CRT Thread - Heaven or Hell

[Anonymous No.2411195]

Previous thread - >>2390249

This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!

These past few threads have been great, keep it up!

>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright!
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.

CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933

[Anonymous No.2411261]

Anybody have some advice for me? My Astro City monitor (Nanao MS9) is having problems with red. Anything red seems to darken to the right as the beam scans across. You can see it pretty well in this picture. Do I need a cap kit or is my tube dying?

[Anonymous No.2411309]

This is the TV I grew up with. I played my first games on the NES on this TV and I kept playing on it through the Gamecube/PS2 era. I hardly use it anymore, but there're a lot of memories in it so it's surprisingly sad having to get rid of it.

It's been fun. ;_;7

[Anonymous No.2411319]

This is the TV I grew up with. I played my first games on the NES on this TV and I kept playing on it through the Gamecube/PS2 era. I hardly use it anymore, but there're a lot of memories in it so it's surprisingly sad having to get rid of it.

It's been fun. ;_;7

[Anonymous No.2411369]

who else here is crt with built in vcr masterrace

[CptFab !eoAPYwk2Tk No.2411645]

I picked up a PVM-20M2U today, I was wondering if you guys could give me some setup tips.

I'm looking to hook up a snes, ps1, ps2, and gamecube to this. It generally goes console ->scart -> bnc cable -> pvm right? I probably need a switcher of some sort if im going to hook all these up. I'm still kind of fuzzy on the whole audio setup, I imagine you need a cable that has the red and white audio rca seperate. I know that the gamecube is a bit of an exception, so I was thinking of using S video for that.

I need recommended models of
-Scart switcher
-Audio switcher
-Speakers
-Cables

Here's a picture of the front, sorry for the shitty phone picture.

[CptFab !eoAPYwk2Tk No.2411648]

And heres the back panel.

[Anonymous No.2411668]

>Shitty old A510 dug from a electronics box
>no stabilisation
>3.2MP
>runs on AA
>has shutter and focal controls
>mfw my newer 220HS doesn't
>mfw when the 510 is easier to work with CRT
DAMMIT CANON

[Anonymous No.2411692]

>>2411668
Oh well, the 220 has 240fps recording at least

[Anonymous No.2411716]

>>2411645
check out RetroRGB, if you haven't already. he's got a page on scart switches and a link to another - http://retrorgb.com/scartswitches.html
I use a Bandridge 5-way, which is often recommended, and haven't noticed any issues. Can be hard to find, though.
for cables, retrogamingcables on their own site or retro_console_accessories on ebay are popular. I have ones from each, but my setup is a bit different, so I don't know about the scart-to-BNC cables.

[Anonymous No.2411729]

>>2411716
just realized those cable sellers will probably only cover the SNES. I'm not sure about the PS1 and would like to know as well. Best cable for PS2 is component, since RGB can't handle 480p.

[Anonymous No.2411743]

>>2411729
RGB can handle 480p.
Think the highest official standard is WHUXGA. That's 8k.

Now a scart input may be limited.

[Anonymous No.2411775]

>>2411743
yeah sorry, RGB SCART can't handle 480p

[Anonymous No.2412641]

I'm currently running my snes and modded n64 on my hdtv with a scart to hdmi converter. I want to pick up a CRT for playing Smash on my wii because the input lag is killing me. I've been looking at the flat screen trinitrons, would that suffice for playing my wii/snes/n64 on if I were to also pick up that scart to component converter?

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2412659]

>>2411729
>those cable sellers will probably only cover the SNES
Both cover Nintendo and Sega consoles quite well.
RGC recently added Playstation cables to their offerings which is nice.

Component would be nice for 480p support, but that PVM won't support it anyway. Any PVM that would support progressive scan would also support RGsB, which the PS2 is perfectly fine using for 480p titles.

>>2412641
If you get a model with component, that would work fine with a RGB to YUV transcoder. You wouldn't need it for the Wii though, since it's capable of component out right.

[Anonymous No.2412681]

>>2412659
I was reading that some of the trinitron models had some post processing that would create some input lag, is that true? And if so what models should I avoid?

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2412692]

>>2412681
ED/HD models; They'll scale low-res signals and introduce a delay.

[Anonymous No.2412694]

>>2412692
I see, I'll avoid those then. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.2412743]

>>2412694
If NTSC then Smash will run in 480p though, which is more colorful and bright. A "Progressive" EDTV would work for that. Easiest to go SDTV and run 480i, then it'll work for everything. Most of the silvery Trinitrons in 16:10 were ED/HD, and marked that way on the back. Just check the model numbers.

[Anonymous No.2412759]

Somewhat CRT related, now my PAL trinni does do 60hz over RGB scart, but lets say I got a SNES\megadrive and an everdrive, will the NTSC roms play in 50hz or 60hz ? or do I need to mod
I'll probably just get a wii instead.

also can you only get 240p over RGB ? I've always wondered this , I always had RGB scart cables but I'm curious

[Anonymous No.2412769]

>>2412759
these pal consoles will alway output 50hz if not modded.

480i is the limit for scart RGB.

[Anonymous No.2412770]

>>2411645
I've got the exact same mode. Your best bet is for a Mad Cats (Yeah I know..) RGB Scart switcher. They're about £15 on amazon from 3rd party vendors. They work flawlessly with no quality loss.

As for cables, get a BNC to Scart WITHOUT A SYNC STRIPPER. This model does NOT need a sync stripper. The BNC to scart cable comes with the audio broken out so you can either use the monitor's mono speaker or put it into some speakers.

[Anonymous No.2412774]

>>2412770
Sorry, forgot the link. You can get a good BNC to scart cable here: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/

[Anonymous No.2413019]

>>2412770
Me too. The prevalence of these models in the UK makes me think the NHS must have batch ordered them at some point and used them for a while.


Anyway, my order for a VisionMaster 450 somehow went through without issue, I'm getting this 19" monster bought and shipped to my door for just 30 quid.

Now I have to custom build a fucking table out of old wood pallets to hold it up, I don't trust almost 30kg on my flimsy MDF desk.

[Anonymous No.2413035]

>>2411645
Hey anon I'm using this http://www.tvcables.co.uk/cgi-bin/tvcables/RGBS-SCART-ADAPTER.html + rca cables with BNC adapters on the ends + one of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nedis-Valueline-Switchable-SCART-Male-to-3x-RCA-Female-S-Video-Adapter-/311345451764?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item487da292f4 to derive the audio. Hope this helps

[Anonymous No.2413206]

>>2412759
Abandon 50Hz.

Looking forward to getting a Mega EverDrive and sd2snes soon.

Wanna get an NTSC crystal oscillator for my modded PAL Mega Drive though, just to make it true NTSC spec.

[Anonymous No.2413239]

If I get a PVM-20N5U with s-video how can I connect that to my PC? Should I just get an old GPU with s-video and connect it that way? I hear that I should use special software, like Soft15khz or CRU. Would this work at good quality or would I need to buy one of those $200 scaler boxes?

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413253]

>>2413239
>PVM-20N5U
Since S-Video is the best it will do, an older GPU would work well. To my knowledge, CRU and Soft15khz will really only be of use if you're using RGB(VGA). S-Video will just go through the graphics card's encoder and out to your TV/Monitor of choice.

[Anonymous No.2413263]

>>2413253
Thanks anon. This is what I was planning on picking up, what do you think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Trinitron-PVM-20N5U-20-Color-Medical-Monitor-/191573494734?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9aab8bce
I know it'd be hard to see if it has any problems unless you're in person but this is the closest one I can find and I have $75+ to gamble. I just hope that if there is problems a CRT repair shop can fix it.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413275]

>>2413263
For one, the N line is mainly budget models with lower line counts and less features.
In this case, it doesn't even have RGB. Based on those photos, it'd probably have a pretty good picture over s-video.
$75 seems a bit high for s-video only though, ignoring travel time/costs.

For two, pic related. If it was cheaper and had RGB, I'd interested in it myself.

>this is the closest one I can find
Where are you coming from?

[Anonymous No.2413280]

>>2413275
Ohio, near Cleveland. It's about a 2hr30m drive there.

Of course, I haven't actually hunted, I know people recommend to call video companies and hopsitals? Might try that, any tips?

[Anonymous No.2413287]

>>2413280
2h30m drive and $70 doesn't seem worth it for that monitor imo

[Anonymous No.2413290]

>>2413287
Ideally I could get one local with RGB inputs, but again, I've had no luck on ebay or craigslist, and that is a 20inch, I've found 14inches and 8inches but not as big as 20 inches.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413292]

>>2413280
Being entirely honest, I fell into mine thanks to a tip from an anon on /v/, so I don't really have any experience in actually hunting them down.

250-300 miles for the round trip is quite a distance for that price; If you could talk them down heavily it wouldn't be as bad though.


Depending on where it's at in the flats, I don't think it would be that impossible to maybe pop down there and check it out, if the seller was alright with it.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413295]

>>2413292
I meant to add:

As an anon suggested in the last thread(s), if you're going around asking and looking for monitors, your going to want to talk to someone who manages the IT and electronics. The person manning the phones and front desk aren't going to know anything about what could be lurking in the supply rooms around back.

[Anonymous No.2413326]

ayy

[Anonymous No.2413341]

>BVM-D24E1WU x2
>BVM-20E1U
>PVM-20L5
>"I would be willing to accept about $200 each"

w-what do I do. I got a 14N6U for free and I have no idea what these things are worth or if it's worth the upgrade.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413460]

>>2413341
14N6U is a somewhat lower line count(500) SD model with RGB. D24 and L5 are both MultiFormat sets with a considerably higher line count.

D24 is 16:9 with 1000 lines, would probably be insanely sharp for retro, and would do even 7th gen games proud. You NEED the controller for it to actually make much use of it. If it doesn't some with it (BKM-10R), that's going to be an extra $40+.
You also need to make sure that it has the proper option cards. Unlike PVMs, BVMs have interchangeable option cards that change what signals they can display. If you end up buying one without any cards or just say SDI cards, that's another sizable chunk of cash you'll need to drop. This would allow for quite a large number of usable inputs though.

20L5 is 4:3 with 800 lines, 600 if displaying a 16:9 image. Very sharp but not as much as the above. Retro would be wonderful, and would be great for 6th gen too; Wouldn't say it would be bad for 7th either.
Controls are on the monitor, so an external remote isn't necessary. Has the ability to use option cards like the above, but has permanent inputs for composite, s-video, and RGB/Component.

20E1U would have the insanely high line count of the D24, meaning a stupidly sharp image, but is limited to 240p/480i as far as I can tell. It also would need the remote and option cards, if they are not included.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413478]

>>2413460
Either a D24 or 20L5 is my personal goal. That proper 480p+ support is just too good. Having everything from NES to PS3/Wii U all working WELL on a single monitor would be great. Relatively simple use of Dreamcast VGA would be cool too.

As for price, the D24 would probably be worth the 200 if it has at least one option card you would want (something with analog RGB/component) and more so with the 10R;
I'd likely try to talk the price of the 20L5 down some, but I am a cheapass.
This is assuming they're in good condition. The BVMs should have an hour count available in their settings, to give you an idea how much they've been used.

They would without a doubt be an upgrade over what you currently have. Whether you'd make full use of them or have the space to use them is another.
I should note that the D24 is ~110lbs, 20E1 is ~80, and the L5 is just under 70.
Shipping any of them would be a "pleasant" experience for both sender and recipient.

For a bit more information on the 20E1 and 20L5:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/l8imm8lp5bnayse,s0973umfjap06cb,m1srn8x3m6eb3k1,qa7w3dl2pp6x7qz,xp52mgzdd0m9wgd/shared

I don't have the manuals for the D24 around, but the brochure has a bit of information on it and other models.

[Anonymous No.2413512]

>>2413460
>>2413478
damn, thanks for all the info. it'd be a craigslist pickup, so no shipping charges.

here's a pic of the D24's - one of them looks to have a BKM-10R and they both have option cards in the back (though, different options). sounds like one of those would be the best option.

Just curious though, I remember reading that article about how the BVM-20F1 is the best gaming monitor out there. The 20E1 has 1000 lines to the F1's 900. Do you know the difference? Or was that article just not entirely thorough.

[Anonymous No.2413546]

>>2413512
FUcking hella jelly anon. You scored good.

[Anonymous No.2413559]

>>2413512
Hey Anon, if you got both of them, do you think you'd be able to ship one to the UK?

I think even with the shipping cost it would be cheaper than buying one new.

[Anonymous No.2413565]

>>2413559
I can't say I've ever done anything like it before, but I can look into it an let you know.

Sounds like I should pull the trigger on one of these, then.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413572]

>>2413512
Articles don't have to be factually correct, and a statement like that grabs the attention better than "Second/Third/One of the best gaming monitors".

The main difference is the higher lined tube. Lack of 480p+ sours it a bit for my own taste though, but if you plan to use it solely for 240p/480i sources, you're not really going to find a better tube out there.

Of those two D24s, the one on the right looks to have more inputs that would be useful to you. 4 RGB/Component, with at least that center(of the three) "Digital/Analog" card also being able to double as 3 composite inputs in exchange for the 1 RGB. If you could could get it with the 10R and it's in good shape, I'd probably jump on it.

Be sure to bring something to test them with , of course. Wii over component with 240p Test Suite is my go to recommendation, but any game you know the looks of extremely well can work in a pinch.
If you've only got composite to test with, any of the RGB/Component inputs on the Digital/Analog cards should give you a proper composite image.
I can't say whether you'll need 75ohm terminators for the outputs of them though.

I wish something like this would pop up in my area. The Mitsubishi was a nice find, but any of those three would just be fantastic.

[Anonymous No.2413587]

>>2413565
Nah anon, I just did a quick calc with the weight and dimensions of the set (110lb lmao) and its £fuckingexpensive.

Enjoy your TV anon. If you fancy making some cash I'd buy both and hold onto one. They're going for at least $1000 on ebay.

[Anonymous No.2413701]

>>2413341
lmao - 3 hours later in another ad:
>SONY Trinitron PVM-20M2U color video monitor $55.00
>SONY HR Trinitron BVM-20E1U color video monitor $55.00

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413724]

>>2413701
Where do you live that these are popping up like that?

[Anonymous No.2413739]

>>2413724
Big Apple. I've had alerts set up for months and have mostly just gotten 8 inchers or overpriced 14-20's. Seeing these two back-to-back is pretty nuts.

So I guess I'm not sure what to do again. The D24 sounds like something I shouldn't pass up, but $55 is pretty darn cheap. Worth noting the second ad is selling a BKM-10R separately for $40.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413750]

>>2413739
As expected.
So that would push the combined price up to just under $100. Any idea of what option cards it comes with, if any?

The 20E1 is the best SD monitor you could as for, but not having Multiformat support would really be a drag.

Get both, hoard all the CRTs.

[Anonymous No.2413781]

>>2413750
sent over an email asking about it. they're selling off 25 different things, so I'm not sure how many pics they'll feel like taking of one item.

tfw small apartment

[Anonymous No.2413789]

We need to set up a /crt/ exchange service or something. Help disenfranchised anons get a hold of good CRTs by buying and passing them on at price.

[Anonymous No.2413804]

>>2413781

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2413830]

>>2413789
I'd be up for it if I had the dosh available.

>>2413804
2 RGB/Component, not bad.
So long as they're in good condition, any choice you make will be a good one, but it's one that only you can make.

>tfw small apartment
Get rid of your microwave, it's not important.

[Anonymous No.2413893]

>>2413789
I personally might be interested in giving away a couple of extra PVM's that I have to /vr/troopers at some point in the future, but they would have to pick it up themselves and I live in North Dakota

[Anonymous No.2414173]

[Anonymous No.2414340]

Some advice for people living in Berlin, I moved here a few months ago and eBay kleinanzeigen is full of super cheap pvms. I got a 20l2 for 30 euro the other day. Beware though, these devices are super heavy, so bring a cart or a helper to transport them if you plan to use the metro.

[Anonymous No.2414414]

do 4:3 systems look weird at all on 16:9 monitors? I'm just used to the bezel of the monitor cutting off the picture on all sides

[Anonymous No.2414441]

>>2414414
>Left/Right big black bars
or
>We need to go wider
pick your poison

[Anonymous No.2414459]

>>2414441
You forgot:
>No need for the stuff in the upper and lower areas

[Anonymous No.2414469]

>>2414441
so.. do the big black bars look weird? is the picture still cut off in a straight line on either side?

[Anonymous No.2414750]

>>2413295
>The person manning the phones and front desk aren't going to know anything about what could be lurking in the supply rooms around back
Not only that, they'll have no idea what you're talking about, and when you explain they won't know why you want it: in addition to which they'll have no idea what happens to old gear, or even who's responsible for that kind of policy. They'll out you in the too-hard basket.

Ask any switchboard for the IT guys at very least. For a TV-station or production company you want the production guys.

[Anonymous No.2414778]

Fuck me that's some nice stuff going in NYC!

>>2413559
>references older broadcast CRTs that haven't been made in over a decade
>wants to buy one new

I'm assuming you glossed over that bit :)

>>2413893
Mighty white of you, anon.

[Anonymous No.2414793]

>>2413572
Does 240p test suite have any 480i test patterns as well? I've used the 240p ones, but wasn't looking for 480i at the time.

[Anonymous No.2414834]

I'm kinda new to CRTs, I was watching this comparison video earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LC4_4Pr0Nc

And s-video looks kinda strange in motion, like it's leaving behind a bunch of afterimages when compared to composite. Is this normal? Is it just youtube?

See pic, s-video has some kinda weird double-vision when in motion, but composite doesn't.

[Anonymous No.2414842]

>>2414834
Obviously some kind of capture error, I'd say. S-video looks completely fine in motion.

[Anonymous No.2414856]

>>2414842
No doubt capture issue, those look like interlacing artifacts.

[Anonymous No.2415039]

>>2413478
>BVMs should have an hour count available in their settings, to give you an idea how much they've been used
General range of what's a good or bad number? The ones I looked at on ebay range from 18k to 68k, both of which I would have guessed were high.

[Anonymous No.2415081]

>>2414834
my s-video looks awesome on my crt. dunno where this pic comes from

[Anonymous No.2415105]

>>2415039
>from 18k to 68k [hours on a BVM]
Lower is better, assuming nothing else is wrong, but actually anything under 100K is bandied about as what to look for.

[Anonymous No.2415131]

Can the Pi2 do 240p? I was thinking of picking up a Pi2 for streaming and some emulation on my CRT but that's the main sticking point for me right now.

[Anonymous No.2415162]

>>2415131
If I had to guess, I'd say that with a composite out it'd do 480i from the box.

If it uses Linux, then yes it'll almost certainly do 240p. You'll have to learn to insert and modify modelines in Linux though.

[Anonymous No.2415540]

Hi all. Don't know too much about CRTs unfortunately, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me what is causing the bars running vertically along the screen? Can it be fix/adjusted or is it an issue with the TV itself? Thanks

[Anonymous No.2415543]

>>2415540
Sorry, not sure why it decided to flip the image. Here is another picture, apologies for the terrible quality. The TV is a Sony Trinitron KV-DR29M39 (KV-DR29)

[Anonymous No.2415548]

received a 20m4a today. broken in transit.. seller is sending me another one. any point to keeping this for parts or should just chuck it in the dumpster?

black particles can be seen all under the glass and it feels like the tube or something is loose inside.

[Anonymous No.2415558]

>>2415548
FUCK. Spoiler that shit next time.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2415562]

>>2414793
1.7 on the Wii lets you select your output resolution of choice. You can enable the 480p modes as you wish, but I have them turned off.
Moire Moire Moire.

>>2415543
Do you mean the SNES's grey bar?

>>2415548
>and it feels like the tube or something is loose inside
That's the understatement of the century.

I'd open it up and see if there's anything salvage able, circuit board wise, but I certainly wouldn't be hopeful.
I'd also probably take it apart and hoard every last screw or small connector that isn't broken off of it, but that's just me.

[Anonymous No.2415567]

>>2415548
FedEx strikes again!

[Anonymous No.2415587]

>>2415562
Yeah the dark bar with the lighter bars on either side. It's running vertically through the image. Only noticed it when playing mega man x. I've heard that SNESs have an issue with bars running horizontally, wasn't aware if it was vertically as well

[Anonymous No.2415672]

>>2415548
I've got a monitor coming today through UPS, don't scare me man.

[Anonymous No.2415678]

>>2415567
Hope that guy got sued. Sacked ain't good enough. Fuck he should be imprisoned for that shit.

[Anonymous No.2415685]

>>2415678
Don't know about that guy in particular, but there was an incident with a UPS dude who chucked a package above a fence and then proceeded to take a piss right then and there, which ended in him getting sacked.

[Anonymous No.2415874]

What is le point? Who would want to play on a tiny 20 inch screen with that death ray zapping you from point blank

[Anonymous No.2415905]

>>2415874
20 inches is huge, and the X-ray exposure from bathing under CRTs is way less than going through an airport scanner occasionally.

[Anonymous No.2415908]

>>2415548
>>2415567

Hardly Fedex, that's probably an Auschoice set. I'm the guy who ordered the BVM-2010P only to have the pallet it shipped on ripped in half. The set itself might be repairable, or it might not, but i'm hopeful. That picture tho, anon... makes me shiver. How in hell do you mishandle something that badly?

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2415915]

>>2415908
>The set itself might be repairable
I'm not sure how. The glass lamination on the front looks fucked.

[Anonymous No.2415923]

>>2415562
Thanks as always, Kya

[Anonymous No.2415928]

>>2415915
No, MY set might be, the BVM-2010P. His set is a goner, the tube is probably ready to implode.

[Anonymous No.2415934]

>>2415562
>Moire Moire Moire.
>how do you like it?
>how do you like it?

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2415941]

>>2415928
I gotcha now.

Seriously though, what did that poor thing suffer through on its trip?

[Anonymous No.2415981]

>>2415941
kya, if you play though SM:RPG any time soon can you snap some pix of bowser's shitty haiku?

i love CRTs
they do what LCDs don't
deep blacks and light guns

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2415993]

>>2415981
I have been meaning to play it again, so I'll try to remember if and when I get there.

[Anonymous No.2416076]

Real talk

how hard would it be to make an assembly line of new CRT tubes in 2015? is it even possible?

Because starting a small production line of monitors for use in arcade environments seems real fucking nice.

[Anonymous No.2416081]

>>2414469
responding to my own question
not bad

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2416108]

>>2416081
Pretty sure there are extended bezels you can get to actually cover up the unused portion of the tube when using it for 4:3 content.

[Anonymous No.2416132]

>>2416076
Basically impossible. The whole industry was shitcanned when LCDs arrived on the market, and nobody is ever going to go back to "old" stuff.

The market is far too small to ever reach the kind of quality product people are expecting.

Maybe in a post scarcity society where everyone has replicators in their own home, and someone scans in a brand new boxed BVM with the caps replaced.

[Anonymous No.2416237]

>>2416081
which version of alpha 3 is this ?
i have the ps2 anthology which does 480p and that's cool but it's not as nice as 240p on a crt

[Anonymous No.2416239]

>>2416237
sorry, wasn't my pic, so I don't know

[Anonymous No.2416294]

>>2416237
It's the Saturn version.

[Anonymous No.2416393]

>>2416237
>higher resolution is nice but it's not as nice as lower resolution, because lower resolution is more retro and thus better

[Anonymous No.2416449]

>>2416393
>the upscaled ps2 version at 480p is upscaled as opposed to the native 240p original version which is not scaled, but native 240p on a 240p/480i crt.

did i repeat the important words enough for you?

learn how to /vr/

[Anonymous No.2416467]

>>2416449
480 is perfectly divisible by 240. It doesn't make a negative difference. But to answer your question, no, you didn't repeat "native" enough.

>learn how to /vr/
You mean, enjoying and discussing retro games, or masturbating over niggling details as the only true way to experience games--you know, like we did back in the day?

[Anonymous No.2416489]

>>2416467

Not him but games that are supposed to run in 240p just look better when displayed in 240p, not in 480p.

[Anonymous No.2416497]

>>2416489
So much better than people have to ask what resolution it is first.

[Anonymous No.2416521]

>>2416497

There are other reasons for people to ask about that kind of stuff too (like the fact that it wont run as well as a version made to run in 240p), but 240p stuff definitely look better in 240p than 480p.

[Anonymous No.2416534]

>>2416521
Mm-hmm. You've repeated "it's just better" enough times that I'm now convinced.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2416691]

>>2416534
Taking a low res game and line doubling it tends to amplify the amount of aliasing that is perceived by the eye, making or rather placing under a microscope exactly how block-y the graphics actually are.
By leaving it at its native resolution and hopefully with the scanlines that come with that, you break up each line of visual data which results in an optical illusion of there seeming to be more to the picture than what is actually there. To put it in other words, it acts as a form of anti aliasing.
This is especially apparent with games with simpler graphics from say they NES, where as newer more detailed games tend to fare a better.

You have to think less about the actual dimensions that the resolution implies and more how that resolution ends up being displayed.

This is by no means a perfect example, as I'll fully admit that they're from different sources and the original photos were taken from different distances, but the assets themselves are still the same.

[Anonymous No.2416707]

>>2416691
That is a thought-out, thorough, and above all /civil/ response; I applaud you. Best of all, it comes with a visual to back up the argument.

That said, I like the look of the 480p better.

[Anonymous No.2416726]

>>2416707
I am of the personal opinion that 240p looks better, but line-doubled 480p still looks great and is more than acceptable, as long as it's done properly and natively. The resolution is only one part of the CRT experience, after all. With 480p, you still get great contrast, smooth motion, and no lag.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2416735]

>>2416707
Of the two photos, I can't disagree one bit. It was taken at closer up and actually needed to be scaled down to properly match to the 240p example. Otherwise, it does come down a bit to personal taste. I prefer to play stuff at its native res, but line doubling doesn't bother me too much.

Left is from Vampire: Darkstalkers Collection for PS2, hex edited to display in 240p(rather than 480i) over component.
Right is Vampire Chronicle (for Matching Service) for the Dreamcast, over VGA in 480p.

With these two games though, I could be remembering wrong, but I believe that the Dreamcast game suffers from combing/interlacing artifacts where as the PS2 version obviously does not. That's more a fault with the port itself rather than the resolution though.

[Anonymous No.2416814]

>>2415908

yeah it was from auschoice. would you believe the idiots sent it just wrapped in black plastic without any foam/bubblewrap and not even in a cardboard box. no surprise it got smashed.

the reply i got from them was that they sent it on a pallet so shouldnt of been manhandled to get damaged. but common sense says you dont ship a monitor without any protection. anyway, ill see how the replacement turns up.

[Anonymous No.2416835]

>>2416814
What a bunch of amateurs. My first monitor came on a pallet, wrapped in 5 massive sheets of bubble wrap, and arrived with not a dent on it.

My second one came in a big cardboard box, surrounded by empty cardboard boxes as protection. One corner was a little chipped, but that might have been from years of use. Easily glued back on, anyway.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2416992]

>>2416735
>>2416691
Vampire Savior 2, CPS2 from the Wii, 224p.

[Anonymous No.2417065]

>>2415548
save the chassis and the wire going around the monitor, it can be used as degaussing coil

fuck man, i can't bear seeing this shit

[Anonymous No.2417097]

>>2416992
How is CPS2 emulation on Wii? I've always said that Capcom could've made easy money releasing their arcades as VC titles, a la SNK.

[Anonymous No.2417103]

Well, I got one of the BVM-D24's ( >>2413512 )
One on the left, 28k hours, $230 for the monitor, control unit and taxi. Guys were either trying to hustle me or they seriously regretted agreeing to the original price after more offers came in.

I'll try to take some decent phone pics of it when I find a place to put it and fix the geometry. Might be a while. Thanks for the advice all.

[Anonymous No.2417160]

>>2417097
CPS2 stuff is decently emulated

a bloke on arcadeotaku is selling CPS2 multicarts so you can go that route if you already have an A+B board!

[Anonymous No.2417256]

How big of a visual difference is there between PS1 games through s-video and PS1 games through component on a PS2?

And is there any visual difference between PS1 games on a PS1 through s-video and PS1 games on a PS2 through s-video?

[Anonymous No.2417353]

>>2415905
Anyone got that graphics about x-ray levels/ionising radiation that cropped up a while back?

[Anonymous No.2417361]

>>2417353
oops, googled it:

[Anonymous No.2417375]

>>2417361
Well shit, CRT discarded.

[Anonymous No.2417512]

Is anyone familiar with a problem involving a tv's controls simply not doing what they were intended to?
Like, sometimes when I press volume up, the menu gets opened, or the input mode changes.
It's a CRT I picked up off the street (haven't played on a CRT at home in such a long time, feels good to not have input lag, and the picture to actually look like it should).

[Anonymous No.2417652]

Hi all. What line makes SCART switch a set to RGB? The +5V or the +12V?

[Anonymous No.2417657]

>>2417652
pin 16 when 1-3v is applied. 5v or 12v is too much, you need a resistor.

[Anonymous No.2417673]

>>2417657
Thanks!

And not that I can't google it or work it out, but would you know what resistor is best for a +5V line?

[Anonymous No.2417675]

>>2417673
oh, and is JP-21 the same specs, but different pins?

[Anonymous No.2417679]

>>2417673
>>2417675
for 5v, anything between 75 and 180 ohms.
And yeah, JP21 is the same connector wired differently.

[Anonymous No.2417694]

>>2417256

Nobody has an answer?

[Anonymous No.2417710]

>>2417679
I really meant is it the same voltage/activation levels, but different pins...

[Anonymous No.2417712]

>>2417694
Slow board. Besides, all the Euros and US guys are probably asleep or at work. You'll get your answer, just hang on, and be prepared to ask again in a few days if needs be.

[Anonymous No.2417761]

>>2417256
>>2417694

I have never done a proper comparison, but I can tell you that PS1 games through component via a PS2 look really sharp. I imagine s-video would look just fine, provided you have a nice TV.

[Anonymous No.2417803]

Apparently you can mod a 2 chip SNES/SFC to output a better RGB signal. Looks insanely tedious tho. If I ever find some kind of thrashed but working SNES I might try....

[Anonymous No.2417808]

>>2417803
What the fuck am I looking at. This looks like some British guitar amplifier from the 60's. How are those wires not shorting out.

[Anonymous No.2417810]

>>2417808
How else is the RGB going to get to 11?

[Anonymous No.2417815]

>>2417810
Kekd hard.

[Anonymous No.2417821]

>>2417803
Wtf do the diode pairs reversed & in parallel do? Provide some sort of threshold cutoff? Surely a voltage regulator would have been simpler?

[Anonymous No.2417826]

>>2417375

>CRT discarded

What? Shit is less dangerous when used daily for a year than eating 1 banana a week m8.

[Anonymous No.2417835]

>>2417821
over/undershoot.
feel free to try to improve.
http://vaot.mydns.jp/fc/sfc_sharp2.htm

[Anonymous No.2417865]

How is it with widescreen CRT TVs? There is a Sony Wega 32" (KV-32FC60) I might be able to get my hands on. Does it stretch the image?

[Anonymous No.2417879]

>>2417865
Should allow a 4:3 setting. Keep in mind most (all?) of those widescreen Wegas are HD, and not ideal for retro games. Should otherwise be fantastic for tv, movies, and 6th gen+

[Anonymous No.2417936]

>>2417879
Oh ok, thanks. Think I'll bail then. Would've been used for retro consoles. Hoping a p/bvm ever shows up.

[Anonymous No.2417996]

>>2417803
i want to find whoever did this whole soldering job and kick him in the nuts

[Anonymous No.2418013]

>>2417761

>PS1 games through component via a PS2 look really sharp

Is that good or bad?

[Anonymous No.2418015]

I still like the picture on my Thomson even though it's not a known brand like a Trinitron series.

[Anonymous No.2418019]

>>2417996
dood, modding with regular through hole components on such limited surface and height is a fucking nightmare. It's actually pretty good for 100% hand soldering with this amount of components.

[Anonymous No.2418023]

>>2418013
depends on games, but it's generally a good thing. But you might notice the typical PS1 dithering and be bothered forever.

[Anonymous No.2418038]

>>2418015

Thomson made some really nice aperture mask TVs too.

Fun fact : if Thomson made the right decisions in the 60s, they would have been the ones mass producing aperture grid TVs.

[Anonymous No.2418039]

I don't get it. Are crts for retro gaymen just a poorfag thing like people who say ssds aren't worth it or is it a hipster thing like vinyl albums?

[Anonymous No.2418040]

Seen a Trinitron BVM-2011P going for about £200, the guy seems alright and says I could see it work before I buy. Worth investigating?

[Anonymous No.2418042]

>>2418039
A high quality CRT will deliver the best possible picture from original hardware.

They can also be found at any price from free to a hundred bucks.

For some consoles, they're really the only option, like N64, where up-scaling just does not work at all, and the emulators are trash. For others, it doesn't really matter much, like PS1.

Scanline emulation and higher density LCD displays are probably going to replace CRTs in the next 20 years.

[Anonymous No.2418043]

>>2418023

Meh, dithering doesn't bother me. The reason I'm asking is because I'm currently using my PS2 to play PS1 games on my 14" PVM through component, but I'm considering just getting a PS1 for that monitor and using my PS2 with my 28" CRT TV because, it could be my imagination, but PS2 games seem blurry or something on the 14" monitor.

I'm just worried that there's going to be a noticable drop in picture quality.

[Anonymous No.2418047]

>>2418043
Many PS2 games have stuff like flicker-filters that ultimately blur picture. If you have access to some SNK fighting games, many have a focus option that can be set to smooth or normal. Smooth applies a full screen blur, while normal is pretty much pure 480i display, sharper but the interlace flicker can be noticied easier. Few games have that choice tho.

[Anonymous No.2418050]

>>2418043
You're probably pumping 480i over component, and getting slight judder because of it. You need some softmod shit to force 480p, it doesn't work with every game, and I don't think they made many 14" PVMs with 31khz support.

PS1 titles are all 240p with 480i cutscenes and menus. Over S-video or RGB, you'd be unlikely to notice much of a quality decrease.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2418057]

>>2418043
So are you planning to use S-Video with the PS1 on the PVM or on the 28'' TV?
S-Video from the PS1 and PS2 look pretty good.

This really needs to be redone now that I've got a tripod and a better grasp of photo taking.

Composite
SVid
Component

[Anonymous No.2418059]

>>2418047

I have KoF 99 for PS1 and KoF XI for PS2, and I don't think either have that option...Is this just an issue with component, or does it exist with s-video, too?

>>2418050

I know that the monitor doesn't do 480p...I tried setting Tekken 5 to progressive mode, and it didn't work correctly. So, does that mean I'm better off using s-video with the monitor? Would I get the judder?

[Anonymous No.2418060]

>>2418057

I'd be using s-video on the PVM.

[Anonymous No.2418068]

>>2418059
KoF XI has that option, in graphics. Also some games, including many SNK games have progressive scan option (hold X and /\ while booting game).

[Anonymous No.2418070]

>>2418042
Neato. I'd like to try one out if I could hook up my raspberry pi emulator box to one

[Anonymous No.2418073]

>>2418068

Oh...I guess I never noticed that. So, I guess one question remains...Would I still get the mentioned judder and blur and other issues on PS2 games if I switch to s-video? Is that problem still going to exist on the 28" TV through component (I don't think it does progressive...I just got it and haven't brought it into my room yet)?

[Anonymous No.2418074]

>>2418039
Muh SNES Mini.

[Anonymous No.2418076]

Muh SNES Mini.

[Anonymous No.2418081]

>>2418073
The difference would be minimal between component and s-video. And you would benefit from having the PS2 on a bigger display anyway since you would use component.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2418094]

>>2418060
Why not RGB?

[Anonymous No.2418098]

>>2418094

I don't care enough about RGB to be willing to invest the money for it.

[Anonymous No.2418106]

>>2418098
Da fuck is wrong with you?

[Anonymous No.2418112]

Might be picking up a 17" Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 87TXM CRT monitor tomorrow.

The plan is to have a CRT monitor to get a video feed over VGA from a Dreamcast connected to a VGA splitter (the other lead going into a capture card). With this setup I'll be able to have a lagless image from the Dreamcast on one screen, while the second screen can be used to monitor the recording process.

But, I have never used BNC before. If I got a component splitter, could I run one set of component video to my capture card and the other set to the monitor through a component to BNC adapter to have a similar one screen for gameplay/one screen for recording setup for the PS2 over component at 480p? Would this work for PS1 240p/480i games played on the PS2 over component as well?

Basically, can someone give me a crash course on BNC and what it means for retro gaming?

[Anonymous No.2418139]

>>2418039
Who the fuck thinks SSDs aren't worth it?

[Anonymous No.2418147]

>>2418040
That's pretty steep for anything that's not in PERFECT condition. Make sure it has the terminators on the outputs and give it a test run. It needs a PAL decoder card to do PAL (and an NTSC to do NTSC...) But will take RGB and component without needing a card besides the leftmost 5...

I don't have the manual for it, but I do have the one for the BVM-2016P. That's the 600TVL version, where the 2016P is the 900TVL, and has better convergence controls ( i think?).

http://a.pomf.se/jnfzbf.pdf

Things to be aware of:
Without terminators the screen will be nice and bright, but you'll get reflection noise. This is white ripple/ghosting just to the side of any colour border onscreen. With terminators is a better image, and if the screen can't go bright enough the set is kinda worn.

Make sure you get a key for the front drawer, that's where the good controls are.

Make sure the system password is default, or that the guy can supply it. Read the manual above for how to get to that shit- it'll be the same for the 2011P. I'm not sure it can be reset, but a total reset might do it. Give that a go with the guy there if you have to.

[Anonymous No.2418148]

>>2418040
>>2418147
I should add that if it's in really good condition, yeah, it'll be a fricking amazing set. You have to decide if it's worth that kinda money though. It's also like 47KG, and a bitch to move around.

[Anonymous No.2418154]

>>2418070
Not him, but investigate modelines in Linux. You're looking for a 15kHz output via VGA. Then you need either SCART, or an RGB monitor like a PVM.

[Anonymous No.2418156]

>>2418147
Shit, the 2011P is the 900TVL high-spec version. The 2016P is the 600TVL unit.

[Anonymous No.2418162]

>>2418139

"SSDs are placebo technology" is a /g/ meme, no one actually believes it.

[Anonymous No.2418207]

>>2418147
Thanks for the help, it's worth a look at least. Maybe I could make an offer for it.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2418226]

>>2418098
A component cable and a one of these guncon breakouts will get you RGB without needing to go the SCART+Breakout route.
Seems a bit silly to get a PVM and not use RGB though.

>>2418112
>can someone give me a crash course on BNC and what it means for retro gaming
It's a connector. That's all. It's like RCA, except more secure and better grounded.

What your asking is a worded a bit confusing.
That monitor only accepts 31khz+ RGBHV, either over an HD15 "VGA" connector or over 5 BNC connectors. Component "YPbPr" video would need to be fed through a transcoder to turn it into RGB for it to work on that monitor, and only if it was a 480p+ signal.
240p and 480i would NOT work not matter the source.

It would work for PS2 games that support 480p by putting the PS2 into RGB mode(rather than YPbPr). Activating 480p/Progressive Scan when in RGB mode would cause it to output RGsB "Sync on Green" which that monitor appears to support. Games that switch between 15khz and 31khz modes for cut-scenes and the like(Mega Man X8 is one) would go out of sync during said cut-scenes.
PS3 is able to be switched into RGsB system wide, so that would work as well.

The monitor would be nice for Dreamcast and PC usage, but anything retro would require being fed through a scaler/linedoubler.

[Anonymous No.2418294]

>>2418226

Cool, thanks for the info.

I talked the guy into delivering it later tonight, which is nice because I loaned my car to a friend and don't know how else I would get a 50lb monitor to my house.

I was kind of hoping I could do DC VGA and PS2 Component on the same display to save space, but it's not a huge deal.

[Anonymous No.2418558]

>>2418042
>Scanline emulation and higher density LCD displays are probably going to replace CRTs in the next 20 years.

It's gonna be a long while before we get a display truly worthy of replacing CRTs. To match or exceed color accuracy, you need IPS or OLED. To match or exceed contrast, only Plasma and OLED are really capable. To match motion quality, you need 120Hz plus strobing. To get a truly convincing CRT look through shaders, you need at least 4K resolution.

A display that puts all of this together, and with minimal input lag? We're in for a long ride, my friend.

[Anonymous No.2418564]

>>2418558
Don't forget that TV manufacturers aren't advancing tech with retro gamers in mind.

[Anonymous No.2418578]

[Anonymous No.2418614]

>>2418564
I'm not particularly concerned about TVs, since those have always been a crapshoot for gaming. PC monitors is where we will someday find the holy grail.

[Anonymous No.2418989]

>>2418226
>Seems a bit silly to get a PVM and not use RGB though.

PVMs look better even without RGB, so there's that. I've used my MD on TVs and on PVMs through composite, and the difference is very noticable.

[Anonymous No.2419087]

>>2418147
i forget do you put the terminators on the ext sync, im to lazy to get up and check my pvm's

[Anonymous No.2419382]

Posting this here as per Kya's suggestion. My old post is too old to delete, sorry for having this in two places at once. I'm in the DFW area.

So, I have two CRT arcade monitors that I intended to use following repair, but I don't have much interest in messing with a lot of different arcade stuff any more (I already have two other arcade projects to finish) so I probably won't be using them.

One is a WellsGardner, the other is... I don't recall. The non-WG model seemed to work with a decent picture but started to smoke after running for a minute or something. The WG I have no clue. I think I turned it on before I got it and it seemed to work, but please assume it is not working since that was just a short check some time ago and my memory is hazy. I can provide model details if someone thinks they'd be interested.

Both are totally free. You can take one or both. If they aren't taken, I will probably try to get rid of them on another site and if that doesn't work just trash them, but of course I'd rather see someone possibly use them for parts, the tube, or maybe even repair them. If anyone is interested, please post here and I will give out my email.

[Anonymous No.2419676]

What does "TV lines" mean? It that vertical resolution?

[Anonymous No.2419824]

>>2419676

It's the number of vertical lines, the equivalent for aperture grid monitors or dot pitch for shadow mask monitors..

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2419849]

>>2419676
It's a measure of horizontal sharpness, that is, how much information can be correctly and fully resolved on a horizontal plain.
A higher TVL count means more information can discretely resolved horizontally, and a monitor having a higher possible count requires both a higher dot/stripe pitch as well as a gun(s) capable of focusing on a smaller area.
This is why an 800 line or 900 line count PVM/BVM will have thicker scanlines than a 500 or 600 count model, despite that measure only being applied horizontally.

[Anonymous No.2419910]

>>2419849
My nice new CRT monitor has some weird black shadows to the right of everything. At the moment, I'm just hoping it's due to a cheap cable, the shadowing seems fainter at lower resolutions, although that may just be the scaling playing tricks on me.

[Anonymous No.2419913]

I have an opportunity to pick up a PVM 2044QM. I will be playing SNES, Mega Drive and Dreamcast mostly. Is there anything in particular I need to look out for on these models, such as remote included? I'm a total dunce when it comes to CRT.

[Anonymous No.2419915]

>>2419087
There's a spot for a terminator, so i'd say use one and see what happens. I'm not actually sure what reflection on that line would do, as it's a pretty blocky/pulsed signal. If you're running through an amp or having problems, it might pull things back just far enough...?

[Anonymous No.2419920]

>>2419910
Didn't mean to quote, sorry.

Here's an image of what I mean. Note the white boxes extending well past their boundaries, you can't see the text very well but it's pretty bad.

Hope this isn't a monitor for the skip, and this is just a shitty cheap cable issue. Anyone seen this before?

[Anonymous No.2419924]

>>2419913
No remote needed for those. No on-screen display (OSD) either, so make sure it's working with the front dials unless you want to open it up. You'll want to feed it RGB to get the best picture (it won't do component, i don't think), so you have to both figure out how to get that out of your consoles, and into the PVM.

[Anonymous No.2419926]

>>2419920
Some anon called this a few weeks ago... can't remember what he termed it. He was saying it's to do with white dots on a set with older capacitors, IIRC.

[Anonymous No.2419930]

>>2419924
OK thanks. There's also a PVM14N6E near me, if I don't get the 20 would this be a good alternative?

[Anonymous No.2419935]

>>2419926
I found a better cable, it's totally fine. Now I need to get a DVI-I to VGA adapter that isn't one of those shitty extenders, I don't have enough room at the back of my PC them.

Glad it was an easy fix. Remember kids, don't buy poor quality analog cables. They can make you shit your pants and think you bought a broken set.

[Anonymous No.2419954]

>>2419935
As an aside, this thing is fucking beyond beautiful. I'd forgotten what a decent CRT monitor looked like after a decade of LCD shit.

The blacks are obscene.

[Anonymous No.2419975]

>>2419930
>PVM14N6E
It'll be pretty good. Smaller, obviously. Still takes RGB. No way is it worth more than about $30-$40 US though.

https://cvp.com/pdf/sony_nseries_brch.pdf

[Anonymous No.2419990]

Could i connect my ps1 to my trinitron monitor (with bnc & vga inputs) via ps1 -》ps1/male scart cable -》 female scart/ bnc cable -》monitor? Or would i need something in between. I apologize for my ignorance in advance.

[Anonymous No.2419998]

>>2419990
No. All retro consoles up to the DC put out 15khz stuff, PC monitors need 30khz+ stuff. A PS1 puts out RGB + CSync, a PC monitor requires RGB + Hsync + Vsync.

You'll need some kind of upscaler to connect the two, and at that point, you're better off just picking up a cheap 15khz display like a PVM. Dreamcast should look great over VGA though.

[Anonymous No.2420008]

>>2419975
Nice. Not really bothered too much about size if I miss out on the 20" screen. Thanks for your help though, I'll report back once I've gathered the necessary cables!

[Anonymous No.2420013]

>>2419998
Thank you so much. That makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.2420123]

My NES looks like shit compared to my full RGB SMS and I'm thinking of upgrading and modding the NES. What's the best way to go about doing this?

Also
>tfw no good mp3 rip of Heaven or Hell

[Anonymous No.2420151]

>>2420123
NESRGB
PAL or NTSC NES ? Honestly it would be a waste to fit a NESRGB on a 50hz NES...

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2420164]

>>2419998
>a PC monitor requires RGB + Hsync + Vsync.
Not explicitly. Some monitors will accept composite sync on H rather than requiring them be separate.

For example >>2418112
Sync would still need to be at the proper frequency though.

>>2419913
>>2420008
It should be noted the 2044QM will accept RGB or Component where the 14N6E is limited to RGB.
I'm also pretty sure the 2044 has a higher line count than the N6, so that may be something to consider as well.

[Anonymous No.2420212]

>>2420123
Isn't NES emulation close to frame perfect these days? NESRGB costs retard money, and is a real hassle to install.

[Anonymous No.2420243]

>>2420212
that's not the point.

[Anonymous No.2420647]

How many people here have modded RGB into their old TVs? I just got my hands on a Trinitron and kinda want to try, but on the other hand I can just convert RGB to component and use that instead.

[Anonymous No.2420668]

[Anonymous No.2420673]

>>2411369
I always had one of these. TBH it's the only reason while I still have a CRT, to watch videotapes I made.

[Anonymous No.2420876]

>>2419849

Okay, so I just picked up a monitor that's only 450 TVL. Would it, for example, have trouble properly displaying 480i||p content?

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2421063]

>>2420876
It'd be able to display whatever the monitor is designed to take. My Megaview, I believe, has a line count somewhere between 600 and 800, but will accept at least up to 1280x1024 as per its spec sheet. There's a 9'' BVM spec'd at 450 TVL(340 in 16:9) but will accept up to 1080i just like any other Multiformat model.
If the monitor is made to take 480i, it'll be able to display 480i just fine. The same goes for 480p or any other resolution that it may support.
Whether it'll be able to completely resolve every last detail of a given signal completely is a different matter, but 450 would be fine for just about anything retro.
CRTs and horizontal resolution are weird.

>>2418578
I'm still upset my save deleted itself.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2421070]

>>2421063
>completely.. ..completely
Bah

[Anonymous No.2421208]

>>2421063
change battery

[Anonymous No.2421269]

Does an emulator on a crt look just as good?

[Anonymous No.2421378]

>>2421269
Depends on how you set it up.

[Anonymous No.2421736]

So, I decided to randomly search for CRT vs LCD latency after watching MKX matches and I got into a forum discussing it which had an interesting test. I did it to see how my cheap LCD compares against my CRT monitor and the result was quite obvious: there's virtually no difference. My LCD monitor has a response time of 5ms, fyi. So, frankly, unless we're discussing really early models, this IS IRRELEVANT because there's no difference that could ever be perceived by the human eyes. The test was posted by the user philscomputerlab in the VOGONS forum- http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42713&sid=b9fefd42878a1a97712e54b3de8ffac9&start=20 -. This is it:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94628483/Reaction%20Tester%20for%20VOGONS/index.html

The top result is from my awfully cheap LCD and the bottom one from my CRT.

[Anonymous No.2422073]

>>2421736

Add to this 5ms latency the time your LCD monitor is taking to convert a 160*120/256*224/320*240 analog video signal to a digital signal then upscale to it's native resolution and you have the effective lag you get when playing old games on these kinds of display
Of course you wont have this much lag when you're using a digital video signal through DVI-D at the native resolution of your monitor, but that's not the kind of stuff we're talking about here though..

[Anonymous No.2422078]

>>2421736
Hopefully everyone can have lagless displays, either right now or in the future. I have a great CRT for old games, and I am perfectly happy with it.If others are happy with an LCD, awesome! It isn't a battle.

[Anonymous No.2422081]

>>2421736
Monitor ? TV ? LCD Monitors usually fare decently. It's LCD tvs that induce lag because of processing, and the worst thing is many times the processing isn't totally removable. This especialy happens with HDMI, if tv has VGA input used, for some reason there's no processing and the lag is much better.

[Anonymous No.2422107]

>>2422081
This. The signal processing is done by your graphics card, and the monitor has a pretty easy time.

Feed in a lower resolution signal with GPU scaling turned off to see how shitty the image scaling is.

That's the issue with TVs and game consoles. The shitty 720p signal has to be upscaled to 1080p by the monitor.

[Anonymous No.2422138]

Is there a list of games that use dithering?

[Anonymous No.2422146]

>>2418112
>>2418226

I got ahold of the monitor. Set me back a whopping $5, plus the couple bucks I threw to the guy for delivering a 48lb monitor to me.

It's absolutely gorgeous. I forgot how nice DC games look on a CRT monitor.

The thing now is to get a larger desk.

[Anonymous No.2422151]

>>2422138

Too many to even brother making one.

[Anonymous No.2422289]

>>2421269
Depends. Emu outputing 240p to a crt tv will look pretty much the same.
Emu outputing 480p + scanlines to a crt monitor won't be as good because monitor phosphors have much less bleeding

[Anonymous No.2422348]

>>2420164
Does the 2044QM take component? The 2043MD definitely doesn't, and the 2054QM definitely does...

The 2044 is 600TVL, and the N^ models about 550TVL

>>2420668
Kek

[Anonymous No.2422349]

>>2422348
*N6 models

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2422357]

>>2421208
It's not the battery. It will hold a save, just one of my recent ones deleted itself.

>>2422348
http://www.mediafire.com/view/7083l3y054pn82l/Sony_PVM_204_QM_Service_Manual.pdf
Analog RGB/Component

[Anonymous No.2422596]

>tfw found a guy selling this
>tfw no money to buy

[Anonymous No.2422601]

>>2422596
):

[Anonymous No.2422676]

>>2422596
>>2422601

>LCD

No thanks
Also, this is the CRT thread m8, go post it elsewhere

[Anonymous No.2423094]

I just got a CRT today and I have a quick question. It was just a free one that I got for picking it up as the owner died, but on the back I noticed there were component, SVID and RGB. I'd like to hook my computer up to the TV for playing old PC games, emulators, or even current PC games that run in low 4:3 resolution (i.e. Touhou.) My GTX 660 has a display port, HDMI and an extra DVI not in use, so I know I'll need some sort of converter, but what should I look for for best quality, one that will hook up to the component, SVID, or the RGB? Also any other considerations I should keep in mind?

[Anonymous No.2423107]

>>2423094
I'm curious what model it is

[Anonymous No.2423128]

>>2423107
RCA 27V530T
Pic Related.

Not great, but it'll do.

[Anonymous No.2423132]

>>2423128
durr

[Anonymous No.2423282]

Just got an HD 27" Sony WEGA, anyone have any recommended video settings? For what it's worth I'm using it for a PS2 with S-video cables and a Wii with Component Cables.
I prefer a sharp picture with good color, if that makes a difference.
I already changed the aspect ratio from 16:9 (like in pic related) to 4:3.

[Anonymous No.2423307]

[Anonymous No.2423502]

>>2423282
Bumpin

[Anonymous No.2423559]

>>2418578

What is this, a BVM-20F1?

[Anonymous No.2423570]

>>2423559
BVM-D24E1WU
gotta find a table or something for it so I can actually set it up and play some games

[Anonymous No.2423587]

>>2422289

I'm not so sure bleeding is necessarily a good thing. As long as the picture is bright and vibrant, 480p + scanlines on a CRT is good.

[Anonymous No.2423605]

>>2423587
Problem is, just inserting lines literally halves the brightness, which can be a problem on a lot of monitors. Some Mitsubishi and NEC monitors come with a SuperBright mode that compensates for this, however.

[Anonymous No.2423752]

>>2423587
color bleeding and blooming is what softens picture. They're essential elements of crt tv display and are what makes using crt tv worth.
Using crt monitor you lose them because of the much more tinier and quicker phosphors.

[Anonymous No.2423928]

[Anonymous No.2423930]

[Anonymous No.2423949]

No idea why a person wouldn't rather see the pixels all crisp like via computer emulation. No offense. I realize it's all preference. But I don't think it's how the games were really meant to look. Is it just a nostalgia kick?

[Anonymous No.2423979]

>>2423949
That's a fine opinion to have. That's not the opinion we in /crt/ have, most of the time. Whatever you like.

[Anonymous No.2423983]

>>2423949
Whether you like softer pixels with scanlines or not comes down to preference. That is but one aspect of CRT tech when it comes to retro games. Motion, responsiveness, colors, and contrast are just as important, and all are areas where newer tech matches up against CRTs in maybe one or two.

[Anonymous No.2423996]

>>2423132
>>2423128
>>2423094
Are you sure your CRT can take RGB video? The user manual says that it takes composite, s-video, and component, but not RGB.

Anyways, If your video card's DVI port is DVI-I port, then it can output VGA. If that is the case, then you have two options AFAIK:

1. If your card is compatible, there's software like Soft-15KHz that can make the video card output 15KHz RGB. You'd then have to have a VGA adapter that would let you connect to the RGB on the CRT. If the CRT doesn't have RGB, then you'd also need an RGB to Component converter.

2. Get an Extron VSC 500 or one of the similar Extron converters. You can feed it VGA video and then set it to output RGB or Component video. They usually cost around $100 though.

[Anonymous No.2424001]

>>2423949
You could argue that the games were developed with CRT in mind and were designed accordingly or you could argue that the designers would want their work to look as good as possible which in the modern day could be emulated to remove the aliasing. I'm more of the latter but I'd love to get my hands on bvm and be proven wrong.

I really love the closeups of the crt screens that the people in this thread post and keeps me interested in this thread though I don't really post that much.

[Anonymous No.2424027]

>>2423996
>1. If your card is compatible, there's software like Soft-15KHz
That card will need a dongle from arcadeshop.de. CRU might be able to override EDID, mb try that first for VGA/RGB?

>>2423949
>pixels all crisp
3d games are often graphically ok, but the environments can look kinda empty and weird. N64 does best, IMO

[Anonymous No.2424169]

>>2423949

Because games were made to look a certain way when the pixels were blended together.

[Anonymous No.2424192]

>>2415131
>>2415162
Welcome back to the 1990s, enjoy hand-hacking your xorg.conf.

[Anonymous No.2424204]

There are bum loads of Trinitrons on gumtree in London. Would something like this be suitable for retro gaming on? People are literally giving them away.

This one is a KD-36NX200U

[Anonymous No.2424208]

>tfw 65 inch dlp on one wall and two lcd monitors on my desk so there is literally no room for a crt for retro gaymen

[Anonymous No.2424209]

>>2424208
>tfw 2 crts in 5m2 room
this is suffering
>>2424204
36" are all 4:3 right? If its SD Crt then go for it
aslo enjoy your back pain

[Anonymous No.2424210]

>>2424204
Try to find a 4:3 one and make sure it has scart

[Anonymous No.2424216]

>>2424209
No it's 16:9 afaik, according to the manual anyway. I wish I could get this, I'm in between houses at the moment.

Who knows, if its still there in a week or so I might just go pick it up, put it next to my PVM.

[Anonymous No.2424218]

>>2424210
This is in the UK, so it has 2 RGB SCART inputs along with the usual others.

[Anonymous No.2424220]

Is scart a meme connection? I've never seen it in my life in person. USA btw

[Anonymous No.2424224]

>>2424220
developed countries only

[Anonymous No.2424225]

>>2424220

Oh, it's real son.

[Anonymous No.2424234]

>>2411261
Did this just start? Are you sure your R isn't cranked up too high?

[Anonymous No.2424280]

>>2424218
Honestly, you're better off just waiting for a PVM to pop up on eBay for cheap. You can get them delivered for 50-70 quid, and the picture is way nicer than consumer sets.

I'd consider buying one of those big 16:9 sets if it supports HD resolutions for 6th gen, but they're not great for retro.

[Anonymous No.2424282]

>>2424220

[Anonymous No.2424382]

>>2424234
It's been doing this since I got it about half a year ago. I've tried adjusting the R cutoff and gain but the effect stays regardless.

[Anonymous No.2424406]

>>2424224

Sorry, I couldn't read your post because it was displayed at 50Hz

[Anonymous No.2424415]

>>2424406

Can we leave /pol/int/ shit out ?
However anon let's not forget the existence of PAL60 and that scart can visualize with no problem ntsc colors and 60Hz.

[Anonymous No.2424417]

>>2423282
Anyone?

[Anonymous No.2424640]

>>2424169
>It's OK when Sega does it.

[Anonymous No.2424734]

>>2424415
>NTSC SNES with euroscart

[Anonymous No.2425540]

>>2423282
Bumpity

[Anonymous No.2425560]

>>2425540
>>2423282
Oh yeah I also noticed some bleeding or whatever. The brighter the display and color, the more "bleeding" occurs. Its the worst with whites. It's also more severe the closer you get to the corners and edge of the TV.
Anyone know a way to fix this without minimizing brightness?
Pic related, I tried to get a picture of it.
The "World Map" part is close to the edge of the screen and more blurred, but its kinda hard to tell.

[Anonymous No.2425617]

>>2423996
How is vga not rgb? I appreciate it's not component but I've used many passive vga -> rgb dongles.

[Anonymous No.2425697]

>>2425617
RGB usually refers to 15khz RGB+composite for sync used by tvs.
Some PC monitors have BNC inputs labeled as RGBHV, but it's essentially the same as VGA, and is 31khz. Finding monitors that accept both 15 and 31 khz is next to impossible.

[Anonymous No.2425762]

>>2425560
Bad corners with colors not lining up is most likely a convergence issue. I think some monitors might have convergence controls but I don't know how well even those work. Otherwise you need to mess with putting magnets on the back of the tube. Look up convergence adjustment monitor or something for more info. Most likely you will just learn to live with it.

[Anonymous No.2425774]

>>2425762
Oh, it can also be a focus issue as well. Your display might have focus adjustments easily accessible or you might have to open it up and adjust a potentiometer.

[Anonymous No.2425829]

Hello /crt/

perhaps this is blasphemy here but I was wondering if playing games (on my NES) would suffer any sort of problems on a rear-projection tv?

I'm not at all familiar with rear-projection tvs so this could be an incredibly poorly informed understanding but its comparable to using a real projector right? I guess, really, my closest experience to gaming on a rear projection tv is probably playing N64 on an actual projector which seemingly looks quite nice.

I have a chance to get a 68" rear projection tv (which has a huge assortment of inputs including coaxial for my NES) for $100 from my uncle and am trying to gauge if it would be worth it.

tl;dr input on rear projection tvs?

pic unrelated but pretty neat

[Anonymous No.2425849]

>>2425829
It would work just fine. The games are designed to be played on any tv. Not a specific model/style. Anyone that says otherwise is a retard.

[Anonymous No.2425854]

>>2425829
As long as you aren't primarily playing light gun games, you'll be perfectly fine.

[Anonymous No.2425857]

>>2425849
>The games are designed to be played on any tv.

Except, you know, rear-projection TVs. Just about every video game manual since they've been out has a warning about it.

[Anonymous No.2425872]

>>2411645
Hi, PVM-20L5 owner here, from last thread. I'm the one who got the free PVM and the free smaller panasonic screen.

Here's what I did instead of all that SCART nonsense. More pics and internal pics to follow.

Basically, addded four RCA jacks to the back of the console, because while you CAN get RGB out of the multi-out port, that seems to require SCART and additional cables and monies.

As another benefit of this, I don't have to worry about putting capacitors on the cable or anything - they are inside the console itself. And with easily locally available RCA to BNC adapters (I live in a place where a store bought out Radio Shack's stock, and we also have Sweetwater Sound close by), I was able to connect this to my monitor extremely cheaply.

[Anonymous No.2425874]

>>2425857
Isn't that just to caution against burn-in issues though? Can't that be avoided by just not leaving the TV on while a game is paused for extended periods of time?

[Anonymous No.2425876]

>>2411369
No, those are cool, but usually lack most inputs.

I opted for an apple IIe composite monitor when given a pick, because the IIe has a better screen.

[Anonymous No.2425881]

>>2425874
Yep, it's burn-in. Also the RPTV's are really really 'burn out' prone. Awesome when they work, though, and the lens can burn things really well if you take it out.

[Anonymous No.2425887]

>>2425872
Here's an image of it with a game before I get into taking it apart.

[Anonymous No.2425889]

>>2425874
Yes, that's exactly what they're warning about.

>Can't that be avoided by just not leaving the TV on while a game is paused for extended periods of time?

No. Remember, video games, especially old ones, have HUDs that are on-screen for the majority of the game. All CRTs can potentially suffer from burn-in but rear-projection TVs were very, very susceptible to it. Play a game in one sitting for too long and you might be seeing MARIO at the top left of your screen for the rest of its life.

[Anonymous No.2425914]

>>2425887
Here's a little wiring.

There are a lot of capacitors because I could only find one 220uf cap - to get the other RGB lines to the same level (cutting out 1V DC), I ran smaller caps in parallel: two 100uf's and two 10uf's in the place of one 220uf capacitor.
You are supposed to put a 220uf capacitor on the R, G, and B lines between them and the TV somewhere.
Due to using four in the place of one in two of the three cases, I ended up adding 9 capacitors. But you can do it with 3 if you have 3 220uf's.
Since larger caps are almost always polarized, ALWAYS put the positive leg toward the console and negative leg toward the TV.

[Anonymous No.2425924]

>>2425914
A bit unrelated to your mod, but does the 20L5 have any pots to adjust geometry on the inside? Mine has some slight inward curve warping that I can't fix digitally in the menu for the life of me and I'm too much of a baby to open it and probably kill myself painfully.

[Anonymous No.2425939]

>>2425924
Not opened mine up...

Can you try the service menu? On the 20L5 at least you hit the 'MENU' key, and then WHILE IN THE MENU hold 'ENTER' and 'DEGAUSS' together. May be different on yours.

Besides that, there probably are on the inside... there have been on every CRT I've ever owned made after 1990. But I'd try the OSD first, and the pots if the OSD doesn't go far enough either way to fix your problem.

I'll open it up and check sometime.

[Anonymous No.2425941]

>>2425914
Anyway, another pic.

Here's the pinout to get the signals from. Note that in PAL regions, the sync signal isn't there. Instead there is a 12V line.

Not sure how PAL consoles sync, but I suppose you could always get a sync stripper IC from Texas Instruments as a 'sample' for free, and use that to extract a sync signal from your composite output.

I used the RF modulator's "GND" line for ground, because it was getting crowded over in the Multi-Out port area, and because it was clearly labeled as ground. I tested with a continuity tester to be sure first, though.

To clarify, the image attached is actually from a N64 with the RGB line labels added.

[Anonymous No.2425946]

>>2425939
Oh, duh, that's the SNES and not the insides of the monitor in your picture, nevermind.

That picture of mine -is- the service menu, though. There's no combination of configurations that doesn't just fuck it up further. It infuriates me trying to fix it because I can never get it to look just right and it's blatantly apparent how bad it is when things start scrolling vertically. I've messed around with it for countless upon countless hours and that picture is the best I can get it.

[Anonymous No.2425954]

>>2425941
I ran wires out of there, up to the capacitor board. In my case, I used some solid core CAT5 cable for everything because I have about 25 meters of it (long story).

you don't HAVE to use a board, I just did because I was putting some capacitors in parallel and the leads weren't very long due to me recycling them from boards taken from washing machines, broken amplifiers, etc..
Anyway, be sure polarity is right. Take the output from that and run it to some RCA jacks.

[Anonymous No.2425958]

>>2425954
whoops, no pic.

>>2425946
scrolling vertically? adjust vertical hold.
I actually have a really nice old apple monitor that makes that control a dial on the back :)

[Anonymous No.2425967]

>>2425958
Chrono Trigger had beautiful graphics.

[Anonymous No.2425976]

>>2425958
Actually, I think the Vertical Hold is internal.
>>2425946
I can say that if you are careful most CRT's won't actually kill you :)

BE CAREFUL, but if you discharge it, you're mostly safe. Be wary of large capacitors.

I'll crack mine open and see what we're dealing with. I've worked on two CRT's before.

[Anonymous No.2425984]

>>2425958
>scrolling vertically? adjust vertical hold.

It's not that, I've tried, assuming that's what V C LIN is. You can kind of see the issue if you scroll up and down in my 240p Suite picture and looking directly at the left side of the service menu. It kind of goes in a wave pattern. Messing with the configs either puts that "wave" either on the left, right, or middle, but I can't get rid of it entirely. Once I think I do, it's on the other side, and it's so tough to do by myself because you have to sit directly in front of the monitor to press the buttons and the problems aren't really apparent until you're sitting a comfortable distance away. Hurts my eyes sitting so close and checking a grid while I'm messing with it, too.

>>2425976
How exactly do you discharge a television or monitor? I've hold that they hold a charge even if they've been unplugged for several years. I've taken apart plenty of electronics before but I've never dealt with a CRT, mostly because of horror stories.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2425997]

>>2425941
>Not sure how PAL consoles sync, but I suppose you could always get a sync stripper IC from Texas Instruments as a 'sample' for free, and use that to extract a sync signal from your composite output.
Don't really see the point in doing that unless a given monitor needs pure csync. Cvid for sync is the standard for SCART and Luma would work as well.

[Anonymous No.2426017]

>>2425997
In that case, I guess hooking composite to the sync line would work fine.

>>2425984
Ah. is it actually like that? or more like a slight ripple on the side of the screen? I have a computer monitor trinitron that has something that looks like 'shimmering' on the far left edge.

And I opened up the CRT, saw three trimmers that based on their positions are NOT meant to be adjusted. You'd have to remove the CRT to get to them. So no, for all intents and purposes, the 20L5 does not have internal trimmers.

[Anonymous No.2426020]

>>2426017
P.S. if you do need pure csync, the TI part number is LM1881.

[Anonymous No.2426042]

>>2425984
you take a flat screwdriver WITH A PLASTIC HANDLE, and a wire of some kind. use a binderclip or alligator clip to clip the wire to the shaft of the screwdriver, and clip the other end to the chassis somewhere. On the last TV I did, there was a metal spring connecting to the chassis, which is usually the metal things at the corners of the front of the CRT, up near the bezel and everything. Anyway, I clipped to the bezel.

In the pic, it's a little hard to see, but I have the alligator clip hooked to the chassis.

Be sure NOT to use an antistatic mat or anything while doing this. That mat is BAD in this case.

With this done, being SURE you aren't touching anything metal, slip the screwdriver under the suction cup on the tube. push the screwdriver forward until you hit the metal thing at the center of the suction cup, and you will hear a SNAP if the tube has been on recently. otherwise, make sure you hit it repeatedly.
Wait a few seconds after doing this, and do it again with the screwdriver. You may hear a second 'snap', softer this time. It's discharged some extra from the capacitors. Anyway, with this done, it's not far more safe (though still not 100% safe) to work on. Be careful and don't ground yourself to something while working, and don't put your finger/a screwdriver across relays or capacitor leads.

[Anonymous No.2426051]

>>2426042
I DID NOT CLIP TO THE BEZEL. THE BEZEL IS PLASTIC.

Don't know what I was thinking. I clipped to the spring.

[Anonymous No.2426058]

>>2426017
>Ah. is it actually like that? or more like a slight ripple on the side of the screen?

It's more like a ripple across the entire screen that only becomes noticeable when the screen scrolls vertically. Playing an RPG or anything else that lets you go up and down freely is a bummer. If you scroll up and down in this picture you can kind of see it in action if just looking at the picture doesn't show you the issue. Not very noticeable when playing 3D games, though. It could be a lot worse, but it's really a shame.

>And I opened up the CRT, saw three trimmers that based on their positions are NOT meant to be adjusted. You'd have to remove the CRT to get to them. So no, for all intents and purposes, the 20L5 does not have internal trimmers.

Oh, oh well, thank you for checking! Guess it's just a matter of fiddling around with the service menu for who knows how much longer.

>>2426042
Thanks for this, either way, I'll keep it in mind if I ever decide to delve into goofing around with one someday.

[Anonymous No.2426072]

>>2426042

Please don't use a hodgepodge of binder clips (which may not make contact) and other crap. While a color CRT is unlikely to kill you, it's bite is not something I'd want some random kid on the internet to experience because of bad or hasty information.

If you need to do it the cheap way, get a simple alligator test lead and an exposed metal bodied flat-head screwdriver.

Clip one end of the lead to the screwdriver, the other to either A: The metal frame of the chassis if working on an arcade chassis or B: the aquadag spring/strap.

Work the flathead tip under the anode cup and touch the clip inside. You'll hear a spark, assuming what you're working on doesn't have bleeders in it already.

Don't trust the first discharge. Wait 10 seconds and try again. Repeat this until you don't hear sparking anymore.

Anode cup should be safe to remove at this point. 99.9% of them are forked and only require compression to remove from the anode hole.

Some notes:
Don't touch any part of the exposed metal of the screwdriver while doing this. Average voltage in a color CRT is right about 22kv and packs one heck of a bite.

Clip the alligator onto the screwdriver as high on the shaft as you can, to give you some room to manuver the flat of the screwdriver under the anode cup.

Don't scratch the glass or dig under the cup. It's silicone and will lift up with gentle prodding.


Other alternatives are permanently attaching a wire to the screwdriver. You can grind the plating off, drill a hole through the center of the shaft, then solder the wire permanently. Bob Roberts has an excellent writeup on this.

If you find yourself in CRT's all the time, do the smart thing and invest in a proper CRT HV Probe. Not only are they useful diagnostic and safety tools, they can properly (slowly) bleed down your CRT without all this bodging.

[Anonymous No.2426097]

>>2425560
If your whites are 'blooming' you need to turn the brightness/ contrast down

[Anonymous No.2426106]

>>2425872
I did this with my consolised MVS. Not so good if you want to use a switcher box as the amount of cabling gets crazy and you will have to mod it into every console you get.

[Anonymous No.2426116]

>>2424382
The line droop can be a sign the capacitance is under spec somewhere, so you might be right with that guess.

[Anonymous No.2426126]

>>2425967
>Chrono Trigger -HAS- beautiful graphics.
Fixed.

[Anonymous No.2426293]

sup /crt/,

I recently inherited a fuckhuge CRT projector for literally nothing (save the rugburn on my knuckles from moving it). apparently it had a bulb out. I figured those wouldn't be too hard to replace. upon turning the TV on, I immediately noticed the lack of red. cool, so the red bulb is out. guess I'll open the TV and get a part number. so I take the big back off (fairly painless, actually). and my little shit cat sits on the remote, turning the TV on (I know, I know). I hear it fire up, and pic related happens.


so the bulb very clearly isn't burnt out, unless projector TV bulbs operate differently or something. any ideas? it's a Zenith ZR56Z83R. other than the color being off, the picture quality itself is pretty good.

[Anonymous No.2426296]

>>2426293
Wow, I haven't seen one of those in ages. Those used to be the shit. Get yourself a waterbed and live the dream , 1979 style.

[Anonymous No.2426328]

>>2426296
seriously. It's fucking huge.

[Anonymous No.2426361]

>>2426293

It's going to cost you more to replace that bulb than it would cost to buy a Trinitron or something. To each their own.

[Anonymous No.2426368]

>>2426361
but the bulb clearly works. that's why I'm curious.

also, according to https://www.partstore.com/Part/LG+Electronics+Incorporated/LG+Electronics%2fZenith/RZ56Z83R/LG+Electronics+Incorporated/LG+Electronics%2fZenith/A17552/New.aspx

a new lens and housing is about 130$. I'll eat that to have a fuckhuge TV to play retro on.

[Anonymous No.2426372]

>>2426368
My first assumption is there's some kind of heat sensor in or around each bulb to shut it off if it gets too hot, and the red one is malfunctioning. I'd check all the solder joints and caps, just in case.

[Anonymous No.2426375]

>>2426368

For one, I think you're romanticizing the idea of having a huge TV a bit too much. There's a reason most of the diehards in this thread use 14"-20" TVs. Secondly, rear-projection TVs are notorious for having fuzzy/blurry visuals, low brightness levels, awful viewing angles, and a litany of other problems in addition to the unreliability of the hardware itself. For $130 I could buy a really nice Sony CRT and a blowjob.

[Anonymous No.2426391]

>>2426375
>and a blowjob.
We're still in a recession, eh?

[Anonymous No.2426395]

>>2426368
>>2426372

I was gonna say; looks like an overheat/short type situation to me. Good luck anon.

[Anonymous No.2426462]

>>2426116
Ok, I may try a cap kit then. I guess I just needed some hope that my tube wasn't irreparably broken.

[Anonymous No.2426520]

How good are 14" sharp lapiz TVs?

[Anonymous No.2426812]

>>2426058
What are you getting your cross-hatch signal from?

[Anonymous No.2426813]

>>2426072
No shit. I did extensive conductivity tests on them.

And this is exactly what I said to do, BTW. so I don't know why you're repeating it.

[Anonymous No.2426818]

>>2426126
I didn't know square was still making SNES games.

[Anonymous No.2426820]

>>2426375
Main reason for 14 to 20 inch is that those are the largest sized PVMs.

[Anonymous No.2426828]

PVM-20L5 again.

[Anonymous No.2426834]

>>2426828
and one last image, because I just watched that seizure episode of pokemon on it.

[Anonymous No.2426949]

>>2426072
also, you didnt notice, but those are test leads.

[Anonymous No.2427043]

>>2415548
also, save the flyback transformer.
Had the same thing happen to me a few months ago when I had my pvm shipped.
DOA
>board has san andreas fault running through middle
>ship me another
>luck out, it works.

I stripped the everloving fuck out of that old one's broken board. Caps, flyback, button microswitches, ICs, connectors, everything.
Keep it, replacement parts can keep your unit running for a long time, and you ain't gonna find 'em an easier way. learn 2 desolder.

pic related, was the board.

[Anonymous No.2427180]

yo /crt/, I have a spare composite cable for my wii and a fuckload of pic related

is there any way i could mash together an RGB scart cable ?

[Anonymous No.2427201]

>>2427180
Any reason in particular you want RGB from your Wii instead of Component?

[Anonymous No.2427204]

>>2427201
my bad, misread composite as component. still, component wii cables are pretty damn cheap.

[Anonymous No.2427206]

>>2427201
I plan on buying actual cables for RGB SCART & component but I was wondering if there was a way I could make some ghetto ones with what I have.
Allthough the output isn't too bad right now over composite.
It's for my trinitron upstairs that has RGB scart.

[Anonymous No.2427209]

>>2427180
I highly doubt it that the (official) Wii connector has all pins to make it possible.
Also, the best SCART cables are about 10mm thick and double screened (audio, video lines have their own separate shielding plus another shield which surrounds all wires).

You can something similar what I did:
Buy a ultra cheap cable for your Wii which has all pins and open the plug which goes to the Wii. Then solder the cutoff SCART cable to the Wii connector, don't forget to add correct components in between.

[Anonymous No.2427223]

>>2427209
Best I don't fuck a spare cable up then, I've checked online and both the RGB scart and Component cables are pretty cheap.

The composite video quality actually impressed me compared to how bad the PS2\PS1's composite output is

[Anonymous No.2427228]

One more question regarding wii, In the megadrive emulator, If you turn interlacing off is that actual 240p via composite?
It looks great and I can see strong scanlines

[Anonymous No.2427240]

>>2427228
well great in comparison to when i was using an og xbox as an emulator machine

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2427260]

>>2427228
Genesis Plus GX on the Wii supports 240p perfectly fine over composite.

[Anonymous No.2427265]

>>2427260
thank you kya, you're a great asset to these threads.
someone in another thread told me you can't do 240p over composite.

[Anonymous No.2427267]

Why don't you guys get flatscreen crts?
You always get the shitty ones with awful images.

[Anonymous No.2427273]

>>2427267
don't they have geometry problems ?
i know ours did after just a few years and my 20 year old trinitron works fine

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2427319]

>>2427265
Composite can't do 480p.
240p and 480i(+PAL equivalents) are pretty much all it can do. You get your choice of interlaced signal or thrown together low-res progressive signal.

Not retro, but I had a thought recently; I wonder if it would be possible to modify a PSP in a way so as to output what would usually be displayed on the LCD as a PAL60 signal, being that it would fit within it's 288px height limit.
There'd be problems with aspect ratio, I'm sure, but still a pretty neat idea.

[Anonymous No.2427338]

Dumb question: I'm getting a brand new 25" CRT for my mamecab, but it's 15khz only. Will there be any trouble with some modern games requiring 30khz, since I'm not using the real arcade pcbs but an emulator?

[Anonymous No.2427342]

Didn't win either of the PVM I was bidding on, but have won a nice trinitron 14 inch to tide me over until another one comes up locally.

[Anonymous No.2427381]

>>2427319
Well my plan is RGB scart for my emulators, then component for gamecube games.
The colors aren't as good on composite (obviously) compared to the same ps2 ports I was playing in RGB scart (patched to 240p)
I'd mess with settings but I cant figure out this universal remote.
Happy though, I payed just 25 euros for this wii.

[Anonymous No.2427393]

I haven't owned a CRT in seven years (it exploded in a thunderstorm) but I've kinda wanted to get one for my Dreamcast to play 2D fighters and shmups. Are the benefits of CRT exclusive to high-end models or should I be fine with whatever I find at Goodwill?

[Anonymous No.2427412]

hey folks just gotten myself a CRT monitor and here's a question:
Does the quality of the VGA cable matter?

[Anonymous No.2427432]

>>2427412

Depends. If you think the image qaulity looks like shit or is particularly 'noisy', it probably could stand to be replaced.

[Anonymous No.2427473]

Top-Loader NES fag here.

I've seen there is a solid variety in available A/V output mods. Would you consider any of them to be... "idiot proof" ?

I'd really like RGB or even component output, but I don't want to buy a kit only to realize I'm unable to put it together OR buy a kit and ruin my NES (which based on eBay prices would run me $100+ to replace).

I have basic soldering skills, I think my main concern may be installing the ports in the back of the NES to be honest - I'd feel awful if it came out looking poorly.

[Anonymous No.2427489]

>>2427473
all nes mods that are more than adding composite/audio outs require quite a lot of soldering and desoldering.
Desoldering the PPU for nesrgb is a pain without a desoldering gun.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2427591]

>>2427381
>RGB scart for my emulators, then component for gamecube games
If it's all being done on the same TV/monitor, why not just use component straight up?

[Anonymous No.2427607]

>>2427591
i should have clarified
I've a HDTV downstairs that ill be using when friends are over (It's just there and I don't need to lug down a CRT)

But I've a trinni in my room for /vr/ stuff

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2427627]

>>2427607
That makes sense.

My Wii has had some odd black speckling when displaying 480i or 480p over component and I'm wondering what is causing it; The cables(admittedly cheap) or if the GPU has been shitting itself for the past 3 years straight. First time I remember noticing it was SSBB on my LCD but MM9 suffers from it on the PVM as well.

[Anonymous No.2427636]

What does /CRT/ think of LPD?

[Anonymous No.2427673]

>>2427043
holy shit man

Get a new tube if possible? That'd get you two for less than the price of two. the service manual should say what the tube is if you can't find it otherwise.

and be careful as fuck handling it. You don't want an implosion.

[KAnon No.2427690]

Proud owner of a KV32FS120 and a KV20FSU here. Girlfriend and I were lucky to see her neighbors were giving away a KV27FS100 for free and in amazing condition so we snagged it. Any recommendations on the output settings I should set for this thing?

Pic Related

[Anonymous No.2427775]

>>2427673
the picture tube will probably last people like us a very very long time. (low hours compared to their old life in a production studio/hospital)

I lucked out and my first picture tube was undamaged, but I doubt I'll ever need it. Most likely is that the flyback will go before the picture tube, and even then, without a tube (heavy/sketchy to ship, pricey) having a replacement flyback is probably the way to go. and arcade machine will sometimes go through 1 or 2 flyback transformers before the tube is toast. but these are sonys, and they may last a bit longer than an arcade flyback.
and there's always tube rejuvenation, but that doesn't always work.

[Anonymous No.2427824]

>>2427690
Brother! I've got a 32FS120 as well. The 27 should give you about the same picture, but without all the geometry woes the 32 inch sets have. Turn off any unnecessary sharpness, and keep the brightness as low as you can.

[Anonymous No.2427843]

>>2423282
Can't really recommend any video settings, but get a set of component cables for your ps2 when you get a chance. That tv can take up to a 1080i signal, but s-video can only put out a max of 480i, you'll need component cables to get the best quality video for your ps2.

I got a set of Sony brand ps3 component cables a couple years ago, maybe $15 or $20, totally compatible with the ps2. Worth every penny.

[KAnon No.2427904]

>>2427824

Much thanks, brother!

[Anonymous No.2428037]

>>2411195
After a half of year of moving around, finally settled and decided to pull out my old systems and crt i've been using for 25-ish years.

CRT is dead, discoloration, tilt, bulb looks half blown.
Need a crt for NES-PS2/GC, willing to drop 200 USD, could use recommendations.

[Anonymous No.2428248]

>>2428037
Post your local craigslist and I'll find you a good one.

[Anonymous No.2428716]

Using Linux, how do I get a resolution of 3840x480 or whatever for emulation?

[Anonymous No.2428732]

>>2428716
What do you mean how do you get it? You enter that as your modeline, and an appropriate framerate.

If you meant how do i edit modelines in Linux, google that :) Super Resolution would be another relevant term.

[Anonymous No.2428736]

>>2428732

>If you meant how do i edit modelines in Linux, google that
That's what I needed, thanks.

[Anonymous No.2428737]

>>2428248
>mfw no crts in my area on craigslist.

[Anonymous No.2428837]

>>2427393

Any CRT will have the benefit of zero response time. Better CRTs will have better image quality, though. At the very least, get something with an s-video input.

[Anonymous No.2428959]

I have a crap noname CRT monitor that actually displays a pretty sharp image - however, scanlines are rather minimal at 640*480 and that's as low as it goes(including custom resolutions) so I simply run 240p games @ 480p and delete every second line.
pixels look "wide" on this close up, but it's actually not noticable during game play

looks nice enough for me

[Anonymous No.2428964]

>>2428959
I'd like to try out 1280*960 and delete every fourth line - but sadly the monitor doesn't support this.
my guess is that this would look quite nice and might be a good way to play 240p games on high-res CRTs that don't support 240p natively

[Anonymous No.2428973]

>>2428959
also, don't mind the GBA game (which is 160p of course)
I just like the splash screen and it's cropped - so 240p with black borders upscaled as 480p

[Anonymous No.2429047]

Can anyone help identify what model this is? It's a "Philips natural motion crt". He's giving it away. Is it worth it?

[Anonymous No.2429125]

>>2429047
Don't bother, he threw it away.

[Anonymous No.2429327]

>>2428959
640x480 is suboptimal for emulation, because a lot of games did not display at an integer multiple of that resolution, so you'd either get non-integer scaling artifacts or inaccurate aspect ratios. It's better to use a superwide resolution like 3840x480 and use that to scale games to, because then the scaling artifacts (if there even are any, 3840 is an integer scale of 256, 320, 384, and several others) will be too small for your monitor to resolve.

Blacking out every other line on 480p is the closest thing to actual 240p, but since that reduces brightness by 50% you'll have to adjust the CRT's settings to compensate some how. Some CRTs are able to boost their luminosity a whole lot from their default settings and will therefore have no disadvantages displaying 240p this way, but that depends on what model CRT you have. This can handle 480i games as well if your black lines will oscillate, there's a pixel shader that will do that.

The other option is to simply do 240p with 120Hz refresh rate. By itself, this won't have reduced brightness, but the motion will be worse due to frame doubling, which can be fixed by inserting black frames (which reduces brightness just like black lines, and is also quite sensitive to frame timing variations). 480i games will get downscaled with this display mode.

[Anonymous No.2429353]

>>2428964
I've tried it on my Diamondtron. It's shit. It looks exactly like doing the same thing on an LCD. Pixels still look super blocky, just with black lines inserted. With 480p, for whatever reason, even without adding horizontal blur, pixels look slightly round, and bloom somewhat.

I may have to take a couple of pictures later to show what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.2429398]

I bought a CRT TV from a thriftshop near my house. It's a Philips magnavox 27ms3404. Anyway, the picture is a bit off center. Is there any way to fix this?

[Anonymous No.2429421]

My Sony-GDM5402, sadly it's not used for much retro gaming unless you consider STALKER and Counter-Strike ~retro~ but whatever.

160Hz vertical/121kHz horizontal.

[Anonymous No.2429534]

>>2429353
the beam is much narrower at 960. The vertical edges get more defined.

[Anonymous No.2430946]

Okay so I know nothing about good CRT's but I recently picked up an NES and have started on a collection but I keep hearing about how bad they look on LCD tv's. They don't look awful to me but hey my memory of how NES games looked back when I was originally playing them is fuzzy and if they could look better I'd like to make that happen.
What are some good CRT's that I could choose?

[Anonymous No.2430960]

>>2430946
Any SD Trinitron is a good place to start. So nothing HDTV or EDTV capable, no 720p or 1080i sets, probably something 4:3. There are a ton of these things on ebay, craigslist, gumtree...

[Anonymous No.2431023]

>>2429398
there probably is but you will have to open it up.

[Anonymous No.2431034]

>>2430960
Thank you!

[Anonymous No.2431285]

Found this CRT monitor at a thrift store, didnt pick it up but thinking about it. Can someone tell me if its worth it?

[Anonymous No.2431312]

>>2431285
Samsung Syncmaster CRTs were great, but I think that's an older model that is not as powerful.

Do note that you will only use it for your PC however, since it cannot do 15khz.

[Anonymous No.2431317]

>>2431285
It's reasonable for old stuff. 17 inches, 1024x768 is about the limit. It'll support a higher resolution, but with a shitty refresh rate.

[Anonymous No.2431597]

What's the best way to connect consoles to a VGA CRT?

[Anonymous No.2431625]

>>2431597
You'd need an upscalerlike the XRGB and it'll add input lag when you play on it.

With 6th gen you can get VGA cables for the PS2 but you'd need a SoG monitor and one that'll display 480i signals (if such a thing exists). GC you'd need to mod a $200 cable and I dont think OG Xbox supported VGA. PS3 and 360 both support VGA, I think the unofficial Wii VGA cable is just a component to VGA converter or something.

[Anonymous No.2431652]

>>2431625
wouldn't a sync strike work?

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2431672]

>>2431625
>With 6th gen you can get VGA cables for the PS2 but you'd need a SoG monitor
You can get RGsB from a PS3 with just a standard component cable. You could either go the custom cable route or just chain together various adapters.
>and one that'll display 480i signals (if such a thing exists)
PS2 will NOT output RGsB when in 15khz mode, and requires a separate sync connector in such situations. A "VGA monitor" that would accept 480i wouldn't have any major hoops to jump through to connect consoles up to it, aside from maybe a sync stripper.

PS3 can output RGsB in the same way as the PS2, but will do it system wide. Limited to 480p however.

>I think the unofficial Wii VGA cable is just a component to VGA converter or something.
Correct. The cables I see are always PS3+Wii cables, so you could get 720p or 1080p that way. Can't say how the quality would be though.

>>2431652
Sync Strike is just a sync stripper.

[Anonymous No.2431906]

hey, /vr/. im looking to get a cool component/rgb crt. i found a PVM-1354Q for about 100 bucks. i only plan on using this on my desk next to my computer. i dont need it big, i just need it to look good.

is it worth it?

[Anonymous No.2432065]

>>2431285
These were every were and the go to mid range monitor back in the day

[Anonymous No.2432071]

>>2431906
If the picture is OK (colour/geometry/convergence) yeah but talk them down to at least half that.

[Anonymous No.2432090]

>>2431652
>>2431672
so how do i know if my monitor requires a sync stripper for SCART? im trying to buy some cables so i can plug SCART into my BNC inputs, but the cables are expensive, and im not sure if the extra 15 bucks for a sync stripper is even necessary.

[Anonymous No.2432152]

I fucked with Retroarch on the Wii all day trying figure out why a third of my Neo Geo games wouldn't work only to find out that the core won't load any ROMs above certain size.

[Anonymous No.2432181]

>>2432152

That should not be surprising. Neo Geo games get huge as fuck. Your Wii can do more than you think eulator-wise but not a lot.

[Anonymous No.2432216]

>>>/g/48193761

Couldn't have put the advantages of CRTs better myself.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2432247]

>>2432090
If you're using a VGA monitor, you won't be able to use straight RGB SCART anyway.

If you mean PVMs and the like, it depends on the model in question, but most of them made from the mid-90's on should be fine with cvid as sync.

>>2432216
>view angle? fucking anywhere nigga

[Anonymous No.2432320]

>>2432090
AFAIK the only ways to know for certain are if the manual specifies that you need a pure sync signal or if you have the cable, you try it, and it doesn't work.

You can make one yourself for under $10, and under $5 if you have any of the parts already.

Here's an IC that's really simple and costs $5.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LM1881N%2FNOPB/LM1881N%2FNOPB-ND/28100

I'll even draw you a quick schematic.

You'll need two female RCA jacks, and one of these, or something like it: http://www.amazon.com/Solderable-Copper-Small-Perf-Board/dp/B003DVCS0S

Note that if your RCA jacks can mount without a PCB and you have a way to protect the IC itself, you don't even need a perfboard.

You also need two 0.1uf capacitors and one 680 kilo-ohm resistor (blue-gray-yellow). If you have other values, string them together until they add to 680 kilo-ohms.

(you also need an AC adapter with between 5 and 12 volts DC output. If you just put the chip inside your SNES, you can get 5 volts directly from its voltage regulator.)

You also need one LM1881 IC.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LM1881N%2FNOPB/LM1881N%2FNOPB-ND/28100

Then build this circuit. this is basically taken straight from the datasheet but I tried to make it a tiny bit easier to understand if you've not used electronics before.

If you don't want to solder, get a solderless 'breadboard' for this.

[Anonymous No.2432337]

>>2432247
did he say VGA monitor? I don't think he did.

[Anonymous No.2432349]

>>2429398
Check around online to see how to enter the service menu. I think you are looking for the horizontal position, or the horizontal hold. if you don't have position but do have hold, if you make the screen scramble, go back (meaning start moving the slider the other way) until it stabilizes. If you cant do it from outside, open the TV and look for a trimmer labeled either 'H. Pos." or "h. hold" or something like that.


My old Apple IIe composite monitor has the dials right on the back, easily accessible. It's really great.

[Anonymous No.2432356]

>>2432349
>>2429398
P.S.: Usually, not always, but usually, Magnavoxes weren't the best. Especially after Philips bought them.

[Anonymous No.2432387]

>>2432090
How I got around buying SCART cables and shit

[Anonymous No.2432396]

>>2432320
i havent tinkered with electronics in about 3 years. as much as i would enjoy getting back into it again, i don't have any parts where i live now, and i probably won't be getting them until i move out after college in a few years. it'd probably be cheaper to just shell out the 15 bucks for a female cable with the circuit already built in it. between working a full-time summer job, playing community college catch up, and pursuing other ambitions, time is just too hard to get a hold of, it's not worth it. thanks though.

i did a little bit more reading on it. and from what i understand, some cables output composite SYNC (which is the raw signal) and other cables output composite VIDEO (which has other shit, i guess?). and some monitors have problems understanding the composite video signal, so they block it off. but since that signal has the v-sync signal in it, it fucks up your picture. all the sync stripper does is take the v-sync signal from the composite video signal, separate it, and block off the rest of it. that way the monitor is getting the v-sync that it does understand, and not the composite video that it doesn't.

so if i have it right, i wouldn't need a sync stripper provided all of the scart cables that i use provide pure composite sync, correct?

and let me say, these cables are killing me, man. im trying to get a female scart to bnc cable and a snes scart cable, and it's running me 50 bucks from retrogamingcables.uk. that's like half the price of the crt that i just bought. are scart cables supposed to be this expensive? i tried looking around ebay and amazon, but they would've ran be 60 bucks including shipping.

[Anonymous No.2432428]

>>2432396
Close.

Composite video is the video signal and sync signals all wrapped together. It's the ubiquitous yellow jack.

Some TV's let you use the composite video signal instead of a proper sync signal. My PVM-20L5, for example, lets you do this.

PAL nintendo consoles do not have a separate composite SYNC line. Composite sync is composite video without the video. A black screen sent over composite looks similar to composite sync. for PAL regions the SCART cables expect sync to come over the composite video pin of the SCART cable. Some monitors and such are not made to handle this though.

Not sure how much of a problem it is in NTSC land, however.

However, some are less lenient and require the sync signal without anything else.

[Anonymous No.2432493]

>>2432428
i have the PVM-1354Q. i looked through the manual, and under inputs/outputs i see: EXT SYNC in BNC Connector: Composite SYNC. which is the "pure" signal, also known as composite sync and csync. since it doesn't say anything about composite video, im assuming that it can't handle the information being pushed with the video signal.

and it probably will be a problem over here in NTSC land, since the PAL gamecube is the only one that can naturally output SCART without being cracked open. i guess i'll have to buy the sync stripper.

where do you guys buy your RGB cables, i feel like i can get them cheaper somewhere else. 60 bucks for 2 cables is insane.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2432514]

>>2432337
I only mentioned it because it was brought up earlier in that specific reply chain.

>>2432493
>PVM-1354Q
>since it doesn't say anything about composite video, im assuming that it can't handle the information being pushed with the video signal.
It supports Component and RGsB, it'll take composite video as sync just fine.

>feel like i can get them cheaper somewhere else.
You can get them from China from next to nothing, but they'll be complete and utter shit.

Retrogamingcables has SCART cables for various systems for <20, assuming you ignore the absolutely insane Packapunch stuff.

[Anonymous No.2432527]

>>2432493
you wont hurt it by trying composite video for sync.

[Anonymous No.2432530]

>>2432514
>I only mentioned it because it was brought up earlier in that specific reply chain.
alright.

both my PVM-20L5 and Panasonic BT-H1390TN support composite video as sync. Most do. If it's a broadcast monitor, assume it does until informed otherwise.

[Anonymous No.2432542]

>>2432514
>supports Component and RGsB, it'll take composite video as sync just fine.

so it can do both? is that because it can support RGsB? RGsB carries the VSYNC on the green cable, correct? and that's what allows it to work with both?

and it sounds like retrogamingcables is a decent place then. i saw retroRGB plugging it, and it made me a bit skeptical. usually sites that are plugged charge you more, especially if they have a pretty name like "retro gaming xxx." i guess i'll get the cables from them then.

it's better tech that's less commercialized than composite, i figured it would cost more, but i guess i wasn't expecting it to be this pricey. im sure it'll be worth it when i finally get this hooked up though. the pictures look insane.

[Anonymous No.2432558]

>>2432542
guessing its because it can handle ypbpr, where the 'Y' (usually a green jack) is rather similar to a black and white composite signal.

[Anonymous No.2432563]

>>2432542
also, I agree about retroRGB. It's "buy this, buy that, don't LEARN anything or something crazy like that".
Of course they don't have info on doing >>2425914 there, because that way you'd be doing it yourself. I just don't trust the knowledge of the guy who runs that site. With all his crap about scalers and shit, I just don't trust him. Also he claims that the SNES mini's RGB is somehow superior to the 1CHIP's, even though they use the exact same parts.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2432575]

>>2432542
I wouldn't say that it's because it can take those signals, just that if it has the circuitry to deal with those signals, a bit of video information mixed in with the sync isn't going to be much trouble to deal with.

>>2432563
I believe he only just recently removed that grossly biased comparison of ALttP showing off different signal types.

[Anonymous No.2432602]

>>2432558
>>2432563
>>2432575
well thanks guys, I appreciate the advice

I'll just get the standard female scart/bnc cable from retrogamingcables then, since the only cheaper cables I can find are from China, and fuck that. if I wanted to wait around for 2 weeks to be disappointed, I could just check my paycheck.

Since retroRGB is a bit sketchy, what other places do you go for information such as this? I had a lot of trouble finding it. I'm guessing because this getting more and more expensive, hard-core, and technical. I might not have a bench, tools, and time, but I wouldn't mind knowing more about video signals, and how to extend the life of my hardware. it can save lots of time and money.

[Anonymous No.2432614]

Posted in another thread but is the Sony kx-14cp1 any good?

[Anonymous No.2432631]

>>2432071
Yeah, price is a little high. Some guy in Tasmania just sold a few in superb condition for A$25ea. He knew what he had, he just didn't want to rip anyone off.

[Anonymous No.2432642]

>>2432614
Yup, it's nice. And it looks amazing. If the screen is in good condition, go for it up to about $50.

[Anonymous No.2432646]

>>2432614
a couple guys posted theirs in the last thread, so I'd guess so
https://archive.moe/vr/thread/2390249/#2398709

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2432650]

>>2432602
I don't know if I'd call it sketchy as much as heavily opinionated. There's useful information on there, but an occasional cross check wouldn't hurt.
gamesx.com has quite a nice amount of information for video signals, modding, av pinouts and a good bit more.
shmups, sega-16, and assemblergames have a lot of different information but it's buried and spread out across countless threads.

>>2432614
The photos I've seen of it are wonderful.

[Anonymous No.2432745]

I still don't see how people DON'T see the allure of using original hardware on the displays they were intended for. I can see why emulation people wouldn't use CRTs, but that's part of their whole ethos, but people who actually use real hardware but don't use period displays really I just don't get it.

[Anonymous No.2432805]

>>2426812
Late reply, but 240p suite.

Can TV repair shops, assuming they even work with CRTs anymore, calibrate a PVM? It's getting to the point where I can't even enjoy myself with this monitor anymore. Literally every time I try playing a game on it I spend more time miserably failing to calibrate geometry settings than I do playing it. It's fucking hell, I swear. I love this monitor but at the same time I fucking hate it. I never got this kind of warping on my old CRT.

[Anonymous No.2432817]

Any tips for removing cigarette smell from used CRT?

[Anonymous No.2432982]

>>2432745
> I can see why emulation people wouldn't use CRTs, but that's part of their whole ethos

I use a raspberry pi emulator setup on a crt

[Anonymous No.2433107]

>>2431906
>>2432071
also auschoice in brisbane has 14m4as for sale at about 100 bucks a pop. Offer 70-80 or something and see if they accept because it's a way better quality/newer monitor than the one you mentioned.

[Anonymous No.2433110]

>>2432152
yeah the wii's neo geo emulation is worse than the psp's (which is pretty crap and finicky too)

[Anonymous No.2433119]

>>2432602
retroRGB is fine if a bit dated

also try: http://shmups.system11.org/

[Anonymous No.2433126]

>>2432805
yeah I feel that dude just put the shitty bits out of view in the underscan. Or get a BVM

Moving the magnet thingies around on the back of the tube isn't dangerous right?

[Anonymous No.2434012]

>>2432817
become a smoker so you become used to it

[Anonymous No.2434331]

>>2432575
>I believe he only just recently removed that grossly biased comparison of ALttP showing off different signal types.
Nope, it's still up. http://retrorgb.com/snesversioncompare.html

[Anonymous No.2434345]

>>2432650
yeah, I used gamesx for the multi-out RGB pinout.

Rule 27 of Pokemon: Never use rest while fighting a gengar.

[Anonymous No.2434354]

>>2432805
Geometry on a CRT is never perfect.
If geometry is the only problem, burn a crosshatch pattern to a DVD.

If you need to color calibrate, sure a TV shop might be able to. Otherwise, you can probably figure it out yourself. There are excellent guides on calibrating CRT TV's.

[Anonymous No.2434408]

>>2433126
Yeah, being near the tube can be dangerous.
Discharge it first and it is far safer (though still not 100%)
>>2432602
>Since retroRGB is a bit sketchy, what other places do you go for information such as this? I had a lot of trouble finding it. I'm guessing because this getting more and more expensive, hard-core, and technical. I might not have a bench, tools, and time, but I wouldn't mind knowing more about video signals, and how to extend the life of my hardware. it can save lots of time and money.

Video is pretty complicated.
I learned the most by playing around under linux with custom signal timings on a CRT monitor.
For more information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFree86_Modeline
Also see this guide. http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/XFree86-Video-Timings-HOWTO/introduction.html
There's a tool called CVT that will tell you the 'standard' frequencies for a given resolution and refresh rate, as well as a spreadsheet that tells you everything you'll ever need to know about CRT timings: http://www.fl-eng.com/_lib/doc/vesa.xls
Get a CRT monitor that has an OSD and such, as it is least likely to kill itself when fed an incorrect timing. Sony "Multiscan" monitors (mine's a CPD-100SF) are GREAT for testing with. I was able to figure out how to 'pad' an image (change the horizontal total without changing horizontal pixels) as well as getting 2560x1920 video out onto a 14 inch CRT by interlacing.

It was really fun, especially when I used my knowledge to hook my computer to a PVM. Note that some video cards are better for this, and I've found older intel chipsets to be versatile.

Know that a vertical sync is when you tell the tube to move the scanline beam from the far right of the tube back to the far left, and that vsync is a pulse when you tell the tube to move from the bottom of the screen back to the top. Pixel clock is how often pixels are sent per scanline.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2434667]

>>2434331
That's not the offending comparison. The one I'm taking about compares composite, s-video, transcoded RGB, and RGB.

The problem is, where he could have used the PVM for the YPbPr example, he instead chose to use a consumer model, making it seem like there was a wide difference between the two in picture quality. I'm sure the straight RGB would look better on the PVM, but if you're trying to show the quality difference between signals, you need to keep the display constant.

>>2434408
I need a 20L5.

[Anonymous No.2434712]

Hey /vr/, I got a Sony Trinitron / WEGA 27 inch for 30 dollars. Was that a good price?

I must say the improvement from my HDTV is real and I'd like to thank these threads for helping out. CRTs are awesome.

[Anonymous No.2434716]

>>2434712

If it's in good shape, then yeah. Welcome to the club, brother.

[Anonymous No.2434723]

>>2434408
gonna just take pictures of video signals on my ancient oscilloscope.

This is what a composite signal looks like on an oscilloscope when you are on the Super Mario Kart title screen. Note that the TV is actually using RGB, the scope is just showing the equivalent composite signal. This contains the color in YUV space, as well as the black and white brightness signal, and the sync.
the sync is the solid green line where it dips way down.
The bit right after that is the color burst, where the color signal is stuffed.
The rest is, I believe, the luminance of the scanline in question. each of those little segments at the base of the stuff above is actually a scanline. each scanline is terminated by hsync, and you are seeing the hsync's in there too.

Next up is an annotated version of this picture, as I understand it. Note that I may be wrong, I have no professional experience in this. if you notice anything glaringly wrong, I know that as anons on 4chan you will be quick to call me a dumbass and you will then be helpful by telling me where I was wrong.

[Anonymous No.2434730]

>>2434716
It's in excellent shape, hardly a scratch on it and the even gave me the remote. BATTERIES INCLUDED.

[Anonymous No.2434732]

>>2434667
>I need a 20L5.
Haha, I think yours (whatever it is) looks fantastic, myself.

I was taking the opportunity to test myself for photosensitive epilepsy by playing that Pokemon episode that caused the seizures. :D
conclusion: I am not particularly photosensitive.

[Anonymous No.2434738]

>>2434712
Just going to flaunt again. FREE 20L5 WOOOO

(but seriously, welcome to our club :D)

[Anonymous No.2434742]

>>2434667
this ?
http://retrorgb.com/rgbmonitors.html

[Anonymous No.2434743]

>>2434730

Cool. Take some pictures for us.

[Anonymous No.2434776]

>>2434742
>this?
yeah, and this >>2425887 >>2434408
>>2434345
>>2426834
>>2426828
>>2425967


Oh, and >>2423930 , I think you have your brightness set too low or you've got your TV set to 7.5 IRE on a japanese imported console. "0 IRE" means a lower level black signal, so the picture will be brighter.

[Anonymous No.2434779]

>>2434776
>>2434742
wait, actually, the RetroRGB page you linked does not have a 20L5 on it. It does have other PVM/BVM's though.

[Anonymous No.2434787]

>>2434776
That's a PC CRT monitor emulating the DS version of Chrono Trigger. Of course the image looks darker than usual, as he's inserting black lines with little to compensate. He might also be using NTSC color range with a shader, not sure.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2434804]

>>2434742
Well I suppose it is still up.

I went looking for it before, but couldn't remember what page it was on.

>>2434732
20M2MDU

I like the look of mine, don't get me wrong. It's just that I would kill for that 480p support and higher line count. That latter bit I blame on fiddling around with the Megaview.

There's that and the fact that mine is starting to show its age. Streaking from bright areas and junk. Doesn't show up in normal photos but it's become quite obvious in the past few months. This is with the brightness and contrast cranked all the way up.

[Anonymous No.2434809]

>>2434667
also, suggesting Loewe of Bang&Olufsen set is a pretty bad idea, as they come with deinterlace and doublescan gimmicks that are usually not switchable.

[Anonymous No.2434812]

>>2434743
I'm not sure how to take as good pictures as you guys.

Also the game isn't really /vr/, but this has always been a vidya cozy area for me so I've got it on.

[Anonymous No.2434815]

>>2434743
>>2434812
And here's a close up.

[Anonymous No.2434823]

>>2434812
>>2434815

Try a 240p game.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2434834]

>>2434812
480i is significantly harder to get good photos of than 240p, especially without relying on flash.

[Anonymous No.2434841]

>>2434812
>>2434815
what do you use for taking pics ? If smartphone look out for something like "screen". My galaxy S3 has a mode labelled as such and it makes surprisingly good pics.

Else, the usual applies, black room, white balance on fluorescent. 1/60s shutter speed.

[Anonymous No.2434861]

>>2434841
Actually, i've been using 1/30 or 1/25 to avoid flickering, f/3.5 or f/4.0 aperture, and ISO 100 or 200 setting. Otherwise I get the fading phosphors from one frame to the next.

[Anonymous No.2434863]

>>2434823
Okie dokie. I used Megaman 8.

>>2434834
Ah, I see.

>>2434841
I could find no such mode (iPhone 4, not even s). I did make sure the room was dark which is about all I can give ya.

Anyways, here's the general screen.

[Anonymous No.2434864]

>>2434863
Here's a close up, all pixely. I caught Rockman blinking twice. Maybe he's disappointed in my photography.

[Anonymous No.2434865]

>>2434863
You need ios 8 for any advanced camera settings, but as a 4s owner I cannot recommend buying a new iphone. Apple is not a company I want to support and since I actually do advanced things with my phone and jailbreak religiously, I do not like apples' "Thou Shalt Not Downgrade" policy, as well as their zeal against jailbreakers.

[Anonymous No.2434867]

>>2434863

Looks a bit wobbly. Colors are nice though.

[Anonymous No.2434884]

>>2434723
alright, I made a mistake.

hsync is the big dip. No idea what the tiny ones are, but I suspect they are the video signal itself.

[Anonymous No.2434889]

>>2434865
Dude, I hate Apple too. I'm right with you. I was able to get this phone last year for 99 cent so that's really the only reason I have it.

>>2434867
It is, not sure how I messed that up. But thank you, the colors are really insane on this thing, and I am using component.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2434967]

>>2434861
My camera seems to float between 1/8 and 1/35 for the most part. f/2.8 and ISO 64 unless everything is coming out too dark, then I might raise it to 100.
I also abuse exposure bias like crazy; Even at ISO64, Chrono Trigger is way too bright and has to be stepped down .3 to .7 of a step.

[Anonymous No.2435056]

>>2434967
my camera doesn't give me those options and I haven't looked into custom firmware on it yet :(

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435061]

>>2435056
I'm using a point'n'shoot that put me back <$20 from ebay to replace a few months back.

It's a piece of shit, but it works alright for what I use it for.

It's going to be crazy if and when I get a new camera, comparing the new photos to the old.

[Anonymous No.2435064]

>>2435056
forgot pic. BTW I'm the one who posted his settings earlier here >>2434861
(wow, to get this to 4MB I had to use a jpeg 0.85 ratio...)

[Anonymous No.2435072]

>>2435064
point-n-shoot gift from parents after my (better) sony cybershot point-n-shoot was stolen from the back of my car while driving through Kansas. New one is a Canon SX160 IS.
It's not bad at all, but my older camera was a bit better.

Funny how I never got stuff stolen in Chicago, only in middle-of-nowhere, Kansas. So much for "good country folk".

[Anonymous No.2435078]

>>2434967
I think I'm going to adopt a name since I'm posting so much, but anyway, I'm the 20L5 guy. Your Chrono Trigger pics look remarkably similar to my Chrono Trigger pics :\

[Anonymous No.2435082]

here, have a luminance signal from Chrono Trigger, pulled from the S-video Y pin.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435112]

>>2435072
Never trust country folk. Doubly so if they're mountain country folk

>>2435078
If it makes you feel any better, your full screen photos look quite nicer than any that I managed to get.

I forgot how horrific these load times were.

[Anonymous No.2435119]

dat pixel doubling

[Anonymous No.2435125]

>>2435112
Not had QUITE that much trouble with mountain country folk, actually. Then again, I was born there and lived there for a few years (southwest colorado, San Juan mountains, actually kind of close to IRL South Park), so I make decisions accordingly.

[Anonymous No.2435127]

>>2435119
That's Secret of Evermore, right?

I bought that game way back and never really got into it. Should I give it another go?
(I think Chrono Trigger spoiled me a bit)
Also, WOW that's some bad pixel doubling.

[Anonymous No.2435131]

Panasonic BT-H1390YN broadcast monitor. There's a JVC monitor I can't think of right now that is EXACTLY the same except branding. It's a pretty nice 14 inch monitor, despite being a shadow mask monitor.

[Anonymous No.2435132]

>>2435127
Wrong Secret game, bra.

And yeah, it's not the prettiest thing. But of course it was most likely a cheap way to make the boss appear big and menacing without adding extra detail.

[Anonymous No.2435136]

>>2435131
P.S. The JVC identical monitor is the BM-H1310SU.
I even followed the JVC service manual to get into the service menu and center my image (after this was taken).

[Anonymous No.2435140]

>>2435132
I am reminded of a CERTAIN OTHER GAME.

Also, can't seem to find any of the 'mana' games anywhere. It's sad. :(

I only look locally and casually, really. I keep popping in, looking around, hoping to find earthbound, but of course I manage to get a free 20L5 before I can get a fucking copy of earthbound.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435141]

>>2435125
Appalachian hill folk are not to be trusted.

>>2435131
>despite being a shadow mask monitor
Absolutely nothing wrong with shadow masks.

[Anonymous No.2435149]

>>2435140
Alright, forgot to post that CERTAIN OTHER GAME picture.
>>2435141
After using this and an apple IIe composite monitor, I'd agree. I said 'even though' mainly because some people assume shadow mask is inherently flawed because it "isn't an aperture grille".

[Anonymous No.2435154]

>>2435136
another approximately identical monitor is JVC BM-H2000PN-K

That one has a service manual available here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3ZFcMWBc84DR2Zqd0NtLVJHTVE/view?usp=sharing

[Anonymous No.2435160]

>>2435141
which monitor is that?


on an unrelated note, still not liking this new captcha. Getting real tired of selecting images of steak. It makes me want to never eat stake again. Or cake. Or soup. God, I just want some garbled text...

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435186]

>>2435160
Mitsubishi Megaview 37 Pro "XC-3730c".
Supports Composite, S-Video, and RGB; Will sync to anything between 15 and 85khz.

[Anonymous No.2435192]

And since we're on the subject of Chrono Trigger...

[Anonymous No.2435197]

>>2435192
dat fucking pos forced retconning....

[Anonymous No.2435202]

>>2435192
I just had to replace my save battery, so I can't show a screenshot in that far...

:(

anyway, I sometimes pop this game in just for the music :)

[Anonymous No.2435207]

>>2435202
Given the DS version doesn't use a battery, you would never have gotten there anyway.

[Anonymous No.2435209]

>>2435197
hey, take a chill pill man. He did nothing wrong.
>>2434667
Do I spot a donkey kong atari 2600 cartridge?

[Anonymous No.2435215]

>>2435207
>looks a second time
...how is that on a CRT then?

[Anonymous No.2435225]

>>2435209
that additional ending was just like "hey guise, CC is totally related to CT, like really ! like officially ! ...
...
...
plz stop hating CC ;_;"

[Anonymous No.2435231]

>>2435215
Emulation, son.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435242]

>>2435209
Yes, though I've never set my hands on an Atari, let alone played one. Found it while cleaning the basement a few years back.
Family of pack rats, what are you gonna do.

[Anonymous No.2435246]

>>2435231
...and a special video card?
Damn, people. If you can't deal with the SNES version for some reason, you need to DEAL WITH it not having scanlines... not spend hundreds of dollars...

Old pic, but going to sleep now and you all have had enough pics of my 20L5 for a long time.

[Anonymous No.2435250]

>>2435242
I have my parents' old atari.

The games are a wee bit too primitive for me, but I keep it around anyway because the games can still be fun for a little bit.

Also I have swordquest fireworld, with comic, manual, cartridge, and box.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435276]

>>2435246
>...and a special video card?
Shaders and filters on a PC CRT with a normal video card.

Even if it wasn't, the ArcadeVGA only simplifies things; You can do low-res emulation with most graphics cards if you feel like doing the leg work.

A simple scanline overlay can go a long way though.

>>2435250
I wouldn't mind getting one just to fiddle around with, but it's not on my "must buy list" by any means.
I do have a Colecovision and Intellivision that I got from a relative, but my attempts at getting them going were thwarted by not having an RCA to F-Connector adapter.

[Anonymous No.2435280]

>>2435276
Radioshack sold 'em.

A place in my town bought out radioshack stock and started a new store, they sell 'em too. In fact, I have one right behind me.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435298]

>>2435280
I know where I can get one, it's just not a high priority at the moment.
If only I could use one of the many RCA-BNC connectors I have laying around.

[Anonymous No.2435306]

>>2435298
If I could, I'd trade an RCA to F connector for an RCA to BNC... I can never have enough (technically I need five more to reach how many I need).

[Anonymous No.2435338]

>>2435246
You wot? There's no special video card. It's purely a few shaders on a PC CRT monitor I got for a grand total of $5.

[Anonymous No.2435427]

Do you guys take requests?
Could you take a picture of a crt displaying n64 games? I'm looking for mario 64, ocarina of time, Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards and Harvest moon 64.

[Anonymous No.2435445]

>>2435427
What kind of scenes do you want? I can do Mario and OoT.

[Anonymous No.2435465]

>>2435445
I would want pictures which give an accurate representation of what you think it looks like to sit in front of one and play. I'm thinking real hard about whether I should get one, as they are quite expensive over here, and I thought that this would be a good way to make my mind up. Thanks a lot.

[Anonymous No.2435538]

>>2435465
Well, can't do it now. N64 seems to have decided to cease functioning.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435734]

>>2435427
>Do you guys take requests?
Always

Camera is shitting the bed though; Won't focus unless it's zoomed in two steps, but zooming in past three steps is making it shut off. I don't get this stupid thing.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435736]

>>2435734

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435738]

>>2435736

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435741]

>>2435738

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435743]

>>2435741

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435746]

>>2435743

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435750]

>>2435746

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435752]

>>2435750

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435757]

>>2435752

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2435759]

>>2435757
I'm not really sure what happened here, but I've got several more like it. A lot of the SM64 shots came out like shit.

[Anonymous No.2436208]

>>2435759
Thanks mate, I appreciate it.

[Anonymous No.2436621]

I'm thinking of moving my PS3 to the room with my CRT when I play Playstation Classics/PS2 games. Does it properly support 4:3? I remember when I tried hooking up my Wii U to that CRT it just would not work correctly. I'd be using component cables by the way.

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2436747]

>>2436621
PS3 will give you the option of 16:9 or 4:3 for 480i or 480p when changing your display settings. Actual PS1 games play in 4:3, but whether a given game will display in 4:3 is up to it. Most PS1 and PS2 games should be totally fine in that regard. Videos obviously depend on their own aspect ratio.

>Wii U
Yeah, it only supporting 16:9 outside of vWii is annoying.

[Anonymous No.2436758]

>>2436747
It should be noted that the PS3 does not support 240p and all games will be scaled to 480i when played on a CRT, and rather poorly at that. When I first got my PS3, years before I knew what the hell 240p and 480i were, I noticed something was wrong with the way games looked and that everything looked like it was flickering when it wouldn't on my PS1 or PS2.

[Anonymous No.2436874]

>>2436747
>>2436758

The only one I have right now is Symphony of the Night. Do y'all know if that displays correctly? I have it digitally so I wouldn't be playing off the disk if that matters at all.

[Anonymous No.2436886]

>>2436874
It will display just fine, just not nearly as sharp as the original image displayed from a PS1 or PS2. It's kind of impossible to capture the difference in a photo (It also doesn't help that this picture is really old and before I knew exactly what I was doing), but as I said, you may notice some flickering where there previously was none. Or, hell, you might not even notice it at all. It bugs my eyes out, though.

[Anonymous No.2436935]

So how does a Murrifat into RGB without SCART? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it exists here, as I've never seen it.

Also, by RGB do you guys mean either SCART or component depending on context?

[Anonymous No.2437038]

>>2436935
pvm, modding or scart to component.
RGB usually refers to 15khz RGB+sync (either composite vid or pure sync)
Component can be refered as YUV or YPbPr; should not use RGB (even if the connectors are that colors) to avoid confusion

[Kya !kDashing02 No.2437385]

New Thread:

>>2437383
>>2437383

[Anonymous No.2438581]

I ordered an s-video cable for my Saturn on Amazon...I deliberately ordered one where the images showed cables without the composite cable attached. I just got it and it's a retro-bit cable with the composite attached.

So, my question is...Are these just as good picture-wise or are they lower in quality? I swear I read somewhere that the s-video cables with the composite cable attached aren't as good. Should I complain and return it since it's not what's shown in the images?