/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2598931]

Was the Sega Saturn a poor system overall?

[Anonymous No.2598953]

Probably.

The hardware was very complex and hard to program for, so third party support wasn't going to be as good as, say, the PS1.

It did have some good games though. If you wanted near arcade perfect shmups and fighters, the Saturn was great. Also had a decent selection of JRPGs, but unfortunately few of them were localized.

I think perhaps saying it was a flawed system would be more accurate. But maybe that's splitting hairs. I feel like maybe if Sega had some better marketing and better relations with third party developers, it could have been a somewhat different story.

[Anonymous No.2598961]

>>2598953
This.

The system has pretty good quality games.

[Anonymous No.2598962]

>>2598953
> saying it was a flawed system would be more accurate.

this. I feel its a really underrated system.

[Anonymous No.2598963]

>>2598931
In America yes. Still a lot of great imports for the Saturn that carried the system in japan but by god, the promos sega did for the Saturn in the US were awesome

[Anonymous No.2598973]

>>2598963
They sent you a free updated virtua fighters and shit like that

They really pushed this system, I wish I got one on launch

[Anonymous No.2598976]

>>2598953
>If you wanted near arcade perfect shmups

Probably the best console for shooters along with the PC Engine and Dreamcast imo. It's hell to buy for though.

[Anonymous No.2598989]

Not if you speak Japanese.

[Anonymous No.2599007]

>>2598976
modchips + blank cd's are hella cheap. also rhea

[Anonymous No.2599008]

>>2598976

you just modchip it or softmod with a AR cart, and you play backups.

[Anonymous No.2599010]

>>2598931
in 5th gen console library terms it was arguably 2nd best overall and definite best for a few genres.

5th gen was a poor gen imo

[Anonymous No.2599017]

>>2599007
>>2599008

I know about these options and I have an AR cart. I just like to own the games.

[Anonymous No.2599027]

If you want Fighting games and Shooters it's a fucking awesome console.

[Anonymous No.2599035]

Kalinske was right

When it comes right down to it, it's the Saturn that missed its mark by the furthest of any Sega console.

Sega was always a hardware company that took big risks by rushing their products to the market and it really only ever paid off one time, with the Mega Drive and that was pretty much entirely thanks to Kalinske's genius "Nintendon't" marketing blitz.

If Sega had listened to Kalinske and never even developed Saturn things might be different today. The Mega Drive+32x+Mega CD is powerful enough to produce games that could have rivaled early Playstation games if the Japanese devs had gone to work on it in earnest. It was hard to code for but so was Saturn. By '94, an all-in-one unit (Jupiter) could have been sold for less than Playstation's launch price to the "new school" of gamers with backward compatibility to the enormous existing library and the old schoolers would have already had it in tower form.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4m6atNu2k

Yes, Playstation would have pulled ahead in the second or third wave of games but those studios that were looking to jump ship from Nintendo may have found Sega more appealing if they hadn't made such stupid recent mistakes.

Without their hardware team wasting all that time on Saturn, they probably could have accelerated Naomi's development and dropped the Dreamcast in '98.

What a wonderful world it would be.

[Anonymous No.2599039]

>>2599035
I think I would rather not have the 32x or Sega CD.

I think those two things really hurt Sega, as well as just made them unappealing to third party devs.

[Anonymous No.2599049]

>>2599035

I think it should have been the other way around, Saturn should have been better marketed in the US (as in, don't do a stupid surprise launch to annoy retailers who then refused to sell it).
I still can't understand why SoA released the 32X, I've read it's because SoJ kept the Saturn a secret or some bullshit, but I refuse to believe they were that badly communicated. I just think both parts were very stubborn, and after the success of the genesis, SoA got cocky.

[Anonymous No.2599053]

>>2598931
technologically it was a pain in the dick

the library is great though albeit mostly moonrune

[Anonymous No.2599054]

>>2599039
The only reason you feel that way is because of the dropped support or more accurately the complete lack of support from SoJ. In this world you would have gotten your same games that came out on Saturn earlier, in some cases WAY earlier add a reward for early adoption by upgrading your mega drive. If you weren't one of those people you would have been able to buy your Sega brand 5th gen console earlier cheaper and with full backward compatibility.

[Anonymous No.2599058]

Clusterfuck of a system with one of the greatest game libraries of all time.

[Anonymous No.2599060]

>>2599039
>two things
You mean the 32X right? Because the CD was a modest success with a fairly good game library that was supported for years. This must be a mistake you've made, it can't just be that you get your information on retro consoles from Youtube, can it?

[Anonymous No.2599061]

>>2598953
>Also had a decent selection of JRPGs, but unfortunately few of them were localized.
I wish someone would take the SFC Chaos Seeed translation and put it onto the Saturn version.

[Anonymous No.2599065]

>>2599035
They wanted to be first to the market. No matter how great your product is, this is almost never a good idea unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.2599070]

>>2599065
Adding to that, it's a bit sad that the Megadrive gained marketshare in the US not because of its merits as a 16-bit system, but because it was perceived as a better alternative to the NES (which was the direct competitor, and not the SNES). In a sense, Sega was perceived as being "late" to the market for 'murica (which never cared for the SC1000, SC3K, MasterSystem…), which a technically more mature product (prettier than the NES).

[Anonymous No.2599072]

>>2599054
If they had released a "Genesis 2", that just had everything built in and you didn't have like 3 power cables for the thing, I could see it being more successful. And just skip the add-ons entirely, because they were just a hassle.

But if they did that, I think I would have rather them push the Saturn back a couple years and improve its hardware so it could do 3D better. Then it could very easily have competed with the PS1.

>>2599060
Well, I don't get my information from youtube, I can say that much. Although perhaps I let some of my personal bias influence what I said. I've played maybe two or three Sega CD games that I liked and said "yes, this was a good use of CD technology and justifies the hardware existing, and I'm glad it was made so that I could experience the game".

So perhaps it was successful, and I just haven't had the best experience with it.

[Anonymous No.2599090]

>>2599072
>push the Saturn back a couple years and improve its hardware so it could do 3D better. Then it could very easily have competed with the PS
What you're talking about is Dreamcast.

>>2599070
Why is it sad? It's genius and by skipping Saturn completely, dragging mega drive along for a few more years easily they could have done the exact same thing again. "Dreamcast is what Playstain't"

[Anonymous No.2599105]

>>2599090
>Dreamcast is what Playstain't
I'm not sure if that's brilliant or retarded

[Anonymous No.2599107]

>>2599105

All I hear is "taint".

[Anonymous No.2599113]

>>2599105
>>2599107
I'm sure Kalinske could have come up with something way better if his shogun overlords hasn't forced him to sudoku at the end of the Mega dynasty.

[Anonymous No.2599115]

>>2598931
Only if you didn't know how to import.

[Anonymous No.2599162]

>>2599035
the CD+32X+Genesis combo is a literal nightmare of bottlenecking and timing issues because of both machine's dependence on the Genesis

what really happens is you run everything on the 32X and occasionally load data from CD (with its slow-ass 1X drive)
the Genesis ends up only being there to bottleneck everything, it's the slowest component of the machine
with the 32X, you actually end up dealing with all the Saturn's retarded CPU layout decisions, and without the benefit of dedicated 3D hardware

The Saturn's design is less retarded than putting together a full Sega tower of Genesis addons. It has the raw combined CPU power, but is otherwise the worst architecture I can think of.

I really wonder what Sega's arcade hardware teams were doing at the time? They could have done something better than the Saturn on a home-console budget.

the two things that murdered the Saturn right off the bat were
>fucking $399 (why)
>early launch (WHY, I can't even think of how this would benefit Sega, not when they had neither the supply nor the games for that shit)

>>2599049
>but I refuse to believe they were that badly communicated
oh man, you don't fucking know:
earlier on, the US team didn't get working Sega CDs from SoJ during much of its development
SoA had no idea when the Saturn was coming out until developers did, all they knew was that it was a project that was happening.

the stories of SoJ being completely retarded and uncommunicative are understated as fuck
32X wasn't even supposed to have Saturn tech in it, it was going to be a beefed up SVP in a box. That came from the Japanese.

[Anonymous No.2599176]

>>2599090
It's sad because a large part of the system's library consist of ports from the older gen. In the US, the Dreamcast already seemed to be a PS1/N64 competitor, not a brand new gen that was meant to go head-to-head with the PS2. So you could keep your PS1 to play Legacy of Kain, and upgrade to the DC and play the same Legacy of Kain with slight improvements that are not really worth the extra cost for most consumers (parents buying shit for their kids).

[Anonymous No.2599197]

It has possibly the worst localization of any console ever, only the Turbografx-16 comes close. Putting the JAP and US game library together you get an excellent console and selection of games but otherwise it's lacking.

SEGA were putting out killer stuff in Arcades at the time, rather than fuck around with the 32x they really should've focused their efforts on bringing that experience home. Had the Saturn been slightly better at 3D it would've fared better.

[Anonymous No.2599207]

Saturn would have been a lot better if they just went with the hardware Silicon Graphics offered Kalinske (and instead ended up in the N64).

N64 hardware easily had the best performance for price ratio from a manufacturing perspective of that generation. That was mostly due to Nintendo's insistence on a motherboard with the minimum number of buses and data pins, which is unfortunately where most of the programming issues on that machine arose from (the hated RDRAM was specifically chosen because it worked with way fewer pins than other types of RAM).

If Sega had produced N64-based hardware with a CD-drive and at a similar manufacturing price to Sony's PS1, you'd be looking at a system that could soundly thrash its competition.

[Anonymous No.2599209]

>>2599162
Jupiter could have had a 4x drive. At the arcade, the ST-V board was the same as Saturn (that's where they got it). The 3D "Powerhouse" was the Model 1-2-3 series that gave us Virtua Fighter. It's basically a Genesis with added 3D hardware and more RAM so you can see how mid 90s Sega hardware was fairly parallel at home and the arcade.

[Anonymous No.2599223]

>>2599162
>I really wonder what Sega's arcade hardware teams were doing at the time? They could have done something better than the Saturn on a home-console budget.

The Saturn *was* their arcade hardware on a home-console budget.

Originally it was supposed to have a single V60 cpu, and possibly no cd drive. Then they went for cd-drive only design. Then they saw the PSX specs and changed the cpu to a twin SH2.

>earlier on, the US team didn't get working Sega CDs from SoJ during much of its development

I've heard that SoA got informed about the Sega CD existing when SoJ publically announced it. Same with the Saturn - once they knew about it, they tried opposing the 32x idea, but they weren't allowed to stop that.

[Anonymous No.2599224]

>>2599209
Other way around, the st-v board came out later to encourage saturn development.
But yes, you're correct, the saturn hardware is based on a severely gimped model 2

[Anonymous No.2599231]

>>2599209
>>2599224
Model 1/2/3 had nothing to do with the Genesis.

Saturn had nothing to do with Model 1/2/3 either, other than some games being ported from one to the other, and the Model 2/3 getting the Saturn sound chip later on (two of them even).

Saturn was based on System 32 super scaler hardware.

[Anonymous No.2599238]

Saturn wasn't good from a price perspective, a hardware power perspective, nor a easy programmability perspective.

It's hard to goof this much.

[Anonymous No.2599261]

>>2599231
32x was clearly inspired by System 32 albeit much stripped down to be consumer level. The 4 meg ram cart and a little black magic could have seen a lot more ports and arcade-inspired tech.

[Anonymous No.2599295]

>>2599231
Makes sense. The 3D capabilities of the saturn remind me of model 2 though because of the use of quadrilaterals, etc.

[Anonymous No.2599301]

as a machine itself, it wasn't bad.

But it was probably one of the most mismanaged consoles ever.

[Anonymous No.2599432]

>>2599035
>Kalinske responsible for Nintendon't campaign

Actually that was Michael Katz.........
Kalinske is responsible for MUH BLAST PROCESSING

Also, I like Kalinske a lot (even chatted with him on skype because he's THAT nice of a guy) I feel like people take what he says too seriously. Of course in hindsight it's easy for him to say "oh yeah, this is what I would have done" but in reality if you look at his interviews in magazines at the time he wanted two products (32x and Saturn) to essentially compete with each other in the same market and that wouldn't have been a good idea.

[Anonymous No.2599490]

>>2598931
It was lacking in variety, but if you were an arcade gamer it was utterly spectacular especially if you got into importing.

[Anonymous No.2599541]

>>2599261
You mean Saturn. People who worked on emulating the system 32 pretty much confirmed that it works the same way as the Saturn.

The 4 meg ram cart honestly doesn't help that much since it only adds a third memory bank. You are still limited in VRAM. In a 3d game, the 4meg cart would help extremely little.
It's neat for having a lot of stuff loaded that you don't immediately need, though. That why it was awesome for Xmen vs SF where it kept the entire other character in memory, and also things like the main menu of the game to ease up on loading.

[Anonymous No.2599623]

>>2599035
Well they should have chosen one system, either the Sega Mega Zord or the Saturn but not both.
Also, the idea of the 32X being only the SVP chip would've been cool if the add-on was cheap enough.
Another thing that would have helped SEGA is not to make the Sega CD almost a standalone console, since that made the price very high and the adoption of the CD format very low (I suppose it needed to have hardware more powerful than the Genesis in order to do FMV?).

[Anonymous No.2599632]

OP just watched gamesacks latest vid

admit it nigga

[Anonymous No.2599707]

>>2599035
>Kalinske was right
Kalinske is a dickhead who's taking the advantage of two decades of hindsight to shit talk his former employer. It's pretty easy to sit back now and claim that you were right all along. Woulda, shoulda, coulda, as my brother says. Fuck that guy.

[Anonymous No.2599714]

>>2599707
It's pretty easy to sit back now and claim that you were right all along when you made a new for SEGA in North America, took them from less than 10% of the market to 65% in a year and watched it all crumble away as soon as you're removed from power.

[Anonymous No.2599717]

>>2599714
>made a new
*made a name

God damn it

[Anonymous No.2599724]

>>2599010
>5th gen was a poor gen imo
Panzer Dragoon
NiGHTS
Burning Rangers

[Anonymous No.2599740]

>>2599724
It had its fair share of great games, but just looking at all of the 5th gen, a lot of developers struggled with getting 3D to look decent, run well, and play well.

[Anonymous No.2599751]

>>2599740
Except you got people calling multiple games from from the generation the best of the genre or the best of all time. You got a ton of games that are unique.

[Anonymous No.2599773]

>>2599751
Well I'd probably disagree with quite a few of those people.

I do agree that there were a ton of unique games. Every time I go on a PS1 binge, I think about how I miss games that just had random ass ideas that you'd never seen before. But a lot of games just miss the mark on a technical level.

Like, I think FFIX would be the greatest JRPG ever if the battles weren't so slow.

Then of course you had tons of 3D games with just awful framerates.

[Anonymous No.2599796]

>>2599773
Framerate is just an issue that all the hardware had.

Now I'm not saying these are the best of all time or best in the genre but many people often claim games like SotN, FF7, Panzer Dragoon Saga, OoT, Radiant Silvergun, GoldenEye, etc

There's more and there's also a long list of unique games. Only other generation I see get close to much praise is 4thgen. At the same time I see 5th gen as whole hated solely because of graphics. But I think that's younger people and "casuals".

[Anonymous No.2599813]

>>2599773
I swear, this obsession with framerates in retro games is spillage from master race shit on /v/.

If a game is a good one, I don't care if it has slowdown dips to 20fps, it's still a good game.

And pointing at 5th generation 3D games is just dishonest. If you can't play games with some slowdown, that rules out half the SNES library (and doing so would be bullshit).

[Anonymous No.2599825]

>>2599813
>And pointing at 5th generation 3D games is just dishonest. If you can't play games with some slowdown, that rules out half the SNES library (and doing so would be bullshit).
That and sprite flicker along with graphic glitches/garbage on screen seem to be completely ignored. Demon's crest is plagued with that shit but nobody ever lists it as a con.

Meanwhile 5thgen gets so much shit for fps dips or low fps.

[Anonymous No.2599832]

>>2599796
People claim a lot of things. I once proclaimed GoldenEye to be amazing and one of the best shooters ever. Then I played some PC shooters like Doom and Quake, and Goldeneye is now borderline unplayable to me.

Perspective matters a lot. Bias and nostalgia can also factor in.

That's why I was just focusing on the games on a purely technical level.

>>2599813
Well there were a lot of games that just straight up ran at 20fps. Forget slowdown.

But I'm not saying I hate or don't play games that have poor framerates or framerate drops, I'm just saying it was a legitimate technical flaw.

Framerates CAN effect the quality of a game though. Particularly any kind of action game. It just totally kills the pacing, and in the worst cases, framerate drops can cause the game to eat your input.

Also, I haven't been to /v/ in at least two years.

[Anonymous No.2599840]

>>2599832
I separate consoles and PCs. GoldenEye is still great for couch co op.

>purely technical level
What does that mean? You look at the game specs and nothing else?

[Anonymous No.2599863]

>>2599832
>>2599840
Goldeneye is just plain over rated. If it didn't have multiplayer, no one would've given a shit.

[Anonymous No.2599872]

>>2599863
Ya let me just phrase it by if game x didn't have [insert feature that if lacked would win my argument] then it would be bad.

[Anonymous No.2599873]

>>2599840
It was just for the sake of this argument. I was pointing out how a lot developers struggled with the whole 3D thing.

>>2599863
It had some interesting ideas. Like how higher difficulties required you to complete additional objectives beyond just basically getting to the end of the level. And a lot of difficulty modes at that time were basically just "do the same thing but you take more damage", so it challenged you in more interesting ways.

Perfect Dark improved upon it in every way, but it still suffers from awkward as hell controls.

[Anonymous No.2599885]

>>2599873
>It was just for the sake of this argument. I was pointing out how a lot developers struggled with the whole 3D thing.
I'd argue that they struggled more in 6thgen. Almost none of the games on PS2 for example actually use the PS2 hardware capabilities. They just scraped by at low FPS not because of technical limitation but laziness.

[Anonymous No.2599897]

>>2599049
SoA didn't want to release the 32X after hearing about the Saturn, but SoJ made them.

[Anonymous No.2599920]

>>2599897
32X came out in december 94. They expected the Saturn to come out mid 96 but the Japs decided to have a surprise launch.

[Anonymous No.2600031]

>>2599863
>if a game didn't have a key feature, it wouldn't be as good

No shit. That's like saying "Man if Mario 64 didn't have jumping no one would like it."

[Anonymous No.2600071]

>>2599885
That's an apples and oranges comparison.

Early 5th gen games struggled at 3d because no one outside Yu Suzuki and Carmack knew how the hell to code 3d games. It was a completely grey area, that required a lot of new type of thinking.

PS2 struggled at keeping decent framerates because it used hardware totally different from the typical configuration of the era. It had broken hardware but with an insane amount of bandwidth. You had to abuse that crazy bandwidth to spoon feed the rest of the hardware very carefully.

On any other hardware, you just uploaded all required textures once, and then told the rasterizers to go to town.

[Anonymous No.2600078]

>>2600071
>Early 5th gen games struggled at 3d because no one outside Yu Suzuki and Carmack knew how the hell to code 3d games. It was a completely grey area, that required a lot of new type of thinking.
Complete bullshit.
3d polygons have been in arcades for 10 years prior to 5th gen.


The PS2 stuff just comes down to laziness more than anything.

[Anonymous No.2600094]

>>2600078
The people working on arcades weren't always the same as the ones working on consoles.

There was an anecdote Yu Suzuki mentioned once, that when he told some of his staff to do something in 3d, they just told that that wasn't their job (doing a 2d platformer requires completely different math than doing 3d tranformations). He told them that very soon, it will be, since the entire industry was gearing towards 3d. He was right.

>The PS2 stuff just comes down to laziness more than anything.

More like deadlines. And being unaware of how radically different the hardware was. And needing a lot of time to figure out the best way to get the most out of this totally different type of hardware.

[Anonymous No.2600097]

>>2600094
>And needing a lot of time to figure out the best way to get the most out of this totally different type of hardware.
aka laziness. Not sure why people are so apologetic about PS2 developers.

[Anonymous No.2600113]

>>2600097
>aka laziness.

It was an enormous task and you had no time to learn because you had to get shit done in the meantime.

That's not laziness any more than failing at becoming a karate master without having the ten or twenty years of training you need to become one.

The only reason why people became better was due to the hardware being on the market for long enough for people to figure it out, and because devkits became better and better as time went on - helping you with figuring out how to get the best performance.

>Not sure why people are so apologetic about PS2 developers.

Because some of us here are developers who have a better idea on how things work than you do.

[Anonymous No.2600131]

>>2600113
So what's your apologetic excuse for all the GTA games not taking advantage of the system?
They all have slowdown, inconstant fps, and no progressive scan option.

Oh and I can keep naming other big name titles before you pull the that "it's an exception" excuse. Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, anything from Naughty Dog, etc.

Keep in mind we're talking about games that released years after the launch of the PS2.

[Anonymous No.2600645]

>>2599832
>muh Goldeneye boogieman
Gee I wonder how I knew it was /v/ master race spillage

Just get over the idea people had fun with an FPS that wasn't on PC for chrissake

>>2599863
>If it didn't have multiplayer, no one would've given a shit.
Yeah, I guess that's why the Thief developers cited Goldeneye's single player as their greatest inspiration

>>2599885
>They just scraped by at low FPS not because of technical limitation but laziness.
Nah, the PS2 had power under the bonnet, but it was a nightmare to optimize. It combined some of the worst aspects of PS1 (the lack of useful built-in functions), Saturn (reliance on syncing multiple processors together) and N64 (difficult memory management) in that regard.

[Anonymous No.2600651]

>>2600645
>Nah, the PS2 had power under the bonnet, but it was a nightmare to optimize. It combined some of the worst aspects of PS1 (the lack of useful built-in functions), Saturn (reliance on syncing multiple processors together) and N64 (difficult memory management) in that regard.
That's still laziness. Lot of great looking stuff on Saturn. Some of the ports like Croc had better textures on Saturn.

[Anonymous No.2600661]

>The Master System sold better in Europe and Brazil
>The Genesis and Dreamcast sold better in America
>The Saturn was only truly successful system in their home territory of Japan
Why was Sega's success all over the place with their consoles?

[Anonymous No.2600667]

>>2600661
'cause Sega can't into marketing.

[Anonymous No.2600669]

>>2600651
>That's still laziness
There's only so many hours in a day. To produce effects like bump mapping on PS2 you need to do up a decent multipass renderer, while on Gamecube the feature is already built in and you don't need to spend weeks on doing it up.
> Some of the ports like Croc had better textures on Saturn.
Yeah but it was worse in literally every other way.

[Anonymous No.2600672]

>>2600669
>There's only so many hours in a day. To produce effects like bump mapping on PS2 you need to do up a decent multipass renderer, while on Gamecube the feature is already built in and you don't need to spend weeks on doing it up.
That doesn't really excuse a half assed game. "Oh well we could make this game look and run great but that would take time".

I'm not trying to call you a fanboy but you sure do seem apologetic on Sony's behalf.

[Anonymous No.2600681]

>>2600672
I'd argue Gamecube hardware was more seriously underutilized than PS2.

The number of games that take advantage of the TEV shader feature can probably be counted on two hands.

PS2 games would be straight ported to Gamecube, with absolutely no improvements (sometimes with worse texture quality because developers couldn't be bothered working with Gamecube's seperate RAM pools). Now that's laziness.

[Anonymous No.2600686]

>>2600681
Most of the "big" GC games have progressive scan and run at 60fps smoothly. Exception like Sunshine that runs at 30fps.
>PS2 games would be straight ported to Gamecube, with absolutely no improvements (sometimes with worse texture quality because developers couldn't be bothered working with Gamecube's seperate RAM pools). Now that's laziness.
I agree, Most of the ports to GC were lazy garbage.

I kinda blame PS2 for this though. It seems the developers were not willing to put much more work into the game.

[Anonymous No.2601196]

>>2600661
>in America

Well, Genesis was overall more successful in second world countries.

[Anonymous No.2601219]

>>2601196
Only third-world countries call the Megadrive a "Genesis".

[Anonymous No.2601224]

Do any of you guys know which is the best Saturn emulator to use? Well I mean, I know they are all pretty shit, but which one is the least shitty?

[Anonymous No.2601242]

>>2600645
> aspects of PS1 (the lack of useful built-in functions)
what do you exactly mean?

>>2600669
>All the bump-mapping jazz
AFAIK the PS2 had also a huge fill-rate, and one way to take advance of it was to do multi-texture rendering. The Gamecube had many built in stuff like positional lights, and while it made easier to implement that, the performance took a hit per light added, o you could really do only one (I read that stuff at some Sega-16 thread, but my memory is not being accurate, it was along the line of what I said for the GC).
The PS2 was a lot more flexible as well.

>>2600661
I think the Mega Drive sold more in Europe than the SNES, while the SNES was on top (not by much) on the USA.

[Anonymous No.2601245]

>>2601242
Nah the Genesis outsold the SNES in the US despite SoA being ordered to dump it by SoJ when it was still selling like hotcakes.

[Anonymous No.2601264]

>>2598931
>poor
Yes. Sega was practically broke by the time they squeezed this turd out.

[Anonymous No.2601271]

>>2601264
I bet you think the N64 is a good console

[Anonymous No.2601284]

>>2601271

>he bashes the Saturn, he must be a nintendo fanboy!

[Anonymous No.2601291]

>>2601271

>he bashes the Saturn, so I'll assume he is a nintendo fan and I'll try to bait him!

[Anonymous No.2601301]

>>2601291
That's a yes.

[Anonymous No.2601309]

>>2601301

I'm not even the other guy anon, I love my Saturn since I bought it back in '97

[Anonymous No.2601325]

>>2601242
>what do you exactly mean?
Well, the PS1's contemporary, the N64, has hardware support for a whole bunch of things that the PS1 doesn't, such as perspective-correct texture mapping, sub-pixel rendering, bilinear/trilinear filtering, z-buffer, mipmaps, anti-aliasing, and color combining.

Much in the same way, the PS2's contemporaries, Xbox and Gamecube, had hardware support for a bunch of things that the PS2 didn't, such anisotropic filtering, pixel shading, anti-aliasing, bump-mapping, etc.

You could do some of these things on PS2 only with expensive multi-passes.

>The Gamecube had many built in stuff like positional lights, and while it made easier to implement that, the performance took a hit per light added, o you could really do only one
A fixed hardware function that can operate on a single pass is always going to be tons more efficient than brute forcing things with multipasses. Yes, the PS2 did have more fill than the Gamecube, but not enough to bridge the gap.

[Anonymous No.2601354]

>>2601271
Nope. Also another turd
But I enjoy playing on both of them.

[Anonymous No.2601773]

>>2599061
What are some good playable JRPG's on the Saturn then?

[Anonymous No.2601785]

>>2601773
Panzer Saga
Shining Force III
Shining the Holy Ark
Magical Knight Rayearth
Albert Odyssey
Dragon Force

Just off the top of my head

Sucks that Phantasy Star Collection, Grandia, Lunar etc were all left in Japan.

[Anonymous No.2602113]

>>2599707
>>2599714
Tom Kalinske was undeservedly cocky when he was interviewed by Next Generation, despite the magazine calling them out on releasing multiple platforms at the same time.

He actually thought that the PlayStation would fail and Sony would stick to TVs, while Sega continued to be a console manufacturer, when it ended up being the other way around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ailjvz8rbQ0

[Anonymous No.2602271]

>>2602113
I don't understand the point of the vid because there's image scans of the same interview online.

[Anonymous No.2602321]

>>2602271
Post the rest.

[Anonymous No.2602893]

>>2602321
Will do later tonight.

[Anonymous No.2602906]

>>2602113
>it ended up being the other way around.
Sega makes TVs?!

[Anonymous No.2602916]

>>2602906
They make software for PlayStation and Nintendo platforms.

[Anonymous No.2602961]

>>2602321
1/5

[Anonymous No.2602964]

>>2602961
2/5 is my original post
>>2602271

3/5

[Anonymous No.2602968]

>>2602964
4/5

[Anonymous No.2602969]

>>2602968
5/5

[Anonymous No.2602974]

>>2602968
>But Sony has failed a few times with consumer products -- we all remember Beta -- and so we're all hoping that PlayStation turns out to be another Beta and that in a couple of years' time, together, we'll be able to tell people to play their Saturns on a Sony TV.
Ouch! That was completely far off. It's like Kalinske completely jinxed Sega's chance for success.

[Anonymous No.2602985]

Let be honest though. We're looking at this with 20+ years of hindsight. Nobody could had guess that Sony would do as well as they did.

[Anonymous No.2602993]

>>2602985
The PlayStation had moderate amount of support even before its launch. Hell, its early lineup shared multiplats with the Saturn.

[Anonymous No.2603001]

>>2602993
The only thing it had a launch that was really all that good was Ridge Racer. And the sales didn't really pick up till later.

[Anonymous No.2603036]

>>2603001
It had an okay lineup that showed off the system. Everyone bought Toshinden and Ridge Racer, which definitely were weaker than the Saturn's launch of Daytona, Virtua Fighter, and Panzer Dragoon. Either way, neither of them were hot items at first because they were expensive for a long time and people were satisfied with the huge SNES and Genesis libraries. I didn't pick up a Playstation until I went to college in 1997, when FF7 came out and the game releases were much more regular. The system was down to $199 then and pretty much everybody had one.

[Anonymous No.2603039]

>>2598931

No. It was fucking amazing for 2D games, shmups and fighting games.