/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2542265]

What rpgs/jrpgs have the best stories?

pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.2542285]

>>2542265
Sorry to be so generic, but:
Terranigma has a fantastic story (except arguably the human age)
Chrono Trigger is terrific, though I bet you've played it.
Xenogears gets pretty damn cool, though the gameplay kinda sucks.

[Anonymous No.2542289]

Pic related.

FF6 was cheesy at every turn. A genetically engineered, nihilistic, omnicidal clown is hellbent on destroying a world that's an awkward crossover of steampunk and the Wild West, and only a rag-tag team consisting of an esper, a moogle, a ninja, a samurai, a feral child, and various other walking stereotypes can stop him? I don't think it's possible to suspend my disbelief.

[Anonymous No.2542308]

>>2542289
>I don't think it's possible to suspend my disbelief.
Two of the party members were also genetically engineered and the team had espers on their side. If anything, the odds were in their favor.

[Anonymous No.2542310]

>>2542265

Matsuno is a legitimately great writer, and his talents are wasted on games. He should write books or at least comics.

>Tactics Ogre
>Vagrant Story
>Final Fantasy Tactics

[Anonymous No.2542342]

Square was perfectly capable of producing good writing. They just didn't try very often.

[Anonymous No.2543067]

>>2542308
>The odds were in their favor

With espers & proper equipment they were certainly far ahead of anything else on that planet.

But I've always been confused regarding their "power levels", since they're basically just normal humans who are being augmented by normal humans who were essentially radioactive victims of an arcane nuclear god war.
Every Esper is actually just some dude who stood a little too close to one of the Magic God's spells and forever mutated into an Esper.
So the cast of players are essentially equipping themselves with radioactive trinkets to become more radioactive themselves.

Meanwhile Kefka grabs a shit ton of Espers for himself and then even goes and grabs the three Magical Gods and "junctions" them to himself.

So its like 12 Dudes wearing ground zero Full Plate & Laser Swords go and tackle one guy who is toked up on the essence of Three Chernobyls and then come out on top somehow.

>>2542310
Poor Matsuno.

[Anonymous No.2543791]

>>2542265
Meh, I played FF6 recently and enjoyed its story more than Chrono Trigger.

Both pale in comparison to Tactics Ogre or Final Fantasy Tactics though.

[Anonymous No.2543821]

I always feel like a scrub in JRPG discussions because it's almost all the time about minmaxing and breaking the system, and I'm one of those >playing for the story faggots.

I second Matsuno, especially when coupled with Alexander O. Smith translations. Doesn't get any better, basically.

Valkyrie Profile, including the non-retro and PS2 and DS entries, are almost on the same level. Marvelous stuff.

[Anonymous No.2543828]

Every Ogre game/FFT has the exact same boring story.

[Anonymous No.2543830]

>>2543828
that's just like your opinion, man

[Anonymous No.2543842]

>>2543821
I never understand the
>playing for story
criticism.

[Anonymous No.2543863]

>>2542310
>He should write books or at least comics.

Without the Square or FF label, Matsuno would just be another generic fantasy author.

[Anonymous No.2543868]

>>2543863
SRPGs and getting to do them the way he wanted to do them was the best medium for him, honestly.

[Anonymous No.2543871]

Though it's not really in the same vein of RPG as the games already posted in this thread, I'm going to go with my personal favorite, Planescape: Torment.

Not a particularly unique or exciting answer, I know, but it's still a good story.

[Anonymous No.2543874]

>>2543821

Smith is one of the worst translators in the industry. I'd hardly even call his work translation. There are too many arbitrary changes, and his grasp on English grammar is questionable.

As strange as it sounds, I preferred Square's old in-house translators, despite all the fucked up spelling and punctuation errors they churned out.

[Anonymous No.2543878]

>>2543828
>>2543830
Honestly... fairly true..

Tactics Ogre and FFT are virtually the same. Theres this political war going on and it devolves into ancient demon type things. I feel like FFT handles it better for the most part, since you're introduced to the Lucavi fairly early compared to Tactics Ogre when its kinda thrown at you in like the final battles.

[Anonymous No.2543891]

>>2543874
It does sound strange. I'm a huge fucking weeb, and I mean HUGE, and I can accept Smith's localizations just fine whereas I do loathe Victor Ireland, for instance. You can also compare Smith (and Joseph Reeder) to Tom Slattery, for instance, for more reference. Smith is one of the few guys in the industry who I trust to localize well.

[Anonymous No.2543892]

>>2543878
Every FF game is bound to have something about politics and ancient demons/aliens/people/technology.

[Anonymous No.2543898]

Greatest story, protagonist and villain of all JRPGs. Prove me wrong /vr/

[Anonymous No.2543902]

>>2543898
i'm about to start this and it better be better than suikoden I. which was ass if i'm honest.

[Anonymous No.2543908]

>>2543891

I can't possibly fathom why you trust Smith over anyone else. You definitely don't have any objective basis for this preference. I'm not a literal accuracy autist, but the changes he makes to the script are very much arbitrary, and there's just no contesting that. To each his own though.

I myself have not bought a Square game since they merged with Enix, and I have no future plans to.

[Anonymous No.2543912]

>>2543902
It surpasses 1 in essentially every single way

Make sure to get the side quest from transferring your S1 save file

[Anonymous No.2543917]

>>2543908
I don't have an objective basis, no. I'm a fansubber and generally err on the literal side of the retarded fansubbing debate, and I'm extremely wary of overlocalization and tend to flip my shit at it, so at least personally, it means something to me when I play Smith translations and feel perfectly fine about them.

If you claim that his changes are arbitrary and thus producing inconsistencies and unacceptable deviations from the source material, I'd like to see examples from you.

[Anonymous No.2544029]

>>2542289
>I don't think it's possible to suspend my disbelief.
That's sad. Maybe you should stick to Bethesda games anon.

[Anonymous No.2544049]

>>2542265
>pic unrelated
This has to be one of the most obvious bait threads I've seen in a long time, yet done so simply and so well. Good job OP, I appreciate the minimalist but effective style. 10/10.

[Anonymous No.2544068]

>>2542265
FF6 is easily the most over rated Final Fantasy ever.

[Anonymous No.2544082]

>>2542289
I only had a problem with how Kefka used his powers. He could've just thrown everyone off the tower to kill them, without even fighting them, using his telekinetic ability which he had demonstrated on them during the dialogue between him and the party. But, nooooo, Kefka had to fight "fairly" despite using the most cowardly tactics to defeat his enemies in the past. That was the scene that really ruined my suspension of disbelief.

[Anonymous No.2544094]

>>2544082
Also, how was everyone suddenly able to float in the air like they were riding on an invisible elevator as they fought Kefka's "body parts"? Why didn't Kefka just rain lighting down on them before they reached him?

[Anonymous No.2544098]

>>2544094
cont'd
Why didn't Kefka just fly away when he was about to lose?

[Anonymous No.2544114]

[Anonymous No.2544178]

>>2544068
Nah, ff vii is.

[Anonymous No.2544202]

>>2544082
>>2544094
>>2544098
Why didn't Sephiroth just fly away? Or destroy the opening to the crater?
Why did Shinra create a super soldier stronger than anything on the planet with cells from an evil alien that might still be alive?
Why didn't Exdeath close the opening to the Void? Or seal them in one area?
Why didn't Kuja kill Zidane when they met at the beginning of the game? Why didn't Queen Brahe just keep Garnet under lock and key at all times?
Why didn't Zemus take control of Cecil as well as Golbez when Cecil was a dark knight? Why didn't Golbez kill Cecil himself before he became a paladin, literally the only thing that could defeat him?
Why didn't Golbez or Zemus kill FuSoYa?
Why didn't Exdeath just kill the Light Warriors right when he was released from the seal?
Why didn't Ultimecia just have Edea go to Esthar City undercover, become chummy with Laguna, go into space and then release Adel?
Fuck, why did Bowser have an axe attached to the bridge that his enemy had to jump to get(when he knew his enemy's only fucking skill was jumping), thus becoming the only thing that could kill him? Why did Ganon never learn that there will always be some shit-for-brains kid who will seal or kill him, and just murder the little fucker while he's helpless.
Why doesn't Batman just suck it up and kill the Joker, why did someone make a whole park full of killer dinosaurs, why would anyone develop a computer program capable of self-learning and theoretical self-awareness that had access to a nuclear arsenal?

Christ you colossal fag, these are video games, it's fiction, a story meant to entertain or make a point. If everyone thought rationally and planned things out like a normal person, the game would be over immediately and no one would have any fun. If something about a game is really stupid or legitimately doesn't make sense, pointing that out is fine, but just nitpicking things because "Ugh, it's not realistic!" makes you look like a pretentious asshole.

[Anonymous No.2544234]

>>2544202
If the writer has enough foresight, he can easily make a story that's both fun and actually plausible.

[Anonymous No.2544238]

>>2544114
that game is such a letdown. it builds itself up to this awesom sci fi theme and then just ignores it for standard jrpg fantasy bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2544269]

>>2544234
Yes, but there will always be little holes like that, it is necessary for the plot to continue. Even if a writer creates the greatest story in the history of JRPGs, it is still a game and is still a journey. A final boss flying away or teleporting or closing off the final area would be stupid because the game wouldn't have a satisfying ending, it'd just end. With every villain, especially in RPGs, there is always an underlying reason why they intentionally fuck up that honestly doesn't need to be explained unless the player is retarded.

Kefka, Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kuja, they were all over-confident pricks drunk on power who honestly thought they couldn't lose, and their backup plan was "Well if I die I'll just collapse the area! Haha!" Yeah, it's dumb, but it's better then getting to the final dungeon and finding that there is no way it can be entered because the villain adequately prepared for your arrival and the possibility that you'll kick his shit in, or finding an unbeatable super-boss halfway through the game. Even in real life that shit happens. Look at Hitler in WWII, the dumbass stationed tanks along Belgium but not France and didn't listen to his advisers at all when invading Russia. Mistakes are human and inevitable in anything, it is necessary for both the story for there to be really dumb little mistakes. You know they're there, but picking them out and criticizing them is just stupid.

[Anonymous No.2544279]

>>2544269
Kek, silly Hitler why did you trust Mussolini to handle greece?

[Anonymous No.2544295]

>>2544269
>A final boss flying away or teleporting or closing off the final area would be stupid because the game wouldn't have a satisfying ending, it'd just end
That's why you write the game in a way that you'll corner the badguy and he has nowhere else to go.
>With every villain, especially in RPGs, there is always an underlying reason why they intentionally fuck up that honestly doesn't need to be explained unless the player is retarded.
We're not discussing actual strategic fuckups that get properly addressed in-game. We're discussing ridiculous quirks that contradict the rules of their own universe or the nature of the character and nobody in the cast gives a slightest fuck. It's like a unicorn passing in front of your eyes and nobody bats an eyelid.

>Why didn't X kill Y when he could?
More like "why didn't anybody even acknowledge this afterwards?" That detail alone could've made so many plotholes seem much more organic and less like just lazy writing.

[Anonymous No.2544331]

Every other one sucks.

[Anonymous No.2544349]

>>2544269
>Kefka, Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kuja, they were all over-confident pricks drunk on power who honestly thought they couldn't lose

Did being drunk on power make them retarded? Even regular enemies know how to flee when they know they don't have a chance to win.

[Anonymous No.2544356]

>>2542265

So convoluted that Kojima would be proud, but god damn is a great story.

[Anonymous No.2544357]

>>2544331
I found the prentious hipster douche!

[Anonymous No.2544359]

>>2544356
and the first half is a pretty good game.

[Anonymous No.2544701]

For me it's less about how the story is written and more how the story is told. These comic-like cutscenes are top tier storytelling and were frankly completly unmatched until games became fully voiced.

[Anonymous No.2544958]

>>2544202
>Golbez or Zemus kill FuSoYa

Zemus can't leave his domain
Golbez couldn't get into space

[Anonymous No.2544960]

>>2542310
>Matsuno is a legitimately great writer
Until you realize he does exactly the same story over and over again.
>2 or 3 factions fight over a greater power at te cost of the peoples' lives
>You play as one of the sides which eventually turns into a neutral/another contender
>The church turns out to be the greater pricks
>Pragmatic, well intentioned main villains that always fall into the gray area of morality
>Someone on your side betrays you and/or turns out it was part of one of the antagonists' factions
>Final Boss is actually a magic Eldritch out of nowhere
Repeat ad nauseam.
I really like Matsuno's characters and Vagrant Story is one of my top 10 RPGs of all time, but he should really try to come up with a different plot structure, his games are too predictable and that hurts his characters a lot.
>>2542342
If Frontier 2 included all the cut material they put in the novel it would have been a 10/10 in terms of writing and characters, probably one of the few JRPGs where the characters truly feel human.

[Anonymous No.2544974]

i dunno about best, but my favourite is still FF4.

there's something about a redemption story that is universal to the human condition because it centers around regret.

every character in that game fought with themselves or with a regret (minus the twins, they were plot fodder in the end). The story telling wasn't great i guess, but the scenario works for me.

and when we got a backstory of the Lunarians in later iterations of the ff4 scenario, it helped explain the actions going on in the artificial moon more clearly.

FF6 didn't touch me the same way, there were so many little stories, and no real scenario tying everything together so the character development never meant as much... but it was still fun.

FFL and FFL2 (sags) did a better job to me of managing side-stories and such than ff6.

[Anonymous No.2545754]

>>2544960
Eh that's not always true about Matsuno games.
You can certainly make that conclusion if you just deconstruct Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together and make some basic comparisons.

You could even say a lot of those are pretty typical of most anime/game stories.

>Evil Church
>Your Kingdom is actually dicks and you find a neutral non-violent position
>Suddenly Demons

Anyway, Saga Frontier 2 had a novel? I need a link to this pronto.

>>2544974
I've gone on so many FF4 spiels about why I love the game.
I don't know if I have the energy at the moment.

[Anonymous No.2545787]

>>2545754
Happened to see this thread. I'm very happy with the FF4 love, it's also my favourite FF, and favourite RPG.
The extra back-story in the DS version almost made me jizz in my pants with delight.
Unfortunately, I've never played After Years.

[Anonymous No.2545831]

>>2544349
>Did being drunk on power make them retarded?
being drunk tends to affect your judgment, yes

[Anonymous No.2545837]

i just want to defend ff7's translation.

everyone loves to lol at the grammar errors but the writing captures the tone perfectly.

compare it to crisis core or any of the other spinoffs and youll see what i mean.

[Anonymous No.2545887]

>>2543898
>Prove me wrong /vr/

Done. Lucca was a joke of a villain and Jowy was a faggot who kept the war going because of no reason beyond loldestiny

Breath of Fire IV on the otherhand let's us experience the villains decent into madness first hand

[Anonymous No.2545890]

>>2544974
Nobody ever talks about the social/historical context of JRPG stories. FF4 is a story about redemption BUT it is also a Japanese story about a hyper-advanced alien race visiting Earth, helping humans develop some major technologies, then going into hibernation so as not to interfere with humanity's growth... but the villain is an alien who wants to colonize Japan, I mean Earth, and make all of the Earthlings like Lunarians. It really says a lot about Japan, the era, and the people making RPGs that the overarching message in FF4 basically amounts to "maybe it's a bad idea to mix cultures".

Of course, FF6 subsequently turns this theme on its head; in FF6, the traditional Japanese lifestyle, represented by the magic and animism of espers, dies off at the end of the game. But the message here is that magic was incompatible, even harmful, with the modern world. Yet the end of the game is very hopeful, having a lot of faith in humanity's indomitable spirit even in the ruined world. FF6 is about uniting people from across the globe, leaving the past behind, and moving forward together.

It really makes you wonder what happened in the three years between FF4 and FF6, to create such a stark shift in perspective. Different authors? Current events? Were the people who wrote the games even aware of the political statements they were making?

[Anonymous No.2545903]

>>2545890
that's a LOT of projection on your part.

[Anonymous No.2545913]

>>2545903
You can't do serious literary analysis without forming a hypothesis first. I'm just trying to start up a discussion about the stories with some substance beyond "how entertaining was it?"

[Anonymous No.2545917]

>>2544701

I like you. Phantasy Star 4 is a fantastically well told and well paced game.

it's not terribly long but you're almost always moving forward at the right pace and Id rather a game that I can come back to over and over again because it's fun and brisk than a 60 hour epic that's nothing but pointless chatter or fetch quests

[Anonymous No.2545926]

>>2545917
How long is it?

[Anonymous No.2545929]

>>2545890
Maybe they were intentionally attempting to subvert the original message, as some kind of inspiration/ripoff from Ultima 4-6

[Anonymous No.2545930]

>>2545926

first time through? Probably about 20 maybe a little less.

[Anonymous No.2545939]

>>2545930

oh and that's without the side quests, which won't add a huge chunk of extra time but the game's far from devoid of content

[Anonymous No.2545986]

>Nobody saying Legend of Dragoon
da fuk?

LoD had such a fascinating world, what with all these species who supposedly all had the same mythical origin, birthed from a tree of life. But most importantly was the mystery of the Black Monster, which had me on edge the entire time I was playing the game. Once the secret was revelaed I found delight playing through the game a second time with the fresh perspective of knowing everything.

[Anonymous No.2545987]

>>2544114
Maybe if the character stories were actually built into the plot. And maybe if any characters beyond Claude, Rena and sorta Dias (who you don't even get as Claude) mattered.
Maybe if it tried to continue the first game's Mu plot instead of presenting yet another super advanced ancient civilization which is totally not called Eden.
Maybe if the beggining wasn't such a painfully slow and pointless drag.

[Anonymous No.2546003]

>>2545986
LoD is a bland pastiche of RPG cliches and does absolutely nothing that five other RPGs have done before and/or better.

It deserves no recognition aside from being the first RPG to advertise that they were the next FF7, so I guess hooray for insidious business practices.

[Anonymous No.2546020]

>>2545754
>>2544960
If you can deconstruct, 2 games that are linked by nothing to the same common ground by the same person (3 if you count vagrant story, which this still applies to pretty well) then its pretty much implied that its samey.

I like TO:Loct and FFT, and Vagrant Story. They are all absolutely fantastic. I love the aspects of tragedy and real consequences present (especially in TO), and I feel they are some of the best writing in games to date.

But to say they aren't similar is asinine. Its like saying Dark Souls is completely unrelated to Demon's Souls when you know they just called it Dark Souls because the Demon's Souls name was owned by Sony.

>>2545986
>>2546003
LoD is generic, bland, and completely and utterly awful.

The combat tries to add depth by having Timed Hits, but it ends up being a QTE dance that turns every single battle into a monotonous grind.

I think thats a huge deal that they tried to advertise as the next FF7. Throwing your game across multiple discs for the sake of length and being "epic" while having some incredibly bland characters, and having a main cast member die just seals the deal as far as I'm concerned.

I could forgive it if its pacing wasn't so damn slow.

[Anonymous No.2546043]

>>2545986
>>2546003
>>2546020

I thought dragoon was pretty good but I wouldn't put it on a BEST list

[Anonymous No.2546062]

>>2545986
Honestly there's probably some Japanese one I don't know about, but Dragoon is the most generic and uninspired JRPG I can think of.

[Anonymous No.2546075]

>>2545913
that came out a lot meaner than i wanted it to sound, sorry about that. i see where you are coming from and i recognize the point you are making, but i think your presuppsotions lack foundation in reality.

i have a degree in english-language literature so i know how these kinds of analyses and interpretations and literary critiques work. they mostly serve as a means of expression for the one analysing and critiquing. your post felt a lot like those.

[Anonymous No.2546079]

>>2546075
>presuppsotions
lol that came out weird

[Anonymous No.2546132]

>>2544238

Welcome to Star Ocean.

[Anonymous No.2546140]

>>2546075
You sure as shit don't type like someone with a degree.

What school did you go to?

[Anonymous No.2546154]

>>2546140
the school of hard knocks

[Anonymous No.2546186]

>>2545890
i just think ff4 was referencing the tale of the princess and the bamboo cutter. the one story that's referenced all the time in japanese pop media
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Bamboo_Cutter

[Anonymous No.2546415]

>>2546140
eyyy i'm here for fun alright.

the point i was making is that you're injecting a lot of cherrypicked extradiegetic stuff into your interpretation of the narrative. that's critically dishonest, foregone conclusions dressed up as "hypotheses". that's what you call "readings" - feminist readings, african-american readings, marxist readings, whatever.

if you find someone who wants to buy into your -- sorry -- lame culturalist reading of honestly not very smart 1990s JRPGs based on cursory layman observations of japanese history and society, go have fun and knock yourself out by all means. serious literary criticism this is not.

[Anonymous No.2546452]

>>2546415
I'm not >>2545890, I'm >>2546140

I was just breaking your balls, but in seriousness it isn't necessary to brag about having degrees to people who pull wild-ass conclusions out of their asses.

I agree with the point you're making but you really sound a fool when you make it in such a dumb fashion.

[Anonymous No.2547026]

>>2546452
you're probably right, except that a liberal arts degree is nothing to brag about. rest assured i feel properly ashamed about my life choices.

[Anonymous No.2547070]

>>2545890
I think FF6 is a metaphor for Japan's defeat in WWII and it's subsequent Westernization. Kefka represented everything bad about the West, and the people that fought against him (which included Japanese people) were the conservatives who were against American rule and wanted to restore the Empire. Terra and Celes represented the fusion of Western and Japanese culture and ideals. Celes jumping off a cliff was an allusion to the Japanese who jumped off cliffs rather than surrendering when the Americans invaded the Japanese islands.

[Anonymous No.2547123]

>>2547070
I think Kefka is actually Shirou Ishii and Terra's rebel group is the USA. FF6 is a fiercely anti-Japanese piece of propaganda.

[Noko No.2547187]

Super Mario rpg

[Anonymous No.2547336]

>>2547123
I'm interested.

What makes it Anti-Japanese?

I'd like to see evidence/proof

[Anonymous No.2547343]

>>2544238
>that game is such a letdown. it builds itself up to this awesom sci fi theme and then just ignores it for standard jrpg fantasy bullshit.

nips cant into sci-fi rpgs

[Anonymous No.2547361]

>>2544238
If you want something that's fully Sci-Fi check out Front Mission or Lagrange Point. Maybe both Cyber Knights.

[Anonymous No.2547365]

I realized this gets wanked a lot, but Mother 3 is fantastic in story. The other 2 not as much, but the dialog is still good in all of them.

[Anonymous No.2547369]

>>2542310
>Final Fantasy Tactics
Sure, at first half. Then the whole thing degrades to SLAY ALL THE DEMONS.

I kinda wish he'd have kept what was going on in the first half as the main focus.

[Anonymous No.2547389]

>>2545986
I'll agree that the characters aren't nearly as whining or annoying as some we're familiar with, the Dragoon spirits and lore get a good amount of depth, and what happens at the climax is a pretty neat dynamic, but there's some fundamental problems.

>Lack of explanation of lore from 11,000 years ago leaves you wondering if you're missing something, even the optional former dragoon battles could have given more.
>Cliche land is bad if you're not into that sort of thing.
>Though it's kinda neat that the discs are divided up in a way that feels like you're playing four quests in themselves, it results in a lack of flow occasionally.
>The game heavily expects you to never go back outside of Lohan and Tiberoa, sacrificing a lot of depth.

tl;dr they fucked up hard in story

[Anonymous No.2547494]

>>2547369
You would think Ramza would gain some serious political power, despite being a Heretic, by single handedly winning the war on all sides.

"Oh you went down south and murdered the Count?"
"Oh you went up North and murdered the Duke?"
"Oh you went East and killed the Marquis and then west and killed Lord Dycedarg"
"Oh and Goltanna is dead"
"So whose alive, we've got like a Princess somewhere right?"

[Anonymous No.2547526]

>>2544238
The whole SO series is stupid.

[Anonymous No.2547668]

>>2547336
See, the empire is clearly a symbol for the collective, much like the Japanese wartime empire was. While the tenno is the true emperor, nothing embodies its nature more than the bio warfare experiments conducted by Shirou Ishii and his Unit 731 in Manchuria, some of which were entirely sadistic and of no scientific merit (cf. the seminal studies of Keiichi Tsuneishi, Frederick R. Dickinson and Till Bäringhausen). This much reminds me of Kefka and his poisoning of the river. Terra and her gang meanwhile are radically individual and unbent and unbroken in their mission to right the wrongs of the world, much like America.

I also have a personal note from Sakaguchi which reads "Fuck Japan."

[Anonymous No.2547671]

>>2546415
Hey there, I'm the guy that made the original post.

I totally get where you're coming from, and you're right. I presented my claim as a foregone conclusion, because that's what gets responses on 4chan. The easiest way to get information here is to post wrong information and wait for someone to correct you. I'm aware that I'm making a few leaps here but I'm not writing an essay, I'm just trying to start a conversation. You can call it a reading or a hypothesis or whatever you like, but I called it a hypothesis because I'm acknowledging that I could be totally off the mark, and I welcome opposing evidence. Just talk to me, baby.

Just because the story isn't "smart" doesn't mean that I think this wouldn't be a fun conversation to have. Even if the authors didn't intend for the story to be a direct metaphor, their perspective allowed for them to write a story that was very anti-war and very pro-globalization, which is just interesting to consider in the face of growing pro-war and nationalist sentiment in Japanese media and government. Well, I feel that recent trends in Japanese media have been more pro-war than in my childhood, but this, too, I could be wrong about.

(I probably know a bit more about Japanese history than you've assumed, depending on how you use the term "layman". I didn't make it my thesis or anything but I'm curious what you think, based on what you know about the subject.)

[Anonymous No.2547743]

>>2547668
You could be on to something, it might be inspired in part by Japanese war crimes, but I don't think that a claim as specific as that works. I'm not aware of the extent to which Japanese war crimes were known in Japan, but I do know that some were covered-up, and even the United States assisted in these cover-ups. Japanese textbooks also don't discuss the war crimes in much depth, so I doubt that they were entrenched well enough in the zeitgeist to be directly referenced by video game developers. I don't think Unit 731 was really well known by even learned Japanese people until the 2000s.

I disagree more strongly with your assertion that the game is anti-japanese. The game often paints the imperial soldiers in a sympathetic light, despite fighting for the Empire, and at one point one of the characters says "The Empire is evil, but not all of its citizens are." Even if you do consider that the Empire is supposed to represent imperial Japan, the only truly evil people in the empire are Kefka and Gestahl. Even two of the highest-ranking members of the Empire's military, Leo and Celes, are shown to be virtuous people who understand the senselessness of war.

[Anonymous No.2547747]

this thread is bananas you all looking too much into this

[Anonymous No.2547750]

>>2547743
I don't know about japanese education, but the koreans and chinese sure as fuck make sure the japs are constantly reminded of every single one of their war crimes
MUH COMFORT WOMEN
MUH REPARATIONS FOR NANKING

[Anonymous No.2547756]

>>2547750
Yeah clearly everyone knows about it now, but in those days information about it didn't travel as freely and Korean and Chinese criticism was a lot more easily dismissed by the Japanese public.

[Anonymous No.2547769]

>>2547743
>I'm not aware of the extent to which Japanese war crimes were known in Japan, but I do know that some were covered-up, and even the United States assisted in these cover-ups. Japanese textbooks also don't discuss the war crimes in much depth, so I doubt that they were entrenched well enough in the zeitgeist to be directly referenced by video game developers. I don't think Unit 731 was really well known by even learned Japanese people until the 2000s.
I was just messing with the dude who asked me, assuming he threw me a nice little curveball to hit it out of the park with some wild bullshit.

BUT let me tell you that your assumptions are very wrong about this, and reading as much as a single paper by any of the three authors I mentioned would greatly help your understanding. The JCP-led opposition and a left-leaning generation of post-war historians made sure that the human experiments conducted by Japanese units in China got publicized to a substantial degree, with week-long series of articles in the Asahi Shimbun and articles in Sekai whch inspired a flood of research, partly drawing from evidence presented in the Khabarovsk trials.

There were primetime documentaries in the 1970s on TBS, which also made the news in the US. Tsuneichi and a journalist whose name escapes me (Matsuda?) spearheaded a pan-Asian research movement cooperating with Chinese historians. The human experiments and war crimes were a topic in textbooks from the get-go, something Saburou Ienaga made sure of, to the extent of duking it out with the revisionist government and taking them to court.

The US government guaranteed the leading heads of the experimentation squads safe post-war lives in exchange for their data, which they used for their own purposes, morality be damned. Human experimentation was much less of a public topic in the US and Germany than it was in Japan.

FF6 most definitely did not reference 731, but there was a bunch of novels and stories that did.

[Anonymous No.2547770]

>>2543828
>every FFT
The first one yes. It branched out into ripping off Neverending Story and a completely different Ivalice based on FFXII in the non-retro.

[Anonymous No.2547776]

>>2547769
Oh, kudos. I guess I underestimated you too. I assumed that you just pulled those names from a wikipedia article or something.

[Anonymous No.2548441]

Legend of Mana is actually pretty good for something as open as it.

[Anonymous No.2548994]

What effect do different Zodiac signs have in the game?

[Anonymous No.2549237]

>>2548994
In Final Fantasy Tactics? Character compatibility.
Good compatibility = More damage dealt, more healing, higher charm and steal success, etc
Bad compatibility = the opposite of the above

[Anonymous No.2549265]

>>2542265
>pic unrelated

MY ASS


and to answer your question it would help if you said what you like in terms of fantasy, sci-fi, something in a modern setting, etc.

[Anonymous No.2550241]

>>2542265
God Tier
Popolocrois 2
Shining Force 3 Scenario 2
Moon

Top tier
Legend of heroes 3 Shiroki Majo
Tengai Makyou zero
Shining Force 3 Scenario 1 and 2

Good tier
Dewprism
marl oukoku monogatari 2

It's own tier
Linda cube

[Anonymous No.2550690]

>>2550241
I didn't expect much from Threads of fate, but it's actually really good at it's story.

Especially considering how wildly different in feel both characters are in plot.

[Anonymous No.2550715]

>>2550241
>Moon
I'd hesitate to call it an RPG, seeing as how it attempts to subvert that at every turn.

[Anonymous No.2550838]

>>2544114
Not retro but Star Ocean 2 for PS2 is a masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.2550853]

>>2550838
>Not retro
Then shut up. There is no Star Ocean 2 on PS2, moron. Also
>masterpiece
>lol 4D space simulation the whole time
Fuck off you jizz gargling faggot.

[Anonymous No.2550860]

>>2550853
kek i discussed gargling jizz on this board the other day... my slurs have caught on.

Also whatever it was called ... til the end of time or something.

[Anonymous No.2550872]

>>2550860
>look at me memeing
>I'm the first one to meme this meme

[Anonymous No.2550878]

>>2550872
:)

[Anonymous No.2550883]

>>2545986
>LoD had such a fascinating world, what with all these species who supposedly all had the same mythical origin

Yeah, this I can agree with but my problem with LoD is that it didn't go in depth with any of the things they introduced which is a shame because in the end I wanted to learn more about the world. And let's be honest the entire Dragon Campaign lore could have easily been expanded on if they truly cared. Still one of my personal favs

[Anonymous No.2550926]

>>2550241
>Moon

I feel for the guy who's translating that.

[Anonymous No.2551007]

>>2550715
but moon calls itself an RPG

[Anonymous No.2551118]

>>2550926
That part is a joke. The game has a fair amount of text, less than your average JRPG though.

>>2551007
Almost like a joke or something. And actually it's a "remix rpg adventure".

[Anonymous No.2551479]

>>2550241
>Tengai Makyou zero
>Top tier story

I have to respectfully disagree with this.
If you say that the story is handled well I'm with you, but to say it has a good or inspiring storyline or characters is a bit too much.

[Anonymous No.2551495]

>>2551479
Wow, you're the first person I've ever met to ever disagree that TMZ has a really good story/characters.

It's not on the level of Shining Force or Popolocrois 2, actually, nevertheless Popolocrois 2, but it's still very good.

[Anonymous No.2551506]

>>2551495
Don't get me wrong, it's handled very well and I really like the writing in general especially because I'm still a beginner in moonrunes and can understand it fairly well.
While I don't really like most party members, especially Subaru because she's an annoying little kid, I really liked the villains, with Akamaru being my favorite one, but again, the story isn't really that interesting even though it's handled well and it's supported by a relatively strong cast of characters.

At the end of the day it's still the usual formula of "ancient evil awakens VS destined warrior and his party" and it's like this from the very beginning with little to no twists.
Though maybe I'm biased because I went in expecting some hidden masterpiece when the game's just okay in general, loved the atmosphere and general semi open world, if it had a better battle system I would probably have enjoyed it more.

[Anonymous No.2551512]

>>2551506
It was mostly execution that I praised it yeah. I personally rate execution higher than originality itself.

I figured if one were looking for originality I'd say the "it's own tier" would be the place that you'd look for.

[Anonymous No.2551517]

>>2551512
>I figured if one were looking for originality I'd say the "it's own tier" would be the place that you'd look for.

I agree on that, also because I realized it was rather snobby of me to criticize a game because it's not original enough especially because as you we agreed, TMZ has really good execution in its simplicity and that is already a very good thing.
>>2545754
>Anyway, Saga Frontier 2 had a novel? I need a link to this pronto.
Title is サガフロンティア〈2〉ヴァージニア・ナイツ物語, though I would personally suggest you to also read the SaGa Frontier 2 Perfect Works because the Novel is basically a retelling of the game with parts of the plot they cut out, Perfect Works has amazing in depth explanations of the world and lore.

[Anonymous No.2551572]

>>2542289
Stay away from Toriyama related stuff faggot.

[HGOP No.2552190]

>>2542289
This fucking game, man.

I have been playing it for the first time, it's unreal. Production values are ace, the story is decent, but the atmosphere is lovely. Reminds me of a not-/vr/ game that has the same sort of feel.

[Anonymous No.2552937]

i am tempted to get Phantasy star IV, do i need to play the previous 3 to understand the story? is it any good?

[Anonymous No.2552979]

>>2547494
what's sad is that the richest 1% irl really are part of some sort of demonic blood cult and we should probably murder them all if we knew what was good for us and gave a shit about starving orphans and dying revolutionary miludas and sacrificial tetas

but instead we play videogames and jack off to a lot of internet porn

[Anonymous No.2553067]

>>2552937
I'd say 2 is the most related, but you don't need to really.

Oh hell yes it's good.

[Anonymous No.2553085]

>>2552937
You don't need to, but it's recommended.

[Anonymous No.2553164]

>>2553067
do the fisrt 4 form a big story together or independent from each other?

[Anonymous No.2553171]

>>2552190
NiER?

[HGOP No.2553638]

>>2553171
No, Crimson Shroud. AKA one of the best RPGs on the 3DS

[Anonymous No.2553667]

>>2553164
Think Breath of Fire in that they are related but have huge time gaps.

3 is a side story that doesn't do much. It's also the weakest entry.

[Anonymous No.2553689]

>>2544202
>Why did Ganon never learn that there will always be some shit-for-brains kid who will seal or kill him, and just murder the little fucker while he's helpless.

He needs link and zelda to bring the other pieces of the triforce to him, so that he can extract and use them.

>why did someone make a whole park full of killer dinosaurs

hubris and something about a flea circus.

[Anonymous No.2553691]

>>2544234
even tolkien left plotholes in LOTR. somethinng about eagles...

[Anonymous No.2553720]

>>2545890
>It really makes you wonder what happened in the three years between FF4 and FF6

1991 was the first year of the so called "lost decade", japan's great economic collapse.

>Yet the end of the game is very hopeful, having a lot of faith in humanity's indomitable spirit even in the ruined world.

A sense of "we're fucked, but we're going to break through anyway" is common in media from 90s japan.

[Anonymous No.2553817]

>>2544202
>Christ you colossal fag, these are video games, it's fiction, a story meant to entertain or make a point. If everyone thought rationally and planned things out like a normal person, the game would be over immediately and no one would have any fun. If something about a game is really stupid or legitimately doesn't make sense, pointing that out is fine, but just nitpicking things because "Ugh, it's not realistic!" makes you look like a pretentious asshole.

I understand video games that are meant to entertain, but if they're trying to make a point they're far from convincing me. Says a lot about their messages when their stories are full of holes. Yeah, I understand the concept of suspending one's disbelief, but when so many JRPG main villains act like idiots, it's very hard for me to take the stories seriously. With non-serious games like Mario, I can overlook realism issues in the stories because those games aren't mean to be taken seriously. If game is to be taken seriously, its flaws must be taken into account as well. Otherwise, it's just dishonesty.

[Anonymous No.2553876]

>>2553720

post apocalyptica is common theme in all media of Japan since the bomb....

I mean talk about an annihilation complex.

[Anonymous No.2553916]

>>2545890
>a Japanese story about a hyper-advanced alien race visiting Earth, helping humans develop some major technologies, then going into hibernation so as not to interfere with humanity's growth... but the villain is an alien who wants to colonize Japan, I mean Earth...

What the fuck are you talking about?

There's nothing specifically "Japanese" about FF4's story. All those sci-fi tropes are aped from American alien movies like War of the Worlds and Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.

[Anonymous No.2553919]

>>2553876
Because post-apocalyptic fiction is so uncommon outside Japan, right?

Face it: Japan doesn't have a respectable artistic tradition, or anything they can truly call their own. They are imitators, not innovators.

[Anonymous No.2553949]

>>2553919
>Japan doesn't have a respectable artistic tradition, or anything they can truly call their own.
I know this is 4chan but please, stop posting retarded shit like this.

[Anonymous No.2553958]

>>2544202
>Why didn't Sephiroth just fly away? Or destroy the opening to the crater?
Because he wanted to have one last fight with Cloud. It was personal.

>Why did Shinra create a super soldier stronger than anything on the planet with cells from an evil alien that might still be alive?
Because large, powerful corporations with dubious moral standards do dumb shit all the time. Look at EA's marketing division.

>Why didn't Exdeath close the opening to the Void? Or seal them in one area?
It's likely that he couldn't do that because of how the Void works.

>Why didn't Kuja kill Zidane when they met at the beginning of the game?
He thought he was so weak he could take him out anytime and he wasn't going to be dangerous. Overconfidence.

>Why didn't Queen Brahe just keep Garnet under lock and key at all times?
Because people don't always make pure rational/utilitarian decisions related to people they have family or emotional bonds to. You're thinking of the Borg.

>Why didn't Zemus take control of Cecil as well as Golbez when Cecil was a dark knight?
He tried and Cecil passed his Will saving throw.

>Why didn't Golbez kill Cecil himself before he became a paladin, literally the only thing that could defeat him?
Because he was his fucking brother.

>Why didn't Golbez or Zemus kill FuSoYa?
Who told you they didn't try and fail?

>Why didn't Exdeath just kill the Light Warriors right when he was released from the seal?
Overconfidence? Lack of a full awareness of the situation? Exdeath is a tree, he probably doesn't think in human terms.

>Why didn't Ultimecia just have Edea go to Esthar City undercover, become chummy with Laguna, go into space and then release Adel?
She didn't trust Laguna. I mean, would you?

[Anonymous No.2553976]

>>2552979
if you make more than 34k per year YOU are the richest 1% in the entire world

[Anonymous No.2554584]

>>2553949
>stop posting retarded shit like this
Prove me wrong.

Name ANY Japanese artistic work in the last hundred years that isn't a play or a novel, and I guarantee I can name an American work that it's derived from.

Astroboy? Pinocchio.
Princess Mononoke? Dances With Wolves.
Ghost in the Shell? Bladerunner.
Final Fantasy? Dungeons & Dragons.
Fist of the North Star? Road Warrior.
Kamen Rider? Spiderman.

[Anonymous No.2554627]

SMRPG didn't have a great story, but the dialogue in that game is tops. In a genre where there are so many games that "don't take themselves too seriously", SMRPG is pretty much the only one that truly fits that expression.

[Anonymous No.2554664]

>>2554584
Okami, Katamary Damacy, anything based on buddhism, anything based on taoism, DBZ, seven samurai.

[Anonymous No.2554705]

>>2553976
And where are we getting that stat from? Global economic data is RIDDLED with misinformation and outdated stats.

They don't even take self-employed earners into consideration into a great deal of these projections for lack of data - and there are some obscenely rich entrepreneurs out there.

[Anonymous No.2554732]

>>2554584
>Prove me wrong.
Not him, but you're just trolling. You may not like Japanese art or culture (and I'm certainly no expert) but just dismissing an entire people and their culture with a hand wave is completely foolish. The country was almost totally isolated from outside influence for 250 years beginning with the Tokugawa Shogunate, they developed their own unique art and culture which Westerners became fascinated with (and still are) when Japan relaxed it's borders in 1853.

[Anonymous No.2554738]

>>2554584
>Astroboy? Pinocchio.
>Princess Mononoke? Dances With Wolves.
>Ghost in the Shell? Bladerunner.
>Final Fantasy? Dungeons & Dragons.
>Fist of the North Star? Road Warrior.
>Kamen Rider? Spiderman.
It's almost like humans all across the world have common ideas that we express through our stories and shared culture, as though these themes are how we explore our humanity.

[Anonymous No.2554747]

>>2554584
>Final Fantasy
>derived from D&D
Apart of the first FF, which others? Because I'd kill for a FF game where I can actually roll my party instead of being handed a bunch of ragtag goons.

[Anonymous No.2554765]

>>2554747
Don't be silly, FF (like all JRPGs) is a direct descendent of Ultima and Wizardry, which are computer RPGs that mimic D&D campaigns and freely rip off many, many elements straight from the rulebooks.

[Anonymous No.2554771]

>>2554747
Honestly, FF's much more from Dragon Quest than D&D, though the class inspiration came from there (specifically, Fighter/Mage/Cleric/Ranger/Thief).

I don't even know why he said FF, from the start it was derivative of works that were more towards the point he was trying to make. DQ should be mentioned of Wizardry, Ultima, and D&D.

>I'd kill for a FF game where I can actually roll my party instead of being handed a bunch of ragtag goons
Unfortunately this will probably never happen. The Tactics games are probably the closest, and that's a stretch.

[Anonymous No.2554780]

>>2554765
At which point does a derived work cease to be a ripoff? Because according to your logic, never. The next FF could be about Rainbow Dash fighting Dalai Lama with DmC mechanics, yet you'd still decry it as a D&D ripoff. Not even a FF fan.

[Anonymous No.2554823]

>>2544331
You mean every other one that you've played.

[Anonymous No.2554825]

Better question, what RPGs/JRPGs have the best storytelling?

[Anonymous No.2554830]

>>2554825
Ultima V: Lazarus?

[Anonymous No.2557197]

>>2553817
"messages" are elementary school stuff tbh.

[Anonymous No.2557406]

>animu-avatarfag is on /vr/

Everything is ruined.

[Anonymous No.2557656]

>>2547361
Are there any other good scifi RPGs?

[Anonymous No.2557657]

>>2557406
This place is fucked, man. I'm leaving to reddit.

[Anonymous No.2557658]

What are the best sci-fi RPGs?

[Anonymous No.2557684]

>>2545986
It's a bland fantasy game with a bland fantasy plot starring a bland fantasy cast (Oh look, yet another a spiky haired faggot with a sword followed by a fetishized slut, genki girl and big bruiser guy! Wow, so original and diverse!) set in a bland fantasy universe with a QTE gimmick that grew stale rather quickly. This game was mediocre at its best and downright laughable at its worst, and anyone who thinks it comes close to the top tier stuff the PS1 has to offer should to be laughed out of this board.

[Anonymous No.2557698]

>>2557658
Star Ocean 1 and 2, especially the latter.

[Anonymous No.2557726]

>>2557658
Phantasy Star IV.

[Anonymous No.2557795]

>>2557658
I don't know about "the best" but I definitely recommend trying it out.

[Anonymous No.2557803]

>>2557658
There aren't very many retro ones that haven't already been mentioned, but I guess FF8 sort of counts as sci-fi right?

[Anonymous No.2557821]

>>2557658

[Anonymous No.2558019]

>>2544331
Mother 3 blows Eathbound out of the water in every category.

[Anonymous No.2558025]

>>2557656
>>2557658

Phatnasy Star is generalally pretty Sci fi compared to it's contemporaries

[Anonymous No.2558047]

>>2554584
>Road Warrior
>Pinocchio
>American

[Anonymous No.2558052]

>>2557658
Pic related is breddy gud if you can get over the fact that it's a literal weaboo game.

[Anonymous No.2558124]

>>2544356
>>2544359
I dropped Xenogears right around when Bart's ship gets destroyed and Fei goes into the jail or whatever and has to fight a bunch of people in a row. That's very vague but I don't remember the specifics, it was like a year ago.

At what point does the story pick up? So far it feels like the story is pretty good but it feels like there's a lot of long interludes of awful JRPG bullshit and filler in between really amazing story sequences and it's getting kind of annoying. Am I looking at it the wrong way? I know the first disc is supposed to be better by far.

[Anonymous No.2558148]

>>2558124

Everything starts to come together pretty soon. If you can make it through the part you're at it's really worth it.

[Anonymous No.2558152]

>>2558148
Will do.

I love the world and soundtrack and such, and pretty much everything other than the actual gameplay itself, which as I understand is pretty much the general consensus on the game.

What's the deal with all the cut content in the game? Isn't there a gigantic document detailing how the plot was originally supposed to go before Square leeched off resources for FF8?

[Anonymous No.2558185]

>>2558152

The soundtrack is absolutely amazing. One of Yasunori Mitsuda's best work. I think the gear battles are actually kind of fun. Much more than the character battles for sure.

I don't know of any specific document that details the uncut content, but there is a book called Perfect Works that expands on the Xenogears universe.

[Anonymous No.2558192]

>>2558185
>Perfect Works
That's what it was. I remember talking about it with people way back when I was actually playing the game. I'll give it a shot after I finish Xenogears, I know it's in Japanese but there are apparently translations floating around out there so who knows.

[Anonymous No.2558195]

>>2558192

Yes, there's an English translation for it :)

[Anonymous No.2558429]

>>2544349
yes, I think the primary symptom of being drunk on power is being retarded. for every ultra precise Stalin there are at least 40 boneheaded Che Guevara's.

History is full of powerful men (and women) going full retard at the height of their powers and bringing the whole thing crashing down.

[Anonymous No.2558442]

>>2550241
how many of those actually got international releases? I know about the Shining Force games, Dewprism, and Marl Kingdom, but Popolocrois? wasn't that back when Sony refused to even piss on 2D games?

[Anonymous No.2558448]

>>2554584
are you serious? as if any of those referenced works are original, in themselves! no human being, alive or dead, has ever had a 100% original idea. everything we do is a remix of ideas an inspirations we pick up from some other places. Seriously, those japanese works have extremely japanese elements, why is the 10% that came from a Western source suddenly the sole inspiration?

also, GitS has nothing to do with Blade Runner, apart from being Cyberpunk.

[Anonymous No.2558468]

>>2557658
Depends on the themes.

Cyber Knight/Cyber Knight II is standard sci-fi with awesome mech fights and space exploration.
Phantasy Star series is sci-fi mixed with sword and board fantasy.
Xenogears is sci-fi mixed with G-Gundam, Evangelion and Jung
Metal Max is sci-fi mixed with desert punk, HnK and tanks
Star Ocean is sci-fi mixed with dirty space-knife ears, a pickpocket simulator and space magic.
SaGa 1/2/3+SaGa Frontier are sci-fi a-la Hideyuki Kikuchi(Cyber City Oedo, Vampire Hunter D novels and OVAs) so expect spaceships, parallel dimensions, robots, chainsaws and nukes.

[Anonymous No.2558805]

>>2546062
For me that would be Beyond the Beyond.

[Anonymous No.2558853]

>>2558468

IMO, the early SaGa games are inspired by Gamma World, especially the way mutant / esper characters learn abilities. It's almost completely identical.

Kawazu has mentioned that he played a lot of tabletop games growing up, so it's entirely possible Gamma World was one of them.

One of the major worlds in SaGa 1 is even based on a post-apocalyptic setting.

[Anonymous No.2558860]

>>2558468
Lagrange Point, it was recently translated.

[Anonymous No.2559072]

>>2547389
>you will never talk with the ministers to find out more about the Dragon Campaign, Wingly beliefs, or Soa.

I mean filling in the blanks with your imagination is kind of fun, but this game really needed a whole lot more.

[Anonymous No.2559231]

>>2542265
>pic unrelated

fucking loser

[Anonymous No.2559284]

>>2544049
>>2549265
>>2559231

OP here to say that I didn'trealize this thread was still up. The three above posters correctly identified this as a shitpost.

All 70 other people in this thread can all go home.

[Anonymous No.2559305]

>>2559284
>I didn't expect actual discussion to come out of my shitpost!

Welcome to /vr/. Now fuck off.

[Anonymous No.2559612]

>>2559305
classic 4chin

[Anonymous No.2559623]

>>2558429
Most of the rulers in history, dumb and smart, were brought down by betrayal and not because of some ragtag groups of conspicuous assassins fighting their way through their defenses and killing them in honorable battles. Even the most inept rulers opt for escape whenever possible if their situations got hairy.

Having retarded villians in every JRPG gets old. It's just a convenience for the story writers to write simple-minded villains. A villain that thinks about self-preservation would be too complicated for them to write.

[Anonymous No.2560024]

>>2559623
>A villain that thinks about self-preservation would be too complicated for them to write.
You are looking at it from a perspective of someone who knows where the overall plot is headed and knows at the end you are going to win, because it is a video game.

Instead, look at it from the perspective of the villain:
You started out small, either a sorcerer controlling things from the background, a low-level but ambitious military commander, or simply some prick who got lucky. Your position in life amounts to either a scary name in everyone's children's books, or some assistant to an ambitious but retarded leader. To add to that there is some group of snot-nosed emo little teenagers trying to get in your way because you're a "bad guy." Well after having numerous plans thwarted by the heroes, you have somehow reached your goal: ultimate power. You proceed to become a godlike being capable of feats few can imagine. If you want people to die, they die with a thought. You want to bend the world to your liking, you can do that in an afternoon. The world is your plaything and no one can stop you. Then, the same little group of fags show up and demand you stop. You, who has tapped into he power at the very core of the universe and seemingly ascended as a mortal being, are getting talked down to and threatened by a bunch of kids and their crazy mascot. Why should you run? The best they got is some high-level spells, good armor and friendship. At that point, in your omniscient eyes they are no bigger than ants(maybe literally). So you figure, why not fight? You owe them some payback and they seem like they want some punishment. You duke it out and soon you learn that they are much stronger than they appear(or they got some legendary weapon or help from some cheating outside force).

[Anonymous No.2560040]

>>2560024
I didn't read this mountain of text but I'm pretty sure I would have been enlightened if I had.

[Anonymous No.2560050]

>>2560024
(cont.)
You realize this may go down hill, but also know that you still have ultimate power and they don't, and you would be the biggest laughingstock in history if you ran from a group of flamboyant kids(plus, you may have made your super-cool hell fortress impenetrable from both the inside and outside, because why the fuck would you, a god, ever need to run away?). So you stick it out and pull out all the stops, hitting them with your hardest spells and waiting for them to go down. But they don't, and you get your ass kicked, and realize in your last moments that maybe you should have been so blinded by ultimate power and thought things out a little clearer.

Yeah, this is a cliche we've seen over and over in all forms of media, but that doesn't make it any less true. Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Oda Nobunaga, Adolf Hitler, those were all real world people who gained huge amounts of power and became blinded by it, either making poor decisions themselves or absorbing all of their thoughts into gaining even more power and neglected the situation around them. Hell, making every villain Ozymandias would be less interesting(and realistic) and would get old even faster because players would get angry that their endgame was ruined because the villain had a backdoor plan. Simply because you think a villain having meticulously calculated every possible outcome makes the game better written isn't true, it means you're a nitpicking faggot who can't enjoy a fun endgame and needs everything to conform to some stupid, personal standard of story.

[Anonymous No.2560078]

>>2560050
Didn't read that either, but I agree with everything.

[Anonymous No.2560627]

>>2558124

Anon, with Xeno you have to realize that Takahashi and co.'s ambition was greater than the budget. Had it to it's full completion, we would be still playing the series to this day. The plans for it were IMMENSE.

[Anonymous No.2561048]

>>2558853
Very possible considered how much of a tabletop nerd he is.
>>2558860
Right, thanks anon, Lagrange Point is a must for Sci-Fi RPG.

[Anonymous No.2561181]

>>2560627
xenogears has its issues and lots of them, but i'll always appreciate it for being so god damn ambitious. i miss when we had stuff like xenogears.

also, time to drop my copypasta again. enjoy~

[Anonymous No.2561183]

>>2561181
>Xenogears: 1998, PS
Episode V

>Xenogears 2: 2000, PS
Episode II. Another last hurrah of 32bit JRPGs in the twilight days of the console. Commercially overlooked but fondly remembered by aficionados. Just like XG1 suffered from neglect towards the end of its development cycle because the bigwigs were throwing bodies to the FF8 dev team, XG2 was cut short because of FF9.

>Xenogears Episode I: 2003, PS2
Huge success: Released between FF10 (2001) and FF12 (2006) to a starving JRPG fandom. Rebranding brought new fans to the series who never played the first two games.

>Xenogears Episode V: 2005, PSP
Rebranded and polished port of the first Xenogears game. The series' random naming and numbering sense is widely mocked by press and gamers alike.

>Xenogears Episode II: 2005, PSP
Another rebranded and polished port, released half a year later. Fandom reaches new heights between old fans and new fans, eagerly waiting for...

>Xenogears Episode IV: 2006, PS2
Generally considered the peak of the series. With the FF12 project hitting roadblock after roadblock in development, eventually being pushed to the PS3 where it killed the FF13 development (thank fuck), Square Enix threw its everything at XG4.

>Xenogears Episode III: 2009, PS3
With gaming as a whole having moved away from the JRPG genre and FF12 (PS3) being lauded as the glorious return to form of the former supreme JRPG franchise, XG3 fails to repeat the success it had during the PS2 era.

>Xenogears Episode II: 2011, PSV
Port. One of the best-selling launch titles.

>Xenogears Episode IV: 2012, PSV
Port.

>Xenogears Episode VI: 2013, PS3
The final episode. With a newly invigorated Final Fantasy franchise feeding the hype machine for the upcoming FF13 and the execs once again throwing bodies at the development of the main series, XG6 suffers the same fate as the first game. The cycle is complete.

[Anonymous No.2561209]

>>2561181
Bro's
>>2561183
Xenogears basically should have been a 50 episode anime series. Way too much exposition, not nearly enough gameplay.

Absolutely one of the worst JRPG's I've ever played. It has its head so far up its ass I'm pretty sure it did a complete loop around.

[Anonymous No.2561482]

>>2561209
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with him? It's hard to tell since you called him your bro for his high opinion of the game, then you give your low opinion of it.

[Anonymous No.2561568]

>>2561209
I feel like if you're playing a JRPG for the gameplay you are generally missing the point.

>Random encounters
>turn based fighting
>walking slowly around in a large world and talking to people.

If you honestly wanted more of the above, I kind of feel sorry for you. The stories are and always have been the only reason to play most if not all JRPGs.

>inb4 muh boss battles
Look, guys, it's the story that contextualizes the play. Without it you would just be defeating a meaningless enemy without knowing why you were fighting him and why he would be considered a boss.

[Anonymous No.2561628]

>>2561568
>I feel like if you're playing a JRPG for the gameplay you are generally missing the point.

Jesus, someone playing a game for the GAMEPLAY?
REALLY?

>There's people
>on /vr/
>who play games for the gameplay
>2000+16-1

Unbelievable.

[Anonymous No.2561634]

>>2561628
Did you really ignore the second half where I explained that the "gameplay" in JRPGs is generally shitty.

Literally the only reason anyone plays JRPGs is for plot. There are very few examples where the games are actually "fun" or have interesting gameplay.

[Anonymous No.2561664]

>>2561634
Shouldn't have responded to him tbh, shitting on Xenogears is NOT ok, and is proof of your pleb and/or troll status.

[Anonymous No.2561668]

>>2561664
I'm not shitting on xenogears, tbh. I'm saying people don't play RPGs for the gameplay, tbh, tbh.

[Anonymous No.2561679]

>>2561668
tbh xenogays is pretty shit

[Anonymous No.2561681]

>>2561628
He's right though, rpg gameplay is monotonous at best.

[Anonymous No.2561682]

>>2561679
Open for debate but the gamplay to story ratio isn't a valid criticism

[Anonymous No.2563558]

>>2558124
>I know the first disc is supposed to be better by far.
I for one disagree, while disc 2 is literally 90% exposition, it was by far the most interesting part of the game.

[Anonymous No.2563564]

>>2561681
Play better RPGs then.

[Anonymous No.2563783]

>tfw valkyrie profile 3: hrist maybe