WRPG

[Anonymous No.2516756]

So I seen a lot of threads about Western RPGs. Care to explain to me a little bit more about then, and what's the differences? Recommendations?

[Anonymous No.2516771]

>>2516756

[Anonymous No.2516791]

>>2516756
WRPGs tend to focus more on being non-linear and open world with magnitudes more customization than JRPGs. That's the main difference. They put more emphasis on gameplay than plot, and often have greater amounts of party customization right off the bat, if you have a party at all.

[Anonymous No.2516819]

>>2516791
No, there are other major differences. The stories of WRPGs tend to be smaller in scope compared to JRPGs. Nearly every JRPG is about god-like villains and global calamities, whereas WRPGs are often about local villains threatening kingdoms. WRPGs usually don't have whiny, insufferable characters. In JRPGs you have characters that complain about stupid things, like the weather being too hot. The boss monsters in WRPGs often have bilateral symmetry and are simple in design. In JRPGs, it's very often some freak with more limbs, heads, and body parts that you can count. The worlds in WRPGs are more realistic. In JRPGs, you can have floating islands, futuristic cities in medieval worlds, robots and monsters of every form roaming the land for no reason, Norse gods, dinosaurs, talking animals, and aliens all in one game.

[Anonymous No.2516827]

They're made in North America so they're originally in English. That's basically all they have in common that separates them from Japanese RPGs that are made in Japan and originally use Japanese as a language.

If you're new you could start with the middle Might and Magic games (3, 4+5, 6). They're pretty beginner friendly.

[Anonymous No.2516842]

>>2516756
Ultima 1 is still more complex and modern than most jrpg.

[Anonymous No.2516845]

I don't like those kind of generalizations.
Something more objetive it's saying the original platforms for WRPG used to be PC and older computers while JRPG used to be consoles.
And for that reason controls and mechanics can differ according to that.

[Anonymous No.2516847]

>>2516845
You'll find a lot RPGs for Japanese computers like the PC-88 and PC-98.
Foreigners didn't develop as much for consoles but they still got ports.

[Anonymous No.2516856]

>>2516847
>You'll find a lot RPGs for Japanese computers like the PC-88 and PC-98.

That's true, but japanese computers remain pretty obscure here in the west.
There's also the japanese ports of western rpg's, really common years ago.

[Anonymous No.2516910]

jRPGs are all basically Wizardry 1 clones.

[Anonymous No.2516970]

>>2516910
WRPGs are Wizardry 1 clones. Even Ultima from 3 onward.

[Anonymous No.2517015]

>>2516756
WRPGs are for people who have an almost PTSD-like negative reaction to Japan and everything from it.

[Anonymous No.2517023]

>>2517015
Why someone can't love both WRPG and JRPG?

[Anonymous No.2517041]

>>2517023
Nice try, idort.

[Anonymous No.2517050]

The very first Final Fantasy game on NES is kind of a mix of both styles. Dunno if there's any more like that, but I really like it.

[Anonymous No.2517056]

>>2517041
What kind of answer is that?

[Anonymous No.2517126]

>>2516819
literally everyone in Baldur's Gate and it's sequels does almost nothing but bitch all the fucking time until you turn their voices off

[Anonymous No.2517129]

>>2516819
>The stories of WRPGs tend to be smaller in scope compared to JRPGs

Like Wizardry, M&M, and Ultima?

[Anonymous No.2517182]

The differences in gameplay originate in an effort to streamline d&d combat to make it work on a NES controller for games such as DQ1 and FF1. The later systems keep this style of game due to people being comfortable with it and the formula successful. Much like a blobber in late 90s doesn't have any technical reason to be a tile-based game, it simply became a style and people still prefer it over full 3D movement.

The thematic differences between a western and a japanese RPG really only start to matter in the PS1 era when FF7 sorta defines what people like in this genre. Play a game like Dragon Quest 3 - there's not much distinctly japanese here that a RPGCodex elitist would start foaming about, you can create any class you want right from the start and choose any party configuration, the world is medieval and very open.
Obviously both styles of RPG share the same origins in D&D and computer efforts to replicate it in Ultima and Wizardry, so there's nothing keeping a jRPG from "Western themes". I dislike modern jrpg melodrama and cutscene abuse but I can always play games that stay away from it.

[Anonymous No.2517186]

>>2516756
Here's the real difference, without all the fat.

jRPG = NO CHOICES
wRPG = ILLUSION OF CHOICE

Also, jRPGs have better gameplay.

[Anonymous No.2517193]

>>2516856
Why's there a picture of a modern city?

[Anonymous No.2517198]

>>2517186
That choice based mechanics are more a thing of some Black Isle, Troika or some late Bioware or CD Projekt games, it's not like the average Dungeon Master-like wrpg had so much choices, i think.

>>2517193
I don't know, because it looks cool?

[Anonymous No.2517204]

>>2516756
OP THIS IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION YOU NEED:

WRPGs are LITERAL role playing games. JRPGs are adventure games with (mostly early) WRPG mechanics. It's really as simple as that.

[Anonymous No.2517206]

I think it's pretty hilarious how some people try to redefine RPGs as Fallout-like games. According to a lot of definitions of the genre I see, Wizardry doesn't count as it lacks roleplay choices, as do most early rpgs.

[Anonymous No.2517208]

>>2517204
No, this a literal role playing game.

[Anonymous No.2517227]

>>2516819
this is like an amazing bait, cg.

>>2516756
they are pretty fuzzy terms and WRPG is so ill-defined it means basicly just "non-JRPG"
also what >>2517182 said...

[Anonymous No.2517245]

>>2516819
So what you're saying is that JRPGs are better. Right.

[Anonymous No.2517293]

>>2516910
>jRPGs are all basically Wizardry 1 clones.
which eceleb said this?

>>2517186
>Also, jRPGs have better gameplay.
>jRPGs
>gameplay
ORLY

>>2517206
>I think it's pretty hilarious how some people try to redefine RPGs as Fallout-like games
I agree.

Pretty much this whole thread is some degree of wrong. There are just lots and lots of small differences, even if you narrow the field by e.g. comparing Japanese vs Western dungeon crawlers.

[Anonymous No.2517304]

>>2517293
This is one of the most useless posts I've seen on /vr/. Absolutely terrible.
>inb4 I know you are but what am I tier reply

[Anonymous No.2517310]

>>2517304
>>inb4 I know you are but what am I tier reply
Kinda setting that up with your own utterly useless post, yes.

[Anonymous No.2517318]

Take. Look at this OP
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l_rvM6hubs8

[Anonymous No.2517341]

>>2517293
Dungeon crawlers are still a huge field. They have single character vs party, different perspectives, real time vs turn base in various form, different options for NPC interaction etc.
Ultimately you'll find a lot of differences between two Japanese games as well as between two non-Japanese games. Particularly if you look beyond the ultra mainstream titles.

[Anonymous No.2517348]

>>2517208

I've always wanted to play D&D but I've never met anyone I wanted to play D&D with.

[Anonymous No.2517353]

>>2517348
Same happened to me, so i became a DM.
But i turned to be a shitty DM.

[Anonymous No.2518297]

>>2517186

That's one, shitty, barely wRPG.

[Anonymous No.2518365]

>>2517341
>Ultimately you'll find a lot of differences between two Japanese games as well as between two non-Japanese games.

Prepubescent and spiky-haired characters with spindly arms are mainly a Japanese thing.

[Anonymous No.2519132]

>>2518365
Are mainly a SquareEnix thing.

[Anonymous No.2519159]

>>2518365
Is this spiky enough?

[Anonymous No.2519201]

>>2516756
This thread is full of raging fanbois so let a true neutral idort explain.

JRPGs derived from WRPGs, with time they become more story oriented than WRPGs but early JRPGs were basically the same as WRPGs, so similar you even got certain versions of WRPGs as JRPGs, like the Ultima Gaiden series.

WRPGs from the late 80's to 90's tend to be oriented on exploring and having multiple plot lines rather than a central quest and plotline like most JRPGs, see Elder Scrolls and Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy for that.

WRPGs also tend to have a non definite player character that you can USUALLY customize to a CERTAIN DEGREE, but again, even a lot of JRPGs have that, so the distinction here is very liminal. You can have some nice customization depth in Elder Scrolls or HOMM, but there's games like the gameboy SaGa or Romancing SaGa that also have a surprising amount of customization and depth to them, some of it is actually a tad deeper than the average WRPG, but this is my opinion on the matters.

WRPGs also tend to have a more open world/Sandbox design compared to most JRPGs where most of the times the gameplay is rather linear, but even here there are notable exceptions, Wizardry, the most egregious WRPG of all time is super linear most of the times while JRPGs like Metal Max are surprisingly non linear and really good early sandboxes.

The whole shtick about JRPG villains being more over the top than WRPG is fallacious because people think JRPGs=Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy.
LOTS of JRPGs have tame villains, take Dhaos from ToP, any villain from the Ogre series, Guildenstern from Vagrant Story or Mondo from SaGa Frontier, there are even cases where you find out God is actually a minor chump in the grand design of things.
In WRPG, hilariously, things can turn out rather over the top in the end, Diablo has you fight against the king of Hell, Wizardry progresses in semi-Demonbane wanks by Wizardry 6 and so on...
tl;dr: They're mostly the same thing.

[Anonymous No.2519215]

>>2519201
You know your stuff, good post.

[Anonymous No.2519227]

>>2517208
No, that's a dog who just happens to be roleplaying. (He plays a cat who is also a paladin.)

[Anonymous No.2519229]

>>2516819
Why did you open your comment by saying "No"? Nothing he said was incorrect, nor was he arguing with anyone, as it was the first reply in the thread?

[Anonymous No.2519232]

>>2517129
>tend to be
You realize that doesn't mean "100% of the time this is the case", right?

[Anonymous No.2519249]

KILL WHITEY!!

[Anonymous No.2519309]

>>2519201
>Wizardry, the most egregious WRPG of all time is super linear most of the times
Uh, Wizardry 7 is anything but linear and that's the one most people talk about

[Anonymous No.2519394]

>>2519201
>WRPGs from the late 80's to 90's tend to be oriented on exploring and having multiple plot lines rather than a central quest and plotline
A lot of them don't have much of a plot at all. You walk around and at best pick up quests until you're fit enough to take up the end boss.

[Anonymous No.2519405]

>>2519309
I've talked more about 1 and 6 on /vr/ than I about 7. Possibly 4 as well.
7 is so dull that it doesn't surprise me.

[Anonymous No.2519669]

>>2519309
Most of the Wizardry series is pretty popular

[Anonymous No.2519783]

Other WRPG reporting in.

[Anonymous No.2519797]

>>2519783
And this guy too.

[Anonymous No.2520136]

>>2517129
>ultima
not every Ultima game was doom and gloom
a lot of them were just more minor problems or diplomatic issues

and only the first 3 has the more crazy shit like space ships

[Anonymous No.2520142]

>>2519201
also for a long time WRPGs were very niche while JRPGs were massive because of consoles and the Japanese having a monopoly on them.

it wasn't until the success of Xbox and Elder Scrolls really that WRPGs really became huge.

[Anonymous No.2520153]

>>2519201
you're right that the differences are not absolute but in general those few you mentioned are outliers.

the biggest difference imo is development style
Japanese development is very authoritarian and largely driven by the vision of a single person while everyone else basically works on their idea and requires their approval, meaning a skilled dev can make an amazing game, but if he has a bad season or leaves the company the series can collapse.

Western development is more democratic, a wider array of devs have more input in what goes into the game, as well as fan suggestions meaning WRPGs can be really thematically diverse and have a lot of side content put in by various devs as their own little pet projects, it can make some western games feel confused and thematically weak, but other times I think it gives them the edge in shear content and quality of side quests and other axillary content.

JRPGs can ve very non-linear, but few of them have so much outside of the main questline to do.

[Anonymous No.2520191]

>>2520136
The Gargoyles may appear a bit tame but they launched a continent wide assault and wouldn't mind killing all humans in order to regain the codex and land.
Only in 4 the fate of the world isn't at stake. Maybe 8 if you consider that the one destroying everything is the Avatar.

[Anonymous No.2520230]

>>2520191
yea but you solve things in the end fairly peacefully and get them to co-operate diplomatically.

its more like a war between two kingdoms than some all out end of the universe thing like in 7

and in Ultima 5 it was similar, more you just fighting this cabal of oppressive lords

[Anonymous No.2520242]

>>2520230
5 is often subtle but you're still on a quest to overthrow the ruler of the world and restore the old order.

[Anonymous No.2520245]

>>2520242
yea but that's fairly "realistic" and mundane compared to the more universal and godlike consequences of other games, even in the ultima series.

[Anonymous No.2520258]

>>2520245
really the only Ultima games with such a huge scale bringing universal consequences in are Ultima 7 and the following games, the others are fairly straightforward or local, except for maybe the early games where you have the skull that can wipe out all life or the evil super computer demon

[Anonymous No.2520269]

>>2520258
Underworld 1 would end in destruction of the world even though you're confined to a single dungeon.
Martian Dreams covers a whole planet.
For Savage Empire the consequences are a bit hard to tell what the Myrmidex would do if not stopped.

[Anonymous No.2520272]

>>2520269
>Martian Dreams covers a whole planet.
yes but you're mostly there to save a shipwrecked crew and only decide to help the martians as a sort of side deal.
you're not really saving the planet so much as helping to restore their ruined civilization.

[Anonymous No.2520353]

>>2520272
Rasputin wanted to take over all humans.

[Anonymous No.2520356]

>>2520353
yea but he's just a crazy guy in general

it doesn't really compare to the far more over the top and esoteric issues in JRPGs

[Anonymous No.2520368]

There are no Western RPGs, there are only CRPGs and JRPGs. If a Japanese studio makes a clone of Baldur's Gate with cute anime girls, it's a CRPG. If a Western studio makes a clone of Final Fantasy with Western-style characters, it's a JRPG. JRPG does not really mean "Japanese Role-Playing Game." CRPGs and JRPGs have fundamentally different design philosophies and goals. If they were the same but simply from different countries, there wouldn't even be any need for the term JRPG. There is no other genre that I can think of where country of origin is taken into account.

If Deus Ex had been developed in Japan, would anyone call it a JRPG? Very few would. But it's still a CRPG.

[Anonymous No.2520376]

>>2520368
also to note that JRPGs are primarily on consoles, or at least that is where the most prominent releases have been. while Western RPGs were more often on PC until like 10 years ago

[Anonymous No.2520379]

>>2520368
I'm totally fine with this distinction, although I don't think most people playing console RPGs would be (most Final Fantasy players, I'd imagine).

[Anonymous No.2520440]

>>2516856
Not sure what you're getting at here. J-PC RPGs were first influenced by Wizardy and Ultima, which provided the lion's share of inspiration for developers to start making games like those; Dragon Quest and its progeny also influenced the market, since new PC owners, young and old, were maybe accustomed to how DQ plays and not Square's Genesis or something. Usually you had games for both extremes (Xtalsoft's Crimson series for DQ fans vs. Artec's Digan no Maseki with a level of detail predating Shenmue) and hybrids in-between from studios like Falcom, System Sacom, and T&E Soft.

[Anonymous No.2520469]

>>2519201
>WRPGs also tend to have a non definite player character that you can USUALLY customize to a CERTAIN DEGREE, but again, even a lot of JRPGs have that, so the distinction here is very liminal.

Only in a few JRPGs. Most of them restrict you to specific classes, gear, spells, skills, and stat growth. I find that the level of customization correlates with how much story and cinematic experiences the game has.

>WRPGs also tend to have a more open world/Sandbox design compared to most JRPGs where most of the times the gameplay is rather linear, but even here there are notable exceptions, Wizardry, the most egregious WRPG of all time is super linear most of the times while JRPGs like Metal Max are surprisingly non linear and really good early sandboxes.

You're comparing a dungeon crawler with a overhead view game. Regardless, Wizardry isn't linear at all. At the third floor of the first game, you can use the elevator to go to any level except for the last one. Teleport traps take you to random spots on the same floor, sometimes in the areas you haven't explored yet. You can use the Malor spell to explore, move around, and avoid tough monsters and traps.

>LOTS of JRPGs have tame villains, take Dhaos from ToP

Did you finish the game? Dhaos, a being that can travel across time as easily as taking joyride in a car, transforms into towering monster after you beat his human form in the floating castle. You fight his second form in outer space with a time-traveling sword and every deity in the world assisting you.

[Anonymous No.2520489]

>>2520469
cont'd

>In WRPG, hilariously, things can turn out rather over the top in the end, Diablo has you fight against the king of Hell, Wizardry progresses in semi-Demonbane wanks by Wizardry 6 and so on...

In JRPGs, over-the-top elements are featured. In WRPGs, they're just part of the story and more subtle. You see most of them in the cinematic scenes. The battles are canon. But for JRPGs, fans apply this stupid double standard where battle sequences aren't part of the reality of the game or whatever in order to excuse the use of DBZ-tier moves like summons calling forth any god of any pantheon, black holes, super novae, etc.

[Anonymous No.2520604]

>>2520136
from which Ultima version is that pic? I know its the cover of U4 but I dont remember that as ingame graphic.

[Anonymous No.2520637]

>>2520604
its from the Sega version of it, the art in them was pretty good and close to the PC style

[Anonymous No.2521345]

>>2520368
There are Western RPGs like Wild Arms and Fallout.

[Anonymous No.2521373]

Hi, almost every single person in this thread is wrong.

[Anonymous No.2521397]

>>2520356
Maybe I haven't played a whole lot of Japanese RPGs but in the few dozens I finished I mainly fought demon lords, dark gods, evil wizards, dragon kings with the simple dream of destroying the world because they are bad.

[Anonymous No.2521504]

>>2520368
Then why when a japanese studio makes a clone of wizardry we called JRPG and not only that but consider it the JRPG standard?
Then what's SMT?
What's King's Field?
What's SaGa?
What's Souls?
All of those are WRPG just because are don't like the average Final Fantasy?