/vr/ - Retro Games

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/rsg/ - Retro Shmups General Anonymous Tue Jun 2 13:45:13 2015 No.2445150 [Reply] [Original]

This thread is for all things related to traditional and bullet hell 2D scrolling shooter games.

What are...
>your favorite shooters
>your recent procurements
>your newest accomplishments

Play Twinkle Star Sprites against others:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/wa8ajjdu7ptbjbn/twinkle_pak.7z

New to shooters? Check out this helpful page:
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/shooters/shmups-101-a-beginners-guide-to-2d-shooters

Stream list for watching people play shooters:
http://stgrillz.appspot.com

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 13:54:06 2015 No.2445163 >>2445150 Darius Gaiden

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 13:57:02 2015 No.2445169 >>2445150 there's a shmup thread already up

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 14:01:19 2015 No.2445181 >>2445169 It's not the general though, and has too much /v/-tier shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 14:32:12 2015 No.2445229 >>2445150 Picked up hellfire, thunderforce 2, and 3 for the genesis yesterday. Hellfire is definitely a fun one.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 14:41:07 2015 No.2445260 Gradius is too hard, dood. Is Gradius 2 easier? Also, how good is the Saturn collection compared to the rest of the collections? That's the one I've been playing. I know other collections have more games but I'm talking about the ports themselves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 14:53:31 2015 No.2445286 >>2445150 >your favorite shooters Galaga '88, Final Star Force, Blazing Lazors, DoDonPachi, Touhou 07, Mars Matrix >your recent procurements none. >your newest accomplishments I beat the first boss in Mars Matrix without dying.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 15:42:20 2015 No.2445368 File: 689 KB, 1035x850, 1433021325141.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Reposting the poll from the last thread for general interest. http://strawpoll.me/4496713

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 15:50:57 2015 No.2445385 >>2445368 >still no Takumi They're much more noteworthy than fucking Psikyo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 15:59:18 2015 No.2445407 >>2445260 >Gradius is too hard, dood. Keep at it, I didn't have that much trouble getting a 1cc aside from stage 4. >Is Gradius 2 easier? No, it's much longer and tougher along with introducing the boss rush staple.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:01:42 2015 No.2445414 File: 14 KB, 228x221, good vibes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw Darius Gaiden was your first shmup >dad bought it because he saw the "robot fish" and "you like robots, don't you?"

Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:14:43 2015 No.2445439
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>>2445150
for me the vertical shmups have peaked around the NES era (Life Force and Zanac - i play them to this day, from time to time)
Never cared about them since then.

Casually, was checking out the new stuff (such as Jets'n'Guns - pretty rad soundtrack it had - Sine Mora, Resogun.. Have never finished any of the three.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:37:44 2015 No.2445503 >>2445150 go back to /jp/. posting that streaming shit here is obnoxious.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:39:13 2015 No.2445507 >>2445503 STGWeekly is featured on it, your argument is invalid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:41:33 2015 No.2445519 >>2445503 /jp/ deletes shmup threads now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:45:26 2015 No.2445525 >>2445519 stgweekly isn't /vr/. >>2445519 sucks to be you, then. or you can just post in existing threads without trying to transplant your general and your streaming here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:55:38 2015 No.2445546 >>2445525 >a video/livestream series that helps people learn about shmups where they've covered several retro shmups isn't /vr/ Reported for shitposting outside of /b/.

Anonymous Tue Jun 2 16:57:56 2015 No.2445549
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Does anyone know why my score board in R-Type (World) is fucked?
I somehow have no score board anymore and the Hi-score always just says "817En700" or something.

I'm using shmupmame 2.2. Is there perhaps any way you can turn off the score board and I did this by mistake?

Anonymous Tue Jun 2 17:00:59 2015 No.2445553

>>2445150
>>your favorite shooters
R-Type series
>>your recent procurements
I only emulate, but I am thinking about buying an arcade stick for shmups
>>your newest accomplishments
I just made it to stage 6 in R-Type Leo with one continue for the first time

Anonymous Tue Jun 2 17:20:00 2015 No.2445584

>>2445546
report yourself then, since your post is against the rules.

but here, i'll spell it out for you, since your snippy retorts show demonstrate that you obviously don't get it.

something that sometimes covers retro games is not retro. it's sometimes retro. more importantly, even if stgweekly were entirely retro, including it alphabetically in an alphabetized list (hardly "featuring" it) of dozens of streams, most of which rarely touch anything retro (and many of which are exclusively windows toho), does not suddenly make the streaming list retro.

if you guys like your streaming site and your board culture, fine. but it isn't /vr/, so don't come here with it and try to own a shmup general thread, especially when there's already a shmup thread. if /jp/ mods kicked you out then go bitch to them because that's where this shit belongs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 17:45:02 2015 No.2445624 >>2445584 It belongs on /vg/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 20:42:21 2015 No.2445948 >>2445519 this isn't true, it's just no one has bothered to post one in a while because touhou is dead

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 21:13:16 2015 No.2446007 What was your most intense shmup moment, /vr/? For me, it was when I somehow managed to survive 2 stages in Gradius without any power-ups. I had nothing but 2 speed ups, missiles and double.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 21:13:43 2015 No.2446009 >>2445624 posting this on /v/ leads to "autism" and "lol more dead than RTS", on /jp/ it's just 2hu faggotry, and on /vg/ it gets ignored because they only care about fotm games there

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 21:21:17 2015 No.2446024 >>2445584 >report yourself then, since your post is against the rules. There is nothing wrong with watching other players to improve your shmup strats. You're just an idiot, and probably don't even play shmups.

Anonymous Tue Jun 2 21:23:26 2015 No.2446030
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its depressing as hell to say but /vr/ has by far the best shmup threads

if someone wants to post a Crimzon Clover or Mushi Futari score, this is probably the only place where people in the threads would actually care.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 21:25:26 2015 No.2446034 >>2445948 >touhou is dead It hurts...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 2 21:29:25 2015 No.2446042 >>2445948 >touhou is dead Good riddance. toho 7 was best toho

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 00:53:14 2015 No.2446437 >>2446034 >>2446042 I really enjoyed the demo for 15, actually.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:03:17 2015 No.2446447

So I've been trying to find some shmup OSTs recently to build a playlist up, but it's pretty difficult finding the soundtracks for a lot of these games.
So far I only have a handful of things that I got off the /v/ soundtrack google doc and some stuff I've found on here.
Does anyone have a decent collection they're willing to share?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:04:20 2015 No.2446448 >>2445948 what happened to 2hus?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:05:26 2015 No.2446450 >>2446448 ZUN's art somehow got worse

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:08:00 2015 No.2446453 Just set up MAME to play some dodonpachi because of the fucking bangin soundtrack, any other arcade shmups I should check out?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:11:53 2015 No.2446457 >>2446453 Too many. What type of game are you looking for?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:13:04 2015 No.2446461 Are you a bad enough dude to clear Donpachi-HK?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:35:55 2015 No.2446494 >>2446453 I like ESPerade.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 01:44:55 2015 No.2446508 >>2446461 Fuck no, best I can do is 3cc the Saturn game, on a good day when I've had my Ritalin.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 03:11:56 2015 No.2446616

>Favorite shmups
Gradius, Gradius III (SNES), Dodonpachi, Mars Matrix, Touhou 7 and 11.
>Recent procurements
None, I emulate. Surely gonna download Radiant Silvergun and ESP.ra.de.
>Newest accomplishment
Beating the first two levels of Mars Matrix with a single life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 03:41:30 2015 No.2446649 Gee, Radiant Silvergun is so much different than everything else, in every way... maybe I haven't played enough STGs. I also can't ever seem to care about scoring as opposed to survival, but when I have to score to survive, that changes pretty quickly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 03:42:25 2015 No.2446651 >>2446649 Have you played Ikaruga yet? You should.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 03:44:10 2015 No.2446654 >>2446651 I have, a bit. I found out yesterday that you can win without shooting and it made me giggle quite a bit. I haven't gotten too entranced by it yet, but maybe that will change in the future!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 04:47:36 2015 No.2446738 >>2446651 But anon, Silvergun is leagues better than Ikaruga.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 04:50:57 2015 No.2446742 Been playing Metal Black (SAT) off and on. That game is a bit of a ballkicker, you really have to memorize that shit. Fantastic music and art though. Also been meaning to get shmupmame set up again and stuff but damn I'm lazy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 04:52:57 2015 No.2446743 >>2446738 >>2446651 They're too different to be compared all the time. It's like comparing OK Computer and Kid A, just because they were made by the same artist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 09:37:47 2015 No.2446959 >>2446649 >I also can't ever seem to care about scoring as opposed to survival, but when I have to score to survive, that changes pretty quickly. Play some Raizing games.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 14:19:44 2015 No.2447413 >>2446743 Maybe, but if you ask me, RSG feels like the more complete game, with many more awesome bosses and far longer levels, and your ship has so many cool weapons. Ikaruga feels too barebones by contrast.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 15:32:40 2015 No.2447539 File: 194 KB, 700x700, sadsuwako.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >there will never be a Giga Wing 4

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 15:42:34 2015 No.2447567 http://strawpoll.me/4532522 VOTE NOW!!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 15:44:46 2015 No.2447568 >>2447567 Don't really care. They can all be good.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 16:19:11 2015 No.2447610 >>2446959 I was, but then some weird thing happened to the game and now it won't stop holding auto-fire. Grr, I've tried just about everything to fix it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 16:37:20 2015 No.2447646 Which is more autistic: Treasure scoring or CAVE scoring?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 16:45:15 2015 No.2447661 What is the best arcade stick for playing shmups on PC?

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 17:19:18 2015 No.2447721

>>2446024
that's why you watch superplays or high-level replays with commentary.

if those streams did that, you'd have an argument (retro issue aside). but nearly all of them are just someone's credits of the day, which is just the usual pseudo-social twitch garbage.

and again, it isn't retro. talking about modern shmups occasionally in a retro shmup thread is one thing, but putting a list of almost entirely modern shmup streamers in an op is a giant fuck-you to /vr/. it's just planting your flag with blatant disregard for what the board is about.

if you want to recreate your /jp/ threads, take it back there or to /vg/ like another anon suggested. if those fail, tough shit. but if you want to talk shmups here, then just fucking talk shmups and leave your /jp/ garbage behind.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 18:41:48 2015 No.2447895

>>2447721
>that's why you watch superplays or high-level replays with commentary.
Those may be superior to streams, but they lack the realtime discussion aspect and also more streams mean they spread awareness of shmups to non-players which can boost interest to the more or less niche status it holds right now.

>if those streams did that, you'd have an argument (retro issue aside). but nearly all of them are just someone's credits of the day, which is just the usual pseudo-social twitch garbage.
So it's not even a /vr/ issue to you, it's because they're streams. Take your grudge with twitch out of the shmup thread because it has nothing to do with shmups.

>and again, it isn't retro
The non-2hu streams on that site play Cave/Raizing/Psikyo which are mostly pre-cutoff. Besides, shmup in itself is a retro genre that trascends release dates, like 2D beat 'em ups and platformers. That's why the janitors allow Crimzon Clover, G.Rev, M2 and such in these threads, because shmup is a classic style that time forgot. Also, who are you to dictate what /vr/ is really about? "Retro" is a vague term and can cover more things than just release dates. There are some things that are inherently retro, and shmups are one of them. You can't even name three aspects of a shmup released in the last decade that differ dramatically from shmups released in the '90s, because the genre has been refined and perfected to the point that anything "new" isn't all that different from what you would consider retro.

>if you want to recreate your /jp/ threads, take it back there or to /vg/ like another anon suggested. if those fail, tough shit. but if you want to talk shmups here, then just fucking talk shmups and leave your /jp/ garbage behind.
This isn't a recreation of /jp/'s STG thread, seeing as there's no discussion of 2hu to be seen. Not sure why you keep bringing up this irrelevant point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 18:43:42 2015 No.2447903 Rumor has it that Degica is getting ready to port Triangle Service's shmups to PC. Are your bodies ready for dat DeltaZeal?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 18:50:49 2015 No.2447920 File: 1018 KB, 337x253, 1354650076206.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw soon being able to 1cc game All goes according to plan :^)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 18:58:16 2015 No.2447942 >>2447920 What game? >tfw really close in Mushi 1 original mode. Made it to the final boss a few times

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 19:03:04 2015 No.2447959
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>>2447942
>What game?
Pic related. Made it to the last level for the first time today, twice. And the second time I even made some really dumb mistakes I usually don't do on the 3rd and 4th boss. And the last boss also doesn't look that hard if you know the right tactics.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 19:35:18 2015 No.2448019

>>2447895
>spread awareness
moving fenceposts, and bullshit. people in a shmups thread already have awareness about shmups. post it somewhere else if awareness is your goal.

>it's because they're streams
no, the circlejerk is just another bad thing about them. just because you don't like me calling them shit doesn't mean you suddenly have an argument. if anything, it just shows that you're just grasping at straws to defend something that has no place here.

>the genre has been refined and perfected to the point that anything "new" isn't all that different from what you would consider retro.
please. you know you're spewing bullshit now. look at old irem, konami and such and the like then look at modern cave, toho and such and tell me you don't see how hitbox size and bullet density alone make the gameplay vastly different.

and "perfected"? not only are you admitting that older shmups are different, you're also implying that we should largely ignore old ones and focus on the new, better ones. ignore the retro on a retro board. according to you, the only good retro is this idea of 'new retro' you're positing, which - guess what chief - isn't /vr/.

>there's no discussion of 2hu
no discussion, but there was shitposting. and your stream list is from /jp/, #kusoplay, and (to a lesser extent) motk. no one posts that but you. there already was a shmup thread, but no, you made a new one because you wanted your home away from home.

>who are you to dictate what /vr/ is really about?
me? i'm not the sticky.

honestly, i think most people don't care if you bring up modern shmups alongside old shmups, even if they aren't retro. but what isn't acceptable is posting stuff that's almost exclusively non-retro and thinking you can own /vr/'s shmup thread. fuck the existing thread and fuck the idea of retro.

no, fuck yourself and leave.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 19:40:14 2015 No.2448035 >>2448019 >tell me you don't see how hitbox size... You mean shit that was already happening in the mid 90s?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 19:54:19 2015 No.2448059 >>2448035 that was starting to happen, yes. batsugun plays a lot differently than sdoj.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:11:33 2015 No.2448078 How can people prefer this touhou stuff over games like Gradius? can someone explain this to me? I just don't get it...

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:20:52 2015 No.2448091

>>2448078
What's there not to get? Dodging bullets is fun. The more bullets there are, the better you feel when you dodge all of it. Smaller hitboxes help the games feel more fair and make you feel cooler when you dodge bullets. Also a lot of the games have interesting, addictive scoring systems. Plus older Gradius games are pretty slow paced, have very sudden difficulty spikes and have ships that either control too slow or too fast, never just right.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:26:10 2015 No.2448098

>>2448091
>Dodging bullets is fun
No, playing well made STGs is fun. Games like Gradius don't just have bullets to dodge, they have all kinds of obstacles to overcome and really smart level design. Just dodging slowly moving bullets is pretty boring, imo.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:31:48 2015 No.2448110

>>2448098
Bullet hell games tend to be very smartly designed, though. A lot of thought goes into the enemy placement and bullet patterns so that the levels present unique challenges along with having a nice sense of flow, not to mention the playtesting to make sure it all works well and is fair. Just because the great design choices are less obvious in those games doesn't mean they're not there.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:40:03 2015 No.2448126

>>2448110
Maybe, but I still find it kinda lack luster to just literally squeeze yourself through slow moving bullet patterns the whole time. These games often do not even have real backgrounds, for example, while in games like Gradius, you have all kinds of shit, from fire dragons growing out of sun balls comings after you, to tornadoes throwing whole mountains at you or whatever. It's just way more interesting, imo, no matter how old they are.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:47:04 2015 No.2448135

>>2448126
>but I still find it kinda lack luster to just literally squeeze yourself through slow moving bullet patterns the whole time

It sounds like you didn't even give the genre a chance. If you don't like that then don't play games that have you squeeze through slow moving bullets. Play Dangun Feveron which has lightning fast bullets, Ketsui which has a nice mix of slow and fast bullets, Giga Wing which has you reflecting enemy fire back at them or Alltynex Second which turns you into a windscreen wiper.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:50:59 2015 No.2448138

>>2448135
Not all bullethell games are like this, I know, but I was also talking about Touhou games specifically, since they are in the OP. There are many games like this, where all you have to do is basically just squeezing yourself through bullet patterns, and they are so popular nowadays compared to oldschool shmups which I find kinda weird.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:53:26 2015 No.2448142 >>2448078

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:55:46 2015 No.2448146

>>2448078
Do you really expect that a forum post will change your mind on something or are you just another anti-anime shitposter?
Anyway, check out the later Raiden Jet Fighters, Psykyo games or Mushihimesama on Ultra mode. They all have lightning fast bullets while still being relatively bullet hell-ish.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:56:06 2015 No.2448147 >>2448138 It's just something that's fun to do on a basic level. It's like playing a rhythm game, you just get into it and feel good while playing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 20:57:30 2015 No.2448148 >>2448138 >so popular nowadays Not anymore, the jap fanbase has moved on to boat sluts.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:00:53 2015 No.2448154

>>2448146
I was not asking for people to change my mind, I just wanted to see what people like about these games to play them more than oldschool shmups. I also have no problem with anime, I just don't really like all this cheap waifu trash.

>>2448147
Yea, rhythm games is really a good example, I think. I also get a similar vibe from these games. But still... It seems weird to me how people can prefer these games over oldschool shmups...

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:07:26 2015 No.2448168

>>2448154
I don't play gradius or r-type anymore without savestating after every level
I hate how if you die in a bad place you have no way of getting your speed ups back and are a sitting duck, pretty much forcing you the player to reset, and at the same time if you get too many speed ups your ship becomes uncontrollable so you might as well suicide and try again.
IMO r-type leo, blazing star and sexy parodius are much better games simply because they kept the amazing level design while ditching that ridiculous check point system. Fuck that design. But to each its own, I guess.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:08:47 2015 No.2448170

>>2448154
Old school shoot em ups are too stressful. There's way too much shit to take into consideration when playing. In Touhou you barely even have to pay attention to enemy and boss positions. Not that it's easy or anything, but it's less exhausting to play.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:09:42 2015 No.2448172 >>2448168 also inb4 someone calls me a casual, you can still play these games like your typical memorizer, you just have to reset after every death

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:10:45 2015 No.2448176 >>2448170 that's not even what makes touhou easy, it's the ridiculous amounts of bomb stocks and extends you get through the course of gameplay. Normally you get 8 extends in normal mode and even more in hard and lunatic.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:13:04 2015 No.2448181

>>2448168
I don't know so well about Gradius, but in R-Type you usually can recover from a death. It's just not easy.

>>2448170
Yea, that might be it. I don't have that much experience with these bullethell games, so I can't really tell how difficult or stressfull they are. But yea, oldschool shmups can be pretty stressfull.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:15:56 2015 No.2448185 >>2448154 >It seems weird to me how people can prefer these games over oldschool shmups. I know a lot of people, including myself, dislike environmental hazards. I just wanna worry about enemies and bullets, not walls and shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:16:16 2015 No.2448187 >>2448176 Does that apply to 6? I don't remember it having even half of that amount of extends.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:17:12 2015 No.2448191 File: 67 KB, 388x474, wtf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] what are the conditions that make this guy appear? I actually want to know so I can avoid it.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:20:20 2015 No.2448197

>>2448185
Me too, I like it when enemies interact with the levels but your ship doesn't. Makes it easier to memorize stuff.
Shikigami no shiro was pretty unique in that sense, usually the game has no collision with walls except for the 4th stage of every game that usually plays like a tetris maze hybrid with moving destructible and indestructible blocks.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:21:21 2015 No.2448202 >>2448185 But why? Does it make the game too difficult for you? I find this what makes shmups really good and immersive when they have cool environmental designs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:23:34 2015 No.2448205 >>2448202 It makes it feel less focused on bullet dodging, which is what I play the games for.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:23:37 2015 No.2448206

>>2448202
not the guy you're quoting but look at the last stage of deathsmiles for example, it's really hard to tell what's a solid wall from what's a background sprite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcOTli34D4
Even after you have the stage memorized you still sometimes mess it up because of the stupid background.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:27:22 2015 No.2448218

>>2448206
>it's really hard to tell what's a solid wall from what's a background sprite
This happens, but then it's the devs fault and not the concepts fault. You also can have games where you can't see bullets well enough (Battle Garegga has this for example, imo), but this doesn't mean bullets should be banned in shmups.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:27:32 2015 No.2448223 >>2448206 wait, never mind seems like the entire stage is pass-through except for the statues and chandeliers. I didn't even notice that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:28:56 2015 No.2448226 >>2448218 >battle garegga It's only hard to see on a lcd with warm colors, if you crank up the saturation it doesn't look that bad.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:29:56 2015 No.2448228 >>2448218 Battle Greggor is overrated, go play bakraid, batrider, ibara.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:30:18 2015 No.2448231 >>2448205 Yea, I think there really should be a different genre, called dodge em ups, because I play shmups for totally different reasons.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:33:53 2015 No.2448239 >>2448231 We already call them manic shooters or bullet hell. By the way have you ever tried Guwange? It does a mix of level design where both you and the enemies can cover themselves behind walls and bullet hell patterns.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:35:39 2015 No.2448243 >>2448239 >Guwange I played for like 15 minutes, but I still have too many other shmups to play which I prefer much more

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:37:06 2015 No.2448245

>>2448168
>>2448181
You can usually recover in Gradius if you know exactly what to do at each checkpoint. Even if you die in the last stage of Gradius 1, you can at least make it to the next checkpoint if you learn a route through it. It becomes more memo-heavy, and sometimes you have to kill enemies in a specific order to survive. You might still die, but if you have enough lives you'll still make it through to the end. As long as you hit the next checkpoint, you're not stuck.

But if you die in the later stages of the NES version, you're pretty much fucked.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:40:44 2015 No.2448251

>>2448245
I saw some guy attempt a recover run of some gradius games on youtube, the rules stated that he had to go all the way to the boss of a stage, die, and defeat the boss with your default pea shooter. It seemed surprisingly manageable, also helps that when you die the rank diminishes by a lot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:41:44 2015 No.2448252 >>2448243 Not much else I can say to you, then. We must agree to disagree.

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 21:44:02 2015 No.2448257

>>2448252
Yea, to each their own. Guwange is cool though. It definitely striked me a bit. It had a really interesting design and cool graphics. But still, I find games like Gradius more immersive, which is probably why I prefer them more. They make more sense to me and are more believable.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 22:25:05 2015 No.2448309 File: 6 KB, 410x59, star_parodier_score.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Post you're Star Parodier scores

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 22:48:48 2015 No.2448363 >>2448218 They released a type 2 of Garegga that has bright orange bullets. The mode is also included on the saturn version. >>2448228 All of them are excellent games, but I prefer Garegga for its soundtrack and aesthetic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 23:27:25 2015 No.2448408 Post your shmupfu

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 23:37:25 2015 No.2448429 >>2448408 fuck off, weeb

Anonymous Wed Jun 3 23:52:36 2015 No.2448450

I can't credit feed. I can't make myself practice individual stages, either. It's one credit or ultimate death. That's why I'll probably never 1cc an STG. I'm pretty upset at myself for being that way. I can't help but feel that it would be extremely anti-climactic to see the final boss of a game without having reached them legitimately. I think I would not have a reason to play the game anymore at all.

How do you guys handle this credits business? I get the impression most STG players practice using continues, save states, or stage select. Though I've read some Japanese don't feed, even though there are interviews with world record holders that have them say otherwise. It makes a lot of sense, to go about it that way. I read a fitting analogy the other day, about how mastery is achieved in learning to play a song, in that, a person practices different parts and puts them together, as opposed to constantly starting from the beginning, because that's totally counter-productive. What makes a video game so different then, I wonder?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 23:55:24 2015 No.2448456 >>2448450 spoiler: it's always hibachi at the end

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 3 23:57:24 2015 No.2448459 >>2448450 Fuck what's productive, do what's more fun TO YOU.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:00:12 2015 No.2448465

>>2448450
I save state at the very beginning and limit myself to only using 1 life and 1 bomb per stage. I don't move on to the next one until I can get through the stage and boss with those restrictions. Occasionally I make smaller save states to practice the bosses/difficult parts individually. It's very rewarding to play like that. Makes it feel like you're moving forward at a rapid pace without removing too much of the struggle and tension.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:20:47 2015 No.2448484 >>2445150 is there a working upload of Raptor for DOS? the one I got from a torrent is fucked. GOG is too easy mode and provides no challenge to get the game running.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:27:42 2015 No.2448492 >>2448450 >credit feed >hit reset once you real the last boss That hard huh?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:28:43 2015 No.2448494 >>2448492 >real *reach

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:30:02 2015 No.2448497

>>2448450
I use stage practice when it's available. In MAME I just play one credit right now, because I was told credit feeding is the devil.

A lot of people say that playing 1 run 1 credit is how you should approach the difficulty curve of your game - if you can't get past stage 3 on one credit, you're sure as fuck not ready for stage 4, and you're just going to die more and more as you credit feed without really improving your skills.
On the other hand, gaining familiarity with the stages is just as important. If you only ever use one credit you're just going to get immediately fucked by whatever's waiting for you every time you make it further through the game.

It's probably better to do a mix of both. I personally feel like using save states is something that should be reserved for practicing scoring tricks. If you're just going for a clear, it feels like cheating to me, since you're circumventing the standard learning process for the game that you'd have to go through in arcade conditions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:30:21 2015 No.2448501 File: 184 KB, 798x700, tgl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2448408

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:32:08 2015 No.2448504 File: 114 KB, 648x782, Axelay1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2448408

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:43:21 2015 No.2448520

>>2448450
some ideas:
>don't save, use invincibility cheat, bomb as if you were playing normally
>console port style: start with 4 credits and each time you beat the game decrease remaining credits by 1 until you have an 1cc
>1-up style: give yourself an extra credit for every stage you beat. You should get up to 5 or 6 credits per run but only if you can beat every level
>ikaruga style: unlock 1 extra credit for each hour of playthrough. You shouldn't need more than 6 or 7. MameUI keeps track of this for you
>hydorah style: you are allowed to save state up to 3 times per run. You can load as many times as you want but can only save 3 times. Use a different slot for each save if you want. If you need more save states, just start over.
>stage select style: save every time you reach the stage results screen. If you enable cheats, you might also consider restocking your bombs and power right before saving. Reload until you beat the level in one life
>check point style: save right before you fight a midboss or boss. Once you have the fight perfected, try beating both the stage + boss in one sitting. Use cheats to restock your bombs if you want
>segmented run: perfect the first 2 or 3 levels. Once you do, put a save state in there, now you can jump straight to the more trickier parts of the game
>score attack: save state before every level and insert 1 credit every time you beat your personal best score. You can also insert a credit every time you reach 25%, 50% and 75% of your best. This should keep you wanting to improve earlier stages so you can milk the no miss bonuses.
>score attack variant: same as above, every time you beat or come close to beating your personal best, give yourself a credit. You can also give yourself a credit every time you reach the default extend value on the board, every time you reach 1 million, or whatever

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:44:08 2015 No.2448523

>>2448459
I'm trying to develop a sense of distance from others' views. Not quite there yet. One day I will go forth with confidence knowing what I want and enjoy it.

>>2448492
That's not quite the point. I feel like it would cheapen the experience. I don't really care about beating the game so much as progressing and through and getting better at the game. Seeing the new areas, hearing the new music, and knowing that I got there through my efforts. It all turns meaningless if I am not put through some sort of risk-laden trial to get there. I think that is why death is a thing in general, because otherwise, everything would be taken for granted and nobody would try their absolute best in life.

Plus, I think the one credit thing is pretty romantic. Someone clutches a single coin, and that is their only lifeline during their foray into an impossible storm of unrelenting enemy fire.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:48:30 2015 No.2448530 remember you can also record movies or take screenshots of the places you died, for later reference so you can practice your weak spots

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:51:03 2015 No.2448532 >>2448523 Good for you, I already spoiled the soundtracks to all of these games so I can't relate. Don't expect much from the endings, though, most stgs don't have one or are entirely in japanese.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 00:55:38 2015 No.2448537

>>2448520
I like Ikaruga/RSG style quite a lot, since it's not so hopeless knowing that continues will be given in time. Meanwhile, the player gets better with every hour, and the two meet at a sweet point. This is why I don't mind using continues in those two games. That and because I am a Treasure fanboy and want to keep playing without feeling the strain of immense repetition to the point of hating the games.

The problem is that, self-imposed challenges are hard to initiate, psychologically, if they are not present in the game as an actuality. So RSG and Ikaruga have these neat systems, but other STGs kind of leave a player to do what they want. But how is a game supposed to be played, really? That's too much of a burden on the player, I think.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 01:01:27 2015 No.2448547 >>2448537 Just remember you can only put credits on the title screen. Or map the coin key to some combination that requires both hands like Ctrl + Alt + 5. Nothing that you can't do without some self control.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 01:12:46 2015 No.2448553

>>2448547
The problem is not along the lines of being unable to withhold oneself from tapping the coin button many times, but the overwhelming strain on a player when they aren't given limitations within the game itself, as a mechanic. So it turns shmups into a sandbox? The appeal of a sandbox game is much different than that of a shmup, so I cannot see how that would work. If continues are a mechanic, then a player cannot lose. So a player has to make up their own rules, but those aren't defined by the game... so how does one know if they are playing correctly? Where does the feeling of accomplishment come from, if they aren't following the rules?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 01:15:26 2015 No.2448559 >>2448553 Pinball finals, dude. You are not competing with someone, you are competing with your own best score.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 01:22:42 2015 No.2448567 File: 22 KB, 240x320, dogyuun score.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] did I do good /rsg/

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 01:36:26 2015 No.2448579 File: 135 KB, 1024x1024, k_raiden_snap.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2448408 I was going to toss in Reimu Hakurei but I actually prefer the ship from Raiden Trad on Sega Genesis.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:00:50 2015 No.2448771

>>2448450
Protip: If a shmup becomes anti-climatic when you credit feed, then it's not you who is the problem, but the shmup which is the problem.

Good shmups like Gradius, or R-Type games (even the japanese version of Leo), they stay intense even when you credit feed, because they are punishing enough when you die. If the game doesn't really punish you when you die, then it's just bad game design and too easy.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:15:40 2015 No.2448785

>>2448771
Most Gradiuses don't let you continue though.

The international version called Nemesis did, and it also dropped a shitload of powerups after you died, but the enemies are more aggressive. I think World version of 3 lets you continue as well, and you keep some of your powerups after you die.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:18:39 2015 No.2448791 >>2448785 >Most Gradiuses don't let you continue though. Really? I could use continues in every Gradius game I played so far. But they are so punishing, that you hardly want to use credits anyway, because it just becomes too hard.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:28:02 2015 No.2448803 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRhFYV4-pBQ go play it

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:30:34 2015 No.2448808 >>2448803 >better view to the sites instead of front of ship I really dislike designs like this. It makes no sense to me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:43:09 2015 No.2448823 >>2448771 The punishment is losing money. Adding a loss of progress into the mix is excessive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:43:51 2015 No.2448824 File: 99 KB, 282x475, SilpheedSegaCD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Do you guys like Silpheed? [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu0XBR12ff4[/video]

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:49:01 2015 No.2448826

>>2448823
But if the gameplay doesn't punish you, then it's just like p2w bullshit. Every credit you spend just makes you feel like you are cheating instead of legitimately progressing through the game.

Many shmups even give you more power-ups when you use credits than you had before, which is just dull and boring.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:53:25 2015 No.2448831 >>2448824 The graphics for this game were the bomb back in the days, imo. The gameplay is also ok, but could be better.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:58:03 2015 No.2448841
File: 91 KB, 616x600, silpheed-box_megacd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2448824

god damn I fucked up with those video tags.

>>2448831

yeah gameplay feels like a vertical Gradius but it could be better, bosses were kind of disappointing but the levels were good. Worth playing.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 04:59:16 2015 No.2448846

Just went back to play the Nemesis version of Gradius in MAME, and holy shit, every enemy in the game is now on fucking crack. At least recovering is really easy now. I died like 10 times and with all the powerups they dump on you, keeping the game moving forward is really easy.

The rank seems WAY more exaggerated in this version. If you die, all the bullets start moving like molasses, and if you survive for a while they just shoot across the screen like, well, bullets.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 05:39:08 2015 No.2448892

>>2448826
It's ridiculous to complain about shmups being too forgiving when you credit feed because spending money due to your lack of skill is a punishment in itself. Credit feeding in MAME is looked down upon, on the other hand. You also don't really "win" when you use a lot of credits. You may get through the game but that means fuck all when your overall score can barely reach a good player's first stage score.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 05:53:40 2015 No.2448912

>>2448892
It's not just being to forgiving when you credit feed, but also just too forgiving when you die. And just because you have to spend money to use credits, doesn't mean that this justifies not punishing the player also in the gameplay. Punishing gameplay, imo, is a part of good gameplay. If a game is not punishing enough, I find it boring, and unimmersive. Spending money for credits is not really part of the gameplay, but just rather part of the arcade business.

>You also don't really "win" when you use a lot of credits.
Of course you can win like this. You win the game when you play through it and not when you do a highscore or whatever. Using your logic you wouldn't win the game even when you 1LC it, because many shmups let you squeeze the game by intentional deaths and dying basically can increase your scoring. You would basically only be able to win if you have the absolute high score, which is just retarded. I really don't play for highscores mainly, I mainly play to survive. Scores are just a neat thing on the site.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 06:16:01 2015 No.2448935

>>2448892
Punishing deaths like in R-Type are better, because even when you die in these games, and use credits, you still need skills to complete them. Shmups where you just can credit feed and don't get punished apart from spending money are games which anyone can play through. But punishing games like Gradius punish you just enough that you don't even want to use credits. You can use them, and if you manage to recover, it still feels like an achievement, but it is so hard to recover, that you mostly don't even want to use them, but just rather start from scratch. Which is, imo, much cooler and more immersive. It makes playing through these games feel even better, because you know only the really skilled ones saw the ending.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 07:26:18 2015 No.2449027 >>2448912 Considering that a lot of games not only have true final bosses but second loops, you sure as fuck don't win by a simple credit feeding clear.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 07:56:13 2015 No.2449059

>>2448935
>But punishing games like Gradius punish you just enough that you don't even want to use credits. You can use them, and if you manage to recover, it still feels like an achievement, but it is so hard to recover, that you mostly don't even want to use them, but just rather start from scratch.
That's actually a pretty neat work-around. Though, probably not intentional, assuming that money was most important.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 09:06:58 2015 No.2449142 http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?uk=1359236049&shareid=1411522265 shooting gameside

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 09:56:25 2015 No.2449205 >>2449059 I think it definitely was intentional. They just didn't care about making money, but just making making good games, how it should be. Just because the game would be easier to playthrough, wouldn't mean you made better money with it.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 10:02:00 2015 No.2449214

>>2449027
R-Type is punishing hard enough that it easily would count as a win. You also get a 1cc even if you don't do every loop. Do you mean you have to do 255 loops in Gradius to truely beat it or what? No, you beat it if you play through it, no matter how many credits you use. Same goes for every other shmup. It's just that most shmups are not balanced as well as these games, which makes credit feeding them feel weak.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 12:13:45 2015 No.2449359

>>2449214
You're trying to apply the design philosophies of older shmups to the entire genre when the focus of modern games have changed. I do agree with you that benefiting from dying is bad game design (though I think dying to lower your rank in some games like Garegga is more of an interesting gimmick), most modern shmups are made with score in mind, and because of that they have different goals and conditions to make the game feel "complete". Many of them lock their second loops out from credit feeders to punish them, since the second loop is the "true" version of the game.
Let me put it this way. Back in the day when shmups were still popular in Japan, there would be lines to play them, and when it was your turn to go you could only use one quarter to try and beat the game. That's how credit feeding became looked down upon in general and why shmup series started designing themselves around the 1cc. It's just a totally different style from what earlier series did.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 12:21:46 2015 No.2449371 >>2448935 Checkpoint shooters are disgusting, also nobody will ever take you seriously if you credit-feed an STG.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 12:45:53 2015 No.2449415 siter skain shmups are on sale on steam, go buy them now http://store.steampowered.com/app/281860/

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 12:55:27 2015 No.2449439

>>2449359
Actually, after thinking some more about the concept of giving the player powerups upon death, it's not really that bad of a problem. Powerups are far less important in most bullet hell shooters than they were in old school shooters. The difference between having no powerups and max powerups in Gradius is enormous, to the point where losing them drastically alters the game, whereas in something like Dodonpachi the powerups are more of an eventuality, and only make dispatching enemies faster. Of course, that's pretty important in a game like DDP, but losing them isn't nearly as important as losing one of your few, coveted lives. I believe the reason most bullet hells give you max power upon death is that they're just trying to bring you back to where you were in terms of power, since it's not especially difficult to get to max power in the first place. The penalty of losing a life is great enough.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 14:26:44 2015 No.2449575 What's a good price for Power Strike 2 on the SMS that is CIB? Not selling, buying.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 18:39:34 2015 No.2450037

>>2449359
>You're trying to apply the design philosophies of older shmups to the entire genre when the focus of modern games have changed
No, I'm just taking the pioneers of the genre as examples how it should be balanced. The focus hasn't really changed, Gradius loops also only come when you 1cc it and it also was made with score in my mind, but most shmups are just not balanced as well as this game. That's why it feels dumb to credit feed them, while Gradius or R-Type still stay exciting, because the difficulty turns into a total clusterfuck when you try to recover there.

You basically could play through them and constantly credit feed, and it would be something like playing an IWTG game or similar, where it's just total trial and error, and it still would feel good to complete them. And you complete them when playing through them, no matter with how many credits. If the game gives you a second loop or whatever doesn't really matter, that's just a bonus on the top but not the actual main game. When I 1cc Gradius I also still will be able to say I 1cced it, no matter if I made it to loop 255 or only the second one.

If other games make the play through feel shallow when using credits, then that's a problem with the game, not the way how you play the game. Good games should be punishing but rewarding, and if a game fails to deliver this design, then that's the games fault.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 18:49:24 2015 No.2450054

>>2449439
The reason these games give you power-ups back upon death is simply because they are poorly balanced and have rather shallow gameplay compared to games like R-Type. In R-Type it makes a huge difference if you have two bits and the DNA shot or not, because the gameplay is deep enough to reward the player. In most bullethell games it all doesn't really matter much because these games are rather shallow. They do not reward the player and therefor also do not really punish them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 18:52:09 2015 No.2450057 >>2450054 Please don't talk about something you know absolutely nothing about.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 18:52:44 2015 No.2450058

>>2450037
No, you are definitely judging modern shooters by arbitrary standards that you've gained from playing older games, even though they're just different approaches.
The way you play Gradius and Dodonpachi are entirely different. In Gradius you're focused on gaining powerups, and once you've got yourself fully decked out you just sort of coast by on their power until you get hit, causing you to scramble them back together. In Dodonpachi and other similar games, your power pickups don't change your abilities that much, as I explained in >>2449439 . The core of the game is simply dodging bullets and trying to chain together kills for score.
In Gradius, some areas that are a complete breeze will full upgrades can suddenly be extremely difficult if you screw up and get hit. In DDP, the difficulty is much more consistent, and any challenges you're faced with are difficult because they require a certain level of skill to execute, not because you don't have full powerup.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 18:58:15 2015 No.2450060

>>2450037
Also, there's a huge difference between the extra loops in Gradius and the second loop in DDP and other bullet hells. Gradius games just let you go for as long as you can, in the same way something like Pac Man can keep being played until you finally run out of lives. The second loop in DDP is just an extension of the first game, and in many ways the first loop is just training for the true second loop that allows you to fight the TFB.

>>2450054
What makes the difference of loosing powerups significant enough in DDP to consider its exclusion a major failure in game design? How does that make it shallow? The game is about bullet dodging and chaining, and that's where its depth lies. It's completely different from R-Type.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:00:19 2015 No.2450063

>>2450058
>No, you are definitely judging modern shooters by arbitrary standards that you've gained from playing older games
Games like Gradius V or R-Type Final are much younger than Dodonpachi or whatever. It's not about how old these games are, but just about how well they are put together and how well balanced they are.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:02:14 2015 No.2450065 >>2450063 No, it's about being a completely different style of game. Gradius V and R-Type Final play completely differently from bullet hells, and thus are designed in a different way.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:05:46 2015 No.2450072

>>2450060
>How does that make it shallow?
It makes it shallow because the gameplay does not really change much and is not rewarding enough. Without reward there also is no punishmenet of course. Instead it all just always almost stays the same and is rather kept simple and very basic.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:09:45 2015 No.2450074

>>2450072
Why does changing the game on the level of completely neutering your ship automatically better than changing the game by introducing new patterns and enemies?
Why does giving you punishment on the level of making you nearly incapable of recovery the only worthwhile punishment for death?
Why are your standards so warped that you can't appreciate a game for what it does and not for what it doesn't?

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:10:43 2015 No.2450076

>>2450065
Yes, they play a lot better because they are balanced much better and are more sophisticated. They are very punishing but also rewarding. In bullethells you can keep your power-ups because it all doesn't really matter much anyway. That's because these power-ups do not really change much because the gameplay is rather shallow. Either this or the games are just casualized to attract a wider audience.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:14:00 2015 No.2450082

>>2450076
>are more sophisticated
For simpletons, yeah. The depth and intricacy in bullet hell shoot em ups isn't plainly obvious like the levels and power ups in old school shoot em ups, so that leads to people like you thinking they're shallow. Think of it as a retard filter.

Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:17:12 2015 No.2450084

>>2450076
They are not more sophisticated, just different. The powerups don't matter much because the focus is on bullet dodging at its essence, with nothing else to get in the way. It's just a different approach to game design.
The depth in bullet hells generally come from the complex scoring mechanisms that the games are designed around. That's what makes them so different from games of the past, they're made to score, and that's where most of the fun of playing them comes from.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:23:27 2015 No.2450092 what does /rsg/ think about Final Star Force? It's the only SHMUP I know to have music for each power-up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRwvBRIek5s

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 4 19:32:25 2015 No.2450103 >>2450072 Both Gradius and DDP methods are crap. Shmups need to use Silvergun or Mars Matrix's mechanics where the better you score, the more powerful your ship grows.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 00:11:13 2015 No.2450595 >>2445414 Bought it with my own $$$ when it came out on Saturn yo. Made dad sit and watch me play tho.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:10:54 2015 No.2450958 >>2447903 >Are your bodies ready for dat DeltaZeal? Yup coming out later today, see you on the scoreboards.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:15:15 2015 No.2450960

>>2448172
But you are a pleb casual because aside from spots in Gradius 3 arcade and 2s last stage it isnt even true. Gradius gaiden you can comeback at any point in the game if you arn't shit and gradius 4 has a rank system and great balance also for coming back after a death, just play more make less excuses and practice those recoveries. I really hope you arn't talking about gradius 3 snes? that game is the easiest in the entire gradius series and very very easy to recover from a death in the first loop at least.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:16:57 2015 No.2450961 >>2448185 Oh you're a pleb i get it. You want the illusion of being good without actually being good, i bet you fluke dodge in danmaku most of the time.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:20:12 2015 No.2450969

>>2448450
Completely ass tarded perspective, if you think the joy of a game is seeing a final boss and in any way diminishes what it's actually like to get a perfect run through a game i have news for you, it doesn't. Who the fuck is playing stgs just to see a boss or whatever?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:25:02 2015 No.2450973 >>2448912 >I really don't play for highscores mainly, I mainly play to survive. Scores are just a neat thing on the site. Every excuse ever from lazy players who fear the real challenge.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:25:06 2015 No.2450974 >>2445150 last time i played a shmup was when i was 10 and i played for 15mins because it was too hard for my child brain. what's the best game that you guys can recommend me?

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:30:18 2015 No.2450982

>>2450060
As someone who plays Gradius games and bullet hells to a level im willing to guarantee is far higher than you (G3 is the only one in series i haven't 1 credited) i really think you need to stfu as you're talking biased bullshit. Real shmup fans play and appreciate every type of shooter and not this tiring retard shit you're spewing which literally boils down to "im an old cunt that's moderately good at old horis and total shit at anything else therefore it's because everything else is shit."

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:37:31 2015 No.2450990 >>2450974 Dragon Spirit, Slap Fight, MUSHA, Raiden.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 04:39:31 2015 No.2450992 >>2448579 Your red/white fetish remains.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 05:59:12 2015 No.2451041 >>2450982 You replied to the wrong person.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 06:29:55 2015 No.2451069 >>2450974 Dodonpachi, Giga Wing, RayForce and Gradius V. They're all pretty different so you're bound to like at least a couple.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 06:57:52 2015 No.2451097 File: 33 KB, 250x220, 250px-35009-22800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Has anybody played Novastorm by Psygnosis? never played anything in this style unless Knife Edge Nose Gunner counts.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 09:18:48 2015 No.2451268

As someone relatively new to shmups, how exactly am I supposed to think about scoring?
I don't think there's much fun in just trying to copy someone else's run, but that seems like what you have to do to get big numbers, especially with the more complicated scoring systems. But in the end you're just copying other people. But if you don't your score will be shit.
I really don't know what to think, this is like a paradox to me. Is the sense of satisfaction from scoring solely based on how well you can execute what you've seen other people do?

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 10:15:49 2015 No.2451328

>>2451268
It depends on whether or not you want WR level scoring, because if so you're probably going to have to start copying high scoring runs if you want to reach competitive levels in your lifetime.
If not, that's not really necessary. You just need to understand the basics of whatever scoring mechanism your game uses and practice them. It's still useful to use superplay videos to find out strategies for certain areas when you're stuck, though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 10:19:54 2015 No.2451331 >>2451069 I downloaded Darius Gaiden and it's pretty cool so far.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 10:27:23 2015 No.2451340

>>2450973
No, scoring is just mostly way too unimmersive and stupidly implemented. I find it dumb to die on purpose just to get a better score. I rather like to strife for dying as little as I can. The scoring system in many shmups is just retarded and make no sense to me. In The Hunt for example lets you get a better score the more you wait at spots where lots of enemies infinitely respawn. That game is great, but playing it this way is just stupid and boring. RSG also would be much better without this unlogical chaining system. Shit like this just ruins the immersion to me because it makes no fucking sense.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 10:51:06 2015 No.2451381

>>2451340
>I find it dumb to die on purpose just to get a better score.
This is rarely useful in shmups, and when it is it's never to get a higher score, it's to lower rank or gain more resources to survive.

Anyways, there are a lot of different types of scoring in shmups, and some are more interesting and well implemented than others. A lot of the best shmups have scoring systems that make the game more interesting to play, like Ketsui's, where you must get as close to possible to an enemy when you defeat it to start a chain, increasing the game's risk vs reward aspect.
You just have to play lots of shmups until you find one that has scoring suited to yourself.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 11:36:40 2015 No.2451451

>>2451381
>This is rarely useful in shmups
Not in the shmups I play. Almost every shmup I prefer has this that you get more scores when you squeeze the game by dying on purpose. Image Fight has this, R-Type games, Gradius, X-Multiply, In The Hunt, Gallop, etc etc. These are my favorite shmups and they all have this.

Games like Ketsui are not really my cup of tea. Not because I am a "lazy player" or whatever, but just because I find these games rather boring and ugly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 11:38:25 2015 No.2451456 >>2451451 Also Darius games have this too.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 11:50:13 2015 No.2451464 >>2451451 Ah, I wasn't aware sincce I'm not as familiar with advanced scoring in older games.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 11:54:50 2015 No.2451468

>>2451464
Yea, I prefer more the oldschool type of shmups, because I find them more immersive. Newschool shmups can also be fun, and they may be better suited for scoring, but I still have too much to learn in the listed games, that's why I never really played much Cave shmups or whatever. They can be fun too, but I just prefer oldschool shmups and they are not so much about scoring, but more just about surviving, which I personally find cooler because it is more immersive and makes more sense to me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 12:45:54 2015 No.2451520 >>2447661 a working one

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 13:55:46 2015 No.2451637

>>2451340
Good shmups will have timeouts so you can't milk at a spot forever.

Also Silvergun's scoring isn't bad per se, it's just that you can't play the game for survival because the game gets too hard otherwise.

If they ever port it to Steam they should patch in a boss rush mode with customizable weapon levels.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 14:15:36 2015 No.2451657

>>2451637
>Good shmups will have timeouts so you can't milk at a spot forever.
In The Hunt also has timeouts, but it's just boring to play like this. I just don't like shmups which are aimed towards scoring as much as shmups which are more aimed towards survival. I just find them unimmersive and they make little sense to me. They make me feel like I was playing some dumb rhythm game, with all the candy clutter falling from the sky and enemy spam there, while games like R-Type rather make me much more feel like I was really sitting in a space ship just trying to survive.

And no, I don't like RSGs scoring system. Just simply because it makes no sense to me, and it feels dumb to intentionally letting enemies live just to get a better score. It's just unimmersive and unlogical.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 14:32:15 2015 No.2451670

>>2451657
>I just find them unimmersive and they make little sense to me
>while games like R-Type rather make me much more feel like I was really sitting in a space ship just trying to survive.
>It's just unimmersive and unlogical.
Must be a troll or an autistic person.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 14:40:16 2015 No.2451691

>>2451670
I fail to see what is your problem here? Nothing wrong with liking rhythm games, they also can be challenging as hell, but it's just not my cup of tea. I like my games rather immersive and not having the screen full of shit like constantly stars or whatever falling from the sky so you can get a better score.

In scoring aimed shmups, the enemy placement is also just always way too much out of the ass. They spam enemies at you like shit, while games like R-Type have a much more thoughtful enemy placement, which to me makes more sense and just feels better.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 14:52:18 2015 No.2451706

>>2451657
A lot of people dislike that about Silvergun/Ikaruga, and it's an atypical scoring system anyways. Hence why they call them "puzzle games" because you have to kill enemies in a specific color order so as to score well. But most shmups don't have such a silly scoring system as Treasure's. Even DDP's chaining lets you kill everything you see on screen without it hurting your score.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 14:58:16 2015 No.2451713

>>2451706
>most shmups don't have such a silly scoring system
It also was just an example, but I don't find most others much better. Ketsuis system where you have to get as close as possible is also dumb to me. Just like constant candy clutter falling from the sky is dumb. I don't need this unimmersive unlogical shit.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:05:54 2015 No.2451725

>>2451713
You don't NEED to score though. If you just want to play pure survival in games like Ketsui you can. The scoring system is just there for people who have mastered the survival aspect of the game and want a new challenge.

I think where I would draw the line are games where the enemies are placed in a very specific order where you need to kill them in the exact order and timings the developer wants you to. (such as ikaruga), or if the scoring system makes you invincible for much of the time. I think scoring systems which make survival play still relevant and allow for player freedom in movement whilst still being demanding are the best kind.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:17:31 2015 No.2451745 >>2451713 >I don't need this unimmersive unlogical shit. And you aren't good enough to deal with it anyway.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:17:40 2015 No.2451747

>>2451725

Not the anon you're responding to but I just wanted to say this.

>I think scoring systems which make survival play still relevant and allow for player freedom in movement whilst still being demanding are the best kind.

If a person is seriously playing for score, then that person will be following the same route every time and he will try to do the same things each time regardless of how much freedom in movement the game provides. Freely moving as a player is a death sentence unless it's an easy game. This is because moving as you please invites more randomness and your scoring+surviving shall become more inconsistent because of it.

Freedom of movement is only practical when the player isn't serious about scoring or he just wants to survive.

Feel free to to give me your perspective if I just went full retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:19:07 2015 No.2451748 >>2451340 >I find it dumb to die on purpose just to get a better score. You mean you can't handle the concept of strategic depth in a game?

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:21:08 2015 No.2451753

>>2451268
No because no matter how many times you watch a WR run you won't be able to replicate it which will lead you to finding your own limits and strategies that balance survival and scoring, as you improve this balance changes your score gets higher, your risks greater and that's all reflected in the score you achieve.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:32:25 2015 No.2451774 >>2451713 >I don't need this unimmersive unlogical shit. Dude, you're playing shooting games where tiny ships shoot multidirectional lasers at invading monsters. Why are you looking for logic?

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:35:28 2015 No.2451781

>>2451725
>You don't NEED to score though
No shit... I also was just repsonding to people here calling me lazy and weak for just playing for survival. I just find playing for score dumb and retarded, but sadly thats how most modern shmups are build. If I want a new challenge then I try to get to another loop, but not try to collect more candy clutter falling from the sky or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:37:43 2015 No.2451784 >>2451774 >tiny ships shoot multidirectional lasers at invading monsters I fail to see what should be unimmersive about this. You can't excuse every fuck up a dev makes with "but hurr it's just sci-fi anyway".

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 15:39:44 2015 No.2451790 R-Type fan just wants to play tee-ball, guys. Go easy on him.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 18:35:46 2015 No.2452028

>>2448091
>Gradius
>Pretty slow-paced

Have you ever played a Gradius ?Anon, I love manic shooters, including touhou (even if I hate magical girls). Yes, they're intense. But not Gradius-level intense. Bullet hells just require you to be able to dodge shit. Gradius requires you to be able to maneuver the Vic Viper ultra precisely while blasting shit that comes in front, above you, and beneath you, which means that you have to aim with the missiles. Not to mention that you have to cleverly build your arsenal and pay attention to the landscape, while doing all the stuff written above. Which is way more complicated than any 2hu.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 18:42:06 2015 No.2452040 >>2448408 Go back to /a/ you weeaboo faggot

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 19:37:48 2015 No.2452190

>>2448078
Because Gradius III arcade tears me a new asshole unlike any shoot-em-up I have ever played. I can at least get to stage one on most games on my first time and eventually get to stage three without way too much trouble, but damn Gradius III just pushes my shit in and doesn't relent.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 20:09:43 2015 No.2452262 >>2448091 >. Plus older Gradius games are pretty slow paced, have very sudden difficulty spikes and have ships that either control too slow or too fast, never just right. Behave yourself.

Anonymous Fri Jun 5 20:14:00 2015 No.2452276

>>2452190
Gradius fanboy here with 4 and gaiden being my faves (can loop both) but half of 3 being so hard is down to terribly inaccurate hitbox programming. When the moai boss head expand the hit box is a massive rectangle just slapped on top of the sprite that's barely half the size.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 20:14:36 2015 No.2452281 >>2452028 The worst thing about 2hu is 99% of the level design outside of bosses is just blank screen + background + popcorn.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 5 22:06:48 2015 No.2452468 >>2452281 The bullets are the level design, unless you think floors/walls/ceilings can only be level design.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 01:08:13 2015 No.2452683

>>2452281
Do you honestly think that littering the level with big, static hitboxes is somehow difficult to do or makes the games better? The Touhou games focus on dodging/grazing bullets, killing enemies and optimizing your scores. Adding hazards would detract from that focus by making movement less intuitive. And for games that can already be quite excessive and overwhelming that's the last thing you need.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 01:48:01 2015 No.2452725

>>2452683
>Do you honestly think that littering the level with big, static hitboxes is somehow difficult to do or makes the games better?
Not him, but yes, ths is difficult to do and makes the games better. Are you seriously trying to imply that lovingly crafted backgrounds and obstacles wouldn't require immense work? Just using bullets as your "level design" is wayyy easier to make.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 01:50:24 2015 No.2452730 I like old and new-school shmups. I don't get the fighting. They're just different, yo.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 01:51:42 2015 No.2452734

>>2452725
Bullet hell games have plenty of lovingly crafted backgrounds. The only thing that's difficult to make about obstacles is the art, which wouldn't be a problem considering how bad the art in Touhou is. And how would that improve the gameplay? Nobody plays Touhou for the pretty art, they play them for the mechanics. Obstacles detract from those mechanics, so the game would be worse off with them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 01:55:51 2015 No.2452741 >>2452730 Pretty much this. Each offers something different. Retro shooters make you feel underpowered, modern bullet hells make you feel like a bullet dodging god.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 02:24:54 2015 No.2452789

>>2452734
>Bullet hell games have plenty of lovingly crafted backgrounds.
Sure, but you were talking about touhou here.
>The only thing that's difficult to make about obstacles is the art
Not really... If you had ever played a game like R-Type, you'd know how painstakingly orchestrated the level design sometimes can be. This is much more difficult to make than just creating new bullet patterns for every level. Or take RSG for example. The level design there plays a huge role in the difficulty curve and this curve is incredibly tightly balanced in these games, which takes much more to take into consideration than if you had just bullets as your level design the whole time.

>Nobody plays Touhou for the pretty art
>implying most people don't just play these games because "mai waifu"

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 02:33:45 2015 No.2452803

>>2452789
Except bullet hell games have enemy waves that spawn when certain conditions are met (timer or what have you) instead of being static like enemy waves tend to be in games with obstacles. That's why you see advanced players either quick killing bosses/enemy waves or delaying their kill so that they can manipulate the spawns in certain ways. That's something a designer has to take into consideration when designing bullet hell games and it can get out of control very easily, which isn't a problem for static games. Having the enemy waves flow well and provide unique challenges is also important in any self-respecting bullet hell game. This also doesn't even consider the amount of playtesting and balancing that would be required for some of the more complex scoring systems the games have. You're also dodging the issue of obstacles detracting from the intuitive movement of the games.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 02:49:24 2015 No.2452838 >>2452468 Most of the differences in scorefag thinking come down to this, you guys think so abstractly. A level is a place. A bunch of bullets flying at you is not a place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 02:56:41 2015 No.2452859 >>2452838 I would argue that this issue applies mostly to Touhou. CAVE shmups are at least set in a physical location with ground targets that can be destroyed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 02:59:57 2015 No.2452870 >>2452838 I can't get immersed in a genre so abstract in the first place. Score is abstract, lives are abstract, power ups are abstract, life bars are abstract, you're restricted to a 2D plane for no reason, the weapons are ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 03:03:18 2015 No.2452885 >>2452870 It's a struggle in this gay genre.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 05:16:59 2015 No.2453101 why doesn't Treasure port Radian Silvergun to Steam

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 06:07:30 2015 No.2453175 >>2452725 >Just using bullets as your "level design" is wayyy easier to make. Designing level which structure changes depending on player's position is harder than placing static bounding boxes.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 06:35:32 2015 No.2453207

>>2452838
Yes. And the landscape is what makes a player feel immersed in the game. When I play a Gradius, it feels like an adventure. Destroying dragons coming from burning planets, dodging huge bubbles, fighting my way through a biomechanical fortress etc. And that's why the landscape is an important part of the level design. 2hu's backgrounds are well crafted, but you don't feel like you're making your path through the game. It's just enemies coming at you while waiting for the boss to come.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 06:38:24 2015 No.2453213

>>2452789
Posts like this serve no purpose. I'm scrolling up the thread in amazement how 95% of the discussion is fighting over vidya preferences.

Why go into a thread just to act uncivil? Telling other people they can't have their own preferences is uncivil. Maybe sometimes there is discussion going back and forth about these two sided issues, but take a step back and verify for yourself how 95% of the thread is currently shit. There is no room for fun conversation.

If you care about fighting more than civil conversation then just leave the damn board already and don't come back.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 07:53:09 2015 No.2453334

>>2452789
>>implying most people don't just play these games because "mai waifu"

I don't. I play the games because I like weaving through a horde of bullets.I don't limit myself to bullet hell/manic shooters either, I just prefer them. Personal taste, yo.

However, what does it matter why someone plays a video game? If you don't want to talk to people who play games because they have a crush on a character, then ignore them and discuss the games with other people. There are plenty of posts in this thread that have been ignored in place of arguing over whether one anons taste in shooters is better than another.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 09:18:14 2015 No.2453421 >>2453213 >verify for yourself how 95% of the thread is currently shit. That's just what happens when you have a thread full of Touhou and Danmaku gaylords.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 09:48:14 2015 No.2453473 >>2453421 Thank you for your contribution.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 09:50:22 2015 No.2453476 >>2453421 Except you don't see danmaku fans shitting on classic shoot em ups. It's always you classic shmup only faggots trying to start arguments for pretty much no reason while not understanding or even trying to understand the games you're bashing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 09:55:07 2015 No.2453482 >>2453476 >you don't see danmaku fans shitting on classic shoot em ups lol

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 09:57:19 2015 No.2453489 >>2453482 Go on, try to find some posts in this thread shitting on classic shoot em ups.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:02:45 2015 No.2453492 >>2453421 Literally shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:12:15 2015 No.2453506 >>2453489 There are several in this thread. Here for example. >>2452262 >>2452734

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:13:52 2015 No.2453510 Well, this is certainly a colorful thread. Bitterness aside, I appreciate that everyone has found their own niche within this vast genre.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:16:49 2015 No.2453515 >>2453506 Not seeing any of that there. Unless of course you think not liking Gradius and thinking that bullet hell games don't need obstacles is somehow shitting on the genre.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:19:34 2015 No.2453519 >>2453515 Gradius was one of the major infuences for oldschool shmups. If you shit on Gradius you pretty much shit on the whole genre. And he said that obstacles are just pretty eye candy and that real level design actually makes the gameplay worse.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:22:36 2015 No.2453524 >>2453515 Also here >>2448168 another post where danmaku fags shit on oldschool shmups. The thread is full of this.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:25:05 2015 No.2453530

>>2453213
Discussions like this are incredibly common for this genre and this thread has been one of the more civil ones. The poster you quoted was civil and added to the topic at hand, yours on the other hand has derailed the thread into meta-discussion. Is that better?

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:29:22 2015 No.2453532

>>2453519
>If you shit on Gradius you pretty much shit on the whole genre.
>Implying
Pointing out things you dislike about a certain game isn't the same thing as saying that danmaku developers are lazy simply because they don't make levels or condeming the entire subgenre because item pick ups aren't as important.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:31:32 2015 No.2453537 >>2453524 Am I meant to believe that the poster hates old school shoot em ups when in the very same post he mentions a few old school shoot em ups he likes? You're reaching very hard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:36:27 2015 No.2453546 >>2453532 Too bad this certain game is something like the flag ship of old school shmups. There are many other shmups which have similar pacing, movement and difficulty curves. I also never said danmaku devs are lazy.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:41:49 2015 No.2453549

>>2453532
Yes it is the same. If you disagree say so and back it up but don't cry like a bitch because someone's posting things that hurt your feelings. Bullet hell devs are lazy with backgrounds. You think it's fine because they focus on other things (I happen to agree) but why should that matter? On the areas of level design and backgrounds, bullet-hell developers are lazy by convention. This is evident and the only reason to deny it is out of butthurt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:41:59 2015 No.2453550 >>2453546 Similar does not mean the same. I love R-Type but could never get into Gradius. Does that mean I hate the genre? Fuck no. This is a genre where even a tiny difference in how a ship handles and level design can make or break a game for someone.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:42:27 2015 No.2453551 >>2453537 Most oldschool shmups have this check point system and punishing difficulty. Actually even R-Type Leo has it, despite what this anon says there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:45:26 2015 No.2453553 File: 30 KB, 240x320, level5_3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2453549 >Bullet hell devs are lazy with backgrounds Tell me more please

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:48:21 2015 No.2453559

>>2453550
The person I quoted there complained about slow pacing and difficulty spikes. R-Type has even slower pacing than Gradius and probably even bigger difficulty spikes.
The person was basically shitting on 50% of oldschool shmups because R-Type is another flag ship of this genre.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:56:53 2015 No.2453564 >>2453549 Oh by the way, certain developers like ZUN are lazy as fuck when it comes to his game's backgrounds but to say that his level design is lazy would be to use an arbitrary, limited idea of what constitutes as level design.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:58:12 2015 No.2453567 >>2453519 >>2453549 Star Force is older than Gradius and it was one of the major influences for oldschool shmups, if you shit on lack of static obstacles and call it lazy level design you pretty much shit on the whole genre.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 10:58:20 2015 No.2453568 >>2453553 I think he was more referring to rather recent danmaku like Touhou, Hellsinker, or Samidare for example. There are many danmaku games like this where you basically don't have any background at all.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:03:38 2015 No.2453574

>>2453568
Yeah but when you look at who they're made by it's no surprise. It's like using games made by professionals on a decent budget to represent one genre while using amateurs making games in their own spare time and releasing them for free for the other.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:03:41 2015 No.2453575 >>2453567 Star Force is also old as fuck... No shit it doesn't have stuff like obstacles and interesting level design.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:07:20 2015 No.2453584 >>2453575 Yeah, stage obstacles and levels were some insane technology when Star Force was released.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:08:00 2015 No.2453586 >>2453575 No, it's not how it works. You're just shitting on the whole genre by calling it uninteresting, get out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:09:12 2015 No.2453587 >>2453574 I also could compare them to games like Hydorah. This was also made by a single person I believe and is downloadable for free, and it still has decent level design.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:10:20 2015 No.2453591 >>2453587 Yeah, and I could bring up Crimzon Clover which shits all over Hydorah in terms of art.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:14:12 2015 No.2453592

>>2453584
Yes, creating interesting places in games was not easy back then. Reason why you also can't judge Space Invaders for not having much backgrounds.

>>2453591
Too bad that's also an exception for danmaku games, and most danmaku are still pretty lazy.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:18:01 2015 No.2453602

>>2453519
Sorry dude but I think you're wrong. And I'm a Gradius fan. Shitting on Gradius is not shitting on the whole genre. First, Gradius is an horizontal shooter. And the vast majority of danmakus are vertical. Though vertical and horizontal shooters have obviously a lot in common, obstacles in danmakus would be overkill. While playing a good danmaku, you're already focused on dodging the bullets an destroying enemies, and the bullets would cover the obstacles.Not to mention that it's a bit more difficult to make the obstacles stick out from the background.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:20:18 2015 No.2453606 >>2453602 >obstacles in danmakus would be overkill Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga would like to disagree with you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:26:35 2015 No.2453616 >>2453606 I never played those, so I don't know. But that's just my opinion.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:30:20 2015 No.2453625

>>2453530
If that's the only result of my post then I guess not. But I would hopefully like to see sub-genre wars treated as a topic primarily suited to separate threads, while people can use a general thread just for fun conversation. (I am aware these discussions are incredibly common.)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:34:07 2015 No.2453628 >>2453625 Well, at least they keep the thread alive, don't they?

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:35:14 2015 No.2453631

>>2453625
edit: let me add that I originally just quoted whoever was arguing last. I probably shouldn't have singled out someone as being uncivil because I should have just directed it at everyone involve in general.

I wouldn't call the discussion as a whole very civil, though. Yes, more civil than I can easily imagine in other places but 1) it isn't a friendly atmosphere, 2) it isn't the kind of happenstance discussion where two disagreeing parties exchange ideas and let the matter drop peacefully, 3) you can look back and see plenty of times where any other thread of conversation here is being stifled.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:39:24 2015 No.2453637

>>2453631
Well, just look at the OP. This is thread basically made by touhou danmaku fags, coming from /jp/... No wonder the thread derails into shitposting here.

Not that there is something wrong with liking these games, but it just doesn't really fit here on /vr/ shmup threads

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:47:24 2015 No.2453648 >>2453637 Played Touhou 7 and 11 this afternoon and aside from the bosses it's really boring imo. I think that 2hus would be a lot better of they were boss rushes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:49:44 2015 No.2453651 >>2453637 You're the main shitposter here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:52:17 2015 No.2453657 >>2453549 >>2453553 bullet hell devs are lazy with drawing sprites use of pre-rendered 3D sprites is my only problem with 80% of danmaku shooters. that said I don't hate them

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 11:55:48 2015 No.2453663 File: 10 KB, 325x344, WACKY.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2453651 >says the shitposter

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 12:28:28 2015 No.2453718 >>2453648 Try the demo for the newest one, it's actually pretty fun. sage for notretro

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 13:00:10 2015 No.2453773 Is there any program to use to have autofire for controllers when using shmupmame? There are so many shmups which become just a pain in the ass when you don't have autofire.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 13:05:00 2015 No.2453780 >>2453773 joy2key alternatively, shmupmame has its own autofire

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 13:09:33 2015 No.2453786 >>2453780 >shmupmame has its own autofire Really? Is this only in a later version perhaps? I'm using version 2.2 but I don't think you do this there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 13:33:46 2015 No.2453835 Things I miss from retro shmups: Infinite loops Stage hazards Things I don't miss from retro shmups: Checkpoints Speed up/down items

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 13:39:32 2015 No.2453854 How can you enable autofire in shmupmame? I can't find anywhere how to do this...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 13:50:24 2015 No.2453869 >>2453854 Open a game, press TAB, select autofire.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 13:58:20 2015 No.2453881 >>2453869 Ah, I see, thank you! Is there perhaps also a way to avoid making charge weapons redundant then?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:06:10 2015 No.2453894 Jesus Christ you guys, just let him see the hatred for traditional shooters if he wants to.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:33:59 2015 No.2453957 >>2453637 >This is thread basically made by touhou danmaku fags, coming from /jp/ >coming from /jp/ >>>/v/297202218

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:36:46 2015 No.2453963 >>2453606 Radiant Silvergun is pretty tame and has the bullet wiping sword, and Ikaruga doesn't even have you dodging bullets. Neither of them play even remotely similar to something like Ketsui.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:37:40 2015 No.2453968 >>2453881 So apparently you need an option called "Custom Buttons" to do this, but my shmupmame version doesn't have this...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:39:44 2015 No.2453969 >>2453963 >Ikaruga doesn't even have you dodging bullets Of course you have to dodge bullets there. They are quite different from regular danmaku, but they are also much better than them imo.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:39:46 2015 No.2453970 I like playing shmups because you blow things up.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:43:02 2015 No.2453972

>>2453969
Yeah, occasionally you have to get out of the way of a few bullets coming your way. As opposed to a lot of other danmaku where you're dodging all bullets all the time. Ikaruga's also slow as fuck in comparison to most bullet hell games, so it can get away with some obstacles.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:48:18 2015 No.2453979 >>2453881 Map a button for toggle autofire and have your main fire buttton on toggle then you can switch it between auto and charge.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:51:00 2015 No.2453985 >>2453979 >toggle autofire I think you cant do this too in my version of shmupmame

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:52:16 2015 No.2453989 >>2453606 Silvergun is hardly a bullet hell. It's basically vertical boss-rush modernized R-Type, with some zany puzzle and RPG elements thrown in. Ikaruga is kusoge though.

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:53:28 2015 No.2453993

Can anyone perhaps tell me how to start games with shmupmame 4.2? I just cant get anything tpo work with this thing... With version 2.2 it works just fine, but with newer versions I always just get a huuuge list of games which I actually dont have, and those games which I have are still not available somehow...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:54:52 2015 No.2453996 >>2453989 >Silvergun is hardly a bullet hell Yea, because 99% of bullethell games are also boring as fuck. RSG actually has some thought put into it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:56:15 2015 No.2453998 >>2453989 just to inform you everything you just said is really dumb

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:58:07 2015 No.2454002 File: 62 KB, 640x640, 12308_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I've played Gradius 3, R-Type and Radiant Silvergun and didn't like them really much. Pic related is my all-time favorite STG though. How bad is my taste?

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 14:58:37 2015 No.2454003

>>2453592
>Too bad that's also an exception for danmaku games, and most danmaku are still pretty lazy.

Yeah? Last time I checked the arcades were filled with beautiful, detailed danmaku games. You really have to go digging if you want to find more stuff with art as shitty as Touhou.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:05:18 2015 No.2454012 Does anyone know a site to download shmupmame version 3? On the dev site the download doesn't work somehow.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:07:22 2015 No.2454013 File: 25 KB, 384x224, gigawing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2454002 Mars Matrix is cool, have you played Giga Wing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:10:59 2015 No.2454018 >>2454013 Nope. It's on my to-play list now!

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:13:46 2015 No.2454024

>>2454013
If it were up to me I'd put a video of it under the dictionary definition of fun. The first time I played Giga Wing I giggled from the pure joy that is reflecting a sea of bullets back at enemies and then enjoying the medal shower that follows.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:16:22 2015 No.2454027 File: 408 KB, 779x1116, crimzon_clover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >not playing CCWI What's your excuse, /vr/?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:21:30 2015 No.2454029 >>2454027 But I do play it, it's the best shmup available on steam.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:23:05 2015 No.2454032 >>2454002 >limited frontview I don't think so Tim

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:24:06 2015 No.2454037 >>2453957 They are everywhere!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:27:36 2015 No.2454040 >>2454032 >implying 4:3 vertical shmups aren't superior to 3:4 vertical shmups Silly anon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:27:46 2015 No.2454041 File: 1.71 MB, 3264x1836, 2015-06-06 20.00.29.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw you finally pulled a ghetto Darius setup off

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:36:56 2015 No.2454056 >>2454041 that middle must fuck you over constantly

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:39:45 2015 No.2454061 Anyone have a list of console shmups that have a tate mode?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:40:28 2015 No.2454063 Where the hell can I download shmupmame 3.0b? I need these fucking custom buttons, but nothing from the dev site works for me..

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 15:44:21 2015 No.2454072 >>2454056 That's the smallest problem really. I have really hard time concentrating on both screens at the same time. Sucking at the game doesn't help either.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 16:31:40 2015 No.2454136 >>2454063 >using outdated mame builds to play shmups

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 16:39:23 2015 No.2454143 >>2454136 I would use the others, if I would know how to make them work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 18:10:39 2015 No.2454278 >>2454002 Your taste is perfect anon ! Mars Matrix is one of the best bullet hells I've ever played. Perfect level design, epic bosses and good controls.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 18:10:48 2015 No.2454279 Why can't I play Pulstar on shmupmame 4.2? R-Type seems to work now, but Pulstar just doesn't work somehow.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 18:41:27 2015 No.2454343 What is a good arcade stick to play shmups on? I need a stick which can remap buttons and/or change autofire on the fly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 18:48:51 2015 No.2454351 >>2454002 Pretty bad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 18:50:21 2015 No.2454357 >>2454003 >the arcades >implying such places exist or are relevant in any way

Anonymous Sat Jun 6 18:59:12 2015 No.2454372

>>2445150
What phone is best for shmups? I played mushihimesama on my ipad and liked it, but I think emulators on an android phone have more potential. But the ios ports literally change the code to make the ship 1 to 1 with your finger, emulators won't be able to do that. My upgrade is tommorrow and I don't know what phone I should get.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 19:17:37 2015 No.2454394 >>2454372 >playing shmups with a touchscreen

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 20:40:15 2015 No.2454548 >>2454372 https://youtu.be/8iWWf6KqIQw

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 22:14:51 2015 No.2454723 Casual shmup player here. So what are some other horizontal shmups like Gradius and R-Type? These two are the only ones I see praised to this extent. They're great, but gimme more.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 22:32:22 2015 No.2454739 >>2454723 Mr. Heli https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uPn-0MkiLA

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 22:40:11 2015 No.2454748 >>2454723 Darius

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 6 22:41:12 2015 No.2454750 >>2454723 In The Hunt

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 00:09:51 2015 No.2454934 >>2453835 >he doesn't like checkpoints Checkpoints are great for practicing areas you died.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 00:27:52 2015 No.2454971 >>2454934 Some are literally impossible to recover from. Still looking at you, NES Gradius stage 6. That thing killed my loop 2 runs more than once.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 00:33:05 2015 No.2454978

>>2454971
Yea, they also can be horribly punishing, but I like this. It makes the game much harder and challenging, instead of being a game anyone can play through.

With punishing checkpoints, you really can say "this game here is one hell of a bitch and hard to beat", without checkpoints it's just "yea, the game can be hard if you limit yourself".

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:15:39 2015 No.2455026 >>2454971 True however that's a case of game developers being faggots, not an inherent problem of checkpoints.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:29:06 2015 No.2455031 >>2454978 >limit yourself The games are designed so that good players can get a clear on one credit, and not only do you get punished by having to pay more, but your score gets reset too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:38:49 2015 No.2455039 >>2455031 Still anyone could play through this though. Not anyone can play through Gradius or R-Type though. Actually only very few can play through them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:43:19 2015 No.2455046 >>2455039 They won't see all the content, they'll get the bad ending and will get a shitty score. There's very little reason to punish them further, especially when their money is at stake instead of a button tap on MAME.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:43:47 2015 No.2455047 File: 26 KB, 864x224, Darius_triple_screenarcade_screenshot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] love the scrolling backgrounds in this game its kinda sad that i have to emulate this on a single 16:9 screen

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:47:13 2015 No.2455054 File: 14 KB, 480x480, arcade-machine-money-box.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2455046 is there any tutorial for how to do the coin box thing for a PC running MAME ?

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:50:27 2015 No.2455061

>>2455046
Endings are hardly spectular anyway in shmups. They still will get to see the levels though. If the game becomes too hard for them, then they should just stop playing. In fighting games you also have to start the match from new when you die.

Also, checkpoints are part of the learning experience. Without checkpoints when you die it's like "yea, whatever man, no real idea what actually just happened there, but lets just keep going". With checkpoints it's more like "hm, i wonder what i have done wrong, maybe i should rather try this tactic instead". Its much more satisfying imo, because you get an immediate chance to learn from your mistakes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:52:12 2015 No.2455064 >>2454351 The first two are extremely dated and Radiant Silvergun is overrated trash. Mars Matrix is great, definitely check out Giga Wing when you get the chance.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:53:12 2015 No.2455068 >>2454002 The first two are extremely dated and Radiant Silvergun is overrated trash. Mars Matrix is great, definitely check out Giga Wing when you get the chance.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:56:10 2015 No.2455071

>>2455061
>They still will get to see the levels though
Not necessarily true. A lot of games have true final bosses that only show up when you've 1cc'd the games and some games like Giga Wing even have a whole staged locked. Plus you could argue that the second loop is pretty significant. You're right that checkpoints are better for practice, but if my money was on the line I'd rather restart right away and keep having fun rather than bang my head against a wall until I'm good enough. ESPECIALLY if I was playing with a friend.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 01:58:33 2015 No.2455073 >>2455068 >The first two are extremely dated Shmups in general are "dated". Still they blow 99% of modern games out of the water though

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 02:03:53 2015 No.2455078

>>2455071
>you could argue that the second loop is pretty significant
Not nearly as significant as the main play through.
>if my money was on the line I'd rather restart right away and keep having fun
Of course. I also never said anything else. Checkpoints do not just count for using credits, but also just for losing lives. Otherwise its often just a gamble if its worth using this continue now or not, which is also an interesting aspect.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 02:15:16 2015 No.2455095

>>2455073
They're classic games but I feel like the games that tried imitating them did a much better job, hence the "dated" remark. They're good games and extremely essential for their historical background alone, but I honestly prefer Xexex and X-Multiply to them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 02:17:13 2015 No.2455102 >>2454971 The NES version fucking sucks. That hit detection with double is horrendous.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 02:18:35 2015 No.2455104 >>2455095 Xexex is overrated trash though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 02:40:43 2015 No.2455135 >>2455104 It's still the fancier game though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 02:45:04 2015 No.2455138 >>2455135 Only graphically-wise though

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 03:26:29 2015 No.2455186 >>2455095 >Xexex >not Thunder Cross

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 04:25:49 2015 No.2455230 I just had my mind blown recently. If you look closely at the original Gradius flyers, it says "Super Dimensional Fighter Gradius" in Japanese. Vic Viper wasn't the ship's name originally. Don't know why I'm posting that, I probably have autism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 04:42:36 2015 No.2455245 >>2455138 dat Flint tho

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 04:52:31 2015 No.2455250 >>2455102 My favourite part is the tentacle stage, where there's so much shit going on that the NES slows down to a crawl and the sprite limit or whatever eats up most of your firepower so you can barely even shoot back

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 04:58:44 2015 No.2455258 >>2455250 This also happens in the PCE version. The arcade version is possibly the only good version of that stage.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 05:10:32 2015 No.2455271 >>2455258 The ZX Spectrum port falls under 'so bad it's good'

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 05:34:07 2015 No.2455293 >>2454723 Thunderforce iv, satazius, metal black, border down and salamnder 2 would be my main picks. Eliminate down and gleylancer on genesis are both decent to and underated gem harmful park on ps1.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 08:59:18 2015 No.2455448 File: 24 KB, 256x224, boss_1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] favorite shooter

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 10:32:50 2015 No.2455535 >>2453568 da fuk dont you get about its RETRO? I noticed talking shmups its hard to keep it retro since the genre and its mechanics overlap decades, how to go about this before it becomes a circlejerk?

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 10:38:56 2015 No.2455543

At the risk of sounding like a casual, one of the things that I don't much like about shmups is the fact that you lose your power ups when you die.

It just seems unfair to me. Like, if I died with x number of power ups, what makes the devs think that I'll somehow do better with less than that?

I know it's supposed to urge you to get good, but it just seems a bit harsh to me.

Are there any (retro) shmups that don't do this? Or do I need to stop bitching and man up?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 10:59:50 2015 No.2455560 >>2455543 Radiant Silverfun

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 11:48:49 2015 No.2455608 ikaruga bullet eater mode > any other shmup

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 11:56:48 2015 No.2455620 >>2455608 But how is it a shoot em up if you don't shoot anyone up

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 12:11:07 2015 No.2455640 >>2455620 dodgemup w/e

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 12:51:34 2015 No.2455723 >>2455448 Looks like some gay MUSHA ripoff.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 13:04:01 2015 No.2455751 >>2455543 Oldschool shmups are designed to get played through with No Miss. You are not supposed to die. If that sounds too hard for you, then play danmaku instead or casualized shmups like Axelay or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:05:08 2015 No.2455998 >>2455751 >Oldschool shmups are designed to get played through with No Miss. Tell that to scorefags.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:07:16 2015 No.2456001 >>2455998 If you want more scores then that's what loops are there for. If the game lacks loops, then you are just too good for it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:12:49 2015 No.2456010 >>2456001 My point was that they intentionally die at certain checkpoints to milk those spots. That's why checkpoints are dumb because you can just repeat a lucrative section to boost your score which is just repetitive and boring.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:15:31 2015 No.2456015 >>2456010 No, that's why score is dumb.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:16:08 2015 No.2456016

>>2456010
I know that you can milk areas this way, but it's not checkpoints which are dumb, it's just playing for score which is dumb. Oldschool shmups are not really meant playing for score, they are meant playing for survival, which makes much more sense to me.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:21:19 2015 No.2456021 >>2456016 >Oldschool shmups are not really meant playing for score I take it you were never in an arcade when shmups and such were popular.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:23:56 2015 No.2456026

>>2456021
Most people who played this at arcades couldn't even ever finish these games, let alone get top highscores.
Only the most autistic fanbase plays them for scores, which is just a tiny percentage and definitely not which these games were aimed at.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:26:10 2015 No.2456027 >>2456021 What people did or did not do in an arcade at some place and time doesn't have anything to do with the developer's intentions.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:31:09 2015 No.2456032

>>2456026
Yeah, lets just ignore all the people that got good at arcade games and competed for scores.

Lets ignore the fact that a high score list was a thing built into damn near every arcade game.

Lets ignore all the complex and in-depth scoring systems that were developed in shmups over the years.

If games weren't made to compete for scores, there wouldn't be a fucking scoring system.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:37:09 2015 No.2456043 >>2456032 They were meant to be played for score in the sense that score is 'survive for as long as you can'. This is different from the modern 'playing for score' where you do crazy autistic things like milk checkpoints.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:37:38 2015 No.2456045

>>2456032
I'm not ignoring anyone, it's just you who ignore all the people who can't even fucking finish these games, which is like 99% of the audience.

Of course they have a highscore board, but that's not saying you have to play them for score. I see highscores more like a neat thing on the site, which you shouldn't pay too much attention to.

And these complex and in-depth scoring systems were not really the case with oldschool shmups, afaik. This only came later with danmaku.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 15:51:49 2015 No.2456082

>>2456043
Milking checkpoints is a pretty big design oversight, admittedly. But it's mostly a modern thing. Score didn't always mean survive as long as you can. There could be hard to hit enemies that gave you more points, or special stages. Galaga had challenge stages where if you managed to kill every enemy, you'd get 10,000 extra points.

>>2456045
I mentioned Galaga, but even Space Invaders had some depth to it's gameplay. You had those UFOs that would fly overhead that would give you a bunch of points. Gameplay and scoring systems that reward skill have been in shmups since shmups were a thing.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:08:33 2015 No.2456117

>>2456082
Again, 99% of people who played these games never even tried to milk checkpoints. Only the most autistic players do stuff like this. Just like only the most autistic players do speed runs.

And I don't find Galaggas or Space Invaders scoring system complex. It's just bonus stages and occasional enemies which give more points. This is nothing compared to the scoring systems from games like Ikaruga, where the whole system completely influences the way how you are supposed to play the game.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:17:33 2015 No.2456135

>>2456117
>where the whole system completely influences the way how you are supposed to play the game

That's exactly how older shmups worked as well. The bonus stages in Galaga, you had to play a certain way to hit every enemy. The UFO in space invaders, the best thing to do was to know where and when it will spawn and hit it as soon as it does, so that you don't lose any time having to line up the shot.

And no, their scoring systems are not as complex as Ikaruga's, probably because there's 20+ years of advancement between the games.

Shit had to start somewhere.

Again, if they did not intend for players to try to get high scores, there wouldn't be any of that shit in the game.

Fucking high scores were literally all that old arcade games were about. Even if you couldn't beat the game, you'd still compete with your friends to see who could get the highest score.

That's what makes scoring systems neat. You don't have to beat the game to get some fun out of it, or get some sense of accomplishment.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:22:56 2015 No.2456141

>>2456135
Occasional bonus stages or enemies which bring more points is something completely different than having to pay attention to the scoring system the whole time.

Aracde games were NOT about highscores. They were about having fun playing some fucking games. Only for the most autistic players they were about highscores. For 99% of people they were about survival and fun. And for these people, a checkpoint system is much better.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:25:35 2015 No.2456143

>>2456141
Keep telling yourself that.

The high score list would show up on the demo reel for every single fucking game, but it's not important at all. Nope.

They designed clever ways to get high scores and to reward players that got good at the game, but nope, the developers didn't care about scores at all.

And keep throwing around your /v/-tier buzzwords.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:30:18 2015 No.2456156 >>2456141 Uhh no, that's just plain wrong

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:33:42 2015 No.2456167

>>2456143
No, for the vast majorty of people who played these games it is not important at all. Again, most people couldn't even finish these games, let alone get their name in the highscore list. Why is this so hard to understand? Highscores are just a neat thing on the site. Not the sole reason people play these games for or whatever.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:36:26 2015 No.2456169

>>2456167
So basically the only parts of games that matter are the parts that casuals care about.

Any kind of depth is completely superfluous.

Also, can you at least spell the phrase "on the side" correctly? Or did you actually think it's "on the site"?

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:40:46 2015 No.2456179

>>2456169
You do not have to be a casual to not being able to finish a shmup. Actually the lack of checkpoints and punishing deaths is much more catering to casuals, which is probably the only reason you complain about them.

Also, go and stick your anglo language in your ass. Not everyone here is a dumb fat american like you probably.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 16:51:45 2015 No.2456203

>>2456179
Actually, the great thing about shmups and some other arcade games is that they can be rewarding to both casual players and hardcore fans alike.

Most people can get probably get to the second stage. Which, considering most shmups typically have only a handful of stages, allows them to experience a good chunk of the game, and have a good time.

Meanwhile, people that have played it and beaten it still have a reason to come back to the game with the scoring system. Just beating the game isn't all there is to do.

Sure, they could still just "play for fun", but when you're in an arcade, and you want to spend your money wisely, why would you spend money on a game you've already exhausted?

You seem to forget that arcade games are not at all designed the same way that console games are.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:01:44 2015 No.2456239

>>2456203
Keep whining about punishing deaths as much as you want. If these games are too hard for you, then just don't play them.

Again, you do not have to be casual to not give a shit about highscores. When people play Street Fighter or whatever, they also don't give a shit about highscores, no matter if the game has build in score systems, they mainly only care about beating the opponents and survival.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:03:40 2015 No.2456245 >>2456239 Are you even paying attention to what I'm writing? Where the hell did I complain about punishing deaths?

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:07:10 2015 No.2456261

>>2456245
You complain them the whole time, but whatever. You just make it sound as if I was the casual here, although you are the one who complains about games which punish you when dying. Go and play your danmaku or whatever where you don't get send back and can keep all your weaponry, but leave me alone with your nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:08:18 2015 No.2456267 >>2456261 I never fucking complained about them. I've been doing nothing but praising shmups. What the fuck have you been reading?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:11:06 2015 No.2456272 >>2456267 Keep living in your world retard. I really have to go now. It makes no sense obviously to post here.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:11:16 2015 No.2456273 >>2456261 >You just make it sound as if I was the casual here You don't care about highscores though, it's like the definition casual.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:13:03 2015 No.2456278 >>2456272 Please delete your shitty posts too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 17:49:50 2015 No.2456341 File: 73 KB, 530x580, ffs358271.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2456141 >using "autistic" unironically to refer to players who are better than you I want /v/ to leave.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 18:00:15 2015 No.2456371 >>2456143 High scores list were just there out of tradition and e-peen.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 18:32:58 2015 No.2456450

>>2456371
Again, the fact that scoring systems got more and more intricate as time went on disproves that.

If they were there out of tradition, scoring systems would have just remained the same.

But they didn't, because it's an integral part of their game design.

The only arcade games where no one cared about score were fighting games. For obvious reasons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 7 18:37:46 2015 No.2456458 >>2456450 They simply realized that they might as well give some people a reason to get on the scoreboard, that's all.

Anonymous Sun Jun 7 18:48:37 2015 No.2456479

>>2456458
Yes. They realized this very early on.

They want to keep people playing. It's an arcade game. You don't just want them playing once and that's it. You want them to keep coming back and keep coming back.

Scoring systems do that. Which inevitably led to it being a major part of their design, and the scoring systems themselves adding a lot of fun and replay value to the game.

Not just shmups, but most arcade games in general.

A modern equivalent would be like action games grading you after each stage. Without it, the games wouldn't be nearly as interesting or rewarding. It adds incentive to replay the game, and it rewards those who get good at it.

And it doesn't effect the game at all from a casual standpoint. They play the game and have fun, never paying attention to the numbers in the corner of the screen.

Shmups are the same way. Without a scoring system, you have a game that's 30 minutes of fun. With a scoring system, you have depth to explore that could take many, many hours. And you develop a much deeper appreciation for the game than if you had just played through the game once and that's it.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:27:00 2015 No.2457115

Is it me, or does any arcade version of Salamander/Life Force feel really rushed? It doesn't feel very good to play. Even it's ports, which were pretty much reimaginings, were better.

I think I read an interview a while back that stated they only made it in a few months to satiate fans of Gradius while they waited for 2. Could this be the reason?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:34:50 2015 No.2457127 >>2453101 I hope it has nothing to do with the 360 version. Speaking of which, does it have the saturn cinematics and subtitles?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:42:14 2015 No.2457138 >>2456450 >The only arcade games where no one cared about score were fighting games. For obvious reasons. sorry for the off topic but the fatal fury series would actually unlock a hidden boss if you ranked high enough :)

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:47:23 2015 No.2457147

>>2456479
>Without a scoring system, you have a game that's 30 minutes of fun
Have you actually ever played a shmup? It can take people years being able to play through some games. Many played Gradius or R-Type for years and still weren't able to finish it.

Scoring only became "important" with newer games like danmaku or games which don't use checkpoints and have no punishing deaths in the gameplay. Oldschool shmups were not about scoring, they were about survival. How it should be.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:49:43 2015 No.2457158

>>2457147
What did the folks do when they beat Gradius over and over again?

They tried to maximize their score.

It's the same with literally every single arcade game. Survival becomes easy, and the next challenge is playing for score.

People were competing for high scores in Donkey Kong for fucks sake. Way before shmups were even an established genre.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:50:04 2015 No.2457159

>>2457115
Yea, I think you might be on to something.
Well, there's two versions of that game, Salamander with some generic power up system and Life Force which was released in america and later re-released in Japan with gradius power ups and redone graphics, in a sense Japanese Life Force is the finished version of the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b1AyKHtr7M
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=25228

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:50:41 2015 No.2457161 >>2457147 Most danmaku don't give you a real ending unless you 1cc. So its pretty clear you haven't "beat" the game if you die too much.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:52:32 2015 No.2457169 >>2457147 >and have no punishing deaths in the gameplay. but that's wrong, you lose a considerable amout of points and get locked out of the tlb if you die

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:55:35 2015 No.2457174 >>2457159 It may be the finished version, but it still feels awful to play, and has some of the same problems Salamander had.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 00:58:31 2015 No.2457183

>>2457158
>What did the folks do when they beat Gradius over and over again?
Trying to reach the next loop without dying of course. Or they just simply moved on to the next game. Just because a very tiny percentage of people played these games for scores, doesn't mean arcade games were all about scores. They gave plenty of reason enough to play without score in mind, which like 99% of people did.

>>2457161
Of course they are also about survivial primarily, but the scoring is much more integrated into the gameplay mostly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:01:40 2015 No.2457187 >>2457183 going further in a second loop always gave you more points anyway so surviving IS scoring in those old games

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:01:54 2015 No.2457189 What do you guys think of Salamander 2?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:02:40 2015 No.2457191 I hate that era when most games had a system where you had to pick up point items JUST at the exact time when they blinked. Strikers does this and it's fucktarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:03:46 2015 No.2457196 >>2457189 Much better than the first one. It's very underrated. Probably because it barely had any ports.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:03:57 2015 No.2457198 >>2457189 people avoid it because of the ugly cgi

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:04:39 2015 No.2457203 >>2457187 No, scoring is just neat thing on the site. Surviving is surviving, just like killing enemies is killing enemies and not scoring.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:06:59 2015 No.2457206 >>2457203 in that old game they are both the same thing, gradius didn't have a scoring system

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:08:33 2015 No.2457208 >>2457206 You get points for uncovering secrets like flying under the volcano and killing a boss before timing out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:11:35 2015 No.2457213 >>2457206 It's not the same thing at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:12:46 2015 No.2457214 >>2457213 sure thing buddy whatever you say

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:18:29 2015 No.2457221 sure is /jp/ in here

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 01:20:41 2015 No.2457227 >>2457203 ON THE SIDE, motherfucker.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 02:40:06 2015 No.2457350 >>2457221 Not really. /jp/ was made to get 2hu secondaries off /a/, it has almost nothing to do with shmups of any kind.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 03:01:10 2015 No.2457370 >>2457350 I think he's talking about the general shittiness in here

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 03:55:26 2015 No.2457446 >>2457370 That's 4chan in general, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:04:02 2015 No.2457462 What are some good Saturn shumps that aren't Silvergun or Darius Gaiden?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:07:03 2015 No.2457470 >>2457350 >>2453957

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:15:41 2015 No.2457481 File: 72 KB, 640x640, 8183_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2457462

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:19:13 2015 No.2457487 File: 31 KB, 312x304, R-Type series.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2457462 Batsugun Soukyugurentai Layer Section II Cotton 2 Pic related

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:28:18 2015 No.2457498 >>2457487 >Layer Section II Although Layer Section 1 actually looks better

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:31:33 2015 No.2457503 >>2457481 >>2457487 Metal Black Don/Dodonpachi Strikers 1945/II Battle Garegga Gunbird Thunder Force Gold Pack 1/2 Also, I've never been able to get a copy of sokyugurentai to work on my saturn. Text is always garbled. What's up with that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:41:16 2015 No.2457510 >>2457221 Does /jp/ have not autistic casual pussycats who derailing threads on their site?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 04:49:22 2015 No.2457513 File: 31 KB, 500x535, what.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2457510

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 05:24:23 2015 No.2457551 >>2457503 I have no idea. Sokyugurentai is just one of these games which are still way out of my league which is why I don't pay much attention to it. It's just too hard for me to be enjoyable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 05:42:06 2015 No.2457558 >>2457221 I smell more /v/ than /jp/.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 05:47:05 2015 No.2457560 >>2457551 Also too much chaos going on on the screen. It#s super fast paced and you have super powerful weapons and screen is just full of enemies and lighting fast flying bullets. I don't really like games like this, but perhaps I just suck too much.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 07:09:56 2015 No.2457627 >>2457503 >Also, I've never been able to get a copy of sokyugurentai to work on my saturn. Text is always garbled. What's up with that? Thats a bug with the original release get the Otokuyo release.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 07:18:11 2015 No.2457639 >>2457627 I thought the last time I tried to burn it I did that. Hm. Maybe it was mislabeled.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 07:24:03 2015 No.2457645 >>2457639 >>2457627 Shit, no wonder. The releases on both iso zone and emuparadise are mislabeled. Fuckers.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 09:55:22 2015 No.2457757
File: 245 KB, 850x1193, flyer-nemesis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I just played Gradius (japanese arcade version) and Nemesis, and that's surprising to see that aside from the shitload of powerups dropped after you die and the rank system on crack, there are a lot of graphic differences between them. Nemesis's graphics seem a bit more polished, the Vic Viper sprite is different, and Gradius (jp) is bright as fuck while Nemesis is a bit too dark.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 12:39:29 2015 No.2458006 >>2457757 That's some top notch localisation

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 14:12:48 2015 No.2458158 File: 408 KB, 600x600, tss7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2457462 The Twinkle Star Sprites Saturn port has tweaked gameplay, an extra character, and more cutscenes and stuff. Probably the definitive version of that game.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 16:31:11 2015 No.2458402

What are some good entry level shmups?

I've tried some of the "manic shooter" type games like dodonpachi and mars matrix, and they just destroy me. I can't even get past the first level of mars matrix on a single credit.

Something with a smooth difficulty curve. I don't care if I'm a casual or whatever, I just want t get into the genre.

Also, vertical shmups would be preferable. I'm somehow even worse at horizontal shmups than I am at vertical ones.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 16:41:21 2015 No.2458416 >>2458402 2hu Seriously. On normal and below they're some of the most accessible, at least for a 1cc, the bullets are pretty slow, and they give you fuckloads of resources.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:03:12 2015 No.2458468 >>2458402 Try Super Aleste or anything by Compile

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:09:12 2015 No.2458475

>>2458402
>I just want t get into the genre.
Then you literally need to buckle down and prepare for some serious practice so just pick what you like and stick with it. Use your head think about your play, check strategy guides,watch good players on youtube and utilize save states. Mars matrix for example is less about dodging most of the time and more about understanding the shield function and using it effectively.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:13:42 2015 No.2458484

>>2457189
>What do you guys think of Salamander 2?
It's amazing and highly underrated. Perfect length for a 2 loop game, nice and accessible in loop 1, nice and hard loop 2 (2-5 is my 1cc limit atm that stage is pure rape), cool scoring tricks to pull off, great sound track to. I Rank it high on myGgradius favs list just behind Gradius 4 and Gaiden.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:13:51 2015 No.2458485 File: 220 KB, 512x320, ccwi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2454027

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:15:04 2015 No.2458486 >>2457198 Any shmup player who judges games on the cgi intro is guaranteed to be a pleb.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:18:03 2015 No.2458496

>>2457158
>It's the same with literally every single arcade game. Survival becomes easy,

Nah not true at all, more of the game becomes easy but in the case of all high end play players grind a shit ton and fail many many runs before they get that god run they are satisfied with.

>>2457147
>Scoring only became "important" with newer games like danmaku or games which don't use checkpoints and have no punishing deaths in the gameplay. Oldschool shmups were not about scoring, they were about survival. How it should be.
Nah there's simply room for every style and that's a good thing. Yeah im one of those weird guys that you know actually plays every kind of shmup.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:23:08 2015 No.2458503 File: 64 KB, 640x480, xiizeal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2458485 Excellent score! I've been playing Xiizeal on steam myself got the 1cc earlier very fun game.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:28:10 2015 No.2458513

>>2456141
>For 99% of people they were about survival and fun
Yeah only because they were to fucking dumb to realize you actually had things to do and just wanted to wank the stick away like a hooker on speed until they died 30 seconds later. Fun is subjective and i find getting good at these games fun, nothing beats the feeling of that special run.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:32:52 2015 No.2458524 >>2458513 wow, you sound really tough here on the net i bet that you are that special kind of talented gamer right

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:38:36 2015 No.2458529 >>2458524 No just someone who enjoys trying to improve instead of making excuses and reasons for being shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:42:13 2015 No.2458537 >>2458529 >not playing for score means you are shit i dont know what kind casualized crap you play but the shmups i play are already more than enough difficult just playing for survival

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:53:24 2015 No.2458558 >>2458513 >Fun is subjective and i find getting good at these games fun, nothing beats the feeling of that special run. If you only had posted this and this alone you'd be alright. No one wants to listen to you rant about scoring being the one true way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:53:40 2015 No.2458559 >>2458537 >i dont know what kind casualized crap you play but the shmups i play are already more than enough difficult just playing for survival Difficult for you sure I believe it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:53:52 2015 No.2458561 >>2458537 Well then a person that plays those same games for score, and survival is trivial for them, would be much better than you. Which means you're probably shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 8 17:58:24 2015 No.2458567 >>2458537 >If it's hard for me and im shit then no one else could ever be good either.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 18:00:51 2015 No.2458571

>>2458558
>No one wants to listen to you rant about scoring being the one true way.
But i never said it was? Improvement come in different forms for example consistency and some games have horrible milking strats and the such so all im saying is regardless of which game you choose your aim should always be improvement and not putting up barriers for yourself before you even tried.

Anonymous Mon Jun 8 18:06:50 2015 No.2458580

>>2458402
Touhou was my gateway drug. They are designed with 4 difficulty modes in mind. You can work your way up to expert play very naturally, and they are just generally rewarding games to play without having to learn score mechanics or requiring ultra fast reflexes.

Outside of Touhou, console shmups are probably a better bet than arcade ones. Steel Empire (Genesis/GBA/3DS eShop) is a nice Steampunk-y shmup with a good reputation. The designer created it with the intention of attracting non-hardcore players.

Pocky and Rocky (on SNES) may be not quite be a vertical shmup, but I always found it easy to get into.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 03:09:55 2015 No.2459574 File: 57 KB, 240x233, DoDonPachiColonelSchwarlitzLonghena.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Where can I read about the STORY of the donpachi games?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 03:11:25 2015 No.2459576 >>2458475 I'd recommend giga wing over mars matrix, it shares the same mechanic and developer and it's less frantic than MM.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 03:12:25 2015 No.2459580 >>2458486 pretty sure he meant the ingame pre-rendered sprites.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 03:20:03 2015 No.2459591

>>2458475
I was just playing Pop'n Twinbee on snes, easy as fuck and it's console exclusive not a port.
Xbox 360 port of mushihimesama has a novice mode with an auto bomb and smaller hitbox. Mushihime is just really, really intuitive at teaching you how do to streams and the 8 pattern. You'll end up doing it naturally without even knowing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 03:52:29 2015 No.2459626 >>2459591 Seriously, stage 3 of Mushi pushed my shit in and didn't stop until I figured out how to lead the bullets properly. I was finally able to get the Original mode 1cc a few days ago which felt amazing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 04:00:17 2015 No.2459634 >>2459591 but it's more of a U shape

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 04:05:42 2015 No.2459640

>>2459634
It's an infinity symbol.
Moving in a U shape will kill you, because there won't be a gap to move back through.

You ever tried to make a gap, and failed, and just get pushed higher and higher towards the ceiling until you have nowhere left to go? Feels bad, you can either bomb, or try some daredevil shit to get through the stream of bullets.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 04:14:39 2015 No.2459653 >>2459591 The ps2 port had an auto bomb too in arrange mode.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 06:53:47 2015 No.2459816 >>2458402 Just find a game that you really like and feel inspired to keep playing. You get out what you put in, dude.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 09:58:06 2015 No.2460049

So...Compile shmups are apparently easy?

I just recently tried MUSHA and Neo Zanac and I can't get past the first stages of either of them.

Meanwhile, I can get through the first stage of dodonpachi no problem. I don't understand why, because there is clearly more shit flying at me in dodonpachi.

I still can't figure out mars matrix. I use the thing to absorb bullets when they start flooding the screen, only to be met with another, often larger, torrent of bullets. So I guess my timing is poor. At least I can make it to the first boss on one credit now though.

I also tried some touhou games, and they seem a bit more...gentle, I guess. They start out easier than most shmups, at least. I think I'm going to devote more time to this, as I don't feel like a casual piece of shit when I play it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 10:16:07 2015 No.2460064 File: 191 KB, 717x958, Bad RNG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Just now I got the bad RNG for the stage 4 boss turrets so many times in a row. That I actually timed out the boss. Scoring is suffering.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 10:41:25 2015 No.2460109 >>2455047 Has anyone tried this or Darius 2 / Ninja Warriors on a 21:9 monitor? I bet it would be pretty sweet.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 10:50:35 2015 No.2460127 >>2460049 There is no really "easy" shmup. They are all hard. If you want easy shmups which you can play through in 2 sittings or whatever, then try shitty modern shmups like Sky Force Anniversary for example.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 11:07:08 2015 No.2460154

>>2460127
I'm not looking for "easy" shmups.

With the games I was playing, it just kinda felt like I was bashing my head against a brick wall, never able to make any real progress. Or I get to a point where I put in another credit, and about 5 seconds later I have to put in another one.

So I was just maybe looking for something different, in the hopes of finding something that would click.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 11:08:56 2015 No.2460158 >>2460049 MUSHA is really easy. As long as you have a power up, you can take a hit and not die. Also, you have to hold down a separate button for each fire mode, regular and power up.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 11:21:05 2015 No.2460174

>>2460154
I honestly don't have that much experience with vertical shmups, but I find R-Type or X-multiply have a good difficulty, because they are not so much about twitch reflexes but more about memorization and strategy. You constantly make progress there if you keep trying.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 11:24:27 2015 No.2460178 >>2460174 Also, Gradius Gaiden is pretty easy too. Just use the Limit shield and you are basically invincible the whole game.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 12:50:08 2015 No.2460307 >>2460049 I never found Compile shmups easy either.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:05:57 2015 No.2460324 >>2460178 I honest think limit is total shit and a shame it's even in the game. Gaiden needs to be played on hardest with force field or shield to be fully appreciated imo.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:07:39 2015 No.2460327

>>2460158
That only really helps if you're playing on easy or normal. The hardest difficulty throws enough shit at you that it doesn't make a huge difference unless you've got a lot of practice under your belt.

I mean, it's obviously not the hardest thing out there because of that, but I wouldn't call it "really easy" unless we're talking about playing it on easy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:47:52 2015 No.2460374 >>2460327 okay, you never specified you were playing on hardest, the stages go for a lot longer in that mode

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:49:33 2015 No.2460376 >>2460327 People usually mean the default settings on these games, I have no idea how you can get stuck in the first stage of musha, there's a power up item thrown on screen every couple minutes. Are you sure you're remembering to bomb?

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:53:05 2015 No.2460381

>>2460327
They are easy to beat but difficult to 1cc.
I think most people don't feel guilty about using continues on compile games because there's a checkpoint system going on, the game puts you back at the beginning of the stage so it doesn't feel like cheating like credit feeding does. Super Aleste/Space Megaforce pretty much gives you unlimited lives and a choice between starting the stage over or starting from the last checkpoint.
But yes you're correct, if you're going for a 1cc on hardest mode these games are very challenging.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:53:05 2015 No.2460382

>>2460324
I don't know man... Force field is actually also not much different, it's just kinda annoying always having to get hit on purpose to be able to refresh it.
Sure, you can't move through walls with force field, but I don't find the environment collision so deadly anyway in Gradius games, mostly, and with the Limit shield, you are also more vulnerable to boss battles.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:55:54 2015 No.2460387 >>2460381 I don't consider a game beaten unless you have an 1cc. You shouldn't move on to another game until you have that 1cc down in one sitting, EVER. That's the only correct way to play shooters.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 13:58:31 2015 No.2460393 Gradius III high speed stage is a huge cunt. Getting blueballed by that boss in more ways than one every time. And fuck Pachinkonami for lifting it straight from Gradius II. 100% recycled.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 14:02:48 2015 No.2460397

>>2460376
Wait, there are bombs in MUSHA?

I've pressed every button, and there doesn't seem to be a counter for them.

If there are bombs, things might get a little easier.

Also, I've managed to work my way to the third stage. I found that the ice power up works pretty great as a pseudo-shield, and selecting the formation of my little ships can have a pretty big impact.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 14:07:35 2015 No.2460408 >>2460397 oh nevermind I was thinking of space aleste, hehe

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 14:14:54 2015 No.2460420 Is Raiden the most overrated STG franchise?

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 16:15:46 2015 No.2460656
File: 316 KB, 792x1077, Hibachi too hard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I beat my PB by a little bit. It could've been 50-100 mil higher had I not screwed the end of 2--5 up.

I went into Hachi with 4 lives in stock. Still fucked up. If I had just 1 more life during the washing machine, I would've made it.

Anonymous Tue Jun 9 16:35:54 2015 No.2460714

Well, I've managed to make some headway into MUSHA.

Honestly, the continue option after getting a game over seems pointless. Starting on stage 4 or 5 or whatever with no powerups whatsoever? Fuck that. I'd have an easier time just starting over.

Also, the music in this game is pretty cool.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 9 19:43:18 2015 No.2461164 >futari ultra What the utter fuck

Anonymous Wed Jun 10 03:31:40 2015 No.2461854

>>2445286
The first boss in Mars Matrix has a safe spot near the top of his sprite. I forgot if you can hang out there for the whole fight or just phase two, but I hope this info helps you in the future. Be sure to reflect his clusterfuck attacks even if you're above where they spew out from; they bring in big gold. (stage 1 is ridiculously good for grinding gold)

Anonymous Wed Jun 10 03:34:22 2015 No.2461858

>>2445385
Agreed. Someone should amend that pic to add Takumi, with Giga Wing 1, Mars Matrix, and Night Raid representing.

I'd also say Truxton should be replaced with Grind Stormer/ V-5, if we're going by relevance at all; it was an early pioneer in bullet hell, if you survived enough stages in a row w/o deaths.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 03:35:22 2015 No.2461859 >>2460420 No, 2hu is. Raiden II, the Fighters series, and IV were fucking fantastic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 03:41:35 2015 No.2461867 >>2461859 which fighter series includes the Mk II? I can't be assed with waiting for the 999 counter for all the games trying to find out which one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 03:53:21 2015 No.2461882 Does anyone have videos of high-level cooperative play? STG attract modes usually show two ships in action, and I was wondering if it would work for two skilled players to work together.

Anonymous Wed Jun 10 04:11:23 2015 No.2461902

>>2460382
>but I don't find the environment collision so deadly anyway in Gradius games
Yeah i think 4 is probably the most brutal for environment, bubble stage is trolls, moai stage is nuts, cell stage is nuts, the last stage is nuts from the first tight tunnels to the pendulum things, took me around 30/40 hrs to get 1cc.

>>2460393
>Gradius III high speed stage is a huge cunt.
Snes or Arcade? it's a piece of cake on snes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 04:51:47 2015 No.2461946 >>2461902 May be that the environment is deadly in Gaiden, but I honestly don't make more progress with the Limit shield than with the force field.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 05:52:57 2015 No.2462000 >>2461882 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qzbMm-atIo&list=PL1C525B8ECD4ACA00

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 06:52:00 2015 No.2462075 >>2461946 4 is not gaiden and what is your level? My current 1cc pb on gaiden is 2-7 on hardest with force field and 3-5 with limit, with limit and falcion you can annihilate all bosses up until the boss rush in seconds.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 08:20:00 2015 No.2462175 >>2462000 That's one guy controlling both ships though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 08:35:56 2015 No.2462186 >>2461902 Not really. The opening closing walls don't even give you any time to observe a pattern or interval. You remember where they open or you die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 09:35:11 2015 No.2462253 >>2462075 I havn't 1cced it yet, only made it to stage 5 with both i think. May be I am just still too bad idk.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 11:47:39 2015 No.2462437 >>2460393 Gradius III in general is a huge cunt. It#s the hardest Gradius in my opinion. It's just insanely hard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 16:20:22 2015 No.2462782 Is there a name for when shmups with kind of a center of gravity in the middle that keeps you from freely moving your ship? You know, like in Raystorm, Axelay, etc. I feel like there is but I can't think of it for the life of me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 16:55:57 2015 No.2462817 >>2462782 Annoying

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 10 16:59:46 2015 No.2462823 File: 199 KB, 1200x791, 1427293222418.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2458402 >What are some good entry level shmups? Sexy Parodius

Anonymous Thu Jun 11 05:00:45 2015 No.2463847

>>2462186
>You remember where they open or you die.
Yeah so it takes a couple plays and you know exactly what it does everytime, I actually got through on intuition alone it's not that hard. Gradius 3 on snes is easy until you play it on arcade difficulty then it's a fairly decent challenge, not to be confused with arcade version.

Anonymous Thu Jun 11 05:02:25 2015 No.2463848

>>2462437
>. It#s the hardest Gradius in my opinion.
It's the hardest in everyone's opinion aside from the impossible recovery points and cube stage it also has the most dildo hitboxes ever. 3 is hard for the wrong reasons 4 is hard for the right reasons.

Anonymous Thu Jun 11 05:21:31 2015 No.2463865

>>2463848
>impossible recovery points
That's nothing new for checkpoints. And I like this. Better than if anyone could play through the game.

I honestly don't find this game much different from Gradius 1 or 2, it's actually better and just even harder.

Anonymous Thu Jun 11 06:34:31 2015 No.2463941

>>2463865
>That's nothing new for checkpoints. And I like this. Better than if anyone could play through the game.
>I honestly don't find this game much different from Gradius 1 or 2, it's actually better and just even harder.
You kinda just sound like a low level player who doesn't notice things, 4 and gaiden don't have a single checkpoint that isn't full recoverable if you're good enough and recovery takes far more skill in Gradius games than anything else.

>>2463865
>I honestly don't find this game much different from Gradius 1 or 2, it's actually better and just even harder.

They all differ though... 1 has crazy rank thus most people stay to 2 options or less, 2 has wayyy less rank and an easy first loop with only one unrecoverable checkpoint then goes mega hard in loop 2 and 3 has completely ass hitboxes and is generally a nightmare although likewise i love them all. 4 is my fav and is different again, the rank drops loads if you die a few times making all recoveries possible if you have the skill, no unrecoverable points, the best moai stage ever, basically 3's kinda difficulty but minus the bullshit. Here's a video demonstrating the crude nature of G3 hitboxes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMIStCZgQc

Anonymous Thu Jun 11 07:40:09 2015 No.2464005

>>2463941
>4 and gaiden don't have a single checkpoint that isn't full recoverable...
No really? That's also why I said Gradius 1 and 2... lol
Harsh checkpoints is nothing really special for shmups you know... And just because you rather like your games casual apparently doesn't mean they are bad. Sounds to me like you just suck at the game and blame it on the game instead.

Anonymous Thu Jun 11 09:25:59 2015 No.2464130

>>2464005
Yeah and you also said 1 and 2 aren't much different from 3 which is nonsense as they aren't even the same as each other let alone 3. Apparently you can't do reading comprehension either as i'm presenting accurately how the games function and not as a complaint. I bet you haven't looped a single one on 1 credit have you? it's obvious from your ignorance to the games nuances... whilst 3 is the only one in the entire series im yet to loop. Now try to understand what i'm saying you fuck tard.

SUMMARY: Gradius 1 is not like 2 or 3 and 3 isn't like either.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 11 09:27:42 2015 No.2464132 >>2464005 >And just because you rather like your games casual apparently doesn't mean they are bad. Is English your native language? He didn't say they were bad or anything like that? I'm genuinely confused how you got that conclusion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 11 11:47:13 2015 No.2464317 >>2463865 >Better than if anyone could play through the game. Set "no continues" as pcb default. Problem solved. And you don't have to deal with shitty fucking checkpoint gimmicks.

Anonymous Thu Jun 11 16:21:29 2015 No.2464723

>>2464130
Of course the games are not the same... It's just that you merely bitch about Gradius 3 because you suck at it and not because the game is poorly programmed how you act like it was.

>>2464132
No English is thankfully not my native language, but of course he said the checkpoints were a bad thing. Learn to read.

>>2464317
No shit... I dont have a problem with checkpoints though. but whatever

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 11 21:34:53 2015 No.2465227 What do you guys think of Gradius IV?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 11 22:08:19 2015 No.2465272 Does the steam version of KAMUI have steam compatible High-score leaderboards? I already have the game, but would rebuy it it with the Alltynex bundle in this case.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 12 01:37:49 2015 No.2465645 >>2465272 Also, can you play the Siter Kain games in Tate mode? The reslotuion in Kamui is ridiculously small in my (japanese) version.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 12 03:54:34 2015 No.2465783 >>2465227 ugly grafics

Anonymous Fri Jun 12 03:57:56 2015 No.2465789

>>2464723
>It's just that you merely bitch about Gradius 3 because you suck at it and not because the game is poorly programmed how you act like it was.
No i didn't bitch about it i am reciting facts about the game it's undisputed that the game has issues and im not saying they are a problem for me but they exist, the hitboxes ARE garbage.

Anonymous Fri Jun 12 04:01:09 2015 No.2465793

>>2465227
>What do you guys think of Gradius IV?
Best in series and highly underated, most people don't figure the bubble stage and rage quit before getting anywhere though. It has the best recovery balance of the series a death is not the end anymore and just a great game throughout more people should learn. Best moai stage ever and great sound track.

Anonymous Fri Jun 12 04:05:15 2015 No.2465797

>>2464723
>It's just that you merely bitch about Gradius 3 because you suck at it and not because the game is poorly programmed
You know even the programmers of the game admitted it was rushed due to deadlines right? That's why the snes version was cut back so much in difficulty. Go speak to any good player of the game and they'l tell you the same actually why do you think everyone bitches about the cube stage and time out some of the bosses?

Anonymous Fri Jun 12 04:08:47 2015 No.2465801

>>2464723
>No English is thankfully not my native language, but of course he said the checkpoints were a bad thing. Learn to read.
Well it's painfully obvious because your comprehension is abysmal. He said there are unrecoverable checkpoints and not that checkpoints are bad? And he's right it's a fucking fact that Gradius 3 has checkpoints you can't recover from and that doesn't mean "bad" or "complaining" or whatever it's just a FACT. My god you should stick to forums in your native language.

Anonymous Fri Jun 12 04:13:34 2015 No.2465803
File: 8 KB, 570x140, g3arc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2464723
>It's just that you merely bitch about Gradius 3 because you suck at it and not because the game is poorly programmed how you act like it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC7A3iIdAwg

1cc clear of Gradius 3 with 0 slowdown and even the player criticizes it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 12 04:21:26 2015 No.2465806 File: 71 KB, 512x124, badprogramming.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2464723 Yeah nothing wrong with Gradius 3 arcade,

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 12 08:06:36 2015 No.2465946 >>2465645 You can rotate the display for KAMUI in the configuration tool. I'm not sure if you can play Alltynex Second or Reflex in TATE but they offer much higher resolutions.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 12 08:08:41 2015 No.2465948 >>2465946 Nevermind, rotating display doesn't actually affect the resolution in KAMUI so forget that

Anonymous Fri Jun 12 14:30:23 2015 No.2466443

>>2465797
Many games are rushed due to deadlines you know. That's a part of making good games. If you make good games thy never will be finished. And console ports are very often casualized, thats nothing new.

>>2465801
He was mentioning the checkpoints, and right after said "it is difficult for the wrong reasons", fucktard.

>>2465803
Just because he 1cced it doesn't men he has any idea what he said. The cube stage is actually pretty easy. There are much much harder stages in shmups but whatever.

Anonymous Fri Jun 12 15:03:45 2015 No.2466487

>>2466443
>He was mentioning the checkpoints, and right after said "it is difficult for the wrong reasons", fucktard.
Nope he said 3 is hard for the wrong reasons but not specifically it's checkpoints asshole.

>>2466443
>Just because he 1cced it doesn't men he has any idea what he said. The cube stage is actually pretty easy. There are much much harder stages in shmups but whatever.

Ok now i see you're ridiculous and clueless, definitely not speaking from any actual experience that's for sure.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 12 17:03:55 2015 No.2466642 out of the few SHMUPs on the ZINC emulator, which one is worth coinfeeding for the weekend?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 13 00:29:14 2015 No.2467254 What's up shmup niggers

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