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/vr/ - Retro Games

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2595614 No.2595614 [Reply] [Original]

So Live-A-Live.

It's a fun game, it was really ambitious for its time. But it had a lot of little problems that kept it from reaching the legacy Trigger obtained, even discounting that it never left Japan.

What things would you do to fix Live-A-Live?

>> No.2595619

>>2595614
Make how the turn system works a bit more obvious.

>> No.2595628
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2595628

I'd take out some of the gimmicky bits in some of the stages. The only one I remember is the trap hunt in the cowboy level, but I know there are more.

Other than that, maybe a more diverse range of timelines. I think two feudal Asian periods and two future periods may have been laying it on a bit thick.

>> No.2595634

I think they were trying to make a videogame version of Tezuka's manga Phoenix, in spirit and theme.

The problem is Phoenix gave big, equal opportunity to every time period and section, each of them getting their own book. Live-A-Live has some sections that are really big and involved (Oboro), with others that almost feel like filler due to their short length (Sundown, Masaru). I understand that a chapter based on fighting games obviously wouldn't be very long, but even then it almost feels like it was cut short.

>> No.2595638

>>2595628
>two future periods
There was only one though, Cube's time.

Akira's is based almost entirely on 1970s-1980s tokusatsu.

>> No.2595718

More needs to be added to the story. The ending was underwhelming. It doesn't really resolve the plot. Oersted caused all the problems but who created the system which enabled him to enact his vengeance upon humanity?

>> No.2595728

>>2595718
>Oersted caused all the problems but who created the system which enabled him to enact his vengeance upon humanity

Narrative-wise, it seemed like his hate was just so powerful that he suddenly obtained the power to be a demon king and transcend time. Maybe it's a reference to something in Japanese.

>> No.2595963

>>2595634

Phoenix...

Better a game, tv or a movie series?

>> No.2595971

>>2595963
None. Changing the medium would necessarily change a lot of things about the presentation and content used to express the message.

I imagine it would work best as a series of movies at least an hour or more if it were to be translated to any other medium.

>> No.2595975

>>2595971

Not saying it could be done either. He died before it could be completed.

>> No.2595993

>>2595975
anon don't you see

this life we're living now, it already IS the last chapter

>> No.2596240

>>2595975

We tried it once before, with one of the best anime directors out there behind it.

It was OK at best.

>> No.2596295

>don't resort to random encounters at the end of the game

It was really disappointing how it became standard fare JRPG slogging through random encounters after not having any of them in the game up until that point.

>less obscure shit

Not actually a huge deal as I recall, but in Akira's chapter there was a decent amount of "go everywhere and talk to everyone" that sticks out in my mind.

I guess Oboro's chapter could stand to be redesigned a bit, but aside from that, those are the only problems with the game I can think of. It's still an incredible game that I don't think ever got the respect it deserved.

>> No.2596356

>>2596295
>but in Akira's chapter there was a decent amount of "go everywhere and talk to everyone" that sticks out in my mind.
And maybe get rid of the staircase. You know the one. The one you have to go up and down like 4 times in a row.

>> No.2597039

i'd fix myself by getting good. in fact i think i'll try this one again.

>> No.2597061

>>2595728
I always figured that Demon King Odio had transferred power to Straybow, but didn't complete the transformation until Oersted came around, serving as a superior host of hatred.
Straybow may have been kind of a dick, but he had his reasons, cruel as they may seem with an execution that's rather poorly thought-out. He wasn't entirely consumed by hate so much as other emotions, feelings, and sensations.

Oersted gave himself to hate and nothing else, because in his mind, he felt he had nothing else but hate (and demons) left. Should you kill all the Main Characters, you even see him walk about in the lifeless world. It's rather wistful and him having done all that, there's almost a sensation of regret about the scene. He's got nothing left past that hate, since he let it all out across time. He's got nowhere to go and nobody to go to. One could say that he's got nobody left to hate but himself, but the song that plays is his chapter theme, making it seem like he doesn't hate himself for all that he's done. I'm guessing that he can't bring himself to end himself (Armageddon aside), but doesn't know what to do anymore, since there is pretty much is nothing for him to do anymore.

You could see small aspects of Oersted in Hash, but Hash at least lived as a hermit so he wouldn't have anybody bothered by him or have anybody else bother him. I mean, hell, Hash had nothing else to really live for but the people, but knew that those people shunned him and disliked him. However, he still kept living. It's not really entirely justified in-game, but I feel like the reason he bothered living is that if the people eventually dropped their fears and accepted him again or, at least, if he was ever to be needed by them again, he'd be there.

I know I'm likely looking too deep into this, but that's just how I felt when playing the game.

>> No.2597065

>>2595993
NottoDissuShittoAgen.jpg

>> No.2597069

>>2595614
Make Akira's techs not shit.
Make Masaru's ultimate not take so goddamn long.
Nerf Sundown's damage range to still be high, but not so goddamn absurdly high.

>> No.2597326

>>2597069
>Make Akira's techs not shit.

Agreed, basically his punch is all that's good, and the only reason to use him in the final dungeon at all is for his chapter.

>Make Masaru's ultimate not take so goddamn long.

I wouldn't care as much if it was a better move.

>Nerf Sundown's damage range to still be high, but not so goddamn absurdly high.

Eh, I'm ok with his ultimate doing 999, but you're right about his other moves.

>> No.2597332

>>2597326
err other way around I mean. Only reason to use him in the final chapter is for his dungeon.

>> No.2597346

>>2597326
I think Akira had healing techs, though not as good as Cube, and all his other psychic abilities had huge AoE and inflicted status effects.

This was defintely not useless, it was actually crazy useful in lots of situations, since even the "common" fights in the last chapter could be pretty devastating.

>> No.2597905

>>2597346
Akira's psychic abilities are pretty cool. "Illusions that your mind makes real" is an unusual power for the hero to have.

>> No.2598074

>>2597061
My view is that the Demon King Odio was just a position given to suitable candidates by a non-sentient and artificially intelligent apparatus that was created by some unknown entity (demon or alien) that no longer resided in the human world. The person who acquires Odio's identity and power maintains freedom to think and act anyway he wished but has to complete the task of conquering all the time periods of humanity represented by the demon statues. If the candidate fails in his task, he's given the option to destroy everything. The apparatus chose hate-filled people to be hosts not for the sake of hate but because hate is the emotion that leads to the greatest destruction in humanity. Even if Oersted failed, he at least stalled the progress of humanity for a time and paved way for another candidate to take his place. Thus, regardless of what Oersted did, he accomplished his mission. The bad ending was probably the canonical one since the demon mountain wasn't destroyed.

>> No.2598237

>>2596240

With their hands tied behind their back because of bullshit.

>> No.2598343

>>2597326
>I wouldn't care as much if it was a better move.
It's a nice counter, but it can get canceled way too easily, which is why I say, don't have it take so long.
>>2597346
Fuckton of good that does in the last battle.

Cube was baller though, especially if you brought some of Taro the turtle's accessories from Akira's chapter to give him more versatility.

>> No.2599158

>>2598074

I think it's much less complex than that and was just what the game kept hammering in furing Oersted's and the final chapter

"Anyone can become a King of Demons. As long as hatred still exists, in any world, in any time."

I don't think there's much more to it than the game taking the aesop of "don't let hatred consume you or you'll become a monster" and making it physically manifest.

>> No.2599168

>>2595614
Are the characters on the cover drawn by different authors? The last guy on the right looks drawn by Gosho Aoyama, the author of Detective Conan.

>> No.2599173
File: 2.95 MB, 854x480, m watching anything with his significant other.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2599173

>>2599168

Yes, every chapter had a different manga do the character designs.

The second-to-left is by Kazuhiko Shimamoto, the mangaka of Blazing Transfer Student/Skullman reboot and is who the main character of Blue Blazes is based on since it's his (exaggerated) college years.

>> No.2599178

>>2599173
That is pretty damn rad.

>> No.2599180

>>2599173
different mangaka, I meant.

>> No.2599307

>>2595718
>who enabled him to enact his vengeance

So you wanted some "le final act secret villain puppet-mastering behind the scenes who comes out of nowhere" like Zemus or Necron?

>> No.2599309

>>2599307
Not him, but Necron thematically is forshadowed the entire game. He is the embodiment of death in a game whose primary theme is coming to terms with one's own mortality.

>> No.2600165

>>2596356
You only have to go down it once, and then up. Source: I played Akira's chapter this morning.

>> No.2600884

>>2600165

Always felt like more to me.

Either way, Akira's chapter always felt kinda tedious. You basically have to go around reading the minds of EVERYONE until you find the right person.

>> No.2600905

>>2598343
the last battle is cake anyway, it's about equipping that one set of gear that blocks status ailments more than it is about anything else.

>> No.2600920

>>2600884
Well, it definitely isn't always obvious what you need to do (i.e., whose mind you need to read). I'll give you that. It's still a short, fun chapter though.

>> No.2600929

>>2600920

I didn't mind it in Oboro's chapter, because that was the point. His chapter is a puzzle.

Admittedly one you probably need a guide to figure out.

>> No.2603994

>>2595634
>Sunset and Ryu

They're parodies of a shooter game and a fighting game. Course tis' short!

>>2595628
Based on genres, not time periods you fool! And the kung fu chapter wasn't feudal. During that time period, china was changing from an empire into a young republic split apart by warlords and muh gommunist! Read it up you fuck tarts!

>> No.2604003

>>2599173
>>2599178
>Autism MAX Hearto!
Autism.

>> No.2604008

>>2603994
>Based on genres, not time periods you fool!

Story genres/film genres (some being explicitly based on movies) I get, but some of them I don't know what game genre they would be.

>Caveman: ???
>Space: Survival Horror, a genre that barely existed at the time
>Cowboy: Shooter
>Future: ???
>Wrestler: Fighting
>Kung Fu: ???
>Ninja: Stealth
>Knight: Classic RPG

>> No.2604321

>>2603994
>Based on genres, not time periods
Correct. I agree, anyway.

>the kung fu chapter wasn't feudal. During that time period, china was changing from an empire into a young republic
Kung-fu has existed in China for thousands of years, and although many of the kung-fu movies you are familiar with are indeed set in the late 19th or early 20th centuries, that chapter isn't. It is clearly intended to be ancient China. The style of the buildings, style of dress, etc., are not consistent with revolutionary China. The random encounter enemies in that chapter are tigers, which are extinct in modern China.

I suppose it's a bit misleading, because the "genre" that Chapter is based on is definitely the popular kung-fu movie genre, complete with the "fight a ladder of the Bad Guy's underlings" trope, and like I said many of those are set in contemporary times.

>> No.2604328

>>2604321

Not him, but it probably took place during the 17th century, since NPCs mention a plague, and a big one was rolling through China around 1641.

>> No.2604348

>>2604008
>Future: ???
Mecha anime and manga! It's even called the "mecha" chapter on the title screen! Specifically the "super robot" Mecha genre, which would have been seen as nostalgic and perhaps even childish in 1994, a time when "real robot" mecha was dominant.

>Kung Fu: ???
Kung-fu movies of course! See my post above. I would say that this is even one of the most recognizable "references" in the game for Westerners, because of the universal popularity of kung-fu movies.

>Space: Survival Horror, a genre that barely existed at the time
2001: A Space Odyssey had existed for quite a long time indeed at that point, and was probably the inspiration for this chapter. Alternatively, there are sci-fi stories and movies with "survival" themes dating back a very long way. I can think of examples from the Eastern Block (Ikarie XB-1, Solaris, and more), and there are probably plenty of Western examples or examples that Japanese scenario writers would have been familiar with too.

>Caveman: ???
I have no idea either.

>> No.2604354

>>2604348

But those aren't game genres though.

>> No.2604357

>>2604348
>I have no idea either.
Hanna-Barbera cartoons. Gori even does the Muttley laugh

>> No.2604360

>>2604348
>2001: A Space Odyssey had existed for quite a long time indeed at that point, and was probably the inspiration for this chapter.

Except you know, for the fact that the plot of Cube's chapter is just straight up Alien.

>> No.2604365

>>2604354
Game genres? Who said anything about game genres? I was thinking film genres, and thinking more about it I see that there is actually quite a mix of film, TV, video game genres, etc.

>>2604357
Makes perfect sense.

>>2604360
I forgot Alien was so old! But you're right, that's it. I would still say 2001 is pretty much the inspiration for all "Hollywood" sci-fi that came after it, though, including Alien.

>> No.2604368

>>2604365
>Game genres? Who said anything about game genres?

here >>2603994
>They're parodies of a shooter game and a fighting game

>> No.2604383

>>2604368
Why does it have to be limited to game genres though? It seems to make reference to a lot of things.

>> No.2604390

>>2604383

It doesn't, but that poster is the one who brought it up so I merely replied to it with >>2604008 where I specifically talked anout game genres.

>> No.2604393

>>2604390
Ok. Well, I think we can fill in the blanks by saying that each of the chapters seems to be homage to a particular popular genre of video game, movie, or TV show.

>> No.2604439

>>2604008
>>2604348

There were plenty of movies involving dinosaurs made prior that game. One or more more of those could've inspired the caveman chapter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dinosaur_films

>> No.2604525

>>2604439
The lack of dialog and its sense of humor made it feel more like a cartoon aimed at young kids.

>> No.2604652

>remove robot chapter or make it more interesting for multiple playthroughs
>actually attempt to balance the combat and make it so that half the attacks aren't useless
>remove the randomness from the equipment making in the Mecha chapter
>make it so that killing everyone in the ninja chapter has a reward
>make caveman chapter more fun

Also it is weird how the game avoids random encounters until the last part, which has them suddenly.

>> No.2604671

>>2604652
>make it so that killing everyone in the ninja chapter has a reward
I know where you're coming from, especially because the game sort of encourages you to do it ("can he kill 100 people?" or something), but I think that chapter is supposed to be "realistic" and even have a "moral." That's why they included the "abandon mission" bad end and give you so many choices about who to kill, how to reach the objective, etc. in the first place. Maybe the idea of "mercy" being rewarded, while killing everyone gets you nothing but the knowledge that you killed everyone, is somehow part of that.

>> No.2604675

>>2604652
>make it so that killing everyone in the ninja chapter has a reward

It does. It gives you the 3rd best katana.

2nd best is killing no one, and 1st is from beating probably the hardest optional boss in the game.

>> No.2604684

>>2604652
>remove robot chapter or make it more interesting for multiple playthroughs

Agreed

>actually attempt to balance the combat and make it so that half the attacks aren't useless

Agreed, half the characters too. The Masaru/Cube/Sundown/Oboro team in the final chapter is pretty much unbeatable and doesn't give a reason to use anyone else.

>remove the randomness from the equipment making in the Mecha chapter

It was random?

>make it so that killing everyone in the ninja chapter has a reward

see >>2604675

>make caveman chapter more fun

I wouldn't say "more fun", I'd just say make it so it's easier to find encounters, if you have to do the tracking stuff.

>Also it is weird how the game avoids random encounters until the last part, which has them suddenly.

It's a classic rpg, the other chapters aren't. Classic rpgs have random encounters.

>> No.2606679

>>2604328
Plagues happened all the time in china for various reason. This is a huge country plagued(pun fully intended) by war and various natural disasters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_conquest_of_the_Ming

17th Century would be the start of the Qing Dynasty when Han men were forced to wear pigtails just like the Machurian. That wouldn't fit at all?

>>2604321
Buildings last for a very long time. Especially some of the more well-built ones made during the golden ages of chinese civilisation(han and tang dynasty). Though the style of dress varied a LOT during ancient china, and those clothes don't look very ancient at all? Also most ancient chinese men wore their hair long, the men in the game did not. Cutting their hair short wasn't a thing until the west and Xtianity invaded. Also most men cut off their LONG pigtails when they revolted against the Qing, and after that most men wore their hair short. That's a detail that's impossible to ignore!

Reference on wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queue_%28hairstyle%29#Manchu_queue

And this is roughly what chineses wore during the height of chinese kung fu(Ming Dynasty).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanfu

>> No.2606820

>>2604525
For me, it was the most thought-provoking chapter. Since there's no narrative and the characters used only body language, noises, and pictures to communicate, I had to guess what was going on. There was a sense of mystery, an effect that no other chapter achieved, except for the one where you control a robot. While I was playing this chapter, which was the first one I played, my imagination went wild. But, after finishing the pentultimate chapter, all the feeling of mystery that I had since playing the first chapter was gone.

>> No.2606841

>>2604684
>It's a classic rpg, the other chapters aren't. Classic rpgs have random encounters.

Classic rpgs have non-random battles too. JRPGs have much higher random encounter rates.

>> No.2607016

>>2606841

Well it was clearly trying to be something like DQ/FF.

>> No.2607043

>>2606841
jayperguers are a meme, no such thing exists

>> No.2607227

>>2607043
There are pretty clear stylistic and gameplay differences between JRPGs and so-called "western-style" rpgs, anon. Don't be dense.

>> No.2607413

>>2606820
art imitates life