/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2441386]

What failed?
What didn't?

[Anonymous No.2441451]

Everything

Everything

[Anonymous No.2441458]

>>2441451
>just outright identifying him as Magus
Nah, it's gotta be implications

[Anonymous No.2441612]

As always,

-TRIGGER WARNING-

[Anonymous No.2441616]

>>2441386
>What failed?
The plot and writing in the second half, the connection to Trigger, little character development for everyone except the mains, and the battle theme.
>What didn't?
A gorgeous world, fantastic music that stands among Square's best (minus the battle theme), huge amount of party members with nice character designs (some more than others), and an innovative battle system.

It's not a bad game at all, in fact I think it's better than FF8. It feels to me like it began development as an original IP but was shoehorned into being a CT sequel at some point. Still, in spite of its flaws, I think it's among the better JRPGs on the Playstation and I'd rather play it than another FF.

[Anonymous No.2441623]

>>2441616
I agree with this post 100% except I actually liked the battle themes.

I bought the OST myself.

[Anonymous No.2441626]

I played through the game when it came out, but I have absolutely no recollection of any of it. So, apparently the story wasn't memorable at all.

[Anonymous No.2441676]

>>2441386
At first I didn't like the battle system, but over time I began to really appreciate it. My big gripe though is there should have been more variability amongst the stamina of players, or the stamina mechanic should have been slightly more complex (think spell/item manipulation). Since everyone practically always has 7.0 pts, there is not as much strategy as there otherwise could have been.

[Anonymous No.2441710]

Best girl.

[Anonymous No.2441712]

I know everyone hates on the number of characters, but I LOVED the character designs.
The clown skeleton, delightfully morbid.
The guy who was turned into a mushroom.
The straw voodoo doll with FIRE on his head. The onion knight (<- huh...).

Fantastic.

[Anonymous No.2441725]

>>2441712
Wow, I never made that onion knight connection.

[Anonymous No.2441785]

>>2441725
I think he may have been a turnip, not an onion.
=D

[Manly Man No.2442019]

>>2441616
This, pretty much. In spite of how much I love the game, there is a lot that could have been done better. The second half would have been much smoother and more well-written if the deadline for the game wasn't suddenly changed on the crew, and there would have been room for a lot more character development, such as Fargo and Viper's rivalry, Norris' hatred for Grobyc, with the former becoming more understanding while the latter becomes more philosophical; if Grobyc is in the end party, he actually mentions how he has better things to do with his life than kill stuff. My headcanon is that he becomes a Shaolin soccer player.

Steena joining earlier would have been a serious plus, if you ask me. Dem bare feet.

The connections to Trigger are a bit too vague for the most part, yes, but there are a lot of misconceptions. For example, there are a lot of people who think Crono and Marle died, because of the 'ghost' children in the Dead Sea and Opassa Beach at the end. This is, in fact, false. The letter that Lucca wrote for Kid, which was written after the fall of Guardia, refers to them in present-tense, which means they had not been killed during that time. Also, because the Ideal Timeline is a merging of the two dimensions without the meddling of FATE or the Dragon Gods, Lucca and Robo (the Prometheus Circuit) are likely still alive as well.

It requires a bit of thinking, but then again, the majority of this game does, and even if you play it a gajillion times, you're still probably going to have stuff fly right over your head.

[Manly Man No.2442067]

>>2441712
They were even planning on a Nu as a party member at one point, I think. I remember seeing speech box art of it somewhere, and it looked like a blue potato with a face and a leaf on its head.

[Anonymous No.2442081]

So what was the stuff at the end with Kid wandering around modern Japan? Was that just there to look cool or did it actually mean anything?

[Anonymous No.2442131]

>>2442081
It's supposed to be a thing about your own Kid in your universe searching for Serge (who's a stand-in for the player really, so you).

[Anonymous No.2442246]

>there are people seriously thinking that trigger is better than this masterpiece

[Anonymous No.2442257]

>>2442246
I like each of them just as much as the other. Both are amongst the best of their respective (native systems, if not THE best, so I just enjoy the everloving shit out of the both of them.

[Anonymous No.2442259]

>>2442246
>>2442246
I like each of them just as much as the other. Both are amongst the best of their respective (native) systems, if not THE best, so I just enjoy the everloving shit out of the both of them.

[Anonymous No.2442295]

>>2441616
>innovative battle system
I agree with you on everything but this.
Yeah it's innovative, it's also bad.
Once you get used to it, it's pretty easy,
only status can harm you.

[Anonymous No.2442374]

>>2442246
There are people who seriously don't play favourites and enjoy both games and enjoy the fact that there are fans of either one.

Why is seemingly everyone on this site obsessed with what other people like?

[Anonymous No.2442449]

>>2441616
To be fair, Cross' battle them was lifted straight from Radical Dreamers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7687ikwhao

[Anonymous No.2442461]

>>2441386
The entire plot of this game feels like somethign that would be explained by the Cybernetic Ghost of Christmas Past From the Future.

Also, so many fucking characters - none with any development.

[Anonymous No.2442469]

>>2442374
>Why is seemingly everyone on this site obsessed with what other people like?
You must be new here.

[Anonymous No.2442470]

>>2442461
I look at the extra characters kind of like Pokemon, sure they don't get a lot of development but personally I'm happy the story wasn't bogged down trying to give every minor character a deep backstory. It's one of the things I like about that game that you can just collect up a bunch of random people to help you. Or stick to plot important ones if that's what you want.

[Anonymous No.2442493]

>>2442461
>none with any development.

They kinda do. There's some optional scenes you can watch late game for every character.
I think a lot of people are not aware of their existence, though.

[Anonymous No.2442521]

>>2442470
>plot important ones
Like Kid and... uhhhhhhh...

[Anonymous No.2442523]

>>2441386
>What failed?
Convoluted plot, often vague directions leaving you more than a little clueless as to where you're supposed to go next, not enough done with the stamina system, the early game being oddly difficult in places, some battles so difficult you might think you're supposed to lose them and then be proven wrong, so many fucking characters, no proper level up system. Most characters are also a bit useless. That "elements on the field all need to be the same color in order to use summons" bit was also quite bad. Making a game so different from Chrono Trigger too was definitely a financial misstep, as Trigger is (and will continue to be) that RPG which gets people into RPGs, due to its short length, decent plot, easy difficult and multiple endings. Cross is a much, much more tactical game, which would scare most of Trigger's fans away I suspect.

>What didn't?
Despite there being a shit ton of characters, lots of them were bad ass and one of the absolute most brilliant parts of the game is that the majority of the major characters you interact with join your team at some point, leading to a lot of fulfilled fantasies, especially with other square RPGs where cool characters like Leo and Beatrix die.

The variety in cast was great too, and despite the sheer number of characters most of them felt distinct and unique.

The design of the game is beautiful. Chrono Trigger to this day still has well liked visuals, and Cross' coral reef motif made it a joy to play for the better part.

The dimensional effect and themes were much stronger than Trigger. You got to see the consequences of actions, and he hit you hard to see discrimination and hardship in one timeline over the others. It was a much better visual representation for the fragility of fate than Trigger expressed. Using the same time period for both worlds also meant that they could be developed further than Trigger's world and times, which all felt relatively shallow.

[Anonymous No.2442524]

>>2442461

It's just par for the course, all of the characters in CT also had scarcely any development.

[Anonymous No.2442526]

>>2442470

Suikoden did that better though.

[Anonymous No.2442546]

>>2442526
Ehhh... I could never stand Suikoden. First one was middling at best and the second had such awful writing I just couldn't get into it.

[Anonymous No.2442561]

>>2442523
>Beatrix dies
What did you smoke Anon?

[Anonymous No.2442565]

>>2442561
I guess that was just Leo. She's only temporarily playable anyway, and that's what counts.

[Anonymous No.2442728]

>>2441386
>What failed?
The battle system has a lot of interesting mechanics but due to the ease of the games difficulty it never got around to reaching its full potential. Chrono Trigger was fairly easy too but it was targeted at a younger age group and the main appeal of its battle system was flashy effects and how streamlined it was, so it doesn't come off as much of a problem there.

A potentially good storyline was suffocated by a background lore required to understand it that's three times larger than the plot of both Chrono games combined. When all the ridiculous shit with FATE, Chronopolis and Schala start showing up in disc 2 everything falls apart hard. They should have either done a distinct spiritual successor or a direct sequel instead of this weird, rushed, indecisive plot that's failing to be both.

The giant party was worthless as a gameplay mechanic due to how the magic system is set up and also hurts the storyline because it means every cutscene had to be written around 40 unique characters. The accent filter was a bad stand-in for proper character dialogue and development, and while the idea was ambitious it would have been put to better use in something like a strategy RPG.

The two parallel worlds were neat from a thematic point of view but gameplay wise it got pretty boring constantly revisiting the same areas with little difference. Chrono Cross felt like a very small game despite all of its features and length because of it.

The worst song in the game is the common battle theme you here more than anything else.

>What didn't?
Despite my grievances with the battle mechanics they were still interesting and a breath of fresh air..

The game is fucking gorgeous and its OST is one of the best of all time.

Mojo was bro as fuck.

[Manly Man No.2442947]

>>2442521
You can actually go the entire game without having Kid on your team, by the way.

As for the other characters, the three remaining Devas (Karsh, ZOAH, and Marcy) play a part early in the game, come back in mid-game, and stick with the party after that (there's also a side story involving Karsh and how he killed Dario). Nikki shows up once to break into Viper Manor, and is also part of the quest to wake up the Black Dragon. Sadly, two of my favorites, Grobyc and Steena, don't have much of a part in the plot, even if they're important (Grobyc saves the party from a giant-sword-robot-thing, and Steena gives you the Dragon's Tear to give Serge his own body back) to some degree.

[Anonymous No.2442963]

>What failed?
- It's not a jRPG version of Radical Dreamers
- It made Radical Dreamers non-canon
- Too many irrelevant party members

>What didn't?
- OST
- Battle System
- Graphics

[Anonymous No.2442995]

>>2442469
Not new to /vr/.

We didn't use to bicker how we were having fun wrong like it was on /v/. Now all I count on from /vr/ is a steady stream of people bitching about how their tastes are superior and falling for trolls the kids on /v/ wouldn't even fall for.

[Anonymous No.2443000]

>>2442947
You forgot about Radius, Norris, Harle, Viper and Fargo. And Serge.

[Manly Man No.2443165]

>>2443000
I know. I was just giving a few examples.

[Anonymous No.2443173]

>>2441386
>What failed?
Combat system
Leveling system
Too many characters

>What didn't?
Graphics
Music

[Anonymous No.2443186]

>>2442963
Battle engine was fucking shite compared to Chrono Trigger's, mate.

Nothing beats the ATB.

[Anonymous No.2443187]

>>2441386
>What failed?
pacing

>What didn't?
everything else

[Anonymous No.2443193]

>>2443186
>Nothing beats the ATB.

ATB is fucking shit
>wait for bar to load
>attack because fastest attack = best attack
>rinse, repeat

[Anonymous No.2443196]

>>2443193
You probably played with "Wait" on, didn't you, you casual faggot?

Also attack was only good with Ayla, everyone else did more damage with techs.

[Anonymous No.2443203]

>>2443196
>You probably played with "Wait" on

>attack because fastest attack = best attack

Nice triggernigger logic

[Manly Man No.2443294]

>>2443196
Crono fucked shit up with attacks too, pretty much the only times I've ever had him get truly magic-intensive is during the Prehistoric era (to zap dinosaurs), the Dark Ages (for the enemies that require nailing them with a particular type of spell), the Black Omen (to nuke big crowds, what with having Luminaire and a Gold Stud), and against Spekkio (because he's immune to everything except magic).

Honestly, by mid-to-late game, Crono was doing high physical damage more consistently than Ayla.

[Anonymous No.2443312]

come to think of it trigger did a really cool job with the rock paper scissor elemental weakness system, in most rpgs I just spam whatever highest mp spell I have but in CT it's really fun to mix and match characters with different elements.

[Anonymous No.2444030]

>>2441616
>It feels to me like it began development as an original IP but was shoehorned into being a CT sequel at some point.
I can see why you think that but it's not the first sequel to CT. Radical Dreamers is more similar in tone to CC than CT is, so it's almost necessary as a transition between the two games.

Based on the fact that the director of CT stopped re-releases of Radical Dreamers, it seems like he was a bit of a troubled creator. I suspect that Chrono Cross is the way it is because Masato Kato had unrestrained creative freedom, and nobody wanted to tell him no whenever he wanted to stuff more content into the game. Basically I'm saying Chrono Cross is the director's cut with all the extra scenes that don't flow as well.

[Anonymous No.2444054]

>>2444030
Actually, the problem was that Square pulled people off of Xenogears and Chrono Cross in order to finish Final Fantasy VIII, resulting in THREE incomplete, inconsistent, disappointing games.

Square made some really bad decisions, in retrospect.

[Anonymous No.2444075]

I do like how every random NPC seemed to be suffering from an existential crisis.
Serge: "Hey what's up?"
NPC: "The waves come and go, forever ebbing and flowing. I wonder if I'll be remembered when I'm dead. Serge, you must live every day to the fullest for you never know when the icy grasp of death will cut your life short."
Serge: O_o

[Anonymous No.2444096]

Buger.

[Anonymous No.2444127]

>>2441616
>I think it's better than FF8
That's not saying much, though.

>It feels to me like it began development as an original IP but was shoehorned into being a CT sequel at some point.
Yeah I thought the same thing, actually.

[Anonymous No.2444150]

triggerniggers failed.

[Anonymous No.2444196]

>>2444150
>Cross fans calling people who preferred Trigger a "nigger"
As expected of someone with inferior intellect and taste.

[Manly Man No.2444268]

>>2444196
You say that as though both games aren't equally enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.2445456]

>>2444196
Trigger fanboys do behave like niggers

[Anonymous No.2445502]

>>2444268
Cross isn't as enjoyable as Trigger though.

>clunkier, more boring combat
>spend almost half the game as a furry doing filler shit
>most of the cast is forgettable
>plot is cringeworthy 2deep4u convoluted garbage
>game becomes broken once Serge gets mastermune, at least you had to work for the best sword in CT
>not as many double/triple techs, also they're shit compared to CT's

The only improvement CC made was the music, and if you hate Toriyama, the art.

[Manly Man No.2445735]

>>2445502
>Trigger combat boils down to mashing the attack button, only occasionally using techs
>spend almost the entire game on a series of wild goose chases
>most of the cast is unimaginative
>plot is wacky and childish
>game becomes broken by the time you get to Mt. Woe
>double/triple techs are ultimately far less effective than just having everyone use all their own spells

[Anonymous No.2445742]

>>2442995
Except people bitching about other people's tastes has been a thing on 4chin since the beginning. It happens on literally every single board.

If you prefer circlejerks about how great some title is, you should try reddit.

[Anonymous No.2448460]

>>2442461

AND AS IT WAS IN THE PAST, SERGE WOULD HENCEFORTH BE KNOWN AS LYNX THE ANTHROPOMORPHIC CAT-MAN FROM THE FUTURE PAST WHO WAS FOLLOWED AROUND BY HIS SEXY COURT JESTER WHILE THE USED THE ELEMENTS...

Oh wait... is that guy playing Chrono Trigger...

[Anonymous No.2448471]

>>2445735
>Trigger combat boils down to mashing the attack button, only occasionally using techs

people keep saying this, but it's not true. there are many points in the game where techs are useful or even necessary.

[Manly Man No.2448605]

>>2448471
I know. Me saying what I did was to point out that almost everything the other Anon said is entirely subjective, being negative interpretations of some facet of the game they dislike, and so I went and made a list of what Chrono Trigger's 'shortcomings' are, based on what someone else could see each part as.

I actually don't believe half of what I put up there, to be honest. As I said, it was just making a point. Although, I personally didn't use a whole bunch of magic that wasn't healing, save Prehistory, Magus' Castle, Dark Ages, Heckran's Cave, and against Spekkio, and even then, by late-game I was healing more often with items than with techs.

[Anonymous No.2449024]

>>2448605

I see, that makes sense. I jumped in and took it out of context. although I have seen people seriously argue that point, even though you named several exceptions.

I do think the game throws too many healing items at you, the game is already on the easy side and spamming megaelixers is kind of broken.

I wish instead of newgame+, there was an unlockable hard mode. that would've given CT more replay value. but overall it's one of my favorites and it's a classic.

[Anonymous No.2449048]

>>2445742
>why is thing
>because we do
>but we didn't always
>but now we do

Great thread, guys.

[Anonymous No.2449086]

i guess they were hoping they could turn 'Chrono' into a franchise like FF and Dragon Quest but Trigger was a special game because of the setting and characters, not in spite of them. the setting had a lot more charm than most other RPGs and without it Cross is just a hollow imitator of what made Trigger so special. they should have either tried to make a more directed, obvious sequel or make Cross into something completely original.

[Anonymous No.2449127]

Best game of the Chrono trilogy.

[Anonymous No.2449159]

>>2445742
>If you prefer circlejerks about how great some title is, you should try reddit.
>Implying 4chins isn't a huge circlejerk like reddit or any internet community

I want this old myth of 4chan being different from the rest to die already, literally the only difference is that mods do fuck all here most of the times, which has greatly contributed to the steady decline of actual good threads over the years.
But considering most people here think that insulting people gratuitously and memeposting is actually constructive criticism and good content I don't think there's any interest of talking about things in the first place.
>>2449086
I don't see your points at all, CT had nothing going for it in terms of originality back in the days, even disregarding the fact that it had Birdmountain-san as character designer, the setting, while beautifully rendered was shallow and generic, the plot is a mess mostly because time travel doesn't make sense in any way to look at it, and even without time travel in it, all the rest is generic RPG 101, pretty well done, but generic nonetheless.
Regarding your claim of Cross imitating Trigger, I guess that's really just your impression considering Cross does its own thing all the way and doesn't have much shared with Trigger outside of a few names and lore references.
The towns, designs and world structures are completely different, same with characters and narrative, but I'll need quite a few posts to ilustrate this accurately, there's lot to talk about here, even the whole design approach is different, Birdmountain's world and characters are lifeless and generic, they wouldn't look out of plane in either DQ or Dragon Ball, Yuuki's designs, while a bit weird sometimes, stand out much more than any of Trigger's characters, take Greco, Nikki or Fargo for instance.
The themes of the games are also different and that is reflected in each character's arc in Cross, no time travel either.

[Anonymous No.2449183]

>>2449086
>game does everything different from the tired old jRPG shit
>just a hollow imitator

[Anonymous No.2450478]

Here is what I think led to CT's success:
- Bitchin' soundtrack.
- On-field battles.
- Playable characters are a variety of shapes and sizes.
- Pretty animations and dual-techs (even though most of them are useless compared to single techs, they still look cool)
- You get to hang out at a carnival at the beginning of the game.
- Lavos is mysterious yet omnipresent and always feels threatening.
- Convoluted storyline. (it worked for FF7)
- Anime tropes. Kawaii as hell.

CC's biggest mistakes are probably:
- Not having on-field battles.
- Not having very many dual-techs.
- Not having enough wacky anime tropes.

I think Lynx is an alright villain but he's definitely not as cool as Lavos, and he gets taken out before the story is even over so that's kind of lame.

[Anonymous No.2451656]

>>2450478
>Convoluted storyline. (it worked for FF7)
What? Chrono Trigger's storyline is extremely straight forward.
The games popular because it's easily approachable. The combat is simple, fast, streamlined and flashy. The goal of the story is obvious as early as 2300 AD and while there's a twist here and there the player is never left wondering about what the hell is going on. The characters are unique and identifiable but their arcs are relegated to subplots and sidequests instead of weighing down the main quest with melodrama. The artwork was done by Akira Toriyama at the height of Dragon Balls popularity.

It's an RPG made for people that are wary of playing RPGs, while being polished enough for veterans of the genre to still appreciate. Chrono Cross, in comparison, is extremely complicated and falls into the pitfalls of the genre far more often than Chrono Trigger, giving it more of a niche appeal.

[Anonymous No.2451684]

>>2450478

>Here is what I think led to CT's success:

In addition:

>art by Akira Toriyama
>time travel
>Variety of time periods, each with their own music, characters, setting, feel, storylines

Chrono Cross should have been KISS. Chrono Trigger in 2D/3D. They changed too much which was polarizing. It wasn't the sequel Trigger fans were looking for.

[Anonymous No.2451751]

>>2450478
Lavos was a relatively awful villain though, because he's just a mindless drone with no real incentive. Lavos simply acted on survival instincts, which made him akin to being little more than just a big, powerful animal. He literally had no personality to speak of, and so there was nothing to hate nor like about him.

Lynx is however introduced in a very mild way, and the way it becomes more apparent over time just how sinister he is is really well done. Particularly the way it cultimates in that heart-wrenching scene in Lucca's orphanage.

Lynx acts cruelly because he wants to, Lavos does it because it's just his instinct, and so that makes him a much better villain because he has a much better developed character than Lavos; he's manipulative, insidious and ruthless in the way he acts and that meant there was more at stake. Lavos is definitely threatening, but more in the way a shark or a panther is, it barely even comprehends what it's doing, so you can't really get mad at it in the same way you can with a humanoid which chooses to be cruel.

I'd agree with you otherwise on your points though. Chrono Trigger is just a great looking and enjoyable game, I could never recommend Cross to a first-time RPG player, but at the same time Cross was much less generic and tried so many new things, which makes me admire it a lot more as a game.

[Anonymous No.2451807]

>>2451751
Lavos was great. His influence on the world and civilization could be felt in every single time period, and despite being able to take him on at any point in the game the player always knows they don't have a shot at killing him. He's he's a force of nature, which isn't inherently worse than a proper character, and fit perfectly for a time travel story.

His motivations, even if they were influenced by his instinct, became clear in the final boss battle too. He was steering humanities evolution to benefit himself, wiping them out so he could breed and then shooting his spawn off to repeat the process. He knew exactly what he was doing and far more intelligent than his insectoid shell makes him appear.

[Anonymous No.2451813]

>>2441386
Pointlessly convoluted battle system, babby's first leveling, boring story.

Pic related is the game Chrono Cross should have been.

[Anonymous No.2451831]

>>2451807
>Lavos is 2deep4u

[Anonymous No.2451850]

>>2451831
How was any of that 2deep4u?

[Anonymous No.2451853]

>>2451813
I used to think Cross's battle system was bad, but then I played Xenosaga II

[Anonymous No.2451869]

>>2441386
Seeing Gato's dismembered body all over Lucca's burning house made me feel sad. Why was this canon...i mean...it WAS canon, right?

[Anonymous No.2452094]

>>2451869
Fucker had it coming

[Anonymous No.2452179]

>>2444127
"I shit on FF8, so your opinion is invalid"

Not the guy you're responding to, but seriously when you just shit on a game based off your opinion and use that to say chrono cross isn't special because of your opinion it makes you sound arrogant.

[Manly Man No.2452650]

>>2451807
Considering that Lavos has the intelligence to go and tweak things with different beings, I've entertained the idea for awhile that Lavos is the reason why you don't see any kind of father at his house.

Lavos IS his father, thereby making Crono a miniature Dream/Time Devourer, but inverted (human with Lavoid DNA, rather than a Lavoid with human).

I've mentioned this theory on a few other sites, and it's pretty wacky anyway, so I don't take it seriously for the most part.

[Anonymous No.2452869]

Wow... I've always been blinded by my stupid nostalgia, you guys made some great points, chrono cross probably is not my favorite game anymore :/ (but you can't deny dat music though)

[Anonymous No.2452991]

>>2450478
>- Not having on-field battles.
every play the playstation port of Chronotrigger? the load times from every battle are nearly as jarring as random battle transitions. on field battles(which I prefer) worked in Trigger because it was on a cartridge
>- Not having very many dual-techs.
agree, I was disappointing by that

[Anonymous No.2453027]

>>2451807
>became clear

Those were throwaway mentions at best, really. One of the characters suggests it, and that's about it. As villainy goes, I thought it worked better for Chrono Cross as the different dimensions being intentionally created and the world messed around with by properly sentient beings was much more callous

>he's a force of nature, which isn't inherently worse than a proper character

Of course it is. Instead of being a well-developed character in any regard he simply exists for the sake of existing; he's an obstacle for the characters simply because he's there, and as a result he lacks any real immediate threat. He will always have the same level of power, he will always attack right at the same time in history, and he will never act any differently because he's just a big powerful animal. Compared to a more manipulative and sentient villain, which can act and change in a chaotic and unexpected way, Lavos will literally always act in the same manner and that removes a lot of real threat from him. Even like a big powerful animal, like a lion or some such, as soon as you can tame it and defeat it, that's it, it can't really conspire against you or anything of the sort.

>He knew exactly what he was doing and far more intelligent than his insectoid shell makes him appear.

That's not intelligence though, it's pure instinct. All parasites in nature do the same; it's a basic means of survival for them. The tarantula hawk doesn't think about why it's trying to lay its eggs in the brain of a tarantula, it just knows to do it.

I won't say Lynx was the best RPG villain out there, most of them are pretty generic too, but he had some substance over Lavos whom in many ways was more of a nuisance than intimidating.

[Anonymous No.2453045]

>>2441386
>failed
1. not a direct sequel to CT
2. pretty shit combat system
3. way too many characters with not enough of a reason to care about them

>succeeded
1. still a good ps1 era rpg
2. soundtrack is good
3. worlds look nice

[Anonymous No.2453828]

>>2451656
I'm not comparing CT to CC when making that statement. I'm comparing to CT to every other JRPG of the SNES era. Compared to, say, FF4 or FF6, CT has way more twists and gotchas. And even though it's a story about time travel, the way time travel works is inconsistent and confusing, in particular with regard to how changes to the past affect the main cast.

[Anonymous No.2453843]

>>2453027
I'm of the opinion that villains don't need to have depth, they just need to be threatening and motivate the player. Look at Kefka, the guy has zero depth but he's still the favorite video game villain of many people.

I agree that a well-developed, thoughtful character can make a good villain, if they're in the right story, like something that is political in nature. But Chrono Trigger isn't really that kind of story, so an infinitely destructive alien parasite that feeds on time distortions and human evolution is a lot more appropriate. You wouldn't see a character like Lynx in the Dragonball universe. Goku would just punch his shit.

[Anonymous No.2453849]

>>2441386

I don't give two shits about some tropical polyneasian islands. I want to time travel to the middle ages with anime characters.

The appeal of Chrono Trigger is so simple yet they fucked it up.

[Anonymous No.2453858]

>>2445456
Real talk

Chrono Trigger 2 for ps4 when???

[Anonymous No.2454646]

>>2441386
Coming from CT, so this is mostly a comparison.

Combat was very slow (loading and animations).
Combat system felt very bizarre to me.
Magic system was lame and contrived. Can only use each spell once per battle?
Too many characters, most have little or no story.
It shit on Chrono Trigger's story and all I accomplished on one of my favorite games. Killed them off, revived Lavos, etc.
Too much back-and-forth. The same locations over and over.

By itself though, the overall story was good and the soundtrack was amazing.

[Manly Man No.2455103]

>>2454646
Well, about CT's characters dying...

The letter that Lucca had written for Kid? It was written some time after the fall of Guardia, and refers to Crono and Marle as if they're still alive. The 'ghosts' you see in the Dead Sea and at Opassa Beach are all just little fragments of a negated timeline, not actual ghosts. On top of that, after you beat the game properly, the two worlds fuse into an Ideal Timeline, blending the best circumstances of both dimensions, and without the interference from FATE and the Dragon Gods. Thereby, Lucca is alive, and the Prometheus Circuit is still intact (possibly even still Robo now, since the Frozen Flame is no longer in existence, if I'm remembering correctly).

[Anonymous No.2456892]

I'm currently playing it for the very first time.

[Anonymous No.2456924]

>>2454646
I think this is the reason that CC gets as much hate as it does, it just simply negates your "ending" in Chrono Trigger.

It can't remember exactly what the "canon" method of defeating Lavos' is but I always did it via the Black Omen in 15,000 BC, which in the timeline, is the earliest possible time you can defeat Lavos. I think in the canon you either crash the epoch into him in 1999 or you use the bucket at the end of time.

I'm going to replay them back to back probably next week as I have some time off. I'm looking forward to trigger, but not so much for Cross. Maybe I should take notes and make a comparison that I can right up and post every time these fucking threads show up (see: almost daily)

[Anonymous No.2456982]

>>2441386
>What failed?
-Too many characters to recruit; too many characters in general (not enough time to focus on them)
-Combat was kind of boring.
-Standard battle theme
-Magic was off. Summons felt out of place.

>What didn't?
-The setting; tropical themes look unique
-97% of the songs
-Story was interesting
-I thought the two dimensions were interesting.

[Anonymous No.2456991]

>>2442295
Most RPGs have battle systems that fail to challenge once you understand them, this is sorta standard.

[Anonymous No.2458009]

>all the hipster faggots in this thread pretending this game was anything but mediocre

[Anonymous No.2458019]

>>2456982
what was the point of those traps? how are you supposed to know when to use them?

[Anonymous No.2458031]

>>2443294
>Crono was doing high physical damage more consistently than Ayla

He should.

Ayla gets damage upgrades at set intervals. 1 at 24, 48, then 72 and 95 are when she gets full retard. Most people beat the game around level 48 (probably lower) in their first playthrough which means you probably aren't going to see Ayla get to full retard levels of power.
Chrono's Rainbow has a 70% critical hit rate and 220 base damage. It is easy as all fuck to get, and Chrono is just innately one of the strongest characters (being the protaganist, ala most Final Fantasies he is simply broken). Luminaire is unrivaled in terms of destructive power, he is fast as all hell, and has a 70% chance to crit his physical attacks.

Ayla will outdamage chrono single target at level 72+ most likely, but that requires an absurd amount of grinding and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k

[Anonymous No.2458136]

>>2458009
How do you feel about Chrono Trigger?

[Anonymous No.2458183]

>>2458019
Did you skip the tutorial on traps? Rhetorical question, you can't skip it. Here's how you use a trap.

1) An enemy encounter occurs. One of the enemies uses an element that you have a trap for.
2) The next time you encounter that enemy, cast the trap, and most of the time the enemy may oblige you and cast their element into that trap.

Simple. Also one of the best ways to accrue extra high-level elements since you can't buy them outright, but you can buy plenty of traps for them.

>>2458031
>absurd amount of grinding
It's been a while but I remember getting to max level in only three playthroughs.

[Anonymous No.2458196]

>>2456924
>I think this is the reason that CC gets as much hate as it does, it just simply negates your "ending" in Chrono Trigger.

Cross negates nothing. There is no canon, just infinite possibilities. Home isn't canon as far as Another is concerned, it's an aberration. Radical Dreamers is another possibility (apparently where Crono was never revived), and so is whatever else you can come up with.

[Anonymous No.2458214]

>>2458019
>what was the point of those traps? how are you supposed to know when to use them?

https://youtu.be/3o9oogrGbTA?t=2m35s

[Anonymous No.2460065]

This game has always confused the hell out of me.

So it has a fuck ton of characters, but they're all pretty much the same battle-wise right, also none of them have unique dialogue unless the story directly relates to them?

If so, then you're trading story and gameplay for character design. The alternative is that all the characters have a unique spread of stats and abilities and they all chime in with their own dialogue at story points, but that sounds like far too much work for any game to accomplish.

I don't know, tl;dr - What makes the playable characters different from eachother?

[Anonymous No.2460229]

>>2460065
You've never played this game, have you?

>So it has a fuck ton of characters,
45

>but they're all pretty much the same battle-wise right,
No they're not, they have
>a unique spread of stats and abilities
You can improve their stats by using them (which gives them small boosts). Abilities are customizable for all characters, but the distribution for abilities is unique for each character, and they all get three unique skills. Their third skill is usually only obtainable by completing a sidequest, though this is not always the case.

A few of them have very unique uses that can't be found anywhere else; one of them mimics monsters you've killed, another evolves depending on what kind of spells you cast, only a select few can steal, etc.

Also, each character has their own elemental affinity, which does play a big part in the battle system.

>also none of them have unique dialogue unless the story directly relates to them?
For events that don't relate to them, they usually have the same lines but filtered through a dialect... uh, program. Each character has their own accents in this way. In a few key points of the main plot they do have their own dialogue.

This isn't too entirely different from how Chrono Trigger did it. Characters that where in the party during events that were of small relevance to them would just say generic stuff in their own style. It's sort of the same, only more generic once you realice the only difference in Cross is the accent.

>that sounds like far too much work for any game to accomplish.
Cross sure did try, though.

>>2458196
>There is no canon, just infinite possibilities
This is bull, and the Radical Dreamers 'dimension' is just an easter egg in Cross. Canon timeline is Another, Home is an aberration where your Trigger ending is negated, and the point of Chrono Cross is to PREVENT your Trigger ending from being negated without losing the good things that come from Home World.

[Anonymous No.2460495]

>>2460229
What a load of cuck, where do you think Dinopolis came from?

[Anonymous No.2460547]

>>2460495
From a world where Lavos didn't fall. You know, the only other dimension besides Another and Home we ever see - dimensions that split because of Lavos. "Infinite possibilities" is a fan theory, with the only things to back it up being the RD easter egg and the ending showing the real world.

Also
>cuck

[Anonymous No.2462880]

>>2453027
>as soon as you can tame it and defeat it, that's it
http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Brobdingnagian_Teratoid_Tarrasque

[Anonymous No.2464223]

Quick question, do I have to level the main character? Are there fights that force him into the party, because otherwise I'd like to just pick 3 other people and use them.

[Anonymous No.2464314]

>>2464223
>I'd like to just pick 3 other people and use them.

You're stuck with Serge the whole game unless you use the Relief Charm...which you only get on New Game+.
I guess you could cheat and add the item to your inventory if you're into that?

[Anonymous No.2464359]

>>2464314

I think I will do that actually, thank you. Always wanted to try this game but the idea of missables used to daunt me a lot, doesn't bother me as much anymore.

[Anonymous No.2464894]

>>2460547
>a world

you mean "dimension"