/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2405742]

Are Build games considered 2.5D or 3D? Because it says the engine can use voxels for the weapons and stuff.

[Anonymous No.2405745]

also was Quake the only DOS/early PC fps to use polygons for everything?

[Anonymous No.2405750]

>>2405742
>It is generally considered to be a 2.5D engine as the basic world geometry is two-dimensional with an added height component, allowing each sector to have a different ceiling and floor height. Floors and ceilings can hinge along one of the sector's walls, resulting in a simple slope. With this information, the engine renders the world in a way that looks three-dimensional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build_engine

>>2405745
>also was Quake the only DOS/early PC fps to use polygons for everything?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_%28video_game%29

>The game engine developed for Quake, the Quake engine, popularized several major advances in the 3D game genre: polygonal models instead of prerendered sprites; full 3D level design instead of a 2.5D map; prerendered lightmaps; and allowing end users to partially program the game (in this case with QuakeC), which popularized fan-created modifications (mods).

It doesn't say if it was first, but it does say it was a big deal. So either the first or one of the first.

[Anonymous No.2405789]

Uhhhh stink like dead baboon in here!

[NESfag No.2405841]

2.5D because the engine is not 3D

>>2405745
Terminator Future Shock used 3D models for enemies, and was true 3D iirc, but weapons were sprites

>>2405750
I'd say DN3D popularized mods before Quake came out.

[Anonymous No.2406106]

>>2405841
>DN3D popularized mods before Quake came out.
No more than Doom already did, I'd say. There were megawads and gameplay mods coming out as early as 1994.

[Anonymous No.2406124]

>>2406106
Pretty sure Wolf3d had early mods as well.

[Anonymous No.2406126]

oh barney doom
how I wished I knew how to install you correctly

[Anonymous No.2406241]

>>2405745
Descent was 2 years before Quake

[Anonymous No.2406247]

>>2405745
Depending on how narrow you consider the FPS genre, X-Wing was polygonal in 1993 and MS Flight Simulator was polygonal in 1988

[Anonymous No.2406251]

>>2406124
It did. Supposedly Id were impressed that fans were making mods for Wolf3D and intentionally designed Doom to be moddable as a response. Doom is really the first big "mod our game pls" release, and I don't really think anything between Doom & Quake really built upon that mod focus as much.

[Anonymous No.2406254]

>>2405745
"DOS/early" is a bit of a difficult qualifier. You had DOS games well into the Windows 95 period, and even plenty use of 3D accelerators.
You got stuff like Archimedean Dynasty/Schleichfahrt or MDK, or Extreme Assault

[Anonymous No.2406256]

>>2405745
Not sure if it fits here, but Comanche 3 used fully polygonal models.

[NESfag No.2406330]

>>2406251
>>2406106
DN3D had the incredibly simple con coding system with instructions on how to use it within; and there was even a msg encouraging people to mess with it.

it also had the level editor included with instructions on a lot of things from basics to complicated effects.

All this worked too, and the fact that the game was released just when the internet connections in home was getting more widespread made the whole thing have a big impact.
That and online deathmatch and co-op play, too, through services like Ten.

There was already a huge modding/mapping and online community for DN3D before Quake was released.

I would also say that not everyone could play Quake at release, it was a privilege for rich people with powerful computers. Everyone could play DN3D.

I'm not trying to say Doom or Quake had no impact, I'm just saying that people tend to easily forget how huge DN3D modding/mapping and online play was.

[Anonymous No.2406335]

>>2406256
And it used voxels for the landscape!

[Anonymous No.2406347]

>>2406335
Almost everything by NovaLogic did, and a few other games. It was a very viable option before 3D accelerators were a thing. The subject was polygons though.

[Anonymous No.2406586]

The DOS polygon thread got deleted for some reason, but I'll ask it here, could someone post a full list of DOS games that use polygons in the graphics? I am looking for more 3D DOS games.

[Anonymous No.2406592]

>>2406586
You're kidding, right? Too many to mention. Give a genre or two, whether you want textures or not, timeframe ...

[Anonymous No.2406595]

>>2406586
>>2406592
and it might help to mention what you already have played, to avoid repeats

[Anonymous No.2406603]

>>2406592
I have played the well-known FPS games like Doom and Douk, plus Looking Glass games.

Also would like games that use gouraud shading if I must specify a preference.

[Anonymous No.2406616]

>>2406330
Quake was definitely more versatile in terms of how you could mod it though

[Anonymous No.2406618]

>>2406603
X-Wing/Tie Fighter series is a good start. Gouraud is kind of tricky, I think. When games started using it, they also went textured most of the time.

[Anonymous No.2407709]

>>2406330
>con coding system
Oh, I actually remember that now. Right you are. That was pretty nifty.

Of course I foolishly used it to permenently ruin my original installation because I never backed up settings. Firing the RPG would instantly kill anything within line of sight of the explosion, myself included. And of course it fucked up any chance of playing multiplayer over modem because I desynced instantly with my Sanic speed. Funny how I forgot all about these events until just now.

[Anonymous No.2407732]

probably not the best place to ask but does anyone know how I can play Shadow Warrior and Blood on a modern rig?

[Anonymous No.2407792]

>>2407732

Buy it on either Steam or GoG, it comes with DOSbox and plays without complication

[NESfag No.2407816]

>>2407732

I say stick to dosbox, change the controls to WASD+mouse in the settings, and if you think mouselook is weird install bmouse.

Shadow Warrior has 2 sourceports, SWP and Redux on Steam. imo none of the two are actually any good and I'd stick to DOSbox.

There is a dosbox version of Shadow Warrior for free on Steam too.

For Blood you have no choice but to use dosbox. The game is rather demanding in dosbox though, with a 2,5ghz dualcore I could only play it at 320*200 for it to run smooth; with a 3,2ghz quadcore I can finally run it at 800*600. I don't think number of cores matter for dosbox though.

[Anonymous No.2407864]

>>2407816

>Shadow Warrior has 2 sourceports, SWP and Redux on Steam. imo none of the two are actually any good

Post a picture of your black rimmed glasses and plaid shirt

[NESfag No.2408070]

>>2407864
In Redux you're forced to use a true 3D renderer which looks very different from what Build is.

SWP has quite a few annoying gtliches.

Some of the makers of EDuke32 have been working on and off on a SW sourceport though, so maybe one day we'll have a decent one.

And I'm not the kind of guy who'd go all "play as the devs intended; CRT scanline shaders;" etc

[Anonymous No.2408189]

>>2406254
>Extreme Assault
>in the picture there's a billboard texture

[Anonymous No.2408207]

>>2408189
>in the picture there's a billboard texture

[Anonymous No.2408218]

>>2408207
Indeed, we didn't get polygonal special effects until Quake II.

[Anonymous No.2408228]

>>2408218
And we're still using billboards for a reason

[Anonymous No.2408234]

>>2408228
ok, technically just textured primitives, not billboards. Still, there are moments where a billboard is the most efficient approximation, and avoiding it out of principle is not the most useful. The sharp outlines of explosions in Quake 2 were not too helpful, for example

[Anonymous No.2408304]

>>2406247

You are absolutely retarded. Flight sims are not FPS dumbass fucker fuck

[Anonymous No.2408308]

>>2408304
Your view is first person, you're shooting. The FPS genre was relatively rare back then, and I figured people might be interested in the broader picture of the time

[Anonymous No.2408313]

>>2408228
>>2408234
They might be useful and efficient, but I still dislike them. There is something oddly satisfying about models without textures, like ZF without C.

[Anonymous No.2408320]

>>2408313
all of Quake is textured. I fully agree on untextured models, though the models need to be designed for that.
I just don't think it's cool to drop a technology for the sake of dropping it. Be it billboards or untextured polygons, or voxels, or ...

[Anonymous No.2408659]

>>2405742
>voxels for the weapons and stuff
This has nothing to do with what the "2.D" term means.

[Anonymous No.2408679]

>>2408313
Bravo, was not expecting the math pun/reference.

[Anonymous No.2408798]

>>2407732
There's a fork of an early eDuke32, called
Jonof's Shadow Warrior or something

[Anonymous No.2408946]

>>2407732
SWP for Shadow Warrior