/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2378130]

What do you think of using ZDOOM or a similar thing to play Doom? Is it close enough to the 'authentic Doom experience', or is the original the only way to go?

[Anonymous No.2378134]

It's close enough as long as you don't use freelook, jump or crouch

[Anonymous No.2378289]

>>2378130
It's the best way to play. I play Doom almost every day.

>>2378134
There is nothing wrong with freelook at all.

[Razz No.2378301]

>>2378289
>there is nothing wrong with freelook

Have you seen what the enemies look like in freelook?

[Anonymous No.2378346]

>>2378301
2D sprites? The game always looks like that.

[Anonymous No.2378363]

>>2378130
If you want an "authentic Doom experience" without having a DOS PC (or using DOSBox for that matter), then I suggest looking into Chocolate Doom. It's effectively a straight port of the DOS version to modern Windows.

>>2378289
Using full mouselook (horizontal+vertical), jump, and/or crouch doesn't make it an "authentic" experience. All the original Doom/Doom II had was keyboard and horizontal mouselook as well as some controller support.

[Anonymous No.2378383]

>>2378130
I use Zdoom/GZdoom only if the mod I'm playing needs it.

chocolate-doom for testing map limitations.

crispy-doom for general rendering/AI accuracy but still modern mouselook + map limit removal.

>>2378301
Y shearing is beauty.

[Anonymous No.2378386]

>>2378289
>There is nothing wrong with freelook at all.

No matter how harmless it is, It is not authentic to use vertical mouselook. The original engine could only do horizontal mouselook.

[Anonymous No.2378414]

>>2378130
the biggest issues are rendering issues.

Gzdoom can't get lighting or spectre fuzz correct. This makes the game harder in some parts and easier in others and that changes gameplay from more authentic renderers.

Zdoom software is OK, but only at 320x200.

[Anonymous No.2378486]

>>2378130
I prefer Chocolate Doom for playong the original, because it is closer to the original, but using ZDoom instead isn't something I'd be against.

[Anonymous No.2378518]

>>2378130
I'll tell you when I try it on a good ol' CRT screen with my raspberry pi.

[Anonymous No.2378520]

I use GZDOOM mostly. Best mod support. PRBoom+ ain't bad either. Chocolate when I wanna go old school. Zandronum for multiplayer

[Anonymous No.2378521]

>>2378289
>shoots rockets up into the Icon of Sin

There's lots wrong with freelook. Being able to fire rockets at the feet of enemies is a massive change. I believe the vertical angular range of fire is clamped in Doom, not with freelook. More importantly, freelook changes the whole way you perceive the spaces in the game, which weren't designed for it.

Freelook in Doom source ports is perfectly fine for any content designed for it- that excludes Doom & Doom II.

[Anonymous No.2378525]

>>2378486
...I'm not going to try chocolate doom with that because I don't feel like stacking two layers of pixelation from the DOSish 320x200 and the ~400x300 composite video shadowmask TV.

[Anonymous No.2378526]

>>2378518
...I'm not going to try chocolate doom with that because I don't feel like stacking two layers of pixelation from the DOSish 320x200 and the ~400x300 composite video shadowmask TV.

[Anonymous No.2378530]

>>2378526
Chocolate Doom is mainly for people who grew up with Doom in the 90's, and playtesting maps that are intended to be within vanilla's limits.

PrBoom+ and Eternity are better for classic un-modded gameplay. Maps that require Raised Limits, Boom format, and MBF format all work with these ports, so you don't miss out on many traditional maps.

[Anonymous No.2378581]

It's not nearly close enough. Zdoom changes a lot of things in the game and I never recommend it for vanilla plays. PrBoom can be close enough, Z is for advanced maps.

[Anonymous No.2378652]

Alright, but what do I use for Doom 64? Emulate it, Doom 64 Absolution or Doom 64 EX. Or is there some other better method that I haven't heard of

[Anonymous No.2378675]

>>2378130
it's fantastic, but it ain't accurate

[Anonymous No.2378853]

Is Brutal Doom worth playing, or is it too different from the original to be worth a look?

[Anonymous No.2378869]

>go to /doom/
>everyone's cool with whatever you lik3, only point if contention ever is newfags playing BRTLDM
>these people obsess over Doom daily

>rest of /vr/
>shitting on modern soyrceports and mods
>restrictive over playstyles or options
>these people do not play Doom often Or obsess over it or they'd be in /doom/
Smells like /v/ in here

[Anonymous No.2378872]

>>2378652
D64EX is the go to from what I understand, short of N64 emulation.

[Anonymous No.2378878]

>>2378869
Haven't been on the general for a long time but I recall them opposing jumping and crouching.

[Anonymous No.2378890]

>>2378289
>There is nothing wrong with freelook at all.
Wrong.

There are parts of bigger Doom maps where the auto-aim does not pick up on higher up monsters from the distance. This means that the only way you can shoot those monsters without vertical aim is to actually get closer to them so that your auto aim does pick up on them. Webm related.

Using the autoaim without vertical look is far more limiting to what you can do in Doom. For instance, you could shoot rockets at places without needing the monster to be in view. Also the autoaim limits you in that it will shoot at monsters closer to you rather than a monster that would be more convenient to kill in the distance.

It is FAR more limiting to use horizontal only + autoaim than it is to have full mouse look. This limitation adds to the challenge of the game, too, and it’s better for it. Having full free look without autoaim hardly adds to the challenge anyway considering how slow Doom monsters are. You'd have to be retarded not to be able to simply put your reticule on a cacodemon and fire.

Also please use the general.

[Anonymous No.2378891]

>>2378414
In the options you can change lighting from standard to doom. That alleviates most of the lighting issues.

[Anonymous No.2378924]

zdoom is more than 'purity' enough for a newcomer like you, so feel free to use that.

Just don't run freelook, jump or crouch, and set compatibility flags to doom mode.

All these tryhards in here whinging about freelook - an OPTIONAL - when arguably the most egregious change in zdoom is the different RNG. It's like they're not even trying.

[Anonymous No.2378940]

>>2378872
>look up D64EX
>they're making Powerslave EX now

MUH
FUCKING
DICK

[Anonymous No.2378941]

>>2378130
It's fine. You can use strict compatability mode for classic doom play, the lighting is pretty much proper. If you're looking for authentic styling it also supports 320x200/240 low res. So you can set it up to play more or less like older doom or add some of the newer enhancements like free look and proper mouse aim as well as higher resolution to improve visibility.
It has better sound support than chocolatedoom which kind of has bugged up midi volume through SDL and an older crappier timidity.
You have your choice how classic you want to play or how modern you want.
Either way I'm fond of keeping movement interpolation on for ultra smooth feel.
Play through both of them twice once with classic first and then without and check the differences yourself and then play some more doom and some wads and mods and all sorts of shit however you prefer. It's got something for everyone.


>>2378891
It's not quite the same, it's similar. Also the local player lighting has this weird as fuck halo effect rather than glowing, it's dimmer near and brighter just a bit farther out and then gets darker like it should. Weird as shit looking. Also spectres don't have the proper effect and without low resolution they stand out a lot. Spectres are very difficult to see in medium/darker areas in actual doom, like fucking seriously difficult to see, like actually impossible in some areas while you're moving.

[Anonymous No.2378949]

>>2378924
>when arguably the most egregious change in zdoom is the different RNG. It's like they're not even trying.
whats the difference in the RNG?

[Anonymous No.2378951]

>>2378940
I'd be interesting in trying that since the DOS version was dick for controls. I played the demo as a child. I don't think it was as problematic because I was using strict KB at the time which was a thing but way behind the curve for better players. Trying it again in more recent times it's kind of like, fuck this controls like dick.

[Anonymous No.2378952]

>>2378951
I'm still reading through the blog and still can't figure out if they're going to make the DOS version as well, from all I'm seeing it seems like it's the Saturn / PS1 version. I only played the Saturn version so it would be interesting to play the DOS version as well, since I never actually tried it as I keep hearing that the controls are fucking ass.

[NESfag No.2378953]

>>2378951
> the DOS version was dick for controls.

There are a tips to make Powerslave/Exhumed DOS controls a lot more comfortable
- if you set the "run" key as "capslock", you can actually have autorunning. No need to hold that shift key all the time anymore!
- and if you use that capslock autorunning; you can strafe super fast! The superfast strafing doesn't work with the 'strafe left' and 'strafe right' keys, however it works if you use 'strafekey + left' or 'strafekey + right' (again only if you use the autorunning capslock). So, by settings the Q and D keys to 'left' and 'right' (rather than strafe left/right in a normal WASD setting) and use a key like Lshift or Lctrl as "strafe" key; and hold that key anytime you want to strafe, you can use that superfast strafing.
-not a glitch this time : in this game you have to hold a key to be able to look up/down with the mouse. Well, if you set that key to a mousebutton like RMB or MMB, it makes mouselook much more convenient.... Apparently it's also possible to have toggle mouselook by setting the mouselook key to numlock or scroll-lock

[Anonymous No.2378954]

>>2378949
zdoom uses an actual rng, whereas vanilla doom had a number table it picked from.

as such, zdoom gives a more even, if lower, result.

[Anonymous No.2378957]

>>2378953
I was wondering when you were going to materialize with the mention of Powerslave and 5 minutes into it here you are.

[Anonymous No.2378963]

>>2378890
>This limitation adds to the challenge of the game, too, and it’s better for it.
The first part, agreed, the second part not so much.
It's absolutely a different game and harder for it. I wouldn't say it's better though. It's not quite accurate to say you beat doom with it on though. Because that's a slightly different game.
Though having autoaim off with freelook has it's own challenges. Autoaim doesn't for example give a shit about pitch black. You can hit enemies without seeing them in darker areas. With free aim, you have to hear and aim at them or spray around a bit. IMHO it feels kind of wrong to not point at shit having spent the last two decades basically making it a part of my appendage. It feels like having my hand tied to my chest and trying to punch someone with my elbow. Still classic is the best way to start if you're new to Doom or want to play through old wads designed with exactly the kind of thing you showed.

[NESfag No.2378964]

>>2378957
You're lucky I'm too tired and don't have enough time to make my usual rant about how fantastic and underrated the DOS version is, and how pointless and innacurate re-creations of games in the vein of Powerslave EX are

[Anonymous No.2378968]

>>2378878
Only in levels designed around exploration that jump/crouching break. I mean if you really want to skip half of SiD or BTSX go ahead...

[Anonymous No.2378971]

>>2378964
Well I don't know if pointless is the right word, it's definitely going to be piss-easy to play it with a mouse and keyboard, but hey so is doom 1 & 2 to a lesser extent.
Besides it's going to be moddable, so who knows if it's going to pick up steam and there's going to be exciting maps for it. Someone might even be autistic enough to port the DOS maps into it later on.

[Anonymous No.2378979]

I use plain ol' zdoom

Gzdoom looks too "smooth" for me

[Anonymous No.2379024]

>>2378954
which one is better?

[Anonymous No.2379034]

>>2379024
Puritywise? vanilla.

Actually being an rng? zdoom.

As said, zdoom's give a more even result (ie smoother frequency curve over 100 shots) while vanilla is skewered to higher numbers - that's why a lot of OS players feel the ssg in zdoom-based ports is 'nerfed'.

[Anonymous No.2379119]

>>2378954
Actual RNG like a mersienne twister or RNG like not so random C++ rand function.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hREcJ4CFKI

[Anonymous No.2379138]

>>2378130
The authentic way to play Doom is the shit way to play Doom.

[Anonymous No.2379313]

>muh authentic

Fuck off, there is nothing with aiming or being able to look up and down at enemies that have an advantage.

[Anonymous No.2379340]

>>2379313
Oh, there is. Like when the enemy is down below or high above you and you can see it and shoot it only when looking up/down

[Anonymous No.2379361]

Has anybody ever beaten Plutonia on Nightmare from start to finish without dying? I can't find a video on youtube.

[Anonymous No.2379390]

>>2379361
I've been trying to beat it on HMP for nearly 3 months now.

[Anonymous No.2379401]

>>2379390
>I've been trying to beat it on HMP for nearly 3 months now.
My god... how can you be so bad?

[Anonymous No.2379407]

>>2378872
>>2378652
I love Doom 64, it's my favorite Doom game, it's my favorite N64 game, I played the hell out of it when it was new, still have it, but I will probably never play it on a cart again and I wouldn't recommend doing so for a first timer. Screw >muh authenticity, use a damn mouse, you're not missing anything important.

Freelook on classic doom maps, otoh, is blasphemy.

[Anonymous No.2379413]

>>2379401
I only play 2-3 hours on weeknights, occasionally.

But yeah, I know...getting rusty.

[Anonymous No.2380038]

>>2378924
Nobody was talking about freelook in regards to to sourceport selection. The relevance is if you want to play Doom in a way that captures the developers' intentions or Doom heavily modded/modernized by the inclusion of freelook.

IMO high resolutions & color depths pull away from Doom as well. It's easier to snipe at 1920*1080. Easier to see in the dark with 32-bit color. Not that the game is dumbed down by these changes, but they pull away somewhat from the original's horror elements and emphasis on assaults.

[Anonymous No.2380089]

>>2380038
Its easier to snipe in any version of doom with the damn autoaim, hitscan spread weapons and chaingun trick.

Dooms gunplay is in no way refined or sacred.

[Anonymous No.2380094]

>>2379340
Except that never happens because of infinitely tall actors and crazy autoaim...

[Anonymous No.2380101]

>>2380089
I dunno the modern iteration of SSG jousting in the source ports with no autoaim is pretty damn cool. Making those 180 flick shots is too awesome.

[Anonymous No.2380128]

>>2380101
Thats my point, people growing Doom into new types of gameplay is what makes everything relevant

[Anonymous No.2380131]

>>2378652

>emulation

glitches galore

> absolution

some cool custom maps and changes (some new areas are added into the default maps) but it's a resource hog and it's more or less just a Doom 2 mod that uses fancy doomsday engine effects.

Ex is the way to go for the best experience imo.

[Anonymous No.2380142]

>>2378890

I like to use freelook in Doom 64 EX related stuff. Those 3d stormy skies look pretty good with it.

[Anonymous No.2380164]

>>2378130

Source ports are basically just emulators for a single game engine.

As such, you can get hyper accurate or less accurate, or enhancement sourceports.

ChocolateDoom, despite its dumb name is focused on accuracy and copying the original game and its bugs perfectly. This is nice for preservation.

Zdoom and GZdoom are focused on enhancements.

[Anonymous No.2380186]

>>2378130

also see >>2376850\

[Anonymous No.2380204]

What's the difference between PRboom and Chocolate doom?

[Anonymous No.2380213]

>>2378130
I use ZDoom just about every time, but I don't use freelook at all and try to keep things minimal outside of just being able to play the game. I have no problem with this.

I mean Choc is good and all but ZDoom's become like an old sofa to me in that I'm just so used to it.

[Anonymous No.2380217]

>>2380204
Choc tries to keep it even more pure and works on more machines. That's pretty much it.

[Anonymous No.2380285]

>>2378869

if anything I'm quite curious as of how he could miss the doom general. almost as if he avoided posting his question there.

[Anonymous No.2380725]

>>2380089
>Dooms gunplay is in no way refined or sacred.
The question is whether it's the same game. You can't even talk about the relative merits of the original Doom content versus that of mods, if you're playing the former in a way far from the developer intentions.


>>2380128
>Thats my point, people growing Doom into new types of gameplay is what makes everything relevant

To me Doom is just a good game that later had some cool maps & TCs made for it (haven't played new stuff from the last fifteen years). Some people consider Doom a phenomenon, not just a game.

[Anonymous No.2381242]

>>2380186

Another great TC is Wolfenstein 3D Total Conversion that allows you to play all the classic wolfenstein games and expansions in ZDoom/GZDoom which is nice because Wolf3D source ports are still pretty meh.

http://www.afadoomer.com/wolf3d/screenshots.html

[Anonymous No.2381249]

>>2381242
wait, when did they make a 3D game out of Castle Wolfenstein? How are the stealth mechanics?

[Anonymous No.2381253]

>>2381249

I fucked up. I meant Wolf3D games. I'm sorry anon.

[Anonymous No.2381263]

>>2381253
You did it right. I'm just fooling around, pretending not to know Wolfenstein 3D.
Just odd how different the two games are.

[Anonymous No.2381270]

>>2381263

It was the Fallout 3 and Shadowrun 360 of it's day for sure.

[Anonymous No.2381276]

>>2381242
ecwolf is great though

just get a SVN build

[Anonymous No.2382106]

>>2378530
I DID grow up with doom in the 90s. Even ran it on a below spec machine!

But I also had a system with a voodoo1 card, so a cheap single board computer hookep up to an old CRT would be reminiscent of that, detail wise.

[Anonymous No.2382598]

>>2378130
Chocolate Doom for full authenticity
PrBoom+ for semi-authenticity
Zdoom for no authenticity (You CAN play in a traditional sense, but some things are done differently, like hitboxes)

[Anonymous No.2382618]

BRUTAL DOOM was awesome

[Anonymous No.2382625]

>>2382618
i don't care for the edgy gore but i like the combat system. It's been increased to be more fun.

[Anonymous No.2383181]

It's fine to use jump/crouch and freelook on WADs designed for it. For me it is much more fun than playing chocolate or PrBoom.

[Anonymous No.2383185]

>>2382618
>OMG he swears an gives ppl tha middle finger, hella f*ckin epic!

[Anonymous No.2383262]

The only thing you really have to know is that if you play on ZDOOM (which I recommend) there are some spots that the jumping and crouching abilities let you bypass and you just shouldn't do that. The game wasn't meant to let you do that but some places just don't have invisible walls for some reason.

[Anonymous No.2383297]

>>2383185

Who are you quoting?

[Razz No.2383306]

>>2382625
I didn't like the gore or the fuckery with the weapons or the enemy changes but goddamn, the lighting was great.

[Anonymous No.2383887]

I
LOVE
CHOCOLATE-DOOM

[Anonymous No.2383912]

>>2378940
I am interested in this.

[Anonymous No.2384968]

>>2378130
only way i play it - has the old look while it supports newly made mods as well, if you need them.

if you are hardcore pure doom gamer, use chocolate doom.

[Anonymous No.2385782]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virD-uLknLU
Only ZDoom and GZDoom support Smooth Doom.
Ignore the saturated colors, the colors are like they are in the original game when you use this.

[Anonymous No.2385863]

>>2385782
>smooth doom

The animations look awkward as fuck on some of the monsters.

[Anonymous No.2385910]

>>2378289

In the last level of Doom 2, freelook is basically cheating.

[Anonymous No.2386016]

I use GZDOOM to play DOOM at 1920x1080, and it's fantastic.

[Anonymous No.2386259]

>>2385910
Yeap. You don't even need the tower lift anymore. Just head to the top platform, and fire away.

[Anonymous No.2386262]

>>2386016
I play in 1440x1080

Widescreen looks really off in Doom, and I don't know why.

[Anonymous No.2386370]

daily reminder that if you play Doom on 60fps you're ruining the authentic experience

Choc or PrBoom with proper comp. options only

[Anonymous No.2386373]

>>2386370
-complevels do literally nothing with the framerate, though.

[Anonymous No.2386448]

>>2386373
I'm not sure about that, but it's right there in the options.
I agree though, It's still a hassle that you even have to adjust the control panel to have an authentic experience, instead of the authentic experience being a default from which you can change things if you want. This usually bothers me with any source port. From what I've read, PrBoom+ has some dumb elements like new monster behavior enabled by default. This still makes Choc the best option, I'm just saying, PrBoom is pretty damn great too as you have various versions of Doom supported, demos etc.

[Anonymous No.2386467]

>>2386448
>I'm not sure about that, but it's right there in the options.

Its not in the compatibility settings. its in general settings under the video stuff.

[Anonymous No.2386468]

>>2386448
>PrBoom+ has some dumb elements like new monster behavior enabled by default

Try using -complevels then.

[Anonymous No.2386472]

>>2378130
Chocolate Doom is the way to go if you want an authentic experience on a modern system, unless you want to run it through DosBox, but I just like the idea of running it natively.

[Anonymous No.2386479]

>>2386370
>ruining
>the authentic experience
While it's not the authentic experience I guarantee you it's not ruining shit.

[Anonymous No.2386624]

>>2386370
How on earth does not using the 35 fps cap ruin anything? its actually one of the few things from the original engine that I don't miss at all.

[Anonymous No.2386652]

bnice

[Anonymous No.2387041]

Will there ever be another FPS that loves me the way Doom loves me?

[Anonymous No.2387068]

>>2386370
144fps. Dont ever wanna go back

[Anonymous No.2388075]

>>2386370
>implying the framerate wasn't locked at 35 to prevent screen tearing and keep the framerate consistent

[Anonymous No.2388098]

>>2379361
A bit of googling turns up this.

I'm unfamiliar with a lot of the Doom series, so forgive me if this isn't what you were looking for.

[Anonymous No.2388105]

>>2388098
I somehow forgot the link.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/FinalDoom.html

[Anonymous No.2388281]

>>2380285
>if anything I'm quite curious as of how he could miss the doom general

Honestly they can be easy to miss. The general's OP image/title is usually some in-joke whose relevance to Doom is imperceptible to those who don't live in the threads.