/vr/ - Retro Games

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Zelda II - The Clone Wars Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:13:56 2015 No.2536408 [Reply] [Original]

For a game that was supposedly the black sheep of the series, it seems like it spawned an awful lot of clones. On the NES / Famicom alone, there was Battle of Olympus, Rambo and arguably Faxanadu. Was Zelda II a more popular title than people tend to let on?

I'm curious just how many other games were potentially inspired by this title, or are at least incidentally similar.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:27:36 2015 No.2536441 It was a popular title. Zelda II is only seen as a black sheep in today's light because there was no hard established formula at the time, but now there is.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:34:01 2015 No.2536459
File: 5 KB, 288x288, XanaduMSX_041[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Zelda 2 is actually a bit of a knock-off of the Falcom games on PC-98 and MSX. Faxanadu actually means Famicom Xanadu although it was developed by Hudson I think. Ys also (Zelda 1 took some inspiration from Ys in the same way)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:41:40 2015 No.2536476 >>2536408 Even Castlevania2: Simons Quest reminded me a lot of Zelda 2

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:45:51 2015 No.2536485
File: 266 KB, 700x933, copertina-fronte1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I actually saw Zelda II on the shelf at K-Mart and bought an NES just to play it. It looked like (and was) a really fantastic game.

Not long after I borrowed a friend's copy of the first game, and enjoyed that one thoroughly as well.

I didn't play any later game in this series, but did play through Faxanadu (another great one that kept me up late at night).

By the same token, I also played Castlevania II before the first game, and didn't consider it flawed in any way. I actually though Simon's Quest was more interesting than its predecessor (which was just a straight platformer, without the adventure game elements). I was a big D&D buff those days, so anything with adventure or RPG elements was a plus. The only later game I played in this series is Castlevania Bloodlines on the Genesis, but that again was just a platformer. Not really much interested in any more of those. Need some more of these sweet platform/adventure/RPG games...

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:50:25 2015 No.2536497

>>2536485
>Need some more of these sweet platform/adventure/RPG games...

Well they're a little on the easy side (though that can be mitigated slightly in some of them) but the metroidvanias might appeal to you. Platform/adventure/rpgs is what they were designed to be.

I played CV1 before Simon's Quest but always loved SQ more as well. It's not as challenging, but feels more like a big adventure.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:50:59 2015 No.2536498

>>2536441
this is not true, I grew up in the time when Zelda II was new, and it was met with much more disdain that it has now. The thing is though that while it was not successful here in the west, it was massively popular in japan, so that is why you have all the clones.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:58:53 2015 No.2536520 >>2536408 It wasn't considered a black sheep until people who had played OOT as their first Zelda played it. And it arguably even still isn't a black sheep since Zelda 2 has way more in common with the 3d Zelda games than 1 or LTTP does.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 13:59:17 2015 No.2536523 >>2536459 >first zelda game was released in 1986 >first Ys game was released in 1987 >zelda was influenced by Ys how does this work?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:05:18 2015 No.2536532

>>2536459
Ys I came out a year after Zelda 1 released in Japan, so that last part doesn't make sense. Hydlide influenced both games just as Tower of Druaga influenced them all. Xanadu has side-scrolling exploration but also overhead battles in the vein of Ultima; I doubt Romancia had any effect since that was a sub-par October of '86 release (Zelda II came out in January the next year).

Namco's Dragon Buster likely had a part to play in Zelda II's development, but it's also simply that Nintendo was making side-scrollers of various sorts at that point and figured a Zelda with platforming and a JRPG-style overworld would be interesting.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:05:25 2015 No.2536534

>>2536520
people like you that blame everything on fans of OoT need to grow the fuck up. That isn't even remotely true, it was the black sheep even in it's time, people expected the second game to be like the first, and it wasn't, people got confused and didn't like it. This is what actually happened and why LttP went back to a formula more like the first.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:06:50 2015 No.2536535

>Zelda II
It's fun, maybe one of the best Zelda, until the part you are supposed to get the hammer. Devs need to understand going back to square 1 when you die isn't fun or "epicly hard!!XD", it's just tedious for the wrong reasons. It make me want to savestate like a scum.
And yes, that mean only the beginning is really fun.
So, what will be a fun Zelda II clone?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:11:06 2015 No.2536543

>>2536535
I don't think anyone was thinking of the "epicly hard" angle back then, game design for home games that were actually specifically made to be played at home was in it's infancy and there were a lot of mistakes that were made simply because it was a new medium.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:12:49 2015 No.2536548 >>2536520 You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. People were shitting on Zelda 2 since the day it came out.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:16:27 2015 No.2536551

>>2536520
>Zelda 2 has way more in common with the 3d Zelda games than 1 or LTTP does.
>or LTTP does
What? If anything it's LTTP that has more in common with the 3D Zeldas since it literally introduced elements that would become common in most Zelda games from that point on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:16:43 2015 No.2536552 >tfw the only Zelda i ever liked is Zelda II

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:17:49 2015 No.2536558

>>2536534
You are living in a goddamn revisionist fantasy when you say people didn't like Zelda 2 at release, I was fucking there in line buying it after waiting two weeks after it sold out.

It remained a well-loved part of the series until people started associating the phrase "black sheep" with it, which is just factually wrong for two reasons I've already stated, and I lay the blame for it at OOT's feet because of the legion of "Zelda 2 sucks, OOT rules" that appear everytime it gets mentioned on the internet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:19:04 2015 No.2536560 >>2536551 Such as?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:19:52 2015 No.2536564

>>2536535
>Devs need to understand going back to square 1 when you die isn't fun or "epicly hard!!XD",

The thing is, it used to be that we replayed games multiple times with the goal of getting better each time. Then shitty kids like you came along and if you can't do something in one try and have to actually try again you throw little tantrums about how hard the game is and then save scum your way through it. Now you're the majority and most games are designed to be piss easy or have such meaningless fail states that no one ever has to feel challenged.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:21:59 2015 No.2536569

>>2536558
I'm not the guy you've been talking to, but I distinctly remember Zelda 2 being looked down upon since it came out. Maybe we're from different places and people in your area generally had a positive opinion of it, but your experience is far from universal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:22:24 2015 No.2536570 Generational Divide: the Thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:22:29 2015 No.2536571 >>2536564 but that was never the case in Zelda it was more about exploration than "how fast can you do this in on go!" even then MM done the whole restart thing right anyway,

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:26:22 2015 No.2536579

>>2536558
just because you hadn't heard all the negative opinions yet two weeks after it sold out doesn't mean they weren't there. Since you lived in the time period you should also remember that such things spread much slower before the internet. I distinctly remember, at the time, which I also lived through, many people disliking it because they wanted more Zelda 1.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:26:58 2015 No.2536581 How can the second game in a franchise be a "black sheep"? There's only two.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:29:43 2015 No.2536591 >>2536581 People making shit up years afterwards because they have some weird fascination with trying to be on the right sight of their imagined history.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:30:05 2015 No.2536592 >>2536564 Except Ys IS hard and DO this right. When you fight a boss, there is a save pillar just before. not 10 minutes before.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:32:01 2015 No.2536602

During Adventure of Link's era, there was no controversy. People played it and loved it and it spawned a lot of copycats because of its popularity. The hate for the game didn't start until later generations when fans looked back on the ensemble of games and turned their nose up at the one that wasn't "What the zelda franchise is supposed to be"

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:32:02 2015 No.2536603

>>2536579
I think region had a lot to do with it. I'm another that remembered Zelda II being badly received. But at the same time, everyone I knew then seemed pretty cool with Simon's Quest.

I was quite shocked when the internet came along and I realized that a lot of people really hate that game.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:33:37 2015 No.2536608 >>2536591 I agree with the term "black sheep" being stupid, but the people that are actually standing by an imagined history are people like you.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:36:21 2015 No.2536612

>>2536592
The entire purpose of Death Mountain in Zelda 2 is to be a maze of endurance. If you just save where you left off then you've removed the point.

What you're essentially saying is that you like challenge, but only when there is no penalty. Which means it isn't a challenge.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:37:23 2015 No.2536616 >>2536612 Ys IS challenge incarnate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:38:59 2015 No.2536618 Anyway, Shiggy said he doesn't consider Zelda II part of the series canon and that "It wasn't even produced by the same development team as LOZ. Zelda II was more of a bonus game than anything.:

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:40:59 2015 No.2536624

>>2536564
while I think the people that apply modern gaming design to retro games are annoying and need to take a step back and think for a bit for reason I already stated, I think people like that blow off legitimate mistakes in designing that were inevitable just because it was a new medium as "WELL GAMES WERE SUPPOSED TO BE HARD BACK THEN, U DIDN"T LIVE TRU THE TYMES!!!!" are equally obnoxious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:41:24 2015 No.2536625 I get it, I get it. Those women who restore your health in the towns are supposed to be youjo even though NoA pretended they weren't.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:42:30 2015 No.2536628

>>2536560
>Gameplay elements like the magic meter and spin attack
>The whole "Get 3 things, then get 8 other things to git the Master Sword!" schtick
>Hints becoming less and less cryptic, even to the point where bombable walls are now obvious
>Grass cutting
>Modernizing things like the bottle, map, and spell systems etc.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:45:24 2015 No.2536637

>>2536628
>Hints becoming less and less cryptic, even to the point where bombable walls are now obvious
>implying this was a bad thing
yeah, because not being able to progress because you can't figure out the clues is such a great thing, games really need more of this

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:46:03 2015 No.2536639 >>2536625 >youjo Say it in English, weeaboo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:49:12 2015 No.2536652 Zelda fans are the worst, they think their favorite game did everything first. I'm surprised no one has called it a proto-Dark Souls yet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:50:19 2015 No.2536654 >>2536652 > called it a proto-Dark Souls yet. the game or the fanbase?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:51:00 2015 No.2536657

>>2536628
oh jeez, the follow up games introduced more game play elements and updated some of the game's systems? You don't say, what a shocking development and a travesty to gaming everywhere. Because we all know that sequels aren't supposed to refine the elements of previous games at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:52:34 2015 No.2536661 >>2536652 >I'm surprised no one has called it a proto-Dark Souls yet. no, that's what the SotN fans claim about their game, though that comparison makes even less sense than comparing it to zelda.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:53:51 2015 No.2536664 >>2536652 No, [other popular game] fanbase is the worst!!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 14:57:00 2015 No.2536670 >>2536652 you could literally say something similar to this about any rabid fan base for anything, stop trying to drum up anger in the cheapest of ways possible, or at least go over to /mu/ instead if you want to do that.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:24:33 2015 No.2536738
File: 3 KB, 256x232, gargoylesquest2-comp-nes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I see Gargoyle's Quest compared to Zelda II a lot, even though Gargoyle's Quest is more like Mega Man. I believe it's even based on the same code.

As far as Game Boy goes, the closest thing we got to Zelda II was maybe Gargoyle's Quest, and the port of Battle of Olympus.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:31:30 2015 No.2536865 >>2536520 >Zelda 2 has way more in common with the 3d Zelda games than 1 or LTTP does. What the fuck are you talking about? All 3D Zeldas, except arguably Majora's Mask, is just a rehash of A Link to the Past.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:35:26 2015 No.2536873 >>2536738 TMNT 3 Radical Rescue

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:41:58 2015 No.2536883

>>2536535
You're supposed to keep playing until you get better.
Death Mountain isn't even that hard, it's basically the point where the game teaches you about the value of learning enemy patterns and threading carefully. You will die, but the repetition makes you learn and the enemies killed will make you level up, progressively making it easier for every try. It's not even a maze if you realize you just need to take the right path at every junction.

Death Mountain is a fucking joke in comparison to the Great Palace.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:45:20 2015 No.2536890 >>2536535 save state till you git gud

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:46:43 2015 No.2536896

>>2536883
there is nothing wrong with dying. I'm playing Wings of Vi nowaday, and I'm already at my 1106th death.
It's the fact you have to start from the temple, then go outside, then travel a cave, then go outside again, then finally be able to get to the point where you died last time.
It's not hard, it's just tedious for the wrong reason.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:50:36 2015 No.2536910 >>2536738 >I see Gargoyle's Quest compared to Zelda II a lot literally what

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:56:18 2015 No.2536920

>>2536883
>Death Mountain is a fucking joke in comparison to the Great Palace.

I disagree strongly that's it's even harder. it really depends what your leveled up to I guess.

I'd say gamers are more likely to make it to DM under-leveled than to make it all the way to Great Palace under-leveled. and if you can make it to GP you should have no trouble with the enemies in it. most of the challenge from it would be finding your way to the boss, which isn't even really that difficult since you can continue as much as you want from the start of the level.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:58:42 2015 No.2536924 >am watching a Game Grumps play through of this game as I type this Neat coincidence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 16:59:40 2015 No.2536930 >>2536924 >watching a Game Grump your mother should have aborted

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:02:09 2015 No.2536941 >>2536930 >caring this much about someone watching a video

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:05:51 2015 No.2536950 >>2536924 NICE! :)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:06:23 2015 No.2536954 File: 301 KB, 1024x768, zeliard6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >I'm curious just how many other games were potentially inspired by this title, or are at least incidentally similar. Zeliard. Very unappreciated title too

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:08:43 2015 No.2536959 >>2536523 first zelda wasn't a sidescroller btw zelda 1 was influenced by tower of druaga

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:10:15 2015 No.2536963

>>2536628
>Gameplay elements like the magic meter
Zelda II introduced the magic meter, anon.

>even to the point where bombable walls are now obvious
Which helped ruin the series, because there was no longer any thought to bomb usage, you'd just look for the crack and place a bomb. Sword tapping was a far better idea.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:11:53 2015 No.2536969 >>2536963 Don't modern games have both obvious cracks and sword tapping?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:13:19 2015 No.2536972 >>2536954 Very cool.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:15:17 2015 No.2536974

>>2536963
>Sword tapping was a far better idea.

It comes across as more creative, yeah. but as soon as you realize that it's possible that a wall is able to be bombed and the only way to figure that out is by sword-tapping, you start walking around monotonously and repetitively hitting your sword on every single wall. Which is arguably worse than the "obviousness" of a crack

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:16:58 2015 No.2536979 >>2536954 looks like a cool game. any more info?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:20:46 2015 No.2536984 File: 580 KB, 577x432, sorcerian.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What about Sorcerian?

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:22:24 2015 No.2536986

>>2536963
are you still talking about oot?
some trees have secret holes beside them that you can only find by placing a bomb, in an allusion to the old zeldas
I remember at least one bombable wall in spirit temple I think being indiscernible from the rest except for the sword clinging noise.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:25:03 2015 No.2536993 File: 8 KB, 320x208, sorcerianpce-5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2536984 I fucking love these graphics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:28:00 2015 No.2537001 File: 238 KB, 600x865, otw_final_cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] sword fapping: when Zelda player walks around banging his sword on every wall he passes I never even heard of this before. Bomb yes, but not this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:28:25 2015 No.2537002 >>2536612 >What you're essentially saying is that you like challenge, but only when there is no penalty. Which means it isn't a challenge. Challenge is a test of skill it's not a punishment because the game's designed stupid

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:29:13 2015 No.2537004 File: 11 KB, 640x400, zeliard_031.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2536979 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeliard

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:30:31 2015 No.2537010 >>2536984 >>2536993 >can't find a torrent anywhere benis!:D

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:45:09 2015 No.2537042 File: 870 KB, 986x1369, let me tell you about carthage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2536612 >challenge necessitates penalty

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:45:18 2015 No.2537043 >>2536974 Didn't say it was good, just that it was much better. At least sword tapping requires some effort on your part.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:48:59 2015 No.2537054 File: 371 KB, 1200x795, 1415122784835.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2536408 It was the first game my parents bought me new. Shit was like 80$ back then. Had to have made bank.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:52:53 2015 No.2537065 >>2536984 Really not the same kind of game, but Sorcerian is cool. >>2537010 Just got the DOS localization from Abandonia if you want something you can play in English. The Mega Drive version has a menu patch too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 17:54:06 2015 No.2537068 >>2537065 >Just got the DOS localization from Abandonia if you want something you can play in English. that version hurt my eyes.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 18:08:33 2015 No.2537107

>>2537043

yeah the bomb cracks are so obvious you may as well not even have a hidden door at all.

you can probably split the middle and make the cracks a bit less obvious by actually designing the dungeon walls better though

hell even looking at the map and making a guess about the lay out would work better

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 19:04:24 2015 No.2537231 File: 17 KB, 640x350, sorcerian_8.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2537068 But it has cool EGA gradients. Not quite Amiga quality, but better than CGA.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 19:07:15 2015 No.2537248

>>2536954
Zeliard came out the same year (1987), there's no way. And it's much more of a straight platformer than Zelda, and more inspired by Falcom and Japanese PC games. Zelda isn't responsible for every game with a life bar and a sword.

>>2536984
>What about Sorcerian?
Falcom pretty much invented the side scrolling RPG, and this also came out the same time on Japanese PCs. Gee, I wonder if Zelda was influenced by JPC games?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 19:21:45 2015 No.2537283 >>2537248 I think Game Arts' own debut Thexder (inspired by Atari's Major Havoc) was the main inspiration and reference for Zeliard, after which came Falcom and Namco.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 20:10:14 2015 No.2537390 >>2536498 It was big when it came out, there were kids who thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. Mario 2 and Zelda 2 were massively popular

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 20:17:28 2015 No.2537402 >>2536498 >it was met with much more disdain that it has now. that's just not true at all. at least not in America. >it was not successful here in the west now you're just making stuff up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 20:18:16 2015 No.2537405 >>2536873 Ehhhh. It's a little similar but Radical Rescue is waaaay easier and shorter than Zelda 2.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 20:19:42 2015 No.2537410 Lots of interesting stuff being mentioned in this thread, keep it up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 20:24:04 2015 No.2537418 >>2536498 >not successful here in the west Bitch please it was sold out continually in the US and was still the best-selling game of that year. It was popular as fuck.

Anonymous Mon Jul 13 21:52:40 2015 No.2537603

I remember finding my family's copy of Zelda II shoved into a closet sometime in the mid-90's. I pulled it out and found out my mother had hidden it away because she fucking hated it. She'd played though the first Zelda and a Link to the Past dozens of times, found everything and pretty much mastered them, but she couldn't stand Zelda II and wanted nothing to do with it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 22:10:57 2015 No.2537639 it was the "BLACK SHIP" because it was difrent from other 2d zelda tittles so people didnt welcome the game so well

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 22:19:10 2015 No.2537649 >>2537603 I see your mother was a big fan of James Rolfe back in the mid-90s. :^)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 22:25:28 2015 No.2537657 >>2537649 Ah right, because people only dislike things because of the AVGN, my mistake.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 22:55:52 2015 No.2537716 >>2536498 Bullshit kid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt4KG9ib8S4

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 23:05:01 2015 No.2537731 >>2536592 Ys is not hard you shitty little casual. The only challenging part of Ys is the vampire bat boss.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 23:08:56 2015 No.2537737 File: 17 KB, 640x400, Zeliard - MCGA.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2537231 MCGA is the best for zeliard

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 02:43:55 2015 No.2538201 >>2537731 harder than any Zelda though. By far.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 02:49:46 2015 No.2538205 I could never get used to the combat in Ys.

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 03:03:19 2015 No.2538228

>>2537737
Zeliard's DOS soundtrack is superior to the Japanese versions. Yes, even with the adlib. But especially with a MT-32.

http://vgmrips.net/packs/vgm/PC/Zeliard_%28IBM_PC_AT%2C_OPL%29/02%20Departure.mp3

Compared to this:

http://vgmrips.net/packs/vgm/Other/Zeliard_%28NEC_PC-8801%29/02%20Departure.mp3

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 03:20:23 2015 No.2538247 File: 1.07 MB, 320x240, NULL.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Zeliar DQ request%

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 04:21:07 2015 No.2538284 >>2538228 Oh my god. Both are decent, but dat fuggin OPL. It's like I'm really in 1992 again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 04:32:44 2015 No.2538301 >>2537737 That's just regular EGA Mode D.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 04:44:46 2015 No.2538310 >>2538205 same, and I also never thought the stories of the games were compelling enough to keep me interested.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 04:46:35 2015 No.2538313 >>2538247 wut?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 04:52:22 2015 No.2538314 >>2536738 >even though Gargoyle's Quest is more like Mega Man. what?...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 04:54:12 2015 No.2538317 >>2537001 are you 13?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 05:05:18 2015 No.2538329 File: 29 KB, 640x400, 30015-zeliard-dos-screenshot-a-forest-world-ega.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2538301 this is ega mode

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 05:23:20 2015 No.2538346

>>2538310
The things is though I remember getting at least half way through the first one many years ago yet I went back to it not long ago and I seriously don't know how I did it, to the point where I actually started wondering if I had ever played it to begin with.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 05:51:35 2015 No.2538365 >>2536523 >>2536532 Ys was in production longer than zelda was. Zelda happened to be released first.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 09:33:12 2015 No.2538535 >>2538329 That's EGA Mode F (640x200x16). The game in >>2537737 is EGA Mode D (320x200x16) which the vast majority of commercial games used.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 09:39:26 2015 No.2538541 File: 784 KB, 1343x2835, zelda.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >accusing anyone of ripping off Zelda as if Zelda wasn't already a rip-off

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 09:47:28 2015 No.2538548 >>2538541 Nice bait picture.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 09:48:03 2015 No.2538549 >>2538548 What about it is untrue, exactly?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 09:54:20 2015 No.2538556 >>2538548 Not even bait, I just find it funny how people are quick to accuse other companies of ripping off Nintendo when Nintendo are clearly "inspired" by other games themselves.

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 09:58:07 2015 No.2538557
File: 3 KB, 384x192, templeofapshai-trs80-2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2538549
someone did the overworld rpg thing before falcom, OH MAN THAT MEANS THEY ARE TOTALLY RIPPING THEM OFF SOMEONE SHOULD SUE HURR
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/dunjonquest/dunjonquest2.htm

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 10:00:04 2015 No.2538559

>>2538535
>>2537737
Ok, I see what he did now.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/zeliard/trivia

He's relying on the erroneous information on Mobygames. The game supports CGA, EGA 320x200 mode, EGA 640x200 mode, Tandy, and Hercules. MCGA was actually just a cut-down VGA found only on the IBM PS/2 Model 25 and 30.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 10:03:14 2015 No.2538562 >>2538557 This game was the forerunner of Epyx's Gateway to Apshai.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 10:10:13 2015 No.2538570 >>2538562 oh but then again dunjonquest ripped off dnd for PLATO systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnd_%28video_game%29

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 12:31:25 2015 No.2538789

I frankly don't even care who ripped off who. I mean, this happens in other medium like books and movies, even painting. We already know this for a very long time...
What matters, and the only thing that matters, is if the game is fun for me. I tired Dragon Buster in MAME and didn't enjoy it (then again I didn't like Pac-Land either). I tried Druaga a long time ago and thought it was boring. Mind you, I like other old things like Rogue, some text adventures, and various old arcade games like Galaxian and Defender. The actual implementation, and the subtle touches that the designers brings to a game is the most important thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:17:09 2015 No.2539615 >>2538365 Source? Ys would have to have been in development for a long time, and I really doubt Miyamoto or Tezuka would have known about the game that early.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 22:15:26 2015 No.2539907 >>2538541 haha fuck hydlide

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 03:23:40 2015 No.2540583

>>2536520
No, it definitely had black sheep status prior to OoT. I was aware of its reputation roughly when Link's Awakening came out.

That said, it wasn't considered "bad" the way it is by a lot of people who have never bothered to play it now. It was considered a good game that wasn't Zelda, and wasn't up to the standard of the rest of the series.

But, like. . . the rest of the series was LoZ, LttP, and LA. . . not being up to par with those games isn't saying much. . .

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 15 03:31:26 2015 No.2540590 >>2536498 You are reminding me of that kid from a few months ago trying to claim he experienced the Pokemon fad in the 90s because he was 2 when it happened.

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 04:56:36 2015 No.2540647

>>2536535
Yeah I think that may have been one of the bigger downfalls of Zelda 2. I mean yes it was a time when difficult games were common but Zelda 2 was pretty relentless, that's probably why it wasn't supee huge here. I mean, they didn't release the original Mario 2 here for a reason.

Difficulty aside I think the game did try to do some pretty next level shit. What with the system for collecting XP and leveling up abilities and incorporating the world map into an action game instead of the traditional JRPG turn based kind of thing. Which is totally rad if you ask me

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 15 05:21:54 2015 No.2540669 >>2536624 What's hilarious is half the time games were really hard just because of bad programming, system limitations did a real number on that one

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 07:49:56 2015 No.2540793

>>2540647
guy you responded here
Zelda II isn't actually hard, it's just a "guide bait", where things are actually incredibly easier once you know them. The famous Death mountain only took me 1-2 hours...once I know what I should do. Same for the house you have to go but don't know where it's supposed to be. There is tons of shit like that in Zelda II, so it's """hard""" the first time, but once you replay it, you could do it again in your first try.

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 09:19:54 2015 No.2540901
File: 25 KB, 320x256, pawn_01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2540793
That's kind of a dumb name, because it's the same way with any adventure game or RPG. Once you know where the important items and worst hazards are, it's very easy. When you don't have to solve the puzzles anymore, everything is easy.

But I'd argue that those "hard" parts is where the real fun lies, in exploring and figuring everything out yourself. Using a guide is basically the same as using cheat code on one of those hardcore arcade shoot'em up games. It's defeating the entire premise of the game.

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 15:28:46 2015 No.2541419

>>2537002
>test of skill

What good is a test you can't fail? Not everybody deserves a gold star or an achievement unlocked because they decided to play some random-ass game

Besides, Zelda II may be a moderately difficult game, but you're also talking about a game that a large number of twelve-year olds beat back in the day

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 15:30:52 2015 No.2541425

>>2540669
Not only bad programming, but outright bad design. It's not really a case of "system limitations" exclusively.

There were many, many, MANY games with severe design flaws, including fake difficulty, grind, and general bullshit that left you at the mercy of the RNG.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 15 16:23:33 2015 No.2541497 >>2540901 except thoses games gave you fair clues. Zelda II doesn't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 15 16:31:34 2015 No.2541516 >>2541425 Yeah definitely

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 16:32:16 2015 No.2541518

>>2541497

Zelda II does give you clues, at least for some things. For instance, there's an enemy inside a building in one of the towns. Speak to it enough times and it will tell you the location of a specific heart container.

My 10-year-old self figured out stuff like the mirror hidden under the table in Ruto without any clues. It seemed obvious enough that the mirror would be located somewhere in the same town.

I think the reason people complain about Zelda II's difficulty is because of areas like the Grand Palace, and the path leading up to it.

Anonymous Wed Jul 15 16:37:36 2015 No.2541529

>>2541518
Most of the hints it gave, and the hints in lots of other games were really cryptic though. That's a common grip of a lot of games of that era that I hear. Whether that was artificially done or just bad writing I'm not sure though.

The funny thing is, most of the people who love and cherish these games, say that half of the fun was just figuring out how to beat the damn thing because there were so many design flaws and things that just produce artificial difficulty. That's probably the real staple of this era as a whole, and a big reason that "hardcore gamers" exist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 15 16:40:08 2015 No.2541539 >>2541529 What cryptic hints? People told you the locations of things outright. You just have to talk to every villager. It's nothing like Castlevania II. Not even by a mile. I beat the game when I was only 10 years old.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 15 16:41:15 2015 No.2541542 >>2541497 What isn't fair?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 16 12:44:11 2015 No.2543347 >>2536498 Japan doesn't like Zelda like North Americans and Europeans do though

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 16 16:40:51 2015 No.2543812 >>2541539 >>2541542 Not him, but I had a lot of trouble finding the hidden town. I didn't have the manual though, and it tells you that you can cut down forest tiles with the hammer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 16 17:22:35 2015 No.2543882 >>2538541 Doing something first doesn't mean you did it right.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 17 18:00:49 2015 No.2546131 >>2539615 The core gameplay of Ys is an enhanced version of the one you get in Dragon Slayer (the famous bump system), and this one was released in 1984.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 17 18:03:21 2015 No.2546138 >>2546131 Well duh, pretty much everything comes down to Dragon Slayer as far as action-RPG goes

Anonymous Fri Jul 17 18:09:27 2015 No.2546149

>>2546138
Well no, Dragon Slayer came from Tower of Druaga and Ultima, games Yoshio Kiya had played. Same goes for Hydlide. There were plenty of Western-style adventures on Japanese PCs back then as well, so these games were going to be made in this style at some point.

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