/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2502648]

What the fuck was Cloud thinking?

[Anonymous No.2502652]

He wasn't. The Jenova cells inside him were assuming direct control over his body.

[Anonymous No.2502949]

>>2502648
he was thinking of the BANTER

[Anonymous No.2502961]

English translation doesn't make this apparent, but jenova basically just possessed everyone that had her cells in them.

Sephiroth didn't really do anything the whole game, just jenova using his form, because she is capable of taking any form she pleases, that's why you see so many sephiroths throughout the game.

This always bothered me, the game made it seem like sephiroth somehow as doing everything instead of jenova.

Jenova broke herself out of midgar for instance, not sephiroth, seph wouldn't just leave his sword in a corpse.

[Anonymous No.2502963]

>>2502652
Roses are red
Violets are blue
ASSUMING CONTROL
THIS HURTS YOU

[Anonymous No.2502976]

>>2502961
I always understood it as Sepheroth using Jenova's cells to reach outside the crater he was in to get the Black Materia and stop Aerith from using Holy, while basically powering up to his final form to prepare for the meteor striking Gaia.

[Anonymous No.2503012]

>>2502976

That's what most people thought, though the japanese translation makes it clear that jenova is behind everything.

I think sephiroth became kind of a state of mind, he ceased to exist after he fell into the life stream, like how cloud also went near retarded, but instead turned into a stream of thought, but this is only based on how seph could manifest after his "death" in the events of FF7, as seen in advent children.

If you take out advent children it was just his form being used by jenova until sephiroth woke up around the time cloud handed the black materia over to his catatonic corpse.

After that sephiroth just wanted to ride the planet with his mother and destroy other planets.

I guess your theory could well be true though, going by crisis core, genesis and angeal were capable of making copies and dictating their actions, but where does that leave jenova? Other than as a catalyst to the events of the games, is she just a retard space god used for her cells?

[Anonymous No.2503018]

>>2502648
He wasn't, actually

[Anonymous No.2503026]

>>2502961
Sephiroth was using Jenova, stop being a retard, it is said in the game a couple of times and even with the shit translation you can understand it.

Sephiroth never "left" his sword on a corpse, that "sword" was a piece of Jenova.

The Seohiroth you are after the whole game is Jenova being controlled by the real Sephitoth.

[Anonymous No.2503041]

>>2503012
>crisis core
>advent children
>dirge of cerberus

Can't take any of that shit into consideration. All cash-ins not properly written.

[Anonymous No.2503168]

>>2503026
Post-Nibelheim incident Sephiroth is a fucking vegetable, only good to be a host for Jenny, and use materia for them.
Taking Sephiroth's form, shit-talking the party, killing "you know who", etc. was just Jenova's MO of using appearance manipulation and mental fuckery to get what it wanted. As soon the black materia was in possession, all that shit ceased.
All the clones were gathered, reaped, and reassembled to get ready to defend the summoning of Meteor. No more taunts or jibes at Cloud because it wasn't necessary to lead him on anymore.
Christ, Sephiroth's the final boss in a FF game, and he doesn't say shit to you before/during/after you fight him.

[Anonymous No.2503175]

>>2503041
Wow now nigga, you best not be shit talking Crisis Core.
I can completely agree about the others, but CC was a pleasant surprise.

[Anonymous No.2503189]

>>2503175

As a game Crisis Core was pretty great honestly, but its hard to take the story seriously because of fucking genesis.

If they just left him out and it was just an enhanced retelling of FF7s backstory, it would have been great on every front, instead its the beast responsible for genesis.

[Anonymous No.2503191]

>>2503175

Uh, yeah...! Real nice surprise we got there...

[Anonymous No.2503212]

>>2502949
He was being an absolute madman?

[Anonymous No.2503651]

I liked to think of Sephiroth and Cloud's strength in two groups, physical strength and mental dominace. After sephiroth jumped into the lifestream, he wasnt physically able to overcome it, but he was mentally tough enough, fucked up and probably so feuled by revenge therein, that he overcame being taken into the lifestream and instead got power to mentally resonate with Jenova cells and force them to act.

That obviously includes Cloud, but he from the getgo, is physically weaker than S3phiroth and completely mindfucked between the time the Nibelheim incident starts and the time the game starts. The final battle in the lifestream is s0ecifically the fight between Cloud's matured mind and Sephiroths.

I thought it was Sephiroth controlling Jenova's cells from afar, but it's possible it acts like that fungal parasyte that leads insects up trees to spread its pollen or whatever and die.

[Anonymous No.2503663]

>>2503175
Crisis core is complete fanboy shit. How can Zack die from bullets when seperioth kills him in ff7? It's literally how seperioth dies for the first and clouds only real motive for wanting to kill him the second time

[Anonymous No.2503667]

>>2502648
"Hey, is this that kind of jelly that you stick your penis into and it feels good? Let me check with my arm."

[Anonymous No.2503671]

>>2503667

[Anonymous No.2503674]

>>2503663

uh? Zack gets executed by shinra soldiers in FF7, did you not see the last flashback with zack in the shinra mansion? You have to approach the pods in the lower end of the basement library to trigger it.

So no, crisis core pretty much accurately describes the games backstory involving zack, except with the extra does of genesis faggotry, and some extra shit for gameplay purposes.

[Anonymous No.2503676]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PLZAI3cUkFM

[Anonymous No.2503683]

>>2503663
They go over the Nibelheim incident in Last Order pretty nicely, and if you're turned off by all the Gackt shit, the ova came out well before CC

[Anonymous No.2506276]

>Cloud is easily manipulated by Sephiroth
>Cloud says to not trust him or give him Black Materia
>Party decides it's a good idea to give Black Materia to Cloud
>Cloud whines about him giving Sephiroth the Black Materia and causing the end of the world
>he was mind controlled with no chance of fighting it (game even emphasizes this)

It's a good thing that everything in FFVII makes a perfect sense isn't it?

[Anonymous No.2506317]

>>2503026
>Sephiroth was using Jenova
> a mere human
> controlling a being that has been destroying planets for thousands of years and grew stronger and stronger
That makes perfect sense!

[Anonymous No.2508575]

>>2503189
>As a game Crisis Core was pretty great honestly

It fucking wasn't.

[Anonymous No.2508590]

>>2506317
Sephiroth's genetics were tampered with in the womb giving him influence over Jenova, who more or less is a mindless vegetable to use as his puppet.

[Anonymous No.2508592]

>>2506317
>Sephiroth
>a mere human

I think the point of Hojo's genetic fuckery was that Sephiroth could assume control of the Jenova genes, and by extension, Jenova itself.

[Anonymous No.2508593]

So, what, Jenova is basically the thing from Slither?

[Anonymous No.2508594]

>>2508590
Forgot to mention that Sephiroth and Jenova effectively were one. The will of Sephiroth became that of Jenova once he discovered his nature and the personality of Sephiroth became the new ego of Jenova.

[Anonymous No.2508626]

Jenova was just another form of Lavos.

[Anonymous No.2508665]

>>2508626
lavos was dr willy all along

[Anonymous No.2508674]

Sephiroth is a genetically-enhanced super soldier bred by Hojo to integrate with cells from Jenova, a once nigh-omnipotent parasite that followed the Ancients to Earth. Jenova is also now long dead (a plot point everyone who debates these things always forgets) and is thus now relegated to basically being genetic flotsam in the lifestream, save for what's left of her corpse, whose cells were harvested and implanted in several test subjects and members of SOLDIER.

During the Nibelheim incident, Sephiroth initially mistakes Jenova for an Ancient, believing that humanity are the descendants of the Ancients that chose to stay. He later learns several days later that neither of these things are true and the knowledge that he is part-monster and was genetically bred that way drives him insane. Fixating on the delusion that humanity is responsible for the condition of the planet, he attacks Nibelheim and is eventually thrown into the lifestream by Cloud, dispersing his consciousness for several years before he rebuilds his psyche, bonding with the Jenova cells introduced into the lifestream via her head when they fell in.

He remains the main antagonist through the events of FF7, controlling physical clones made up of raw Jenova material, as well as influencing those with Jenova cells implanted within them, such as Cloud.

What we're witnessing in the OP is Cloud handing the Black Materia to Sephiroth directly, under Sephiroth's influence via the Jenova cells in Cloud's body. This is the first time in the present story that the original physical Sephiroth appears, and he won't again until Cloud is summoned at the very end of the game to a direct fight against him, where his physical form is dispersed across the entire lifestream, leaving his consciousness to manifest later in Advent Children.

TL;DR - Sephiroth is the villain, Jenova is merely clay for him to work with.

[Anonymous No.2508686]

Would you a Jenova?

[Anonymous No.2508687]

>>2503667
He's Cloud, not Bartz.

[Anonymous No.2508865]

>>2508674
That doesn't explain why only Sephiroth was able to control other clones and why he couldn't determine which species he's related to. Because he only became aware of his genetic identity and powers long after he was born, that suggests he has only incomplete knowledge of himself and he's not a perfect clone. A perfect clone would know his species and innate powers by instinct, not after researching external sources. In DBZ, the villain Cell was a being made up of genetic material from multiple people. He immediately knew what he was, what powers he had, and how to use them right off the bat. That makes more sense than Sephiroth being bred only for fighting wars suddenly know how to manipulate people's minds and the Lifestream after reading some oldbooks in the library.

Only the dead can go to the Lifestream. Why is that only Sephiroth was able to reassemble himself in the Lifestream and not Jenovah? If Sephiroth can put his consciousness in the Lifestream, why can't Jenovah? Having lived amongst the Cetra for many years, she should have working knowledge of about the Lifestream and be able to use it for her own benefit. Since Sephiroth was implanted with Jenovah cells after he was born rather than bred from sex between Jenovah and a human, he should've lost all of his non-human abilities in the Lifestream and hence control over all SOLDIERs because the Jenovah cells weren't really part of his body to begin with, much less his consciousness.

[Anonymous No.2509234]

>>2508865
>That doesn't explain why only Sephiroth was able to control other clones and why he couldn't determine which species he's related to.

Ok, that's two different issues, but the explanations for both are really simple.

His powers of manipulation and control of Jenova cells were inherited when he merged with Jenova in the lifestream. His misunderstanding of his origins comes from being lied to by Hojo, who was working from incomplete knowledge from Gast.

When Jenova was discovered, Shinra assumed she was a dead Ancient. It wasn't until Ifalna spoke with Gast that anyone learned she wasn't. This knowledge never got to Hojo and Sephiroth misconstrued Jenova's genocide of the Ancients as some sort of punishment for staying and devolving into humanity, which wasn't the case - she had actually murdered the Ancients for preventing her from feeding on the planet. The Ancients never intended to settle, they were attacked and murdered until they succeeded in defeating Jenova, but by then were too weak to live and died off, allowing humanity to become the dominant species of the planet, to the point where by the time FF7 takes place, the only Ancient left is Aerith.

>some bullshit about clones and DBZ
Yeah, none of the applies here because Sephiroth isn't a clone. As explained above, he is a genetically-engineered human bred to integrate with Jenova cells.

>Only the dead can go to the Lifestream.
Cloud, Sephiroth and Tifa all go into the lifestream. All eventually regain their consciousness precisely because they AREN'T dead. Jenova has been dead for hundreds of years by the time her body is introduced to the lifestream.

[Anonymous No.2509289]

>>2502648
Rare moment in the game where cloud was hit with such a monumental blow to his ego that he became fully open to and consumed by the jenova instinct - just like sephiroth from the nibelheim incident onward. Fortunately being drenched in lifestream was enough of a jolt to snap him out of it (coma aside)...unlike sephiroth, who, since jenova was always a part of him, only started to realized it upon his final defeat.

[Anonymous No.2509304]

>>2503012
Considering that Jenova was fucking fossilized for a few thousand years I don't think she's mentally there any more. That's probably also why Sephiroth was able to take control of her cells, it wasn't his strong will, there was just nothing there stopping him in the first place.

[Anonymous No.2509307]

>>2503191
I lost it at that pic.
Really, genesis and angeau were just there for the fujoshi fangirls.
The whole zack getting his sword from angeau subplot didnt made much sense either.

[Anonymous No.2509310]

>>2509234
Nearly correct. Jenova was sealed by the Ancients, not killed. Also it's worth mentioning that Sephiroth became fully aware of his true heritage when he traveled the lifestream

[Anonymous No.2509362]

I always viewed Jenova and Sephiroth as being symbiotic by the point the games central conflict kicks off.
If you want to argue semantics it was actually Sephiroth controlling dead Jenova cells after falling into the lifestream, and she was actually dead throughout the game, but by the time you're on your adventure Sephiroth and Jenova were virtually indistinguishable from each other.

[Anonymous No.2509423]

>>2508686
>no r34

what the fuck hentai writers? this shit basically writes itself.

[Anonymous No.2509554]

>>2509310
The process of the sealing killed Jenova though. She was long dead when Shinra found her.

In any case we're all pretty much in agreement here, I think.

>>2509362
Yeah, pretty much.

[Anonymous No.2509561]

>>2508593
No but she was basically the thing from The Thing, though.

[Anonymous No.2509647]

>>2506276
>>2506317
Speaking of things that makes "perfect sense"

Sephiroth has fallen in the makostream/lifestream before, which is basically the blood of the planet. Instead of casting Meteor, why didn't Sephiroth have his clones, who were capable of making it to the Northern Crater, despite the monsters, that are not in control of Sephiroth, just grab Mako Sephiroth and drop him back into the makostream? This way he could have merged with the lifestream in order to take control of it becoming a god ruling over the planet without Cloud and co. being able to do anything to stop him.

Sephiroth's plan to be at the center of the planet's Meteor-inflicted wound, because that's where the lifestream will be gathering? Meteor is hovering above Midgar while Sephiroth is stuck underground in a crystal at the northern crater. Is this a tremendous oversight on Sephiroth's part or am I missing something here?

Also if we acknowledge the existence of Crisis Core Shinra was searching the Promised Land, that according to them was a place full of Mako. Later they find the Northern Crater and assume it to be their Promised Land because it's a place abundant with Mako. In Crisis Core it is implied Shinra already knew where the Northern Crater was located. The result is that in FFVII they were searching for something they had already found.

[Anonymous No.2509661]

>>2509647
He can't take over the planet while it's strong and alive

He basically wants to kill it so he can eat it and move on to eat other planets or something

[Anonymous No.2509675]

>>2509661

So FF7 is just Chrono Trigger without the time travel, which I guess would make sense, since they originally wanted to work on FF7 before CT, but they ended up doing CT first.

[Anonymous No.2509692]

>>2509362
I don't get it. Is Jenova undead? You can't control something that's already dead. If it's not alive, then it has no function. You can only use it as a blueprint for genetic engineering. Maybe it would be more accurate to say Jenovah became a "vegetable" after she was sealed.

[Anonymous No.2510136]

>>2509692
Jenova is basically The Thing.

There's only a primordial consciousness that drives it forward to eat planets or whatever. Any intelligence it acquires in the process is only incidental. Sephiroth's self-delusions about being a god and the son of Jenova were just Jenova fucking with him to achieve her ends.

[Anonymous No.2510139]

>Black Materia
>Is actually dark blue

[Anonymous No.2511570]

>>2509423
eh. there's a little if you hunt around.

[Anonymous No.2511656]

>>2508686
alright, but being exposed to her cells makes the subject susceptible to jenova. so wouldn't that be masturbation?

[Anonymous No.2511734]

>>2511656
Is there something wrong with that?

[Anonymous No.2512268]

>>2511570
Where's its fucking head? This whole thing's stupid. Let's keep goin'.

[Anonymous No.2512990]

Why do people love sucking Sephiroth's dick. He is not even the strongest RPG villain.

[Anonymous No.2513225]

>>2512990

Its probably the long silver hair and the nothin personell kid brand katana

[Anonymous No.2513228]

>>2502648
"I sure due love Wheaties."

[Anonymous No.2513486]

>>2512990
Christ, let's not turn this into a power rankings circlejerk, please. Plus your post basically outed you as someone who would rather value facts than actual character when determining their narrative worth.

[Anonymous No.2514984]

>>2513486
I would say villains with an absolute strength, possibly tied into the very concept of something are far stronger than Sephiroth.

For instance Dark Cloud is an entire universe of evil energy pouring out of a gaping dimensional portal, and Exdeath has a portable black hole or unlimited invincibility or both.

Sephiroth is just a level 50 character in a level 5 setting.

[Anonymous No.2515083]

So we still don't have any idea what Jenova actually is, right?

She was a space alien that crashed onto Gaia from within a meteor in order to eat the planet, and that's all we have?

[Anonymous No.2515092]

>>2515083
>Asks "We have no idea what Jenova is?"
>Then states exactly what she is

[Anonymous No.2515095]

>>2515092
>"and that's all we have?"
I greentexted you're mom, dude.

[Anonymous No.2515097]

>>2515092

Yeah, I mean our only exposure to her really is when she's dead. I'd like to know about when she first arrived and fought the Cetra, would probably be a whole different ball game.

[Anonymous No.2515112]

I wonder who they'll get to voice the "Just a puppet" line. Unless they have Sephiroth do it through a distorter.

[Anonymous No.2515116]

>>2502963
>roses are red
>violets are blue
Why did you say that?
It just isn't true.
Roses /are/ red
and apples are, too,
but violets are violet.
Violets aren't blue.

[Anonymous No.2515119]

>>2515116
A rose coloured white
this I have seen
and not only that
apples of green

[Anonymous No.2515139]

>>2515119
An orange is orange
but Greenland's not green.
A pinky's not pink
so what's it all mean?
To call something blue when it's not, we defile it.
But meh, what the heck: it's hard to rhyme violet.

[Anonymous No.2516123]

>>2515116
>>2515119
>>2515139
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.2516143]

>>2515116
>>2515119
>>2515139
No more rhymes, and I mean it!

[Anonymous No.2516146]

>>2515112
Watch the opening scene of Saya no Uta, it'll probably be something like that.

[Anonymous No.2516172]

>>2515112
Who's saying that line anyways? It's been a while since I played the game, is it supposed to be Jenova?

[Anonymous No.2516189]

>>2516172

Supposedly the only line jenova has in the game, which doesn't make sense if shes dead.

Did she even have any intelligence? Why would she care about the drama between sephiroth and cloud, if she was just a world eating monster?

[Anonymous No.2516227]

>>2516172
Nope, Sephiroth speaking through Jenova cells, as per usual.

[Anonymous No.2516302]

>Sephiroth uses Super Nova
>doesn't kill party
>uses it again

[Anonymous No.2516585]

>>2516302
So, your logic is that if I was trying to kill someone with a gun and the first shot only grazed him, I shouldn't shoot anymore because HE'S INVINCIBLE TO BULLETS LOL

[Anonymous No.2516625]

>>2516585

super nova is like trying to kill someone with boredom though

a gun is a more preferable direct route

[Anonymous No.2516681]

>Sephiroth's Super Nova attack destroys OUR solar system and not the one FFVII takes place
>Cloud and co. still take damage from this for some reason
>Sephiroth can do it multiple times

This makes a perfect sense!

[Anonymous No.2516723]

>>2516189
>Did she even have any intelligence? Why would she care about the drama between sephiroth and cloud, if she was just a world eating monster?
It didn't die. It's hosts may die, and the Jenova cells could be destroyed, but the cetra couldn't kill it, only confine it.
It has instinct, and like the Thing, which has been brought up a bunch in this thread, scrapes enough information from it's hosts and those nearby to use in a cunning, intelligent manner.
It cares about the drama because it knows Cloud's psyche, and how Sephiroth really rustled his jimmies. It warped Cloud's memories, and used the image and characteristics of Sephiroth to have Cloud acquire the Black Materia and bring it to the North Crater.
The whole Sephiroth-Cloud puppetshow charade was orchestrated by Jenova. The reveal coming straight from Jenova, not being delivered by the voice of Sephiroth that Cloud is used to by this point, is Cloud's final eye-opener to his lack of understanding and it mentally breaks him.

>>2516681
>level 100
that ruins it.

[Anonymous No.2516735]

>>2516302
>criticizing final fantasy 7 battle logic

The game has a talking dog-ish creature, condensed energy orbs that allow the use of magic etc etc.
And the battles dont really represent what goes on and are not really supposed to be taken seriously

[Anonymous No.2517323]

>>2516143
>>2516123
A haiku, then:
a fury unmatched
such white-hot intensity
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Anonymous No.2518506]

>>2512268

lol'd

[Anonymous No.2518510]

>>2512990

but he has the fuck longest hair

[Anonymous No.2518537]

>>2516302
>Tifa can suplex Diamond Weapon but can't even lift a small piece of metal scrap.

[Anonymous No.2518548]

>>2516302
I recall that in the Japanese version Supernova had a far less flashy animation and dealt solid damage instead of percentage-based, which meant it could very well kill your party. I don't know who's to blame for the hilarious DBZ galaxy explosion.

[Anonymous No.2518549]

>>2508687
Bartz wouldn't do that. But Galuf would.

[Anonymous No.2518794]

What the fuck was Lucrecia thinking?

[Anonymous No.2518863]

>>2518510
No. Zophar from Lunar II SCD. I don't know if they kept it the same for PSX version, though, but it's definitely longer than Sephie-poo's.

[Anonymous No.2518872]

>>2502648

Baby's first RPG.

[Anonymous No.2518879]

>>2516681
And he uses Earth math to do the calculations required to do the attack. Why does he need to do math?

[Anonymous No.2518905]

>>2502961
>English translation doesn't make this apparent, but jenova basically just possessed everyone that had her cells in them.

No Jenova did that when Sephiroth bent her to his will. It's why the reunion happened in the North Crater instead of the Shinra building

[Anonymous No.2518906]

>>2518879
I cracked up when E=Mc2 comes flying at the screen, that shit makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.2519040]

>>2518905
That assumption is just from Hojo jerking himself off in delusion about the consequences of his experiments.
The head of the Jenova form The Cetra sealed and Shinra preserved, is at the North Crater, as well the cells that Sephiroth is host to, and the location is more fitting for Jenova's scheme than Midgar would have been.

[Anonymous No.2519098]

>>2518794
Hojo had a huge dick
A HUUUUUUGE DICK

[Anonymous No.2519130]

>>2518906
Knowing how much energy there is in a fuckheug meteor that's about to be thrown into what is basically a nuclear reactor seems relevant.

[Anonymous No.2519895]

>>2519098
>that one fucking doujin-series depicting her as a massive slut
much semen was lost once I discovered their existence.

[Anonymous No.2520132]

>>2519895
Link?

[Anonymous No.2520976]

>>2518510
>>2518863

was referencing this

[Anonymous No.2521046]

>>2519130
Why does Sephiroth need to summon a meteor to destroy the planet when he can already do the same thing with a super nova?

[Anonymous No.2521053]

>>2515112

I hope it is reversed backwards a la Twin Peaks

[Anonymous No.2522904]

>>2519098
As a kid I imagined Hojo to look like Jonathan Davis from Korn in a lab coat

[Anonymous No.2522909]

>>2518794
Wheaties

[Anonymous No.2522921]

>>2521046
His super nova is literally the meteor crashing through the solar system before it destroys the sun

[Anonymous No.2525731]

>>2520132
http://exhentai.org/g/702188/79e1c61470/
http://exhentai.org/g/706532/cd77688eff/
http://exhentai.org/g/708893/cc2ed7cc9d/
http://exhentai.org/g/728960/fd54d4827e/
http://exhentai.org/g/753524/e83eb1614e/

enjoy

[Anonymous No.2528039]

>>2503189
>tfw the remake will be retconned for all this bs.

they already said it would be a slightly different story. plus they'll all have fag voices, and fag hair.

[Anonymous No.2528046]

>>2528039
Thank you Obama-care!!