/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2486295]

What was the best FPS in the 1990s, and why is it Shadow Warrior?

[Anonymous No.2486342]

inb4 doombabies

[Anonymous No.2486354]

I didn't like shadow warrior. The weapons weren't that cool and the enemies seemed bland, except for those beasts.
As impressive as some of the things they managed to do with the build engine were, they really should have just made the game fully 3d.

[Anonymous No.2486357]

>What is x and why is it y

It's like I'm really on /v/

[Anonymous No.2486365]

>>2486357
its like youre never going to reproduce

[Anonymous No.2486386]

I prefer Marathon for the story

[Anonymous No.2486389]

Quake

[Anonymous No.2486392]

>>2486295
>inb4 some hipster says Blood

[Anonymous No.2486401]

>>2486365
I'll never reproduce a thread this shitty, that's for certain.

OP is a faggot etc.

[Anonymous No.2486403]

>>2486401
not even OP lol

[Anonymous No.2486448]

>>2486392
>inafter some pleb couldn't handle blood

[Anonymous No.2486462]

I haven't played anything past Doom 1 that has the same fantastic level design. Nobody even bothered to balance things for pistolstarts after Doom 2, making the games mostly about shooting everything in sight instead of tactical survival puzzles.

Seriously, the maps in the original episodes are fucking masterpieces. If you enjoy 2 more you have shit taste, though it's still a good game.

[Anonymous No.2486474]

>>2486462
Duke 3D and SW are both balanced for pistol starts you utterly retarded '90s born pleb.

[Anonymous No.2487354]

>>2486357
/v/ is actually better than this place because it isn't full of jackasses like you.

[Anonymous No.2487365]

Best FPS from the 90s?

Singleplayer? Quake

Multiplayer? Unreal Tournament

[NESfag No.2487367]

Shadow Warrior is amazing indeed, but it didn't have Blood's gameplay depth nor did it have DN3D's novelty factor.

Its multiplayer and modding/mapping communities also never picked up, meaning that once you're done with the game and its 2 add-ons, there isn't much to play with.
Which is a shame because A) honestly, deathmatch in SW is some of the best FPS deathmatch I've ever played, and that comes from someone who sank hundreds and hunderds of hours in Q3A, UT and other games ; and B) there is a lot of amazing shit to build as far as SW map making is concerned, the surfaced of what's possible has never even been SCRATCHED.

[Anonymous No.2487402]

>>2486392
>liking blood makes you a hipster now.
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.2487523]

>>2486357
Gettin' real sick of your "muh secret club" shit. 4chan is 4chan and the quality of posts doesn't vary much from board to board, like your shitpost displays.

[Anonymous No.2487529]

>>2487367

It used the BUILD engine to it's fullest capacity, however.

[Anonymous No.2487535]

>>2487367

Can't help but wonder why vanishingly few indie devs are using BUILD to make pixel art 3Dish games. I have seen a few but it's really ideal for that.

[NESfag No.2487536]

>>2487529
I wouldn't say that. Surely there is a lot more you can do with SW than with DN3D and other "first" Build games, but in many ways what the devs of Blood did is superior, like with Room Over Room for instance.

Also nowadays you can do a lot, lot, lot more with EDuke32 than with Blood or SW combined.

[Anonymous No.2487540]

>>2487523
>the quality of posts doesn't vary much from board to board

[Anonymous No.2487542]

>>2487536

I wonder if, with enough shaders and advanced lighting slapped on there, the BUILD engine could be used for a current gen game. Why? To leverage some of the quirky things you can only do in such an engine in a way that makes for interesting gameplay.

There is precedent. Chasm used what was essentially an engine like ROTTs but with poly objects to compete visually with Quake.

[Anonymous No.2487556]

>>2487354
>/v/
>not full of jackasses
go back to /v/

[Anonymous No.2487558]

>>2486295
shadow warrior is fun but it certainly isn't the best. most of the enemies are hitscan faggots and bullet sponges at that. quake 1 is my favorite fps of the 90s, though i have played quake 3 arena much, much more.

[Anonymous No.2487561]

>>2486295
As good looking and interesting as shadow warrior was, I didn't find the level design to be very interesting and fun. If only more levels were animated to the extent that the first was then I could've enjoyed the levels alot more.

[Anonymous No.2487570]

>>2486354
Shadow warrior had the coolest weapons you faggot. Nuke launcher was the best

[Anonymous No.2487586]

>>2486295
The level design is good for the first few maps, but degrades later into a total mess. Some nice features and quirks show up only once, never to be seen again, etc.

All in all, Unreal was THE best FPS in the 90's

[NESfag No.2487592]

>>2487542
Check out those :

http://www.moddb.com/games/slenders-woods
http://www.moddb.com/games/sonic-the-hedgehog-3d
http://www.moddb.com/games/yume-nikki-3d

[NESfag No.2487595]

>>2487592
>>2487542
also pic related

I'm trying to find screenshots of a WIP project that looks more amazing than all of those, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

[Anonymous No.2487597]

I really like Blood, but the technical glitches and bugs just prove too much for me.
How are the remakes of Duke3d and Shadow warrior?
Also, should I use Eduke or the megaton edition?

[NESfag No.2487976]

>>2487592
>>2487595
>>2487542
I found what I was looking for, pic related. Build with EDuke32.

>>2487597
What glitches and bugs for Blood?

There is no remake of DN3D

You should use EDuke32. There is so much wrong with Megaton I wouldn't know where to begin.

[Anonymous No.2487987]

>>2487595
What's that from?

[Anonymous No.2488006]

I like duke nukem 3d and quake better than shadow warrior. You mad?

[Anonymous No.2488017]

>>2486295
I don't know which was the best, but I do know that the one I had most fun with, was Duke Nukem 3d.

[Anonymous No.2488161]

>>2486462
Doom's first episode is the mapset to play - just beautiful in every way imaginable. Romero, although I find him annoying, had a pretty good grip on mapping.

Shadow Warrior was extremely cool but compared to Blood it seemed vastly inferior. Maps like the Overlooked Hotel are mile ahead of any Shadow Warrior comic landscape. Multiplayer was hilarious though and definitely delivered the "Wang" humor.

[Anonymous No.2488206]

i love exhumed. it's hard, satisfying and with a good atmosphere

[NESfag No.2488242]

>>2488206
imo Exhumed (DOS) and Redneck Rampage Rides Again In Arkansas (the sequel to the first RR) have some of the best level design of any Doom-era FPS

[Anonymous No.2488401]

>>2487402
Doesn't everyone in the /DOOM/ thread love BLOOD?

>>2488006
I like time to kill more than DN3D. you nazi?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CbuAx-GK9U

Way better level design than any Build game.

[Anonymous No.2488417]

>>2487586
The level design in shadow warrior just cause you were too stupid to hit the switch that says pull doesnt mean the map design is bad. I know how many of you shitty little faggots get lost in zilla construction

[Anonymous No.2488429]

>>2488401
>that gameplay

[Anonymous No.2488432]

>>2488401
>that gameplay

[Anonymous No.2488437]

I really enjoyed Redneck Rampage and Duke 3D. Rise of the Triad was also pretty boss.

[Anonymous No.2488542]

>>2486295
As neat as the reloading was, it annoyed me how you couldn't do it manually. Also the Riot Gun's reload was totally unjustified, especially when firing semi-auto.

[Anonymous No.2488992]

>>2486392
nah, marathon is the hipster answer

people like it for muh story and never say a word about the gameplay, it's on the hipster computer, and it has the "you've probably never heard of it" thing going for it

perfect formula for a hipster's game

[Anonymous No.2489025]

>>2487556
No I'm here to stay. Got a problem with that then you fuck off chump.

[Anonymous No.2489048]

>>2486295
Rise of the triad.

[Anonymous No.2489051]

>>2487540
Way to prove their point.

[Anonymous No.2489064]

>>2489048

For me, the top is a three way tie: ROTT-Shadow Warrior-Blood

Honorable mentions for Dark Forces and Doom

[Anonymous No.2489067]

>>2486462
Duke 3D maps are balanced for pistol starts. Sometimes it's tough when it throws things like battlelords at you (fucking Hostile Territory...), but most maps play quite well.

Shadow Warrior plays fine this way and is actually pretty easy because you get so much ammo in the pickups, and they're usually plentiful.

Blood... sometimes I'm not sure they put too much effort into doing it. It can be a real bitch at times, even when you're not on the highest difficulties. But I do think it was considered, and all levels are certainly possible to complete. The Cryptic Passage levels are much more forgiving and almost always give you a shotgun right at the start.

[Anonymous No.2489245]

>>2486295
Shogo

[Anonymous No.2489272]

Postal best graphics, most developed story and most innovative.

[Anonymous No.2489293]

Chex Quest.

[Anonymous No.2489429]

>>2487976
Not him, but I ended up buying Megaton because EDuke32 was giving me horrible screen tearing.

Turing on Vsync made the fps drop significantly and didn't even fix the issue.
The port also turs Aero off, and forcing it on, apparently, introduces new issues.

I'm currently stuck with a shitty ATI card, unfortunately.
Megaton, while not optimal, did fix my problems and worked much better overall.

[Anonymous No.2489527]

Quake.

[Anonymous No.2489541]

>>2489272
worst controls
Even for the times that game felt like hot garbage to play.

[Anonymous No.2489557]

>>2486295
Quake had the whole package:
>Level Design
>"Story"
>Hub AND linear layout
>music + atmosphere were 10/10
>secret levels with low gravity
>hard as fuck levels the further you progress through the episodes. (especially for an 8 year old...)

While all the "3D" games were great, doom, dark forces, DN3D, Exhumed, marathon, etc. I think Quake and Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight (1997) are the top FPS games from the era.
Doom64 should also get an honorable mention.

[NESfag No.2489743]

>>2489067
I tried Blood pitchfork start. Every level is possible that way, with enough ammo, except from maybe one or two bossfights where I had had to end the boss with the pitchfork.

That was on the 2nd to hardest difficulty.

The difference with Blood compared to other games though, is that if you play a pitchfork start on that high difficulty, the game works under the principle that you know at least half of the secret places, and you'll have enough ammo if you find half of the secret places. On lower difficulties you don't need them, but you do need them on higher difficulties. Imo it's kinda smart that way, because people who play on that high difficulty will already have palyed the game on a lower difficulty before and will already know some secret places; and if not, are more likely to find them this time around.

>>2489429
Megaton is incredibly glitchy. The glitches already existing in the original game are a lot more likely to happen in megaton than they were in the original or in any other port, and Megaton also has its own new glitches too. it's the reason why speedrunners use Megaton (and it gives a bad rep on DN3D's suppposed glitchyness while in fact it's just Megaton).

Megaton also has a forced true 3D renderer that looks pretty bad and is very basic compared to that same renderer in EDuke32. Megaton doesn't even give you the possibility to play in the original 2.5D renderer, what Build really is.

Megaton's "widescreen" support consists in a zoom-in. That's just a random example but it shows how much of a lazy quick hack job it was.

[Anonymous No.2489754]

I know Megaton is shitty, but it's better than the alternative in my case.

>Megaton's "widescreen" support consists in a zoom-in
This I did not know. That's REALLY shitty and lazy.

On the topic of Shadow Warrior: How does SWP compare to Redux? Is it as good of a port as EDuke32?

[Anonymous No.2489757]

>>2489743
I know Megaton is shitty, but it's better than the alternative in my case.

>Megaton's "widescreen" support consists in a zoom-in
This I did not know. That's REALLY shitty and lazy.

On the topic of Shadow Warrior: How does SWP compare to Redux? Is it as good of a port as EDuke32?

[NESfag No.2489765]

>>2489757
imo so far none of SW's sourceports are perfect.

Redux is pretty good but it has the same forced 3D renderer I do not like.

SWP can be kind of glitchy (things such as which renderer you chose or whether or not you want music in the options not triggering properly).

For me the best way to play SW is in dosbox.

[Anonymous No.2489776]

>>2489765
you have autism though so it won't matter to most people

[Anonymous No.2489780]

>>2486295
>Shadow Warrior
That's a weird way to spell Descent II.

[NESfag No.2489781]

>>2489776
It's called standard, not autism.

When you have the choice watching a movie on bluray with proper aspect ratio and in the original language, and watching that same movie pan&scanned and dubbed on TV, if you take the later, you have shit taste.

[Anonymous No.2489783]

>>2489781
except the remakes look better you only have an autistic tick that keeps you from enjoying it cause "it's not exactly the same" if the original version had the megaton glitches you would still love the fuck out of it cause its still a solid game and the core gameplay is intact. That isn't standards that is you being a sperg. I think your shitty analogy is better applied to fake scanlines.

[Anonymous No.2489784]

>>2488242
yeah, i loved the level design. i guess i'll try redneck rampage 2 then

[NESfag No.2489798]

>>2489783
2.5D games aren't made to be 3D. When you turn to full 3D and only change the renderer, it looks completely off. All the sprites look flat as if you were playing paper goddamn mario and nothing belongs. It also influences gameplay as you're able to see and shoot things that are high above or below you that you wouldn't be able to see and shouldn't see in the original game.
Visibility and shading is also completely off in Megaton with a lot less contrast.

My analogy is spot on. An analogy with scanlines would be should I watch this movie from the 50's on a CRT or on a LED TV.

[NESfag No.2489801]

>>2489783
>>2489798
If you want another analogy, Megaton is to the original DN3D kinda what the Silent Hill2&3 HD re-releases on PS3 are to the original PS2 games.

[Anonymous No.2489804]

>>2489783
>autistic tick

[Anonymous No.2489807]

>>2489798
they look flat in a raycast engine too you retard. And the lighting actually looked like that if you used certain drivers use 3dfx glide and see how fuckin bright duke3d gets. Shooting cardboard cutout pigcops doesn't become unfun cause you stick them in a fully 3d renderer you fuckin autist.

[NESfag No.2489825]

>>2489807
The story and acting of the movie doesn't get worse if you watch it pan&scanned either. Doesn't mean you should force yourself to watch it in those conditions especially when you have the choice to do otherwise.

i'm going to stop here though because we're turning in round and the only thing you do is spout insults for no reason. Why are you so mad? Why do you turn a perfectly fine conversations on sourceports into an insult-fest?

[Anonymous No.2489827]

>>2489825
because you're a condescending faggot who tells people they are having fun the wrong way. I used to like you and agreed with you about a bunch of things but you are way too clingy on the original build engine. Not everybody has an old shitty PC they can play dosgames natively on and use the modern ports out of convenience cause dosbox runs those games like shit. I hate playing darkforces in dosbox.

[Anonymous No.2489864]

so.... System Shock 2 was released in 1999.

could it be the best of the 90s?

[Anonymous No.2489882]

Half Life.

[Anonymous No.2489895]

>>2487976
>Build with EDuke32.

There is no fucking way. Name of the project please.

[Anonymous No.2489903]

>>2486295
Duke Nukem shits on Shadow Warrior. It's the best build game there was.

[Anonymous No.2489905]

>>2489864
It could be if it were it were good.

[Anonymous No.2489906]

>>2488417
Screw you, elitistic faggot, I'm a Doomer since 94 and I've seen more switchhunts than you could possibly fathom.


By "degrading" I meant less details, less intersection and nonlinearity, less consistency etc. And all the neat features shown in the first maps (remember when you had to drive an RC car with the key to you?) disappear in the later ones.

[NESfag No.2489908]

>>2489827
>because you're a condescending faggot who tells people they are having fun the wrong way

People asked what sourceports they should use, I give some insightful comments on the cons of this or that because I know the subject a little. Up to them to choose, then.
The only one here "telling people they are having fun the wrong way" is you, towards me, because I dared point out the flaws of the sourceport you used to play a game.

The discussion was absolutely fine until you showed up all raging and spouting 2 insults per sentence only because I pointed out how glitchy was the precious Megaton you paid 5 bucks for.


>>2489895
It's a WIP project, that might not even ever see the light of the day. I only showed the pic regarding the conversation earlier, as a proof of what's possible nowadays with EDuke32.. It uses EDuke32's polymer lighting, MD3 models and high-res textures support.

You can check out those finished, playable and standalone EDuke32 projects though; but keep in mind they are far from using the engine to its full potential >>2487592

[Anonymous No.2489918]

>>2489827
Ever heard of "billboarding"? Thats the type of handling the sprites.
Raycast draws sprites along with everything else, resulting in a proper engine.
Some 3D renderers try to emulate that via billboarding hacks and adjustments.

Megathon and SWRedux 3D engine is very basic, and does not do those adjustments, and instead render them on a flat polygon, which facilitates the "paper mario effect" that was being talked about earlier.

If you take screenshots of the sprites under various angles in both Megaton renderer and vanilla raycast, you'll see what I mean.

If you want to see sprite billboarding and rendering done right - see Strife Veteran edition. Kaiser Villarreal is a genius.

[Anonymous No.2490898]

>>2489908
I paid 5 bucks and got shadowwarrior too, and I still prefer playing those versions even though I have the DOS ones on gog and the original CD for duke. You are an autistic cunt and the only thing keeping you from enjoying megaton is OCD.

[Anonymous No.2490929]

>>2490898
>claiming to prefer a shitty 3D renderer when there's an option for a good 3D renderer (eDuke been out for quite a while)
>calling someone autistic cunt for pointing out obvious bullshit

Buyers remorse much?

[Anonymous No.2491057]

>>2489541
Shhhh. Just let the goofy goober feel like he contributed to the thread.

[Anonymous No.2491138]

>>2490929
eduke is faggot shit that is to complicated to get my normalfag friends to play with me. Eduke is a thousand times better but megaton is convenient. It found a good balance between convenient and accurate so the normies won't even notice. At least with megaton i can play with my friends without having to explain to their dumbasses how to run a sourceport

[Anonymous No.2491390]

Winner: Dooom

Runner-up: Goldeneye

[Anonymous No.2491847]

>>2489905
>were
was*
Just helping to make /vr/ a better place by correcting your poor grammar there, chum!

[Anonymous No.2491923]

>>2491138
>eduke is to complicated to get my normalfag friends to play with me

OMG how casual are yo friends, if they can't extract 2 archives to the same folder?

Not to mention there are ready-to-use packages in the torrents.

[Anonymous No.2491942]

>>2491923
pretty fuckin casual dude. It's a struggle to get them to play anything retro with me.

[Anonymous No.2491947]

>>2491942
Then make a Ready-To-Use package yourself. You know you can just throw it out on a thumbdrive, and it'll still work?

[Anonymous No.2492840]

>>2486295
>Shadow Warrior
You spelld modern warfare 3 wrong

[Anonymous No.2492846]

>>2491847
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_subjunctive

[Anonymous No.2492865]

>>2492846
That's great but none of you seemed to have noticed that he wrote "it were it were," which is most definitely not correct.

[Anonymous No.2492868]

I wouldn't say that it is my favorite, but it is certainly the best. My friends and I played the ever living fuck out of this game because it was really kind of one of the first games I can remember where you really felt like you were exploring. It seems silly nowadays, but this game had some serious shit going for it.

My favorite was probably either Quake, Goldeneye, or Marathon.

[Anonymous No.2493374]

>>2489783
I bet you like HOMM3 HD, Ubishill.

[Anonymous No.2493381]

>>2486392
Blood is awesome but clearly not the best.

[Anonymous No.2494685]

>>2492865
Stutter typing. Early-onset alzheimers.

[Anonymous No.2494693]

Quake single player, quake 2 online. Best fps games. Shadow warrior has terrible level design, it's awful. Fun game however. I played daikatana first day it was released. One of the worst games ever!

[Anonymous No.2495254]

For me...

1. Blood
2. Final Doom (Plutonia)
3. Quake
4. Duke Nukem 3D
5. Shadow Warrior
6. Doom II (I am excluding fan content for this list's ordering. Including fan made megawads etc Doom II would be my number 1)
7. Ultimate Doom
8. Half Life
9. Quake II
10. w/e

Wish I got into Quake III when it was huge. Too me that represents the high water mark of FPS gameplay.

https://yadi.sk/d/d5LGrRONXJfQ4

I love watching Quake 3/Live duals at tournaments etc. It's fucking great but I never got into it sadly because I was sidetracked with Counter-Strike when all that 'realism' felt fresh as fuck after growing up on countless Doom clones etc as a kid.

[Anonymous No.2495260]

It was Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear.

[Anonymous No.2495639]

>>2486295
Best Build game, but not the best FPS overall.

[Anonymous No.2496997]

[Anonymous No.2497293]

>>2487365
Huh? Doom has better SP than Quake. Quake's bag was multiplayer, which speaking of was significantly better than well everything actually. It's still the best MP in existence.
UT had more game modes but worse gameplay. UT was also a fairly buggy mess.

[Anonymous No.2497318]

>>2494693
>I played daikatana first day it was released. One of the worst games ever!

Get out of here with your controversial opinions sir

[Anonymous No.2497347]

>>2497293
I thought the Quake singleplayer was far far superior to doom singleplayer. cant see how anyone would think otherwise

[Anonymous No.2497645]

>>2496997
Impressive.

[Anonymous No.2497723]

>>2496997

How does he grenade jump without blowing himself up? Easy modo?

[Anonymous No.2498190]

>>2497645
thanks

>>2497723
you just literally jump off the grenade, by the time it explodes you're too far away for it to damage you

[Anonymous No.2498205]

>>2498190

That's fucking sick, I had no idea you could do that.

[Anonymous No.2499809]

>>2496997
More webms please

[Anonymous No.2500767]

Turok 2 was pretty great.
It was too hard for me to beat as a kid, Anyone know if the game holds up?

[Anonymous No.2500774]

>>2500767
>if the game holds up?
nah
too slow + movement sucks
boring gunplay
console version is also a slideshow
beautiful game and decent level design though

[Anonymous No.2500879]

>>2493381
>clearly
elaborate pls

[Anonymous No.2500887]

>>2500767
clunky but playable

[Anonymous No.2500895]

>>2500887
i love that predator influence with the arm computer thing

[Anonymous No.2500897]

>>2500887
you are now imagining how he actually run.

[Anonymous No.2500914]

>>2497293
Agree + the adrenaline rush and power trip is second to none.
I remember LAN matches getting pretty serious with lots of profanity/aggression.

[Anonymous No.2500918]

>>2500895
He has a cloak and a self destruct, both like predator.

[Anonymous No.2500932]

>>2487561
Agree, that opening level was hype as fuck.

[NESfag No.2501039]

>>2496997
Nice, I had no idea you could do that either. Does in work in vanilla too? I see this is using Redux

[Anonymous No.2501075]

>>2486295
boring enemies and fights despite the initial cool factor of the weapon. An fps with no interesting fights and enemies cannot be the best of anything.

[Anonymous No.2501079]

>>2501039
ye it works in vanilla, it feels a little more difficult though but that might just be me

far as i know there's no differences between redux/vanilla for stuff like grenade jumping/clips/etc

[Anonymous No.2501083]

>>2497293
shut the fuck up, it isn't so obvious.

The setting in quake was certainly more impressive and the fights were pretty cool and frantic, the enemies had all interesting behaviors that worked together with the level design to keep things interesting, it is even more true if you consider all the custom levels.

[Anonymous No.2501087]

>>2501083
dont forget those secret levels with low gravity.

and all those levels where you have to travel through underwater cages, or on platforms that never stop....

[NESfag No.2501092]

>>2501079
>ye it works in vanilla, it feels a little more difficult though but that might just be me

It wouldn't be surprising if it wasn't "just you" though

[Anonymous No.2501171]

killing fields is best

>>2501092
After trying it for a little bit the vanilla version is definitely slightly different, seems like you don't land on the grenade as easily