World Without Playstation

[Anonymous No.2603954]

Bare with me: Let's just say that Sony never stepped into the ring to make game consoles, and we had Nintendo head to head against Sega again.

Without PS there to kick kill Sega and Nintendo, Who would come out on top?

[Anonymous No.2603958]

>>2603954
Sega does what Nintendon't.

[Anonymous No.2603959]

The Nintendo 64 wasn't all that far behind the Playstation over here. It already killed the Saturn, so without the Playstation, it would have been a straight up massacre.

[Anonymous No.2603964]

>>2603958
Plus Sega's library runs laps around Nintendo's and it would've gotten all the games that *had* to be CD format like FFVII etc.

Basically Sega would reign supreme and still would be #1 to this day because Nintendo fucked up at a critical turning point in gaming and was playing catch up until the Wii. Which only worked out because of a gimmick although they would still own the handheld realm as always, that's a given.

[Anonymous No.2603965]

>>2603954
Video games wouldn't be as mainstream as they are now.

[Anonymous No.2603967]

It's hard to say, they both screwed up pretty bad.

Without the Playstation, SEGA woudln't have panicked and thrown in a bunch of extra processors, so the Saturn would have probably come out significantly weaker, albeit easier to program for.

It would have had a massive headstart on the N64 with no competition. And they probably wouldn't have rushed it out earlier so launch titles like Virtua Fighter and Daytona might have come out looking better.

Probably the Saturn in the end, it would have had almost 2 years to itself unopposed.

[Anonymous No.2603979]

They could have co-existed perfectly, like SNES and Genesis did before that.

[Anonymous No.2603984]

>America
N64 would rule over Saturn, Dreamcast would do way better and trump the Gamecube. Sega might even still keep making consoles after that.

>Japan
Saturn wins by a longshot, has a good long reign and the Dreamcast does very well.

It would also have the consequence of FF7 either being on the Saturn and having the JRPG boom of that generation, or being on the N64 and not really achieving any boom because it's severely weakened/censored.

[Anonymous No.2603985]

The only reason I could see the playstation not existing was if the cd drive for the N64 came into fruition

[Anonymous No.2603990]

I might be remembering this wrong but SEGA's decision to shoehorn in 3D into the Saturn at the last minute was motivated by the Playstation. So if Sony never got into the race and SEGA had gone 2D powerhouse and Nintendo had gone full 3D, SEGA would almost undoubtedly have lost.

But assuming that Sega had made a console with 3D capabilities it would almost certainly win. The devs were fed up with the limited storage of the cartridges at that point, and everyone would jump ship to SEGA, just like what happened with the Playstation. The first few years there were a lot of games that were cross platform between Sony and Sega, but eventually most devs gave up on the Saturn, so it's not hard to imagine that most games we know from the PS1 library now would just be Saturn exclusives.

[Anonymous No.2603993]

It would have been even worse for Nintendo than it was.

[Anonymous No.2603998]

>>2603990

This is of course, assuming that SEGA would act rationally.

Unfortunately they proved over the decades that they aren't very good at that.

[Anonymous No.2604001]

The Saturn would have ended up with a weaker CPU, but would have possibly get some cartridge upgrades for it beyond memory expansion. It also would may have lasted a year or two longer, since they would have had less pressure to do super pretty 3d.

Dreamcast would have came out in 1999 or 2000 and would have been more powerful; possibly including the T&L unit from the Naomi 2.

>>2603990
>I might be remembering this wrong but SEGA's decision to shoehorn in 3D into the Saturn at the last minute was motivated by the Playstation.

They only changed the central CPU and did some minor additions to the VDP1. It would have been unable to transform as many polygons, but otherwise it would have been about the same, visually.

[Anonymous No.2604005]

>>2603984
>FF7 happens on the Saturn
>it results in the jackoff behind the American division eventually getting kicked out sooner, and more of Saturn's japan library appears in the US
>A lot of JRPGs that would've been on the PS1 end up on the Saturn, some better but some with worse graphics because of how hard it was to program.

I'd be okay with this.

[Anonymous No.2604009]

>>2603998
Just the mere fact of Bernie Stolar never being fired from Sony and going over to lead the Saturn is reason enough to know that Sega would undoubtedly have won.
The question is of course if Kalinski would still be in charge of SoA. I think with or without Sony, if Kalinski was able to lead SEGA how he wanted to, the company would probably flourish. But then again, it all depends if he was going to push for the 32X further, that was a huge mistake. BUT THEN AGAIN, a big part of it being a huge flop was because of SoJ trying to sabotage the project.
Revisionist history is a big mess.

[Anonymous No.2604014]

>>2604009

A lot of SoA's failures can be attributd to SoJ being a jealous bitch about previous successes.

[Anonymous No.2604016]

>>2604001
I was under the impression that the Saturn couldn't even do 3D at that point.

[Anonymous No.2604019]

>>2603965
This would be a dream come true.

[Anonymous No.2604026]

>>2604009
See I get what you're saying, but a niggling feeling in my head tells me that as long as SEGA of Japan still exists, they'd fuck it up somehow. Because boy are they good at that.

[Anonymous No.2604028]

>>2604019
>no dudebro shooters
>no pay 2 win shit
>SEGA and their franchises flourishing
>instead we live in this nightmare Universe

[Anonymous No.2604034]

Withotu the Playstation no console would have sold 100 million consoles that generation.

The Saturn would have done much better, but I dont see it selling more than the Genesis.

I live in a third world country, and the first Playstation had easy piracy + was a cheap cd player.

Would Final Fantasy have been a Saturn 2d games with 2d sprites and animated cut scenes, or an N64 game with 3d models and only in game cut scenes?

[Anonymous No.2604035]

>>2603990
It was motivated by the fact that Virtua Fighter was the hottest game in Japan at the time. They wanted it to be the Saturn's killer app.

[Anonymous No.2604037]

Sega Saturn, because easier to pirate on, at least in Europe.

[Anonymous No.2604038]

>>2603967
>And they probably wouldn't have rushed it out earlier so launch titles like Virtua Fighter and Daytona might have come out looking better.
The thing is, just the fact that they were full 3D games with texture mapping was impressive as hell back then. As a kid I had those games as launch titles and my mind was fucking blown. Even though they obviously could look better, (as seen in VF Remix and Daytona USA CE) just the fact that I was playing 3D games in a home console it was fucking amazing. As the years went by though and we saw what the consoles were capable of, we look back at those games and find them really silly (Daytona USA's draw distance specifically), but I don't think it would have made a difference if they were improved or not.

[Anonymous No.2604048]

>>2604026
Yeah that's always a factor to be considered. I heard a podcast with that guy that wrote the Console Wars book, and when he went over to Japan to talk to some of the SoJ people, to this day there's still a lot of resentment for SoA he said. Those fucking dudes are just irredeemable, 20+ years later and their butts are still sore. The Japanese high business class is so fucking weird.

[Anonymous No.2604049]

>>2604016
Neither the Playstation nor the Saturn can do 3d, they just re-size a sprite in the correct shape, and draw them in the correct order from bottom to top, so it looks like a 3d scene.

It's why you have so much jerking, when two polygons overlap and the system can't decide how they overlap (either one or the other must be completely on top or bottom).

You do all 3d calculations on the CPU, in software. Then you sort out the polys from farthest to viewer, to closest to viewer. Then you draw those with the sprite engine.

That's how both systems work. The only difference is that the Playstation had a stronger sprite engine (like, 4x faster, with better colours and more transparency effects), and an extra chip to offload part of the 3d transform and sorting to. Saturn just did all that sorting on the CPU, that's why the slave SH2 was important.

With a weaker cpu, the Saturn could still *draw* the exact same amount of 3d, but it could not *calculate* where to put or draw them. Basically you'd be only limited by how much of a math whiz you are at translating 3d. But you could still use the graphics chip to draw 500 000 untextured polygons per second, like the machine specs say so.

[Anonymous No.2604052]

>>2604038
That's true. And without superior looking stuff on the PS1 like Ridge Racer to compare it to it probably would have been even more impressive .

[Anonymous No.2604053]

>>2604034
>I live in a third world country, and the first Playstation had easy piracy + was a cheap cd player.

Saturn also had very easy piracy. If it was as popular as the Playstation, it would have been even easier, since everyone and their mother would know about the swap trick or have access to modchips - the same way the Playstation had.

[Anonymous No.2604056]

>>2604053
I never heard of the Swap trick back then though, I was under the impression that it was a method only discovered way after the Saturn was dead

[Anonymous No.2604065]

>>2604048
>20+ years later and their butts are still sore
You don't see any of the irony in this statement, do you? Kalinske still cries over it every chance he gets, and people like you just ape him blindly. 20+ years later.

[Anonymous No.2604067]

>>2604048
>The Japanese high business class is so fucking weird.

Nah it's basically just SEGA. The other companies are held back by Japanese business practices and trying to work them outside of Japan, but at least they don't actively sabotage their non-Japan branches out of pettiness.

[Anonymous No.2604075]

>>2604065
Why wouldn't he if he feels wronged? You're applying the inverse logic as if he had some merit. If the facts that we know about the situation are true, Kalinsky did nothing wrong to piss off SoJ, but SoJ on the other hand are completely unjustified in their actions.

If what we know is true, Kalinsky has every right to have a sore butt. SoJ doesn't.

[Anonymous No.2604076]

>>2604065
I'd be upset too if SoJ had pissed away everything I'd worked for for seemingly no reason.

[Anonymous No.2604097]

I don't know if I'd like to live in a world without Playstation
On one hand Sega would still be making consoles and good games
On the other we would never have the PS2

[Anonymous No.2604101]

>>2604076
>spent an entire decade as the country that was on top of the world
>competing with the other biggest name out there in your field
>make a branch in another nation
>this branch full of FOREIGNERS is better at doing your job than you are
>they're making you look like they should be in charge
>destroy them from the inside as a result

Oh it was for a reason, just an incredibly petty, childish one

[Anonymous No.2604102]

History has already decided this war. The N64 sold much better than the Saturn and had better selling games.

The only way the Saturn wins is if you go, "Saturn gets all the PSX games." You can't do that because it's just mere speculation. Nothing says those games wouldn't have gone to Nintendo.

I still prefer PSX the best in the generation. N64 is my second favorite because of great first party games like Mario 64, Banjo 1+2, Conker, etc. It is a mystery to me why so many people love the Saturn. It has so few games that weren't better on PSX.

[Anonymous No.2604104]

>>2604102
most of saturn's good games never left japan

[Anonymous No.2604106]

>>2604097
>On the other we would never have the PS2
Cool. I hated that fucking system. Don't get me wrong, one of the greatest game library of all time because Sony managed to sell it to everyone, but I'd rather have been playing those games on all of the other sixth generation systems. I hate its murky graphics, the endless load times, the shit sound and how cheep the DualShock feels.

[Anonymous No.2604109]

>>2604104
Even discounting imports and it's short lifespan, the Saturn had an impressive amount of great games that made it stateside.

[Anonymous No.2604114]

>>2604102
Probably because you're completely ignorant of the Saturn's incredible library and the kind of person who thinks Banjo and Conker are good games.

[Anonymous No.2604116]

>>2604106
Yeah, I personally like Sega's consoles a lot more than Sony's.
RIP Sega Saturn Controller.

[Anonymous No.2604120]

>>2604102
>You can't do that because it's just mere speculation.
Everything about this thread is speculation numbnuts
Considering that there was a lot of multiplats between sony and sega in the first years and also the fact that both share the CD-ROM drive and along with it the extra storage capacity compared to the N64, it's not a completely unreasonable position to hold that sega would probably be the one to get the PS1 games.

[Anonymous No.2604124]

>>2604106
>and how cheep the DualShock feels.

I have never, in 12 years, managed to break a Dualshock 2. And I drop controllers onto my wood floor all the fucking time.

Meanwhile I'm currently on my third Dualshock 3.

[Anonymous No.2604125]

>>2604106
>I hate its murky graphics, the endless load times, the shit sound and how cheep the DualShock feels.

I am speechless, not even going to argue your hateboner.

[Anonymous No.2604127]

>>2604049
There's a lot of bullshit in this post, but I'll give you points for trying.

>Neither the Playstation nor the Saturn can do 3d, they just re-size a sprite in the correct shape
Distorted sprites is sort of how Saturn's VDP1 operates, but absolutely not how the PS1's GPU works.

>It's why you have so much jerking
No, the jerking is caused by a lack of sub-pixel precision in the coordinate system.

>when two polygons overlap and the system can't decide how they overlap (either one or the other must be completely on top or bottom).
That's because the consoles lack (hardware) support for a z-buffer, and so have to sort per polygon (or far more commonly, per group of polygons) which can often lead to mis-sorts.

>Then you sort out the polys from farthest to viewer, to closest to viewer.
No, the programmer can choose how the polygons are sorted. They can determine in what way display lists are handed over to GPU or VDP1. The painter's algorithm is only one possible way.

>and an extra chip to offload part of the 3d transform and sorting to
I assume you're referring to GTE, that didn't do sorting, only transform and lighting.

>Saturn just did all that sorting on the CPU
On that note, the Saturn did have an extra chip that could assist with polygon transformation, but it wasn't nearly as useful as GTE.

>With a weaker cpu, the Saturn could still *draw* the exact same amount of 3d, but it could not *calculate* where to put or draw them
No, it would be more accurate to say Saturn could generate display lists as large as PS1, and also sort at least as well, but couldn't transform as well or fill the screen with them.

[Anonymous No.2604128]

>>2604102
>Nothing says those games wouldn't have gone to Nintendo.
Good luck fitting CD-ROM sized games in a cartridge.

[Anonymous No.2604134]

>>2603954

Microsoft would have just taken up more space when they stepped in.

[Anonymous No.2604138]

>>2604134
>Microsoft
>Taking up more space
>Without help from Sega

[Anonymous No.2604140]

NO CONTEST

[Anonymous No.2604143]

>>2603954
Nintendo could easily destroy Saturn on a manufacturing price perspective.

Saturn has 9 separate processors on its board, and 6 separate RAM pools.

N64 has 2 separate processors on its board and 1 RAM pool.

[Anonymous No.2604153]

>>2604143
What about the PC-FX or 3DO?

[Anonymous No.2604160]

>>2604124
Oh sure, Dualshock 3 is even worse. But I've gone trough 2 Dualshock 2 controllers and keep finding bad ones at friends and relatives.

>>2604125
Nothing to argue, just an opinion. It's not even that I dislike Sony, hell, they had the best system last gen. But I had been more than fine with Microsoft or Nintendo or even Sega beating them at their game during the sixth on the strengths of their systems and how well they played their games in comparison.

[Anonymous No.2604163]

>>2604153
>PC-FX
I don't think it would have been too expensive to produce, particularly as they were using their own in-house CPU, but the video chip in that system is positively antiqued compared to the N64's one. Might have had a decent chance if it was just a Saturn vs PC-FX war.
>3DO
See above, similar story. I know the prices were pretty crazy at first, but if they got it under control, might have done alright in a Saturn (only) war.

[Anonymous No.2604169]

>>2604163
I don't see the N64 releasing any time sooner than it eventually did.

[Anonymous No.2604178]

>>2604128
Aside from FMVs, Audio quality and shit, the actual game ROM in a disc has a rather small filesize.

[Anonymous No.2604181]

>>2604169
Having a console out earlier doesn't necessarily give a win (see: Wii U). It's all about whether you are able to capture a good chunk of marketshare before your competitor arrives.

The fact is that for 3D games the N64 would make the Saturn look like a joke, and would likely be able to sell for a lot less too. If Nintendo was really desperate they could sell N64 hardware at cost price. If Sega tried matching N64 cost price with the Saturn, they would be literally losing hundreds of dollars per console sold ala Microsoft and the original Xbox. Except without the massive cash reserves.

[Anonymous No.2604182]

>>2604181
>ala Microsoft and the original Xbox. Except without the massive cash reserves.

Yeah, MS didn't have to care if they were losing money on each console. They were completely unchallenged in the PC world, the Mac had been basically dead in the water for years. They could fund whatever wasteful project they wanted.

[Anonymous No.2604191]

>>2604178
Things that were pretty much in vogue at the time, like it or not. Not to mention texture and sound effects variety. Voice acting alone *almost* flies out the window with the N64, very few games managed to afford it except for a couple of lines.
I think the biggest question here is if Squaresoft would jump ship to SEGA or not.

[Anonymous No.2604192]

>>2604181
Saturn was the same price as the N64 when the n64 came out.

[Anonymous No.2604194]

>>2604191
>I think the biggest question here is if Squaresoft would jump ship to SEGA or not.

They never would've if the N64 CD thing came to be

[Anonymous No.2604197]

>>2604194
This. It's hard to put into words how much Nintendo fucked up by going with cartridges.

[Anonymous No.2604198]

>>2604181
PCE , 3DO or Dreamcast seem like a more apt comparisons for early birds losing. The Wii U didn't offer much over the PS3 or Xbox360.

[Anonymous No.2604203]

>>2604194
Well if the N64 CD came to be I don't think SEGA or Sony would ever had a chance to begin with, so that's kind of a moot point since that never happened.

[Anonymous No.2604204]

>>2604203

Well this whole thread is about speculation so there's no harm in bringing it up.

[Anonymous No.2604205]

>>2604192
>Saturn was the same price as the N64 when the n64 came out.
1) N64 was being sold at a healthy profit per console sold at launch, they had to lower it a bit when PS1 was proving unassailable, but they never lowered it to cost price
2) Saturn was already being sold at a loss to match the price of the PS1. Sega were trying to sandbag sales of the console. Why do you think Sega's finances were so absolutely boned by the time the Dreamcast came out? Now imagine what would happen to Sega's finances if they tried matching N64 cost price (which was actually a fair bit lower than PS1 cost price).

[Anonymous No.2604212]

>>2604204
Yeah sure I agree, but we're trying to stick to the facts as possibly as we can. There's no reason why Nintendo would go for the CD-ROM if Sony never entered the race, which is the scenario OP is proposing. As a matter of fact not having TWO cd-rom based systems pressuring them in the market would probably strengthen their resolve that the cartridge would be the way to go.

[Anonymous No.2604218]

Would have been a draw.

[Anonymous No.2604228]

>>2603967
pretty much this
A cheaper, simpler Saturn would have probably done well in that market, with the massively overpriced 3DO as it's only competitor for a few years.

>>2604143
3DO honestly could have had a chance, other than the fuck-awful pricing its business model imposed on it and the fact that it allowed some irredeemable garbage to be released for it.

>>2604178
True. You're still looking at over 40-60MB of game though, which wasn't going to do well on 32MB cartridges (64MB carts were expensive).

>>2604163
>PC-FX
>might have had a chance
it's a fucking beefed up SuperGraphx with hardware FMV decoding and more background layers

it stood no chance
it's a 1992 era design, released almost as-is in 1995
There's no 3D hardware on the machine. It's not even designed to be able to brute-force out a decent amount of polygons in software, 32X style.

>>2604001
did Sega change the CPU?
I distinctly remember reading that Sega was always going to use the SH-2, and actually entered into a deal with Hitachi to get first pick right off the line once it was in production. I remember reading something about how the V60 was very briefly considered, except it wouldn't have been fast enough for the Saturn's purposes, since unlike the Model 1/2 designs, the Saturn couldn't afford the DSPs they used for all the heavy 3D number crunching.

[Anonymous No.2604234]

>>2604228
>There's no 3D hardware on the machine.
It shouldn't need that. 3D was largely a terrible gimmick in the 90s.
They should rather have upped the resolution for better 2D games.

[Anonymous No.2604241]

>>2604234
>3D was largely a terrible gimmick in the 90s.
Meh, I know it's all down to preference, but I disagree. Personally, 2D already reached whatever highs it could achieve during the 4th and even a bit of the 5th gen.

[Anonymous No.2604245]

>>2604128
You rang?

Seriously though, most ps1 games would fit fine on a cartridge with a bit of compression here and there and losing all the shitty fmv videos.

Honestly, aside from RPG's the fmv's added basically nothing to those games and look pretty shitty in retrospect. Pretty much the whole ps1 library would benefit from shedding them (again with the exception of rpg's).

[Anonymous No.2604247]

>>2604228
>it's a fucking beefed up SuperGraphx with hardware FMV decoding and more background layers
I only speculated it might have a chance on price. Much like the PS2 was still happily selling for a few years after the PS3 came out due to the latter's obscene price. As a healthy niche, I should clarify.

[Anonymous No.2604270]

>>2604245
Well sure in retrospect we can honestly say that the FMVs at the time were pretty shitty, specially the saturn ones which had horrendous quality even compared to the PS1, but the point is that the devs were constrained by very limited data storage for too long and really wanted to crazy with it. Not to mention that's when they started experimenting with more "cinematic" elements and in the least really needed the voice acting, for better or for worst. I'm not arguing what's the best approach here, just what would have been more likely to happen.

[Anonymous No.2604274]

>>2604234
>3D was largely a terrible gimmick in the 90s.

A terrible gimmick that sold consoles and games like hotcakes.

3d games were all anyone was interested in back then. Look at the 10 top selling games globally from that time period and you will notice not a single one is 2d.

Saying the first 3d games were gimmicks is like saying the first movies with sound were gimmicks. Yeah, they may have had synchronization issues and the sound quality was terrible for the most part, but they still provided audiences with a more immersive experience and provided the blueprint for the future of the medium.

Besides, while the games may look rough in retrospect with their low resolutions and choppy framerates, they were still the pinnacle of entertainment technology at the time. I remember having my mind fucking blown the first time I saw Mario 64 in action. Nobody had seen anything like it, and the fluidity of your interactions in the 3d world set the new industry standard.

[Anonymous No.2604286]

>>2604270
That's a good point, and the industry was moving into cinematic game territory at the time. I think that was a natural evolution of the push to 3d. People were beginning to see games as more of an immersive and entertaining medium rather than just fun gameplay. I think the wild success of FF7 is evidence enough of that. I remember being blown away the fmv's in that game (Square being one of the few companies to really pull them off well).

I really see 2 possible outcomes - either the Saturn would adopt the best-selling franchises of the ps1 and become the rpg powerhouse of the generation, which would keep it afloat in international markets as well as Japan, or the industry would have held off on cinematic game development for another gen and we would see similar game lineups on those two systems as what we really got. The Saturn would be a 2d powerhouse that would outsell the n64 in Japan where arcade style games were still huge, and the n64 would see more international success in markets where 2d games fell out of favor.

[Anonymous No.2604291]

>>2603959
lowqualityb8.jpeg

[Anonymous No.2604295]

>>2604234
It's easy to say that now.

At the time? Almost no one was buying new 2D games by '95. This is an era where magazines (and the people who read them) proclaimed the death of 2D.

[Anonymous No.2604301]

>>2604102
>History has already decided this war. The N64 sold much better than the Saturn and had better selling games.

N64 was present in all parts of the globe from 96/97 till 2003 or so.

Saturn was only around from 95-96, plus a weak 97 performance in most parts of the world (and maybe 5 games in 98). In Japan it was there from late 94 to late 98, and actually overtook the N64.

If the Saturn was present on the market for the same amount of time, it would have at least equalled the N64. Would have been the same as the MD vs SNES.

[Anonymous No.2604309]

>>2604291
How is that bait? I believe he's talking about the US, in which case everything he said is true. The n64 was basically neck and neck with the ps1 for a while here, the ps1 outselling it but not my an enormous margin like in other markets. The Saturn was a very distant third.

[Anonymous No.2604310]

>>2604102
> Nothing says those games wouldn't have gone to Nintendo.
I think over two years of Sega being the sole credible force of that gaming generation says those games wouldn't.

[Anonymous No.2604317]

>>2604102
>Nothing says those games wouldn't have gone to Nintendo.
Plenty of them went to the Saturn, despite the N64.

[Anonymous No.2604318]

>>2604102
Saturn NA availability: 1995-1998
N64 NA availability: 1996-2003

Gee, I wonder why N64 sold so much better.
>>>/nintendronecirclejerk/

[Anonymous No.2604320]

>>2604301
>If the Saturn was present on the market for the same amount of time, it would have at least equalled the N64. Would have been the same as the MD vs SNES.

Only if they could have gotten 3d games working better on the system. That's really what people wanted in the late 90's. Not enough people cared about arcade ports to move Saturns, at least not in North America.

[Anonymous No.2604323]

>>2604310
This in a sense. Publishers were tired of dealing with Nintendo, their high dev kit costs and dictatorship level meddling and "quality" control. Furthermore, it was harder to program for the SNES than the competition, a trend Nintendo carried on with the n64. In short, Nintendo got too cocky after the success of NES/GameBoy, and is still paying the price in a sense.

[Anonymous No.2604337]

>>2604323
>Furthermore, it was harder to program for the SNES than the competition, a trend Nintendo carried on with the n64
It's even harder to program for Saturn than N64. Yes, I know there was that one Treasure guy who said it wasn't the case, but he was talking about 2D games (the one area where Saturn is good).

[Anonymous No.2604340]

>>2604102
>You can't do that because it's just mere speculation.
this whole thing is hypothetical speculation fuckface

[Anonymous No.2604346]

>>2604318
The n64 was outselling the Saturn in NA from the start. The length of availability doesn't really factor in here, the n64 and ps1 just offered a better platform for 3d gaming.

Saturn sold 80k units in its first 5 months.

N64 sold 350k units in its first 3 days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64#Sales

http://segaretro.org/History_of_the_Sega_Saturn#North_America

[Anonymous No.2604364]

>>2604346
Yeah, and the Saturn was outselling the N64 in Japan by a long shot.

[Anonymous No.2604373]

>>2604337
Yeah, 3D on the Saturn was a bitch, but you could do wonders with it and its constraint if you had the technical wizardry to do so.

Both the Saturn and n64 being a bitch to program for and the later's more expensive dev kit are two large reasons why PlayStation won that generation.

[Anonymous No.2604376]

>>2604364

Japan is a relatively small market compared to everywhere else.

[Anonymous No.2604380]

>>2604364
This is true, but the post I was replying to was referring specifically to availability in North America.

[Anonymous No.2604384]

>>2604364
SEGA pls. I know you think Japan is the only place that matters and that's why you intentionally sabotaged your foreign branches, but the rest of the world is important too.

[Anonymous No.2604416]

>>2604127
>Distorted sprites is sort of how Saturn's VDP1 operates, but absolutely not how the PS1's GPU works.

The PS1 can do three-point sprites (as well as 4-point ones) and that's its only advantage in that regard. Neither have depth information, neither have perspective correction: they draw resized sprites.

>No, the jerking is caused by a lack of sub-pixel precision in the coordinate system.

There can be no sub-pixel precision, even on a modern system, since all you do is transform a jumble of vectors, from an observers point of view, into a comparatively low resolution framebuffer. And also apply texturing etc. on the way.

Regardless I think what you are trying to say is that neither systems were capable of doing floating point math, which would be correct, but in regards of "stable" polygons, it is merely an obstacle, not a deciding factor. There were 32bit games that had very smooth polygon animation, but not even those could not escape z-infighting, which causes a lot of jerking.

>the consoles lack (hardware) support for a z-buffer

That's what I meant in the first place.

>No, the programmer can choose how the polygons are sorted.

Well obviously you can sort in any amount of ways, but both the GPU and VDP1 need them sorted from farthest to viewer to nearest. Otherwise you get objects in the back overlapping objects in the front, see picture.

>GTE didn't do sorting

Yes it could, look up GTE commands AVSZ3 and AVSZ4.

>the Saturn did have an extra chip that could assist with polygon transformation, but it wasn't nearly as useful as GTE.

Yeah, it was barely used, that's why I didn't mention it.

>it would be more accurate to say Saturn could generate display lists as large as PS1,

I was comparing the pure graphics-drawing (VDP1) performance of a Saturn with its original specs, which would remain the same even without the two SH2s. (texturing would be marginally slower due to another quick fix added to the VDP1)

[Anonymous No.2604419]

>>2603984
This. The Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan by a small margin. It was the only generation that Sega did better than Nintendo in their home turf.

[Anonymous No.2604421]

>>2604138
>Microsoft
>Taking up more space

I think that was meant to be a veiled "xbox is huge" joke.

[Anonymous No.2604441]

>>2604228
>did Sega change the CPU?

Yes.
The two bits of info we know for sure about the prototype Saturn, is that it had a NEC V60, and that they added a few small fixes to the VDP1 (the latter is documented in the dev docs).

What we don't know is whether they added the DSP later on as well. Also, it is speculated that they threw in an extra 1 mbyte RAM on a slow 16-bit bus as well, but this is speculated merely by looking at the designs and IC numbers.

There was also a rumour for the Jupiter, a cart-only Saturn, but that was shot down very early by one of the Sega top guys.

>>2604320
>Only if they could have gotten 3d games working better on the system.

It wouldn't have necessary need 3d games, it would've just needed GAMES to begin with. That was the major problem. It had 5 or 4 games released in North America for all of 1998, while in Japan it had hundreds of titles.

If Sony was around they probably would have gotten FF7 as well. That one would've sold like hotcakes, graphics or no.

[Anonymous No.2604534]

>>2604416
>GTE commands AVSZ3 and AVSZ4.

Oh and to just be absolutely clear: this didn't do sorting on its own, but it generated you a per-polygon averaged Z value, that you could use to build your sort list very fast.

[Anonymous No.2604535]

>>2603954
Sega would have come out on top because they wouldn't have fucked up the Saturn's hardware from panicking over the Playstation.

[Anonymous No.2604569]

>>2604005
>he thinks it was Sanders' fault that the US didn't get many Japanese games

The guy was a scapegoat, even if they had someone else in charge SoJ were being massive cunts at the time because they were mad over how much better the American division handled the Genesis making it nearly impossible to cooperate with them.

[Anonymous No.2604575]

>>2604274
>10 top selling games globally from that time period and you will notice not a single one is 2d.
Turns out the hottest seller was Pokêmon Gold and Silver.
It may also depend on how you count late SFC titles like DQ6.
It's correct that there were no best selling 2D games on the PS1. N64 had practically no 2D games anyway and Saturn sold only as many units as the best selling PS1 games (and the best selling Saturn games were VF and Sega Rally).

[Anonymous No.2604576]

>>2604569
Shit I meant Stolar not Sanders. I'm terrified what would happen if Bernie Sanders handled the US division of Sega.

[Anonymous No.2604612]

>>2604384
>SEGA pls. I know you think Japan is the only place that matters
Are you high nigga, Saturn was the only console of theirs that sold well in Japan. They always depended on their overseas sales.

[Anonymous No.2604630]

>>2604612

Yeah and they got butthurt when SoA was able to handle business better than they could.

[Anonymous No.2604634]

>>2604630
Preaching to the choir

[Anonymous No.2604640]

>>2604575
I obviously meant on home consoles as handhelds are not relevant to this discussion.

Anyway, here is the source I was using: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_games_(fifth_generation)

[Anonymous No.2604692]

Did the existence of the Playstation have an impact on the use of CDs and cartridges in the Saturn and N64 respectively? What if both systems used one or the other?

[Anonymous No.2604759]

>>2603990
Sega didn't shoehorn 3D into the Saturn last minute at all. That console was designed to do 3D from the get-go. Heck, Sega even considered using some parts that ended up in the N64 (eg, the MIPS cpu).

[Anonymous No.2604760]

>>2603990
>I might be remembering this wrong but SEGA's decision to shoehorn in 3D into the Saturn at the last minute was motivated by the Playstation. So if Sony never got into the race and SEGA had gone 2D powerhouse

Where does this myth come from? It was obvious before the Saturn that Sega was moving onto 3D when you look at all the arcade games they were releasing about a year or two before the Saturn came out.

[Anonymous No.2604786]

>>2604760
Probably a mixup with the CPU situation. Sega planned the Saturn to do 3D from the start, but added an extra CPU in the console at the last minute when it realized that the competition was significantly more powerful.

[Anonymous No.2605053]

>>2604106
I agree ps2 graphics haves aged worse to me than ps1 actually. at least the ps1 graphics had some early 3d charm to them but ps2 in these times can't hold up

[Anonymous No.2605063]

>>2605053
That implies that early 3d graphics have "charm". Most PSX games have those horrid, pixelated textures which look like absolute garbage.

[Anonymous No.2605082]

>>2603954
>Who would come out on top?
The one with CHEAP optical media, whom every 3rd party developer would have supported. Nintendo would have done better without PS1 to compete against, but the combined support of Namco, Capcom, SNK, Squaresoft, Enix, EA, Ubisoft, ETC would have driven N64 into the ground. It really is a no contest "what-if" story, nothing would have changed. Except maybe garbage like the 32X wouldn't have been built and the Saturn's rushed release date wouldn't have happened either.

[Anonymous No.2605090]

>>2604228
At 700USD the 3DO NEVER stood a chance. Besides which, nearly every game for it was trash, or a port. Only a perfect port of SSFIIT and a few PC ports like Star Control II, Wing Commander 3&4 and Space Hulk were worth owning/playing.

[Anonymous No.2605118]

>>2605063
They didn't look that bad in the 90s - on those small CRT TVs that you used with composite.

Hell I just took over my Saturn for my nephews to play, they have some old junk CRT there, and even via RGB connection I can't see the checkerboard transparencies on that screen.

[Anonymous No.2605135]

>>2605118
No, but I distinctly remember the opposite problem being the case. Low end/really old TVs hooked up via RF (remember having to plug through your VCR?), and everything being really dark and impossible to see shit.

I don't think all early 3d is bad. I think Sega's mid 90s arcades look great, I think Final Fantasy 7 looks great, and I even think a good portion of the N64 library looks just fine. But I would venture to say that the majority of the Playstation's library looks really ugly.

[Anonymous No.2605154]

>>2604760
>>2604786
Source is this:
http://web.stanford.edu/group/htgg/sts145papers/rtan_2001_2.pdf

>The Saturn originally ran on a NEC V60 chip at 16MHz. Compare this to the Playstation CPU (R3000A 32bit RISC chip) which runs are 33.8MHz, almost double the speed. According to one Sega staff member, when Nakayama first received design specifications for the Playstation, he was ‘the maddest I have ever seen him’, calling up the entire R&D division to his office to shout at them. An effort was made to compensate by adding another CPU for dual operation; however, this solution made the system so hard to develop for that, according to Yu Suzuki himself, “only 1 out of 100 programmers could use the Saturn to its full potential”.

Also, the 1993 September issue of Mean Machines Sega also specifically mentioned a NEC V60.

So we know for sure that the Saturn first used a NEC V60 and then moved to Hitachi SH2, which also makes sense given how much of the system was built by Hitachi (the entire cd-rom controller, the controller reader, the PLL, and the VDP1).

The VDP1 was also finished by 1993 December according to the manual, and got a small revision in 1994 February.

Since it is unlikely that they had the time to do big changes to the VDP1, we can assume that the whole "geared towards 3d" was mostly the two SH2s, and some small VDP1 optimizations.

[Anonymous No.2605165]

>>2605135
>I even think a good portion of the N64 library looks just fine.
My negro. Yeah yeah, I know there are still some games on the console whose visuals aged more than others, but I still stand by the notion that a good amount of the N64's games look pretty good for the time (even despite whatever technical flaw the system had), especially those that supported the Expansion Pak. The only console that I could recall looking even better is the Dreamcast. That said, I still had a lot of fun with the PS1's library.

[Anonymous No.2605184]

>>2604194
You mean the 64DD? If it came out at launch or a year after and not late '99 it would've done much better.

[Anonymous No.2605187]

>>2604001
the dreamcast might've come out later tho, giving the saturn a just lifespan (considering the shit competition nintendo woulda been bringing on the table)

[Anonymous No.2605195]

>>2604364
That's because the N64 had only a handful of RPGs and the games were ludicrously expensive.

[Anonymous No.2605202]

>>2605184
>We would've had Ura Zelda and a bunch of other cool shit had it been released early as well as the built-in clock.

[Anonymous No.2605203]

>>2605195
I think the N64 dispels the "muh rpgs" argument pretty well. It sold nearly as well as the Playstation in America, and the discrepancy can easily be explained by the fact that the Playstation came out of first and nabbed most 3rd parties.

[Anonymous No.2605204]

>>2604346
>The length of availability doesn't really factor in here, the n64 and ps1 just offered a better platform for 3d gaming.
>PS1 just offered a better platform for 3d gaming

That's the thing... We're in a thread discussing what would've been the outcome if there was no PlayStation. So that means N64 vs Saturn. Would people still buy Nintendo's 3D machine or Sega's 2D focused but still outputs minimal 3D machine.

If there was no PS1, Sega probably wouldn't have botched the release date in NA. With that said, it probably would've had a greater presence which would help it compete with N64.

[Anonymous No.2605206]

>>2603967
It would have been the same as the Genesis/SNES. Genesis had a two year head start, completely dominated until around 94 when Sega kept shooting themselves in the foot with stupid add ons. I think Sega may have had an edge though because of CD's attracting all kinds of JRPGs

[Anonymous No.2605209]

>>2605203
I was talking about Japan, a nation that loves RPGs and shoot 'em ups even to this day. PlayStation had loads of RPGs, Saturn has plenty of shooters, and the 64 just had loads of driving games and platofrmers (not that it's a bad thing.)

On an unrelated note, why did the Japanese, of whom infamously have little free time, develop a taste for the time-consuming genre of RPGs?

[Anonymous No.2605217]

Fuck... This thread is making me want to get a Saturn. Are the games expensive as shit? Is collecting for Saturn pricey in NA?

[Anonymous No.2605220]

>no fucking PS1 to force Nintendo to make Mario 64 3d
>no metal gear solid
>FF7 would have been Nintendo and probably be more like 6 instead of the retarded shit we got
>sega would have kept Nintendo honest and both made good games, keeping the evenness of the console wars from the SNES vs Genesis generation which basically both sides won
>sega wouldn't have PS2 to fuck them over and thus sega would have brought the DC to a dynasty while Nintendo began to struggle to keep up
>on Sega's strength Microsoft would have just continued supporting Sega instead of bringing out the goddamn xbox
>with no xbox, Halo would be a PC title and not dumbed down and would be actually a decent game
>as PCs became more powerful and Valve brings Steam to the table Sega and Nintendo just decide to bring gaming to the PC
>consoles would have died an honorable death instead of languishing in mediocrity for fucking forever like they are now
Gaming would still be good if there were no Playstation. Jesus fuck, I never realized that until this very thread. It's fucking Sony's fault for debasing gaming and bringing it to the idiot masses and corrupting other companies.

Fucking Sony.

[Anonymous No.2605226]

>>2605220
I like FF7 so :P

[Anonymous No.2605229]

>>2605220

[Anonymous No.2605232]

>>2605217
Yep. Get a Saturn, a modchip, and burn the games.

[Anonymous No.2605234]

>>2605232
>modchip
Swap method.
>BAWWW ITLL BREAK
I've had my Saturn for goddamn forever and used the swap trick so many times it's ridiculous. Still works 100%.
>BUT IMPORT GAMES
Saturn region hack.

[Anonymous No.2605238]

>>2605234
Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.2605291]

>>2605220
>FF7 would have been Nintendo and probably be more like 6 instead of the retarded shit we got
FF7 was just like 6. Same director even. Only blinded nostalgiafags would argue otherwise.

[Anonymous No.2605303]

>>2605204
>If there was no PS1, Sega probably wouldn't have botched the release date in NA.

They did that not because of the PS1, but because in Japan the Megadrive was dead and the Saturn was breaking all sales records, so SoJ wanted to completely switch to Saturn worldwide - ignoring that the Megadrive had plenty of life in it in the USA.

[Anonymous No.2605337]

>>2603964
>would've gotten all the games that *had* to be CD format like FFVII

I really doubt that Square would have sided with Sega. The Saturn had terrible hardware and Japanese people couldn't give a fuck about Sega. They would have either used cartridge or waited for the DD.

Also, without Sony's financial backing it's doubtful that FF7 would have been the massive success that it was.

[Anonymous No.2605363]

>>2604373
>you could do wonders with it
VDP1 will always hold Saturn 3D back because it is deeply flawed. Good programming can only take Saturn 3D from "bad" to "decent".

>>2604416
>The PS1 can do three-point sprites (as well as 4-point ones) and that's its only advantage in that regard. Neither have depth information, neither have perspective correction: they draw resized sprites.
You're right on the latter point, but the PS1 and Saturn hardware works differently. PS1 does "3D" by scanning though the polygons and fetch texels. The Saturn scans through texels and plots pixels. Each method has advantages and disadvantages (but the Saturn's method is definitely slower but handles perspective a little better without correction).

>Regardless I think what you are trying to say is that neither systems were capable of doing floating point math, which would be correct, but in regards of "stable" polygons, it is merely an obstacle, not a deciding factor. There were 32bit games that had very smooth polygon animation, but not even those could not escape z-infighting, which causes a lot of jerking.
You're confusing polygonal jitter caused by fixed vertex coordinates which cause vertices to "jump" from one pixel to another, with polygon sorting (a separate issue). While the N64 generally did not use its FPU for perspective projection (or mapping), it integrated additional integers as "perspective normalization factors" in order to simulate sub-pixel precision. PS1's GTE doesn't support subpixel outright, and it's generally far too expensive for Saturn's CPUs.

>Well obviously you can sort in any amount of ways, but both the GPU and VDP1 need them sorted from farthest to viewer to nearest. Otherwise you get objects in the back overlapping objects in the front, see picture.
You can do alternatives like BSP, it's software controlled, but yes, PS1 can get help for sorting via hardware GTE commands like AVSZ3 and AVSZ4.

[Anonymous No.2605413]

>>2605337
The Saturn ultimately did okay in Japan with plenty of great arcade conversions while the 64 suffered.

[Anonymous No.2605420]

>>2605337
nigga really? Saturn has at least 20 good RPGs, the N64... one?

[Anonymous No.2605426]

>>2603958
what's that? lose?

[Anonymous No.2605427]

>>2605337
FF7 should have been on the PC-FX.

[Anonymous No.2605432]

>>2605426
How's them Wii U sales?

[Anonymous No.2605447]

>>2603954
your hypothetical begs the question as to why sony didn't make the PlayStation.

if your hypothetical envisions a scenario where sony never made the PS because the Nintendo deal never collapsed, then the winner of the 5th gen war would have been the super Nintendo PlayStation 2.

remember: Nintendo went with carts for the 64 basically because they couldn't find someone who would hook them up with a decent disc format that they could have control over. had Sony granted them this with the snes PS, the 64 would have likely been a disc system, with phenomenally more storage space.

Sega, on the business end, would have been in the same spot: fucked for making 9001 failed accessories for the genesis. their history would have unfolded as it is in our universe.

the differences would really come into play once the 6th gen reared up. how would a strong Nintendo, with no Sony competition fare against the alt-universe DC? would the DC still use MS tech and foster enough experience at MS to develop the Xbox? what would an MS vs. strong Nintendo fight look like, and would it lead to a crash-inducing monopoly dominated stagnant market? would gunpei yokoi still be dead?

[Anonymous No.2605451]

>>2604106
>how cheep the DualShock feels
This one fatal error has caused me to discount your entire post. I even agreed with most of it, but I just can't abide that. The only part of a DualShock that feels "cheap" is the d-pad, and it's no worse than the GameCube d-pad.

[Anonymous No.2605456]

>>2603954

>Nintendo backs out of deal with Sony for CD-attachment for the SNES.

>Sony goes to Sega to co-develop a new console.

>Sega releases the PlayStation.

[Anonymous No.2605458]

>>2604102
I don't know much about sega's licensing policies, but I would assume many developers would work on segas platform due to Nintendo's famous draconian treatment of 3rd party devs.

from 83 up to probably yamauchi's resignation, Nintendo's grand strategy revolved around strict format control, quality/content control, and forcing most of the financial loss of poor selling games onto the devs. this is a throwback to how they conquered the market after the 83 crash, but it lead to their doom as soon as a more promiscuous competitor arrived on scene.

so yeah, even if the 64 were to be made into an alt-universe CD system, unless the Saturn grossly underperformed, Nintendo's business tactics would have pushed devs to sega.

[Anonymous No.2605468]

[Anonymous No.2605473]

>>2605432
how's segas current console faring?

[Anonymous No.2605482]

>>2605303
Yeah I know that. But the original Saturn launch in the US was supposed to be in September 95 (around the launch of PlayStation) but because PlayStation was taking off in Japan SOJ forced SOA to release the Saturn in May 95. If there was no PlayStation the Saturn would've had a better launch.

Oh yeah, by launching the Saturn in May 95 to select retailers really pissed off a lot of people (ie KB Toys which refused to carry Sega products as a result)

[Anonymous No.2605485]

Sony ruined modern gaming and Nintendo and Sega are completely to blame because of their incompetence during the 32/64 bit era. If they didn't fail so badly Sony would have never rose to power.

Sony represents everything that is wrong with video games. They've never had an original idea. They're greedy and soulless. Their hardware is shoddy, inferior garbage. Their best games were always made by companies that got their start on Sega and Nintendo consoles. The rest was shovelware trash. The PS1 and PS2 have the most shovelware of any modern console, and this includes the 2600, NES and the Wii combined. Sony fans are brainless morons with shallow tastes who care more about corporate propaganda, sales talk and shit posting online then they do playing games. They're also the most hostile, ignorant idiots in the history of gaming. Literally the worst fanbase ever, and they act the way they do because they support the worst company ever.

Literally any company in the history of gaming is better than Sony. Take your pick, I don't really care who. Anything is better than Sony.

Sony is the McDonald's of video games. They sell their cheap garbage to fat, stupid idiots.

Sony may have had the highest selling console in a generation, but they've never had the best console in any generation, and that includes the PS2.

I think it's hilarious that they've lost billions, were forced to sell their history and prestigious birthplace, and have posted a massive yearly financial loss 10 of the past 11 years. The one year they made a profit? The year they were forced to sell their birthplace.

I don't care if you got suckered into buying a playstation, a lot of people do, but if you're a sony fanboy, you represent everything that is wrong with gamers and you're an enemy of gaming as a whole.

[Anonymous No.2605487]

>>2605468
I like Sony, but that just proves to me that it was because it was a very good imitation of something else.

[Anonymous No.2605489]

>>2605485
is this pasta?

>They've never had an original idea
neither has Nintendo. their only "original" idea was to use lockout chips and have quality control. SEGA's "innovation" was to be looser with QC in order to rough the big N up.

none of the Japanese companies were good or innovative. the best of the era as far as innovation goes were American dev companies like ID, who actually invented new software technologies.

[Anonymous No.2605490]

>>2605485
Did Kutaragi rape your mother or what?

[Anonymous No.2605493]

>>2605485

This is a fairly accurate assessment of the company.

[Anonymous No.2605494]

>>2605468
>Implying the Pocket Pikachu wasn't a Tamagotchi ripoff.
>Implying Famicom Wars wasn't already a ripoff of Daisenryaku.
I'm sure Nintendo has borrowed ideas from other hardware and software companies as much as Sony. Hell, I remember seeing a Nintendo version of this bait.

[Anonymous No.2605501]

>>2605485
This is your brain on owning only Sega Saturn in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.2605502]

>>2605494
Found it.

[Anonymous No.2605510]

>>2605502

Everyone already knows that image is false.

Also...

>B-b-b-buh Nintendo!

It's funny how deranged sony fanboys have this constant obsession and insecurity complex with Nintendo.

I think I can explain that.

See, when Nintendo broke their deal with Sony, the president of the company at the time LITERALLY vowed to destroy Nintendo. Not even joking. That attitude was reflected in Sony's console wars agenda over the next 15 years.

And unfortunately for Sony, they would never destroy Nintendo. Not even when people predicted the PSP would "end the company" and force them to go 3rd party.

Nintendo keeps on rolling, and this fact is a huge embarrassment for Sony as a company and a constant source of pain and humiliation for Sony fanboys everywhere.

It feels really good to be a well informed, impartial, fan of all video games. I imagine that being a sony fanboy must be a horrendous, joyless nightmare.

[Anonymous No.2605514]

>>2605502
So...I guess real innovation in the game industry has been long dead?

[Anonymous No.2605515]

>>2605502
>smash-style combat
>no Guardian Heroes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XsfiNAWzBM

Outfoxies is still great tho.

[Anonymous No.2605518]

>>2605501

Here's why you're retarded. I owned all the systems back in the day, even the Atari Jaguar. (bought for $24). I owned the PS1 so early my system came with the original controllers with no analog sticks. I even had the non rumble version of the dual stick controller.

You have to buy all the consoles if you want to play all the games. It's just unfortunate that Sony is always such a shitty game company. They make awesome TVs and cameras.

[Anonymous No.2605527]

>>2605468
https://archive.moe/_/search/filename/011785644.jpg/
I'm usually not one to go "lol nintendrones" but damn, this guy has some serious issues.

[Anonymous No.2605528]

>>2605502

>Light Gun (Magnavox)

Nope, Invented by Gunpei Yokoi much earlier for a cowboy shooting game.

>Digital pad (Mattel)

Wrong again. The Intellivision pad was an 8-way disc.

>Amiga Joyboard

Jesus, wrong again. The ATari 2600 had foot controllers.

Man, you are a completely stupid cunt.

>Multitap (PC Engine)

WRONG AGAIN.

Atari had those.

>Mat

WRONG!

Also Atari

>Four controller support

WRONG AGAIN

Atari 2600, Warlords

Holy shit this board is full of young morons.

[Anonymous No.2605531]

>>2605527

>Cyber stalking suspected fanboys.

I'm not one to call out fanboys but you clearly have some serious mental issues. Seek help.

[Anonymous No.2605534]

Sega Saturn 2D > PS1

Nintendo 64 3D > PS1

[Anonymous No.2605540]

>>2605531
>Cyber stalking
It's not really hard when you use the same pics and rhetoric every time. Literally takes a single mouse click dude.

You on the other hand seem legitimately deranged. Did Sony kill your parents or something?

[Anonymous No.2605542]

>>2605534

Man, don't forget that Saturn was godly for shooters and fight games.

[Anonymous No.2605543]

>>2605528
Well at least you don't deny that Nintendo were a bigger ripoff than Sony.

[Anonymous No.2605545]

>>2605510
>>2605528
What do you guys have to say about this then?

[Anonymous No.2605546]

>>2605540

>Raging autism.
>No U!
>Muh precious Sony!

Another clear example of deeply rooted mental illness.

[Anonymous No.2605550]

>>2605546
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.2605551]

>>2605543

No one is a bigger rippoff than Sony. They'eve literally never had an original idea.

>>2605545

Looks like it was just made by an autistic retard.

*Checks histogram

Yup, you literally just made that. Wow. please go take your autism meds.

[Anonymous No.2605554]

ITT: Bitter Nintendo and Sega fanboys bitter that the game industry moved on pass their favorite hardware manufacturers.

[Anonymous No.2605557]

>>2605545
>>2605502
>>2605468
>>2605510
execution > innovation

[Anonymous No.2605558]

Can't we all enjoy vidya games, and just, get along?

[Anonymous No.2605560]

>>2605551
>Yup, you literally just made that. Wow. please go take your autism meds.
Nigga, it isn't even my OC. I found it on the Warosu archive.

[Anonymous No.2605561]

I think we can all agree that on paper, Nintendo and Sega were always better companies than Sony, they just made a lot of mistakes and Sony capitalized upon them.

In some ways it was good that Sony came into the mix because Nintendo and Sega became arrogant and needed to be punished for their crimes.

But Sony all by itself has never been good. If you buy a PlayStation console you always wind up buying a second console or playing games on PC. And if you don't you live a very sad, joyless life, playing sad games alone, by yourself, in a dark room.

[Anonymous No.2605563]

>>2605534
PS1 excelled in both 3D and 2D.

N64 was good at SOME 3D genres. Saturn was good for 2D, but not much better than the PS1, the only games that actually killed the PS1 ports were some of the extra RAM ports like X-Men/Marvel vs Street Fighter.

[Anonymous No.2605565]

>>2603959
>The Nintendo 64 wasn't all that far behind the Playstation over here

[Anonymous No.2605567]

>>2605545
every top down fantasy game is ultimately a clone, derivative or inspired by ultima, that's what I think. all of those "Nintendo ripped it off with Zelda" games (save for maybe adventure) were all ultima inspired, like all nip PC rpg/adventure games at the time.

[Anonymous No.2605568]

>>2605563

>PS1 excelled in both 3D and 2D.

Nah, it was shit in both. PlayStation 3D games have aged like warm milk.

And PS1 never had good 2D games. I don't know why it was so weak in that area.

[Anonymous No.2605573]

>>2605561

>But Sony all by itself has never been good. If you buy a PlayStation console you always wind up buying a second console or playing games on PC. And if you don't you live a very sad, joyless life, playing sad games alone, by yourself, in a dark room.

Don't forget pressing X to get to the next cut scene.

[Anonymous No.2605575]

>>2605568
>And PS1 never had good 2D games.
What are Castlevania and Little Ralph?

[Anonymous No.2605580]

>>2605575
Don't bother replying to an uneducated underage.

[Anonymous No.2605581]

>>2605573

Man, remember those horrible psx load times? What a terrible time to be a gamer.

[Anonymous No.2605583]

>>2605561
Nintendo and Sega are game companies. Sony are a general business company.

End of.

>>2605563
The only thing that the PS1 excels in is it's game library. The 300 something N64 games and 600 something Saturn games stand no chance to the 2000 something PS1 game library. Granted 1/4 of those PS1 games were shovelware, but that's besides the point since shovelware wasn't exclusive to the PS1, and is understandable considering it's huge library.

Saturn had the better specs for 2D yet was shit at 3D while the N64 had the better 3D yet close to zero 2D. I like to think of the PS1 as a perfect balance between 2D and 3D gaming.

[Anonymous No.2605585]

>>2605568
the lack of floating point math drives that one home hard.

never had a PS as a kid and figured crooked, vomitty textures, wobbly polygons and z-fighting were a pain of emulation...knowing that it's just the way it was makes me laugh at how pathetic. the hardware was compared to the 64.

[Anonymous No.2605586]

>>2605583

>The only thing that the PS1 excels in is it's game library

Top Kek!

[Anonymous No.2605589]

>>2605586
Reading comprehension?

[Anonymous No.2605593]

>>2605583

I think of the PS1 as a jack of all trades and a master of none. Terrible 2D, terrible 3D.

It's only real strength was having the most shovelware.

[Anonymous No.2605594]

>>2605561
>But Sony all by itself has never been good. If you buy a PlayStation console you always wind up buying a second console or playing games on PC. And if you don't you live a very sad, joyless life, playing sad games alone, by yourself, in a dark room.
That's how Hiroshi Yamauchi described JRPG fans after Squaresoft ditched them for PlayStation.

[Anonymous No.2605595]

>>2605583
>1/4 shovelware
more like 95% shovelware.

between the 64 and PS, there are about the same number of titles that I actually want to play.

[Anonymous No.2605603]

>>2605594
I can't say he's wrong.

[Anonymous No.2605606]

>>2605593
It must be really sad to shill the underdog just for the sake of it, the worst kind of hipster tbh.

[Anonymous No.2605607]

>>2605593
I remember the PS1 for it's good games rather than it's shovelware which doesn't even take half of it's library. And the fact it set forth the path for modern gaming but that was to happen anyway, if not Sony then Microsoft would've done it sooner or later.

>>2605595
I remember an obscure/underappreciated PS1 games thread half a year ago that reached the bump limit and was full of interesting and playable PS1 titles. The Saturn is similar in that regard that it has a shitton of great games that never left Japan, yet not enough to make a thread reach it's bump limit. The N64 has no such hidden gems whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.2605613]

>>2605606
You've just described modern Nintendo fanboys on /v/.

[Anonymous No.2605614]

>>2605594

It's ironic how it still applies to most playstation exclusives even today.

[Anonymous No.2605615]

>>2605554
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.2605616]

>>2605510
Man, that Sidewinder is like the king of controllers, though. I still have two of them. They're great for playing Mortal Kombat on my raspberry pi.

[Anonymous No.2605617]

>>2605606
>>2605613

>Muh sales! McDondald's is clearly the best cuisine ever!

This is how stupid this same fag sounds. You should go back to your neogaf support group.

[Anonymous No.2605618]

>>2605568
The PSone has some good 2D games, but they were hard to make because it didn't actually have any real 2D hardware so they had to fudge it with polygons.

[Anonymous No.2605623]

>>2605618

It's amazing that the system was so weak it couldn't even do 2D graphics properly.

[Anonymous No.2605625]

>>2605617
>>2605623
real talk though

did a sony employee molest you when you were 5?

[Anonymous No.2605630]

>>2605625
the lack of perpendicular lines existing on wall textures in silent hill and LSD molested me.

[Anonymous No.2605631]

>>2605623

Can't do 2D, sucks at 3D.

[Anonymous No.2605632]

>>2605618
>it didn't actually have any real 2D hardware so they had to fudge it with polygons.
I have seen people post this so many times it might as well be copy pasta. It's completely untrue and doesn't even make sense. What is "2D hardware"? Does it even occur to people that drawing a rendered 3D scene on the screen is performing a "2D graphics" operation?

[Anonymous No.2605634]

>>2605615
>Implying half of this thread hasn't been fanboy shit-flinging and obvious baiting.
Hell, the whole point of the OP was to discuss the game industry without the PlayStation's influence. It was doomed from day 1 to attract trolls.

[Anonymous No.2605636]

How did games like Heart of Darkness and SOTN manage such beautiful sprite animation?

[Anonymous No.2605639]

It's funny how both the N64 and the Saturn had RAM upgrade carts the playstation did not.

Why was sony always running behind in tech?

[Anonymous No.2605646]

>>2605634

>Hell, the whole point of the OP was to discuss the game industry without the PlayStation's influence.

So wait OP, are you saying you wanted this topic to be a Sony circle jerk thread?

They have a place for topics like that. It's called NeoGAF. You should go there and never return.

[Anonymous No.2605657]

>>2605607
>The N64 has no such hidden gems whatsoever.
U WOT

[Anonymous No.2605658]

>>2605646
>Muh NeoFAG/Sonygger boogeyman
Nah. It's a pointless thread really. No amount of speculating on what ifs will change reality. Nintendo is struggling to remain relevant with Happy Meal toys, Sega is now a mediocre 3rd party publisher, and Sony is competing with Microsoft on who sells the most gimped PCs.

[Anonymous No.2605660]

>>2605632
Seconded, i always read that thing without real proof/examples. This is a launch title and it looks fine if just ask me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeqZKWsdcdU

[Anonymous No.2605661]

>>2605658

Spoken like a mouth breathing, autistic, totally rabid sony fanboy.

[Anonymous No.2605664]

>>2605660

Jeez that game looks terrible!

It's like they weren't even trying. Why was this system so bad at 2D? I know the hardware was weak but come on! The Neo Geo had better 2D than the PS1.

[Anonymous No.2605665]

>>2605661
there is literally nothing wrong with mouth breathing

[Anonymous No.2605793]

>>2605485
>everything that is wrong with gamers and you're an enemy of gaming

[Anonymous No.2606103]

>>2603954
Sega would still be playing second fiddle to Nintendo.

>>2605468
Dark Cloud is nothing like Zelda.

>>2605485
This is some tinfoil tier shit right here.

[Anonymous No.2606112]

>>2605485
>you represent everything that is wrong with gamers and you're an enemy of gaming as a whole.

[Anonymous No.2606117]

>>2605485
>implying that Microsoft has a better console this gem
>it's literally an underpowered piece of trash because muh entertainment center
>tried to destroy second hand sales
>Implying the DLC ridden, broken and fix later policies started with Sony
>implying that Sony is what made gaming mainstream and littered with dude bros, even though Halo and Call of Duty brought more of these shits into gaming than any Sony game ever did

I'm not a huge fan of Sony, but Microsoft has done more to ruin gaming than Sony ever did.

[Anonymous No.2606121]

This thread started off so well.

>>2606103
>Sega playing second fiddle to Nintendo
>literally beating Nintendo in worldwide sales before the Saturn launched

[Anonymous No.2606123]

>>2606117
Sony brought in the dudebros with GTA3 too, but you're right on everything else.

>218 replies
>52 posters

Jesus Christ it's like I really am back on /v/.

[Anonymous No.2606131]

>>2606121
>This thread started off so well.

All it takes is one or two autistic shitposters to completely derail a thread. And people still wonder why /v/ went to shit long ago.

>literally beating Nintendo in worldwide sales before the Saturn launched

Before the SNES launched, you mean.

[Anonymous No.2606137]

>>2606131
Lol no. The Genesis was wrecking Nintendo in world wide sales until 94. It was at that point that the SNES finally outsold the Genesis.

[Anonymous No.2606139]

>>2606123
>Sony brought in the dudebros with GTA3 too

If Rockstar didn't make a deal with Sony GTA3 and sequels would've come out anyways and they would have still been critically acclaimed. Then PS2 would have sold a lot less and Sony would have tried even harder to win the dudebro audience further worsening its "hardcore reputation" (this is what we're talking about, right?). It's like you don't even know how reality works.

[Anonymous No.2606153]

>>2606139
>this is what we're talking about, right?

You know what, I honestly don't know anymore.

[Anonymous No.2606158]

>>2605485

[Anonymous No.2606175]

>>2603954
Dreamcast silly.

[Anonymous No.2606189]

>>2605220
>sega wouldn't have PS2 to fuck them over and thus sega would have brought the DC to a dynasty while Nintendo began to struggle to keep up
>this is what segacucks actually believe

Reminder that Sega fucked themselves repeatedly throughout the 90s and were always Nintendo's bitch, Sony simply delivered the killing blow.

[Anonymous No.2606203]

>>2606189
>were always Nintendo's bitch
See: >>2606121
Stay delusional, fanboy.

[Anonymous No.2606210]

>>2606203
Got any source to back that up.

And anothing thing, the PS1 had nothing to do with Mario 64 making the jump to 3D. Don't know where the segacuck got that idea from, probably his ass just so he could continue going full tinfoil on Sony.

[Anonymous No.2606442]

>>2605661
>Spoken like a mouth breathing, autistic, totally rabid sony fanboy.
I think your reading comprehension is off, Wiinie.
>Sony is competing with Microsoft on who sells the most gimped PCs.
How is that comment meant to be a praise on Sony in anyway?

[Anonymous No.2606463]

>>2605618
That's retarded.
The PS1 GPU worked pretty much like the Saturn one, in where the 3D was made using sprites. It's just that on the Saturn 3D data is stored in quads to match the sprite engine and in the PSX it's stored in tris because that's how the GTE -a chip that transforms 3D coordinates to 2D- understands it. The PSX could do 2D just fine, the Saturn had an edge because of the VDP2 background effects but the PSX had better transparencies and I'm pretty sure it could even push more sprites than the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.2606469]

>>2606463
>3D was made using sprites.

Yeah, how is fill rate a thing then?

>-a chip that transforms 3D coordinates to 2D-

You mean just like modern video cards?

[Anonymous No.2606482]

>>2606469
>how is fill rate a thing then?
I don't understand the question. 2D operations (blitter stuff and such) also have a "fill rate" when being composed to the screen.

>You mean just like modern video cards?
No.
That chip took a vertex with 3 components and spat out the resulting one with only 2. Then it was up to the GPU to paint the polygons.

[Anonymous No.2606491]

>>2604535
It was the hardware that fucked it?

From what I heard, the Saturn did pretty well in Japan, but completely and totally flopped in the US because Sega of America decided to release it 4 months early without telling anyone, which pissed off retailers, who then trashed all of their Sega merchandise and replaced it with Sony/Nintendo stuff.

And it was apparently really hard to program for, compared to N64/PS1.

[Anonymous No.2606498]

>>2606491
>And it was apparently really hard to program for, compared to N64/PS1.
That would be hardware related.

[Anonymous No.2606501]

>>2606469
>You mean just like modern video cards?
Kind of, except for the lack of Z-index.

>Yeah, how is fill rate a thing then?
Wasting fillrate was indeed a problem. Mostly for the fact that it didn't have enough to spare. PS1 GPU had way, way higher fillrate, enough that it could do transparency effects for free (it took 2-3x longer to draw a transparent poly than a normal one).

Also, the PSX could draw quads. Yes, they were internally broken down to two triangles, but you could just tell the gpu to draw a quad, which made programming 2d games as easy as on the Saturn.

Like the other anon said, the only edge the Saturn had in 2d was the VDP2, and the fact that it had more RAM. Plus the VDP2 could do tiled backgrounds, which again saved a ton of memory, and it could also do many background-related special effects.

PS1 had to waste a lot of its limited memory on drawing the backgrounds, meaning it had less memory for sprites. And it had to "emulate" background effects like line scroll via polygons.

>>2606482
>That chip took a vertex with 3 components and spat out the resulting one with only 2. Then it was up to the GPU to paint the polygons.

Remember that modern GPUs also do the transform in hardware ever since the Geforce, so he is kind of right.

[Anonymous No.2606503]

>>2606498
It was more related to the legendarily awful dev kits. On Sony kits you could use a performance analyser to tell you exactly what causes your game to slow down - on the Saturn you had a basic debugger and that was that.

[Anonymous No.2606509]

>>2606501
>Remember that modern GPUs also do the transform in hardware ever since the Geforce, so he is kind of right.
Modern GPUs combine the T&L and texturer/rasterizer on the one chip though.

[Anonymous No.2606546]

>>2606498
I was under the impression that the shit marketing from Sega of USA was the main thing that fucked it, not the hardware.

[Anonymous No.2606550]

>>2606491
>Sega of America decided to release it 4 months early without telling anyone
SoA didn't decide that, it was forced upon them by SoJ.

[Anonymous No.2606556]

>>2606550
Close enough. All I know is that Sony announced they were releasing PS1 a week before the Saturn in the US, and Sega responded by suddenly releasing the Saturn 4 months early.

[Anonymous No.2606585]

>>2606550
I find it funny how former Sega USA employees tend to blame everything on their Japanese parent company and vice versa. It's like nobody wants to take responsibility for their fuck-ups.

[Anonymous No.2606604]

>>2606585
SOA actually did their job remarkably good, they set up the ground for the Dreamcast incredibly well.

Unfortunately, they were also ordered to kill the Genesis early, and then to kill the Saturn early.

[Anonymous No.2606610]

>>2606604
>kill the Genesis early

The fuck? Genesis ran from late 80s to late 90s. It had a long ass life.

[Anonymous No.2606615]

>>2606585
The easy answer is this:
SoJ actually had the power to enforce decisions, for better or worse.
SoA... not so much.

>>2606610
It was a little early. The 16-bit market was still a huge percentage of game sales in 94 and 95, but 5th generation system sales quickly overtook it after that.

[Anonymous No.2606625]

>>2606615

Games like Vectorman and DKC were the last hurras for the 16 bits of Sega and Nintendo.
People wanted to play with better grafixxx. The graphicwhorism wasn't something that was born in the 00s. People want FPS and 10008303p now, but back then it was all about dat Three Dee.

[Anonymous No.2606636]

>>2606625
That's not true at all. Nintendo was still supporting the SNES heavily during 1995. Hell, in 1996 alone Super Nintendo players got Super Mario RPG, Harvest Moon, and Donkey Kong Country 3. I was so jealous.

Meanwhile, on the Genesis we got nothing that year. Sonic 3D Blast, great. I remember getting Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 that year and nothing else. It was times like that that made me wish I had a Super Nintendo instead.

[Anonymous No.2606641]

>>2606546
It is. If it was the hardware it wouldn't have such a huge Japanese library. SoA fucked up bad.

[Anonymous No.2606643]

>>2606636
Super Nintendo's high point was '94-96. Genesis' was more like '91-'93.

[Anonymous No.2606650]

>>2606610
I decided to look that up and jesus the last one released was Frogger in 1998. And I was thinking Madou Monogatari 1 was the last one.

Hey, anyone remember that autist who kept screaming "BUT THE PS2 STILL HAS GAAEMEMMMESS COMING OUUUUUTTTTT!!" while posting pics of a shovelware sports game?

[rezzy No.2606676]

Nintendo! are you kidding? Sega would have failed in the 64 bit era even if PS1 wasn't around

[Anonymous No.2606680]

>>2606650
>Hey, anyone remember that autist who kept screaming "BUT THE PS2 STILL HAS GAAEMEMMMESS COMING OUUUUUTTTTT!!" while posting pics of a shovelware sports game?
>autist
Holy shit. Are you the samefag bitching about Sony fans and NeoGAF in this thread? You got some issues, kid.

[Anonymous No.2606682]

The Saturn would have done better overall, the N64 would probably have more games, Voice acting and cinematic cutscene's would be less popular in videogames.
Maybe SoTN would be made with a 2d engine instead of a 3d one.
FF7 would either be saturn exclusive or have no FMVs.
Video games as a whole would be less popular globally.

[Anonymous No.2606692]

>>2606676
I doubt this. Would you care to elaborate as to why?

[Anonymous No.2606694]

>>2606610
>>2606643
Genesis was at its prime in 1994, and could have had some very strong years 95-96, but they stopped all development other than the remaining ongoing projects.

This effectively gave the entire 16-bit market to Nintendo. That's why the SNES had its high point at that time. No opposition. (And also a lot of games came out where its superior colour palette helped it out, and the Genny ports all looked and sounded shittier)

The Sega CD was also winding up in 1994 as developers started figuring out how to use the scaler chip more impressively (like doing 4-point transforms), but Sega told them to stop all of that cause the Saturn was coming. And then there was the 32x of course, which ended up stillborn.

[Anonymous No.2606696]

>>2606682
>Video games as a whole would be less popular globally.

This is true for 3rd world countries. Without PlayStation and its modchip, many kids wouldn't have been able to play anything other than a Famiclone or a Genesis clone maybe. N64 was expensive and there were no bootleg games (well, they did exist, but they were so rare, and not too cheap either since they were still cartidges, and required a special adapter to play) and Saturn was just hard to find in many countries. Honestly I could see the Saturn being more popular if the PS didn't exist though. Modchips for Saturn existed back then, after all.

Then again, you're forgetting PC gaming.
But you would be right about console gaming. I still think in 1st world regions like Japan, USA or the rich countries of Europe, N64 and Saturn would have been popular anyway, the Saturn way more than it ended up being. Could have been a neck to neck battle like the 16 bit days.

[Anonymous No.2606702]

>>2606650
It was a FIFA game, not shovelware, and it was posted as an example of why 6th gen shouldn't be allowed on /vr/.

Why are you being an asshole about this, are you trying to say we should be talking about the PS2?

[Anonymous No.2606705]

>>2605420
>Saturn has at least 20 good RPGs
I could only remember Panzer Dragoon Saga and Baroque, which were kinda decent I guess.

[Anonymous No.2606721]

>>2606705

Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers come to mind.
Soul Hackers got a PS1 port but it was originally Saturn.

[Anonymous No.2606735]

>>2606696
>N64 was expensive and there were no bootleg games
The N64 did have cartridge copiers, but the system just wasn't popular enough and didn't have a large enough library to make it worthwhile. Chinese pirates mostly didn't bother with the system, since mod chips and games for the more popular PS were cheaper to produce and much more profitable.

[Anonymous No.2606746]

>>2606735

Yeah I know, I had a bootleg Shadows of the Empire. But as I said, you also needed a special adapter to play bootleg games, otherwise the N64 wouldn't boot it.

[rezzy No.2606749]

>>2606692
cuz Sega focuses far too much on Sonic and SA1 and SA2 are considered to be 2 of the best 3D sonic games ever but they were on the system that killed the company so, fan boys don't kill me, if the high point of a series of games is killing the company's console then what follows would have been awful.

I mean they probably would still have released most of the 3D Sonic's that everyone hated. ik now Sega doesn't really have enough money to make Sonic games but back then they had the money, they thought Heros was a good idea and then when that was panned same thing with Shadow, '06, Secret Rings and Unleashed! it's only now-ish that they don't have any money.

and i hear you screaming, "SONIC'S NOT SEGA'S ONLY GAME, DICKBAG!" well yeah but it's not like their other series were really gonna save the company is it? don't get me wrong, there were some incredible Sega games for Dreamcast but most of them didn't have room for expansion and wouldn't keep them afloat, that's if they even decided to give them sequels.

the only way the could still be in the market today with PS1 out of the picture would have been to have had a amazing new idea for a games series or maybe co-mascot , otherwise everyone would have turned to Nintendo by now.

but besides, having Sony out the way might have opened the door to a new company all together who could have dominated the market.

[Anonymous No.2606754]

>>2606702
>It was a FIFA game, not shovelware,

FIFA games are shovelware.

[Anonymous No.2606765]

>>2606749
This is some of the most retarded shit I've ever read and it has almost nothing to do with the thread. How old are you?

[Anonymous No.2606775]

>>2606749
I mean, I'd never insult you for your opinion but I caught zero logic in all of that. The last part was pure gibberish.

[Anonymous No.2606786]

>>2606749
>being this much of a Sonic autist

[Anonymous No.2606805]

>>2606643
>Super Nintendo's high point was '94-96. Genesis' was more like '91-'93.
sonic 3 released
streets of rage 3 released
sonic & knuckles released
road rash 3 the next year

oh yeah genesis was totally dying in 94 fucking l o l and that's just a couple games off the top of my head that were big hits

[Anonymous No.2606830]

>>2606694
What a shame.
It would have been good if they supported the Genesis longer and launched the Saturn later in America and Europe, one or one and a half year later than in Japan. They could have launched with a good lineup and even maybe support the 32X a bit more (but I don't know who'd be there since the Saturn would already be a reality on Japan).

[Anonymous No.2606831]

>>2604143
But the N64 wouldnt have had the arcade ports of 2d fighting games, the Marvels vs Capcoms, KOFS or Street Fighter alphas, because of its small cartirdge size.

And I imagine some japanese companies would have prefered making 2d rpgs for saturn than rpgs for the n64.

[Anonymous No.2606842]

How on par was the hardware specs of 32X is with the Saturn? I know they used the same CPUs, but that's about it.

[Anonymous No.2606859]

>>2606831
If Nintendo had still gone with carts for the N64 in this hypothetical situation, SEGA would have definitely gotten all the big RPGs. CD storage and two hugely successful years in Japan before the N64 launched (thanks to Virtua Fighter) would have secured it.

[Anonymous No.2606863]

>>2606842
That's it.
The 32X uses those two CPUs and some kind of color memory to draw stuff on a framebuffer and then that gets passed to the Genesis as an overlay (the Genesis picture processor can be used for backgrounds). The SH2s can run any other kind of game code, and the way it renders it's up to the coder (since it's a general purpose CPU).

The Saturn has 2 SH2s which are faster and are connected to the VDP1 and VDP2. VDP1 handles sprites (and polys, using the sprite engine) and VDP2 handles the backgrounds.

[Anonymous No.2606864]

>>2603954
Nintendo easily. The N64 was far more powerful and Nintendo's reputation wasn't in shambles the way Sega's was after the 32X and surprise launch bullshit. I'm not even a Nintendo fanboy. It is just painfully clear who was on top between the two at the time. Some people say that the modern era of gaming began with the Dreamcast but in my opinion, the N64 was the one that really started the trend.

[Anonymous No.2606872]

>>2606863
Why didn't Sega just make the Saturn backwards compatible with the Genesis/Sega CD instead of wasting time with the 32X? It had a disc drive and a cartridge slot after all.

[Anonymous No.2606878]

>>2606863
That, and the Saturn also had an extra DSP coprocessor (it was seldom used in games), and a very powerful audio synth that had its own memory and processor. It also had tons more memory, and most of it could function completely independently of each other - only the two SH2s were dependant on each other for memory access.

[Anonymous No.2606879]

>>2606682
>FF7 would either be saturn exclusive or have no FMVs.
>FF7
>saturn exclusive

Geez what's with all the sega buttboy delusion in this thread?

[Anonymous No.2606883]

>>2604028
>implying gaming itself won't be dead by now if that happened

[Anonymous No.2606885]

>>2606863

> draw stuff on a framebuffer and then that gets passed to the Genesis as an overlay (the Genesis picture processor can be used for backgrounds)
Wait, so what's the video connector cable between the Genesis and 32x for? I thought the 32x just took what the Genesis rendered and drew on top of it.

[Anonymous No.2606886]

>>2606872
>add even more CPUs to the console
Good fucking lord

[Anonymous No.2606890]

>>2606702
>Why are you being an asshole about this, are you trying to say we should be talking about the PS2?
It's a Nintendo fan shitposting in this thread.
>>2605546
>>2605551
>>2605661
>>2606131
>>2606786
>>2606650
Notice the constant misuse of the word "autistic"

[Anonymous No.2606904]

>>2603985
Or they decided to never attempt making one. If Sony hadn't teamed up with Nintendo in the first place they never would have entered the market.

[Anonymous No.2606908]

>>2606878
Why wasn't the DSP used more often and why wasn't it as useful as the PSX's GTE?

>>2606872
I suppose because the motherboard was pretty full already and having all that a Genesis/CD combo needed would have increased the cost quite a lot, and I also suppose that make the hardware parts work for both consoles (like the VDP1 having the functionality of the Genesis PPU) would have increased its complexity a lot, since the Genesis and the Sega CD were also kind of two stand-alone systems (the CD having its own processor and memory).
Maybe a cartridge (for the Saturn) with some miniaturized Genesis/CD motherboard could have been released later and that would have been really cool.

[Anonymous No.2606914]

>>2606890
>All it takes is one or two autistic shitposters to completely derail a thread

Sounds about right to me. And it's actually a Sega fan, see >>2605220 especially the delusion about Nintendo struggling to keep up with Sega.

[Anonymous No.2606917]

>>2606885
I'm not sure but it could be as you said, the thing is that the 32X always gets drawn on top.

[Anonymous No.2606920]

>>2606914
Either way, the guy has some seriously unhealthy obsession with Sony apparently.

[Anonymous No.2606926]

>>2606920
You'd be upset too if Sony killed your loved one, wouldn't you?

[Anonymous No.2606932]

>>2606917

I don't see why the video connector would exist otherwise.

[Anonymous No.2606934]

>>2606908
>Why wasn't the DSP used more often and why wasn't it as useful as the PSX's GTE?

It wasn't a general purpose processor, but a thing that could execute a few things in parallel with a very limited instruction set. You had to take advantage of that fact to do things faster than the SH2s would. It also had no memory access other than its own registers.

Apparently it could do matrix transforms faster than the SH2, but it was just not worth the hassle to use it. Then again, even getting the slave SH2 was too much of a hassle for most programmers, they usually left it doing minor tasks.

[Anonymous No.2606939]

>>2606926
Sega killed itself.

[Anonymous No.2606941]

>>2606939
Watch out, he's going to use the DVD-Video argument.

[Anonymous No.2606946]

>>2606926
Kaz Hirai raped my girlfriend after Ken Kutaragi killed my parents, while Shuhei Yoshida, Adam Boyce and Mark Cerny were running over my pets.

[Anonymous No.2606947]

>>2606885
That's exactly what the 32x does and it's why you need the video connector. It takes the Genesis RGB image, and mixes it together with its own RGB image.

>>2606872
Because the Genesis was not selling well in Japan and they wanted to kill it and launch their new product (remember, the team who designed it was in japan).

And there is way more to a console than a disc drive and a cartridge slot.

[Anonymous No.2606965]

>>2606947
>Because the Genesis was not selling well in Japan and they wanted to kill it and launch their new product (remember, the team who designed it was in japan).
I heard Sega of Japan wanted to add Saturn compatibility to the Dreamcast and nixed it for the same reason.

[Anonymous No.2606968]

>>2606705
Dragon Force I & II
Shining Force III, Scenarios 1, 2, 3
Shining The Holy Ark
Albert Odyssey
Magic Knight Rayearth
Wachenroder
Sakura Taisen 1 & 2
Chaos Seed
Grandia
Langrisser IV & V
Princess Crown

Just to name a few. Unfortunately a lot of them never left Japan, which should be the preface to discussing Saturn games.

[Anonymous No.2606969]

>>2606939
Nonsense anon, everyone knows Sega is incapable of doing any wrong.

[Anonymous No.2606972]

>>2606969
Literally nobody thinks that. This weird strawman you're trying to make here simply doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.2606984]

>>2606890
Don't 4channer's intentionally use the word "autist" which isn't even really a word. It's like a meme/battlecry.

[Anonymous No.2607007]

Playstation was always shit garbage.

We only bought it for the third party games

[Anonymous No.2607013]

Sony: shit fanbase, shit company.

[Anonymous No.2607017]

I remember having so much fun with my friends playing multiplayer games with my friends, while my fat weabo dweeb neighbor sat alone in his room crying about the latest final fantasy game.

Good times!

[Anonymous No.2607020]

>>2607013
>>2607007
>>2607017

Calm down samefag

[Anonymous No.2607028]

>>2607020
Christ. I've never seen such a clear cut case of samefagging.

[Anonymous No.2607034]

It's a bit unbecoming to see such behaviour on /vr/.

Guess even here I can't escape from butthurt manchildren.

[Anonymous No.2607036]

>>2607028
>>2607020

What the hell are you talking about you psychotic lunatic?

[Anonymous No.2607041]

>>2607020

Oh gee look, another sony shit a witch hunt.

[Anonymous No.2607042]

>>2606965
Making the DC Saturn compatible would have been an utter clusterfuck.

It would have been easily possible, but it would have been more like a Saturn with the DC parts tucked in as extra, rather than the other way around.

[Anonymous No.2607045]

>>2607036
Why isn't there a single "(you)" in that pic?

[Anonymous No.2607047]

>>2607041

They're always like this. Total shit fanbase. Worst ever.

[Anonymous No.2607050]

>>2607045

Because you're a delusional fucking idiot who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.

[Anonymous No.2607052]

>>2607050
The point is that if you're one of the guys posting there, there's supposed to be at least one "you"

[Anonymous No.2607059]

>>2607052
This

[Anonymous No.2607062]

Jesus Christ this thread is embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.2607067]

>>2607062
It was a console war from the OP, it was never destined for anything else. I honestly don't understand what people get out of these threads, they were stupid back in 1995 on Usenet and they're even more retarded today.

[Anonymous No.2607078]

>>2606968
Thanks. Just to note that I'm not trying to shit on the Saturn, in fact I like the thing. I just wanted to get some recs is all.

[Anonymous No.2607092]

>>2604692

Sony's success wasn't just due to using CDs and having an easy system to develop software on. The real reason for their success was that they dramatically changed the games distribution channel so that retailers, publishers and consumers would be happy. Sony cut out the Shoshinkai wholesaler system, dramatically reduced lead times and inventory risk. This was their "shoe in" to the console gaming market and why the huge publishers like Konami, Capcom, Square, Namco, etc eventually signed on.

[Anonymous No.2607098]

>>2606934
But the GTE wasn't a general purpose processor was it? AFAIK it was kind of a DSP/fixed function processor that only took care of converting a 3D projection of vertices to 2D, am I wrong? Couldn't the Saturn DSP be programmed to do that (you can do that with matrix transforms isn't it)?

[Anonymous No.2607160]

>>2607062

What do you expect? Sony shits are total lunatics.

[Anonymous No.2607162]

>>2607052

Wow, you're completely crazy.

You've got issues man. Get help.

[Anonymous No.2607167]

>>2607041

That image is so accurate it's scary. The neogaf logo is perfect.

[Anonymous No.2607174]

So wait, let me get this straight. Sony shits posted this thread hoping for a Sony circle jerk, and instead they got btfo and now they're raging and crying.

Great use of your time Sony shits.

[Anonymous No.2607178]

>>2605456

That almost happened too. Sony absorved ideas and knowledge from both companies before venturing alone.

juliette is my waifu, not even a furry

[Anonymous No.2607209]

>>2607098
Yes you can do that on the DSP, and there are sample programs to do it too (one released in late 1995). But if something went wrong with it, debugging was a bitch, plus you had to know the DSPs commands on top of the SH2, plus you had to code it in assembly.

Sony DSP could do quite a bunch of shit and it was way simpler to use.

Oh, and the GTE was also super fast, while the DSP only achieved better-than-SH2 speeds if you exploited its parallelism to maximum effect. Remember, it was operating at half the speed of the SH2s too.

[Anonymous No.2607428]

>>2607092
I didn't know Shoshinkai was the name of Nintendo's distribution company. I always assumed it was just a trade show.

[Anonymous No.2607450]

>>2607098
It helped that GTE was inside of the CPU die and functioned as a co-processor. The Saturn's DSP was inside yet ANOTHER independent processor.

[Anonymous No.2607475]

>>2605204

I think definitely people would have preferred the 3d capabilities of the n64. I can't really speak for Japan and the gaming culture of the time as I was stuck here in the States, but over here people definitely wanted 3d games.

From all the sources I can find the 3 best selling Saturn games (Virtua Figher 1 and 2 and Sega Rally Championship) were all 3d. The market lead without the PS1 may have given it a headstart but the N64 would still seem like the "new thing" when it hit, even moreso without the influence of the Playstation.

[Anonymous No.2607841]

>>2607178

Sony is like an evil parasite that consumes and destroys everything in it's path. In this case, the video game industry.

[Anonymous No.2608187]

>>2607178

not a furry but loved the cartoon and setting as a kid. Richelieu as a dog aint something you get very often.

[Anonymous No.2608195]

>>2606501
>but you could just tell the gpu to draw a quad, which made programming 2d games as easy as on the Saturn

Wasn't the 2D function for quads called "rectangle"? And it didn't involve any 3D at all?

[Anonymous No.2608281]

>>2603954
Amiga!

[Anonymous No.2608283]

>>2606932
You're right, the 32X framebuffer is a hardware overlay. External devices couldn't talk directly to the VDP in the genesis. Plus with no hardware interrupts the genesis was not a good add-on base. Ironic that it wound up with 2.

This is probably why the Saturn's cart slot has all those pins. Pretty much everything is connected through that such that they were much better prepared for future addons that never actually happened.

[Anonymous No.2608308]

>>2604102
>History has already decided this war. The N64 sold much better than the Saturn and had better selling games.
Yes, but what about third party games? There would be no Playstation so where would the third party developers go to? A lot went to SEGA during the Genesis. Not saying all third party developers would go straight to SEGA (Enix and Square would probably go back to Nintendo) but a lot would due to more freedom in making games or not liking Nintendo due to what they may have been subjugated to during the NES and/or SNES era.

[Anonymous No.2608402]

>>2604576
>Sega of America goes to war with Iran

Well that'd be new. Has a private corporation ever declared war on a nation before?

[Anonymous No.2608509]

>>2608402
Blackwater

[Anonymous No.2608557]

>>2603954
Nintendo would have comre on top because SoJ and SoA would have fucked up all the marketing once again. And that's coming from a Segafag.

[Anonymous No.2608569]

>>2608195
Well now that you mention it, I'm not sure you can do 4-point transforms on quads with the Playstation.

And neither the PSX nor the Saturn had any 3d on their polygon engine. They were dumb 2d framebuffers.

[Anonymous No.2608586]

>>2607428

No, the Shoshin-kai was a group of wholesalers (middle men), not Nintendo's distribution company although Nintendo did have a relationship with them. They are the sole reason why the Mask Rom supply chain was so brutal to publishers and retailers.

They were notorious for:
1. Dummy rentals (resale of old stock at a lower price)
2. Falsifying returns

The time from a game to reach RTM status to actual production was measured in months. Code shipped, put on schedule for production, manufacturing, packaging then shipped to wholesalers who then supplied stores.

A publisher had to have upfront capital for placing an order, then they had to guess at how well their game would sell. Print too many and you eat the cost. Print too little (to meet demand) and the Shoeshin-kai would drive prices up on a particular title. Even worse is that orders placed that didn't meet demand required a publisher to wait months again for additional cart production.

On the Sega side of things, there huge fuckup was continuing to use the Shoshinkai for CD distribution and it was a huge reason as to why Saturn did so horribly (minus the retarded hardware design).

Again, since Sony was the new kid on the block and didn't have the relationships in the distribution channel they decided to remove the middle men from the chain and implanted a direct sales system where they manufactured and distributed the software themselves. This allowed very fast lead times to production and Sony could monitor what games sold well and quickly put a title back into production to keep up with demand. Even though publishers weren't to thrilled by Sony owning the distribution channel the profit margins were so favorable compared to mask roms that it was hard not to agree.

Yeah the Playstation hardware and marketing was good but it would never had been as successful if it didn't revamp the entire outdated software supply chain.

[Anonymous No.2608813]

>>2608586
Was the Shoshinkai involved solely with Japanese market, or did they deal with overseas sales too?

[Anonymous No.2608815]

>>2605502
>Tiger Game.com
>Atari 5200
>Magnavox Odyssey
>Mattel Intelvision

Now, I'm hardly a Nintendo fanboy, but it seems they took good ideas which were TERRIBLY executed and did them a lot better.

Countless arcade cabinets had gun controllers for their games, the Magnavox Odyssey was... interesting, but incredibly bare bones, they did way more with the light gun than Magnavox ever did.

More buttons, that's just a result of games getting more complex, that's really just natural, everyone moved towards that.

PDA's had done touch screens before, with pens, the Tiger Game.com was really just an incredibly shitty PDA, and it's not like it's odd for someone to ape an idea if it's good enough, in any industry.

[Anonymous No.2608820]

>>2605545
Oh golly! Someone made an innovation and the industry followed, who would have thought the world worked like that?

[Anonymous No.2608849]

>>2608586
And remember, all of that was possible because Sony already had a production chain for CDs at the time.

[Anonymous No.2608890]

>>2606696
There was the Doctor V64 that let you copy games to CDs and play them, as well as VCDs because everything in the worse parts Asia between '96 and '06 always did for some reason.

[Anonymous No.2609032]

>>2607067

It's still a good subject though not possible because of shitposters.

Short answer is that Sega were racked with infighting that never would have survived past the Dreamcast and Nintendo Japan had a control freak complex over Nintendo America that eventually blew up in their face with the Nintendo America production staff walking across the road to new jobs in Microsoft.

Sony was the best of a bad bunch that generation considering how fucked up the competition outside of Nintendo and Sega was.

- 3DO was a flop due to the obscene price despite having pretty good hardware.
- Pippin was a flop despite big backers.The
- Amiga CD 32 barely got support in Europe and Commodore was doomed at that point.
- PC-FX didn't take off because it completely lacked 3D
- Atari Jaguar needs an entire book dedicated to unveiling what happened during that shitshow

Sony fucked up the least despite having some shitty policies dedicated to fucking over companies (No 2D games outside of big publishers were allowed released in the US and Europe or rental only after the press kicked the shit out of the PS1 version of SF Alpha. Completely fucked over SNK for one)

[Anonymous No.2609139]

>>2609032
Sony didn't "fucked up the least", the Playstation was pretty much perfect, as far as the a/v chipset was concerned. The only hardware problems it had were the shit CD drive, and the lack of background processor.

And the background processor was unnecessary because it was only needed for older style games, while the GTE, MDEC, and powerful gpu, were all very useful for newer style games.

Simply put the machine was designed in mind with the direction the industry was going at. I don't think any console ever managed to do that so efficiently.

The lack of 2d games was a stupid fucking policy, but it was perfectly understandable. They wanted to impress the most users, and people just weren't impressed with 2d titles (especially since the PSX sucked with those).

[CHAD PIFFINGTON No.2609193]

>>2603954
Sega had CD's. And cartridges were not as good. Nintendo also did not have a stranglehold on all the Devs. like they once did. I would say Saturn.

[Anonymous No.2609239]

>>2609139
>the Playstation was pretty much perfect
wobbly polygons

yeah, they fucked up.

[Anonymous No.2609249]

>>2609239
Much better that no DMA and no RGB.

[Anonymous No.2609251]

>>2609239
Literally graphics whore level masturbation.

[Anonymous No.2609260]

>>2609239
>wobbly polygons

Can you name a polygon accelerator from 1994 that could do better, while still having a CD drive, T&L chip, and sound synth, for less than $300?

[Anonymous No.2609273]

>>2609260
Nope.

[Anonymous No.2609457]

>>2603958
If by that you mean "ramp up an aggressive marketing campaign for their new 16-bit machine during the twilight years of Nintendo's 8-bit machine, then get squabble amongst themselves and get the shit kicked out of them so bad during the next generation that not even a successful Dreamcast would have saved them", then ok.

>>2605426
kek

[Anonymous No.2609475]

>>2603954
The Saturn would've done significantly better, especially in the West, but it wouldn't be a roaring success either. The Nintendo 64 would be about the same.

But what about all the other little platforms that Sony destroyed? I think that the 3DO and Jaguar might've had a few more years in them as low-cost alternatives to the "major" consoles, the PC-FX might have done marginally better but would still be an obscure otaku machine, and PC gaming would probably be unchanged except maybe slightly more popular.

[Anonymous No.2609579]

>>2609032
>>2609032
>It's still a good subject though not possible because of shitposters.
It was just one Anti-Sony retard in this thread and it seems the mods finally took care of him, since most of his shitposting has been deleted.

[Anonymous No.2610625]

I say N64. SEGA fucked up too much. But in this scenario, really, who knows.

[Anonymous No.2610824]

>>2604048
Anyone have a link to this podcast?

[Anonymous No.2610848]

>>2610824
I think it was this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDlhclXHZF0

If not, if you have the patience you can just listen to his other interviews:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Blake+Harris%2C+long

[Anonymous No.2610854]

>>2604028
All of that would have happened anyway, just in another manner.

[Anonymous No.2610857]

>>2606749
This sound like something from Tails Gets Trolled

[Anonymous No.2611289]

Crash Bandicoot, Spyro AND Sonic on the same system to dank out the plumber completely.

[Anonymous No.2611324]

>>2611289
You kidding? Those three would never work together.

[Anonymous No.2611325]

>>2611289

>crash bandicoot and spyro are on the same league as Mario and Sonic

[Anonymous No.2611350]

>>2611289
Actually, both would most likely stick to the 3DO.

[Anonymous No.2611358]

>>2611325
Yeah, why not? Starting from the fact I love the original Sonic games and hold them on a pedestal, why shouldn't Crash or Spyro being able to stand out for what they are? That is, well crafted games in their own right?

[Anonymous No.2611364]

>>2611325
Crash 2 is better than any Sonic game, fact.

[Anonymous No.2611369]

>>2611358

I guess we have different opinions, to me they're still inferior western platformers.

>>2611364
lol

[Anonymous No.2611374]

>>2611369
>Crash and Spyro
>inferior western platformers
Zip it weeb.

[Anonymous No.2611385]

>>2611369
Sonic 2 was literally worked on by a couple of people who then directed Spyro. And Crash, an expanded DKC (which was also an acclaimed western game), was marketed as a homeland product in Japan and people kinda bought it, so it must not have felt that "inferior western" to them I think.

[Anonymous No.2611390]

>>2611385

I didn't know Yuji Naka and his Sonic Team later went on to make Spyro, curious (and false!)

[Anonymous No.2611402]

>>2611390
I worded it out badly, I meant TWO of people that later were heavily involved on Spyro have had considerable input in Sonic 2, that is Mark Cerny and Craig Stitt.

[Anonymous No.2611417]

>>2611364
This is the shittest opinion I've ever seen.

[Anonymous No.2611423]

>>2611402

What "heavily involvement" did they have on Sonic 2?

Cerny also did Knack, lol.

[Anonymous No.2611425]

>>2611423
I said considerable input, and who cares about the industry today.

[Anonymous No.2611429]

>>2611423
Cerny was a programmer and Stitt was one of the Zone designer.

>Cerny also did Knack, lol.
And Naka was the producer for Sonic Adventure and Sonic R. What's your point?

[Anonymous No.2611432]

>>2611429
Not him but don't pick on Sonic R

[Anonymous No.2611443]

>>2611429

The only reason Sonic 2 is a good game is because Yuji Naka was in America at the time and you know it.

[Anonymous No.2611452]

>>2611443
What even is your point.

[Anonymous No.2611453]

>>2611452

What was yours?

[Anonymous No.2611461]

>>2611453
That Mario and Sonic aren't these unreachable Holy Grails, and that other games (even if western) can compare to them. Of course some iterations would get closer than others.

[Anonymous No.2611491]

>>2611461
>other games (even if western) can compare to them

But those would be incorrect comparisons.

[Anonymous No.2611495]

>>2611491
Because they're not developed in Glorious Nippon, right?

[Anonymous No.2611501]

>>2610848
>>2604048

The book is OK but it's trying to paint Nintendo as the villains too much to fit a movie script and completely gladhands Sony like Sony actually trashing and breaking Sega's CES hotel presentation or intentionally trying to buy up the UK scene because they didn't want Sega to sign the Amiga developers to the Saturn that only gets mentioned in a sentence.

The podcast stuff gets interesting but it still has a kinda good guys/bad guys vibe. Especially as "Game Over: Press Start to Continue" by David Sheff was able to do a Nintendo biography without picking sides and actually went into some of the struggles NOA had in dealing with NCL (There was already emerging petty jealousy between East and West studios despite NCL programmers having a fascination with ZX Spectrum games from the UK during the 80's. Once it hit the 90's and games went global, suddenly they felt very under threat)

[Anonymous No.2611509]

>>2611495
No. It's because they're objectively not as good. I'm not sure why you think I'm the same weeaboo guy from before.

[Anonymous No.2611516]

>>2611509
I would argue Comix Zone and Kid Chameleon were as good as anything by Sega's Japanese branches.

[Anonymous No.2611525]

>>2611509
>No. It's because they're objectively not as good.
>objectively

Nah. While may have some good games in their respective series (at least early on), Mario and Sonic still ain't that level of great in the gist of things either.

[Anonymous No.2611527]

>>2611516
And, you know, Technically speaking Sonic 2 was made in the US by STI.

[Anonymous No.2611870]

>the saturn and the ps1 both had a discs therefore the saturn would've gotten all of the ps1's game

It's not that simple. Sony reached out to developers and sucked their dicks to develop on the PS1. There's no telling who would've went to the saturn, considering how much of a nightmare it was to develop for.

That doesn't even count games like Crash Bandicoot, which were made because Sony was a new brand in gaming and wanted to jump on the train to be their mascot.

[Upstandingnazi !!rS9w8mZfW8H No.2611897]

[Anonymous No.2611905]

>>2611897
Leeeeave it!

[Anonymous No.2611995]

>>2611905
Don't, just don't.

[Anonymous No.2612002]

>>2611870
What a shame most of /vr/ knows about games development as the average /v/ kiddie does.

[Anonymous No.2612004]

>>2611995
Yes we should continue flinging shit at each other over our favorite toys.

[Anonymous No.2612018]

>>2612002

Is that agreeing with the post or disagreeing with it?

[Anonymous No.2612021]

Wow another console wars shit fest started by the same pathetic fanbase.

[Anonymous No.2612031]

>>2612018
Agreeing.

[Anonymous No.2612151]

Worst topic ever.

[Anonymous No.2612161]

>>2612151
You didn't need to bump the thread for that.

[Anonymous No.2612163]

>>2612031
Well then he's plain wrong because Naughty Dog choosing PlayStation as their development platform was a well pondered decision. Sony didn't actually reach to them, and Crash Bandicoot was never considered to be Sony's mascot until late in development.

[Anonymous No.2612185]

>>2611429
did cerny really program sonic 2 (or any of the tools used)?

[Anonymous No.2612223]

>>2611369

You being a filthy weaboo doesn't mean Crash and Spyro aren't in the same league as Mario and Sonic.

[Anonymous No.2612269]

Let's bump this awesome topic for all the butt hurt Nintendorks and Sega Sucks.

[Anonymous No.2612361]

>>2605468

[Anonymous No.2612362]

>>2612361
Also

>implying sony ripped off the wii

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHJAyCICw4

[Anonymous No.2612368]

Wow nintendo fans are so bitter ITT

[Anonymous No.2612372]

>>2612361
Haha, what? Half of those are super-obtuse descriptions of industry standards that Nintendo never trumpted as their own or are outright WRONG on who "invented" them first. I'm surprised you didn't blame them for ripping of the idea of the button or having their console powered by electricity.

[Anonymous No.2612378]

>>2612223
You repeating ad nauseum that Crash and Spyro ARE in the same league doesn't change the truth that they're actually not. I mean, you can convince yourself, you can convince maybe a few other people, but that doesn't actually change the truth itself. It's kind of sad to live life like that, you know?

[Anonymous No.2612395]

>>2612368
*sega fans

[Anonymous No.2612405]

>>2612378
>You repeating ad nauseum that Crash and Spyro ARE in the same league doesn't change the truth that they're actually not.
Not that guy, but maybe not in terms of franchise popularity; in terms of the actual games it's really more subjective than you think.

[Anonymous No.2612407]

>>2612405

Crash Bandicoot was at least as popular in the late 90's as Sonic was in the early 90's.

[Anonymous No.2612412]

>>2612395
>>2612368

It's more being bitter against Sony together, because that's just what they like to do. Sony just appears to be fun to hate.

[Anonymous No.2612439]

>>2612269
>>2612368
>>2612412
Or it's just an entire series of false-flagging from dipshits that crossboarded out of /v/, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

[Anonymous No.2612463]

>>2612439
What surprises me is how these mods have decided to leave this very obvious console war thread up.

[Anonymous No.2612480]

>>2612463
hahah, WHAT mods?

[Anonymous No.2612489]

>>2612463
theres only monkeys doubling as janitors here, in case you didnt know

[Anonymous No.2612496]

>>2612463
This could have been an interesting topic of discussion though. And it was at first, before the fanboys (of all sides) arrived.

[Anonymous No.2613660]

>>2611870
>Sony reached out to developers and sucked their dicks and gave them a shitload of cash to develop on the PS1

Added a bit. Sony gave companies like Namco mountains of cash for exclusivity and to use their hardware in arcade boards and paid a lot of European publishers for support including buying out Psygnosis despite Psygnosis having signed contracts for the N64 and Saturn (Sony cheekily tried to cancel them in production due to "Quality concerns". Sega and Nintendo teamed up in court and the Judge threw the book at Sony, made Sony pay for the development and publishing costs and made them pay legal costs to Nintendo)

Sony basically created timed exclusivity compared to the Portfolio concepts Sega and Nintendo worked on where they would grant licenses based on what games were pitched by the third parties on how they needed them for the system's Portfolio. Nintendo were biased towards a lot of RPG's and platformers while Genesis got biased towards fast sports and action games and they licensed by focus groups and what they needed. Sometimes both licensed for the same game because both needed it.

Biggest example being Mortal Kombat. Ted Kalinske and Howard Lincoln both hated Mortal Kombat's content and were initially repulsed by it at trade shows. It became a smash hit, Acclaim bought home system rights and both had to have this hot game on their systems. Kalinske authorised it on Genesis first. When NOA found out Sega got it, they signed for it but made Acclaim remove all traces of blood. Sega didn't want the blood either and Kalinske had a moral quandary over it. Eventually he took a suggestion from his team to allow the blood as a "cheat code" so younger players wouldn't see it but older players could check their EGM for it. He still didn't feel great about it though.

Console wars is a good book for interesting things like that

[Anonymous No.2613690]

>>2613660

>*by using focus groups and examining the portfolio to see what they needed and if 1st party had it covered

Fuck. Fixed it.

[Anonymous No.2613713]

>>2604569
I don't see why they would be upset about making lots of money, but the behavior of a lot of Japanese companies mystifies me.

Anyway, I was under the impression that it was a number of different things that led to the Saturn bombing here, all of which were retarded in retrospect.

[Anonymous No.2613746]

>>2613660
>That feel when the TurboGrafx could've gotten timed exclusivity for Mortal Kombat, but NEC's inept management nixed that deal.

[Anonymous No.2613835]

>>2604569
>>2613713

Sega Japan didn't like the guy who masterminded the victory over them was being brought in to unfuck Sega. Never mind the fact he was doing things like bringing in Marketing managers from Reebok, Swatch and other lifestyle companies to properly launch the thing world wide. Both sides did really dumb things. Sega US had an option to localize Grandia to have something out to temp people away from FF VII but preferred to focus on Panzer Dragoon Saga because "It was 3D" (PDS got delayed multiple times). EGM tore Stollar a new asshole for it.

But then Japanese corporations are still weird to this day. Generally they don't like other, more successful branches to tell them what to do or get autonomy to make decisions on their own.

>>2613746

It was a last ditch pressure tactic on Sega to license it, really. Kalinske hated it. Sega America thought it was repulsive. Both Nintendo and Sega's "Buyers" (I don't have the book on hand but both companies had a gaming expert who would go out to tradeshows, try the game and say if it was a good fit or not) thought it wasn't mechanically sound but it was fun and full of secrets for longevity after going out to location tests. Both had Street Fighter 2 at that point (Sega signed for an exclusive revision released that year as a holiday game). Other fighting games were appearing. Nintendo signed a lot of them. Neither had a good incentive other than "It made a lot of money in the arcades" but then a lot of bad arcade games made good money.

Kalinske eventually believed if they don't sign it, it would hurt the brand after their whole MTV Generation "Welcome To The Next Level" campaign and a new competitor could easily swoop in the market and take it and the "cool" factor Sega had. So he inevitably signed.

[Anonymous No.2614617]

>>2612480
>>2612489
You're thinking of /v/. /vr/ has quite draconian (and it seems biased) mods.

>>2612496
I don't know about that, the thread seemed like console war bait right from the get go.

[Anonymous No.2617081]

bump