[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games


View post   

File: 33 KB, 382x221, sfa3.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2624424 No.2624424 [Reply] [Original]

Why didn't Capcom port their CPS2 fighters to the Nintendo 64? Storage space wouldn't have been a problem as far as I know

>> No.2624428

In short:

>cartridges

>> No.2624430

>>2624424
I think it's because Nintendo hurt their relationships with other companies by staying with carts so they couldn't be bothered

>> No.2624434

>>2624424
probably a combination of Nintendo want to focus mostly on 3D!!!!!!!! and rejecting most non-3D games (did game companies learn nothing from the then recent failure of the Saturn?) and that it would probably be too much effort to port the games over, the system was notoriously hard to program for.

>> No.2624436

>>2624428
this games would have fit fine on carts

>> No.2624438

We had this thread a few months ago:

https://archive.moe/vr/thread/2451603/

>> No.2624439

>>2624436
these games*

>> No.2624445

>>2624424

I just imagined trying to play SFA3 with the stiff N64 d-pad and threw up in my mouth.

>> No.2624452

The N64 bombed in Japan where fighting games are more popular.

Limited cartridge space would have made them difficult to port.

Playing a fighting game with the N64 controller sounds like the worst thing in the world.

>> No.2624453

>>2624434
Why didn't Capcom port Street Fighter EX then?

>> No.2624458

>>2624424
Why should they have? The system had a smaller audience and a thinner profit margin. Japan was also still their biggest market during that generation, and the N64 failed to make a big impact there. There was no reason to port 2D fighters to that console.

>> No.2624459

>>2624445
>>2624452

Hey, at least the N64 controller has 6 face buttons, it's be better than, say, the PS or the SNES controller.

Also, do you know why the N64's d-pad is so stiff? because it's almost never used. Once you give it some more use, it becomes usable, just like the SNES d-pad. After many years of Mischief Makers and Bangai-O, my N64 d-pad is fine, but yeah I remember how it was when it was new.

>> No.2624467

>>2624453
Because the N64 didn't do well in Japan. Cartridges licensed and manufactured through Nintendo had a smaller profit margin, and third party publishers were wary of Nintendo after being forced to use their distribution channels during the FC/SFC days.

>> No.2624470

>>2624452
>The N64 bombed in Japan where fighting games are more popular.
no it didn't

>> No.2624479

>>2624467

did the N64 really didn't do well? I was just checking and it sold 5.54 mil in Japan, while Saturn sold 6 mil, it's not that big of a difference.
But yeah it probably has to do with costs, Capcom probably didn't see the need to go through the hassle of porting to the N64 and producing carts when they sold well on Saturn and PS. probably the SNES port of Alpha 2 was to take advantage of the SNES' big install base by 1996.

>> No.2624503

>>2624424
because the controller is a piece of shit?

>> No.2624506

>>2624503

It has 6 face buttons and a d-pad, so it's more than capable of handling a SF game. It wasn't the controller.

>> No.2624508

>>2624439
Profit margin on N64 games were much lower, though.

>> No.2624521

>>2624438
>implying you can step in the same river twice

>> No.2624526

>>2624521

Most of the times discussions on 4chan are all the same

>> No.2624527

>>2624506

I'm not that guy, but the controller is a piece of shit for any 2D games.

>> No.2624530

>>2624424
All n64 game have a blur filter over them.

>> No.2624532

>>2624527

What 2D games have you played on the N64? and what issues did you have?
The N64 controller has 6 face buttons which automatically make it a more proper controller for fighting games than many others that just have 4, and the d-pad, while not as good as the Saturn, it's still good, standard Nintendo d-pad. I don't see the issue.

I've played games like Killer Instinct Gold or Mischief Makers on the N64 and I thought it worked alright.

>> No.2624535
File: 28 KB, 280x198, WonderPJ2146.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2624535

>>2624530

?

>> No.2624543

>>2624535
Hmm. Never played that one. So I don't know if it had a filter on. It's my understanding that it was considered mandatory by Nintendo. You don't seem to know either, because you are posting a screen shot from an emulator.

>> No.2624589

>>2624535
>>2624543
I own an actual cart, can confirm the filter is there because there is literally no way around the filter:

http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Nintendo_64_emulators#High-level_vs._low-level_graphics

>> No.2624597

>>2624424
Because it didn't sell in Japan and Japanese devs really don't care about any system and won't support it unless it sells it their own country.

>>2624428
Nope. See above. Cartridges really only stopped RPGs from coming out on the system.

>> No.2624616
File: 1.45 MB, 3264x2448, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2624616

>>2624597
No , no no. Do any of you research before you spout nonsense. Google is your friends.

Max size n64 cart = 50mb
Max size cd = 700 mb

Hmmmm tough call... Oh wait no it's not. Tony hawk couldn't even fit music on the n64 version cause it was so limited.

>reason why RPGs were on CDs. Space
>reason only Saturn could play arcade perfect 2d fighters? Space and extra ram cause it actually needs more to display all the frames.

Tldr: please look shit up before you spout retarded nonsense.

Thanks bye.

>> No.2624629

Because N64 had shit RAM so those games would've run even more sluggishly and worse than the ones that got ported to PSX.

Saturn master race wins again.

>> No.2624636

>>2624629
The most 3d game on that spatarn is BUGS lol point less console youre mascot is CLOCKWORK KNIGHT

>> No.2624640

>>2624589

The filter is also one of the several reasons the N64 looks like absolute shit on anything but a CRT.

>> No.2624642
File: 240 KB, 828x668, 1403970085530.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2624642

>>2624636

>> No.2624645

>>2624636
Don't you ever fucking talk shit about clockwork knight! I will fucking end you! If I could hate you to death, you'd already be burning in hell faggot!

>> No.2624646

Wait.

Is this another 5th gen console war thread disguised as a Capcom CPS2 port thread?

>> No.2624648

>>2624636
Man, people this ignorant still exist? You'd think they'd have forgotten how to breathe and died off.

>> No.2624654

>>2624470
Japan was all about Saturn and PlayStation which they viewed as successors to the Super Famicom while Nintendo 64 a shit.

>> No.2624658

>>2624654

But the difference between N64 and Saturn units sold isn't that big...

>> No.2624662

>>2624640
For YEARS, I could never understand why my N64 looked like shit on my HDTV, but looked fine on any CRT, and at native res on my computer monitor (all things considered). When I learned about the VI filter, I was only met with more confusion as to why a company would create it, think it was a good idea, then send it into mass production.

But then again, this is the N64 we're talking about. I love it to death, but almost every design choice still baffles me to this day.

>> No.2624665 [DELETED] 

N64 kids should be banned for retarded shitposting.

>> No.2624668

>>2624665

:)

>> No.2624671

>>2624646

basically yes.

what? did you expect the 20-something posters from /vr/ to be able to discuss video games? Nah, they're not too far from the generation that posts on /v/, they only know how to console war, not discuss.

>> No.2624676

>>2624662
All of the design choices you think are baffling were not at the time. Hd was not a force at the time of the n64s release , and so they didn't design for it. filters help disguise ugliness and allow you to use cpu power elsewhere because you know a filter will help hide the jaggy lines. Really all you guys need to do is read more, and you could have a far better understanding of technology.

>> No.2624678

>>2624636
>muh 3D
literally who cares, all polygon games from that gen controlled like shit with awful cameras. it was the beautiful 2D sprite games that people still play

>> No.2624681

>>2624671
The problem isn't that that they are a certain age, it is that you are expecting an enlightening discussion on a 4chan board.

>> No.2624682

>>2624678
>literally who cares

people in the 90s, when you were still unborn/a baby.

>beautiful 2D sprite games

muh indies, am I correct?

I love 2D, but 5th gen is not the gen you're looking for if you want to play 2D stuff. Saturn has some pretty good arcade ports, but you're still going to find a lot more 2D games on the 4th gen than on the 5th.

>> No.2624684

>>2624681

Nah I'm not a fool, I know there won't be any enlightening discussion here, but at least it could be less stupid. Console war, especially 5th gen, is boring as shit.

>> No.2624693

>>2624616
Max N64 cart size was 64MB I think. I remember reading about the RE2 port when it came out and how they had to compress the shit out of it.

>> No.2624707

>>2624479
>did the N64 really didn't do well? I was just checking and it sold 5.54 mil in Japan, while Saturn sold 6 mil, it's not that big of a difference.

N64 sold 5.5 million from 1996 to 2003, Saturn sold 6 million from 1994 to 1998.

>> No.2624709

>>2624682
>3D babby calling others babies
Oh the irony. Go back to your mario, kid.

>> No.2624712

>>2624479
>did the N64 really didn't do well? I was just checking and it sold 5.54 mil in Japan
Considering the PS1 sold 20 million in JP alone, yeah, the N64 was not as well received there as in the US. And the Saturn had better software sales due to the otaku audience, all those dating simulations and JRPGs on that system.

>> No.2624714

>>2624709

I'm actually telling you that you should play more 4th gen if you want 2D, retard.
I would also advice you to play more 3rd gen too, but I bet it's too "dated" for your millenial tastes.

>> No.2624719

>>2624682
>muh indies, am I correct?
nigga what?

>> No.2624720

>>2624616
>>2624693
I'm seeing 64mb as the full cartridge capacity.

>> No.2624721

>>2624693
64MB was indeed the largest commercially released cart size. A grand total of four games used it:

Resident Evil 4
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Pokemon Stadium (NOT the Japanese original release, but the one that we got with all 151 Pokemon)
Pokemon Stadium 2

The two Pokemon Stadiums required it for the voices from the announcer (he has lines for every Pokemon, every gym leader, every attack, and some certain scenario fluff lines), Conker's Bad Fur Day for the full voice acting, and all the assets used in the game / multiplayer, and Resident Evil 2 for the obvious reason.

Fun fact: The Ocarina of Time debug ROM was 64MB in size because it was completely uncompressed. The commercially released OoT is 32MB in size, and when it was released, was not only the largest N64 game, but it was theorized that no other game was going to need the sheer, raw, unbelievable space of 32MB for a long time, let alone 64MB.

They weren't wrong.......

>> No.2624723

>>2624714
There are tons of good 2D and 2.5D made in the 5th gen, you ignorant dipshit.

>> No.2624724

>>2624707
>>2624712

Yeah yeah I know PS1 was king, and that Saturn was 2nd place in Japan. But I still think N64 wasn't a "failure". It had a modest 3rd place.

>> No.2624728

>>2624723

Nah, there are some, but there's definitely more on the 4th and 3rd gen. But yeah I guess they're too "dated" for your millenial tastes, "dipshit".

>> No.2624729

>>2624671
Kill yourself

>> No.2624732

>>2624729

what about that post triggered you?

>> No.2624734

>>2624728
What the fuck are you even talking about? I was calling 3D games from the '90s dated, not 2D games. Just fucking kill yourself.

>> No.2624735

>>2624724
It had a "modest" third place? What other fucking consoles existed in the fifth gen besides those three? The Jaguar? The 3DO? The fucking PC-FX? They're jokes now, and they were bigger jokes then.

>> No.2624736

>>2624424
The earlier games possibly could have fit in a cartridge, but they would've had to order them in advance (and possibly lose a lot of money if they misjudge the amount they sell), and their profit margins would have been smaller even if it sells well.

That later games that had a roster of 20+ people would have been problematic to fit in carts, they'd need some of the biggest and most expensive carts.

So there was no financial reason to port the games.

>> No.2624737

>>2624734

Yeah whatever millenial, go play Tomba and stay quiet.

>> No.2624807

>>2624712
>And the Saturn had better software sales due to the otaku audience, all those dating simulations and JRPGs on that system

It's sad that Sega of America refused to localize those games and only cared about the nigger/white trash demographic.

>> No.2624814

>>2624720
>>2624693
Theoretically they could have bigger cartridges with bank switching, but that wasn't a viable idea unless you wanted to pay $120 a game. Also the N64 had the misfortune of being out in the late 90s during a period of high memory prices.

>> No.2624826

>>2624721
The largest PS1 game for comparison was (I believe) X-Files which occupied four discs for more than 2GB of data.

>> No.2624834

>>2624826
Pretty sure Riven is five discs.

>> No.2624871

the n64 didnt have the RAM to do it unless you had an expansion. The saturn and n64 have roughly the same amount of ram in the stock models. (The saturn does technically have more its just like 512kb is used for CDrom functions something the n64 wouldnt have to bother with). They could have done what they did with perfect dark though and only unlocked some of the games functionality without the ram boost. Then allowed the expansion pack owners to have the perfect port with no missing animations or anything.

>> No.2624896

>>2624826
>The largest PS1 game for comparison was (I believe) X-Files which occupied four discs for more than 2GB of data.

It wasn't the biggest, but close enough. Wing Commander 4 used 2.4 gigs, Tokimeki Memorial 2 is 2.2 gigs, and Riven was 5 discs but I dunno how much of each disc it used up.

>> No.2624901

>>2624453
The arcade release was built on hardware very similar to the PS1, lending itself to a PS1 port.

>>2624424
Cartridges were still very expensive for publishers and consumers, especially in comparison with the new alternative.

>> No.2624909

>>2624826
X-Files was actually a port of a PC game that was even larger (eight discs). The PS1 version was considerably trimmed down.

>> No.2625309

Alright there's a lot of bullshit in this thread.

First thing, on N64 you can disable texture filtering for that pixel sprite look with a single line of code. Secondly, you can disable VI anti-aliasing also with a single line of code. Ideally, it would be nice to have an in-game menu that would let the user turn these two things on/off at will.

Next, CPSII games are well below the 64MB cartridge size limit (some are as little as a few MB).

Another thing, unlike on Saturn and PS1, N64 has a unified memory architecture so there is no limit to the amount of memory that can be used for video. That's determined by the programmer. N64's 4MB of RAM is actually 9bit, the 9th bit is used for anti-aliasing coverage. If you ditched it, you're actually looking at a little extra space. FYI CPSII only had about 1.5MB of RAM. Also when you're loading these kinds of games from a cartridge instead of from CD it means you don't have to use as much RAM since streaming is easier.

The real reason they didn't port CPS2 fighters to N64 was simply the extremely high royalty dividends. Nintendo asked for massive royalties at that time. Even if you went with a small cartridge. And the N64 wasn't popular enough to overcome that huge cost hurdle.

The only reason to develop for N64 was if the ambitions for your game were such that the 3D hardware was more suitable than for PS1 or Saturn. Anything open-world is pretty tricky to do on PS1 well due to its difficulty with large polygons, lack of built-in mipmaps, perspective-correction, z-buffer, etc.

>> No.2625418

If anything, I'd think they'd have worked better on the N64 than the PS1 or Saturn. As mentioned, all CPS2 games were under 64 MB. And because they're cartridge-based, like the original hardware, it means that data could be loaded and unloaded on the fly, rather than having to load everything you needed for the fight into the RAM beforehand as on the CD-based systems. That would mean no animation cuts or lack of tag-teaming.

>> No.2625436

>>2625418
In theory, sure. The financial reasons for them doing so are the same though.

>> No.2625507

>>2625309
>Nintendo asked for massive royalties at that time
I can understand this from a business standpoint. They needed huge royalties to stay profitable as a company unlike Sony who had tons of other product lines to bring in the cash so their video game division was not as essential to their survival.

>> No.2625551

In short: the N64 was an unpopular piece of shit. The PS3 of its generation, if you will.

>> No.2625553

>>2624616
There is Street Fighter Alpha for SNES. It uses a custom chip for compression and they cut some frames here and there, but if they could do that on a SNES, catridge space on N64 wouldn't be a problem. I think the problem lies in the fact all sprites are handled as textures, therefore delicous 3 point texture filtering.

>> No.2625561

>>2625553
>I think the problem lies in the fact all sprites are handled as textures
All sprites are handled as textures on PS1 and Saturn (backgrounds excluded) as well.

Bilinear texture filtering is optional on N64. The hardware also supports nearest neighbor.

>> No.2625563

>>2625507
Nintendo had been maintaining that practice since the NES days. Back then they had 90% of the market before sonic came around... I guess you had no choice but to pay them their fees. Doing that in the era of N64 really limited their library.

>> No.2625603

>>2625309
> high royalty dividends
Derp how do you explain other capcom games on n64. Yep your retarded also

>> No.2625613

>>2625561
It seems you are right. They managed to get Mortal Kombat Trilogy on the N64 without it being a blurry mess.

>> No.2625621

>>2625603
>how do you explain other capcom games on n64
The N64 clearly was not their priority, duder. That doesn't mean they were going to ignore it completely. Nintendo's publishing and manufacturing policies during that era are well known.

>> No.2625629

>>2624424
I think the n64 handled sprites differently than the saturn or ps1. capcom are also extremely lazy and probably didnt think it was worth it to port them to n64.

>> No.2625641

>>2624424
They probably had the Japanese arcade market in mind, and the N64 was the worst performer of the three in that territory. Plus cartridges, like people already said.

That's not a bad question though--come to think of it, I can't recall any N64 games that had hand-drawn sprites. Just digitized stuff like Mischief Makers.

>> No.2625646

>>2625641
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOIx_EQ7xko

>> No.2625653

>>2625646
Oh wow, that is gorgeous. I saw someone post this game in that "10/10 games nobody played" thread, thought it sounded interesting but never saw it till now.

>> No.2625660

>>2624459
>Hey, at least the N64 controller has 6 face buttons, it's be better than, say, the PS
I don't think so.

http://kotaku.com/the-2014-evo-champ-just-won-using-a-ps1-controller-1604535870

>> No.2625681

>>2625660
>kotaku
Good job.

>> No.2625748

>>2624724
>it wasn't a failure
>comes last

OK m8, whatever you want to believe.

>> No.2626079

>>2625603
>Derp how do you explain other capcom games on n64. Yep your retarded also
Capcom only released on N64 a 2 year old port of Resident Evil 2, a 3 year old port of Mega Man Legends, and another Tetris clone. What kind of fucking commitment is that?

>> No.2626109
File: 866 KB, 1034x593, RetroArch-0820-104659.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626109

>>2624424

Because it probably would have looked like this with all of the shit mandatory filtering.

>> No.2626110

>>2626109
we've been over le filter multiple times already in this thread

>> No.2626168

>>2626079
>Yep your retarded also
you're

>> No.2626174

>>2625748

Last? that'd be some other console like the Jaguar. N64 is still part of the big 3 of the 5th gen (which is, by the way, a very shitty gen, my least favorite save for the Treasure titles on the Saturn and the N64)

>> No.2626183

>>2624543
>It's my understanding that it was considered mandatory by Nintendo.

What in the actual fuck are you talking about? There is no "blur filter".

>> No.2626184

>>2625660

A nuts pro player could also win a tournament with a PC keyboard. That still doesn't mean the PS controller only has 4 face buttons and is not the best option to play Street Fighter, which requires 6 buttons. Not to mention the awkward playstation segmented d-pad.

>> No.2626187

>>2626183

He's talking about the Anti-Aliasing, which only affects 3D games.
Even if this is a retro board, we're still on 4chan, most people here talk because it's free. Don't expect actual hard/soft knowledge around here man.

>> No.2626201

>>2625646
Correct me if I'm wrong, but these don't appear to be sprites in the traditional Capcom fighting game sense.

>> No.2626216
File: 1.01 MB, 2800x7289, 42648.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626216

>>2626201

That's a Konami game.
The sprite animations for that game is actually quite impressive. The bad thing is that it was never released in America.

>> No.2626223

>>2626187
>>2626183
It's the output stage. Without going into painful detail if you rendered at say 320x240, the N64 video would stretch and blur it on the way to the TV encoder. There was no way around this other than to set the render resolution to hi-res which would consume to much RAM for most purposes. Emulators don't emulate that fuck off stupid TV encoder so they can appear crisp and sexy.

>> No.2626268

>>2626223
>the N64 video would stretch and blur it on the way to the TV encoder
No, the VI anti-aliasing has nothing to do with the resolution upscaling.

It works by interpolating the background and foreground colors of internal edges.

The foreground color being the original pixel output, and the background edge being an interpolation of fully covered nearby pixel colors.

This might do some very nasty shit to a 2D game and nobody in the right mind would turn it on.

>> No.2626317

>>2626268
>This might do some very nasty shit to a 2D game and nobody in the right mind would turn it on.

And that's the crux of the issue. Why would you turn blurry mode on? Because if it's not on your game didn't pass quality assurance. Maybe if you were CAPCOM you could dictate terms, but us lowly porters had to use the defaults. And anyway even without the filtering you didn't have proper resolutions to work with. 320 would still be scaled up just not blurred so you'd get shimmery transitions from aliasing. The only way to get proper 2D out of the provided libraries was to software blit everything to a full hi-res buffer and tile the end result to the screen. And then nintendo QA would reject it because fuck you.

>> No.2626323

>>2625681
>I reject truth because I don't like the website that told it!

>> No.2626335
File: 56 KB, 621x465, 07-04-es2401.jpg_141358524.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626335

>>2626323

>truth
>4 face button pad is better than 6 face button pad for Street Fighter because a chink could win a tournament with an old PS controller

>> No.2626336

>>2624532
i can tell straight off the bat you dont even play fighting games, a lot of players dont even care about having 6 face buttons and using the shoulders for fierce and roundhouse is not a problem at all

btw not all fighting games even used 6 buttons, it was really only capcom that did

tekken, virtua fighter, dead or alive and all the neo geo games would be \ are fine on a 4 button pad

i dont know why you're trying to argue this so much

>> No.2626338

>>2626317
>Because if it's not on your game didn't pass quality assurance
There are plenty of games that passed Nintendo quality assurance without anti-aliasing turned on. Fairly sure the so-called "rule" was only there for 3D games anyway.

There were specific microcodes for 2D games available, and they don't have z-buffer as a feature since it's literally useless for 2D games as there's no z-coordinate (N64's first-stage anti-aliasing blending algorithm REQUIRES the z-buffer to be enabled, and the second stage which takes place at the VI requires data from the first stage).

Talking about anti-aliasing for 2D N64 games is literally the stupidest thing ever because the hardware literally cannot support it.

Of course there are people who don't know the difference between anti-aliasing and texture filtering...

>> No.2626341

>>2626336
In his defense, OP was specifically asking about Capcom fighting games and why they weren't ported to the N64.

>> No.2626349

>>2626336

Having 6 face buttons is not the most important thing for a fighting game on a pad, but it's the 2nd most important.
The most important thing was the d-pad. Sega always did the better ones for fighting games, and since having 6 face buttons comes handy, Sega also did their controllers like that (since MD model 2 anyway).
Yes, I know SNK and other Neo Geo games used 4 buttons, I actually do play fighting games, been loving the genre since Yie-Ar Kung Fu.

As for why I argue this so much, I don't. I'm just saying the N64 controller was not the reason Capcom didn't port the games, it was more oriented toward costs of cartidge production and distirbution, and lower profits. Are you even reading the thread? You're the one who keeps insisting about the controller being a problem.

>> No.2626351

>>2626335
a 6 button pad wont magically make you better at street fighter jesus fucking christ

>> No.2626356

>>2626351

I am not saying that, dear.

>> No.2626370

>>2626338
Actually just a correction to this post. It actually is possible to enable anti-aliasing for 2D sprites without z-buffer using the blending unit in a specific mode.

But only for external edges, nothing that the VI unit can affect.

>> No.2626392

>>2626335
The truth is that it was successfully used to win one of the biggest fighting game tournaments, not "it's better." In any case, responding with "oh no it's kotaku" is pretty fucking asinine.

>> No.2626410

>>2626392

To be honest, I was not the anon who responded with the kotaku thing (and I think he wasn't even trying to argue, he was just making fun of you for linking Kotaku).
As for that pro player, as I already said, he could probably win a tournament even with a PC keyboard. It all comes down to knowing the game. Most pro players use arcade sticks, anyway.
Still I won't accept that a 4-face button pad is superior to a 6-face one, specifically speaking Street Fighter anyway, we're talking about SF and other CPS fighting games ITT, right?

>> No.2626429

>>2626410
By the same token, I'm not the same guy who linked to the kotaku article, just highlighting how childish it is to reject a relevant story because "ew it's from a website I don't like."

>As for that pro player, as I already said, he could probably win a tournament even with a PC keyboard. It all comes down to knowing the game. Most pro players use arcade sticks, anyway.
What are you doing? You deny that controllers affect a pro player's performance (thereby denying that this guy's PS1 preference means anything), and IN THE NEXT BREATH assert that a different kind of controller is what most pro players prefer (thereby granting them legitimacy).

>> No.2626436

>>2625660
Was he playing against a dude who was using an N64 controller, because that would be something

>> No.2626445

>>2626429

Alright, I was just pointing out that he may not have inquired about the article itself.

>You deny that controllers affect a pro player's performance (thereby denying that this guy's PS1 preference means anything)

I'm not actually saying that, and I actually don't know why that guy choosed the PS controller. Maybe he thinks it brings him luck? Maybe he is used to play with it since he was a kid and never felt the need to use any other? I don't know. I'm just saying that because there's this rare case of a guy beating a tournament of SF with a PS controller, doesn't automatically means most people don't prefer something different.
And yes, most pro players prefer arcade sticks. Don't look at me, it's what the majority of the FGC prefers, and the kind of controllers these games were developed for, at least the old ones that started in arcades.

At any rate, what are we even arguing? That a 4 face button controller is a better option over a 6 face button one for Street Fighter? That the N64 controller was the reason why Capcom didn't port the CPS2 games to the system?

>> No.2626454

>>2626445
>I'm just saying that because there's this rare case of a guy beating a tournament of SF with a PS controller, doesn't automatically means most people don't prefer something different.

No one ever said that's what it meant. If anything, I think this case was meant to prove that the PS1 stick isn't automatically/inherently shit, even if you and/or the majority think so.

>At any rate, what are we even arguing? That a 4 face button controller is a better option over a 6 face button one for Street Fighter?
That's what you want to argue, but because that is an opinion (one I don't really care about one way or the other), I'm not. All I ever pointed out was that rejecting the factual report based on the website it came from (and yes, that's what whoever I originally responded to was doing) is ridiculous, and you've dragged it into other territory.

>I'm not actually saying that
If you're going to stoop this low, this is where I get off.

>> No.2626457

>>2624453
Street Fighter EX ran on hardware built on the PS1, so porting it to that was the no-brainer for console release.

>> No.2626465

>>2626454
>I think this case was meant to prove that the PS1 stick isn't automatically/inherently shit

Who said the PS pad was inherently shit? All that was said (in response to someone who claimed that the reason there wasn't ports of fighting games by Capcom on the N64) was that the N64 controller has a d-pad and 6 face buttons, making it even more capable of SF games than SNES or PS controllers. But nobody called the SNES or PS controllers shit, or at least I didn't.

>That's what you want to argue

it's what the thread is about

>> No.2626474

>>2624424
>Why didn't Capcom port their CPS2 fighters to the Nintendo 64? Storage space wouldn't have been a problem as far as I know

>>2626465
>This thread is actually about whether or not 4 button controllers are worse than 6 button controllers, because I say so.

>> No.2626481

>>2624424
Because the controller is a trainwreck for fighting games?

N64 controller is one of the worst designed controllers i've ever seen. The analogue was a piece of shit.

>> No.2626487

>>2626474

No, the thread is about why the N64 didn't got CPS2 ports by Capcom if even the SNES and the PS did.
And some retards, like >>2626481, claim that the reason was the controller instead of actually possible reasons like the cartidges production costs and small profit margin.

>> No.2626492

>third-party support on post-snes nintendo console

>> No.2626497

>>2626487
How isn't the controller being shit not a possible reason.

It is just as likely as any other reason.

Think you need to get over yourself.

>> No.2626502
File: 226 KB, 620x465, streetdfighter-ex.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626502

>>2626457
>Street Fighter EX ran on hardware built on the PS1, so porting it to that was the no-brainer for console release.

You brought a very interesting point.
Assuming there was enough consumer interest in having a Street Fighter entry on N64, what if a port of Street Fighter EX was developed by NST, not unlike Ridge Racer 64? The name "Street Fighter 64" also appeared at the other thread.

>> No.2626509

>>2626497

>he seriously believe that the reason Capcom didn't port Street Fighter to a console was because of the controller being "shit" despite it having a d-pad, like the SNES and PS controllers, and 2 more face buttons than those 2, like the Saturn controller.

It's not as likely as the other actually possible reasons, anon. Your hateboner for the N64 controller won't make it magically a possible reason.
Get over yourself and stop shitposting.

>> No.2626518
File: 198 KB, 1920x1080, qa1y6zvrsxs3veen1hku.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626518

OP needs to stop being a faggot
>nintendo demanded exclusivity for all titles because they were scared of sony. many companies told nintendo to go fuck themselves because they didnt like the idea of being told what to do. if you get a exclusive title its because a company wanted to do it not because "i iz nimtembro yew dew wut i seyz oar yew dun maik monies"

>> No.2626523

>>2626518
>nintendo demanded exclusivity for all titles because they were scared of sony.

What? Street Fighter games were never exclusive until SFV (er... I mean console-exclusive)

>"i iz nimtembro yew dew wut i seyz oar yew dun maik monies"

I legit can not read this much niggerspeak, please treanslate.

>> No.2626524
File: 1.64 MB, 1920x1080, SFIV-iOS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626524

>>2626497
Not the guy you're arguing with but it's not a possible reason and it's not just as likely as any other reason. If Capcom thought that it was worthwhile/profitable to put their fighting games on the N64, they would have. The controller has nothing to do with it.

>> No.2626525
File: 169 KB, 1600x1200, UFO-Aftermarket-6-button-controller-001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626525

>>2626497
Not the other guy, but the controller alone didn't stop Capcom from porting Super Turbo to 3DO.

Hell, SFII was such big deal Sega actually went and released an official six-button controller for Genesis. Pic related for 3DO.

If the N64 controller were to be such a problem for fighters, I'm pretty sure there'd be third party controllers, not unlike the ones released by Hori and Madcatz (poor build quality notwithstanding)

>> No.2626528

>>2626524
>>2626525
Yeah you both make good points.

At least you weren't a fucking cunt about it like the person I replied to.

>> No.2626537
File: 65 KB, 240x240, icon_004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2626537

>>2626528

Sorry if I hurt your feelings man, glad you understood.

>> No.2626540

>>2626525
That controller has the weirdest button labeling I've ever seen.

>> No.2626638

>>2626518
>i iz nimtembro yew dew wut i seyz oar yew dun maik monies

Why did you choose that as your approximation of Nintendo's "voice"? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to have a Japanese accent?

>> No.2627970
File: 45 KB, 167x212, takeda01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2627970

>>2624430
>>2624434
I think it's important to note that the N64, while powerful, was quite difficult to develop for. At the time, Nintendo's R&D thought an overly complex environment would represent the evolving technology and this would filter shovelware-makers to a minimum. Add this to the poorly written N64 documentation (I can only imagine Capcom bothering to write custom microcode), higher manufacturing costs for cartridges, the waning support for 2D fighting games in a post-SFII era and we can have a better picture of that time.

It's really a shame, because we probably would have a better Street Fighter Alpha 2 for a Nintendo console - but I still think it wouldn't be able to push something like X-Men vs Street Fighter, not without the Expansion Pak, at least.

Good thing they recognized their mistake, so their next consoles were way more accessible to developers.

>> No.2628187
File: 2.02 MB, 1751x1704, Mando_N64.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2628187

>>2624424

>> No.2628189
File: 146 KB, 406x415, 484949499.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2628189

>>2628187

here we go again

>> No.2628194
File: 820 KB, 1632x604, it's almost like it's actually a normal controller not made for aliens with 3 arms! XDDD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2628194

>>2628187

>> No.2628197

>>2628187
Turn the controller clockwise a bit, make DF into D, and boom, 6 button arcade controller.

>> No.2628230

>>2628194
Is this concept really so difficult or are guys like >>2628187 just trolling at this point?

>> No.2628240

>>2626335
You're fucking dumb as shit mate. Do you even understand who he had to beat at that tournament? He pretty much devastated the worlds best players including daigo umehara and he did it with a low tier character. You'l never get it because you don't play shit to an even amateur standard.

>> No.2628243

>>2626184
>A nuts pro player could also win a tournament with a PC keyboard. That still doesn't mean the PS controller only has 4 face buttons and is not the best option to play Street Fighter, which requires 6 buttons. Not to mention the awkward playstation segmented d-pad.
Pretty much all the worlds top tier players were there with joysticks and all got beat! At that level you need a control method that isn't missing inputs or proving hard for execution so i'd say the ps1 pad is clearly great and that guy proved it, as for your pc keyboard bullshit well yeah they could but they haven't it's always been joystick that is promoted as being the best input for competitive level fighting game play. The dpad is actually really good and a familiar choice amongst some high end players in the shmups community also but hey for the sake of your ill informed plen tier playing arrogance keep pedaling out those bullshit arguments.

>> No.2628248

>>2626335
Evo is basically the world championships for fighting games it's a bit more than just some chink (who isn't even a chink) winning some comp on an odd choice of controller. Everybody else that day had what you consider to be the "superior" control method for street fighter and they all fucking LOST you fucking dumb cunt.

>> No.2628274
File: 199 KB, 1920x1080, ゴキブリ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2628274

>>2628240
>>2628243
>>2628248

Whoa there, stop spamming, guy.

I get it, you're trolling trying to force the meme that the PlayStation original pad, not the dualshock but the very first original PS pad is "the best evar XD" because some tourney stuff.
Yes, I've seen good players beat other good players with PC keyboards. Maybe if you played more with actual people, and not watch streams of Daigo Umehara like the unskilled NEET you are, you'd see it more often.
I've seen my brother beat one of my friends who is pretty good at SF, and my brother was using the PC keyboard, while the other guy was using a Razer arcade stick.
Even if you're not trolling and you really do love that weird, awkward segmented d-pad of the Playstation, then good for you, but stop poisoning the board with your fanboy bullshit.

The N64 controller is not the reason CPS2 games weren't ported, full stop.

>> No.2628279
File: 62 KB, 568x600, Saturn_Original_Model2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2628279

>>2628243
>The dpad is actually really good and a familiar choice amongst some high end players in the shmups community

1/10, this is a joke right? high end players won't even accept anything other than the original PCB and a good stick. Otherwise pic related is the best.
The playstation d-pad is good for JRPG menu managing, I'll give you that.

>> No.2628352

>>2628279
>1/10, this is a joke right? high end players won't even accept anything other than the original PCB and a good stick. Otherwise pic related is the best.

Ok lets review this then laugh at your ignorance.... Gus only counterstop of mushi futari ultra in the west = stock 360 pad, Akai katana WR = stock 360 pad, Tviks god tier Gradius player = ps1 controller, Pegboy another super strong gradius player = ps2 dpad, Prometheseus europes best ddp and daioujou player = keyboard, Mrmonkeyman is the only great player i know of that uses the saturn pad so yeah you don't know wtf you're talking about. Any actual decent shmup player myself included will tell you that the best control method is the one you are most comfortable with and as for your bollocks about PCB and stick if you actually been in the community as long as i have you'l notice hilariously it's usually the cabinet/pcb/shiny stick guys who are just collectors posing as hardcore and often total shit at playing the highest majority play on hardware ports or mame with a few purchasing a pcb of a game that particularly focus on.

>> No.2628360

Why do you care so much about gitting gud at this genre anywa? They're old and dying!

>> No.2628363
File: 51 KB, 387x400, G445202_b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2628363

>>2628352
>>2628279

okay shmupfags go back to your containment thread.
The N64 controller is not the reason the CPS2 games weren't ported, nobody cares about shmup speedrunners using Xbox controllers for their bullet hells.

>> No.2629126

>>2628194
you have the button layout backwards, poser

>> No.2629158

>>2624532
The stick is garbage, breaks down fast, is too small, the C buttons are too stiff. I love the n64 but be realistic anon. You're just baiting.

>> No.2629210

>>2629126

Yeah, because everyone always uses the default layout, poser :^) you get the idea scrub.

>>2629158

But you wouldn't use the stick to play 2D fighting games. And the c-buttons aren't stiff, at least none of my controllers have stiff c-buttons, quite the contrary. The d-pad is stiff at first, but once you start using it it becomes more malleable, like the PS or SNES d-pad. In fact, the N64 d-pad is pretty much a slightly bigger SNES d-pad. Understandable if most N64 controllers have stiff d-pads since very few people played 2D games on the console.

>> No.2629460

How many games did Capcom make on the N64? How many weren't ports from the PS1/Saturn? I think Capcom was sick of Nintendo's shit after SNES and hopped onto the PS1 and Saturn.

At least that could be a possibility, though I personally wouldn't know.

>> No.2629494

>>2629460

What "nintendo shit after SNES"? they were always free to release their games on any system they wanted.
Street Fighter II (and all its versions) were popular on both Sega Genesis and SNES.

>> No.2629525

>>2629494
>>2629460
Not the person you're replying to. However this is my humble opinion. I genuinely believe that Capcom chose the PlayStation due to the market that the PlayStation was aimed and was popular with, the ease of developing for the PlayStation and fact that it used CDs

>> No.2629556

>>2629460
it's silly to think of companies having feelings like a person

>> No.2629697

>>2629556
And it is silly to think that they aren't composed of people. Stop being a smart ass.

>> No.2629794

>>2628194
>n64 controller
>2d fighters
nope. play mortal kombat or killer instinct with this, the 'c-button' buttons felt so fucking awkward.

>> No.2629815

>>2629794

I did, nothing wrong with them. They're not much smaller than the y, x and z buttons on the Saturn pad, and they're not stiff at all like other anon said, in fact they feel real fine. I could understand maybe if you had really fat thumbs but even so I don't think that'd be a problem.
To each their own anyway, some people like the PS controller, some prefer the Xbox, I prefer the Saturn one for fighting games, but the N64 doesn't seem like a bad option, I'd like to get a USB one and try it with MAME and stuff.
The matter of the topic, anyways, is that the N64 controller was not the reason why these games weren't ported. As another anon already said, even touch phones or ipads got their version of Street Fighter IV. Capcom just doesn't care as long as it becomes profitable.
PC Engine also got a version of Street Fighter II back in the day, and the PCE controller only has 2 buttons (and of course there were official and 3rd party controllers with 6 buttons)

>> No.2630107
File: 62 KB, 1187x676, hori_fighting_edge_64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2630107

>>2629815
>To each their own anyway, some people like the PS controller, some prefer the Xbox, I prefer the Saturn one for fighting games, but the N64 doesn't seem like a bad option

I agree with you.

Just photoshoped this for giggles. I couldn't imagine myself actually using such a beast to play Deadly Arts or something.

People are focusing too much on Street Fighter Alpha, but there were other CPS2 games that would work amazingly well on N64. Just imagining how Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara with full 4-Player co-op would be really awesome.