[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games

View post   
File: 253 KB, 1198x676, Sharp_HotBit_MSX_computer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2469867 No.2469867 [Reply] [Original]

underrated computers?

>> No.2469871

>>2407264

Already a thread. Use it.

>> No.2469875

>>2469871
oh sorry

>> No.2469919

How is the MSX underrated? I can't get the appeal at all, it seems more overrated to me than anything.

>>2469871
This isn't /vg/.

>> No.2469937

>>2469919
It had a great library and where I lived in NA it didn't really get a lot of attention, I know it was different in europe


also they like to keep us in that thread since they don't see computer games as proper retrogames (or so I was told be some random shitposter who came to our general a few hours ago)

>> No.2470019

>>2469937
>also they like to keep us in that thread since they don't see computer games as proper retrogames
No actual user of /vr/ is going to claim something like this.

>> No.2470098
File: 6 KB, 256x192, p511.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2470098

>>2469937
>also they like to keep us in that thread since they don't see computer games as proper retrogames

I've seen enough computer game threads to know that's not true. There is always talk about various 90's FPS games, RTS, railroad tycoon, CRPGs, and other stuff.

Anyway, I think ZX Spectrum is underated compared to other 8-bit computers. I like its bright, cheery palette a lot more than C64 anyway. With some care it's possible to make nice-looking games. Pic-related is this:
http://www.sickhappyidle.com/spectrum/page210.html

I also prefer Spectrum version of Level 9 adventures, precisely because the graphics are simpler and more abstract (compared to say the intricate Amiga version which leaves less to the imagination).

>> No.2470637

>>2470098
yeah, late 90's games is it, that's why the thread that exists was specifically created to exclude late 90's things because if it did then it would be way to fast and that's all that would be discussed. I feel /vr/ going the exact same direction as 6th gen discussion creeps in. I have no clue why people think the definition changes, and the shitposting by them is rampant, probably because you'd have to be pretty fucking young to consider a 6th generation console "retro"

>> No.2470673

MSX is just a standardized spec for home computers that utilizes a Z80+TMS 9918+TMS 9919 chipset. The exact same guts as the Colecovision. Although dozens of MSX machines were sold in Japan, Europe, and Latin America, they never became a part of the US computing world thanks to the video game crash - only one MSX machine was ever sold here.

>> No.2470701

>>2470673
How was the crash affecting the computer market? It seems like it just came too late to carve out a share between Commodore, Atari and Apple.
In Europe there were bigger gaps in the different nations and the MSX managed to grab a hold in some of them.

>> No.2470702

>>2470673
But home computers like the MSX were what caused the console crash. It's that nobody wanted to compete with Commodore and Apple.

>> No.2470707

>>2470702
That's not actually true. Here. I explained the details in these posts.

>>2469541
>>2469521
>>2469540
>>2469602
>>2469896
>>2469942
>>2469532

>> No.2472787

>>2470098
Maybe I haven't given the Spectrum enough credit. It always looks like the cheapest possible thing with those simple colours, rubber keyboard, beeper sound and tapes as the main storage medium but ultimately it should also come down to the quality of programmers and games.

>> No.2472850

>>2472787
90% of Spectrum games also exist on the C64 and Amstrad do.

>> No.2472863
File: 48 KB, 736x414, 8c9496905533b056728f9c86ff15f02b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2472863

Anyone ever heard of the Pasopia? It's an old Japanese computer by Toshiba. I'm not sure why I'm so interested in it, it just seems cool. There's a freaking 2001 A Space Odyssey game on it by Technosoft of all people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yaoPnbm-dk

>> No.2472971

MSX appeared to be an interesting oddity in Europooristan. Only knew it from reviews in magazines and the games looked kinda PC 8086' like. I think I had an emu of it on my machine because of Snatcher.

>> No.2472981
File: 2.88 MB, 4200x2180, Intellivision-Console-Set.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2472981

I play Snafu with friends at parties. It's second only as a party game to Chu Chu Rocket.
Impressive for something that is older than the nes.

>> No.2473249

>>2472787
Well it *was* cheap compared to some other 8-bit computers like C64 and Amstrad CPC. It's probably closer in spirit to the VIC-20, but those less powerful machines are still capable of doing interesting things...

ZX DEMOSCENE - Jam by Digital Reality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6MHTDpG2Wk

Robotic Liberation by PWP (VIC-20):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8

As far as games, I think it was the original platform for classic stuff like Jet Set Willy, Paperboy, Knight Lore, Dizzy series... You don't really need a lot of raw power for those kinds of games, but they're still fun.

The machine is limited, but not to an almost crippling level, like its predecessors (ZX-80 and ZX-81). I think it was even still somewhat popular in Russia throughout the 90's.

>> No.2473349

>>2472863
I know that Koichi Miyanaga's history of Japanese PCs involves his work at Toshiba around the time of the Pasopia 7. The machine just wasn't that powerful or well-supported for developers to make the most of, so it floundered and later became an MSX brand for the company. Apparently Oh! PASOPIA, the all-purpose magazine for Pasopia users, lasted until 1986, which is cool. That 2001 game appeared on many different PCs of the era because Tecno Soft loved to port to as many platforms as possible (except the MSX, at least when K. Yoshimura was still at the company).

We talk about this most often in /jpc/ in case anyone's curious: >>2399271

>>2470702
lol

>>2469919
MSX is overrated mainly in the sense that people latch onto it without trying to learn about other J-PC cultures, so it comes across as fan bandwagon-ing sometimes. This will naturally fix itself over time as there's more info and games EOPs can play that came out for the Big Three (8-/16-bit platforms from NEC, Sharp, and Fujitsu). Otherwise the MSX is awesome.

>> No.2473420
File: 151 KB, 600x490, caprice32-410-dbg-un-emulateur-amstrad-cpc[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2473420

Poor ol' CPC never gets any lovin'
But I got a soft spot for it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJosZfm560Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zem0L53tR4U

>> No.2473435

>>2473420
was my first computer and my first stationary gaming machine, i had a gameboy and game and watches during the same time.
sadly the discdrive died so i lost it along the way,

>> No.2473587

>>2473435
I don't have my old CPC either (it was also my first computer). Now I'm looking at ads on french equivalent of craigslist and waiting for a good deal. :-)

As for the floppy drive, it's probably not useful much anymore, because floppy disks in general are rare now, and that special 3-inch format is even more so. It's probably better to just get a "floppy emulator" board that plugs into the cable and lets you use flash memory storage.

The other problem with CPC is how the power supply is located inside the monitor.

>> No.2473608

Apple II
C64
Amiga
MSX

>> No.2473614

>>2473608
>underrated computers
>lists a bunch of popular hipster computers

>> No.2473728

>>2473349
>MSX is overrated mainly in the sense that people latch onto it without trying to learn about other J-PC cultures, so it comes across as fan bandwagon-ing sometimes. This will naturally fix itself over time as there's more info and games EOPs can play that came out for the Big Three (8-/16-bit platforms from NEC, Sharp, and Fujitsu). Otherwise the MSX is awesome

MSX isn't as alien to Westerners because it had a lot of familiar arcade games ported to it and the computer's guts were the same as the Colecovision.

>> No.2473765

>>2473608
C64 underrated? By who?

>> No.2474083

>>2470673
That's not entirely true for MSX2 though. It is backwards compatible at least.

There's also a ROM on it which takes care of other stuff that differentiates it from the Colecovision.

>> No.2474096

Are retro computers free from the price hikes of retro games consoles?

>> No.2474294
File: 260 KB, 1280x960, 1280px-Sinclair_ZX81_Setup_PhotoManipped.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474294

>>2474096
I guess it depends on the computer in question and your location.

Probably Apple II and Mac Classic/SE machines are going to cost a lot because of the "chic factor" associated with the brand name.

I've also noticed Amiga machines get priced up, but I'm not sure who's buying (probably the remaining hardcore Amiga fanbase buying dozens of backup machines "just in case", LOL). Oh, and I've seen some overpriced C64 stuff on craigslist.

Otherwise the prices I've seen aren't unreasonable. Depends on the seller too though. Some of them slap "vintage" on anything old and expect to make lotsa money even if the thing doesn't boot up or whatever...

But on the plus side, you're bound to find some kind of old computer at a decent price. It might not be your first choice or ideal machine, but if you're getting into the hobby to learn about old computers, to tinker, or to code on them, then one machine from the 80's is still very similar in spirit to other machines of that era. Plus, many games were ported to several machines, so there's plenty of stuff to play also.

It's funny though because 10+ years ago people were just throwing all all that old "crap" but now they want money for it. Maybe in time this will pass...

Here, have an underrated ZX-81. :-) If you can't find one for like $20 in your location, search instead for a TRS-80 MC10 (or its french equivalent, the Matra Alice).

>> No.2474312

>>2474294
>Here, have an underrated ZX-81

That's not a computer, it's a plastic children's toy.

>> No.2474314

>>2474096
NO.

Retro computers have been jumped on frenziedly by SJW-reseller scum. Those bastards leverage some really nasty advantages, like how if they can't get the stuff to be lucrative for them, they'll just scrap it, ranting and raving that they are amazingly green to do so, even if they have an operation that anyone with half of an understanding of environmental issues can tell is not at all ecologically friendly.

>> No.2474336
File: 29 KB, 552x310, trs80-iii.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474336

>>2474312
Well, Yuropoors like cutesy things. American computers look like they were carved from a block of granite.

>> No.2474372
File: 26 KB, 500x325, 1191692939_f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474372

>>2469867
>mine
/tread
>jk

>> No.2474387

>>2474336
no, just americans don't like pieces of garbage that were out dated before they were even made, not sure why europeans settle for this stuff, even the games you guys to this day talk about how great they are feel like some teenager's programming class project

>> No.2474392

>>2474372
wut?

>> No.2474398

>>2474387
They sold the ZX-81 in North America as the Timex Sinclair 1000. It was the butt of jokes.

>> No.2474404

>>2474387
Who was that British game programmer that said "The Nintendo console blew us away with the sophistication and polish of its games, especially when compared with most computer games of the time."

>> No.2474405

>>2474398
I'm not sure what your point is, since it wasn't popular in the US...

>> No.2474428
File: 38 KB, 600x450, alice-matra.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474428

>>2474312
I guess you haven't seen the Alice then? It even had matching red tape deck and qt3.14 thermal printer. I think it's cute, and for a good price, I'd buy one. It's true that these machines had very limited RAM (like only 4 KB) but so did the VIC-20 (okay that one had 5 KB). Anyway, the RAM can be expanded, but part of the fun is also hacking on them and seeing what you can do with such limited resources. I mean, compared to what modern coding has become (using libraries for everything and not really giving a damn about hardware constraints or what's really going on in the machine), this is like a much needed breath of fresh air.

>> No.2474437
File: 159 KB, 1026x272, ZXsf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474437

>> No.2474441
File: 65 KB, 746x526, Sage 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474441

>>2473614
Are you suggesting there is nothing new or interesting here, just pretentious defensiveness? Only, with systems being much more of an issue of quality than creativity and such, it's even harder for them to be underrated?

So, should we be saging this thread?

>> No.2474561
File: 80 KB, 272x572, TI-85_I1092.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474561

Here's another underrated number for y'all.
This bitch got a Z80 @ 6MHz and 28 KB RAM under her skirt. Ohhhhh yeah!!!

There's even all kinda games and stuff for it:
http://www.ticalc.org/

I don 't know if I can handle it though. Might have to start out with a *real* old school scientific calculator. The ones that don't graph and only have tiny bits of memory. Saw some kind of game in french magazine Jeux & Strategie for one of them babies in the 80's. Something about explorin' a tower or dungeon and killin' orcs and stuff. The whole program listing fit on like just one page column. Gotta see if I can find that again...

>> No.2474697

So in what European countries was the MSX a thing? I know it was the third biggest computer in Spain above c64, but that's about it.

>> No.2474750
File: 109 KB, 681x789, pc98uv2v.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474750

The PC-98 isn't obscure but it often gets reduced to a dedicated eroge machine.
There's actually a lot of variety to the system, it's practically the Japanese equivalent to IBM PCs without clones.

>> No.2474758

>>2474294
Underrated? I can't even give mine away, with the ram expansion and a bunch of old math tapes. It has a negative rating.

>> No.2474768

TRS 80, Commodore PET, Apple II and IBM PC if you're into 8-bit games.

>> No.2474780

>>2474750
Aren't the later PC-98 computers called PC-98 in name only? They're pretty much IBM clones right?

>> No.2474792

>>2474780
The very late models (NX) are basically just regular Win 9x machines but they had some models with PC-98 compatibility.

>> No.2474796

>>2474780
No, there are slight low-level differences in all PC-98 models vs. IBM x86 PCs (plus 640x400-resolution display modes unlike the 640x480 standard used in the U.S. back then). The PC-9821 line is closer to an IBM PC clone if that's what you're thinking of. Epson produced PC-98 clones; both they and Sharp put out their own IBM PC clones too.

>> No.2474798
File: 120 KB, 992x549, epe11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2474798

>>2474796
>Epson produced PC-98 clones; both they and Sharp put out their own IBM PC clones too

I saw an Epson XT clone in a flea market once; it had dual 5.25" floppies. Not same model as pictured.

>> No.2474831

>>2474798
I had an old Epson with two 5.25 drives and no hard drive. Used to run BBS software (I think some version of Citadel) on one floppy, and the message forums for the BBS were written to the other floppy. More than a few times I'd come home from school with the disk full and the BBS stuck in a write attempt until someone hung up on it. Those were the days.

>> No.2475007
File: 2.22 MB, 2807x1908, Atari_1040STf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2475007

Best PC ports at the time

>> No.2475017

>>2475007
umm... no... most ST games were inferior ports of the Amiga versions...

>> No.2475029

>>2474561
>TI-85
>under rated
every highschool and college math student were required to have one of these back in the day. Hell, my sister is going through medical school and they still require you have a TI graphing calculator.

>> No.2475031

>>2473614
>hipster computers
oh screw off
also that guy was probably just trying to troll and massively failing

>> No.2475035

>>2472863
the original wasn't very popular, though toshiba went on the use the Pasopia brand for their line of MSX machines, in fact once in a while you well see some stupid youtubeer claiming that it was just an MSX line.

>> No.2475041

>>2475017
butbutbutmuhnostalgia

>> No.2475047

>>2475041
haha

>> No.2475053

>>2475047
Cancer posters gonna cancer. Him and this guy >>2474831 taking credit for his dad's old BBS back in the day.

>> No.2475058

>>2475053
and yet you seem to feel the need to shitpost yourself, good job

>> No.2475062

>>2475053
cancer is not a verb

>> No.2475064

>>2474831
>More than a few times I'd come home from school with the disk full and the BBS stuck in a write attempt until someone hung up on it
The damn things only hold 360k.

>> No.2476330

>>2474758
I'll gladly take if off your hands :^)
srsly tho can i have it

>> No.2476384

>>2475029
I got out of high school last year and they still made you use them, mostly because they didn't want people using the "I was using my phone as a calculator" excuse.

>> No.2476458

>>2474314
Really? Haven't heard about the reseller scrapping thing, but if true that's terrifying.

I used to do community service at a recycling center, you can't imagine all the cool shit that we had to throw out, doomed to rot in some shithole in Africa, and we couldn't take it because of data liability bullshit, even though most of them didn't even have hard drives.