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/vr/ - Retro Games

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2530317 No.2530317 [Reply] [Original]

Were 3D platformers a horrible mistake?

>> No.2530320

>projecting your parents thoughts onto retro video games

>> No.2530321

>>2530317
Here's a better question: Was I really the only kid in the 90's that thought the N64 was garbage?

>> No.2530323

>>2530317
You leaving /v/ was a terrible mistake.

>> No.2530327

It was a mistake in the case of Bubsy 3D. Mario 64, no.

>> No.2530328

I think so. It's just one man's opinion but I think they could have further developed 2D platformers instead of the overly focus on 3D and we would have better games today.

>> No.2530336

>>2530328
My thoughts exactly.

I would have liked to see an actual sequel to Legend of the Seven Stars with the same top down view, just better graphics/sound and more to explore/collect.

>> No.2530338

The ps4 and Xbox one sucks I rather have the WiiU

>> No.2530339

>>2530321
No. Calling it garbage is too harsh; more like a pile of utterly wasted potential.

No saving that awful controller, though.

>> No.2530341

>>2530339
Okay, maybe it wasn't garbage, but I thought the 3D sucked.

>> No.2530346

It had to start somewhere

>> No.2530356

>>2530328
i agree. look at castlevania 64 vs symphony of the night.

>> No.2530360

>>2530317
No. Turning 2D platformers into 3D was a mistake. They should have kept all the 2D stuff as side-scrolling games and made new IPs for the 3D platformers.

>> No.2530372

Super Mario 64 was the furthest away from a mistake you can get

The mistake is that we never got more games like Super Mario 64, and instead we got Mario Galaxy or the "New Super Mario Bros" games

>> No.2530605

>>2530372
Well, we got Super Mario Sunshine, which was pretty similar and arguably just as fun.

>> No.2530609

>>2530317
No introducing collect-a-thon crap into them was.

>> No.2530625

>>2530321
I wish that Nintendo instead worked with Sony and instead made a 64-bit Playstation which had all of Nintendo's good 64-bit games, and all of the great games on the PSone, including all the great 2D games.

>> No.2530627

Discouraging developers from making 2d platformers was the mistake. There's nothing wrong with 3d.

>> No.2530656

I love that game so fucking much,
Just the fact that stuff like this is possible is what makes it fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_YAcqg3iNo

>> No.2530706

No and neither was the N64.

Mario64 was a great game, as was Banjo Kazooie
and the N64 had several really great games.

>> No.2530734

>>2530317

Shitposting is a horrible mistake

>> No.2530740

>>2530317
Conker and Banjo were fantastic

>> No.2530742

3D platfomers are great. Collectathons are shit.

>> No.2530764

>>2530317
Yes. Doesn't mean they're all awful. The biggest issue being the industry kept pushing 3D ones over 2D ones for so long.

>> No.2530780

>>2530742
Collectathons really have shitty replay value. This goes for both 2D and 3D.

>> No.2530820

>>2530605
It would be ok if Sunshine, unlike 64, didn't feel like a fucking chore.

>> No.2530957

>>2530605
Nah, Sunshine was absolutely unfun, IMO. The levels were totally dull and frustrating.

Galaxy thankfully fixed all of its mistakes, and felt more like a 3D version of Mario's 2D platformers.

>> No.2530964

>>2530372
>>2530957
Galaxy is a pretty meh game. Especially when you factor in the terrible controller.

>> No.2530995

>>2530317
Yes. I still remember how dissapointed i was playing Mario 64 for the first time, i got a NES and a SNES both at release and was mindblown with wonder when i played SMB and SMW both for the first time, Mario 64 felt meh at best. I will never understand the praise it got.

>>2530321
No. I never liked the controller and i still dislike 95% of the library for it. Forever grateful i got a PS1 instead of the N64 at that time.

>> No.2530996

>>2530372

How was the first Mario Galaxy bad?

>> No.2531000

>>2530996
It was on Wii.

>> No.2531069
File: 44 KB, 500x434, 1436503010979.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2531069

>>2530996
The controller, for one, makes every game feel less like game to me.

And Galaxy is more like a 2.5D game, just like the New Mario Bros games, except Galaxy is actually alright to play.

>tfw we will never again get a 3rd person Parkour Mario game like Super Mario 64 was
Nintendo takes all the best things that make their games cool (unintended glitches or mechanics that let players "break" the game) and they purposely remove them, like all the crazy parkour shenanigans possible in Mario 64. (See also, Melee)

>> No.2531152

3D was a mistake

>> No.2531158

>>2530339
hey, I liked that controller (except the god-awful stick that breaks all the time). you're probably one of those that could never learn to hold it correctly.

>> No.2531238

>>2530625
It wouldn't have been the same though. They should have just stuck with 2D for the main event, had the option to make some OKAY looking 3D games if they or the 3rd party wanted to, and blown people away with the Gamecube by not fucking up online play.

>>2530627
Except for the 3D on the N64. It looked like crap in 1997 and it looks like crap now.

>>2530706
>Neither was the N64
The console itself wasn't a mistake, the crap they put out on it was.

>>2530820
>Super Mario 64
>Collect a bunch of stars by doing specific tasks

>Super Mario Sunshine
>Collect a bunch of stars by doing assorted tasks


10 to 1 they're both the same game if you take off the nostalgia glasses.

>>2530957
>The levels were totally dull
Um, WHAT?

>And frustrating
Git gud

>>2530995
I was always happy my friend had a PS1 instead of an N64. I, unfortunately, couldn't afford current gen consoles growing up (IE I had NES until right before N64 was released then I got SNES and had that until GC was released)

>> No.2531312

>>2531238
>Except for the 3D on the N64. It looked like crap in 1997 and it looks like crap now.
It was nearly as good as the arcade machines from the middle 90s. Pretty damn good accomplishment.

I don't know if it's kids or what. People seem to forget 3d hit the arcades before home consoles.

>> No.2531387

>>2530317
yes because it killed Sega

>> No.2531395

3D platformers where the best. Far more interesting and enjoyable than 2D platformers pretty much every time.

>> No.2531407

>>2530780
Crash bandicoot 3 had pretty damn great replay value imho. Anyway it's the only platformer I've played really, anyone think I'd like mario 64?

>> No.2531417

In the case of non retro 3D platformers, absolutely not. SM64 and DK were underwhelming because the technology was not there to provide immersion in 3D like it could in 2D. It got better later on but that discussion is for a different board.

>> No.2531461

>>2531417
So you're saying the age in which platformers died is when they were best?

>> No.2531563

>>2530328
And this is just another man's opinion, but I honestly think that 2D platformers had progressed long enough to do more with it and that believe that 3D was a welcome evolution. I'm not saying that one is inherently better than the other though; both have their strengths and flaws.

>>2531387
Sega killed themselves my friend.

>> No.2531581

>>2531312
>It was nearly as good as the arcade machines from the middle 90s.

Are you delusional? Look at all the 3D fighters in arcades at that time, N64 was nowhere near that (neither was PS1). Dreamcast was the first console that had on-par graphics with 90's 3D arcade games.

>> No.2531605

>>2530321
just the console itself is pretty fucking awful
the graphics were mud, it clung to cartridges, and the controller design was a travesty. sony made the same thing, better, with two analog sticks, only about a year later
that being said, it has dozens and dozens of absolutely stellar games and superior versions of multiplats, in spite of the console itself

>> No.2531615

Depends.

Good 3D platformers like Super Mario 64 and Jumping Flash were not a mistake.

Shit 3D platformers like Banjo-Kazooie or Crash Bandicoot were a mistake.

just kidding. No, 3D platformers weren't a mistake OP. And the N64 was an amazing console, especially back in 1996, probably most of you were still babies or unborn back then, but as someone who was 10 by then, seeing SM64 running for the first time was a jaw dropping experience

>> No.2531617

>>2531581
>Are you delusional? Look at all the 3D fighters in arcades at that time, N64 was nowhere near that (neither was PS1).
The consoles were pretty close. Closer than than 16bit was to arcades.

>> No.2531620

>>2531581
It blows my mind how Virtual On did a better job figuring out auto targeting better and earlier than Megaman Legends and Tomb Raider.

>> No.2531626

>>2531620
To me anything that isn't Zelda seems to play about the same far as targeting is concerned. Some are a bit odder like Resident Evil

>> No.2531663

>>2530317
IT's a genre that died faster than most and only resulted in a few genuinely good games. However I wouldn't say "mistake". More like all the assholes who jumped on the bandwagon and made generic shit are the ones who made the mistake.

>> No.2531664

>>2531605
>Dozens and Dozens of stellar games and better versions of multiplats

Not to get too "/v/" up in here, but all I can say to that post is: kek.

>> No.2531679

There seems to be a lot of hate for 5th generation. Don't understand it.

I also don't understand the hate for platformers. 3d platformers seem to be target a lot.

Just kids?

>> No.2531704

>>2531679
If you don't have anything interesting, you could just fuck instead of spamming "anyone who dislikes what I like must be a kid" in every topic.

>> No.2531709

>>2531704
But you making threads with blanket statements about things you dislike is fine?

>> No.2531736

>>2531709
I didn't even make this thread. Quit being so damn paranoid.

>> No.2531741

>>2531736
Somebody made this shit thread.

>> No.2531742

>>2531709
>questions are now statements

>> No.2531759

>>2531742
You can have a statement ask a question and vice versa, champ. Nice greentext btw.

>> No.2531769

>>2531663
>Shift hangs over to second letter
Are you me

>> No.2531838

This thread is fucking ridiculous.

>> No.2531843

>>2531238
It doesn't look like crap now, it look beautiful.

Your mom looks like crap now.

>> No.2531859

>>2531312
>people can't appreciate the aesthetics of early 3d

smdh

>> No.2531909

>>2531312
>It was nearly as good as
No it wasn't. Don't kid yourself.

>>2531605
>Dozens and dozens
That's a large exageration and you know it.

>>2531843
There's maybe 7 games total that looked decent on the N64. The rest of them were 3D for the sake of 3D which made them look like absolute ass.

Look, I'll even admit it, I had many a good time playin N64 with my brother and a friend of mine who had it, but the good games were few and far between in my opinion.

>> No.2531931

>>2531909
Ihatethingthepost.jpg

3d was an advancement. It wasn't done just for fucks. A significant amount of work went into designing 3d capable home consoles.

There's no objective basis to hate it. There's just your shitty opinion.

>> No.2531951

>>2530321
I was 5 in 96. I loved SM64 back then but today I just find it unplayable. 3D Platforming peaked on the PS2.

Turok still holds up today, though.

>> No.2531961

>>2531909
lol... this guy. :D

There are dozens of great, wonderful-looking games on games on the N64. At minimum two dozen anyway.

You know if you don't like the style just say it, that's just you. Most people feel differently. Only this shit-infested board have I seen people talk that way about N64 games, mostly picked up from what they've seen others saying on /vr/.

Take your "even admit it" and shove it up your ass.

>> No.2531963

>>2531951
>Platforming peaked on the PS2.
That is objectively wrong. And I don't mean that by the /v/ meme.

>> No.2531979

>>2531951
>3D Platforming peaked on the PS2

Nope. 3D platformers were dying by the time the PS2 rolled around. The Jak series is a perfect example of this. Jak and Daxter is the only true platformer while every other sequel is a shooting/driving simulator.

>> No.2531998

>>2531931
I really, really hate modern gamers.

Nintendo really did brainwash the fuck out of you guys, didn't they? Their viral marketing of Mario 64 made an entire generation of kids think a game with horrible controls and a wonky goddamn camera you have to fiddle with yourself was actually a good game.

It's objectively, no-argument bad. Plain and simple. You cannot with any seriousness tell me or anyone else that Mario 64 is anything but a piss-poor excuse for a game that evolved out of them trying to make a proper, side scrolling 3d rendered Mario game and Big N telling them NO IT HAS TO HAVE ACTUAL 3D, thus delaying the release of the fucking console for them to hack in some half-assed goddamn 3d shit to the game, and when it inevitably became a disaster Nintendo decided to pay every reviewer ever to give it 10/10 and viral market the shit out of it to make people think it's good.

I was an adult (20s) when I first played this shit, in a toy store at a kiosk. I was convinced Nintendo had fucked up royally (I loved previous Mario games) and the N64 was absolutely the last thing Nintendo would ever do.

Imagine my shock when people actually cared more about the paid reviews and the shiny graphics (for the time) and thought this pile of garbage was actually good.

The mid-90s is when gaming died. This is why /vr/ should be pre-1995 only.

Mario 64 is modern crap gaming for modern idiots and should be on /v/.

>> No.2532005

Super Mario 64 and Galaxy 2 are the best examples of 3D platformers done right.
Banjo and Spyro are cute and fun but their gameplay is not as tight because they focused more on the collectables aspect of the game and less on platforming.
Crash was too simple to be good. I could have made a better level design in one day.

>> No.2532010

>>2531998
controls are fine, camera ain't bad if you don't try to move it

>> No.2532013
File: 1.31 MB, 1201x1250, 1403231335834.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2532013

>>2531998
>objectively
>no-argument
Feel free to go back to /v/ when ever. By that I mean fuck off now.

>> No.2532032

>>2531998
>>2531998

Well, that's weird, because I still enjoy playing it now, so. I guess I must have been brainwashed pretty hard.

>> No.2532120

>>2531998
>Game is objectively bad.

You're both retarded and, if you're actually over 14 and posting this, mentally unstable. As if everyone who has loved and loved this game played throughout the ages on many different platforms were all "brainwashed".

>> No.2532216

>>2532005
>Banjo and Spyro are cute and fun but their gameplay is not as tight because they focused more on the collectables aspect of the game and less on platforming.
I think Spyro pulled it off much better because of how well-crafted the level design was. I loved finding new hidden passages within each level collecting the gems and shit. It may have a series of collecthathons sure, but I consider them collecthathons done right.

>Crash was too simple to be good.
I didn't mind. It proved how a couple 2D platformer concepts could translate well to 3D. I really liked most of the level designs as well.

>Super Mario 64 and Galaxy 2 are the best examples of 3D platformers done right.
64 as an "example of the genre done right", I dunno, though Mario did have one of the best movesets I've seen in such a game. Galaxy 2 I never cared for; then again I never cared about the Wii in general.

>> No.2532476

>>2531931
>There's no objective basis to hate it
Other than the PS1 being released BEFORE the N64 and doing 3D FAR better

>>2531961
>You know if you don't like the style just say it
I have. Several times.

>>2531951
>Turok stil holds up today though
Yes. Yes it does.

>> No.2532480

>>2532476
>Other than the PS1 being released BEFORE the N64 and doing 3D FAR better
Opinion, kiddo

>> No.2532486

>>2530964
Galaxy and 2 are super fun, 3D world too.

>> No.2532513

>>2530317
Does side-scrolling 3D count too? Duke nukem manhattan project was a pretty solid game imo.


>>2531998
I, uh, kinda agree with this.

>> No.2532531

>>2531998
it's incredibly fun just to move around in M64, by design as well, they got a basic gameplay system down that was fun to deal with in a vacuum then applied challenge within what had already been created.

Yeah the camera's not perfect but holy shit is horrible controls by no means an objective viewpoint, I at the least find them really fun just fuck around with even just hanging around outside the castle.

>> No.2532547
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2532547

>>2532476
>Other than the PS1 being released BEFORE the N64 and doing 3D FAR better
I can understand if you like the PS1 aesthetics subjectively more, but on a technical level this is objectively wrong.

>> No.2532548
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2532548

>all this console war faggotry.

Looks like we are /v/ with old games.

>> No.2532560

>>2532548
I'd like to think all of us are adults now who can afford to own more than one console and therefore have no need to argue about whose toy is better but apparently I'm wrong

>> No.2532574

It's weird because even though I was in my 20s when I got a Playstation, I never noticed the whole texture warping thing. I mean, I probably saw it, but just regarded it as normal.

>> No.2532580

>>2532574
It was normal...at the time. Newer generation of 3D accelerations eliminated it.

>> No.2532594

>>2531759
thanks brah

>> No.2532598

>>2531563
because they couldn't get their shit together with going with either 3D (32x) or 2D (Saturn)

>> No.2532603

>>2532548

We even have "Are games art guiz ?" threads.
Fuck /vr/, it has been a pleasure in the past.

>> No.2532608
File: 240 KB, 1246x928, 2454939-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2532608

>>2531312
>It was nearly as good as the arcade machines from the middle 90s

>> No.2532614

>>2532608
The Model 3 was the Porsche of arcade machines. There's not a huge difference between the arcade and console versions of Mace The Dark Age though.

>> No.2532618

>>2532608
It's unfair to compare anything to that game, that was super cutting edge at the time. I remember seeing that in the arcade for the first time, watching that character dance, the motion capture was incredible.

>> No.2532745

>>2531998
>pre 1995

but anon, dungeon keeper 1 was fantastic, so was diablo 1 and curse of monkey island (although i did prefer the first two it was still pretty good)

>> No.2532757

>>2532614
Speaking of model 3 i wish they were still working on the emulator. There hasn't been a new release in a long time.

>> No.2532769

>>2530321
N64 was fucking phenomenal if you were a fan of racing, wrestling, or FPS, or just liked Nintendo stuff in general. If you wanted other genres you were pretty much fucked.

>> No.2532781

>>2532769
>racing

I see people say this a lot but I'm not sure I understand why, the N64 mainly seems to have kart racers and a few futuristic ones. Does it have an equivalent to SEGA Rally or Gran Turismo? I'm honestly curious.

>> No.2532786

3D games in general were a horrible mistake. Everything was rushed into 3D with no regard for quality or how to properly make mechanics work.

All 3D did was turn me off of consoles and convince me that 2D series couldn't work in 3D.

>> No.2532789
File: 184 KB, 256x364, Maximo_-_Ghosts_to_Glory_Coverart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2532789

Collectathons were a mistake.

This is a real 3d platformer. One of the very few ones ever made.

>> No.2532790
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2532790

>>2532781
>Does it have an equivalent to SEGA Rally or Gran Turismo?
This is more like Gran Turismo than Sega Rally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRPX02A9yY

>> No.2532793

>>2532789
Not retro and pretty shit.

>> No.2532801

>>2532790
Damn those graphics are really, really impressive.

>> No.2532821

>>2532801
It's what the N64 can do when the fill rate isn't being choked by trying to do a z-buffer.

>> No.2532883

>>2530372
What? Take off the nostalgia glasess there bro sunshine and both galaxy games are far better.

>> No.2532905

>>2532789
>Collectathons were a mistake.
Oh so fucking this.

It really depends though. Most of the time yes I think the 3D platformers are not that good. 2D keeps things simple so the action can be faster and the mechanics rely more on speed and timing.

3D kills the speed and timing because you have to fuck with the camera, or get fucked by the camera if its a fixed one. 3D does work well for exploration and puzzles, which is why it works well in maze games, or puzzlely games like Soul Reaver, etc.

Collectathons were done because they couldn't think of another way to make people explore at the time, largely since that set of devs were oblivious to the previous 3D games that exist before 5th gen. It was filler that turns to mud once the idea of 3D begins to wear off.

Mario 64 wasn't bad really but its best part was interacting with a 3D world to explore. The platforming part was a bit slow and the combat was a lot less satisfying then just good old stomping. It was getting to see the worlds that really held it up. Same for Zelda the 3D helped exploration (well if the world had been less cut off), but combat was a bit meh, not being a platformer though this one held on longer. Sonic being all speed best crashed and burst into flames in 3D.

>> No.2532919

>>2532216
I think one of the issues is that both crash and spyro where incredibly charming games as far as characters, music, animations, levels and whatnot went.

>> No.2532931

>>2532905
>Sonic being all speed best crashed and burst into flames in 3D.
SRB2 is pretty badass though.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDld4BbFw7A

>> No.2532947

>>2532821
Imagine if Sega had picked this up instead of Nintendo.

>> No.2532964

>>2532931
Never played it may check it out. 3D platforming is doable I just think it takes a much different kind of approach.

The traditional retro stuff doesn't usually lend well to it because it focuses all on the jumping idea usually. Later things that add in swinging, grappling, gliding, climbing, parkour and I think that helped a lot. Only retro thing I can think of is Soul Reaver for some reason, but in the nonretro Spiderman 2, Hulk, Portal, Prototype all figued out that while not exactly platforming they captured that free flowing movement aspect by adding more mechanics.

>> No.2533023

>>2530995
>I still remember how dissapointed i was playing Mario 64 for the first time
It took me years to get into it. The 3 Bowser levels are the only ones I had fun with from the beginning. The "look for star, rinse and repeat" formula is just crap.

>> No.2533027

>>2531407
>Crash bandicoot 3
This game has crapstatic replay value since it derails itself with so much non platformer gimmick levels.

>> No.2533092

>>2532919
>both crash and spyro where incredibly charming games as far as characters, music, animations, levels and whatnot went.

Crash and Spyro are literally both Poochie the dog. Look had radikewl and karazy I am kidz!

They were fun games, but liking them as a kid for their style was just a mark of bad taste.

>> No.2533107

>>2533027
Coco levels were highlights of Crash 3. Only the flying stages were ass.

>> No.2533143

>>2533092
>Crash and Spyro are literally both Poochie the dog
I wasn't refering to the player characters, but the game worlds and all the enemies populating them.

>> No.2533169

>>2533092
>Crash and Spyro are literally both Poochie the dog
Hello /v/, please stop bringing your dank over here, okay?

>> No.2533197

>>2533107
>flying stages
>slow underwater levels
>hard to maneuver jetski levels
>shit motorcycle levels
It's tedioius to play through. 1 and 2 are basically perfect. They also have better music and have a nice unified tribal theme to all the levels.

>> No.2533208

>>2533197
Spoken like a true scholar.

>> No.2533213

Is Spyro a collect-a-thon?
yes or no

>> No.2533225

>>2533213
If Spyro isn't, nothing is.

PS Spyro gotta be one of the few enjoyable collecathon.

>> No.2533229

>>2533092
>Look had radikewl and karazy I am kidz!
They may have had traces of it in terms of design and (to a smaller extent) personality, but those elements still remain very minimal at best.
I never got that overall vibe from both characters at all honesty.

>> No.2533230

>>2531998
You're delusional.

>> No.2533234

>>2531998
Nintendo slowly went insane after a the N64.

>> No.2533245

>>2533225
I don't think it is to the degree of, say, Banjo Kazooie.

>> No.2533247

>>2533245
It's hard to match BK music.

>> No.2533248

>>2533247
dat grant kirkhope amirite

>> No.2533251

>>2533247
In terms of catchiness, Copeland can't really compete
But in terms of creating complicated, intricate pieces of music that could easily be used for something besides video games, his work was phenomenal

Take this song, for example, which was also used for the end credits of "The Amanda Show"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bd940BkxGY

BK music would be more suited for a small children's show. Catchy, but simple.

>> No.2533256

>>2533251
Honest I kinda fail to see the point to have tracks matching other stuff than video game when those are and should be designed to offer the best gaming experience. You don't play your games just to listen to stuff.

>> No.2533265

>>2533256
I do, sometimes.

>> No.2533271

>>2533265
are you ulililia

>> No.2533315

>>2533271
>only ulililia turns on a game just to listen to the music
Come on, now. Who hasn't been guilty of at least once turning on a game and leaving it on a certain stage just to hear the tune
Sonic sound test, anyone?

>> No.2533375

>>2533315
I was jesting.
>Who hasn't been guilty of at least once turning on a game and leaving it on a certain stage just to hear the tune
Never did, but I have some video game sountrack mp3's I listen to occasionally.. Mainly unatco theme, some doom covers, and timesplitters stuff.

>> No.2533421
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2533421

2D isometric platformers are like a billion times worse though due to having to quickly judge distance between jumps

>> No.2533478
File: 1009 KB, 944x630, shadowmancomparison_zps3280c18b.png-original.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2533478

>>2532480
>>2532547


No, fact actually.

>>2532769
I see someone only had Nintendo growing up.

>> No.2533479

>>2533023
The game was going to be stage based (just go to the end of the stage while collecting just red coins maybe, like yoshi island but 3-d), but i think the cartridge couldn't handle it.

I think it would have been a so much better game with that concept instead instead of the star collecting too.

Actually, i think i read something about the mario 64 sequel having multiplayer, maybe it was going to be something similar to 3-d world, just going through the stages collecting something but not having to replay them 6 freaking times.

>> No.2533480

>>2532790

This game handling is even arcadey than the first Gran Turismo, it's only considered "sim" because most of racers of that time were "move steering lightly = auto drift". Pretty solid title though, it's a shame its emulation isn't easy as other games.

>> No.2533510

>>2531998
Mario 64 plays better than most of the 3-d platformers in that generation, and it was released early and that's why people liked it.

I never had a nintendo 64 and my first experience with the game was with an emulator and yeah, the camera is shit, and other games like Conker and Banjo tooie look miles better, but the feeling of freedom and the tight controls made the game good for its time.

I think is unfair to compare mario 64 to a game like SMB 3, because that one had already a base (smb), while super mario 64 is a completely different game and was nintendo first attempt at doing a 3-d platformer, and they succeed by making one that even today people can play just fine.

It has the same problems that other series that went 3-d have, like not feeling as lively or lacking the amount of levels of the 2-d games, but the gameplay was good enough and that's why nintendo stuck with it for the other 3-d games.

tl;dr the camera is shit but it has nice controls compared to 90% of the 3-d platformers of that gen

>> No.2533517

>>2533478
The bottom images look better than the top images.
I'll agree that PlayStation games near the end of the console's life tend to look better than N64 games, but you picked an awful example to prove your point.

>> No.2533527

>>2533478
Bottom looks better, at least has some shadows.

You should have posted something like a square RPG graphics vs quest 64 or megaman legends vs megaman 64

>> No.2533536
File: 385 KB, 1282x591, PSX_VS_N64___megaman_legends___by_Elias1986[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2533536

>>2533527
Aside from the obscenely low-res floor textures, they seem pretty on par.

>> No.2533546

I wish they had made an SM64 II.

>> No.2533550

>>2531069
All the non melee Smash Bros games are pathetic, including the N64 one that's barely playable and just proof of concept for Melee.

>> No.2533556

>facepalm.jpg
it's embarassing to see this many people get trolled so hard

>> No.2533557

>>2533536
>emulated
okay

>> No.2533569

>>2533556
huh I unironically agree with OP

>> No.2533638

>>2533569
it's one thing to say that, that's fine
it's a complete other thing to say
"nintendo sucks guys, the 64 was shit and so was anything after it. you're all brainwashed idiots for thinking it was good and it was "objectively" bad. Not a single good game exists after 1995."

>> No.2533642

>>2530317
No, they were an unplanned surprise that we love very much and don't regret in any way. Now go play with your brother.

>> No.2533643

>>2530317
No.
>>2530321
You're garbage.

>> No.2533673

>>2533478
You're probably the only person ever to use Shadowman in order to bat for PS1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woJ1GUmL0Xw

Here's a non-emulated look at how the versions compare in video form. There are a number of lame duck PS1 to N64 ports like Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Shadowman on the other hand looks great for N64, particularly with Expansion Pak.

>> No.2533787

>>2532905

yeah that all sounds great in theory, bolstered by the decline of pure collectathons, but lots of it doesn't stack up.

Collectathons offer the advantage of actually have to explore and get to know each world thoroughly, to keep your eye out everywhere for items you know are there. I hate looking around for items or secrets that may or may not be there, I want to know if there's something I'm supposed to find. There's a great sense of completion to collectathons that way.

What you said about 2D physics not working is right, which is why they were made into collectathons. However there was no "evolution" or anything like that like you're suggesting, it was just found most people don't like it.

I dislike having my hand held going from one area to the next without getting to know the area at all that a lot of modern games have, that's linearity. I get that feeling in a lot of modern games of just being ushered through.

>> No.2533806

>>2533536
>Aside from the obscenely low-res floor textures, they seem pretty on par.
They have the same textures, it's just the n64 filters them

>> No.2533815

Sure got some great mods. Love that this thread is still up.
>>2533806
>the n64 filters them

>> No.2533823

>>2533815
>>the n64 filters them
what's wrong?

>> No.2533829

>>2533823
Emulationtards like you continuing that troll.

>> No.2533857

>>2533806
I'm pretty certain in this instance it really is just lower-res. Filtering usually has a positive, not negative effect.

But that picture is just shitty emulation anyway, so it doesn't really reflect a true comparison.

>> No.2533859

Whatever the case the N64 does filter a lot better than the PS which is why playstation 3D looks shitty and unrealistic, pixellated everywhere while N64 3D is pleasing to the eye and holds up really well.

>> No.2533862

>>2533859
>holds up really well.
This phrase really needs to be instant ban. Along with "aged well/poorly".

>> No.2533867

>>2533859
Actually the PS1 doesn't really do any kind of filtering at all. It's just nearest-neighbor. It can look good for some things, you don't want to put a filter on a 2D pixel-art game.

The problem with N64 is that many developers couldn't master its texturing hardware (due to laziness or inexperience or Nintendo leaving them dry) and instead just used filtering as a (poor) substitute for better texture quality. Filtering is supposed to make good textures look even better, but it can't make bad textures look good.

>> No.2533903

>>2533862
>having autism

>> No.2533919

>>2533859
Nothing N64-related held up well.

>> No.2533928

>>2533517
>>2533527
I really honestly don't care. It's it's been 20 years since these consoles dropped. I just used the first example I could find.

>>2533536
I'll actually agree that the N64 looks better

Anyway, my point wasn't that the N64 didn't have a few games that looked good, my point was a vast majority of them looked muddy.

>> No.2533939

>>2533919
Graphically some late Rare stuff still holds up well.

>> No.2533943

>wut is difference btween opinon & fact!!?
Anyone who uses the phrase "objectively good" or "objectively bad" is a fucking moron

>> No.2533978

>>2533787
But the problem with that is that most of the early collectathons did a terrible job at being collectathons.

Even OoT was based on stopping the adventure every few feet to pan the camera around for most of them. Most of them were a whole let less about exploring and a whole lot more about camera angles.

A nicely made world is its own reason to explore, for example the first Zelda was huge for its time and very open to doing just that. Link to the Past sprinkled in goodies that would help you along the way and items that would allow further access to old areas which gave a bit more incentive as they furthered the game at its core. All them are good games just using them as an example as they are in the same series.

By contrast the N64 era collectathon idea, including the PS1 games many did it too, just make you a glorified trashman. Its hey go pick up this shit because its shiny and your nerdy ass likes to collect things and feel that 100% mark reached. Where as in the original Zelda it was always a since of mystery, maybe it will be just rupees, maybe a heart piece, maybe a hidden shop, maybe something else. Now that gave you a real reason to explore.

That is why those collectathons are just forcing you to explore to distract from things like OoT being a good deal more linear than its previous installments. Modern games granted are railroad linear which is on a whole different level of bullshit.

Sorry to pick on OoT so much its a good game and one of the least offenders of this its just easier to draw comparisons since the 2D games were also about exploration. And sorry I do know I shit on the N64 a lot in particular, which from its hardware to its library it deserves, but Smash Bros sleepovers alone still made it so worth it.

>> No.2533991

>>2533978
>problem with that is that most of the early collectathons did a terrible job at being collectathons.
Which ones do you think pulled the concept off well then?

>> No.2533992

>>2533978

I agree with you, to a degree. I'm not sure Zelda is a collectathon in the same way DK64 or the Banjo games were though. They were true collectathons. Kazooie is a great game as far as I'm concerned. It's the best of its kind. Tooie felt really shallow and forced in comparison, and DK64 barely had any gameplay at all to speak of. That game literally was "Picking Shit Up: The Game". Going back to OPs original point, in this sense I think 3D platformers did plateau. in that they simply ran out of ideas very quickly. They weren't a mistake, it's just they're not as fun as their 2D counterparts in my opinion.

>> No.2534081

>>2533992
Oh yea I wouldn't say Zelda is one. Just used it as an example because it has a collectathon in it and I think the previous 2D games pulled off exploration better without that.

I think your mode of travel and the world you travel in is a million more times important in a 3D game than simply shiny objects to pick up. Collecting coins worked in Super Mario as it didn't break the flow of running to the end. In a 3D game it breaks that flow and I don't think its a needed incentive to want to explore.

>>2533991
Well there is where my bias may come out, because I honestly can't think of any at the moment. Collecting things just seems like it should be part of something else; like an alchemy side game, or finding special weapons or power ups, etc.

I feel like the genre is tied to exploration, but I don't think being forced to explore every spec on a map very fun for its own sake. But rather wanting to run around exploring because it enhances the gameplay of the rest of the game.

This is probably a terrible example but in say Doom as a kid I ran around pressing every wall looking for secrets because getting that weapon or health pack early could mean a huge advantage and it fit really well into the maze like feel of the game. Where as in OoT, sorry to pick on it again it was one my favorites and most remembered N64 games, the golden skulls just annoyed me. I got a wide open space, I wanted to run around, stab baddies, and find new areas to explore.

Fucking with the camera or slingshot to find to find an enemy in an odd spot that just sits there wasn't really that fun. Hell when I played WoW I explored all over just to see, because you'ld find stuff that was unique so often in the middle of nowhere and it was its own reward to do so.

If one exists out there that I missed I'll play with an open mind, I just think its a fine line to walk in how its presented.

>> No.2534263

>>2534081
>the golden skulls just annoyed me.
Funny, I liked collecting them. Yeah it's a bit tedious at times, but it's rather fun when you're left finding or exploring things with you own intuition rather than some map doing it all for you, which goes back to your point regarding why the exploration aspect of Z1 was rather neat for its time.

>> No.2534269

>>2530321

no I am with you on that one m8

>> No.2534308

>>2530323
why the fuck does everyone here constantly feel the need to say that someone belongs in /v/?

it is the most obviously insecure and cringey shit in the world

>> No.2534315

>>2534308
... go back to >>>/v/

>> No.2534356

>>2531152
lol

>> No.2534403

>>2533092
tipsfedora.png

>> No.2534853

>>2533550
>N64 one
>barely playable

Please. Not denying that Melee is a better game, but come on.