Best retro doom game

[Anonymous No.2550015]

Let's settle this: http://strawpoll.me/4969650

Also, from best to worst, where would you rank them?

[Anonymous No.2550080]

Ultimate>2>Final>64

[Anonymous No.2550096]

>>2550015
64 > 2 > Ultimate > Final

[Anonymous No.2550859]

Ultimate > 64 > 2 > Final

[Anonymous No.2550861]

2>Final>Ultimate>64

[Anonymous No.2550893]

Ultimate followed by Final and then 2. 64 is just crap.

[Anonymous No.2550909]

>>2550015
Ultimate>64>2>Final

Final almost shouldn't even count since it's basically just more Doom 2 levels.

[Anonymous No.2552289]

>>2550015
OP here, going to try and run through Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 on nightmare! without save scumming, probably with pistol starts or with whatever I carry over from previous level, but only saving at start of each map.

Are there any maps that will be essentially impossible unless you're a speedrunner? I'm reasonably skilled but not great by any means.

I suspect Doom episode 1 will be tougher than 2 and 3 due to hitscanners. God knows about Doom 2 chaingunners. Maps like the end of episode 2 (cyberdemon fight) will be quite easy I imagine.

Any hints/tips or advice on which levels will be relatively tough/easy in both games very welcome.

[Anonymous No.2552468]

>>2552289
Doom 1, episode 1 isn't so bad because many of the levels have secret after secret of really good items. It's the only nightmare episode I've completed.

Someone else would be better qualified to identify ridiculous nightmare levels, but the first few maps of episode 4 would probably qualify. Plutonia would also be ridiculous. There's one really famous map in TNT Evilution that was the last (?) map to be completed on nightmare.

[Anonymous No.2552784]

>>2552468
Well, I looked around and found the world record speed run for Doom 2. The fucking guy runs it in a single segment….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcVkU19dllw

[Anonymous No.2553279]

>>2552784
Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.2553639]

If Final Doom (Plutonia) isn't your number 1 out of the originals in 2015 you should seriously kill yourself.

Final > II > UD > 64

eat shit doom babies

[Anonymous No.2553645]

>>2550909
>Final almost shouldn't even count since it's basically just more Doom 2 levels.
you could not be more wrong
christ youre a fucking idiot

[Anonymous No.2553668]

>>2553639
>>2553645
/v/ pls go

[Anonymous No.2553957]

>>2553645
Pfft. No new monsters, weapons, items or gameplay mechanics, a smattering of new textures, hell, one of the wads just recycles Doom and Doom 2 music.

It's a fan made megawad at best. It's a Doom 2 map pack.

I would love to hear your reasoning as to why it isn't.

[Anonymous No.2553982]

>>2553957
It is a fanmade megawad. iD just commercialised it.

[Anonymous No.2554000]

Chex Quest is the best Doom game.

[Anonymous No.2554021]

>>2553639
You're just wrong, Doom 2 is clearly superior to any other dooms.

[Anonymous No.2554024]

>>2553957
it completely transcends doom 2's level design, as well as the other original wads. it has the best gameplay of the original wads by far and was the first one to show what the doom formula was truly capable of. you don't understand this because you are an idiot.

>It's a fan made megawad at best. It's a Doom 2 map pack.
Yeah that's what it was you stupid tryhard doom baby, and it takes nothing away from it, just like fan made megawads a la Scythe et al are far superior to the original games, plutonia included. do you think that because alien vendetta is a doom 2 fan made map pack it's 'basically just more Doom 2 levels'?

go back to the circlejerk general and do more 'research' there faggot, your 'gamer cred' is weak. better yet just go back to halo already and stop shitting the board up.

[Anonymous No.2554026]

>>2554021
haha. you're a funny kid I'll give you that.

[Anonymous No.2554036]

>>2554024
>Plutonia
>anything resembling good level design.

Please seek immediate medical attention, you appear to be experiencing a catastrophic brain haemorrhage.

[Anonymous No.2554038]

>>2554036
>doom babies

[Anonymous No.2554503]

Ultimate/Doom, Doom2, Master Levels, Doom64

[Anonymous No.2554545]

2 > Ultimate > 64 > Plutonia > TNT > Master Levels

[Anonymous No.2554547]

2 > Ultimate > Plutonia > 64 > TNT > Master Levels

[Anonymous No.2554571]

>>2553645
>you could not be more wrong

You do know it says this on the box, right?
>Two new, 32-level Doom II Episodes

[Anonymous No.2554574]

>>2554036
>hating Plutonia

Too hard for you?

[Anonymous No.2554578]

Plutonia > Doom = TNT > Doom 64 > Doom 2

[Anonymous No.2554583]

>>2554036
>Thinks plutonia is bad
Plutonia was good enough to be a huge influence on many mappers, and even have two unofficial fanmade sequels.

[Anonymous No.2554589]

>>2552468
>Plutonia would also be ridiculous.

IIRC, It took the speedrunning community 19 years to finally make a successful non-TAS Nightmare Speedrun. Calling it ridiculous on nightmare is an understatement.

[Anonymous No.2554593]

>>2554589
Full game Nightmare speedrun, I mean.

[Anonymous No.2554596]

1 > 2 > Final > 64 > pretty much any other game in existence

[Anonymous No.2554637]

>>2554021
Eh, Doom 2 was pretty mediocre overall. The first 10 or so maps are decent, but after that, it becomes very hit and miss.

Final Doom has its duds, but Its far more consistently fun.

[Anonymous No.2554704]

I gave up on Final Doom after that fucking level where it puts you in a rat maze with a hundred arch-viles

[Anonymous No.2554727]

>>2554704
seriously? kek. why are you so bad at the vidya brah?

[Anonymous No.2554752]

>>2554637
Map design was shit. Especially that one level they put a big fucking arrow on the ground to tell you where to go, but the added monsters made combat more fun

[Anonymous No.2555291]

>>2550015
Plutonia<Ultimate<TNT<<<<<2

[Anonymous No.2555947]

>>2550015
>Doom 2 ranked so high
>Final Doom ranked so low

/vr/ confirmed for shit taste.

[Anonymous No.2555956]

>>2555947
Seems about right. I expected Final and 64 to get around the same amount of votes.

[Anonymous No.2555967]

Doom, then Final. Doom 2 and 64 are tedious.

[Anonymous No.2555978]

Maps I hate

Doom
>E2M9
>E3M1
>E3M2
>E3M6
>E3M7
>E3M8
>E3M9

Doom II
>MAP09
>MAP13
>MAP16
>MAP21
>MAP23
>MAP24
>MAP30
>MAP31
>MAP32

TNT
>MAP07
>MAP22
>MAP24

Plutonia
>MAP11

Final Doom wins for me. Never played 64 all that much.

[Anonymous No.2556090]

>>2550015
Ultimate had better levels.

Doom II has the SS.

Doom 64 was a different but amazing Doom game compared to the original two games.

Final Doom is definitely the weakest but still good.

[Anonymous No.2556151]

>>2556090
>Final Doom is definitely the weakest

Its really not, though. The levels were far better designed than Doom 2, and actually uses the doom 2 enemies more often and in more interesting ways.

[Anonymous No.2556185]

>so many casuals that couldn't beat final doom and so they hate it
I thought you kids were good at video games.

[Anonymous No.2556198]

>>2556185
You really like Final Doom, eh?

[Anonymous No.2556216]

>>2554704
There were only 18 arch-viles. And 4 of them aren't even in the maze.

[Anonymous No.2556372]

>>2555947
Indeed... but I always knew this when it comes to Doom. Pretty shitty community we have here for the game unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.2556383]

>>2556185
>I thought you kids were good at video games.
No lol. These guys are pretty horrible. I'm thinking about starting a screenshot collection macro when anyone says something relating to how much they suck at this game. Stuff like >>2554704 for example. I've read so much shit over the years here. I remember one retard claiming Doom was 'cheap' on UV and that he only plays on HMP. How bad do you even have to be? These kind of comments aren't even a one-off; the general is loaded with them.

[Anonymous No.2557608]

Ultimate Doom is great.

Doom 2 is better. Yeah the levels are more inconsistent, there's a lot of bad gimmick stages and some of them are just sloppily designed, but the new enemies and super shotgun are huge additions and elevate the formula far beyond Doom 1. Even if Doom 1 were made entirely of levels as good as episode 4 mission 2 and 6 it would still be a lesser game than Doom 2 as-is.

TNT Evilution is just Doom 2 but with levels that are (mostly) even worse. Plutonia is Doom 2 but with consistently fantastic levels so naturally it's the best Doom. (There are fan-made levels that are as good or better than Plutonia but as far as official releases go it's as good as it gets.)

I haven't played Doom 64. Maybe someday.

[Anonymous No.2557786]

ULT>64>2

honestly, the only improvements doom 2 has over ult are the ssg and archviles.
2's maps are far too erratic and mangled, many of them just seem plain lazy.

[Anonymous No.2557940]

>>2557608
>levels as good as episode 4 mission 2
I never understood the praise for that level. Can you explain?

[Anonymous No.2558109]

>>2557608
>TNT Evilution is just Doom 2 but with levels that are (mostly) even worse

But thats wrong. TNT was consistently good for the first 20 maps, and only became hit and miss in the final 10. And even then none of the misses are even as bad as Doom 2's Nirvana or Chasm.

Doom 2 was hit and miss straight after the first story intermission screen.

[Anonymous No.2558112]

>>2553645
It was literally a map pack for Doom 2 that got a standalone retail release.

[Anonymous No.2558116]

>>2554024
I'm really confused about whether you're mad at him for calling Plutonia a map pack or that he likes Doom. Your post is going all over the place.

[Anonymous No.2558140]

Plutonia > Doom = TNT > Ultimate > Doom 64 > Doom 2

[Anonymous No.2558221]

Plutonia does have a weak start unfortunately, but besides maps 1-3, it is an incredible set of maps.

TNT on the other hand is butts aside from the start.

[Anonymous No.2558249]

I only said Doom II because of the double barreled shotgun, it's what I use most of the game, also Doom II it's the base of most mods.

[Anonymous No.2558257]

>>2558249
>counting mods

[Anonymous No.2558274]

>>2558221
>TNT on the other hand is butts

Outside of Prison (which IMO isnt even as bad as people make it out to be) and Metal, TNT was great for the first two thirds. Even the final third has some good maps like Ballistyx, Heck, and River Styx.

I do agree that Plutonia is overall better, though.

[Anonymous No.2558554]

>>2558112
>>2554024
eat shit

[Anonymous No.2559737]

>>2557940
It's a (relatively) long and challenging level that puts you in a variety of interesting battles and forces you to carefully manage your health and ammo. I think it's probably the second most satisfying level in the game to learn from a pistol start, after e4m6. (But it's not as good as Doom 2 mission 29.)

>>2558109
So to be clear, I don't dislike TNT at all really. I think it's more hit-or-miss than Doom 2 though - but I don't think Nirvana or Chasm are bad maps. The only map in any of the IWADs I think is straight-up bad is Habitat from TNT. I also think the strongest bit of TNT is the last six maps or so.

[Anonymous No.2559883]

>>2558554
You can try to hype it up as much as you want but it's still a fan made map pack that got a retail release. You even admit it in your fucking post and end up devaluing the map pack anyway by listing a bunch of free great alternatives.

[Anonymous No.2559994]

>>2559883
nah, my claim is Plutonia is far superior to the original wads and it is.

that guy's argument was that plutonia is somehow inferior because it's a map pack, and I pointed out that later fan made map packs transcended all the originals, plutonia included, just the same as plutonia transcended the originals. just because it's a 'map pack' doesn't mean it's automatically inferior and that's a fucking retarded argument.

so yeah, keep eating shit

[Anonymous No.2560001]

>>2559994
People consider Plutonia inferior because it brought nothing new to the table. I don't think anyone is shitting on the actual map design to Plutonia they just don't feel that it stacks up to the originals because it doesn't add much to it.

[Anonymous No.2560014]

>>2560001
>because it doesn't add much to it.
lol pleb

[Anonymous No.2560853]

>>2560001
My God. The /vr/ Doom 'community' is truly a joke.

[Anonymous No.2560936]

>>2559737
>I think it's more hit-or-miss than Doom 2 though - but I don't think Nirvana or Chasm are bad maps.

If you don't think Nirvana of all things is bad, then I find it even harder to believe that you find TNT more hit and miss.

[Anonymous No.2560961]

2>Ultimate>64

Ultimate would be better than 2 if it had SSG and new monsters.

[Anonymous No.2561006]

>>2560853
Yeah it's a huge joke to expect something you paid for to actually add more to the game than just maps.

[Anonymous No.2561054]

>>2561006
That's how the original Doom worked, the first episode was free and you had to pay for the rest of the episodes.

[Anonymous No.2561056]

>>2561006
To be fair, Doom 2 hardly used its "new" enemies outside of a few levels. Final Doom uses them to their fullest potential, especially in Plutonia.

[Anonymous No.2561061]

Why did so many plebs pick Doom 2. Final Doom is literally just Doom 2 but with good level design.

Doom 2 was fucking shit.

Final > 64 > Ultimate > 2

[Anonymous No.2561125]

>>2561056
Yeah this. With the exception of the Chaingunner, hardly anything is used much. First 6 levels, I can understand, but its pretty boring when its like this for most of the game.

Levels with 60+ monsters but less than 15 Doom 2 monsters (minus chaingunner, and not counting first 6 levels)
>O' of Destruction
>Downtown
>The Inmost Dens
>Gotcha!
>Bloodfalls
>The Abandoned Mines

Levels with 120+ monsters but less than 30 Doom 2 monsters (minus chaingunner, and not counting first 6 levels)
>Tricks And Traps
>The Pit
>Refueling Base
>Industrial Zone
>Tenements
>The Courtyard
>The Citadel
>Nirvana
>The Chasm

[Anonymous No.2561669]

>>2561125
Compare this to Plutonia where a fair chunk of levels have the Doom 2 monsters in the majority.

Though unfortunately with your criteria, TNT ends up being not much different to Doom 2 in terms of the usage of D2 Monsters that aren't chaingunners. Doom 2 has 7 maps that meet such requirements, and TNT has 8. Though that said, TNT has only 2 maps that don't use any d2 monsters besides the chaingunner, where as Doom 2 has 6 (4 if you're excluding Wolfenstein/Grosse)

[Anonymous No.2561803]

>>2550015
OP here, what's the best sourceport to use in terms of functionality/compatibility with mods?

[Anonymous No.2561937]

Personally I think Doom 2 is better than Evilution or Plutonia. It starts off strong and eventually becomes hit or miss, but Final Doom is hit or miss the whole way through. Final Doom is still fantastic, but it feels more experimental than Doom 2.

Doom 64 is in a way more of a sequel to Doom 1 than 2 was. It has less Doom 2 enemies and the level designer is usually smaller and tighter, just like the first one. Overall I would say 1>64>2>Final, but the difference in quality between them isn't that great.

[Anonymous No.2561968]

As much as I enjoy all the new things Doom 2 brings to the game, Ultimate Doom still takes the cake for better looking levels and more memorable music tracks.

[Anonymous No.2563118]

Ultimate > Final > Doom2.
Never played 64, except for a few maps of the TC.

Final may not bring much new to the table but it's twice the size of Doom2 and has better overall design.

[Anonymous No.2563134]

>>2552784

That's absolutely bonkers. I got dizzy just watching.

[Anonymous No.2563562]

>>2563118
>Final may not bring much new to the table
Correct

> it's twice the size of Doom2
So what? There is 1,000x the amount of free content for Doom now.

>has better overall design.
No. Quality is consistently worse.

>>2563134
The fact that it's nightmare mode...I just can't believe it.

[Anonymous No.2563876]

>>2563562
>No. Quality is consistently worse.

Doom 2, I enjoy McGee's and Romero's maps, but Sandy Petersen mostly contributed crap. The only maps of his I enjoy coming back to are map01, map08, map18, and map27.
TNT isn't perfect, and even has the worst map out of the iwads (map22), but It has nowhere near the quantity of weak maps Doom 2 had. It also has the best Secret levels out of the iwads.
Plutonia is fun times all around. Only map I didn't enjoy at all was map11. I can definitely see why its popular among mappers.

[Anonymous No.2563886]

>>2552784
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUBUYWIZUpE

[Anonymous No.2564792]

Is Final Doom worth 2.49€ on Steam
I mean, Scythe was free.

[Anonymous No.2564798]

>>2564792
(forgot to say I've never played final doom)

[Anonymous No.2565240]

>>2564792
Plutonia is definitely worth it, and TNT isnt too bad either. And megawads like Plutonia 2, and Plutonia Revisited require Plutonia.

[Anonymous No.2565362]

>>2564792
http://theisozone.com/downloads/pc/windows-games/final-doom-3/

[Anonymous No.2565373]

How come 64 isn't getting much love? The levels on it are the most memorable. The transition from the sterile bases to the completely bizarre and organic environments of the Hell levels with the threatening music, weird level layouts, artifacts with screaming faces, otherworldly roars from monsters like the Baron, along with a huge texture swap create an atmospherical transition that for its time was only matched by Half-Life 1 when you first go into Xen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0q-Y2r7YuQ

[Anonymous No.2565485]

Just bought the complete pack. Never really played Doom 2 growing up. What's the most "canon" way to play it? Currently just using GZDoom in 4:3 with no mouse look/jumping etc.

[Anonymous No.2565508]

>>2565485
Most people use PrBoom+ or GlBoom for purist gameplay that enables limit removing maps. Chocolate Doom is a source port that emulates vanilla behavior down to every quirk and bug.

Zdoom however is what you wanna go for if you want to get the most out of modding it.

[Anonymous No.2567896]

>>2565373
I think 64 is pretty cool. But the lack of chaingunners, revenants, and arch-viles bring it down for me.

[Anonymous No.2567904]

how can anyone think doom 2 is better than doom 64 if they've played both?

ultimate>64>final>doom 2

[Anonymous No.2567908]

>>2565485
>Currently just using GZDoom in 4:3 with no mouse look/jumping etc.
GZDoom looks like pants right out of the box. There are a lot of default graphical settings that are absolutely retarded and make the game uglier.

Gonfigured right it's the top of the line for graphics and features for mods, but you should start out playing at least the first three original episodes of Ultimate Doom under chocolate doom for the authentic baseline.

[Anonymous No.2567917]

>>2561937
>Final Doom is still fantastic, but it feels more experimental than Doom 2.

Probably some maps I forgot, but....

Doom 2
The Crusher: Spider Mastermind is set up to be crushed by the Crusher.
Tricks and Traps: 8 doors, each lead to their own tricks and traps
Gotcha!: Cyberdemon and Mastermind are positioned next to eachother to easily infight.
Barrels o' Fun: Barrels everywhere
The Chasm: Catwalks everywhere

TNT
Last Call: The platform maze

Plutonia
Hunted: Maze full of Arch-viles
Cyberden: Four Cyberdemons are caged up and are released as you progress.
Go 2 it: Remake of Entryway with Slaughter gameplay

[Anonymous No.2567918]

>>2561803
GZDoom.
Check out the Projects page on the zdoom forums, and the "cacowards" on doomworld.

>>2567908
*configured

[Anonymous No.2567929]

Speaking of Doom ports, I just picked up Doom on the Xbox 360 because of the Quakecon sale. I'm honestly surprised how well they made it, no seeming input lag with vsync on, controls are very fluid with a pad and there's local and online co-op/deathmatch and leaderboards. Of course it doesn't top running Doom on a proper source port and keyboard/mouse but it's miles better than what you get with Dosbox on Steam and it's also very easy to get multiplayer action going on.

[Anonymous No.2567945]

>>2567929
To be fair to steam, you can configure the files to run a source port or ZDL instead of dosbox, simply by renaming the source port/ZDL to dosbox.exe.

[Anonymous No.2567981]

>>2567945

I do know that, I was just implying what you get as a default Dosbox configuration.

[Anonymous No.2567995]

>>2567904

I think most people like it for the content like enemies that it brings for modding rather than the actual plain vanilla game.

>>2567896

quality > quantity

[Anonymous No.2568062]

>>2567995
>quality > quantity

I'm not disappointed that there's less enemies. I'm disappointed that its missing some of the more interesting enemies.

[nash No.2568093]

I picked Doom II, really fun playing splitscreen on PS3

[Anonymous No.2568145]

>>2568093
if you're the nash I think you are, thanks for restoring the db links

[Anonymous No.2568739]

>>2554547
what's wrong with master levels
also sorry for being ignorant but isn't it made by some of the original level designers too?

[Anonymous No.2568742]

>>2555978
>hating map9
b-but muh music

[Anonymous No.2568823]

>>2568739
>what's wrong with master levels
Its a collection of single maps of varying quality.
Bad maps are from Christen Klie
Decent maps are from John Anderson, Tom Mustaine, and Tim Willits
Good maps are from Jim Flynn, and Sverre Andre Kvernmo

>isn't it made by some of the original level designers too?
Not really. Tim Willits and John Anderson did levels in Thy Flesh Consumed, but that was it.

[Anonymous No.2568830]

>>2568742
Don't worry. Carribean, one of my favourite maps from TNT uses the same music.

[Anonymous No.2568840]

>>2568830
Caribbean*

[Anonymous No.2568868]

>>2550909
Yeah, and Doom II is just more Doom maps with a few new monsters and a bigger shotgun.

[Anonymous No.2568951]

>>2568830
oh I never even realized it because it's a secret level
>>2568823
oh my I had to look back what levels there were and I gotta say I remembered wrong
I thought there was this one level that was mostly green with lots of detail to the terrain elevation and one level where there was a mastermind in a tinyish room on a slightly elevated platform
I cannot remember what the wad was and it was definitely not that, maybe tnt or plutonia

speaking of level design what makes a level comfy?
I think one of the things is that you get a sense of place
what I like to see in a level is a place that I can easily recognize and tell exactly where I am (except if it's a mindfuck level)
you can manage this by creating a place you can see from almost every bit of the level, like a central point that you circle around or an out doors area of sorts
are there any wads with levels that do this a lot?
or even wads with levels that make it so you can see the past level you were in (for example with that central point) but you never enter it again?

[Anonymous No.2569015]

>>2568868
>Yeah, and Doom II is just more Doom maps with a few new monsters and a bigger shotgun.
And much worse level design. The monsters are really cool tho

[Anonymous No.2569028]

>>2568868
>speaking of level design what makes a level comfy?
Recognizable landmarks like you said, interconnectedness, levels with architecture that changes and opens up (like e1m3), and a cohesive theme

[Anonymous No.2569131]

>tfw playing DOOM64 and the cacodemons shoot at a slightly slower pace than the PC DOOM and you dodge straight in to the fireballs everytime
It isn't just me, is it?

[Anonymous No.2569407]

>>2569131
Wait until you fight the Cyberdemon in that. In 64 the 3rd rocket actually shoots where you're going. Plus said rockets are faster.

[Anonymous No.2569481]

PSX Doom > 64

[Anonymous No.2569650]

>>2569481
>port
>better than a brand new game

[Anonymous No.2570651]

>>2569650
>D-Doom 64's levels are original, s-so they're automatically good and immune to criticism!

No.

[Anonymous No.2571002]

>>2570651
>Actually preferring a game with watered down versions of the PC levels, and worse graphics.

And no, the colored lighting, ambient music, and different sounds don't suddenly make it good. These effects worked far better in Doom 64 since it had the graphics to actually work in their favor. In PSX Doom, they were largely out of place.

Honestly, the PSX version is overrated trash, that's only liked by people who grew up with it first.

[Anonymous No.2571054]

>>2571002
>overrated trash

Doom 64 in a nutshell.

[Anonymous No.2571135]

>>2567896
They are the coolest monster, but also the most annoying to deal.

[Anonymous No.2571141]

>>2571054
Hey, I think 64 is overrated too. But only people with down syndrome actually believe the PSX version is better.

[Anonymous No.2571167]

>>2571141
the PS1 version is fantastic because of the superior soundtrack and the lighting effects.

and I grew up playing it on PC. same with most of my friends, all of whom prefer the PS1 version.

the music and the lighting make it an experience. try playing it with the lights off at night, it's fucking crazy.

[Anonymous No.2571170]

>>2571141
I'd rather have down syndrome than play Doom 64 again.

[Anonymous No.2571179]

>>2571167
The original Doom artsyle and the PS1/64 audio/music don't mix.

[Anonymous No.2571187]

>>2571179
Well, that's your opinion, and it's in the minority.

[Anonymous No.2571194]

>>2571187
>and it's in the minority
How presumptuous of you.

[Anonymous No.2571196]

>>2571167
>superior soundtrack
>the lighting effects.

But unlike PSX Doom, These actually worked in 64. And Superior is not what I'd describe the soundtrack.

[Anonymous No.2571197]

>>2571187
>and it's in the minority.
>PSXfags actually believe this

[Anonymous No.2571204]

>>2571187
Lolwut.

Dook64 music a shit.

[Anonymous No.2571221]

>>2571187
>it's in the minority.

You're kidding right?

[Anonymous No.2571614]

Isn't Plutonia the one with all the chaingunner surprise buttsecks

>git gud

No I refuse

[Anonymous No.2571647]

>>2571614
I always felt TNT was the bigger offender when it came to hitscanners.

TNT hitscanner counts
Zombiemen - 443
Shotgunners - 1041
Chaingunners - 601

Pluitonia hitscanner counts
Zombiemen - 86
Shotgunners - 315
Chaingunnrs - 704

So while Plutonia uses a little more chaingunners, TNT uses a lot more hitscanners overall.

[Anonymous No.2571657]

>>2571647
TNT Map09 is probably one of the best examples of its high hitscanner usage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvMk1VOfWEI

[Anonymous No.2571669]

Daily reminder that if you find hitscanners problematic you are beyond retarded.

[Anonymous No.2571676]

>>2571669
Depends on how they're placed in the map, and whether you're playing with or without -fast/nightmare on.

[Anonymous No.2571761]

>>2571669
>>2571676
>touch thing
>wall drops behind you
>chaingun sodomy ensues

It's not impossible to deal with, it just seems like such a pointless dick move on the part of the map designer if overused.

It's pretty cruel to stick them in wide open areas too, although it's not so bad playing in a source port rather than a pixelated postage stamp on my old 486.

>>2571647
I could have TNT mixed up with Plutonia, it's been a while. I've played through e1-3 and Doom 64 a million times but I don't think I ever finished any of the Final Doom wads.

[Anonymous No.2571824]

>>2571614
>>2571647
I would say that Plutonia is more known for its high usage of Revenants. There are 422 of them overall (compared to 90 in Doom 2, and 233 in TNT), and the only levels not to have them are Hunted, and Compound.

[Anonymous No.2571892]

Is it just me, or is Doom II's level design downright sadistic? I've been having a blast playing through it with the original engine on UV (thanks Steam!), but I just keep getting my ass handed to me.

I beat Ultimate Doom some time ago with a similar setup (Chocolate Doom; UV; keyboard only), but the only episode I remember being as difficult is Thy Flesh Consumed. I mean, UD wasn't released until Doom II was even out, and the level design on episode 4 was basically like Doom II's... but without the SSG to balance things out.

Anyway, I've found that playing the original levels using vanilla or chocolate Doom is a much more challenging, visceral experience than using a modernized sourceport. Vertical mouselook and jumping take away so much of the difficulty, and the lack of analog mouse movement actually takes away some of the finer control you have on the original engine.

Whenever I see mods done on modern sourceports, I just can't help but think of how far removed they are from the original games. Some of the stuff modders have done is pretty nifty, but a lot of it just seems stupid (I'm looking at you, Brutal Doom). Honestly, why would someone in their right mind ruin Doom with stupidly unbalanced weapons and CoD-like gameplay mechanics?

[Anonymous No.2571931]

>>2571892
It's quite a different experience, definitely more difficult. Call me pretentious, but making mods and maps that can't be played in vanilla/Chocolate Doom is cheating, IMO.

I also hate how most of these sourceports try to turn it into Quake. What's the point?

[Anonymous No.2571996]

>>2571931
>Call me pretentious, but making mods and maps that can't be played in vanilla/Chocolate Doom is cheating, IMO.

What about limit removing and boom maps? I mean, sure, there are mappers who abuse the raised limits and create very goofy looking detailing, but generally maps in these formats can be played the classic way with PrBoom.

[Anonymous No.2572059]

>>2550015
32x>Jaguar>64>Ultimate>Final>2

[Anonymous No.2572067]

>>2571931
Actually a lot of people welcomed not being restricted to level limits. Hell if you read the documentation for the source code, Carmack even encouraged people to make ports that could render the game in full 3d, 60 fps, and even include jumping.

It's hardly "cheating" if it's removing the limits that hampered some grand maps from being made. Look in the Community Chest maps for some good examples of how removing the limits can make for some very complex and still fun maps.

[Anonymous No.2572082]

>>2553639
>Plutonia
>Not TNT Evilution

[Anonymous No.2572094]

>>2571179
>>2571196
>Doom 64's artstyle where everything looks like turds and clay somehow makes the lighting effects and music work better

[Anonymous No.2572104]

>>2572094
64's artstyle is great. It also is much darker and horror focused, practically built around the new audio.

The cacodemons look like shit, though.

[Anonymous No.2572119]

>>2572094
Its not about whether the graphics are good or not. Its that 64's graphics look more dark and serious than the original's.

The original graphics give Doom an 80's action sci-fi/horror vibe. Which clashes with the dark ambient music.

[Anonymous No.2572138]

>>2560001
from doomworld
>Well.. Final doom was good mostly because you knew what you were getting. It was made for people who loved doom and wanted more of it. There's a point where youve played enough of the game where the reason you're still playing it is for the game play. Not the narrative or the ambience or what have you.
>its for seasoned doomers who got through doom 1 and 2 too fast and wanted more of a challenge. I'd think final doom certainly succeeds in that.

[Anonymous No.2572257]

Knee Deep in the Dead has some of my favourite maps as they really worked on the Military Base appearance, later episodes seemed a more generic 'hell' look.

Doom 2 introduced lots of new monsters and had done great maps, I played the hell out of it.

Ultimate Doom had some really tough missions. It's the only Doom that's still a challenge.

[Anonymous No.2572303]

>>2572257
>later episodes seemed a more generic 'hell' look.

The Shores of Hell wasn't generic hell. It was mostly techbase with layouts that are more abstract and surreal thanks to hell's influence. I actually consider it my favourite episode because of this blend.

[Anonymous No.2572346]

Strife you plebeian pieces of shit

[Anonymous No.2572380]

>>2572346
While it used the doom engine, I'm pretty sure its not part of the Doom series.

[Anonymous No.2573353]

Doom 64 has the best mapping of the series


If you disagree you don't make maps for Doom, also you are fucking WRONG.

[Anonymous No.2573368]

>>2573353
Disagree. You have shit taste.

[Anonymous No.2573457]

>>2550015
64>Ultimate>Final>2

Fight me.

[Anonymous No.2573491]

>>2573368

Not him, but how is he wrong?

Doom 1's only good mapping is in episodes 1, part of 2, and the last one in the ultimate doom expansion, doom 2's map design is a joke and is actually pretty ugly in the last 10 maps or so honestly.

[Anonymous No.2573527]

>>2573491
>doom 2's map design is a joke and is actually pretty ugly in the last 10 maps or so honestly.

I could give you that Nirvana, Barrels o' Fun, Chasm, The Spirit World, and Icon of Sin are eyesores. But Catacombs, Bloodfalls, Abandoned Mines, Monster Condo, and The Living End weren't ugly, and had pretty decent architecture IMO.

[Anonymous No.2573587]

>>2573491
Most of Doom 2's shitty maps lied within the city ones and the only shitty maps I can think of in Doom 1 were in Thy Flesh Consumed.

[Anonymous No.2573590]

>>2573587
Thy Flesh Consumed didn't have any shitty maps. It was just uneven.

Inferno on the other hand was only good in the middle.

[Anonymous No.2573715]

>>2561054
Because the first episode was a fucking demo. With only 9 levels.

[Anonymous No.2573728]

>>2571931
Exactly. When you're making a mod that only runs on Boom or GZDoom or whatever, you're almost making something for an entirely different game.

If you want my opinion, I think one of the main reasons Zdoom modding is so popular is because it takes less effort to rip resources from other games to use in your mods, than it does to create the 3D models required for something like Quake or Unreal. I'm not saying all ZDoom mods are like this, but I've seen tons of modifications for it that outright steal things.

[Anonymous No.2573736]

>>2573728
>When you're making a mod that only runs on Boom or GZDoom or whatever, you're almost making something for an entirely different game.
>Boom

Err what? All Boom did was add more linedef and sector actions for mapping, alongside having bex patches. It still played exactly like Doom. You still couldn't jump, you still couldn't use freelook, actors were still infinitely tall, etc. To claim Boom turned Doom into something entirely different is a massive overstatement.

[Anonymous No.2573778]

>>2563876
Well, given that the poll has Final Doom dead last, below 64 of all things, I'd say you plutonia babbies are getting thoroughly BTFO.

[Anonymous No.2573810]

>>2573778
>plutonia babbies

No.

[Anonymous No.2573858]

>>2573778
Which is simply a reflection of how pleb the /vr/oom community is. Seriously, you guys are a joke. If you can't see why Plutonia is clearly the best out of the originals you don't understand Doom. You can't compare the dynamics of the combat situations that Plutonia creates with the clever use of its enemies compared to the older ones. Its level design is also FAR superior to its predecessors; the only reason one could like the original Doom more is if he prefers atmosphere and aesthetic over far better and more involved gameplay.

Like I said, Plutonia was the precursor to pushing the Doom formula to new heights, and the fact that the piss baby /vr/ Doom community doesn't understand this is really telling of how much of a fucking joke /vr/oom is. Literal dilettantes, all of you.

[Anonymous No.2573864]

>>2573858
Are all Plutoniababby's like this or are you just a massive faggot?

[Anonymous No.2574019]

>>2573864
Probably both

>>2573858
>piss baby
Where did you come from? Wherever it is, go back.

[Anonymous No.2574039]

>>2574019
I will when you go back to Halo where you belong.

[Anonymous No.2574209]

>>2573736
Unless those things can be done with a dehacked patch, then I say that makes it a significantly different engine. Although you're right, Boom is not THAT different from Doom. I was probably thinking more of PrBoom.

[Anonymous No.2574260]

>>2573736
Don't forget that Boom removed the old limits of the vanilla exe, letting mappers make bigger maps with much larger and more detailed rooms. Also neat things that don't change the core gameplay like silent teleporters and doors that need multiple keys.

[Anonymous No.2574868]

>>2574209
>Unless those things can be done with a dehacked patch, then I say that makes it a significantly different engine.

Bex was just an enhanced dehacked. And most source ports (including crispy doom of all things) actually allow its additional actions through a regular dehacked lump.

>I was probably thinking more of PrBoom.

Eh, PrBoom is just Boom and MBF merged, with complevels added for demos, some of the limits being raised even higher, and OpenGL mode. Its still nowhere near as different from Doom as Zdoom and its derived ports are.

[Anonymous No.2574870]

>>2573778
>>2573858
>>2573864
>>2574019
>>2574039
I was kinda hoping we were past the /v/-tier shitposting by now...

[Anonymous No.2576441]

>>2550015
Plutonia > Doom = Memento Mori > Icarus = TNT > Ultimate > II