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/vr/ - Retro Games


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2555717 No.2555717 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

What is even the point of 5th generation console wars? Each of the three main consoles during that generation were fairly genre specialized.

Saturn for 2D games (all genres) and arcade ports

PlayStation for RPGs, sports other than wrestling, vehicle combat games, non-open world platformers, and an all-genre-rounder otherwise.

N64 for open-world platform games, FPS, wrestling, and multiplayer games.

>> No.2555723

You know, that's actually a pretty good point. Except the PS1 had a little of everything.

>> No.2555737

>>2555717
PS1 is pretty superior sales wise, but Saturn won over in Japan, and the N64...
was the n64

>> No.2555738

I was a 5th gen idort back then and I still prefer Saturn and N64 over the PS.
I still loved the PS, great catalogue, lots of games, but my favorites are on SS and N64.

Anyway

>What is even the point of 5th generation console wars?

Trolling, baiting and most of all, they serve to canalize childhood traumas and lack of love.

>> No.2555741

>>2555738
This, I prefer Saturn over the rest of them

>> No.2555748

>>2555723 here, although I said that I still agree the N64 and Saturn did their specialty genres better than the ps1.

>> No.2555749
File: 1.57 MB, 956x4916, PS1 library.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2555749

>>2555717
>PlayStation for RPGs, sports other than wrestling, vehicle combat games, non-open world platformers, and an all-genre-rounder otherwise.

yeah, sure

>> No.2555758

There really weren't many. Diehard Sega and Nintendo fans bought their systems. Playstation came out of nowhere like a wolf and plucked up market share. The competition was so devastated, the Dreamcast and Gamecube were secondary consoles before they even came out. Nobody in their right mind only owned those and not a PS2 as well.

>> No.2555763

>>2555717
Many people could only afford one console and wanted to justify their purchase. Especially when they picked N64 or especially Saturn, then realized that all the games were on PSX.

Besides, PSX had 2D games, non sega arcade ports, "open world" platform games, FPS, wrestling and MP games too. Sure, maybe not all 10/10 GOAT stuff all around, but neither of the other consoles could honestly claim that either. N64 has THREE platformers that were worth owning, and the OSX had what? 12? And a lot of the 2D games from Saturn made it onto the PSX as well.

On top of that, PSX also had more genres in general, more games of each genre and the only real complaint anyone ever had against it is "shovelware". Well, the other 2 options had shovelware as well. They also had fewer games in general, so there was less shovelware. I'd rather have more options available to me, even if I have to avoid the obviously shitty shovelware games that only morons plaid anyway.

So in a way you're right OP. The 5th gen console wars WERE pointless. Because everyone who didn't choose PSX was a massive faggot and a delusional child on top of it.

>> No.2555772

>>2555737
The Saturn didn't win jack shit in Japland, or else Sega would have lived and not ditched the hardware so fucking soon. You can tell yourself whatever you want, but you're still wrong.

And the N64 is the N64. OK, so what? Are you making light of the WHOPPING 25 or so decent games the thing had, or the fact that fanbois will endlessly masturbate over the best 5 of those games?

It was a massive disapointment in general and added almost nothing to that gen, aside from Zelda's battle system. WOW...

>> No.2555773

>>2555758
>>2555763
>>2555749

Here come the Sony boys.

>> No.2555775

>>2555749
>that total lack of games in racing/sports

>> No.2555780
File: 58 KB, 640x400, win95-1-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2555780

>>2555763
You're right, 5th gen console wars WERE pointless. I never even missed the fact that I skipped that gen.

I've never heard a console war anywhere but the internet though, because my friends and I were all actual video game fans who played video games. We all played more N64 than PSX though, because the N64 is a great party system, the PSX wasn't.

>> No.2555783

>>2555780

I was gonna say this. I was an idort back then, had a PS1 and enjoyed it, but I can imagine it was perfectly possible to survive the 5th gen without a PS. Just get either a N64 and a Saturn coupled with a PC and you were set.

In fact, I'd say PC and N64 was the best combo (N64 due to all the multiplayer shit on it)

>> No.2555792

>>2555775
good

>> No.2555803

>>2555763
PS1 did have a lot of diverse and good quality stuff on it. But if you wanted the absolute most influential games that set the stage for 6th generation, you had to also have an N64.

No Jak and Daxter without Banjo-Kazooie.
No GTAIII without Body Harvest, etc.

>> No.2555804

I'm not gonna lie, I miss the Sega-Nintendo days.

I appreciate the PlayStation for bringing a lot of great 3rd party games, but I dislike the kind of people that identify themselves (consciously or not) as "sony fans"

>> No.2555815

>>2555775
yeah, no ridge racer type 4, no wipeout xl, no running wild, no bomberman fantasy race FUCK YOU I LOVE BOMBERMAN FANTASY RACE

>> No.2555819

>>2555803
more like no gta 3 without gta 2
srsly tho I feel bad hitting on n64 kids I rather let you win

>> No.2555829

>>2555803
Jak and daxter was a spiritual successor to Crash Bandicoot and GTAIII was a literal sequel to GTA2...

Also you name a small handful of N64 games that played a small role in inspiring PS2 games, but then overlook all the other PS2 games NOT directly influenced by the N64 at all.

Like, what N64 games inspired FFX, MGS2, Resident Evil 4 (yes, gamecube, but still), Tekken Tag Tournament, Gran Turismo 3, DMC, Onimusha, and so on and so forth.
The answers are: FFIX, MGS1, Resident Evil 3 and Dino Crisis 2, Tekken 3, Gran Turismo 2, Resident Evil again, Resident Evil AGAIN and so on...

You can generalize all you want, but the PSX had a larger impact on the industry, had more good games and brought more new IPs to us than the N64 did.

OK, maybe the N64's first party lineup was phat, and maybe they influenced a few big name games, but the PSX fucking KILLED it.

Deal with it drone

>> No.2555835

>>2555804
Because they backed the winner and you didn't? Or because they bring up valid arguments in "what console was better" debates that make you look and feel like a dumbass?

I'm genuinely curious.

>> No.2555838 [DELETED] 

>>2555772
"While Saturn systems were being outsold by PlayStation systems in Japan in 1995-1997"
-http://www.segaretro.org/Sega_Saturn

Sure bud, I like the ps1 and all but don't surpress the facts jesus.

>> No.2555840
File: 14 KB, 335x385, l2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2555840

>>2555835
>backed the winner

Not him, but you might want to consider how dumb you sound.

>> No.2555841

>>2555829
>The answers are: FFIX, MGS1, Resident Evil 3 and Dino Crisis 2, Tekken 3, Gran Turismo 2, Resident Evil again, Resident Evil AGAIN and so on...
You know, that's a really obtuse way at looking at things. The older Resident Evil games inspiring Resident Evil 4? Sure, only if you look at these things on the surface.

>> No.2555843

>>2555829

I don't even know what Jak and daxter is, must be some 6th gen thing, but Body Harvest really was a sort of proto-GTAIII in the sense that it was Rockstar's first attempt at an open world game.

Also, for someone who calls other people "drone", you sound like a huge Sonydrone yourself.
FFX is not a game you should cite as some important piece of gaming, by the way. Its only purpose nowdays is so that we can laugh at the cringe that it is.

>> No.2555848

>>2555772
Sold more software in Japan at the time, therefore they did win 'jackshit', you must be angry.

>> No.2555849

>>2555835

Huh? winner? what are you talking about?

Since I smell you are one of those Sony fans I was talking about and you bit my bait, I'll respond you: I had all home Sony systems, so I kind of "backed the winner", speaking in your own drone language. I still dislike sony fans though.

>> No.2555857

>>2555829
>>2555772
>>2555763
All of this mad.

>> No.2555861
File: 99 KB, 320x240, 370269-resident-evil-survivor-playstation-screenshot-cockroaches.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2555861

完全な力でゴキブリ

>> No.2555865

>>2555861
>完全な力でゴキブリ
kek

>> No.2555879

>>2555849
I don't know how anyone could consider themselves a "sony fan". How can anyone be a "fan" of a soulless japanese mega-corp? I also own a few of their systems and they are perfectly fine, but Sony isn't the one putting out all the great games I play on them.

>> No.2555885

>>2555879
in a sense sony shaped a personality for the console by means of marketing, publishing deals, etc. They helped push stuff like resident evil, final fantasy 7, etc

>> No.2555887

>>2555879
But they did release games. You could legitimately be a fan of their games. Or their hardware.

>> No.2555891

>>2555879

Brand loyalty exists, and the worst thing is that companies know this and use it, reinforcing it through their marketing.

The fact we have people here who argue stuff like "PS1 had all genres, you didn't need the other consoles", or "sony were the winners" give you an idea of how brand loyalism works. They might not even be 100% conscious that they are being fanatics of a corporation, but they are.

>> No.2555895

>>2555891
ehh, the ps1 did have all genres. spyro is an open world collectathon like banjo, medal of honor and the world is not enough are shooters, and the ps1 got a (bad) port of kof98, sfa3, exclusive shootem'ups, etc

>> No.2555901

>>2555895

Yeah but one thing is to talk about all the games and genres PS1 had. Which is fantastic and all.
Another thing is to say "lol N64 and Saturn suckzzz, PS1 wins baby".

>> No.2555906

>>2555901
honestly the N64 kiddies are just as guilty about that.

>> No.2555908
File: 252 KB, 1920x1280, IMG_8434.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2555908

>>2555773
Nope

>> No.2555909

>>2555906
>guilty of doing that
Fix. I'm not good with words.

>> No.2555910

>>2555906

All I'm seeing in this thread is sony fans shitting on the Saturn and N64, so far I haven't seen any N64 "kiddie" shittalking the PS1... so I'm not following your logic. Maybe your brand loyalist mind makes up an imaginary "N64 kiddy" boogieman of sorts?

>> No.2555918

>>2555717
Because the Genesis/SNES era weren't genre specialized, right?

Besides the PS1 isn't limited on genres, you can play fucking everything on it.

>> No.2555919

>>2555910
dude you literally just said the ps1 had no open world platformers.

>> No.2555921

>>2555918
>tfw you can't play the best Castlevania game on PS1

>> No.2555925

>>2555919

I didn't, you schizo freak.

>> No.2555927

>>2555879
I get what you're saying, but Namco basically adopted the system and made it their own. That was the main reason I bought a PS1 along with my Saturn.

>> No.2555928

>>2555717
Revolutionary and paved the way for your Call of Duty games OP

>> No.2555929

>>2555921
Best Castlevania is on the NES so duh, however SOTN is still great and the best metroid-style Castlevania.

>> No.2555930

>>2555925
that's correct you fucking didn't. I apologize. We should learn to tolerate and respect each other kum ba yah

>> No.2555932

>>2555929
I meant the Saturn version of Symphony of the Night. You get more content including richter, and Maria with out doing the extra stuff.

I agree with that though best castlevania is on the nes

>> No.2556021
File: 69 KB, 480x360, 243424379_53aa388133.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556021

There is no point in 5th or 6th generation console wars because the results are obvious.

>> No.2556034
File: 1.53 MB, 3264x2448, saturn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556034

>>2556021
Correct, the saturn

>> No.2556036
File: 199 KB, 1920x1080, ゴキブリ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556036

>>2556021
ゴキブリのような黒w

>> No.2556038

>>2556036
>>2555861

dude who are you, cause you are fucking hilarious

>> No.2556053

>>2556034
>dual CPUs that most devs almost committed suicide over
>pathetic library

lol

>> No.2556057
File: 2.53 MB, 3509x2632, n64-inside.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556057

>>2556021
>>2556034
Ignore these, I posted the wrong image

>> No.2556061

>>2555717
Totally agree other than buying the N64 for any reason.

>> No.2556065
File: 43 KB, 402x329, 1382307764555.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556065

>>2556057

>> No.2556067
File: 400 KB, 920x920, Xbox Exclusives.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556067

>>2556021
Nigger, please. Everyone knows Xbox was the real winner of the 6th gen.
>best graphics
>best online support
>best versions of 3rd party games
>standard 8GB HDD
>awesome exclusives

The only thing it lacked was JRPGs.

>> No.2556068

>>2556034
>>2556021
Correct
>>2556057
Wrong

>> No.2556084

>>2556061

>buying the N64 for any reason.

back then: multiplayer
nowdays: emulation for it is shit

>> No.2556094

>>2556053

> Pathetic Library

Nigga.

>> No.2556104

>>2556036
>>2555861
explain this epic meme pls

>> No.2556107
File: 184 KB, 768x1152, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556107

>>2555717

Why? Because of Sony fans.

That's why.

>> No.2556114

>>2556107
i met an xbox fan once, he was nothing like that

>> No.2556120

The N64 was for kids.
The PlayStation was for teenagers
The Saturn was for adults.

>> No.2556129

>>2556120
This, Steam Hearts example A.

>> No.2556130

>>2556120

what kind of adult would enjoy arcade games and japanese shmups?
I had a Saturn as a kid and loved it. NiGHTS was so dreamy.

My older brother and his friends who were 18 or 19 at the time, used the N64. Mostly Goldeneye and sports/racing on 4 players.

PSX was the poor kid's console

>> No.2556148

>>2556130
Arcade games were generally attractive to adults because you could get in a game or two between lunch breaks. They were also great for bars. The first arcade game I ever played was a cocktail table because I was too short.

>> No.2556153

>>2556130
>PSX was the poor kid's console
So, for once poor kids get the best console?

>> No.2556154

>>2556130
the kind that's unemployed

>> No.2556618

>>2555773
Grew up with an N64, and later a PS1+PS2, and while the N64 had it's set of gems, it's library was limited, and the controllers were made out of rape.

The Playstation had much more interesting titles and a vastly superior controller.
I never had a Gamecube, regrettably, only once touched a Dreamcast and I never saw a Saturn ever, so I can't speak for those.

I wouldn't exactly call myself a fan of Sony, but their systems have in my experience felt better to me.

>> No.2556629

>>2555929
Best Castlevania (at least pre-Metroidvania), is Super Castlevania, and the superb movement and controls are a big contributor to that. Why they went back on that for Dracula X I will never understand.

>> No.2556659

>>2556067

Wow look at all these games! Let's see we've got... oh, a pile of shit! That's right because the Xbox only had one decent game.

Also: not retro. Saged, reported, downvoted, disliked, and unsubscribed.

>> No.2556665

>console war shit

Yep, /vr/ is now officially /v/.

>> No.2556679

Wich one is the best?
Amiga CD32
Casio Loopy
FM Towns Marty
PC-FX
Apple Bandai Pippin
Playdia
3DO Interactive Multiplayer
Atari Jaguar

>> No.2556721

>>2556034
Dude I love Saturn (hate N64 with a bannable passion) but Sony made Nintendo and Sega both look like amateur children right out of the gate.

Sony toed the 3D revolution inextricably into corporate strategy for good or for ill. I think we benefited immensely in the 5th gen with inexpensive, ambitious games and then in the 6th gen it really hit is stride and Microsoft imitated it from a Western perspective, and less successfully.

Unfortunately we now know the direction that those correlations were patiently steering the industry but that's no reason we can't appreciate the golden years - and now that PC gaming is finally coming into its own from hardware cost as well as installed user base perspectives maybe things will be okay -assuming the political scene doesn't ruin indie gaming.

>> No.2556724

>>2556679
That is a very weird list of consoles to compare but the answer is probably Amiga just buy virtue of it running regular Amiga games with a little fuckery in addition to its dedicated library.

>> No.2556726

>>2556721
>with inexpensive ambitious games
I love the Saturn too, but that guy was being a douche, but I totally agree.

Sony won, but I love me my saturn.

>> No.2556743

>>2556721
>Sony made Nintendo and Sega both look like amateur children right out of the gate
They kind of were. Nintendo were extremely stubborn, refusing to budge from cartridges.

And SEGA's ineptitude is well documented. The Saturn is possibly my favorite system of all time, but just look at what SEGA's arcade teams were doing at the time. How could SEGA possibly not think that 3D was the immediate future? They really should have gone with the console design that SEGA of America suggested.

>> No.2556764

>>2556743
>They really should have gone with the console design that SEGA of America suggested.
That was basically the N64 hardware with CD. Pretty neat.

>> No.2556773

>>2556743
Carts were a perfectly effective means of copy protection, which is what Nintendo wanted. The added bonus of near instant load times and durability are just icing.

The Playstation already took off before the N64 was even out.

>> No.2556778

>>2555772
>>2555848
The Saturn was ahead of the Playstation in sales for a period of one or two years, total.

Playstation was winning at every other time, plus it was on market for over twice as long.

>> No.2556784

>>2556743
>How could SEGA possibly not think that 3D was the immediate future?

Because they had huge hateboners for Nintendo, and all of their consoles were knee-jerk reactions against the rest of the market. The Saturn was literally a SNES +1.

>> No.2556790

>>2556773
Carts were un-affordable for many developers, this resulted in fewer games being produced for N64, which meant serious genre gaps of games available for the console. Less variety in games means less catering for customer tastes.

The whole N64 project was literally kept afloat by Nintendo, Rare, and a few third-party diehards like Factor 5 (who were bankrolled by George Lucas, so could afford cartridges).

>> No.2556796

>>2555717
If I had to choose a favorite, it would probably be the PS1. Not only because of the more varied library in comparison to the other two (especially for someone who doesn't like JRPGs that much), but because of the whole thing about it being easy to develop for, which Sony took an advantage with by releasing things like the Net Yaroze and such. I played some of the games developed with that program and found the most fun of them all (so far) being Terra Incognita.

>> No.2556816

>all this fanboy rage

I don't understand the point of choosing one and only one brand to stick with while cursing all the rest. They're just video games Christ's sake. Why can't I enjoy them all? I understand having favorites, but why shit on the others as well? I don't think there's any one (major) console that didn't have at least a few fun games exclusive to it. Shit, I own 12 fucking consoles and I find that they all have their own unique charm.

>> No.2556832

>>2555763
>Because everyone who didn't choose PSX was a massive faggot and a delusional child on top of it.
Back then i chose saturn specifically for the arcade perfect ports of my fav games like street fighter alpha 2 so i made the right choice you stupid cunt.

>> No.2556835

>>2555932
Saturn version does have a lower frame rate though.

>> No.2556962
File: 290 KB, 500x570, sick jacket bro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2556962

>>2555804
>I'm not gonna lie, I miss the Sega-Nintendo days.
Same... Even though they were at each others necks business wise I feel like they benefited off of it in some levels because they were so different from one another. Nintendo setting the standard and Sega being experimental (even if it was to a fault).

>> No.2556997

>>2555717
It's true
But you can't argue with sonyggers. These people will just claim all games that aren't on ps1 are shit
And they're still the same today. It's so sad people so close minded are the majority of this medium

>> No.2557002

>>2555895
Dude if you start listing shit games then we can claim every system has every genre.
The ps1 was definitely weaker than competition for 2D arcade games, FPS, 3D platformers and racing games

>> No.2557065

>>2557002
>2D arcade games
True, only the Saturn was perfect for arcade ports.

>FPS
I didn't think the N64 did this well either. The PC is the only way to truly enjoy these types of games for me.

>3D Platformers
While I had a ton of fun with Mario 64 adn flexible controls, I still prefer Spyro and Crash to Rare's output. Also the PS1 had Jumping Flash and Ape Escape which was enough to make me prefer its 3D platformer fill in my subjective opinion.

>racing games
F-Zero X And Star Wars Episode 1 Racer were great, but were also pretty much the only racing games that had any real merit on the N64. Ridge Racer, Crash Team Racing, Wipeout, and Gran Turismo for the PS1 and even Daytona on the Saturn made me prefer both over the N64 in that aspect.

>> No.2557115
File: 87 KB, 640x469, Offroad_Challenge_n64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2557115

>>2557065

N64 had a lot of racing games, lots of arcade ports from Midway, the Rush series, etc.

Props for mentioning Jumping Flash though, most sony fans are very closed in what they knew as kids (crash, spyro and other western stuff), JF is IMO the actual proper PS1 flagship 3D platformer, so sad to see people forgetting it day after day to the point it's almost an "obscure" game today (at least compared to crash and the others that came later).

>>2556997
They're fanatics so they won't accept anything to be "better" than their own childhood nostalgia system. PS1 has more of everything, but not always it is better. Especially when people claim that the PS1 has a big catalogue, yet everytime they talk about the same games (spyro, crash, ff7), it's not too different than "n64 kiddies" with their mario and zelda, or saturn fans with, I dunno, some expensive japanese imports.

At any rate, if you for some reason aren't playing all 3 consoles, you're definitely missing on good stuff.

>> No.2557117

>>2557065
>I didn't think the N64 did this well either. The PC is the only way to truly enjoy these types of games for me.

Doesn't change the fact the N64 had much better FPS and even TPS. Operation Winback, Jet Force Gemini, Shadowman or Conker were very impressive for this era. It's a shame the ps1 was so popular because a game like Armorines (made by the Turok guys) could have been so good if it wasn't limited by its ps1 development

>I still prefer Spyro and Crash to Rare's output

That's your opinion but the Rare games were objectively much bigger and varied in their gameplay than Crash or Spyro. I don't see the appeal of Jumping Flash. Felt like playing a platformer version of the Starfox from the Snes. Ape Escape is a very good game but suffers of a weird camera

>F-Zero X And Star Wars Episode 1 Racer were great, but were also pretty much the only racing games that had any real merit on the N64. Ridge Racer, Crash Team Racing, Wipeout, and Gran Turismo for the PS1 and even Daytona on the Saturn made me prefer both over the N64 in that aspect.

You can just tell how N64 racing games were much better when it had also Wipeout or Ridge Racer but people didn't care about them because there were much better option. Outside of FZeroX or Star Wars, there were Mario Kart 64, DKR, WaveRace, 1080°, F-1 World Grand Prix (best F1 games of this gen), Vigilante 8 (much better than Twisted Metal and better than the ps1 version), Extreme-G, Excitebike 64, Top Gear games, Penny Racers

>> No.2557136

>>2556790
Consider that the Saturn was produced and sold for 3-1/2 years and only sold 10 million units worldwide, but had about 500 games in its library. N64 was produced and sold for just about 5 years (30 million sold worldwide) and had only 300-ish games.

>> No.2557315

N64 was the go-to console for FPSes, but I never liked that genre anyway.

>> No.2557467

man video game history reads like some kind of anime/fantasy novel
>sony lived long enough to turn from a fresh new hero into a traitorous villain
>sega made a ton of mistakes in their quest to defeat their enemies and eventually burned out (but not before giving away their best)
>nintendo are nintendo, the generic shonen MC

>> No.2557476

>>2557467
What are NEC and SNK?

>> No.2557482
File: 99 KB, 494x481, tips fedora.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2557482

>>2556659

>> No.2557491

>>2557476
secondary characters that got killed-off as the story progressed (except for SNK who remained in the arcade-themed spin-off as Capcom's arch-rival)

>> No.2557516

>>2556067
I always think that the XBox was an Dreamcast 2.0, by far the best gen ever.
>>2556659
Go back to /v/, faggot.

>> No.2557520

>>2557467
>>2557491
I guess SEGA are like the Tenshinhan/Piccolo to the main character. Once enemies but now allies. And once powerful but now completely worthless.

>> No.2557563

>>2557467
Sega confirmed for Tien

>> No.2557575

>>2557467
and you a biased faggot

>> No.2557581

>>2557575
I have no idea which particular flavor of butthurt fanboy you are but fuck off back to /v/ anyway.

>> No.2557619

>>2556067
people actually thought the xbox was good?
wtf

>> No.2557624

it's pointless since the N64 has no gaems

>> No.2557660

>>2557117
>That's your opinion
Sure is.

>objectively much bigger
"Bigger" can only get you so far if it allows for interesting level design; that wasn't the case for me when I played Banjo and DK64. Tooie was kinda close in some parts, but it still fell short in that aspect.

>varied in their gameplay
Meh, I still felt they were still too Banjo-esque. Again, you might have a point with Tooie, then again that was a sequel.

>> No.2557661

>>2557516
>>2556021
>>2556067
>6th gen garbage

>> No.2557663

>>2557661
>>>/v/

>> No.2557664

>>2557663
Sorry, champ. 6th gen isn't allowed here.

>> No.2557668

all console wars threads are just fanboys from each side naming out random games. I bet you haven't played half this shit you just named.

looking forward to next week when we have this exact same discussion again

>> No.2557704

>>2557664
Back to /v/, kid.
>>>/v/

>> No.2557720

>>2557704
Keep crying kiddo. Maybe that'll change the rules.

>> No.2557740

>>2557720
>/v/ kiddy pretending to be retro police

Haha, nice try.
>>>/v/

>> No.2557772

>>2557740
Sorry not everyone likes your Halobox, champ.

>> No.2557819

>>2557772
Swing and a miss.
>>>/v/

>> No.2557842

>>2557819
Why should I go to /v/ if I don;t want to talk about 6th gen garbage?

>> No.2557853

>>2557842
Just stop embarrassing yourself and go back to where you belong. Here, I'll make it easy for you. All you have to do is click the red right below.
>>>/v/

>> No.2557875

>>2557853
Love the mods.

>> No.2557889

both of you shut the fuck up

>> No.2558086

maybe i'm biased since I had an n64, but I did also get a ps2 next gen and played a lot of ps1 games on it. But I honestly think n64 was the best.

It may not have had sheer quantity, but if you were to name the 25 best games of that gen, you can't tell me that at least the top 10 isn't almost entirely n64 games with like MGS and SoTN, and maybe one square rpg there.

SM64, Banjo, both Zelda games, Perfect Dark/Goldeneye, Conkers, Paper Mario... that shit's almost untouchable imo.

>> No.2558093

>>2558086

can't believe I forgot to mention Smash.

>> No.2558120

>>2555717
Why did all three consoles have awful awful analog controllers? Even in the 6th gen the GameCube controller was only good for certain genres and the other two were trash. Wasn't until the 360 controller came around that we really got good 3D controls, and not until the current gen that every console had them.

>> No.2558123

PS1 had so many games that you could spend forever exploring its library. N64 had...wow, Nintendo, Rareware, and Factor 5. That's it.

>> No.2558132
File: 124 KB, 700x483, hybridheaven.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558132

>>2558123

You need to explore the N64 catalogue more.

That's it, if you care about actually having a non-biased opinion.

Also, while it's true the PS1's catalogue is very big, you'd spend most of that time going through shovelware than anything else.

>> No.2558309

>>2556721
>Sony toed the 3D revolution

stop reading right there.

>> No.2558317

>>2558132

Agreed, there's A LOT of junk on the PS1.

>> No.2558328

>>2556743
>refusing to budge from cartridges.
nintendo couldn't budge from cartridges at that point and stay with their corporate strategy (proprietary format + 100% licensing control = WIN to nintendo).

It had tried twice at getting a format developed for them, but couldn't hold on to licensing in either case, so they had to just say "fuck it" if they were ever going to get a system out.

The chinese and south american bootleg markets were hell for nintendo's profits, so having control of proprietary, DRM locked formats was a big thing for nintendo's strategy.

>> No.2558335

>>2556790
>Carts were un-affordable for many developers, this resulted in fewer games being produced for N64, which meant serious genre gaps of games available for the console.

Ironically enough, this is nintendo's fault as a holdover of their earlier business in taking the post 83 market.

their mind was still in third party = shit games mode. and the shovelware for the playstation attests to this to a limited degree.

>> No.2558372

>>2558328
Then how do you explain all the famiclones?

>> No.2558382

>>2556679

You can shorten your list to this:

>3DO Interactive Multiplayer
>Atari Jaguar

>> No.2558387

>>2558372
the chinese and russians are sneaky commie bastards, that's how.

>> No.2558391

>>2558328
They couldn't use CDs because the falling-out with Sony deprived them of a source of optical drives.

>> No.2558393
File: 59 KB, 640x468, 34056_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558393

>>2558132
>Also, while it's true the PS1's catalogue is very big, you'd spend most of that time going through shovelware than anything else.

And yet...

>> No.2558394
File: 80 KB, 300x200, FoxSportsCollegeHoopsN64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558394

>> No.2558395
File: 56 KB, 640x468, 4388_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558395

>> No.2558397
File: 42 KB, 450x289, 182543.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558397

>> No.2558398
File: 154 KB, 1440x962, Wheel_Of_Fortune_-_1997_-_Take_2_Interactive.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558398

>> No.2558402
File: 62 KB, 640x446, 11550_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558402

Look, it's shovelware.

>> No.2558406
File: 31 KB, 250x175, Superman64box.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558406

>> No.2558408
File: 65 KB, 500x698, Mahjong 64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558408

>> No.2558409
File: 85 KB, 395x550, Dance_Dance_Revolution_Disney's_World_Dancing_Museum_cover_art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558409

>> No.2558414
File: 41 KB, 300x420, n64_monopoly.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558414

You get the point.

>> No.2558417

>>2558409
>dance dance revolution
>shovelware

Son...

>> No.2558419
File: 34 KB, 337x458, 36452_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558419

I have a little bit of a soft spot for this since I encountered it in a used game store once (how did a copy of this obscure puzzle game end up in America)

>> No.2558425

>>2558387

...And that's the reason why Sony Playstation was so popular in the Great Russia.

>> No.2558432

>>2556053
The Saturn did quite well in Japan, much better than the N64, but still didn't have as many games as the PlayStation.
>>2556721
Sony didn't do anything right. It's just that Nintendo was living in its own little world as usual and Sega's American and Japanese branches were too busy bickering to give the Saturn the love it needed.

>> No.2558456

>>2558414
Did you really feel the need to spam the thread to make your shitty point? You can look at literally any console and find at least 75% of the library to be shovelware. The ps1 library is at least 90% shovelware. I love the system and even I can admit that, it was just really cheap to produce games for so most of the shovelware ended up there.

>> No.2558461
File: 173 KB, 940x910, Barbie aventure equestre.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2558461

>>2558393

Yeah, I see you took some time to download a bunch of pictures and posted it on here, so for that effort I must thank you or something I guess.
But I never said that N64 didn't have shovelware. There were more (and worse) shovelware on the PS1 though.

>> No.2559296

>>2558456
>>2558461
It's a sonygger. They react like kids at any circumstance

>> No.2559303

>>2558432
Sony just crushed competitors with their wallet. Tons of third parties had exclusivity deals with Sony.
It's a good thing Microsoft entered on the market. It forced Sony to actually try with their hardware. Because before that they just released toasters and crushed competitors with marketting and exclusives deals, which pissed of lot of developers.

>> No.2561341

>>2555717
>other than wrestling
I want this N64 wrestling game meme to die.
The PS1 had the better wrestling games.
Just compare the N64 port of Warzone to the PS1 port.

>> No.2561354

>>2558432
> Sony didn't do anything right
Inexpensive hardware
Inexpensive developer kits
Inexpensive software production and distribution
Dogs you mean Sony did everything right? Because they did.

>>2559303
Nintendo could have been in that elevator on the ground floor and ps2 was hardly a "toaster" if anything it was a bit on the overblown side just like Xbox. Their gamble paid off and people bought it but even though it was an epic run it was the beginning of the end for consoles becoming too computer-like

>> No.2561383

>>2561354
Nintendo had to rush the N64 cause Sony forced them to leave the Playstation project by treating them like second party devs. And they didn't have the marketing power and infinite wallet Sony had. Considering the cimcurstances the N64 did fairly well

Sony just crushed a market of dwarves (Nintendo and Sega could barely feed 3 different markets) with their big wallet to get a monopoly and get an easy money faucet like Microsoft has with the OS market. Microsoft didn't want that because after that Sony could expand on other market like PC gaming and OS. The Xbox forced Sony to spend much more money in their hardware for the Playstation division and stop their monopoly. They turned the console market into a Vietnam war for Sony. And the irony is it gave a reprieve to Nintendo. Probably not for long though.

And yes, the PS2 was a toaster. If you think otherwise you never touched a Xbox or a Gamecube.

>> No.2561393

>>2557117
>F-1 World Grand Prix (best F1 games of this gen)
But that's wrong. The best of gen was clearly Formula 1 '97 by Bizarre Creations

>> No.2561415

>>2561383
Nintendo NEEDED to be treated like software developers. It's whatthey're goodat and for a system that came out 18 months ahead, it...
>Sony could expand on other market like PC gaming and OS
Never mind you're clearly delusional

>> No.2561441

>>2556665
I agree. The schizo sony freaks in this thread really show how bad /vr/ has become.

>> No.2561454

>>2559303
Yeah, I remember a bunch of bullshit released at the time about the PS2 being so powerful that militaries were using it and such, what a load of horseshit. It was less powerful that the GCN, let alone the Xbox. I'm not even sure how much more powerful it was than the Dreamcast, other than the advantage of using DVD.

>> No.2561457

>>2561341
Hey, WCW vs. NWO is my jam, son.

>> No.2561461

Because childhood experiences cement our adult opinions and character, so a lot of people have trouble accepting that the console their mummy and daddy happened to buy them when they were a kid might not be the objective and undeniable best of them all. It's the same reason people flipped shit when Pluto was "demoted" from being a planet. They were raised to believe it was so to have that change is inconceivable to them, but Pluto doesn't care. Pluto's still Pluto.

>> No.2561464
File: 239 KB, 1000x750, photo 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561464

>>2561461
>Pluto's still Pluto.

>> No.2561471

>>2561464

I was actually thinking of that as I was typing that post.

>> No.2561478

>>2561341
>WWF Warzone
The N64 port had the Royal Rumble match, the PS1 didnt, the only thing the PS1 version had where the rants, and that isnt going to help much if the game still plays like shit.

>> No.2561481

>>2561478

And you know what else the PS1 didn't have? Four controller ports.

>> No.2561486

>>2561341
Do you know why Def Jam Vendetta was so awesome? Because Aki gained lot of experience thanks to their N64 wrestling games that couldn't have been made on PS1

>> No.2561491

>>2561415
Dude if Sony gave a shit about hardware, the PS1 and PS2 wouldn't have been toasters
But I'm talking to a sonygger so I get I won't convince you of anything. Keep thinking it's a matter of good and bad guys.

>> No.2561502

>>2555717
You forgot racing. Arcadey racers on N64, realistic racers on PS1.

>> No.2561512

>>2561491
>the PS1 and PS2 wouldn't have been toasters

Those two consoles were exceptional in what they needed to do. Meanwhile the N64's true potential remained untapped because of Nintendo's retarded policies.

>>2561502
Sorry, but no, pretty sure the PS1 had both.

>> No.2561521

>>2561502

I'm not sure what is your definition of "realistic", but there are dozens of arcade racing titles for PS1. There are probably more of those budget Mario Kart clones on PS1 than you think.

>> No.2561536

>>2561441
>implying the nintendo freaks arguing with them are any better.

>> No.2561543

>>2561512
There's no point to argue with a drone like you and it's really not a secret Microsoft entered in the race to stop a Sony monopoly.

You know moderate people who aren't blind fanboys think like this:
>>2561383

And sonyggers think Sony is perfect and the other are evil and only make bad games. I can't argue with your delusion. I'll just point out you're missing a lot of great games. Your loss, not mine

>> No.2561554
File: 38 KB, 480x360, Captain Hindsight.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561554

>>2555717
This fucking thread man.

The consoles and games weren't 20+ years old when they launched, it took time for the libraries to build up from scratch.

>> No.2561557

>>2555717
PS1 and PS2 outselled other sistems, because the games could be easily pirated on latin america countires and other european undeveloped countries, so the console sold like fresh bread, in mexico everyone owned a PS1, the modchip costed around 50 dollars with install, and the pirated games like 0.25 us cents each.

>> No.2561558

>>2561512
>Meanwhile the N64's true potential remained untapped

Wait, what?
N64 games showed fine capabilities of the N64.

>> No.2561561

>>2561536
>How to spot a Sonygger
He argues that PS4 is good
>How to spot a Nintendrone
He argues that N64 was good

See, at least the Sonygger has optimism. The Nintendrone is just myopic. Literally delusional.

>> No.2561563

>>2561512
>Those two consoles were exceptional in what they needed to do

Being shovelwares machines? Those machines have probably the worst ratio of good games/shovelwares

>> No.2561565

all this thread does is confirm that sega fans are the best

>> No.2561567

>>2561557
No way Mang. In the US even cheap blanks costed me like $2 each back then. Shit, Homes.

>> No.2561569

>>2561558
cartridges space capacity, limited the system a lot.

>> No.2561572

>>2561561
The PS4 is actually the casual system of its gen now. It's defended by normies. A real sonygger would defend the PSP or the Vita. Which are dead now.

>> No.2561578

>>2561569
Then why the N64 games were bigger?
The N64 had much more capabilities. But Sony bought tons of third party exclusives like the entire catalog of Square or Namco. They crushed the market with their big wallet, not with their toasters hardware

>> No.2561579

>>2561567
in mexico city each pirated ps1 game costed 15 pesos back then, i think he miscalculated, that would be like 1 dollar each game.

>> No.2561580

>>2561572
Defending the PSP is reasonable though. I don't know how one can defend the Vita after Sony blatantly fucked it over with bullshit security restrictions and it's weeb-bait library.

>> No.2561582

>>2561578
games were bigger, but with very low poly and horrible and blurred textures, ps1 games had a lot more textures, even tough they looked more pixelated, and games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy IX had better looking characters.

>> No.2561585
File: 194 KB, 1024x768, 1[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561585

>>2561565
Sega fans have gracefully accepted defeat. That's the difference. They can be happy to say "Yeah, Sony crushed the systems but fuck look at all these awesome games" which I guess Nintendrones are afraid to do since their libraries are much weaker but the company managed to crawl through by focusing their market on children and manchildren and dominating the handhelds.Undeserved pride is just such a turn off it's no wonder Miyamoto offed himself.

>> No.2561586
File: 724 KB, 720x540, 1422181397007.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561586

>using "sonygger", "nintendrone", "Pcucks" or "xbots"
>in /vr/

You all aren't welcome in this board, for god's sake.

>> No.2561592

>>2561579
The big expense was the $250 I paid for the burner. You guys must have had industrial piracy. Were they pressed discs or CDRs? Shit is crazy down there how can you even handle it?

>> No.2561593

>>2561572

Well, in the Great Russia PSP was more popular than NDS because of: it's the Playstation, but Portable; games pirating is easy enough; and overall it was a fine multimedia device.

>> No.2561594

>>2561586
>Implying N64 lovers aren't the absolute worst of their wretched ilk

>> No.2561601

>>2561592
there was a big piracy industries, pirates would build pc towers with like 7 cd burnes, pirated music, and pirated games sold a lot back then, look up for "Tepito" it is like the piracy heaven in mexico city.

>> No.2561604

>>2561578
>Then why the N64 games were bigger?
... they weren't? No way could you fit FF7 or Panzer Saga onto an N64 cart. I like the N64 but going with carts was a massive, horrible mistake.

>> No.2561605
File: 100 KB, 1054x521, conkers_bad_fur_day_n64_offensive.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561605

>>2561582
well meme'd

>> No.2561617

>>2561604
>No way could you fit FF7

That's because no one did it. As we know, FF7 got ported on the Famicom.

>> No.2561620

>>2561617
yeah, nowdays, but back then it would have been a very difficult task.

>> No.2561621

>>2561604
You're talking about data like cinematics or still pictures
It had nothing to do with 3D content
The ps1 and the Saturn couldn't handle levels as big as Banjo or Perfect Dark. FF7 isn't even a big game. The world map is smaller than the Hyrule Field from OOT

>> No.2561625

>>2561594
Don't you have a shita thread to spread on /v/?

>> No.2561639

>>2561621
Oh I see what you mean. I should probably read threads before responding.

>> No.2561646
File: 30 KB, 312x316, chill man.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561646

>>2561569
I was actually talking about Nintendo banning the usage of microcodes that made the game look "worse" (i.e. unfiltered, not Z-buffered) than the competition, even if it could push twice the polygons and texture fill (of anything available at the moment), or just run at 60 frames per second as opposed to fighting to just keep a steady 20 for some forgettable eye candy.

I'm not even against Nintendo's choice for not ditching cartridges, although it wasn't a smart business move.

>>2561543
Dude you need to take a chill. Breathe some fresh air.

>> No.2561651

>>2561646
nintendo baned that? i didnt knew about it

>> No.2561658

>>2561621
>The ps1 and the Saturn couldn't handle levels as big as Banjo or Perfect Dark.
I thought it could? The only thing that would have to be compromised would be the graphics admittedly.

>The world map is smaller than the Hyrule Field from OOT
But what about the fact that Hyrule Field itself was dangerously close to becoming omitted from the game because the developers had a lot of trouble trying to fit it in?

>> No.2561661

>>2556053
I'm still bothered about the Saturn's architecture. Like, all of it.

If each CPU had a decent bit of RAM all to itself, it'd be a far more effective design. Even if the system's amount of RAM in total stayed the same.
instead, they have these absolutely tiny caches and you end up a: slowly contending for memory access, each CPU blocks the other or b: one CPU passes data over to the other CPU's tiny cache, which is still pretty slow, and needs to be done regularly
Leveraging both CPUs on the Saturn is a bitch.

The VDP1's lame fillrate doesn't help the machine either, and IIRC, most Saturn games do 3D transformations in software because the DSP was fuck-awful to use.

Sega prioritized 2D performance even though by 1993 it was increasingly obvious that it wouldn't matter in the long run. The Saturn was always designed for 3D, but it wasn't designed to put a huge amount of 3D stuff on screen.

It's got a few advantages (the VDP2 is a neat specialized chip, does advanced mode-7 style backgrounds and you can get some very impressive effects, like the water in Panzer Dragoon).

but overall, who thought of this design and why weren't they fired on the spot
some of this is hindsight, but holy fuck Sega had years of arcade hardware design knowledge and shouldn't have managed to fuck this up

Imagine, a Saturn designed by Yu Suzuki. Now that'd be a machine. I'm pretty sure he was involved with the machine's design, but imagine if he was the one in charge (IIRC, he was busy working on the Model 2 during the Saturn design process).
although, I dunno if he'd be able to work within console budgets, he was used to being able to throw whatever he wanted into a board

>> No.2561671

>>2561658
It didnt get cut, that fact is irrelevant

>> No.2561674

>>2561646
of all the things, this hurt the N64 more than anything else

The N64 should have completely and utterly destroyed the competition graphically. It doesn't.

>>2561572
PSP is easily defendable. Easily my favorite non-/vr/ machine.

>>2561491
PS2's design lets it do some really impressive stuff. Only multiplats suffered because it's the least conventional of the three 6th-gen machines. It's slower overall, but its competition (other than the DC) had a whole year's tech advantage.

The PS1 had raw polygon performance for a 1994-era machine and was generally considered to be very well designed. In an era before commonplace consumer-grade 3D rendering, it pushed a fuckton of polygons.
It's the very opposite of a toaster.

>>2558317
true

there's a lot of junk on all systems (download a SNES or Genesis fullset and play all of the games, one by one -- worst experience ever, even if I did find a couple of games I'd have NEVER touched), but the PS1 seems to take the cake
it approaches Atari 2600 levels of shovelware

>> No.2561724

>>2561671
>that fact is irrelevant
Not really. It still illustrated that even the N64 had trouble trying to handle big maps itself sometimes.

>> No.2561752
File: 433 KB, 1024x768, 8063244614_ca4950394f_b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561752

>>2561658
>>2561604
>>2561724
The original Silent Hill had a very big and detailed map, they had to compensate it with closer draw distance but the fog effect effectivly made a hardware limitation
into a effective gameplay effect, this among other tricks the developers did, made the PS1 games so effective, developers had the creativity and the effective tools to push the machine to its limits, also while the gamplay of Driver 2 wasnt the best, the game had very big sandbox maps, and looked incredibly good for its time.

>> No.2561763

>>2561752
Stop saying effective

>> No.2561767

>>2561763
TELL ME A MORE EFFECTIVE WORD AND I WILL!

>> No.2561791

>nobody ever actually had a Saturn
>N64 had cartridges
>PS had CDs, which meant free games

PS wins every time.

>> No.2561793

>>2561605
>comparing games with different artstyles.

c'mon now.

>> No.2561797
File: 296 KB, 1054x521, ftfy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2561797

>>2561793
oh, forgot this.

>> No.2561816

>>2561797
Some builds of MGS1 featured detailed facial textures but were ultimately cut because they just looked wrong and possibly scary.

Evidence of this can be found by analyzing small ingame scenes, which are formatted the same way as the the codec ones, with eye/mouth flags and so on (the mouth flag just moves the head in the final game).

>> No.2561831

>>2561674
>The N64 should have completely and utterly destroyed the competition graphically. It doesn't.
But it does, anon. People concentrate too much on the terrible ports. The games that were programmed correctly ANNIHILATE the PS1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRPX02A9yY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nek5y4Q0mog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcP4Q8Yp0FY

Don't forget, the N64 is doing all of these things, and is also

1) Doing expensive but fully accurate texture-perspective calculations, instead of faster but less accurate affine calculations which cause warping

2) Calculating polygon coordinates with higher precision, so they don't jitter

3) Running a bilinear filtering algorithm through almost every texture

4) Calculating depth by sorting EVERY SINGLE pixel via a z-buffer, instead of the less accurate way of trying to sort not even per polygon, but by GROUPS of polygons on the PS1 (World Driver Championship excepted, it doesn't use a z-buffer)

>> No.2561846

>>2561752
For PS1 open-world games it's either this
You can either have
1) Good texturing, but not everything is textured (Spyro)
or
2) Everything is textured, but it's absolutely god-awful sub-N64 quality (Driver)

This is due to hardware limitations

>> No.2561849

>>2561797
N64: uncanny valley
PS1: no uncanny valley

Detailed doesn't mean it looks better.

>> No.2561868

>>2561831
The 4 points you mentioned are absolutely trivial to me, I'd rather have faster gameplay/better looking environments/characters instead of just playing a game which touts TRUE 3D like it's this amazing feat.

>>2561846
Or you can have games like MGS1 which draw excellent textures, with no mipmapping and infinite draw distance, but just slow the game down to a crawl. Fortunately, it only happens while you're in first person view, because the game has conveniently placed cameras to keep normal gameplay stable.

>> No.2561873

>>2561572
>PSP
>bad

Get the fuck out

Of course the PSP is dead now but is quite possibly the best portable system that was ever released, and even without CFW it's still a great system.

>> No.2561893

>>2561831
Yeah also PC was doing that, and BETTER

>> No.2561896

>>2561846
Megaman Legends 2 laso had very nice graphics and texturing,

>> No.2561904

>>2561831
>Calculating polygon coordinates with higher precision, so they don't jitter

I never owned a PSX, but were polygons really seen jittering back then?

>> No.2561930

>>2561904
You're not supposed to see anything too strange until you increase the native resolution in which case polygons don't seem to move smoothly, because they're hardwired on XY screen coordinates.

To me it's just nitpicking.

>> No.2561932

>>2561868
>I'd rather have faster gameplay/better looking environments/characters instead of just playing a game which touts TRUE 3D like it's this amazing feat.
World Driver Championship does more polygons per second than any texture-based PS1 game, so with good programming on N64 you can have your cake and eat it too. Granted, it had to give up z-buffer, but the rest of the three points still stand in addition to its superior polygonal capability. FYI you can have 8 high-poly cars appear on screen at once, and the game doesn't even drop a frame. Compare that to Type 4 which only has one opponent car at a time displayed on the screen.

>infinite draw distance
Haha, MGS isn't an open-world game. It's literally a series of little interconnected rooms. The Sniper Wolf outdoor parts actually cull based on distance at a fairly short range unless you are zoomed into the sniper rifle.

>>2561893
>Yeah also PC was doing that, and BETTER
Not at the time the N64 came out, the S3 Virge card for PC was hardly stiff competition. After the Voodoo came out, of course. That being said, the N64 did do a few things that the Voodoo series didn't
1) Off-CPU T&L
2) Anti-aliasing
3) Programmable vertex shading
4) Color combiner / pixel shader

>>2561896
While it is a very likable and graphically pleasing game, it does have a fairly short draw distance, so it's not really very open-world.

>>2561904
It's pretty much the first thing you should notice when playing PS1. The console's graphics look nice in screenshots and fairly shoddy in motion.

>> No.2561940

>>2561932
(cont)
What I meant to say about Megaman Legends 2 is while the gameplay is open-world, the graphics aren't very "open". Just needed to clarify that.

>> No.2561947

>>2561904
Check 1:05 of this video for PS1 jittering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cqSqsM-xbo

>> No.2561952

>>2558432
PS1 had simple, easy to program hardware unlike the Saturn's dual CPUs and the N64's hilariously bad bottlenecks.

>> No.2561958

>>2561952
THIS

>> No.2561963

>>2561952
>N64's hilariously bad bottlenecks.
World Driver Championship's lead programmer said the game was able to distribute the load on N64 hardware evenly across everything, no bottlenecks, no stalls.

The real problem with the hardware was that it was too ahead of its time.

>> No.2561974

>>2561963
>The real problem with the hardware was that it was too ahead of its time

That is sort of true because time, money, and contemporary manufacturing technology didn't allow them to produce a 64-bit console that worked without serious architectural problems.

>> No.2561979

>>2561974
Also using cartridges seriously crippled it. If Nintendo did use CDs, Sony would be a footnote in gaming history.

>> No.2561981

>>2561932
>It's literally a series of little interconnected rooms.

I know that, these rooms managed to look pretty impressive though, like the heliport, the place when you fight the tank, or even the metal gear itself. Maybe the polygon count isn't really top notch but the textures more than make up for it. Just like Crash Bandicoot and a lot of games like it streamed its levels, the same could be done with an open world MGS1-like game, with the appropriate load times and engineering.

>> No.2561990

>>2561974
> worked without serious architectural problems.
And what architectural problems are those? Every modern console follows the N64 model , not the PS1 model. Not the Saturn model. The N64 way was so new and fancy, programmers didn't have time to orient themselves to the new paradigm.

It's as Miyamoto said, that PS1 programmers will have their first experience of programming true 3D on the PS2, so they will struggle a lot at first (which is exactly what happened).

Every genuine issue with the N64 hardware is down to Nintendo not wanting to spend money on a better motherboard. The chips on the N64 itself are pretty much as realistically perfect as they can get for 1996.

>> No.2562003

>>2561981
Yeah, but my point was the PS1 hardware just isn't suited to actual open-world games.

Stuff like MGS looks really good, but that was playing to the PS1's strengths, what the console was actually strong at.

>> No.2562013

>>2561990
Could you tell more about models? What are the differences?

>> No.2562016

Take for example Rage Racer vs Ridge Racer 64. RR64 had cleaner graphics, due to more powerful hardware which allows for better post-processing (like Z-buffering, anti-aliasing, etc.), but the artistry and overall atmosphere is completely lost in RR64. While it might look smoother (but even then, the jaggies are still quite prevalent, as seen in the video you posted right as the race starts) the overall graphic design suffers and it ends up looking like a "Nintendo-fied" version of RR with crayon colors and boxy toy-like cars. I'll take the detailed texture maps found in something like R4 or ever Rage Racer (1996) over over-filtered mip-mapped to hell and back/2kb cache stretched textures found in RR64, even if the N64's resolution is higher.

What R4 has over RR64 is style, atmosphere, and quality graphic design. You can give a team all of the super hardware and developmental tools in the world but if they have no artistry then forget it. For example, Deadliest Catch on PS3 might technically have better graphics than Okami on Wii, but to me Okami easily beats it in artistry, originality, atmosphere, and vision...even though it is being run on much less capable hardware. In the end, I say Okami on Wii has better graphics than Deadliest Catch on PS3.

>> No.2562020

>>2562003
Open world games work better on the N64 simply because it doesn't have any load time. A game like Ocarina of Time would be a nuisance to play on the PS1.

>> No.2562024

>>2562016
At this point, you're just trolling, it's obvious. Ridge Racer 4 has AWFUL graphics, take a look at those ugly textures, any kind of detail is destroyed because the PS1 is not capable of texture filtering which is necessary on low resolutions. It's always the same with you Sonyniggers, you can't stand that the N64 has much better graphics.

>> No.2562026

>>2562024
>PS1 is not capable of texture filtering which is necessary on low resolutions
>texture
>filtering
>necessary
>low
>resolutions

Pretty sure you got it backwards, just a thought.

>> No.2562030

>>2562024
Actually I'm not a Sony partisan and I've owned and played 37 N64 games. Also I've owned Sega consoles and Xboxes. As far as texture maps, the PS1 tends to have far more detailed texture mapping than what is generally found on N64. The N64 texture cache is half of the PS1's when the filtering is turned on, resulting in a smaller texture that needs to be stretched and therefore looks repetitive, smudgy, and lacking detail. This is a fact that you can easily look up.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/n64-lost-to-ps1-because-nintendo-was-lazy-28733982/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64#Graphics

http://digitalfantasy.angelfire.com/n64-hardware-specifications.html

>> No.2562034

>>2562030
And it's not just about a small texture cache, it's about the bottlenecks in the hardware design. PS1 textures are generally more detailed and larger, but pixelate, while N64 has smaller less detailed textures that don't pixelate, but blur instead. N64 hardware is better suited for softer cartoon-like imagery (Banjo, Mario, Conker) while PS1 is better suited for gritty detailed imagery (Tekken 3, Vagrant Story, Soul Reaver 2). Which is probably why RR64 ends up looking like a kiddie version of RR compared to the PS1 games, due to softer/simplified textures. The pic I posted of the infamous glass skyscraper in Ridge City is proof of that. It's the same reason why World Driver Championship (N64) looks so much softer and less detailed than, say, Gran Turismo 2 on PS1.

BTW Ridge Racer Type 4 on PS1 is considered one of the best looking games on the console, so you saying it has "terrible" graphics outs you as uninformed on the subject you're discussing.

>> No.2562036

Aight, let's see what some programmers who worked on the N64 had to say. Straight from the horse's mouth.

"Everything just kinda works. For the most part, it was fast and flexible. You never felt like you were utilizing it well. But it was ok because your half-assed efforts usually looked better than most PS1 games."

-- Cory Bloyd, Monkeryfun Studios

"A typical well-made N64 game looks always better than a similar Playstation game."
- Julian Eggebrecht, Factor 5

"It's still the best system out there. The graphics are far better than any of the other systems."
- Lee Schunemann, Rare

Also the PS1 can move only half as many polys per second as the N64.

And you are wrong about the texture cache. It was not that the texture cache/scratchpad was too small. It was actually double the size of the Playstations (4Kb vs 2Kb).

Mip Mapping is actually very useful on certain textures, and you can switch it on/off whenever you want.

Filtering does not reduce texture resolution, you don't know what are you talking.

And seriously, you're trying to justify your opinion based on washed out gifs, low quality youtube videos, and low res pictures? I have already shown 2 youtube videos with similar video quality (in my opinion). It shows how much more powerful the N64 was compared to the PS1, it's a fact you can't deny.

t. N64 has much better graphics

>> No.2562046

>>2562036
That's kind of an asspull because the PS1 had something like 2000 games in its library while the N64 had less than 400. Tons of PS1 games were piece of shit shovelware as the console was easy and cheap to develop for. The N64 was expensive as hell, so devs were pretty much obliged to put more effort into games. N64 is indisputably more powerful hardware, bottom line, but the poor design of how the hardware was implemented created such bottlenecks that drastically kept developers from showing off what the N64 truly had to offer. You could put forth less effort and end up with something that at least has no pixelation and can boast a more consistent framerate, but at the same time you have no pixelation because everything is blurred and a higher framerate because there is fog everywhere (which also covers up the clipping/bad draw distance that might be occurring), so yeah N64 had that going for it: constant tradeoffs. Tradeoffs that were visually more apparent than developmental tradeoffs on other hardware.

>> No.2562051

>>2562036
>"A typical well-made N64 game looks always better than a similar Playstation game."
>- Julian Eggebrecht, Factor 5
Good thing Julian said "typical" because some multiplatform games like Quake II say otherwise (hell, Quake on Saturn was better than on N64). Same with Resident Evil 2 (the N64 port is amazing though!)

>"It's still the best system out there. The graphics are far better than any of the other systems."
>- Lee Schunemann, Rare

"Far better" is a ridiculous statement when graphics in PS1 games like Crash 3, Soul Reaver, Spyro Year of the Dragon, Tekken 3, Gran Turismo 2, Tobal 2, Wipeout 3, R4, Vagrant Story, etc. exist. Again, N64 contained more powerful hardware, but it was hard as hell to get decent results out of.

>> No.2562054

>>2562036
- N64 can push more polygons but when post-processing effects are turned on that number goes down dramatically to the point where you can barely notice a difference in polygonal geometry between a N64 game and PS1 game.

- N64's texture cache gets halved when mipmapping/trilinear filtering is turned on (so the texture doesn't pixelate) so it goes from 4k to 2k.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=2156

Which in example is why we see the texture mapping in this emulated pic of N64 look so blurry:
http://img.neoseeker.com/mgv/387555/555/1/mario64_3_display.jpg

Compared to this emulated pic of PS1 where the textures are much more detailed and not blurry:
http://i.imgur.com/jMH1l.jpg

The gifs and pics I used were to show you examples of detailed textured environments vs. simplistic textured environements, as seen in R4 (PS1) vs. RR64 (N64).

I don't care which YouTube videos you use, in any of them you will see that R4 has more detailed environments compared to RR64. Just make sure you're using clips that are from actual hardware and not emulators. Or, simply play both titles and see for yourself (I have).

>> No.2562059

>>2562036
>what some programmers who worked on the N64 had to say
>half-assed efforts usually looked better than most PS1 game
>well-made N64 game looks always better than a similar Playstation game.
>The graphics are far better than any of the other systems

Whoa, I couldn't have totally figured this out just by looking at the specs. Truly the spoken words of truth (mind, I have sympathy towards those developers).

>> No.2562061

Fuck, you're still arguing with professional developers, that's hilarious. You can't stand the fact that the N64 has better graphics, that's your problem. I'm surprised about your immaturity. Typical Sonynigger drones, they will always defending a underpowered POS which is simply not capable for decent 3D graphics. You wrote some seriously entertaining bullshit though.

>> No.2562065

>>2561793
There are more polygons in Conker's head than in the entire Solid Snake

>> No.2562070

>>2562061
I'm no Sonynigger drone, you just lack reading comprehension. You can't seem to grasp that I own consoles by Nintendo, Sega, Sony, and Microsoft. I already said the N64 is more powerful than PS1. Multiple times. Anyone can see that just by looking at the hardware specs on paper. What you can't seem to understand is that the hardware is bottlenecked and yes the texture cache gets cut down 50% when using the N64's texture filtering (trilinear filtering and/or mip mapping) which makes it so pixelation is nonexistent, but you now have smaller textures that must be stretched and are blurry. Not sure how many times I have to tell you this...

Here:

https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&ei=Mt_OUoCfI8jxoAT2i4GAAw&ved=0CBcQ1S4#q=n64+texture+cache+halved

Go read for yourself. If you still don't understand, then it's pointless to even continue to try and educate you as your ignorance is alarming.

>> No.2562071

>>2562061
do you have something more to say than "bawww sonnygers bawww"?

>> No.2562075

One last example to blow your mind, for good measure:

Here's Mario 64 with texture filtering turned OFF (no trilnear filtering, no mip mapping):

http://i.imgur.com/cz6IJ.png

Now here's Mario 64 on the DS, which has a larger texture cache, and looks more like a PS1 game:

http://i.imgur.com/6prvI.png

The first pic is what the textures look like without the trademark N64 blur going on. You can see how even then the texture capability was low, and using small/lower resolution maps.

Ask any developer who worked on both N64 AND PS1 and they'll tell you all about N64's texture cache problem. I have to say, it's hilarious how you quote a Rareware dev when they were a subsidiary of Nintendo and never developed a single PS1 game to be able to judge its hardware.

Funny...I own N64, PS1, and Saturn, and played them back in the 90s and here you are calling me a fanboy. You're pathetic.

>> No.2562076

>>2562054
But Crash looks as blurry and the FOV is crap
See that mountain in your Mario 64 pic? You can climb it. Why the ps1 couldn't do that?

>> No.2562082

>>2562061
>>2562071
and arguments from authority, no less.

jesus christ this thread is horrible

>> No.2562087

>>2562075
It had texture cache problem because of all the polygons it had to texture.
No texture problem on ps1 since there was nothing to show.
Why the Turok games were never released on PS1?

>> No.2562089

>>2562070
Anon, you are pitiful...and dumb, very dumb.

1) You don't even know the difference between billinear filtering (texture smoothing) and trillinear filtering (texture smoothing + mip mapping). The texture resolution is unchanged when billinear filtering is activated.

2) Rare were known for pushing hardware to its limits, yes they worked for Nintendo, but they are still professional developers and much more credible than you. Julian said that a well-programmed N64 game (like Banjo, Rogue Squadron etc.) always looks better. And if you would actually read the interview, he did speak of the N64's various technical limitations.

3) You are right about N64's bottlenecks. The limited texture cache (could be solved with VRAM) was bad, so was the fillrate and RAM management. The N64 was awkwardly-designed, very difficult to program. BUT developers learned how to work with the hardware and made games which surpassed the PS1 graphics easily (like Julian Eggebrecht has claimed).

4) You think Mario 64DS has PS1 graphics? It looks far superior to any PS1 game. On top of that you have chosen with Mario 64 (one of the worst looking N64 games) a bad example which does not show for what the system is capable for. And you know that (oh I forgot, you are a troll). I can do the same with Bubsy 3D for example.

5) Let's compare an advanced PS1 and N64 game.

Vagrant Story

http://media.edge-online.com/wp-content/uploads/edgeonline/2012/11/37760-Vagrant_Story_U-15.jpg

Duke Nukem Zero Hour

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101222205328/dukenukem/images/a/a5/Zero_3.png

Conclusion:
Vagrant Story is so horrible pixelated, it's laughable. Any kind of detail is non existent because of the pixelation. It shows the lack of anti aliasing, texture smoothing and it looks even worse in motion (no Z buffering).

Duke Nukem Zero Hour looks like a PS2 game.

N64 was almost a next gen system compared to the PS1, and there's no way to prove me wrong.

>> No.2562101
File: 110 KB, 700x560, gfs_27982_2_15.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2562101

Look at this big room, all those boxes that could explode, those 4 enemies running around. Why the PS1 couldn't do that?

>> No.2562106

>>2562089
1) I'm dumb? Really?! Whether I'm right or wrong, I like how you consider the knowledge of bilinear and trilinear filtering to be the determining factor of human intelligence. Wow, lol. Whichever filtering it is, the one that blurs the texture - bottom line. Don't try to go around the point!

2) A Sonynigger wouldn't have Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and Sega consoles in his collection

3) Of course you won't understand my latest example on how Mario 64 DS shares more similarities in texture quality to PS1 than N64 (even with perfect screenshots or you to view). You're too arrogant to admit it. And remember, I'm only making comparisons in TEXTURE MAPPING. I never said anything about other graphical effects/polygon counts, etc.

4) Why do you keep putting me against Julian? If that's the case, then you have to put Julian against anyone else on the internet ever who has said the N64 texture cache gets halved from 4kb to 2kb when implementing mip mapping. Not to mention, other developers who did N64 development.

5) I picked Mario 64 simply because it was a good quality screenshot to show off exactly what I was talking about: blurry textures. And yes, the textures in Crash 1 on PS1 are of higher quality (I gave you screenshot examples but you probably didn't look them over). Both games came out THE SAME YEAR. If anything, in that example you should argue that Naughty Dog had a better dev team than Nintendo.

6) Thank you for finally admitting to the hard to develop for N64 hardware full of bottlenecks.

>> No.2562107

>>2562030
>The N64 texture cache is half of the PS1's when the filtering is turned on
Alright, let's hold up here. This is absolutely and utterly wrong on two levels.

Firstly, that "texture cache cut in half" penalty applies only to mipmapping. Mipmaps != texture filtering, UNLESS you are doing trilinear texture filtering (which was almost never used anyway). Bilinear doesn't need mipmaps to work. There is no penalty for applying texture filtering to a texture on N64, except a minor hit to fill while the dedicated filtering unit processes the texture.

Secondly, the PS1 texture cache is 2KB compared to 4KB on N64, so even with mipmapping enabled, the N64's texture cache is the same size as the PS1's texture cache. The advantage PS1 had in texturing over the N64 was because the PS1 could texture directly out of RAM, and the N64 couldn't due to the cheapo motherboard.

Please...at least try harder to pretend to know what you are talking about next time.

>> No.2562117

>>2562106
7) Remember, we were originally talking about Ridge Racer 64 vs. Ridge Racer Type 4. I say R4 has more complex/detailed/atmospheric graphics with overall better graphic design than RR64. RR64 looks like the the baby of a Ridge Racer/Cruisin' USA marriage. Now you've blown this whole thing into N64 vs. PS1. I say N64 is more powerful, yet you don't seem to care that I say that. I say the texture mapping abilities of the N64 were weak for the hardware, and you end up flipping out.

8) N64's best looking games look better than PS1's best looking games (not by some gargantuan margin, though). However, in most N64 software you can see the low quality textures rearing their ugly heads. It was one of the N64's weaknesses. Basically, either you prefer blurry Vaseline textures (N64) or gritty pixelated textures (PS1). We seem to have differing preferences.

Generally, you simply won't get this level of texture detail on the N64:
http://youtu.be/ZQYw25t-KY8?t=2h22m25s

Or this:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/196917-chrono-cross/images/screen-114
Or this:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/196917-chrono-cross/images/screen-129

There are some rare exceptions, however.

>> No.2562121

>>2562106
>And yes, the textures in Crash 1 on PS1 are of higher quality (I gave you screenshot examples but you probably didn't look them over). Both games came out THE SAME YEAR

Crash Bandicoot is a linear game that literally streams pre-calculated 3D values from the CD straight into the GPU because every camera angle in the game out of player control (seriously, read the andy and gavin blog, they explain it all).

Mario 64 is a game with an open-world and fully controllable camera. The game has to do every 3D calculation in real-time.

How is this not blatant cherry picking? Even by Naughty Dog's own admission, they couldn't have imagined an open-world game having better graphics than Mario 64 did in 1996, on ANY platform.

>> No.2562126

why did the N64 have no sprite games

>> No.2562128
File: 927 KB, 480x320, 1406928452853.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2562128

Why the ps1 couldn't do that?

>> No.2562131

>>2562117
RR64 actually does more than one opponent car at a time....try again please.

Stop with the blatant cherry picking.

>> No.2562135

>>2562126
Because we already played them on Snes and Genesis
Why the ps1 could do good 3D games?

>> No.2562141

>>2562121
It was mentioned a few posts above that the PS1 wasn't really suited for open world games due to load time.

>> No.2562142

>>2562126
because the higher-ups wanted most games to be 3D, or at least that's what people typically speculate. N64 architecture also had a built in form of AA, which would've lead to serious problems with sprite blurring and shit(look at games like Harvest Moon 64, text boxes look horrible by today's standards and the blurring is what had a huge impact)

>> No.2562146

>>2562142
>>2562126
Saturn is the only 5th gen console that has proper 2D capabilities. PS1 and N64 essentially have to fudge it.

>> No.2562148

>>2562141
So that's why the games were so small and simple. I see now

>> No.2562149

>>2562117
>Generally, you simply won't get this level of texture detail on the N64:
No textures drawn in the distance, because there is no distance drawing
Very sparse texture variety
Worse-than-Banjo-Tooie framerate drops during boss battles

>> No.2562153

>>2562148
You could argue that of the Saturn as well. Or heck, go back to the NES era. You weren't going to do Dragon Quest or Zelda on a computer of that period.

>> No.2562159

>>2562148
Also the PS1 has 1MB of RAM to store program code in while the N64 can access the entire (up to 64MB) game at once. OOT would require a hideous amount of disc access on the PS1 or Saturn.

>> No.2562162

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehXDYFbHM2A&t=2m38s

Why the PS1 games didn't have this FOV?

>> No.2562163

>>2562153
>You weren't going to do Dragon Quest or Zelda on a computer of that period.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>> No.2562165

>>2562142
You can disable texture filtering and AA on N64.

There was nothing in the hardware itself stopping from making games that looked exactly like PS1 games on N64.

Here's the real reason many N64 games had blurry textures:

Turing on texture filtering on N64 was low-performance cost, and easy. One line of code to active it.

Mastering the texture-cache for high resolution textures was difficult. Only developers like Rare and Factor 5 bothered.

Nothing to do with the hardware, and all to do with who could be bothered and who couldn't.

>> No.2562169

>>2562126

Bangai-O

>> No.2562173

>>2562153
If you ever played Maniac Mansion, which is pretty much an open world kind of game, you'd see what I mean. The original Commodore 64 version performs a horrendous amount of disk access, which is of course a total non-issue on the NES port.

>> No.2562178

>>2562163
>>2562153
If it was a 16-bit machine like the Amiga, you could easily fit almost the whole game into memory. If it was an 8-bit machine like the C64, you'd really, really hate it.

>> No.2562179

>>2562141
>It was mentioned a few posts above that the PS1 wasn't really suited for open world games due to load time.
It's not really so much to do with load-times as it is with

1) PS1's jittery polygons get even more jittery when drawn far from the camera (unless you draw lots of extra otherwise unnecessary polygons)
2) PS1's warping textures warp even more than drawn far from the camera (unless you draw lots of extra otherwise unnecessary polygons)

>> No.2562182

>>2562165
>Mastering the texture-cache for high resolution textures was difficult. Only developers like Rare and Factor 5 bothered

You're probably talking about the N64's 640x480 hi-res mode which only a handful of games used.

>> No.2562186

>>2562178
I know that; the 16-bit versions of Maniac Mansion are a breeze to play. You load a room once and never have to load it again, you can install the game on a hard disk, and no special save floppy is required.

>> No.2562189

>>2562173
>>2562178
What about Ultima kind of games.

>> No.2562193

>>2562189
Did perform a lot of disk access although Dick Garriot tried to implement it to be like streaming, where the game would just load little bits and pieces as you went along to make things as fast and invisible as possible.

>> No.2562194

>>2562182
No, the resolution of textures is a separate programming issue to the screen resolution. The former involves the texture cache and the latter doesn't.

Screen resolution is more related to z-buffer though (the bigger the screen resolution, the bigger the z-buffer has to be).

>> No.2562197

>>2562194
Factor 5 did make some of the only 640x480 games though.

>> No.2562209

>>2562197
They aren't actually the full 640x480, but neither for that matter are the so-called 640x480 PS1 games.

Hell, the MAJORITY of PS2 games aren't the full 640x480.

What Factor 5 achieved in Battle for Naboo was bloody amazing though. High-poly, high texture resolution, smooth stable non-glitchy 3D, and a decent framerate. It's not worlds apart from Starfighter on PS2

>> No.2562212

>>2562209
Indy and the Infernal Machine isn't 640x480? I could swear it was.

>> No.2562223

>>2562212
I'm fairly sure the resolution is something like 480x400, weird aspect ratio, much like Battle for Naboo. Turok 2 was pretty similar. And Tekken 3.

>> No.2562242

Was there a game released in the entirety of 5th gen that had better water than Wave Race 64 (released in 1996)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGy3x_pcAbs

>> No.2562258

>>2555717

Damn, I miss when different consoles had different identities like this.

>> No.2562264
File: 63 KB, 602x382, wr64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2562264

>>2562242

No, and there also hasn't been any jetski game as good as Wave Race 64 ever since.

>> No.2562308

>>2562242
afaik, not really. that's what i liked about the 5th gen; there were technically impressive games on all three consoles that managed to take advantage of each of their strengths. i know some of the most technically impressive games for the n64 have been posted above, but can anybody give me a lowdown on any technically impressive games seen on both the ps1 and saturn?

>> No.2562324

>>2562308
>inb4 weeaboo Squareshit dickriders

>> No.2562349

>>2562308
I know there was Spyro showing off it's ability to pull of vast levels (like SM64 & BK) via LODs and stuff. There was also Crash with its detailed levels being pulled off via aggressive occlusion culling and streaming off the disc.

>> No.2562352

Indy and the Infernal Machine predicts Crystal Skull in that it's set after WWII and features the Soviets as the villains instead of Nazis as the dev team felt tired of Nazis being used in every IJ movie/game. The game was designed originally for PCs and later ported to the N64. The dev team at first wanted to put on on the PS1, but then rejected that idea.

>> No.2562359

>>2562349
I agree. Spyro was an impressively expansive game series considering the PS1 could not stream data like the N64.

>> No.2562362

>>2562349
Crash 3 especially impresses - the Naughty Dog team spoke of using some insane programming tricks that shouldn't have worked at all, but somehow they did.

>> No.2562434

>>2558393
N64 shovelware that licensed Factor 5's speech codec, meaning that significant coin was involved.

>> No.2562439
File: 44 KB, 239x307, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2562439

>>2561797
Turok 3 says Hi. Conker says Hi. Perfect Dark says Hi. For crying out loud, GoldenEye was a game coded on pre-release N64 dev kits using modded Saturn controllers. The game is remarkable tech-wise, but in no way pushes the N64 artistically.

>> No.2562453

>>2561797
They're both roughly the same level of detail tbh.

>> No.2562460

I bet you there's nothing on the N64 that looks as gorgeous as Final Fantasy IX.

>> No.2562469

Hiroshi Yamauchi reputedly said that he wanted a console that was really hard to develop for because he couldn't stand all the shovelware on the Famicom and Super Famicom.

>> No.2562473

>>2562469
But the Saturn programming was way harder, wasn't it?

>> No.2562474

>>2558372
The hardware was 10-years-old and Taiwanese manufacturers couldn't care less who they sold their chips to.
>>2558425
After it was hacked to allow pirated games.

>> No.2562483

>>2561454
The Dreamcast wasn't as powerful, but somehow games ran at a higher resolution.

>> No.2562486

>>2562242

>>2562242

Compare three arcade games that came out the same year

Sega's WaveRunner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vnqlNnq-qo

Namco's Aqua Jet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZVk7sdEU0

Konami's Jet Wave/Wave Shark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZug9_DDFMI

None of them even come close to replicating the kind of water physics Wave Race 64 was pulling off. It was in a completely different league than the competition.

>> No.2562492

>>2562460

You mean the pre-rendered backgrounds or the actual character models?

>> No.2562505

>>2562473
If you tried to use both CPUs, it was pretty difficult however a lot of games only used one of them. The Saturn was very much like the N64 in that the ambitious design was difficult and expensive to produce with mid-90s manufacturing technology.

>> No.2562507
File: 421 KB, 1600x1200, 5th gen specs.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2562507

>> No.2562508

>>2562469
Relatively speaking, the SNES had a lower amount of shovelware than the NES, which was swimming in it. On the other hand, the SNES's library had fewer memorable games in total. It was really the ultimate B-game console. Many fair-to-good games, but not many outstanding ones aside from Squaresoft's efforts.

>> No.2562509

>>2555879
That's because the driving force behind their consoles is amazing third party support. Even multiplat publishers like EA had given PS2 the best, definitive version (sometimes).

>> No.2562515

>go to Electronics Boutique circa 1999
>see several shelves full of PS1 games
>one little rack of N64 carts

I remember.

>> No.2562516
File: 428 B, 46x42, DW3_monster_NES_Deranger.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2562516

It's kind of sad that this is /vr/'s hot topic thread right now.

>> No.2562518
File: 14 KB, 250x238, 1437323098621.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2562518

>>2562515
try being a Saturn fan m8

>> No.2562534

>>2562518
If this were '99, the Saturn was already history and it was Dreamcast time.

>> No.2562547

>>2562439
Tbh, Turok 3 has one of the best "realistic human" character models I've seen out of a 5th gen game, mostly because said character models actually emote in cutscenes. The only other games I recall that have this aspect are the Fear Effect games.

>>2562460
But FFIX isn't even the best looking game on its console. There are plenty of games on both the N64 and PS1 that are leagues above it graphically.

>> No.2562578

>>2562178
The Famicom actually had less accessible memory for games than the C64 or even older machines like the Atari 800, only 32k of program ROM and 8k of character ROM. Of course, this wasn't a problem because you could bank switch data on the fly, also Famicom games are less code-dense than C64 games.

>> No.2562581

>>2561831
First video isn't as pretty as Ridge Racer R4. Like, period. Might be mere style, but it's just not as pretty. Lighting is impressive though.
Conker definitely does look a bit better than any PS1 game, there's a LOT of detail in the characters and most of the environments. MUCH nicer texturing than I see in most N64 games.
Perfect Dark runs at a hilariously low framerate when anything is happening (which is a shame, because it is honestly VERY good looking).

The N64 spent time on expensive render quality calculations at a time when what people wanted was more environment detail, more enemies on screen, less choppiness, etc. These are mostly better, but not head and shoulders better, and aren't the norm.

>>2562024
>R4
>looks bad
>because no texture filtering

Texture filtering removes detail from low resolution textures.

>>2561990
they struggled because the PS2 is a weird design

>>2561454
PS2's overall faster, but harder to work with. DC was a very straightforward design with a featureful GPU.

>>2561893
Not in 1996. Consumer grade 3D cards started existing in '95. They didn't get good for quite a while.

>>2561904
It's noticeable. It's not distracting (depending on the game), but if you know it's there, you WILL see it.

>>2562016
I dunno if Namco really tried in RR64. Namco pretty much was THE face of the Playstation. SLUS-00001 is fucking Air Combat. Namco probably had the most experience with the PS1 out of everyone, and almost all of their arcade hardware became based on Playstations.

>>2562209
>640x480 PS1 games
the only one I can think of is iS:Internal Section
most PS1 games "high-res" mode was 512x224 or something similar, occasionally you'd get something like 320x448

>> No.2562591

>>2562581
Even the SNES had a 480i mode, but the only games to use it for anything but static menu screens were RPM Racing and Ranma 1/2: Chounai Gekitou Hen.

>> No.2562595

>>2562581
>Namco pretty much was THE face of the Playstation

>inb4 Squarefags argue with you

>> No.2562598

>>2562581
>Perfect Dark runs at a hilariously low framerate when anything is happening (which is a shame, because it is honestly VERY good looking)

As mentioned above, PD was one of the earliest games developed for the N64. It's not a very good example of the console's capabilities.

>> No.2562601

>>2561990
>It's as Miyamoto said

That's a real objective, non-biased source.

>> No.2562605

>>2562598
Whoops, I had it confused with Goldeneye. Nvm.

>> No.2562609

>>2562595
Namco and Square were both the face of the PS1. Let's agree on that.

>> No.2562619

Namco were prolific guys, that's for sure. They made around 50 (!) Famicom games, although only a few of them were released outside of Japan.

>> No.2562654

Too bad N64 games were so goddamn expensive - some of them cost up to $70. It had the particular bad luck to come out in the late 90s during a period of high memory prices.

>> No.2562953

>>2555717
I'd say 64 was best for sports since multiplayer is the most important aspect for old school sports games.

>> No.2562969

>>2562654
64MB is tight. Granted, the actual game code on 5th gen games wasn't that big (most PS1 games had around 30MB of code) but all the graphics and sound data were extremely hard to shoehorn into that space. They had to rely on tons of compression which slowed things down. The N64 did have hardware decompression to be sure while the PS1 did not, however it wasn't really needed when you had a 650MB disc.

>> No.2562978

Once Squaresoft announced that they were going to develop for the PS1, it was lights out for the N64, especially in the home market of Japan.

>> No.2563087

>>2562581
>First video isn't as pretty as Ridge Racer R4. Like, period. Might be mere style, but it's just not as pretty. Lighting is impressive though.
It's stylistically a lot worse than Ridge Racer R4, I think that's pretty obvious, looks dull and generic in comparison. The music is pretty trash too compared to the cool beats from Namco's game.

On a technical level, it easily surpasses R4 though. R4 only has 1 opponent car at a time. World Driver Championship can do 7, and each World Driver Championship car has more polygons than the R4 cars.

>Texture filtering removes detail from low resolution textures.
It doesn't. The difference between nearest neighbor and bilinear filtering is only that the former draws the texel nearest to the pixel, and the latter averages nearby texels to the pixels.

If anything, bilinear is slightly more accurate, since more information from the source texture is processed.

>> No.2563102

>>2562969
>The N64 did have hardware decompression to be sure while the PS1 did not
You've got it backwards. the PS1 has a built-in MJPEG and H.261 video decoding, while the N64 has no built-in decoding. The advantage of the N64 is that its CPU is three times faster than the one on the PS1, so it can decode stuff in software (which also means it can be programmed to work with different and newer codecs).

>> No.2563154

>>2562483
I'm sure having 8MB of VRAM helped.

>> No.2563194
File: 52 KB, 900x563, Devil Stage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2563194

>>2555749
This needs the PS1 Spiderman games, Medal of Honor, Tekken 1+2, and Bushido Blade 1+2 added.

The Doom port has a nice soundtrack

>> No.2563212

>>2562547
Konami tried to experiment advanced facial animations on MGS: VR Missions, and yes I know it's basically a tech demo, but it is a 5th gen game.

>> No.2563214 [DELETED] 

>>2555717

except N64 was revolutionary

the other two were full of cancer that has destroyed the industry.

>> No.2563218

>>2563214
>>>/v/

>> No.2563219 [DELETED] 

>>2555772

what's with N64 hate? It's like all this jelly coming over from inferior PS1 games which couldn't even display 3D without wobbling or being demo tier games at best.

>> No.2563220

>>2563214
0/10, need more effort and pick and non-shit console.

>> No.2563227

>>2563214
>>2563219
see
>>2563218

>> No.2563228 [DELETED] 

>>2563218
>>2563220

you cockgobblers need to get your anuses relaxed

>> No.2563242 [DELETED] 

>>2563228
you need some soap for that dirty mouth of yours young man

>> No.2563445

>>2562264
How can no one do something as good now? Even in the last Sonic kart the boat parts sucked hard

>> No.2563448

>>2562508
The NES didn't have that much shovelwares. Just games that aged badly

>> No.2563456

>>2562581
Namco and Square were basically Sony's second party for ps1. Sony bought tons of exclusivity deals. I'm pretty sure the RR on N64 was outsourced

>> No.2563746 [DELETED] 
File: 160 KB, 500x282, oh you.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2563746

>>2563214
>the other two were full of cancer that has destroyed the industry.

Why are nintoddlers so hilarious?

>> No.2563794 [DELETED] 

>>2563746
>samefagging

So this is what sonyggers do when they get told?

>> No.2563965

>>2563746
>Why are nintoddlers so hilarious?
>>2563746
>So this is what sonyggers do when they get told?

please go back to /v/, your kind isn't welcome here

>> No.2565046
File: 47 KB, 512x512, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2565046

>>2563087
>R4
>one opponent car at a time

Wait, have you ever played R4?
the Ridge Racer Turbo bonus disc included with it has only 1 opponent car (but runs at 480i, renders 3D at 320x224, and keeps a solid 60fps except around the first corner where the traffic cones you can knock over are (where it'll sometimes slow down) -- was pretty much the result of Namco's research into seeing how much they'd need to cut things back if they wanted to target 60fps with textured Gouraud shaded polygons on the PS1)

but R4 itself has 7 opponents in a race
R4's AI does make it hard to notice though: cars mostly follow strict paths and stay spaced out, but you can totally get all of the opponent cars on the screen at once

>>2562605
yeah, I was about to say, PD came out in 2000

>>2562654
So did some Genesis games. IIRC, Sonic 3 originally retailed for $70 (which is part of the reason why it was split, would have been $90 or so like Phantasy Star 4 -- although Sega also got to charge people another $60 or so for S&K when that came out).

>>2563087
>If anything, bilinear is slightly more accurate, since more information from the source texture is processed.
It's ideal when downsampling. When upsampling, the importance of clean edges makes it worse for low resolution textures -- textures outright cannot have nice, sharp lines whatsoever.
High resolution textures can provide cleaner edges through sheer resolution, and the blending is able to make the texture not look rough.
pic is a simulated example of what I'm getting at, left would be the blending between texels on a (very) low-res texture, right would be blending on a much higher resolution one

>> No.2565047

>>2563448
>aged badly
/v/ is <-- that way, kid.

>> No.2565368
File: 524 KB, 1280x982, 1373930604389.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2565368

>>2565046
>R4's AI does make it hard to notice though: cars mostly follow strict paths and stay spaced out, but you can totally get all of the opponent cars on the screen at once
This is what I mean about only one opponent car. I've never seen anything different. I've never been able to reproduce all opponent cars on one screen. To me it seemed as if the AI had been deliberately programmed to keep this from happening. How exactly do you get them all on screen at once, because I've got my copy of R4 right here and I'd like to try it.

> textures outright cannot have nice, sharp lines whatsoever.
You're only describing a (fairly obvious I should add) phenomena with low-resolution textures in general. The same is true in reverse. Without filtering, a low resolution image contains too many high-frequency contrasts.

>> No.2565487

>>2555717
I'd say that actually gives them a better reason to argue about because you have different people with different tastes trying to convince each other. I don't know how console wars for modern consoles exist when it's all the same shit just with maybe a different screen resolution for a few games.

>> No.2565492

>>2555749
>listing Capcom and SNK fighters

The PS1 ports for those were a fucking joke compared to their Saturn and Dreamcast counterparts.

>> No.2566178
File: 80 KB, 1280x657, afailure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2566178

>>2556021
>>2556034
>>2556057
Ignore these, I posted the wrong image.

>> No.2566193

>>2555748

I'm a big PS1 fan and I completely agree with you.

>>2555749

God this list is so incomplete.

>> No.2566570

>>2562024
It's actually amazing you are the first person here to defend texture filtering for that generation.

>> No.2566595
File: 453 KB, 1200x560, 1200px-3DO-FZ1-Console-Set.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2566595

>>2566178
Well...

>> No.2566602

>>2555717
>What is even the point of 5th generation console wars?
Console wars were a marketing scheme, no one but 8 year olds cared, you had a N64 you played the games and you went with your neighborhood who had a PS1 and the other way around.

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