/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2470452]

I just finished Sonic CD and i thought it was really bad.

Everything I heard about this game was people raving about how it was the best genesis Sonic. Is that just cause no one had a Sega CD so it became like a mythical Sonic game? Kind of like how people like Earthbound cause its $300?

Pretty much the only problem with it was the godawful level design, which went in a completely different direction than Sonic 2 and 3.

[Anonymous No.2470453]

>>2470452
>the best genesis Sonic.
Nobody says that. And anyways, you didn't pay for it so why are you bitching about the price?

[Anonymous No.2470468]

>>2470452
>Pretty much the only problem with it was the godawful level design, which went in a completely different direction than Sonic 2 and 3.
Read up on the development history, anon. Don't play it expecting Sonic 2 and 3 because that's pure hindsight.

[Anonymous No.2470476]

the genesis sonic games were terrible with the possible exception of sonic3

[Anonymous No.2470494]

>>2470476

Standalone Sonic 3 is the worst of the classic Sonic titles.

Also OP, nobody raves about Sonic CD being the best genesis Sonic, and I bet you got the bad ending.

[Anonymous No.2470496]

>>2470452
Stage design in CD is... weird. You get some great levels like Quartz Quadrant and then some really fucking bad ones like Stardust Speedway and Wacky Workbench.
A lot of it is designed to deliberately slow the player down regularly, too. You can keep a normal Sonic pace in CD, but a straight run through without foreknowledge in CD ends up feeling a lot slower than in Sonic 2 or 3&K.

I do think that Tidal Tempest is the second best water zone in the series, right below Hydrocity in Sonic 3.

I wonder how much of the Sonic CD team worked on Knuckles Chaotix. VERY similar art design and similarly weak level design.

[Anonymous No.2470498]

>>2470452
> kind of like how people like earthbound because it's $300

I like you

[Anonymous No.2470507]

>>2470453
A lot of people say that.

I payed $2.50 for the steam version.

Im not bitching about the price, I'm simply suggesting its a reason for people thinking its good.

>>2470468
I know. That doesn't change the fact that the level design is really bad. Sonic 2 and 3 actually knew what kind of levels worked for Sonic. In CD if you don't care about the secondary objectives 99% of each level is pointless. Its incredibly easy and short but somehow manages to still be frustrating. Its the only genesis Sonic that actually has unfair offscreen traps that trolls pretend is typical of the series, it often impossible to travel through time without getting lucky or finding two springs that bounce into each other. Not to mention that every level felt like abstract platforms floating in space instead of cohesive worlds (Sonic 1 had this problem as well besides Green Hill Zone).

>>2470476
I disagree with that sentence but I agree that 3 is best

[Anonymous No.2470509]

>Everything I heard about this game was people raving about how it was the best genesis Sonic

Real people or Sonic fanboys? There is a HUGE difference.

[Anonymous No.2470519]

>>2470494
While I don't really think anyone should bother playing standalone Sonic 3, I'd say its better than 1.

[Anonymous No.2470521]

I played it for the first time last year and thought it was excellent. I honestly think you might be playing it wrong, you're not supposed to rush to the end of the level, you're supposed to go back in time and destroy the generator thing. Then get to the end with 50 rings. It's really more about exploration that any other 2D Sonic.

[Anonymous No.2470535]

>>2470519

I dunno, I feel Sonic 1 is kinda underrated.
Standalone Sonic 3 was disappointing to me as a kid. And yeah, I had no option but to play it alone since S&K didn't come out yet back then.

[Anonymous No.2470538]

>>2470521
For what purpose? A different ending cutscene that I can just watch on youtube?

If you really think that will make me appreciate it more, I'm willing to try it. But its still bad that beating the game the normal way isn't fun. And if secondary objectives made it so much better, the game needs to have some real motivation to get players to do that in the first place.

[Anonymous No.2470542]

The Taxman version is far fucking better in almost every way.

EU/JP soundtrack is fucking godlike. OP/ED cutscenes are great. It's probably got the best atmosphere of the classic series. I really like it for how different it is and I much prefer it to Sonic 1.

Like >>2470521 said, it's way more about exploration and travelling back in time to make the good future in every stage. You get the most out of the game by doing that and getting the timestones.

[Anonymous No.2470548]

>>2470538

>For what purpose? A different ending cutscene that I can just watch on youtube?

Dude, just don't play any videogame, watch them all on youtube, there's a lot of letsplayers and e-celebs you can follow and shit.

Yes, Sonic CD feels a bit shallow if you just play to get to the goal (unless you're going for time attack), the game gets more interesting when you actually use the time travel mechanic and explore around for the time generators. You will see there's a lot of vertical platforming and I thought it was fun, and a different approach to the classic Sonic formula.

Anyway yeah, we've had this thread a hundred times, there's people who don't like Sonic CD for the reasons you listen, and other people who do like it for the reasons we say (more exploration, bigger levels, etc).
If you don't like it, even after actually playing it the way it's meant to be played, that's fine. Nobody is really saying it's the best Sonic ever. Because that's Sonic 2

[Anonymous No.2470551]

>>2470542

Too bad the taxman version removed the time reset mechanic (that is, when you time travel either to the past or future and you're over 5 minutes into the level, the timer won't reset to 5'00'' like the original Sega CD version does).

I also don't see the point in using the Sonic 2's spindash when Sonic CD has super peel out, but that's optional so it's all good, doesn't hurt to have an option (although I think the default is the Sonic 2 spindash)

[Anonymous No.2470556]

>>2470535

Sonic 1 just has too many levels I hate, like Marble and Labyrinth Zone. I'm also not a huge fan of the Star Light and the casino zone, so I basically don't enjoy more than 60% of the game. The only one I don't like in Sonic 3 is Marble Garden, but that might just be me.

I can understand you being disappointed with Sonic 3, since it is literally an unfinished game so it has no catharsis, and has like half the amount of levels as Sonic 2. Sonic 1 is definitely more complete. I probably would have hated Sonic 3 if I played it when it released, but only in comparison to Sonic 2.

Now though in 2015, standalone Sonic 3 really only exists as a curiosity.

[Anonymous No.2470560]

>>2470556
>The only one I don't like in Sonic 3 is Marble Garden, but that might just be me.
That's definitely just you.

The only level I'm not overly fond of in S3&K is Sky Sanctuary and it's still pretty good.

I dislike the last few levels of Sonic 2 though. I can't stand everything from Metropolis onwards.

[Anonymous No.2470562]

>>2470548

>Dude, just don't play any videogame, watch them all on youtube, there's a lot of letsplayers and e-celebs you can follow and shit.

I don't play video games just to unlock cutscenes. Secondary objectives need a content reward.

There is plenty of exploration in Sonic 3&K, and the levels are bigger in that game too. I feel like this game would only be even somewhat impressive if I lived in a vaccum where Sonic 2 and 3 never came out.

[Anonymous No.2470567]

>>2470560
>Sky Sanctuary

That's my favorite zone lmao

probably just cause of the music

[Anonymous No.2470568]

all sonic games are terrible, but at least sonic cd has that bitching intro and music.

[Anonymous No.2470570]

>>2470556

I love Marble Zone, and Labyrinth was a genuine challenge when I was a kid. Now though, I know the level layout by heart so it's not hard anymore, but I still think it's not that bad.
Marble Garden in Sonic 3 feels like a drag, I agree with you, but I also dislike Carnivel Night Zone (Sonic CD is a clusterfuck you guys say? Try Carnival Night!) and while Angel Island and Launch base aren't bad levels, they're boring.
Hydrocity is the only level I really love from Sonic 3.

I love both Starlight Zone and Spring Yard Zone (I guess you meant that one, Casino Night is in Sonic 2), they're actually my favorites zones from Sonic 1.

[Anonymous No.2470571]

>>2470567
I definitely don't hate it but if I had to pick a least favourite it'd be that one but fuck - back to CD

Gonna play me some Taxman CD later because of this thread.

[Anonymous No.2470572]

>>2470562

There's really not that much exploration in S3&K, the levels just drag on too much and have annoying parts, but there's no exploration.
And Sonic 2's levels are as linear as they can get (still love it though)

Seriously, give the exploration side of Sonic CD a go, I don't promise anything, but you might enjoy the game in a different way.

[Anonymous No.2470573]

>>2470572
>but there's no exploration.
But that's not true. There's like 4 routes through every level.

[Anonymous No.2470575]

and you've got to explore to find most of the big rings.

[Anonymous No.2470576]

>>2470452
>Kind of like how people like Earthbound cause its $300?

this guy

[Anonymous No.2470580]

>>2470573
>>2470575

Compared to the kind of exploration and vertical platforming Sonic CD has, the whole "exploration" elements on S3&K feel very barebones.

[Anonymous No.2470581]

Hey guys you know [critically acclaimed and fan favorite game]?
I just finished playing it [for the first time/since I was a kid].
I just realized [incredibly trivial subjective concern ruins game/game was never good/game isn't as good as shitty unpopular game].
Why does anyone like [obviously popular great game]?

[Anonymous No.2470587]

>>2470581

Sadly this is the template for at least 50% of threads on /vr/

[Anonymous No.2470602]

>>2470581
>level design
>trivial concern

ok

[Anonymous No.2470613]

>>2470602

I think trivial is not the keyword there. Subjective is.

[Anonymous No.2470620]

>>2470452
1) it's not a genesis game
2) the best genesis sonic is obviously sonic 2
3) my understanding is everyone says sonic 2 is the best sonic game
4) your eb joke, while hilarious, proves you are a troll

1/10 for effort

[Anonymous No.2470628]

>>2470507
>"This doesn't work for Sonic! Sonic 1 had the same problem!"
>ignoring that Sonic 1 was the first fucking game and therefore "what Sonic should be" wasn't a thing
>ignoring that CD started development parallel to Sonic 2, and therefore "what Sonic should be" was just Sonic 1
Lemme guess, your first Sonic game was Adventure 2 Battle for the GameCube.

>"but-but-but I'm totally old enough to remember all these games!"
No you weren't, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.2470630]

>>2470452
Sonic CD is a great game. Don't talk shit about it.

[Anonymous No.2470651]

As far as I'm concerned Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 on md/gen were the only good Sonic games ever. Maybe I didn't play Sonic 3 enough or other Sonic games enough to know better (I've played and beat a few). The fact that I don't actually feel like playing any more of them demonstrates that I don't think they're that good. Sonic was fun when I was 10.

[Anonymous No.2471130]

>Sonic 2 is the best Genesis Sonic
I'm not ignorant enough to believe that there aren't people out there who genuinely feel this way, but I can't help but feel people who say this often haven't played Sonic 3 and Knuckles. It came out so late in the Genesis life span that I think that is the case most of the time.

[Anonymous No.2471141]

>>2471130

You honestly believe there are people who haven't played S3&K?

Although yeah, the way it was released originally was shit (basically DLC in the 90s), but with emulation and all the Sonic collections like Sonic Mega Collection, and emulation for free, a lot of people have dude.

Some of us just prefer Sonic 2 because we like the level design, art direction and music better than in 3&K.
3&K is still a great game though, but it has a lot of levels I don't enjoy, whereas I like the majority of Sonic 2.

One thing I never liked about Sonic 3 when I first played it was how the art direction changed, gone were the psychedelic palette and Jpop-y soundtrack. I didn't like the new, semi-realistic color palette in 3, and while the music was still good /Hydrocity and Ice Cap are incredibly good), the overall soundtrack was dull compared to Sonic 1 and 2's.

[Anonymous No.2471152]

>>2471130
I played both when they first came out. Still remember that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were both released at full price each. Still to this day refuse to classify Sonic 3 & Knuckles as one single game, and therefore put Sonic 2 above both.

[Anonymous No.2471160]

>>2470452
In defense of this game, I think it's not like any other. Sonic 2 and CD were originally going to be the same game, but the kind of gameplay totally split between them both. I think this is why people love or hate CD.

>Sonic 2
Run around and jump. Your only real objective is to get to the end. You can also grab Chaos Emeralds, but you don't have to go out of your way to do it because of how you access special stages. This is mostly akin to Sonic 1. Some people don't like the idea of this kind of "stop and go" gameplay but that's a minority.

>Sonic CD
The gameplay in this one is about exploring stuff and finding THINGS, and really deeply exploring the environment. You find the time travelly posts all over the place (only in later stages do you have to seek them out). Then you have to find a section where you can gain/sustain speed. The environments are a little more puzzle like and basically designed so you DO NOT get to run fast. You have to find a place where it's designed or be really clever about it, which is very rewarding. You CAN just go through all the levels, but you'll be frustrated and bored because of the design.

I think they're both great games and this is mostly opinion. I love CD to death for the amazing music and different gameplay, but I think it's not for everyone.

[Anonymous No.2471170]

Best Sonic CD track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snTdU8riops

Best US track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON1_geFiP5s

[Anonymous No.2471181]

>>2470453
>Nobody says that.

The correct term would be that Sonic CD is the best Sega CD Sonic game. Correct because it is the ONLY one as well; and it does not mean that the game is good.

Well it's good, but definitely not great. The level design is bullshit, the bosses are insanely unimpressive, the game feels like it runs at 30fps at certain scenes. Cutscenes and the music saves it.

>>2470496
Nigga Stardust Speedway is by far the best level in Sonic CD.
Wacky Workbench was indeed a boring shitfest, on par with Metallic Madness Act 2. That level is made in such a way that if you take a wrong turn once, you won't be able to backtrack and go on the correct route without hitting the 10minute time limit first.

[Anonymous No.2471184]

>>2470452
>I just finished Sonic CD and i thought it was really bad.

with it.

[Anonymous No.2471194]

>>2471181
>the game feels like it runs at 30fps at certain scenes

How?

Are you playing the version from the Gems Collection by any chance? I heard that one was based on the PC port, which I remember having some issues. In fact I remember playing Sonic CD on Gems Collection for PS2 and I felt like it had input lag.
But it's not the case with the original Sega CD version, and I'd believe the HD re-release is also fine.

And I agree about the bosses being kind of unimpressive (the first boss looks amazing, but it's easy as shit). However, it has the Metal Sonic race which kinda makes up for it.

[Anonymous No.2471195]

Sonic CD would've been better had it been a Genesis game. They would've been forced to constrain and streamline the game, like what happened with 2, whereas CD as released is a meandering mess that tries to go in multiple different directions at once.

[Anonymous No.2471213]

>>2471194
No, Mega cd original. fuck the ports.

A lot of levels feel like they are dropping frames to keep up speed. Stardust Speedway is the most visible because it has all those flashy neon signs.
The framerate just doesn't feel "smooth".

Metal Sonic race was boring as shit.

The final boss theme song was the only good thing about the bosses in the game. That theme was pretty darn good though. I can't think of any better "sinister mad scientist" theme than either that, or its Xmas Nights version. Maybe Powerhouse (by the Raymond Scott quintet) would be a contender for that.

[Anonymous No.2471215]

Sonic CD is my favourite sonic game. It's pretty much the only game that gives you a reason to git gud and learn how to maintain momentum.
Also people who complain about the level design should try and actually destroy the machines, instead of rushing through a vertically designed level and then talk shit about it.
The boss fights while easy are more creative than "hit Robotnik 8 times while he's throwing shit at you".
The Super peel out is amazing.
The art direction, unlike Sonic 2 and 3, is very psychedelic.
The weakest thing from this game is Wacky Workbench and the US ost, and even that's not nearly as bad as ppl make it sound.

[Anonymous No.2471236]

>>2471215
>It's pretty much the only game that gives you a reason to git gud and learn how to maintain momentum.

No, that was Sonic 1, because it had no spin dash. CD has a gimped spin dash, and the peel out move.
You don't really need to keep your momentum anyway, unless you want to do time warps, and the only reason for that is if you want to explore (there's an easier way to get the good ending).

>Also people who complain about the level design should try and actually destroy the machines, instead of rushing through a vertically designed level and then talk shit about it.

Why even bother? Just collect 50 rings before you finish each level, and then beat the special stages. Automatic good ending.

>The boss fights while easy are more creative than "hit Robotnik 8 times while he's throwing shit at you".

Half the bosses don't even attack you, they just prance around until you kill them.

>even that's not nearly as bad as ppl make it sound.

Wacky Workbench is WORSE than what people make it sound. It is the single shittiest Sonic level on the Megadrive.

[Anonymous No.2471241]

>>2471236
You have no reason to maintain momentum in sonic 1 other than going fast.
Just because the game gives you another option to get the good ending, doesn't mean that you should always choose that one. Also there's more in a videogame other than "getting the good ending" y'know.
>Half the bosses don't even attack you
That's not true at all.
>It is the single shittiest Sonic level on the Megadrive.
>Megadrive

[Anonymous No.2471256]

>>2470452
>people like Earthbound cause its $300?
First playthrough was on emulator and at the time I didn't know about the price or obscurity it once had. I liked it because I liked it.

[Anonymous No.2471258]

>>2471241
>>It is the single shittiest Sonic level on the Megadrive.
>>Megadrive

I'll never understand why people throw a shitfit when you refer to Sega CD games as Genesis games. Nobody does this when you refer to a FDS game as a Famicom game, and nobody does this when you refer to a PC Engine CD games as a PCE game (And I've never heard anybody refer to Rondo of Blood as anything but a PCE game). The Sega CD may be a seperate piece of hardware, but by and large, beyond the extra memory, the things still run on the Genesis.

[Anonymous No.2471259]

>>2471241
Not that guy, but there's no such thing as a standalone Sega CD. It's a Genesis add-on, therefore Sonic CD counts as a Genesis game. Same with Knuckles Chaotix. Both games require you to have a Genesis in order to play them.

>>2471236
>Half the bosses don't even attack you, they just prance around until you kill them.
I actually liked that because the challenge was something other than "memorize this basic pattern and hit the boss" ad nauseum like every other Sonic game. Also the gimped spin dash was great from a gameplay point of view. You could either use the spindash, which was less effective but kept you mostly invulnerable, or you could use the peel-out which was more effective but kept you vulnerable. The biggest complaint with 2 and 3&K is the spindash make them too easy and make enemies completely trivial outside of Metropolis Zone.

[||D.||.||\/||.||D No.2471289]

Just played this again today and it's really good if you play it as more of an exploration based game rather than just going fast like the other Mega Drive Sonics

[Anonymous No.2471332]

>>2470628

>Lemme guess, your first Sonic game was Adventure 2 Battle for the GameCube.
>"but-but-but I'm totally old enough to remember all these games!"

Actually, that was my second. My first was the pc port of 3&K. Does the fact that I'm not 40 years old trigger you?

I know about all your fun development trivia facts, I can read Wikipedia too. Just cause Sonic CD had no prior expectations live up to doesn't mean that it didn't make the wrong decisions.

[Anonymous No.2471376]

I wish there was a way to turn off the time travel system. It really interrupts the flow of the game for me. You've got to either avoid all the time posts, or slow down right before you warp to play without changing time periods.

[Anonymous No.2471419]

>>2471332
Except your main criteria of "wrong decision" is "this doesn't match what I think is what the series should be, which was formulated entirely in hindsight"

[Anonymous No.2471427]

I've never liked this shitty game either OP, never understood why people liked it. It's a fucking clusterfuck.

[Anonymous No.2471708]

>>2471332
>SA2B on GC was my second game.
>My first was the pc port of 3&K.
>the fucking PC port with that horrible MIDI music

Dear god.

Also what the fuck, having played Sonic 1 on the Genesis when it came out makes me a 40 year old? Because I'm pretty sure I'm not.

[Anonymous No.2471743]

>>2471376

didn't Time Attack mode remove the posts?

[Anonymous No.2471750]

>>2471743
Yes, but after each stage you go back to the menu. I'd like to play through the whole game uninterrupted.

[Anonymous No.2472160]

>>2471708

Second Sonic game, not second game.

>the fucking PC port with that horrible MIDI music

It was actually pretty fucking good. We had the better Ice Cap and Launch Base themes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fESnHVue0U&index=13&list=PL91EF12D8C64F3645

[Anonymous No.2472178]

>>2471750

well you ask too much honey

>>2472160

>these versions
>better than the original ones

>fucking Ice Cap
>better on PC

No means to offend you, I actually find it cute.

[Anonymous No.2472260]

>>2472178
no anon, YOUR cute

[Anonymous No.2472348]

I played it on Steam and enjoyed it a lot, completed it with both soundtracks and characters. I love the absurdly bright feeling of the game and weird vocal tracks, very unique.

[Anonymous No.2472714]

>>2471213
>fuck the ports
The Taxman version is a remake, not a port.

It's better in almost every regard. Play that instead. There's no reason to go back to the original when that version exists.

[Anonymous No.2472781]

>>2471170
Good taste.
>>2471160
Agreed about the exploration part with CD.

[||D.||.||\/||.||D No.2472912]

>>2472160
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLuQZ4Gnjkc
fucking hell m8 this has to be a troll

[Anonymous No.2472960]

>>2472912
Can't fucking beat the original for Hard Times.

That PC version is fucking awful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OWC5Hosv8

[Anonymous No.2472984]

The problem with the PC version is the music is output through MIDI to save space, which butchers the sound. The music from the other stages is similarly butchered, so it's not just the replacement tracks being worse.

[||D.||.||\/||.||D No.2474034]

>>2472960
haha never heard this before, its pretty good

[THIS the right place? No.2474039]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DMUB7FsIQg

[Anonymous No.2475234]

>>2471152
>It's not one game because it was twice as expensive

Dude it's not like they split it on purpose to grab more money. Release the full game in one was technically impossible, because the game was so fucking huge. Each half part of it was already bigger than Sonic1. When they have enough contents as that, demanding a full price isn't an unfair deal, although it actually was a half of the real one. Also they somehow managed to invent a way to connect two physically seperated carts to make a combined full game. How can one not appreciate that?

[Anonymous No.2476196]

>>2471708
>PC S3&K
mah nigga

[Anonymous No.2476213]

>>2472912

its a MIDI, the way it sounds depends on your sound card. it sounds nice on my computer

[Anonymous No.2477138]

>>2470452
This was a strange game, I never really got the point of the time shift signs, sometimes they changed the level other times not. It is also the only sonic game I beat by just running forward, there were never any real obstacles in the level, I just ran, jumped, which usually sent me sailing ad nauseam without fail until the end, the bosses being easy and unmemorable. Weird experience, loved the main theme song.

[Anonymous No.2477153]

Sonic CD is so dreamy

[Anonymous No.2477161]

>>2477138

Everything about it captured that next gen awe, when I was a kid. It was on a CD, required an addon, it had strange new gameplay mechanics, way better music, new art, new graphical effects I'd never seen the Genesis do, etc.

In retrospect yeah, not so great on its own merits. But as a flagship title to make people want the Sega CD? Did its job.

[Anonymous No.2477274]

>>2477161

What graphical effects on Sonic CD couldn't have been handled with just the Genesis?
I'm thinking maybe the loop that changes perspective on the first level, but I think that might have been possible with the Genesis, it's just a nice visual trick. Then, the mecha Robotnik's using on the first zone also looks like something impressive, or at least I remember thinking that it was a "next gen" kind of thing to me as a kid, or something the Genesis couldn't do like you say, but the game overall looks like a more colorful and psychedelic Sonic 1, don't remember any other crazy thing on it, graphics-wise. Did the Sega CD improve on the color palette?

[Anonymous No.2477281]

>>2477274
>I'm thinking maybe the loop that changes perspective on the first level,

That's just a parallax trick.

>Did the Sega CD improve on the color palette?

No, it only added rotation/zoom support, PCM audio, and CD audio. Plus some extra memory and a faster 68k, if you can be arsed to use those because communicating with the SCD was a pain in the ass for programmers, and the sub-68k was mostly tied up just controlling the CD.

The only parts of Sonic CD that a stock MD could not do were the music, some sampled voices (they are possible but would sound worse), and the special stages and sound test ("D.A. Garden"). Maybe the FMVs too, but that's just limited by cartridge space.

[Anonymous No.2477294]

>>2477281

Oh right, I completely forgot about the special stages.