/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2395771]

I just don't understand. Can someone help me understand why S3&K is considered the best? You criticize other games in the series for having obtuse and overbearing level design, constant reusual of set pieces, gimmicks that break the pace and completely automated speed sections, yet when S3&K does all of these things it's alright? I agree that the soundtrack and visual presentation is fantastic, the exploration it offers is very vast and rewarding, and the addition of Knuckles is a great one, but beyond that I can't derive as much enjoyment from this title as I can from the other classic games.

How many times do you go through the same exact blue slide and up the vertical water shaft room in Hydrocity Act 2? How many times do you have to ride the blue top in Marble Garden to either painfully make your way over to break open a path or zig zag in an automated sequence? Why does Carnival Night keep flip flopping between random boosted speed sections and slow, clumsy movement in needlessly tight spaces? Launch Base takes an eternity and has you constantly going through the same tired stage gimmicks. The same could be said of Flying Battery, Sandopolis, Lava Reef, Hidden Palace and Death Egg Zone.

Most of these levels feel like marathons to slog through. I thought learning from speed runs would help, but it turns out 90% of the S3&K is level wrapping silliness that barely resembles the original game at all.

tl;dr I really want to like this game but don't know how. Help!

[Anonymous No.2395814]

Sonic 2's gimmicks were done poorly and the levels were ridiculously short compared to Sonic 1. Sonic isn't meant to be about speed, it's meant to be about retaining momentum.

[Anonymous No.2395826]

halp

[Anonymous No.2395839]

>>2395814
I didn't know you could keep your momentum when you are periodically forced to stop and hop up and down on a barrel, push blocks or wait for the variety of crushing hazards to move out of the way. This isn't even counting being slammed into various obstacles after running through a speed segment which requires no input from the player and may as well be a glorified cutscene. Sonic 2 is definitely guilty of that in particular, but the level design in that game is a lot more streamlined and focused in comparison.

[Anonymous No.2395848]

>why S3&K is considered the best
Where did you hear that?
Opinions for the "best Sonic game" are very diverse.
Some say Sonic 2 is the best, some say Sonic CD, some S3&K, and others Sonic Adventure 1. Hell, some people think the first one is the best ( first one is my favourite, actually ).
If you don't care as much for S3&K as other people, OP, that's fine. It's not the end of the world. Different tastes.

My only complaint about S3&K is Marble Garden zone. Hate that fucking place so much. The boss fight is cool though.

[Anonymous No.2395862]

>>2395848
CD and 3&K both have faults on top of their strong points.

Sonic 2 was IMO the best. Simple yet long, great level variety, challenging, has a great mixture of running and platforming, multiplayer is way better than in 3, etc. About the only fault I can think of is that the difficulty ramps up way too quickly (the part in Chemical Plant where the water rises up).

[Anonymous No.2395869]

>>2395848
My thing is that most fans have roasted the hell out of other games in the series for being "overrated" yet S3&K remained mostly untouched. You've definitely heard of the likes of Sonic 2, Sonic Adventure 2 and (apparently) Sonic CD for being overrated games, but I think most people tend to agree on the quality of S3&K. I've been going out of my way to find criticisms of the game and I couldn't really come up with anything substantial. Definitely found a lot of ripping on other games in the series while dick riding S3&K though.

[Anonymous No.2395913]

>>2395869
Really the only complaint I have with s3&k is that there's not enough tails areas in the level layouts. Even the base sonic 3 levels favor knuckles areas over tails.

[Anonymous No.2395914]

S&K > S2 > S1 > S3

I've always felt S&K and S3 are two very distinct games, but apparently the rest of the internet disagrees. I can see why, but it still bothers me a bit.

S3 is a good game, but there are a bunch of things that have always put me off. The music is much heavier, and most levels are almost maze-like with multiple paths. Tails not being completely useless is a good thing though.

Sonic CD is a different beast altogether, so I couldn't really compare it to the rest.

[Anonymous No.2395939]

>>2395771
>>2395771
>Can someone help me understand why S3&K is considered the best?
They were flagship titles of the 16bit console wars; hyped as shit, had pretty graphics, great osts and that was and still is enough for the drones that play consoles and don't know gameplay from a barn door.

2 is the best.

>Sonic 2's gimmicks were done poorly
What?

>levels were ridiculously short compared to Sonic 1
Each level has multiple pathways that reward both those that explore and those that play for speed, the gameplay being adequate for both. You wanting one single long route that doesn't reward skill is exactly why 3&K are boring chores.

>Sonic isn't meant to be about speed, it's meant to be about retaining momentum.
AKA
>It's not about going fast it's about not slowing down
Let's not pretend that makes any sense at all. You want to bitch about the spindash, do so.

[Anonymous No.2395987]

>>2395862
>About the only fault I can think of is that the difficulty ramps up way too quickly (the part in Chemical Plant where the water rises up).

You know you can skip the water, right?

[Anonymous No.2396000]

[Anonymous No.2396034]

>>2395771
these sonic threads are getting to be earthbound tier. but here we go with entertaining with a reply anyway...

>I just don't understand. Can someone help me understand why S3&K is considered the best?
it's not considered the best. i personally consider it to be but the general consensus around here is that 2 is the favorite.

>You criticize other games in the series for having obtuse and overbearing level design, constant reusual of set pieces, gimmicks that break the pace and completely automated speed sections, yet when S3&K does all of these things it's alright?
who is "you"? sonic 3&k lovers all say the same thing about other games? o-okay.

>I agree that the soundtrack and visual presentation is fantastic, the exploration it offers is very vast and rewarding, and the addition of Knuckles is a great one, but beyond that I can't derive as much enjoyment from this title as I can from the other classic games.
okay don't play it then.

>How many times do you go through the same exact blue slide and up the vertical water shaft room in Hydrocity Act 2?
never. i'm not an idiot.

>How many times do you have to ride the blue top in Marble Garden to either painfully make your way over to break open a path or zig zag in an automated sequence?
oh you mean repeating the same gimmick? who gives a fuck. and if i recall it's only twice that it matters with the blue tops.

>Why does Carnival Night keep flip flopping between random boosted speed sections and slow, clumsy movement in needlessly tight spaces?
oh do you just want the same thing over and over like you just criticized?

>Launch Base takes an eternity and has you constantly going through the same tired stage gimmicks. The same could be said of Flying Battery, Sandopolis, Lava Reef, Hidden Palace and Death Egg Zone.
okay so do you want the variety of change of pace in carnival night zone or not?

kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.2396547]

>>2395814
>and the levels were ridiculously short compared to Sonic 1

Err what? Sonic 1 acts almost never exceeded 1 minute, with some acts even taking as little as 30 seconds. Sonic 2 acts were usually 1-3 minutes long.

[Anonymous No.2396702]

>>2395814
No it wasn't. Classic Sanic was just about having pinball-like physics in a platformer, with some gimmicky "speed" shit tacked on to impress people and boost sales.

[Anonymous No.2396745]

>>2395862

>the part in Chemical Plant where the water rises up

It's actually not very hard, I think people just panic and try to rush up the steps when they see the water, which makes you fall and die. You can take your time and be okay, you just can't mess up the platforming more than a couple times. Half the time I play I fuck up the timing and fall to the bottom but still have time to carefully jump my way up.