/vr/ - Retro Games

File: 209 KB, 640x457, Yamaha_YM2612_chip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat May 16 19:57:52 2015 No.2407195 [Reply] [Original]

Which 16-bit console had the better sound chip: the SNES or the mega-drive/ Genesis? I've seen people say the the SNES chip was more advanced but given the kinds of sounds and music heard on many Genesis games I am inclined to disagree. Did the people working on Genesis games simply have more talent then the ones who worked on the average SNES game or did having two different chips really just give the Genesis compusers extra room for more sounds

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 19:59:43 2015 No.2407196 >>2407195 PC Engine

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 20:02:10 2015 No.2407197 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwnLg9Ufz_U

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:05:40 2015 No.2407203
File: 33 KB, 500x375, 1371586670760.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2407195
Here's a question: have you ever listened to a game's music and was able to say "Yeah, that's totally a SNES game?"

I can say that about Genesis music. It seems to me that the Genesis was more constraining. I bet you could actually get the same sounds out of the SNES. I know how the SPC700 and A-DSP work on the SNES, but not on the Genesis, so it's hard to say this for sure.

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:06:35 2015 No.2407205

>>2407195
MD sound was great if you liked making unique sounds, and knew how to program an FM synth. Horrible otherwise.

SNES was a horrible low-end PCM synth, which also made it extremely simple to use for developers (it was like a low-quality, programmable keyboard).

Basically, the Megadrive could be made to sound horrible or fuckawesome depending on programmer, while the SNES always sounded mediocre at best. The biggest strength of the SNES was doing soft orchestral tunes and voices (and having compressed voices, meaning they could put more of them on the cart), biggest strength of the MD was anything that did not require a soft sound.

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:12:40 2015 No.2407210

>>2407205
FM synth? What, like you poke at the Fourier components of the sounds you want to make directly on Genesis/MD?

Actually one thing the does irk me about the SNES is that the samples are supposively 4-bit, but the LSB gets dropped in decoding. WTF?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 20:22:18 2015 No.2407225 The sounds are different ( they were created for different things ) the Megadrive / Genesis : It has a metallic sound snes : normal sound

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 20:34:27 2015 No.2407243 >>2407210 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulation_synthesis The DX7 was the sound of mid/late 80s pop, I'm sure you've heard it.

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:42:02 2015 No.2407257

as many have pointed out, FM synth is awesome but dreadful in the wrong hands. i've actually looked into making songs using a sega genesis sound chip emulator in FL studio but the thing is just fucking impossible to use, every sound ends up like sonic spinball's options music unless you're really well-practiced

to a lesser extent, the same is true of samples. in the right hands they sound good enough (look at earthbound) but most of the snes games that tried hard to emulate real instruments, particularly orchestral ones, just sound naff in comparison. you also got very little space for samples, and the snes audio chip ends up making all sounds really muffled.

people used to hold up the snes as superior to the genesis technically but i think most now concede that it's a matter of personal skill and developer aptitude

post comparisons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqbzRwrZZ5k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUeU_bGd8H0

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:43:23 2015 No.2407259

>>2407203

You can make something that sounds like a really crappy Genesis soundtrack on an SNES, but complex FM effects or filtering is out of the question. Stuff like the drawn-out synth pads in Ecco The Dolphin would also be a problem, due to limited storage.

Also, SNES samples are very low quality. Even SNES tracks that sound "CD quality" have pretty shit samples when you extract them from the ROM.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 20:43:33 2015 No.2407260 >>2407225 normal? everything sounds like it was recorded through a blanket though.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 20:44:17 2015 No.2407265 >>2407225 >snes >normal sound The gaussian interpolation on the SNES makes everything sound a bit muffled.

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:45:12 2015 No.2407268

>>2407243
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulation_synthesis
Just read the article. I see that you could potentially have a lot more control over programmatic sound effects, like ramping your frequency, but it also seems like that you have something closer to a Moog, Korg, or DX7 than a generic sound creation device. That is, controlling the Genesis is more akin to twisting knobs and levers on a synth rather than playing a specific sample at different pitches like the SNES.

You're probably right, in the right hands the Genesis sound card could sound awesome. But I think the SNES could offer more variety. Also as you pointed out PWM is much more straight forward to get acceptable results than FM synth were you either have to calculate the right modulation or just mess around.

I probably have heard a DX7 in music, but I have never heard of the actual device.

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:49:53 2015 No.2407278

Btw, if anyone is interested I can post (most of) Super Metroid's SPC700 sound driver disassembly.

I actually wrote a codec for the SNES A-DSP too.

I've been wanting to make a sequencer for the SNES so I can make my own music, but haven't yet. Just hacked in some new music into Super Metroid and inserted the sound effect 'FUCK' for every minor sound.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 20:53:28 2015 No.2407283 >>2407278 Insert "FUCK" into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-UkEsnjNRU

Anonymous Sat May 16 20:59:51 2015 No.2407289

>>2407283
Prolly wouldn't be that hard. All you have to do is have the sample (I could tear it out of SM or encode a new one), find the sample table (Look at DSP settings), rewrite the samples all to point to the 'FUCK' sample, and viola.

Too bad I don't have a decent debugger for SNES anymore. I wish Linux had something like Geiger's, but it's been a while since I hacked last.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 21:01:47 2015 No.2407293 File: 20 KB, 484x271, vst2612.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2407257 What VST did you try and use? I use pic related with great results.

Anonymous Sat May 16 21:09:54 2015 No.2407316
File: 260 KB, 297x364, 1369932063479.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2407293
I wish there was an online YM2612 thingy.

I did find this. I would have jizzed my pants if this had been in a Genesis game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU4COz6Gc4U

Anonymous Sat May 16 21:45:05 2015 No.2407381
File: 26 KB, 640x480, claymates_no_father.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I love both soundchips. The sound quality really depends on the composers skills.
For the snes I always enjoyed the music in Claymates. It sounds like they used really high quality samples. Claymates is also interesting because its not rippable in the spc format.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bwooe8iIUU&list=PL6D0EB67C2E3C1161

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 22:00:40 2015 No.2407424 Oh great, this thread, agaiiinn >SNES had low quality samples What do you people honestly expect from early 1990s home console? It may not be CD quality, but it was pretty versatile for what it was.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 22:00:40 2015 No.2407425 >>2407268 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3rrjQtQe5A Here's a DX7 with the pre-installed patches. You can hear some of that twangy FM bass in there.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 22:08:54 2015 No.2407449 >>2407425 I think the most representative sound of FM Synth vs PWM is the last patch Take Off. That would be tough to do in a small amount of memory with PWM, but would probably be trivial in FM Synth.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 16 22:10:45 2015 No.2407452 >>2407449 It sounds very similar to stuff you'd hear in an old arcade game using a YM2151 chip. Also I get Thunder Force IV/Toaplan vibes when he plays with Clav 1, am I the only one?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 21:27:55 2015 No.2409531 >given the kinds of sounds and music heard on many Genesis games I am inclined to disagree TWANG TWANG BRUMM BLONG

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 21:30:24 2015 No.2409536 >>2409531 Is this the first time you've ever heard video game music? It tends not to sound like real instruments.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 21:32:27 2015 No.2409541 >>2409536 It's not that it doesn't sound like real instruments. It's that it sounds terrible and every game sounds the same. This sound chip is like the gaming world's country music.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 21:34:33 2015 No.2409545 PC Engine

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 21:37:45 2015 No.2409552 >>2409541 How would you know what it sounds like being deaf?

Anonymous Sun May 17 21:49:20 2015 No.2409572

>>2409541
Most musicians just used the default presets in the SDK. They either had no concept of a chip having programmable instruments, or did not bother finding their own, better instruments. That's why many games sounded the same.

The few titles that tried using unique samples (even next to the normal SDK) had AMAZING sounds. Toejam & Earl 2 sound almost indistinguishable from real-life instrumental versions of their tunes, for example.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 21:51:14 2015 No.2409578 >>2407195 Amiga

Anonymous Sun May 17 22:24:47 2015 No.2409636

As has been said and will probably continue to be said, the only real correct answer is that it depends on the skill of who is composing/programming for it. Both are capable of amazing sounding stuff, and both are capable of muffled tinny shit (SNES) or farty twangy shit (Genesis.) I was a Genesisfag growing up so the farty twangy shit will always have a special place in my heart.

Whenever these threads pop up I always end up posting a few of my favorites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a76oFUArUek Because this song comes out of fucking nowhere and melts your face off in an otherwise silly lighthearted game about rocket opossums. I still secretly hope Michiru Yamane was responsible for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdY4EKAcW4Q I've never even played Mega Turrican but this is easily the cleanest sounding track I've ever heard out of a stock Genesis/MD.

On the SNES Side, there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzrvBANyArs Something about that slap-bass intro never fails to bring the hype. I prefer it even to the Redbook audio from the Turbo Duo version.

Anonymous Sun May 17 22:26:57 2015 No.2409639

>>2407195
SNES. Genesis can do some damn impressive stuff, and I love its classy synth sound, but you can outright do more with the SNES, full-stop.
and with modern tools, it's piss easy (google snesmod -- takes ordinary 8 channel IT modules and builds an SPC file you can play)
even with modern tools, making (good) FM patches on the Genesis requires a bit of effort and know-how.

The biggest problem with the SNES is that samples were massively lowered in quality because of cartridge space (and that's even before we get into the fact that sample quality will never be particularly great because it needs to fit in the tiny 64kB sound RAM).
also, filtering really hurts it -- it cleans up the super lo-fi samples a bit (and some of them desperately need it)
but it makes everything really, really muddy

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:34:05 2015 No.2409653 >>2409639 genesis can use PCM to do this though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9WzrJ5OyWA doesn't require any extra chips like that MSU 1

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:36:49 2015 No.2409657 >>2409653 A dubious Youtube tech demo is pretty keen, but what Genesis games actually did anything remotely close to that?

Anonymous Sun May 17 22:38:34 2015 No.2409663

The SNES has a much more level quality of music, i.e. there's less grating sounds on the ear.
You can blame lazy sound engineers and the GEMS Soundfont for that.

That said I don't think any SNES game can touch what Yuzo Koshiro did with the Mega Drive/Genesis hardware. It sounds like actual music you'd hear on the radio at the time, whereas the SNES still sounded "gamey".

So the Genesis hardware was better as far as I'm concerned, just because some lazy American fuck couldn't be assed to make something impressive doesn't make it bad.

Anonymous Sun May 17 22:39:11 2015 No.2409665

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1RmgVXaVNo

if anyone thinks this is "objectively" better than genesis music they are a fool. I love it cause I kinda like that distorted muffled sound but it's not better than genesis music. Both soundchips were better at different things if you think one is objectively better you're probably just biased to one side.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:40:31 2015 No.2409669 >>2409657 Oh none because of cart space it would take same reason the sample quality on SNES games is usually shit but if people want to say "well with modern tools the super nintendo is just more capable" that's just fuckin wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:40:38 2015 No.2409670 >>2409665 This would've been better on the Genesis. Just look at Thunder Force IV for an example of a similar sound.

Anonymous Sun May 17 22:41:24 2015 No.2409671

>>2409653

You can do similar with the NES. Somewhere in the depths of the internet you can find a ROM of the old 80s TMNT theme done entirely in PCM. It's the only thing on the cart but its entirely listenable. I've been trying to locate it but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I probably have the ROM buried on some old HDD or CD-R somewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dBXuZtbos
This gives you an idea; honestly this actually sounds better as they've had another decade to figure out how to squeeze even more out of the damn thing.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:42:34 2015 No.2409674 >>2409669 if people want to say "well with modern tools the super nintendo is just more capable" that's just fuckin wrong. 1. No one is saying that 2. Playing a WAV file isn't really creating music with sound hardware, it's playing back a recording.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:45:13 2015 No.2409681 >>2409663 >just because literally no one but one guy couldn't be assed to make something impressive with the lack of technical documentation and convoluted workarounds doesn't make it bad Fixed it for you.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:45:49 2015 No.2409684 >>2409671 Here's that TMNT demo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57328/TMNTDEMO.NES

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:47:13 2015 No.2409690 >>2409674 >No one is saying that > you can outright do more with the SNES, full-stop ok

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:48:38 2015 No.2409692 >>2409690 He didn't say you need modern tools to achieve this. He just said t was more capable. Rigging a Genesis to play wav files does not disprove this.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:49:09 2015 No.2409693 >>2409684 I love that song so much thank you

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:50:32 2015 No.2409694 >>2409684 God damn does anon ever deliver.

Anonymous Sun May 17 22:51:27 2015 No.2409696

>>2409692
it's not rigged though you could literally stream wav files during your game if you had enough memory to do that. If you want to stream audio from a SNES you need other chips. If you want to talk about purely programmed audio the genesis can do ANY sound the SNES can make if you program it to. More capable for a lower end user yes maybe.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 22:55:00 2015 No.2409707 >>2409694 Now I just need someone to upload Higurashi.nes from that youtube video mentioned here >>2409671

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:07:53 2015 No.2409736 >>2409696 "streaming a wave file" isn't "composing genesis music" and genesis games never had the memory to do that anyway. It's a tech demo that has no bearing on the "great" debate.

Anonymous Sun May 17 23:19:16 2015 No.2409761

>>2409696
>If you want to stream audio from a SNES you need other chips

Technically you'd need to just code a streaming system that empties and fills the memory buffer and switches playback between the two, all of it tightly synchronized so the sound does not break up.

Streaming on the MD worked a bit like that too, it was just easier since you sent data directly to be played back.

Anonymous Sun May 17 23:20:18 2015 No.2409765

>>2409671
I remember something like this being done, but a tad bit more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTOMyPUCPg

It has been believed that you cannot play 7-bit PCM samples on the NES while the NES does things, but this demo does the opposite. The colors change and scrolls as the song plays. By comparison, Speak and Spell had Big Bird 'talk' before the samples played to give the illusion he was talking.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:21:08 2015 No.2409767 Posting some epic soundtracks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psSamm93uCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKUOsX_Doww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvGv-hm45GU

Anonymous Sun May 17 23:21:42 2015 No.2409769

>>2409736

It really doesn't. I thought the point was just a little aside to show off what you can do when you abuse the hardware and push it to its limits. There's no real reason for the SNES not to be able to do the same. You guys need to chill and post more music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E2Nr39Odzk
I also suggest the Intro theme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BazmPJFqhKk
Also more Turtles because fuck yeah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THAb2CqT274

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:23:33 2015 No.2409775 >>2407257 now that i listen to the instrumentation of the genesis version of ewj, they sound quite crappy due to still being the dreaded gems soundriver

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:26:17 2015 No.2409784 >>2409636 >not using proper rips of SNES music EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwAhp0Eu5M

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:28:07 2015 No.2409793 >>2409784 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLO4f9cjP7U whateva I do what I want

Anonymous Sun May 17 23:32:00 2015 No.2409807

>>2409761
Tales of Phantasia did this for the voice samples. There's no way the APU can hold a full song's worth of voice, so it had to be streamed in.

I'm still trying to figure out how the fuck they got the timing down. The APU has no way to interrupt the CPU or vice versa.

It's actually a really tricky problem on the SNES, but the payoff would be huge.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:35:47 2015 No.2409813 >>2409665 >>2409670 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzfPAlsNJeU&index=5&list=FLU-wglRl26ia8t-nxvPAvBg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNbe8O6X2aE

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:38:39 2015 No.2409823 >>2409813 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sik2J2ZYZgg

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:41:41 2015 No.2409825 I owned both a sega and snes back in the day. Sega sounds like ear cancer delivered in a tin can. Both had their good games though. There was no console war in my house.

Anonymous Sun May 17 23:46:15 2015 No.2409839

>>2409657
>but what Genesis games actually did anything remotely close to that?

None of them because it took ridiculous cart space at the time to do it. The SEGA voice at the start of Sonic 1 took a frankly absurd portion of the ROM, and yet it ended up being the most iconic thing the entire series ever did.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 17 23:52:15 2015 No.2409849 >>2409839 ^truth >I can hear it even now. "SEGAAAA!!!!!"

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 00:06:38 2015 No.2409872 >>2409671 >>2409765 Cool tech demos bros, but they're just that: tech demos. You can bet the NES is working at near-full capacity just to stream that audio, which leaves little power left for the actual game you would be playing.

Anonymous Mon May 18 00:11:42 2015 No.2409884

good genesis music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppEf0W27Enk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSTlRNa42cY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BWIhYsFPEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyFJNN1IMDY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG1c2U4ld2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRpBs1coBns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKayhY5ieBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfShCLcipk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDjD5rM8Apg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucDrkkqJ4as

Anonymous Mon May 18 00:14:08 2015 No.2409891

SNES had a better musically inclined chip.

MD had a better sound processor for effects.

They were both awesome and proof that console wars used to be about both sides being fucking awesome rather than some fucking shit-flinging bullshit that's a fight to be king of the shitpile that modern consoles are.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 00:18:04 2015 No.2409894 >>2409813 >>2409823 There's also a variant of it used in a hack's soundtest. The hack is Sonic Boom. It used to be on YouTube but now it's not there anymore. Shame really, it was one of the best YM2612 renditions.

Anonymous Mon May 18 00:35:24 2015 No.2409937

>>2409653
You can do something similar on almost everything. Even the C64 could be coerced into streaming audio like that. You could do that on a stock SNES even, no MSU-1 needed.

There's a neat Sonic hack that uses cart streamed PCM audio for the music called Sonic VR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQ9j2k6KyM
uses a big-ass 6MB ROM (same technique that Super Street Fighter II on the Genesis uses for its 5MB ROM), but it works

doing a whole game soundtrack with streaming PCM on cart would fill up all of your ROM space, so almost no one did this in a production game

Anonymous Mon May 18 03:40:49 2015 No.2410234

>>2409891
>low-resolution sampling more musically inclined technology than FM synthesis

FM synthesis has found use- and still is used all the time in many forms of popular and experimental music. The Genesis uses a scaled-down version of the soundchip from the Yamaha DX7 synthesizer. The biggest limitation in programming it is that it only has four operators instead of six like the DX7, although many people who have actually programmed for the DX7- myself included, will tell you that for many if not most sounds you'll want to make need no more than four operators.
Nobody uses any musical hardware based on the SNES soundchip, or even bothers to emulate it for music creation. Because it sucks... and if you want its sound that bad, you can get the same effect by taking any sample, bitcrushing, and filtering it.

Anonymous Mon May 18 03:46:02 2015 No.2410247
File: 84 KB, 960x720, 1431739585238.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2407205
>Basically, the Megadrive could be made to sound horrible or fuckawesome depending on programmer, while the SNES always sounded mediocre at best.

THIS.

Nothing on the SNES sounds as bad as the western EA dreck on the Mega Drive but nothing sounds as good as MUSHA or Sonic 2 or Battle Mania Daiginjou.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 03:54:56 2015 No.2410258 Let's be honest here. The PC Engine had the best music of the 4th gen, it's clear and has very great digital instruments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTKwMYmzB8g

Anonymous Mon May 18 03:57:12 2015 No.2410262 [DELETED]

>>2409813
I prefer Genesis music overall. But Tim Follin's stuff on the SNES is fucking unbelievable, nothing muffled or bland about them like 99% SNES music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODKKILZiYY
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Q0s95SRXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqgCsdFaJlU

Anonymous Mon May 18 03:58:31 2015 No.2410267

I prefer Genesis music overall, but Tim Follin's stuff on the SNES is fucking unbelievable, nothing muffled or bland about them like 99% SNES music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODKKILZiYY
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Q0s95SRXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqgCsdFaJlU

Anonymous Mon May 18 04:01:18 2015 No.2410275

>>2410234
>Nobody uses any musical hardware based on the SNES soundchip, or even bothers to emulate it for music creation.

Eh, not the SNES specifically, but low bit samplers are used in all sorts of electronic music

I like my FM synths, but if I had to make a video game soundtrack I'd rather use the SNES hardware, it's easier to get the sound you want and its more versatile

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 04:10:55 2015 No.2410285 >>2410258 if you count computers, amiga was clearly the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQSsq7HCNHw

Anonymous Mon May 18 04:11:14 2015 No.2410286

I've seen the S-SMP and the music created with it lauded for years on end, with the unimpressed shrugging "not for me" at worst. Allllll of a sudden I'm seeing "low quality samples" and "muddy sound" being bleated left and right (as if MD music was crystal clear), exclusively here on 4chan. Gee, I wonder what could possibly account for this.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 04:23:25 2015 No.2410298 >>2410286 john chowning has decided to start shilling on 4chan?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 04:27:35 2015 No.2410302 >>2410258 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5lIKAnYOeM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qTeTkeRxR0 pcengine had great music

Anonymous Mon May 18 04:32:44 2015 No.2410306

>>2410275
>more versatile
Bro, do you even FM Synthesis?

By using slow envelopes, you can get slowly evolving sounds that would require streaming direct from cartridge judt to play in their entirety, and would end up being prohibitively large for a time where data storage was at a premium. Heavy use of that technique is arguably the reason that people hold the soundtrack of the Genesis version of Earthworm Jim in higher regard.
And please say that you can't get good orchestral sound on It, because World of Illusion and Shining Force 2 do it very well, and because of what I just mention, end up being far more dynamic in their timbre.
The one thing I do think the SNES has over the Genesis sound is a basic reverb algorithm. It really gives a cool ambience to the game's sound and music when used properly.

Anonymous Mon May 18 04:32:51 2015 No.2410307

The Megadrive had better FM synth, but suffered from developers using crappy 8 bit PCM voice samples. SNES was more balanced overall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofmHCsZMMjw&index=2&list=PL0D7D875A11C51ECE
Crazy good FM synth. Composer universally panned by game magazines in the 90's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfNC108q0ug&list=PL9A1188E467E422A0&index=14
Garbage, but who the fuck would care with such masterful composition?

Don Rumata !!rYqzYYFAejo Mon May 18 04:42:54 2015 No.2410317

>>2410298
No, but you've got the first mention of Chowning in /vr/ history (according to archive.moe).

>>2410307
SoR3 isn't a flattering example for anyone involved. Backlash aside, Koshiro has been lionized since his name appeared on the Revenge of Shinobi title screen.

I wonder how Koise would have used the YM2612, or Umemoto.

>no Hybrid Front posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkcp8CEksBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPBdWjb9DIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdbCTq2WA-Y

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 04:46:09 2015 No.2410319 I appreciate both. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Dcd-0-JVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dll0opu5D6g

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 04:59:13 2015 No.2410331 >>2410317 It was a god damn masterpiece, and probably Yuzo's greatest work.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 05:02:51 2015 No.2410336 Isn't the Genisis music hardware very similar to the AdLib OPL chip for DOS games? Its the same case as the genesis at least where it needs hard programming to sound good. Most sound like ass, but some sound great (Tyrian, Descent)

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 05:04:50 2015 No.2410338 >>2407195 Mega drive games sound bloody awful. That synth....

Anonymous Mon May 18 05:42:25 2015 No.2410383

>>2410338
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wPRwE6ItnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLr9v66-MBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pueJhc9XF1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB_mOsI-ddM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHKBRWaxQpU

I genuinely can't see how you would find this awful.

Anonymous Mon May 18 06:11:53 2015 No.2410420
File: 115 KB, 500x357, 1411990530903.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

There's a ton of pros and cons for both.

SNES requires less technical programming knowledge for musicians, so the barrier of entry for acceptable sounding music is going to make sure that the shovelware titles end up sounding better, which definitely put a dent in Mega Drive's reputation, since those American and European cash grabs sound like fucking ass (thank you GEMS).
But if you know your way around the YM2612 it can output richer sound with a great timbre to it, while the SNES chip since it can only output low quality samples it ends up sounding really flat *most* of the time.
But another downside to the YM2612 is that you really need good sounding equipment for it to sound good, and for most of us growing up with a shitty CRT with shitty built-in speakers even the good soundtracks sounded really piercing to the ear, FM synth can get really jarring to the ear if not in ideal conditions. While the SNES music was never too aggressive and more natural sounding, so in the least it could output pretty well by shitty built-in crt speakers, and definitely masking its flaws.
In that time period I think that Nintendo definitely won the sound race, leaving a more general positive impression on most gamers, but nowadays we can hear how the sound quality isn't that impressive, while the YM2612 still manages to output impressive and rich sounds, musicians still use FM Synth for a reason.
Now, I think it's pointless to point out that both have great OSTs that knew how to use the capabilities of the hardware they were using, you can easily try to one-up one another by posting great songs and trying to say that this is better than the other, but you'll soon find that both had an immense amount of great songs, and we can both do this dance all day. But, I think that the YM2612 has an incredibly bad rep, and an unwarranted one. Please leave the impressions you had of it as a kid at the door and consider listening to it again with a good pair of headphones in your head.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 06:12:02 2015 No.2410423 IDGAF if this has been posted yet or not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyEbu8cmMg

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 06:34:51 2015 No.2410445 >>2407203 Yeah, it was called Megaman X3. I highly doubt it could've sounded the same on TG16 or Genesis.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 06:37:56 2015 No.2410449 Megaman x would sound bad-arse on mega drive. Unfortunately, megaman is one of those nintendonly series. Shame.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 06:45:50 2015 No.2410457 >>2410449 Mega Man: The Wily Wars

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 08:51:58 2015 No.2410561 >>2410457 Sucks major arse, not even a megaman game.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 08:56:21 2015 No.2410571 >>2410457 Wily Wars is a terrible example. Even beyond the sound, it was just a lazy game. A mishmash of old sprites and new sprites that don't match up. Capcom really screwed the pooch on that game..

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 08:58:07 2015 No.2410575 >>2410561 >>2410571 I'm just stating that a megaman game exists for the Mega Drive, I'm making no judgement on it, positive or negative.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 10:20:43 2015 No.2410707 >>2410575 Well you should've known better not to mention mega man game that FUCKING SUCKS: there are not that much of those.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 10:48:32 2015 No.2410743 SNES's is more technically impressive but I prefer the genesis's. It just had more oomph to it whereas the SNES usually sounded flat and muffled, imo.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 11:33:30 2015 No.2410813 NEO GEO

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 11:37:59 2015 No.2410823 >>2407195 The SNES lacked a Sythn if im correct, and the Mega Drive had a Yamaha Synth, wich if used correctly gave more punchy sounds, the Snes sounds always sound kinda muddy, for example Super Metroid sound FX sound kinda lame.

Anonymous Mon May 18 11:42:52 2015 No.2410830

>>2407195
Lets face it, the true Hardware Beast of the 16 Bit era was the NEO GEO, the Genesis VS SNES thing is stupid considering how adavanced was the NEO GEO at the time, everything looked and sounded way better, the sprites had more animations, the overall speed was incredible, and the sound, man the music on NEO GEO games made the "advanced" SNES Sound Chip look like a fucking baby toy.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:00:58 2015 No.2410939 >>2410823 I really wish someone would do a super metroid translation on the genesis. I fucking love SM and I love the music compositions, but it all sounds flat and garbled. It would've sounded kick-ass on the genesis

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:04:03 2015 No.2410945 >>2410830 But neogeo uses FM synth just like the genesis.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:06:45 2015 No.2410950 >>2410939 Super Metroid is one game I really can't imagine translated to the Genesis. It has an atmospheric and murky sound to it that I just don't think would work.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:14:43 2015 No.2410963 >>2410939 I'm not gonna bash SM, but it didn't help half of the enemy sound effects and missile sound effects are just one sample over and over again with tweaked settings.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:23:25 2015 No.2410974 >>2410945 Neogeo had 4 adpcm channels and by the end the carts were big enough that they could store the entire soundtrack on those (Metal Slug 4-5 and Matrimelee at least used those).

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:24:46 2015 No.2410979 >>2410950 >It has an atmospheric and murky sound to it that I just don't think would work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Dh2A-MSt8

Anonymous Mon May 18 13:27:10 2015 No.2410985

>>2410830
Except the early Neo Geo games look barely better than SNES/Genesis, it wasn't until 5th gen that NeoGeo started being a thing, with big carts and stuff.

The NeoGeo PCM isn't much better than the SNES, it sounds better just because it has big ass carts.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:29:19 2015 No.2410991 >>2410950 >It has an atmospheric and murky sound to it that I just don't think would work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHnrOdf9EI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Dh2A-MSt8

Anonymous Mon May 18 13:29:28 2015 No.2410993

>>2410823
>The SNES lacked a Sythn if im correct

No, it had one, it was just a fully PCM synth. That used horrible low quality samples and masked those with hardware sample interpolation and echo/reverb effects, that in turn just made everything sound muffled. Kind of the same as with the N64 texture limit and bilinear filtering.

Megadrive had an advanced FM synth, that had 6 channels, plus 1 PCM channel, plus the PSG that could do three additional channels of various more basic waveforms (dunno from the top of my head, but think NES-like).

Anonymous Mon May 18 13:33:42 2015 No.2411007 [DELETED]

>>2410991
The title screen music of Ecco 2 was absolutely blood chilling and I cannot think of a single SNES tune that has as creepy ambient bass.

I mean you just boot up the console and you have an undersea horror Jean Michel Jarre meets Pink Floyd techno-orchestra blasting in your face.

Anonymous Mon May 18 13:37:31 2015 No.2411016

>>2410991
The title screen music of Ecco 2 was absolutely blood chilling and I cannot think of a single SNES tune that has as creepy ambient bass.

I mean you just boot up the console and you have an undersea horror Jean Michel Jarre meets Pink Floyd techno-orchestra blasting in your face. AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN START PLAYING YET.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2_52UjDAg

Anonymous Mon May 18 13:43:52 2015 No.2411028

Here's some videos about frequency modulation (used by the MD sound chip and Yamaha's famous DX7). The first two are short ~2 minute videos, while the others go into more detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Qrn-6JyGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwX_-HoRQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yrd2YvkUo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fajohygIUAs

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:45:04 2015 No.2411031 The Genesis used a somewhat downgraded version of an arcade synth chip right? How hard would it be to get something like this out of the Genny: http://youtu.be/fCKDvjVzpNQ

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:49:47 2015 No.2411047 >>2411031 Since it uses multiple samples and FM synths, your best bet would be to play it from a Genesis and a SNES at the same time.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:52:54 2015 No.2411052 >>2411031 I think that is a YM2151, so the genesis wouldn't have many problems with the instruments. The samples though are a problem.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 13:58:22 2015 No.2411060 >>2411052 Couldn't you do it with SegaCD? Play CD audio and FM synth at the same time.

Anonymous Mon May 18 14:19:45 2015 No.2411108

>>2411060
You could, but it would be a nightmare to code, since the Sega CD is basically a completely separate piece of hardware that communicates with the Megadrive through a series of revolving doors.

Plus at that rate you could do better sound by just going fully for the PCM synth. Or even better, use CD Audio music, PCM synth voices, and FM/PSG for simpler sound effects that don't need voices.

Anonymous Mon May 18 15:08:17 2015 No.2411218

>>2410420
>But another downside to the YM2612 is that you really need good sounding equipment for it to sound good, and for most of us growing up with a shitty CRT with shitty built-in speakers even the good soundtracks sounded really piercing to the ear, FM synth can get really jarring to the ear if not in ideal conditions.

Dude, what you are talking about is the "good" GEMS music and even some European music, like that guy who made Genesis Adventures of Batman & Robin.

REAL good genesis music is in no ways damaging to the ears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqJQxWgOjJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOUlBZ46sAo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7O4prD85pw&index=3&list=PLirSddeMOYZ6SAAAwqxrng79csS-kYCh_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMJxjqbVxoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGW71-7FI1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GNBXk_QBwk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGGUDZg_1cY&list=PLDEFD99F0F01AA70F&index=18

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 15:11:42 2015 No.2411227 >>2407268 >Genesis sound card wtf

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 15:20:05 2015 No.2411252 >>2410336 It's the same family, but it's not the exact same thing.

Anonymous Mon May 18 15:36:28 2015 No.2411290

I think it depends wholly on what kind of music style they're going for

SNES was much better with orchestral sounding things, such as the FF soundtrack, while the Genesis was better at "rocking out" so to speak.

Here's a comparison I commonly see posted when this topic is discussed:

SNES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l16a99w989o

Genesis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPr4V1c2VqA

Anonymous Mon May 18 15:40:11 2015 No.2411294

>>2411290
While I agree on your conclusion (SNES is better at orchestra, Megadrive better at rocking the fuck out), those youtube comparisons are extremely unfair: the MD is running a full Amiga MOD player for that tune. It eats up too much CPU time to be feasible in-game, although it is one of the most incredible feats pulled on the machine audio-wise that made it into a retail game.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 15:47:32 2015 No.2411318 >>2410307 >to this day, people still bash sor3 music GOD FUCKING DAMN IT

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 15:48:40 2015 No.2411325 >>2411294 I wasn't aware of that, but I still think it exemplifies perfectly the capability of the Genesis. Did the SNES also have the capability of running a MOD player? Sorry if that's a dumb question, not big on the whole MOD music scene

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 15:49:37 2015 No.2411328 >>2411325 The SNES pretty much IS a mod player.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 15:50:59 2015 No.2411330 >>2411328 why then, didn't they pull off anything as amazing sounding as the aforementioned Toy Story tune? I mean, SNES music sounded good, but it never sounded like THAT... did it?

Anonymous Mon May 18 15:53:21 2015 No.2411337

>>2411330
I assume it's because two different teams worked on both.

All the Genesis seems to be doing in that case is playing back samples, which the SNES is fully capable of doing.

Don't know if you've seen Super Turrican, but it's a good example of an Amiga game having a sequel on the SNES. Sounds pretty much like your typical modules.

Anonymous Mon May 18 16:01:27 2015 No.2411350

>>2411330
Because it was limited by small audio memory, which meant it had to use incredibly small, horrible quality samples, plus it masked the differences with sample interpolation, and a lot of echo and reverb effects.

Compare this (Pinball Fantasies intro, on SNES, ~32k samples):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvVcaBgCI3U
to this (Pinball Fantasies intro, original Amiga MOD file, ~188k samples)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTLhWXv2I4A

Note that this is the title track, so it has NO sound effects loaded bar that one menu jingle, almost the entire audio ram is used for the music only. Most in-game tunes have much less space to use for music samples, due to in-game sound effects and voices.

Anonymous Mon May 18 16:06:36 2015 No.2411357

>>2411337
>All the Genesis seems to be doing in that case is playing back samples, which the SNES is fully capable of doing.

No, it is combining the sample output of multiple samples in software, and sending it to the single DAC channel. This takes a lot of power (and also memory bandwidth). It is why only very, very few games managed to play back multiple samples at the same time on the Megadrive, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 was one game I remember to be able to do it, maybe also Beavis & Butthead but I'm not sure on that one (all I remember is that it had ridiculous amount of samples, so it would have been a waste if it could only play back only one at a time).

SNES can do this in hardware (it is a hardware PCM synth), but it is limited to very small audio memory, so small, compressed samples that sound like shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 16:19:01 2015 No.2411375 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvtfq3fyzhc

Anonymous Mon May 18 17:41:59 2015 No.2411526
File: 20 KB, 146x166, why.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2410707
>You shouldn't have mentioned a bad MM game!
>In response to the claim that MM is Nintendonly, I was merely pointing out its existence on the Genesis, regardless of quality.
>Well you shouldn't have mentioned a bad MM!
>The quality is irrelevant to the point being made; Megaman wasn't Nintendonly even back then.
>No! You shouldn't have pointed out WW because it's bad!

Anonymous Mon May 18 18:07:06 2015 No.2411573

>>2410307
>>2411318

People bash BK/SOR3's music because they didn't like the genre, not because of the skill involved in creating it. I freely admit that it isn't my cup of tea, but it's still incredibly well-made given the time of its creation and the hardware involved.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 18:57:46 2015 No.2411681 people who say wily wars sucks are the stupidest faggots ever who never even played it. It does have it's issues but it has one feature that more than makes up for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 19:02:03 2015 No.2411695 >>2410307 lol that sor3 track sounds like they're trying to make gabber with the genesis chip or something

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 19:18:17 2015 No.2411746 >>2411681 Shit, I must really piss people off because I think the music actually sounds rather good considering the original compositions and their translations to the Genesis.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 19:19:37 2015 No.2411750 >>2411681 It must be nice to live in your own little world where only one opinion is right and anybody who has a different opinion than yours obviously didn't experience the same thing you did

Anonymous Mon May 18 19:24:10 2015 No.2411761

>>2411750
wily tower bitch or just keep spouting other peoples opinions on how shitty it is. At least in my world where only my opinion is right I make informed decisions instead of parroting things I read on /vr/ now get the fuck out of here you shitty kid

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 19:26:09 2015 No.2411765 >>2411761 You sound like a very logical and reasonable human being. Not only do you accuse people with different opinions of not playing things but now you call them kids too. Well done.

Anonymous Mon May 18 19:27:40 2015 No.2411770

>>2411761
>spouting other peoples opinions on how shitty it is
>parroting things I read on /vr/
When did I do any of that? I didn't even make a statement on the quality of the game. I just said that it's stupid to baselessly accuse people of not playing something just because they have a different opinion. You need to calm down, man.

Anonymous Mon May 18 19:30:27 2015 No.2411774

>>2411765
You can't play wily tower and still think the game is shit.

>>2411770
they can't have that opinion if they actually played wily tower. You get to pick ANY of the power ups from the first 3 mega man games and play through some original levels, that alone makes wily wars worth owning even if you don't care for the shoddy ports. People who haven't played wouldn't know about its existence.

>>	Don Rumata !!rYqzYYFAejo Mon May 18 20:07:11 2015 No.2411909 >>2411052 I don't recall the YM2151 having a PCM channel for samples, though it's often paired with one (like SegaPCM or the MSU in the X68000). Chip's mostly FM operators + some PSG.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 20:10:10 2015 No.2411926 >>2411909 It's a YM2151 plus other sample soundchips, but there is a YM2151, just listen those instruments.

Anonymous Mon May 18 20:28:27 2015 No.2411960
File: 8 KB, 240x240, 79.70.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Sorry if this has already been said, but I totes forgot the SNES APU has a PMON register for pitch modulation. PMON can be applied to 7 of the 8 available voices. It seems like you could do FM synth like on the Genesis to a limited capacity, the limit being no choice of FM synth 'algorithms'.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 20:34:57 2015 No.2411974 >>2411960 You can't really do much with 1 oscillator FM. Just basic bell sounds.

Anonymous Mon May 18 21:03:49 2015 No.2412012

>>2411974
I just learned about FM synth in this thread, and when I first read about the SNES APU years ago I didn't understand the point of PMON. Now it's becoming more clear.

When you enable PMON for a particular voice n, the APU modulates pitch with the output of voice n-1. It seems like you could chain modulation over several voices and output on the last one to get more interesting timbres. This isn't as configurable as the YM2151 algorithms, but I wonder if you can achieve similar effects on the SNES as the Genesis using this technique...

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 21:16:53 2015 No.2412051 >>2409684 >ExROM Oh, cool, I can run this off of a Castlevania 3 cart.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 21:30:21 2015 No.2412078 >>2410963 i never liked the bomb explosion effect.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 21:31:34 2015 No.2412080 >>2410985 the NEO GEO had more sprite animations, despite early games looking "Similar", and also no slow downs.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 21:39:18 2015 No.2412097 >>2407195 Genesis was more an "Arcade" sounding console, you know with bright crisp tones and punchy reverbered snare drums, while the snes sound more muffled on that aspect, but on more orchestral sounds it was better.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 18 21:40:30 2015 No.2412103 >>2412097 I hope we can all agree that bumpin arcade jams are better than jrpg wanna be epics then.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 19 13:09:24 2015 No.2413505 >>2412103 yeah

Anonymous Tue May 19 20:39:18 2015 No.2414895

Hey guys,

I remix old videogame songs:

Starfox:
https://soundcloud.com/raul-chaves-b/corneria

Top Gear:
https://soundcloud.com/raul-chaves-b/top-gear

Castlevania:
https://soundcloud.com/raul-chaves-b/what-is-a-man

Streets of rage:
https://soundcloud.com/raul-chaves-b/fighting-in-the-streets

>>	Anonymous Tue May 19 20:51:49 2015 No.2414916 >>2409684 woah, that is a feat. I'm trying to imagine how expensive a 1MB cart would have been then...

>>	Anonymous Tue May 19 21:08:19 2015 No.2414942 >>2411318 It's hard-ass techno. Most people aren't going to like it. I say it fits the game perfectly in every way though. It's got this aggressive sound that gets you in the mood to go crazy. and Fuze is one of my favorite songs on the soundtrack

>>	Anonymous Tue May 19 21:12:41 2015 No.2414958 >>2414942 It's got a few really bad tracks that bring down the overall product. SoR2 was more consistent. Fuze really is awesome.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 19 21:17:26 2015 No.2414969 >>2414895 >são paulo, brazil >top gear Heh, não estou surpreso. Muito bom trabalho, aliás. :)

>>	Anonymous Tue May 19 21:39:18 2015 No.2415009 >>2411909 I wonder how much it would have cost sega to include a better sample chip like the segapcm in the genesis. drum samples on the genesis are really crappy sometimes.

Anonymous Wed May 20 00:02:22 2015 No.2415280

>>2415009
much of that was due to poor programming more than anything else
but man, it would have been nice to have had a sample chip in the Genesis, even if just for better drums

It wasn't going to happen though, not for a home machine released in 1988. Would have been expensive at the time.

The Genesis just exposes the DAC to the programmer and lets them feed sample data to it as they see fit.
Some of the characteristic sound is from the sample stopping mid playback because it's interrupted each frame or something, I can't remember the details.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 00:03:38 2015 No.2415282 File: 14 KB, 385x266, jurassic park.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Jurassic Park's music simply was not possible on the Genesis.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 00:50:30 2015 No.2415359 >listening to this on speakers with good bass. dem synth sweeps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxpEMLXlbe8

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 00:54:30 2015 No.2415365 >>2415280 mega turrican has good drums https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Br4w8KkMPw

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 01:18:08 2015 No.2415396 >>2412080 >and also no slow downs Lol, did you even played Metal Slug 2? Yes, the NeoGeo is more powerful than the SNES and Genesis, but it's not the muh 2D heaven that fanboys imply.

Anonymous Wed May 20 01:22:17 2015 No.2415403

Comparisons like this are mostly pointless, because the technologies underpinning both sound chips are RADICALLY different.

SNES: Sample playback
Genesis: FM synthesis

It's virtually impossible establish reasonable metrics to compare the two. Other than the fact that both chips output sound, they are incomparable on a technical level.

It's a little similar to the old N64 vs PS1 graphics debate where you have

A greater number of lit, textured polygons
vs
A smaller number of lit, textured, perspective correct, z-buffered, sub-pixel accurate, anti-aliased polygons

About the only thing you can establish with the sound chips is the quality of the output sound, but that's more dependent on the quality of the composition and sound programming.

So then you are comparing people and not sound chips. That's another type of discussion.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 01:23:43 2015 No.2415406 >>2415396 neogeo is a fighter's heaven though

Anonymous Wed May 20 03:52:42 2015 No.2415582

>>2411028
This right here is probably the best post in this thread. No fanboyism, just relevant facts.
FM synthesis gets a lot of flak for being hard to program, but I personally don't even find it to be very difficult.
The two big things I've found in using it is that first, it helps to forget what you know about programming most other forms of synthesis. Usually, best practice in synthesis is to shape the timbre you're going for, and work out the amplitude envelope (volume) last. My normal route in working with FM synthesis is to work on the output carrier(s) first to get the volume curve I'm going for, and then work backwards in order to shape the timbre, having each operator modulate at lesser amounts as I go back through the chain.
I've also found that it helps to have an idea of what each modulator:carrier ratio sounds like. At one point I kept a list of some of the ratios I'd be most likely to use, and what they sounded like to me when set to about 50% modulation. (saxophone, clarient, violin, tubular bell, whatever). Not very scientific, but it's far more effective than you'd think— especially when taking into effect the different preset algorithm patterns in Yamaha's interpretation of FM. Nowadays I generally don't need it, and if I'm really getting technical I'm more likely to just run the outuput into a spectrum analyzer plugin in order to actually see how the frequencies are shaping out versus what I'm going for, though I realize that method would not have been available to many people in the late 80s/early 90s.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 10:35:19 2015 No.2416106 I know this isn't /r/ but can someone tell me which game this song comes from? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SabxiZskYjc It has a vapor trail vibe but it doesn't seem to be part of the OST.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 11:10:53 2015 No.2416136 File: 2 KB, 210x230, 1348338264286.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2416106 thunder force iv - stand up against myself

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 11:15:14 2015 No.2416140 Decades later and the consolewars will never stop. I love you guys.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 11:59:38 2015 No.2416197 >>2415396 SOME games have OCCASIONAL slowdowns, but its not like i the snes hwere verything is fucking slow.

Anonymous Wed May 20 12:30:53 2015 No.2416249

The Mega Drive versions of The Legend of Heroes I and II have some of the best music I've heard on the console.

https://youtu.be/fCMsbMzvZ4A
https://youtu.be/LaHIRhzXQyU
https://youtu.be/Qo7pdduFCqo

>>2410571
I really like how Hard Man turned out, though. https://youtu.be/gzU4wBhvSQE

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 12:50:04 2015 No.2416289 >>2414895 SoR is ok, other is shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 13:29:14 2015 No.2416368 >>2407195 the snes doesn't have versions which sound like shit. ya'll can go back and forth over this all you want. but the snes simply does not have that issue.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 13:45:04 2015 No.2416392 >>2409531 You're my hero anon

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 18:03:45 2015 No.2416912 >>2416249 falcom did amazing things with fm.

Anonymous Wed May 20 18:14:39 2015 No.2416943

>>2416249
Really? 3 was arguably the worst sounding game on The Wily Wars. It does have some good sounding tunes despite what others say. They could be better, but they're listenable. Unsurprisingly, the best sounding tunes were actually the ones composed specifically for it in the Wily Tower game.

I liked how Bubbleman and Quickman sounded.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 19:24:13 2015 No.2417071 One of my favourites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAgFPqsTAyw

>>	Don Rumata !!rYqzYYFAejo Wed May 20 19:49:36 2015 No.2417123 >>2416912 I believe SEGA's in-house musicians arranged the music for Falcom's Mega Drive ports as part of the Sega-Falcom partnership. But yeah, Falcom flourished through FM.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 20:03:36 2015 No.2417157 For an idea of what SNES samples normally sound like: https://soundcloud.com/aslkaz/dkc2-samples https://soundcloud.com/aslkaz/plok-samples

>>	Anonymous Wed May 20 20:36:44 2015 No.2417216 >>2417123 I think it's confirmed that Tokuhiko Uwabo did Ys 1 on the Master System, it explains why that port's music reminded me so much of Phantasy Star.

Anonymous Thu May 21 01:29:53 2015 No.2417704

>>2407203
Actually, yes. A lot of SNES games, particularly early titles, draw from the same library of audio samples, and due to the way samples were compressed and processed on the SNES, they tend to have a distinctive sound. Apparently, Nintendo forced developers to use the same sound driver in all their games, which took the 32 channels available to the SPC700 and effectively cut them down to 8 by drowning everything in reverb. The SNES's sound can basically be summed up as primitive audio compression, reverb, and recycled samples. While a lot of SNES games had great music, in terms of strict sound quality, the SNES was quite mediocre. I'd love to hear what the SPC700 sounds like without Nintendo's mandatory sound driver, but outside of demoscene productions, there just isn't anything.

Now, with the Genesis/Megadrive, it had an onboard FM synth, PSG, and one sample channel. Developers were allowed to program their own sound drivers, and generally had more freedom with what they could do with the sound chip, but due to the complexity of FM synth programming, a lot of titles ended up having terrible audio. With skilled sound programming however, the Genesis was capable of some absolutely incredible music, with cleaner sounding audio than the SNES to boot.

To summarize, the SNES was easier to make music for due to its greater emphasis on samples, and the average sound quality was acceptable, but overall mediocre. The Genesis was based more around synthesized music, and as such, the sound quality ranged from absolutely terrible to unbelievably awesome.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 21 01:43:10 2015 No.2417719 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH5g_dD5ri0 https://youtu.be/u_NT0DyllDk?list=PL0782E73A88D7D5F8 I feel bad for anyone who has the SNES version.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 21 02:06:41 2015 No.2417740 >>2407195 sample tables vs fm synth snes better emulates instruments and genesis chip is an instrument https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObJVuRTIIS4

>>	Anonymous Thu May 21 02:11:59 2015 No.2417743 File: 51 KB, 500x711, 1430181101775.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2417740 >snes better emulates instruments and genesis chip is an instrument \thread

Anonymous Thu May 21 02:15:53 2015 No.2417750

>>2417704
The SPC700 has only 8 channels, period.
Reverb is done by using part of the SPC's 64kB sound RAM as a buffer, and mixing delayed sample data onto it with the DSP, rather than using more channels.
There are also many different SNES sound drivers used in commercial games.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 21 02:16:45 2015 No.2417752 >>2409872 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnON2Zq1tA

>>	Anonymous Thu May 21 02:42:35 2015 No.2417781 >>2417750 Yeah, that guys a loon. Also, I have disassembled and commented SM's sound driver, but it's versioned like a Nintendo driver. I wonder what other games use the same program.

Anonymous Thu May 21 07:02:21 2015 No.2418056

>>2417719
The SNES version is kinda cute, but seriously - those arrangements are some of the worst of the 16-bit era. Definitely not a great example of what the SNES can do music-wise.

Now, the Mega Drive version on the other hand... Holy shit, it's even better than the PC-X8 OST in some areas.

https://youtu.be/6U3vfXincf0

>Noriyuki Iwadare and Yoshiaki Kubodera will never arrange Ys music ever again.
>Good FM music will never be in vogue again.

What did we do to deserve this?

Anonymous Thu May 21 07:10:08 2015 No.2418063

>>2417123
>>2417216

Sega was doing the grunt work, while Falcom participated for planning, music and such. Hirofumi Matsuoka (a ex-Falcom Sound Team J.D.K. member) confirmed his involvement in LoH I MD (which even has a couple of unused tracks that were used in LoH II MD) - he worked on that at that time, while the rest of Falcom's sound staff was working on the soundtrack for "Ys IV".

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]