaking.

>> No.2728217

>>2728186
Both STGs and Fighters require lots of time to be able to accomplish your goal.

A person new to STGs isnt going to be able to 1cc clear a game because they haven't developed the hand-eye reaction time and pattern recognition required to have regular success.

A person new to fighters isnt going to succeed first time because they dont know the tools/arsenal that opposing fighting character has, they dont know the proper counteraction, and they haven't yet developed the accuracy with their inputs.

They are just different skill sets. You've developed one and not the other yet.

>> No.2728223

>>2728196
>My findings are that it does not realy differ that much.
That's complete bullshit. I have an Xbox controller, because it is actually a good controller for the games I usually play. It has a nice design, has good analogue sticks, was cheap, has good buttons, and even a turbo function. The d-pad is actually also ok. In all in all I have no problems with for all kind of games, from arcade games, to modern games, every genre. Except for fighting games...

because in fighting games you retardly complex input combinations, and for these input combinations you need either a stick or a really good d-pad. Otherwise you are fucked. And finding d-pads good enough for this genre is really not easy.

>> No.2728229
File: 25 KB, 184x103, athena-roll-97.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2728229

>>2725939
Nah.

I use a PS1 controller for everything. It's not amazing, but it works. I'd ;ike to get a hitbox, but I can't be arsed to pay that kind of money for a controller.

>>2726002
just play KOF
rolling is a great mechanic that discourages spamming while not making projectiles completely useless (like 3S parries, where any idiot can stop just about every fireball that comes his way)
it's not the end all be all to everything (you'll happily end your roll right into a move if you spam it, and you can be grabbed out of it for abusing it), but it's a generally good mechanic all around

also, KOF's jumps are wonderful, shorthops over projectiles are beautiful

it does have its share of balance issues though (98 Iori is retarded, 2002 Athena is retarded and has an almost completely safe super, IIRC 98UM Lucky is amazingly good out of nowhere)
but other than the absolute worst couple characters in the game, you can do well with the majority of the roster in KOF

Hell, even in something like MvC2, you can do pretty damn well with a large portion of the cast, it's just that some characters are just easier to use for the same damage output or can do a lot more damage if you put in the time to learn them.
Balance is pretty hard, minor advantages can spiral out of control into completely shutting out some characters in actual play.

>>2725967
>With a hitbox you can execute things much faster than with anything else, while also still being much more accurate.
that's the selling point of the hitbox, and why it was made

>>2728223
The 360 pad is pretty terrible. It's oddly springy and doesn't play nicely with rapid direction changes.
When I was playing Guilty Gear with some friends, did 2xQCF and ended up with HCB,f somehow, I gave up on using that controller forever. Playing shmups on it is pretty bad too, due to it not dealing well with rapid direction changes. It's a bad d-pad. The rest of the controller is fine. Even the relatively crap PS style pad is better.

>> No.2728230

>>2728217
I play fighting games since years already... I started with Street Fighter 2 on the MD back in the days, and played then online on GGPO or fightcade. I play fighting games much longer than STGs actually, also online...

>> No.2728240

>>2728229
>It's a bad d-pad.
I wouldn't say that the d-pad is bad. It's just that fightng games are the only genre which require a really good d-pad. Every other game I play, I also can play with analogue sticks. But in fighting games this is not really doable (except for charge character sperhaps idk).

>> No.2728258

>>2728229
Athena is my favorite KoF character. She's pretty good. But I haven't played so much yet. This one kickboxer is also great.

>> No.2728270

>>2728230
Not to be a jerk, but if you've been playing fighting games so long either get better on controller and stop complaining, or get a fight stick and stop complaining.

Look, we can't all be the best at everything. Just deal- such is life.

>> No.2728312
File: 108 KB, 664x324, kof98cast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2728312

>>2728229
It's my favorite controller and the only one I like to
play fighting games on.
Actually love the dpad.

>> No.2728415

>>2728186
>But it's something totally different to do this all the time constantly perfect in the middle of a fight in every situation.
That's where skill lies, every idiot can do wonders against dummies, doing it in a real fight is where you show your skill.
>in fighting games you merely fight against the controlls, because they are just retarded.
Seriously, I'm making my dinner now and I don't want to taste your salt in it.

Fact is you're either just not good enough for fighting games or haven't found a controller good enough for you.

>> No.2728460

>>2726078
Best Controller ever.

>> No.2728556
File: 107 KB, 600x600, Gatorade-Prime-Pouch-Free-at-Kroger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2728556

>>2727793
You're a retard if you seriously think a controller is what allows someone to stomp you in a fighting game. Aside from very few exceptions that would be ridiculous to even try(like an Atari 5200 controller for example) the difference a controller makes is very minimal. It's like trying to claim someone managed to dash ahead of you in a race instantly because they had one of these while you were stuck with a bottle of water.

>> No.2728562

I use this to mild success. PDP versus pad. The dpad can blow out pretty fast if you try to use it like a normal dpad, but the controller is cheap.

>> No.2728578

>not one post from the "experts" addressing what an advantage the hitbox provides
>closest is mentioning that they're not widely banned
>proceed to insult anyone who expresses difficulty with certain types of controllers
>cite truly exceptional tournament players who were able to overcome controller handicaps, frame statements to imply this is the norm
>avoid the fact that the majority of tourney players bring their own controllers as a counterpoint to argument that equipment doesn't really matter
>gradually backpedal to acknowledge theoretical extreme cases so as to minimize appearance of making concessions
This thread.

>> No.2728602

>>2728578
The fact that tourney players bring their own controllers most of which are completely different from each other proves that equipment doesn't really matter. If controllers really made such a big difference they'd all just be bringing the best controller that the tournament allows instead of the wide variety of stuff you actually see. Now stop blaming controllers for your loss and start practicing more.

>> No.2728613

>>2728229
>Playing shmups on it is pretty bad too, due to it not dealing well with rapid direction changes. It's a bad d-pad.
Whilst i agree with this personally it's worth noting western shmup player Gus counter stopped Mushi futari ultra using nothing but the stick 360 pad, he is the only westerner and amongst a handful full stop who have achieved that level so it just goes to show people are clearly far to quick to blame their shortcomings on the controllers.

>> No.2728621

>>2728162
>Are you telling me STG are input heavy games?
Whilst i disagree with the other guy generally I have to chip in and say stgs are very input heavy but in a far different way than fighters, namely its more directional input that is more constant and twitchy but yeah it's a far cry from the input nature of fighters.

>> No.2728628

>>2728081
>>2728146
>>2728162
>STG

It's shmup you schmuck.

>> No.2728639

>>2727846
>It takes relatively much practice to 1cc an STG though.
It doesn't though a large percentage of stgs can be 1cced with some basic strategy and cheesing bomb use...it'd take the same amount of practice to become basically competent at a fighting character, Scoring in STGs is when the mission begins and that can last truly years depending on how far you want t push a game. I love both genres for what they are and this thread is honestly the first time i've seen clear hate for one camp coming from the other.

>> No.2728754

>>2727793
having a personal preference does not imply what you think it does. being able to input combinations is muscle memory, the difference between various types of pads and sticks is negligible. Chose one and practice.

As stated earlier, simply being able to execute combos is less than 5% of the skills required fro fighting games.
A top level player using a nes controller with only 2 buttons mapped. could likley still beat 99% of people.

>> No.2728767

>>2728167
Actually the other stuff is what tikes time to learn and alot longer to master.
Being able to execute basic moves, such as those you have problems with is the easy part, even 7 year olds online can do it. Every one except you. The controller is not the issue, it is simply your lack of ability.

>> No.2728836

>>2728217
>A person new to STGs isnt going to be able to 1cc clear a game because they haven't developed the hand-eye reaction time and pattern recognition required to have regular success.

Of course, but here you're putting a relatively high barrier on 'success'. Anyone can hop onto a shmup and progressively hone their skills until they can properly clear the game on a decent difficulty, the key being that until they do, they can still have fun dodging bullets despite that they aren't that good yet. This isn't the case with fighting games, because players won't be able to properly fight each other with the fundamentals of the game until they are consistent at technical stuff and have memorised a significant number of counter responses to various situations. This is totally ass backwards from practically all other genres, in which you start off playing the fundamentals and then progress to needing more technical understanding later on, there's no wall of complexity to be instantly hit by. What's worse is that a small margin of technical error frequently allows an opponent to repetitively use a given strategy in such a way that makes the game boring to both players.

Fighting game players assume that the only thing that matters is competitive tournament level play, and ignore any issue with any issue occurring below that by chalking it up to a player's grit or lack thereof.

>> No.2728872

>>2728836
>because players won't be able to properly fight each other with the fundamentals of the game until they are consistent at technical stuff and have memorised a significant number of counter responses to various situations.
>Fighting game players assume that the only thing that matters is competitive tournament level play
>Projecting this hard

I, and a lot of other people in the community fight for fun, the better you are the better and more fun the fight is, even unskilled players might be fun to fight, some of those are actually a lot of fun since they aren't completely aware of high play tactics and are generaly more impulsive and unpredictable.
If anything it's extremely high level play that becomes boring in most games because people are so used to the same general strategies they rarely think outside the box and stick to the usual stuff and BnB's, there are exceptions as in GG, but that's mostly because the game's meta is different from most.

I find much more boring to wade through bullet hells or memorize spawns or safe paths, that's why I'll never go beyond 1cc, because I become so bored I lose focus and trust me, I love stuff like ZanacXZanac, Parodius or Soldier Blade, but repeating the same stages over and over and over and over isn't comparable to fighting new people or honing your skills with regular sparring partners.
That's the main difference between single player and competitive games, on shmups there's a very high skill ceiling, in FGs there's no skill ceiling at all, you can't stop getting better.

But then again, you can't really compare competitive games to single player games, they're different worlds.

>> No.2729063

>>2726349
You have no eyebrows.

>> No.2729258

>>2728556
I never said a controller is bad by default. Ther are many controllers with good d-pads, but there are also many controllers where the d-pad just is not good enough. And that's the case with m current controller.

But anyway, I think I will just try to play on a keyboard actually. Because when you think about it, it's basically like playing on a HitBox actually.

But anyway... I still think the controlls in fighting games are often way too complicated for no reason, but it really depends on the game.

>> No.2729268

>>2728639
Does it really surprise you when an STG fan hates on fighting games? I've already seen many people who loved STGs and somehow disliked fighters, because fighting games are the genre whih basically killed STGs. Before Street Fighter came out, STGs were still the shit in arcades, but then suddenly noone played them anymore. So I think this really shouldn't surprise you.

I still play fighing games myself, because I actually still love them, but it's mor elike a hate-love relationship for me, for many reasons, from gameplay, to the controlls, the designs (many fighting characters look just retarded imo), to the community, etc

>> No.2729343

dont matter none of you fags are innocent
>hurr durr crouch and block mode engaged this genre is shit.
>if I see somone select cammy im not going to take advantage of the no rnged attack thing just to be a dick and get the W.

>> No.2729364

>>2728872
>But then again, you can't really compare competitive games to single player games, they're different worlds.
STGs are also competitive games. If you are really one of the top-players then you will play it competitively, because you will go for highscores competing with the whole world. Especially nowadays with online rankings.

I personally find multiplayer games are much more casual than single player games, because it really doesn't take much to win a good amount of matches in a modern fighting game online. Most people who play games are not good at them. It's the same with STGs... When you look at replays there from most people, you will also notice that they are total noobs and often can't even beat the first level. And those are the kind of people you will fight against in online matches in fighting games, which is really not hard to beat. It's much much more harder and more frustrating to beat an STG in comparison.

>> No.2729365

>>2728872
>That's the main difference between single player and competitive games, on shmups there's a very high skill ceiling, in FGs there's no skill ceiling at all, you can't stop getting better.

Uh, do you even play shmups? They're played competitively as well. There's no skill ceiling in sight for STGs as all the records are set by human beings and can still be improved if you're extremely dedicated (discounting counter-stops). And I would say that shmups are better for competitive purposes, because how good you are at your game is objective. The score you have represents your skill level at the game. But yeah, different kinds of competitive. I like the way shmups do it more than multiplayer games, because in a shmup everyone has to go through the exact same things which makes how good you are much more notable.

>> No.2729478

>>2725939
Not Retro
Take it to /v/
These kind of threads have been happening more than ever lately, we need more janitors.

>> No.2729483

Because you need to git gud.

>> No.2729508

>>2728041
Who cares?

>> No.2729531

>>2728754
>A top level player using a nes controller with only 2 buttons mapped. could likley still beat 99% of people.

I'd pay good money to see that.

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
reCAPTCHA
Action