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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 1.41 MB, 1320x1200, Link & Zelda (Ocarina of Time).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2300284 No.2300284 [Reply] [Original]

A while ago we had a pretty good OOT thread with some really good analysis on the adult dungeons. Let's try to give that kind of thread another go. I'll start us off with some analysis of my own, and I also saved the adult dungeon write-ups by that one anon if anyone wants me to post those.

>> No.2300286

This is unrelated to the dungeons, but Ocarina has a really great tutorial. I’m not talking about that point early in the game where you find the sword or learn how to get rupees so you can buy the shield. I’m talking about the bombchu bowling alley.

A huge part of what makes this tutorial great is that the vast majority of players don’t realize that it’s even a tutorial. But this is the first part of the game you can use bombchus, and when nearly every player learned how to use them. You aren’t introduced to the item in a way that says “okay, this is how you use this item that you’ll use in the future,” you’re introduced to it as a minigame on the side of the main quest that you can do for fun, for the challenge or to see what kind of reward you get for winning. It’s completely optional, the player only does it if the player actively wants to.

It teaches you everything you need to know about how the bombchu works, and is the point in the game where you practice the aiming and timing of the weapon. This is extra useful as a training area because it’s the only area in the game where you have unlimited bombchus. Rupees can be farmed if you run out and you can make as many attempts as it takes for you to become good at using them.

The only downside about this is that it’s probably the most difficult area in the game where bombchus are used, and they are a rather underutilized item in Ocarina of Time. Despite this, the subtle way this minigame works as a tutorial, the fact that it’s totally optional but has a reward for doing it and enough challenge to warrant a reward, and that it’s just plain fun to do, makes it one of the best tutorials I’ve ever seen in a game.

I know this seems like an odd part of the game to analyze, but I’ve never seen anyone talk about this before and I think it deserves some praise.

Now onto the dungeon.

>> No.2300287

>>2300286
It can carry over into MM if you play one after the other.

>> No.2300290

The Deku Tree isn’t an easy temple to analyze, but it has one part that I really like and which also frames the rest of the dungeon, and really the rest of the game, in a certain context.

I’m talking about the spiderweb you have to jump through. It challenges the player in a way I haven’t seen many games do before. Keep in mind what I’m referencing here is only what I have observed myself, but I have seen a number of people play through the beginning of OOT and I think I’ve seen enough to draw some conclusions about how this area works.

First of all, nearly every first-time player falls at least once when they are climbing the spiral ramp in the deku tree. This section of the game establishes that fall damage is a thing.

You get the slingshot, do some puzzles, yadda yadda blah blah. But you can only progress to a certain point going up. The way the ledges at the top of the ramp lead out naturally draws the player out towards the center of the room, where the camera changes its position and shows that there is something beneath the spiderweb far below. Note that the way the camera shifts emphasizes how far away you are from the ground, emphasizing the danger of falling and hinting to players who haven’t fallen off ledges that fall damage exists in this game.

Do you risk the damage and jump? A fall from that height results in a game over (and if you miss the web it does indeed result in a game over). The cautious players I’ve seen often look for something they may have missed, some alternate route that does not require them to take the risk. Other players just jump off intuitively. One thing is true of players who play through the game for the first time – you must throw caution to the wind to continue.

>> No.2300291

Admittedly this doesn’t work if you’re thinking “lol it’s just a game whatever”, but I’m assuming a certain level of immersion here. I’m also assuming you don’t just look up a guide, which the majority of players didn’t have immediate access to when this game came out.

My point is, you need to have courage to progress past this part of the game. You have to take a risk, knowing that there are in-game consequences if you are wrong. It could punish you in the most natural way a game like this can – with damage. But the player is unable to progress until they make the leap. It may be in a small way, but this actually challenges the player on a personal level. And I think that’s incredible. It’s not the kind of “personal” challenge games with good or evil dialogue options give you, it’s one that is delivered through pure gameplay. Other than games in the horror genre, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game that managed to do this.

And that frames the rest of the Deku Tree dungeon. It’s the only one of the original three child dungeons that is meant to be scary, or at least traditionally scary. Dodongo’s cavern and Jabu Jabu are disturbing in their own ways, but the Deku Tree is the only one that is blatantly creepy. It’s full of giant spiders and eyeball monsters, it’s the first dark area in the game, and is a stark contrast from Kokiri Village. It’s creepy, but it’s also only creepy. It’s far from being as bad as the bottom of the well or the shadow temple, it’s scary in a “kid” kind of way. Considering the challenge of the spiderweb, I do think that the purpose of this area (beyond serving as a tutorial dungeon, which it also excels at) is to establish the theme of courage, to make Link (and by extension the player) perform brave actions.

>> No.2300292

And when you finish the dungeon, that’s exactly what the Deku Tree says. You couldn’t save him, he only sent you in there to test your courage. Then the Deku Tree, the force that sustained the world of Link’s childhood, dies, and it’s time for Link to leave that place and journey out into the world. Link being forced to start maturing here (a sort of loss of innocence) and his expulsion from that safe child-world because of events that involved a tree make me think of the Book of Genesis and the Garden of Eden, but perhaps now I’m reading into things too deeply.

Speaking of reading into things too deeply, I’ve got a pretty out there theory about what Jabu Jabu is about if you guys want to hear it.

>> No.2300297

>>2300284
>I also saved the adult dungeon write-ups by that one anon if anyone wants me to post those.
Go for it, I missed that thread.

>> No.2300301

>>2300297
First up, the Forest Temple.

The Forest Temple, as the first adult dungeon, serves to introduce the player to the adult world. It does this by being really creepy and unsettling. Spiders, wolves, skeletons, ghosts, and disembodied hands that drop from the ceiling prowl the halls and passages. Weird, non-euclidian hallways that twist and untwist change the layout of the place in ways that don't make sense. The strange, haunting, and yet beautiful music lilts in the background. The Forest Temple is a scary place. It's important to note, though, that it isn't scary in the same way that the Shadow Temple is scary; it's scary because it's generally unsettling and unfamiliar, and they juxtapose that with the most utterly familiar setting in the game.

The forest is the very first environment you encounter in the game. As a child, it's full of friendly, inviting children, and there's almost no danger to speak of. When you come back as an adult, though, the forest is full of enemies, and the kids are all hiding in their homes. The entrance to the temple itself sits where Saria used to, and the sacred grove is full of hulking moblins who pose a much greater threat than the deku scrubs that once hung out there. The adult world is a dangerous place, and the fact that you get the bow and arrow in the Forest Temple helps reinforce this idea further. Mechanically, the bow is no different from the slingshot. It's used the same way, solves the same puzzles; for all intents and purposes, it simply replaces the slingshot in your inventory. The only real difference is that the bow does more damage. A slingshot is a toy, a bow is a weapon. (1/2)

>> No.2300302

Saria being the sage is the last piece of the puzzle. She's the first major ally you meet in the game. She gives you your first ocarina, she teaches you one of the first and most important songs in the game (which, side note, Saria's song is used throughout the game in cool ways to represent creating friendships), and throughout the game she's always been available to call for advice or words of encouragement. When you return the forest as an adult, though, she's nowhere to be found, and you can't get in touch with her. Saria represents how even the best of friends grow apart and go their separate ways as they get older. She herself basically spells this out during the bittersweet reunion once you finish the temple, when she says “it is destiny that you and I can't live in the same world.” It's not all sadness, though, because even though the two are destined for different paths, Saria reaffirms that they'll be friends, no matter what.

The Forest Temple is set up to draw as many parallels to childhood as possible, so that it subvert and twist the players expectations. In-universe this helps show that Ganondorf's rise to power has corrupted even the most pure parts of Hyrule, but in the greater context of a coming-of-age story, the Forest Temple is the first step into the world of adulthood. The Forest Temple is scary, because adulthood is scary. (2/2)

>> No.2300303

>>2300292
>his expulsion from that safe child-world because of events that involved a tree make me think of the Book of Genesis and the Garden of Eden, but perhaps now I’m reading into things too deeply.
Probably not reading too much into it, pop culture is filled to the brim with biblical allusions and references.

>> No.2300304

As another side note/alternate interpretation, the Forest Temple is weird and wrong because it's a representation of how Link's entire childhood has been a lie. He's a Hylian, not a Kokiri. The temple is a thing of the forest, and though Link was raised in the forest, it's not where he belongs. It's no coincidence that this little tidbit of information is brought up immediately after you beat the temple.

>> No.2300306

On to the Fire Temple.

Fire is one of the most powerful and important forces in the world. It figures heavily in mythology and religion throughout history. We rely on it in nearly every aspect of life. We use it to cook our food, we use it to power our vehicles, to heat our homes, to create our tools, and more. Fire can also be an incredibly destructive force. Fire burns down homes, claims lives and generally consumes everything it touches when it gets out of control. Simply put, fire is power. And, if you'll forgive me for quoting Spider-Man, with great power comes great responsibility.

In both 'Goron' dungeons, Ganondorf is explicitly called out as the cause of the problem. This is interesting, because in the rest of the game he's merely alluded to in a general sense. Ganondorf himself blocked the entrance to Dodongo's Cavern, Ganondorf himself released Volvagia, and Ganondorf himself imprisoned the Goron tribe. Big G plays a bigger role here than in other places for two reasons: first, obviously, is the fact that power is kind of his thing, and the 'Goron' dungeons directly correlate to power in the triforce sense. Second, though, is that he's set up as an example of misuse of power.

This is as good a point as any to point out that there's a very prominent masculine undercurrent to the Fire Temple. The Gorons (as far as I can tell) are exclusively male, they call their leader “Big Brother,” and on a number of occasions they bring up the idea of “being a real man.” This is particularly interesting, because in a number of tribal cultures around the world, boys are separated from women to undergo coming-of-age rituals at puberty. In a way, Dodongo's Cavern and the Fire Temple serve the same purpose for Link. He goes off into the mountains away from any female figures to undergo a literal trial by fire to learn how to be a real man. If the Forest Temple teaches Link to be an adult, the Fire Temple teaches him how to be a man. (1/2?)

>> No.2300307

>>2300306
The Fire Temple also teaches Link how to be a hero. When you return to the Goron village as an adult, you learn that you've become something of a legendary hero of the Gorons. Dariuna even named his son after you. In order to get the keys needed to progress through the dungeon, you have to save the Gorons who have been imprisoned. These details, combined with Ganondorf's looming presence, really drive home the overall theme of the Fire Temple: heroes(and by extension, 'real men') use their power to protect the weak and defend the innocent, while villains use their power to enslave and destroy.

Again, we see the dungeon's theme echoed in the dungeon item: the Megaton Hammer. Hammers are one of the most simple yet versatile tools that man has ever devised. They act as a force multiplier to, you guessed it, increase the wielder's power. Most importantly, hammers can be used both for creation as well as destruction, just like the fire in which it is forged.

The temple's boss neatly caps off the examination of power, masculinity, and heroism. After all, what's a more iconic act of heroism than slaying the fire-breathing dragon that's terrorizing the countryside? (2/2)

>> No.2300308

>>2300307
Another fun aside, because there's just so much more that I'm not fully addressing: When you run into Dariuna before he goes to fight Volvagia, he's worried because he doesn't have the hammer. This is kind of a cool, because it shows that the courage that you gain in the Forest Temple isn't always enough; you have to have power to be a hero.

That's actually kind of a recurring theme with the Gorons, too. Despite their size and strength, they're constantly the low men on the totem pole. Perhaps they lack the courage necessary to gain power?

>> No.2300309

Ahh the Water Temple. Where do I even start?

The Water Temple is an incredibly complex and intricate piece of work, which is I suppose fitting for the portion of the game most closely associated with wisdom. There are a lot of things in the Water Temple that I still don't understand, and it seems like every time I replay the game I see something new. At it's core, though, the Water Temple explores themes typically associated with its namesake element: change, adaptability, and reflection. This is summed up most eloquently by Sheik's monologue upon learning the Serenade of Water: “Time passes, people move … Like a river’s flow, it never ends. A childish mind will turn to noble ambition … Young love will become deep affection … The clear water’s surface reflects growth. Now listen to the Serenade of Water to reflect upon yourself …”

The Water Temple is one of the most vertically-oriented dungeons in the entire game. During the course of the dungeon, you spend a lot of time diving down to the bottom, then making your way back up. In a sense, the temple is designed to flow like you're exploring a submerged cavern, periodically coming up for air. The temple is also built around raising and lowering the water level repeatedly. This constant cycle of upward and downward movement builds the ideas of fluidity and change directly into the 'structure' of the dungeon itself.

This idea is also represented in both of the items associated with the dungeon. It's particularly noteworthy that both items, the Iron boots and the Longshot, are essentially altered versions of items you already have in your inventory. It's also relevant that in both cases, the changes increase your ability to change your vertical position within the temple, and to more effectively maneuver and fight in water. The temple forces you to rely on these two items heavily, and as a result it actually integrates the core theme of the dungeon into the design of the puzzles themselves. (1/3)

>> No.2300310

On the theme of growing up and coming of age, I always liked the part where Sheik teaches you the song for warping to the Spirit Temple, and you see the owl watching Link and then leaving.
At that point in the game, it's been a pretty long time since you last saw him, back in the past. So it works as both a gameplay hint that you should come back as child Link, but also as a thematical point about how far you've come.

>> No.2300313

>>2300309
So we've got change covered quite well, but what about reflection? That's where Dark Link comes in, and again, the temple relies on game mechanics to convey its message. The fight with Dark Link doesn't actually start until you lock onto him with Z-targeting (this may not actually be accurate, I most recently played the 3DS version and I don't know if it was the same in the original), but you can't actually hit him while you're locked on. In order to “conquer yourself” as Navi so eloquently puts it when you press up-c while locked on, you actually have to do so without the crutch of Z-Targeting. At this point, locking onto your enemies has probably become an automatic habit that you don't even think about, and the Dark Link fight forces you change your tactics in order to grow as a player. Or, you know, just smack him with the hammer.

Ruto's presence as the sage of water, as well as Zelda's association with the Triforce of Wisdom also lends a feminine undertone to the Water Temple, though it isn't nearly as pronounced as the Fire Temple's exploration of masculinity. Ruto may also serve as an allusion to a Japanese myth about a serpent woman who lives at the bottom of the sea as well, but my knowledge of Japanese mythology is quite lacking, and I can't say with any certainty that this is true. (2/3)

>> No.2300314

>>2300313
Going back to Campbell's Monomyth, which OoT actually fits into pretty damn well, Ruto may also be an example of the "woman as temptress" stage. She would marry Link if she had her way, but in the end the two really can't be together.

Really, I'm not anywhere near as confident in my analysis of the Water Temple as any of the other dungeons in the game. One of these days I'll actually give it the time and effort it deserves.
Luckily, next on my list is the Shadow Temple, which is probably the most straightforward of them all. (3/3)

>> No.2300315

Onto the Shadow Temple

In direct contrast to the complexity of the Water Temple, the Shadow Temple is incredibly straightforward and to the point. Death is, after all, the universal constant, and the Shadow Temple represents Link's journey into the underworld.

What I find most interesting about the design and layout of the temple itself is that the entire thing is a constant descent. You enter the temple from a ledge above the graveyard, descend past a monolithic mausoleum door, and gradually work your way deeper and deeper until finally dropping through a hole in the floor at the deepest part of the dungeon into the chamber where Bongo Bongo resides. This, coupled with the imagery of death that's (sometimes literally) dripping from every wall in the place really drives home the idea of descending into hell itself to confront the monster in charge.

It's also interesting how utterly macabre the Shadow Temple and Bottom of the Well are. The Bottom of the Well is, essentially, a hidden torture chamber, complete with a hidden pitfall underneath the X-Shaped cross that leads to a chamber full of undead. In the temple itself, the walls are adorned with grinning faces that seem amused by the carnage contained within. False walls and floors are everywhere, and at various points the walls themselves talk of “tricks full of ill will.” The dungeon itself seems to have a will of its own, and the place is not at all friendly. Where all the other temples are presumably holy places that have been corrupted and perverted by Ganondorf's magic, the Shadow Temple is a place of pure darkness and evil. (1/2)

>> No.2300319

>>2300308
The hammer is a phallic object. Link metaphorically acquires his penis in this dungeon, and thus transitions from boy to man. Darunia loses the fight against Volvagia because he has lost his hammer penis - he has been emasculated by his failure to defend his people, and this quasi-castration spells his defeat.

VolVAGia emerges from holes in the ground. You are supposed to "tap that" with your "hammer". Darunia's literal and metaphorical impotence is contrasted with Link's youth, power and virility. Link's pseudo sexual fight with the draconic vagina dentata represents his emergence into sexual maturity and passage from adolescence. Link quite literally does not actually lose his virginity in this boss fight, but on another, more spiritual level, he still doesn't either.

>> No.2300320

>>2300315
There is also an odd recurring theme of body parts, usually disembodied. The dungeon items the Lens of Truth and Hover Boots are referred to as the “Eye of Truth” and “Sacred Feet,” respectively. The minibosses of the Shadow Temple and the Bottom of the Well are called Dead Hands, and feature a number of arms sticking up from the ground to grab and immobilize you. guillotines figure prominently in the design of the dungeon itself, and Bongo Bongo's hands are separate from the rest of his body. Bongo Bongo himself looks quite a bit like a headless torso hanging from the ceiling. All this lends a subtle vibe of bodily mutilation to the temple, which just adds to the horrific atmosphere.

The Shadow Temple utilizes as many recognizable representations of death as it can get its skeletal fingers on; from the ravens that top pillars throughout the temple to the ghostly ferry manned by skeletons. The idea of a hero descending into the underworld itself is one as old as stories themselves, and OoT gladly incorporates the trope. OoT is, after all, a modern-day fairy tale. The Shadow Temple in a lot of ways is the final test before confronting Ganondorf. If you can defeat the shadow of death itself, what can't you defeat? But it also serves as a gruesome memento mori that adds a bitter twinge to the game's central theme of the passage of time. (2/2)

>> No.2300321
File: 49 KB, 283x323, 1423686814164.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2300321

>>2300319

>> No.2300326

Last, but definitely not least, the Spirit Temple.

The Spirit Temple is a study in duality. Young and old, good and evil, fire and ice. Even the design of the medallion you receive upon completion is highly reminiscent of a yin-yang. The Spirit Temple is also my favorite dungeon in the game by far, and it ties into the overarching theme of time and aging that's so central to the game.

In a lot of ways, the Spirit Temple is the real temple of time. The weight of the inevitable passage of time hangs over the entire temple, illustrated by the weathered sandstone construction. The desert colossus itself stands in the desert like the crumbling monolith described in Shelley's Ozymandias, a constant reminder of the ravages of time. This focus on the passage of time is reflected in the temple layout as well, as rather than having a separate child counterpart like every other temple in the game, the Spirit Temple incorporates its child portion directly into its design.

The temple is almost perfectly mirrored in terms of room layout; one side only accessible as a child, the other only accessible as an adult. The child portion must be completed in order to access the adult portion, and the child portion of the Spirit Temple is the last time you're required to play as child Link. This serves as a metaphor for aging; the events of your childhood are necessary for you to become the adult you are meant to be, but once you've become an adult that childhood no longer exists as anything more than a memory. (1/3)

>> No.2300328

>>2300326
The enemies you face in each portion also tie into this theme. One of the first enemies you face in the child side is a Stalfos – something you've only faced as an adult up until this point. At the end of the child side you face an Iron Knuckle. These fights help show the necessity of growing up; child link does far less damage, and the fights are more difficult than you're used to as a result. When you return as an adult and face another Iron Knuckle, the difference is immediately apparent.
But the young/old dichotomy is just one part of the Spirit Temple's larger focus on juxtaposition and duality. The fact that Ganondorf, being a Gerudo, is from the desert adds an interesting facet to this entire portion of the game.

In order to pass through the valley and gain access to the Spirit Temple, Link must earn the respect of the Gerudo. Here, like in the Fire Temple, the game suggests a direct comparison between Link and Ganondorf. Ganondorf is given the respect of his tribe by nature of birth and tradition. Link, on the other hand, earns the respect of the Gerudo by proving his capability in rescuing the carpenters.(2/3)

>> No.2300329

>>2300328
Link also invites comparison to Ganondorf by completing the trials in the desert to reach the Spirit Temple. Ganondorf has most definitely made the trek to the temple in the past and braved the trials; we know this because he's using the temple as a base of operations. In addition, in the course of proving yourself, the Gerudo begin to see you in a different light. If you get caught while sneaking around, they call you a kid and throw you in a cell. Once you've saved the last carpenter, however, the Gerudo who greets you says “I used to think that all men, except for the great Ganondorf, were useless... But now that I've seen you, I don't think so anymore!” Essentially, the Gerudo hold Ganondorf up as a paragon of manliness, and in order to progress you must prove yourself his equal. This is just another example of the thematic duality; in order to defeat Ganondorf, Link must become more like him.

Finally, Koume and Kotake represent the duality so important to the temple with their opposed powers of fire and ice. The boss battle really hammers home the binary nature of the temple. In order to defeat them, you must use both fire and ice; the trick lies in knowing when to use which. The true way forward lies in finding balance.

And with that, I’m done.

>> No.2300332

Good read.

>> No.2300339

That's it for the other anon's analysis. I can pick up where I left off and post my JabuJabu analysis if anyone is interested.

Honestly though I'm kind of hesitant because it's not too different from what this guy posted >>2300319

>> No.2300340

>>2300339
Post it, dude.

>> No.2300343

Alright, this is going to get a little Freudian.

JabuJabu is the only dungeon in which you have a companion. You have to escort a fishgirl (who is more other-ly than other girls you’ve met due to being a fish), and who starts off by being bratty towards you but clearly develops feelings for you by the end of the dungeon. You receive her engagement ring, and are entered into an agreement to meet with her in the future as adults. Basically, this is the part of growing up when Link is confronted with a girl in a non-platonic way.

JabuJabu is a dungeon that is very intimate, but in a very uncomfortable way. First of all, you are inside of something else’s body. Note that Ruto says she has been in there plenty of times before, and is used to that place. You are the stranger here, but this place is natural to her. There are heavy breathing noises throughout the entire dungeon. The bass of the song is a heartbeat. And you’re wandering around with a girl in here trying to find her engagement ring. The symbolism seems pretty blunt, and if this story was in any medium other than a game I think this would have been recognized a long time ago.

>> No.2300345

>>2300343
Also note that in the Master Quest version of the dungeon there are cow heads sticking out of the walls that you can get milk from. This seems like a pretty random element unless the dungeon is supposed to represent a woman’s body.

Link and Ruto are forced to spend time with each other and work together in order to continue. This is also when Link learns how to “be a man” by carrying Ruto around and protecting her. Then after JabuJabu is purified they become engaged.

The themes are strongly sexual, but the dungeon is also intimidating and disturbing. I believe the symbolic element here is about becoming comfortable around the female sex and physical intimacy as you enter puberty.

I think it’s worth noting that none of the adult dungeons have sexual themes. At first this seems odd, because sexual themes seem like they would belong more in the adult portion of the game. But this is a coming of age story, and Young Link is at the cusp of puberty. It’s appropriate that a dungeon with this theme is the final one before entering the adult portion of the game and becoming a man, where a dungeon with this sort of theme could imply an unhealthy sexual fixation.

So what do you think? Am I onto something here or am I just being crazy?

>> No.2300369

It's not until you stop and think do you realize Sacred Forest Meadow is where the Master Sword should have gone before ultimately relocating to the Temple of Time.

>> No.2300372

Any insight about Dodongo Cavern?

>> No.2300421

>>2300345
>So what do you think? Am I onto something here or am I just being crazy?
Nah, seems reasonable.

>> No.2300423

>>2300369
Holy shit, you're right.

>> No.2300426

>>2300345
There's nothing sexy about Jabu Jabu. Ruto I just tsundere.

>> No.2300461

>>2300372
Unfortunately I don't have much to say about it.

The only idea I can come up with is that it's supposed to give you a sense of being out of your league. The main chamber of the dungeon is huge, and if you look at your surroundings you'll notice the spine and ribcage of a HUGE AS FUCK dodongo are what hold up the ceiling and upper walls of the chamber. It's possibly that dodongo's head that you throw bombs into to move forward.

After leaving the forest you're confronted with a certain sense of scale. Hyrule Field is wide and open, and the music of that area gives you this sense of adventure, going out into the big world and exploring. Castle Town is meant to be this huge, hustle and bustle type city with lots of people, even if you do only get to see a small part of the whole. Zelda imparts you on a great quest. You climb a massive mountain. The scope of everything starts to increase, though there are smaller moments inbetween (like sneaking past the guards, which is presented in a cute and childish sort of way, or going back to visit Saria).

Dodongo's Cavern is when all of this is perhaps meant to feel out of your league, to dwarf you in size. The new sense of freedom, the size of the world you're in and the weight of your task suddenly become intimidating in their scope. This idea fits with the boss of the dungeon. Gohma is creepy and Barinade is disgusting, but King Dodongo is intimidating due to his sheer massive size. It's the second largest enemy in the game, after Bongo Bongo, who doesn't use most of his body to fight anyway. You're just a kid, going up against a dragon.

But then you overcome, and the gorons welcome you to their tribe and call you brother, and I'm pretty sure this is when Darunia starts to refer to you as a man, though I really can't remember with certainty.

I'm not too confident with my analysis for Dodongo's Cavern but this is probably the best I can do for it.

>> No.2301037

>>2300319
>VolVAGia
>Implying that the long, throbbing, fire-spewing serpent isn't a giant penis
>Implying that there's anything heterosexual about bashing it with a hammer
You need to get out of the closet, anon.

>> No.2301093

Just came here to say..

Good read OP, you've got some interesting insights. Thanks!

>> No.2301257

Excellent, I forgot to save it the first time. Dodongo/JabuJabu anon/anons you guys are great too.

>> No.2301294

>>2300343
>>2300345
This is actually really interesting, I've never thought about that at all before. Never really struck me as a game with any sexual themes, is this the only area with them? Forgive me for being clueless if there are others.

>> No.2301427

>>2301037
Well technically you're slamming the penis into the hole...with your penis then..really..I don't know there's no way to turn it around.

>> No.2301471
File: 30 KB, 272x252, 1411078763239.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2301471

>>2300319
>>2301037
>>2301427
>>2300343
>>2300345
Holy shit
What the fuck is wrong with you

>> No.2301481
File: 95 KB, 960x720, nope.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2301481

>>2300290
>A fall from that height results in a game over (and if you miss the web it does indeed result in a game over).
Nope.

>> No.2301513

>>2300303
Not in Japan though. Western pop culture is full of the Bible because it traces back from hundreds of years ago where the Bible had basically the only stories everybody knew, but that's not the case at all in Japan. Japanese video games are full of allusions to Japanese folklore if you know where to look though.

>> No.2301673

>>2300328
>>2300329
the carpenters were gay, right?

>> No.2301676

and i thought final fantasy threads were bad

>> No.2301704

>>2301427
The climactic battle with VolVAGia involves having to identify when and where to position Link, and by his extension his Megaton penis, in order to strike at the head of the dragon as it emerges from seething, boiling pools of magma - this dragon is quite literally stewing in its own juices. Notice that the dragon follows no set pattern, appearing at random from one of nine holes in the arena. It is unpredictable, unfathomable, operating without rhyme or reason, and Link must do his best to keep up with its whimsies and fancies - much like a man attempting to pursue the female orgasm. In this sense, volvagia is both clitoris and vagina. This epic clash is staged around the concept of seduction and finally consummation - Link must initially work hard to identify the g-spots/ around VolVAGia's clitoral head in the initial stages of foreplay, working hard to keep the dragon in a state of arousal. This metaphorical pursuit of a woman's pleasure literally takes flight as VolVAGia takes to the skies, mimicking the moment of climax - the dragon's soaring and roaring flames are clear parallels to the screaming ecstasy of the female orgasm - notice too that Link must continue to strike at the dragon even as it flies, much as one must keep groinally thrusting throughout a woman's orgasm.

The origin of the word "fuck" can be found in the Germanic languages, where it's translation means "to strike." In France, the orgasm is called "le petit mour", or little death. What this means taken together is quite clear - Link must keep fucking the dragon in order for it to experience the final release.

What is more, Nintendo were far from irresponsible in their graphic depiction of teenage sexuality. If Link fails to use adequate protection throughout the boss fight, VolVAGia will indeed leave his penis with a lasting burning sensation.

>> No.2301718

>>2301704
>mour

>> No.2301731

In freud's theory of childhood development, a child develops in psychological stages, in order, they're called the oral stage, the anal stage, the phallic stage and the latency period.

To enter the deku tree you go into a mouth (oral stage). To enter dodongo's cavern you go into a dark hole (anal stage). Then there's the sexual stuff with jabu jabu, and finally a period of latency when link is locked in the temple of time.

>> No.2301747

>>2301676
What's bad about this thread?

>> No.2302086

>>2301704
> Nintendo only wanted to do some Whack-a-Mole in Zelda
> people have to turn into their private hentai fanfiction
Only on /v/

>> No.2302134

>>2301427
I think it's about masturbation.
Volvagia is a giant snake that likes burrowing into holes, and pops up at inopportune moments. Link faces it not too long after he emerges as an adult from his temporal stasis.
Link needs to beat it (with a hammer) before he can move on to the Water Temple and Ruto.

>> No.2302145

>>2301704
I feel like this is reaching a bit. I'd say its more about link wrestling with his urges as a man as they pop up in his life. They're unpredictable and uncontrolled as you say and eventually they surface as seen when volvagia leaves the pit. When link defeats the dragon he gains control over not only his urges but his newfound power and freedom as a man.

There are so many ways to interpret this. I'm glad op started this thread.

>> No.2302335

>>2302086
But... we're not on...
Never mind.

>> No.2302342

So we doing mm dungeons next?
>inb4 babel tower XDDDD

>> No.2302374
File: 602 KB, 1024x640, Desert Dreams.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2302374

>>2302086

My gut reaction to the entire thread. Sorry OP, I wanted to leave it alone because we were getting some quality discussion on OOT for a change (instead of just "soooo ovrated lolololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), but anyone taking any of Freud's extended theories seriously, much less applying them to one of the greatest games of all time, just destroyed any credibility the thread had left in it.

>> No.2302504
File: 143 KB, 1280x720, linkfire.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2302504

Interesting thread. I'll maybe dump some observations later tonight

>> No.2302570

Very cool thread, though some of that sexual interpretations are a little... far fetched. You can interpret almost any object to be a phallus (swords, hammers, pillars, towers,...) and end up seeing any act involving then being sexual intercourse/masturbation. Symbolism, wohoo...

Btw here are two absolutely amazing sites about Majora's Mask, maybe for additional inspiration for this thread - the games are like twins anyway.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/majoras-mask-a-bitter-mystery-left-unsolved-spoilers.34063485/

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/2011/09/13/the-message-of-majoras-mask/

>> No.2302585

>>2302145
>>2302134
>>2301731
>>2301704
just fucking stop

>> No.2302828

Freudian trips aside, the dungeon analyses work fairly well. You could talk more about the perception and designation of the non-Kokiri forest region as the "Lost Woods" in multiple Zelda games. In what sense are they lost beyond geographical confusion?

>> No.2303090

>>2300284
Nice thread thanks a lot!

>> No.2303418

>>2302585
Triggered much?

>> No.2303420

>>2302374
>taking the sex theories seriously
>being this kanker

No anon. You ruined the thread.

>> No.2303813

>>2302570
OP here. Just in case it wasn't obvious, I wasn't the anon who started posting about the hammer penis. I'm not any of the anons who posted about the hammer penis.

The only sex-related thing I've posted til now was the JabuJabu theory, and even now I'm kind of regretting it. I mean, I do believe that the whole thing with carrying Ruto around with you is symbolic of learning to court girls. But the more I think about the sexual symbolism the more absurd it starts to seem. Then again some anons thought it sounded possible, but ehhh...

>>2301294
The only other things I can think of are the Great Fairies. Nearly naked women covered with vines, who bend over, spread their legs and have their ass shoved into the camera when you get a power up from them.

>>2301481
Really? Shit, I could have sworn it did.

>>2301513
Yeah, that's why I was wondering if I was reading into it too deeply. But then a lot of Zelda lore is taken from different cultures, not just Japanese, and the expulsion from Eden is pretty well known as far as Christian stories go. The opening story of Wind Waker wasn't too different from the story of Noah, though admittedly the connection there is nebulous since there are lots of folklores with flood stories in them. I don't know how many of them are about God(s) flooding the world specifically to wash away evil though.

>> No.2303821
File: 74 KB, 203x234, Carpenter1OoT3D.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2303821

>>2301673
They also have a tendency to end their sentences with the particle わ (wa), which is usually only used by women to express emphasis or emotion. Jiro also calls Link a "cute boy (カワイイ ボーヤ)" when he is rescued from the Gerudos.

>> No.2303850

>>2303821
>Only used by women
Not necessarily. Read starting from page 16.
http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=1530807&fileOId=1536131

>> No.2303861

>>2300332
Seconded.

Can't wait for more analysis on the other Zeldas.

>> No.2303862

>>2303813
They swear it because they're following an outdated psychological analysis. Also confirmation bias.

>> No.2303867

>>2300345
Good!
Keep 'em coming!

>> No.2303901
File: 326 KB, 975x971, 1422468698351.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2303901

>>2301704

>> No.2303914

>>2302374
This post clearly stems from Anon's repressed desire to have sex with his own mother. He is uncomfortable with being confronted by Freud's outdated psychological theories, because he feels they describe him too well. He is put off by half-assed amateur literary analysis, because it reminds him of the urges he is trying his best to pretend don't exist.

On a less silly note, I've been thinking about Wind Waker. The main characters' Triforce attunements are apparent in the way they operate.
Tetra has studied the Triforce. She has drawings of the thing in her quarters. She's never had a chance to meet any primary sources before the game starts, so she's probably spent a long time hunting down wizened scholars and musty tomes, trying to unravel history one puzzle piece at a time.
Link, on the other hand, just trips over ancient lore. He delves into tainted dungeons, reads ancient stone tablets and speaks to old, forgotten gods. That's also how he gets all his skills and equipment. By charging headfirst into things with little to no preparation, trusting he'll have the tools to fight the boss by the time he reaches it.
Ganondorf is the same Ganondorf from the previous game, and knows ancient lore because HE WAS THERE. By the time you fight him in WW, he's tried to take over the world at least twice. His thing is brute force, in the cryptographic sense. He's using his immortality to fight the same green-hatted elf over and over again with little variation.

>> No.2303920

Really great read OP and assorted anons. Looking back on stuff you did as children when you're an adult really makes you appreciate stuff you kinda just experienced by instinct as a kid, without really understanding it. You think and feel a lot more deeply about shit.

Going back to these games makes me shocked in a way they didn't when I was younger, mainly because I'm amazed so much death, darkness and maturity found their way into what was considered little more than a toy.

>> No.2304251
File: 261 KB, 1103x725, volvagia__subterranean_lava_dragon_by_rhafiel-d5u19ea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2304251

I did say I'd dump some of my observations, I'll start with the one the thread seems most obsessed with.

>>2301704
>>2300306

On Volvagia, The Fire Temple & Gorons.
The Bolero of Fire is a song about Friendship.
The Fire Temple & Gorons don't just symbolize masculinity and passion, but also Community, Family and "Brotherhood".
The Fire Temple, and the rest of the game, draw parallels between Link & Ganondorf true, but the Fire Temple shows us that Link isn't just a good man, but hes a good brother & leader as well. Where Ganon would tyrannize & enslave people and their passions Link would let his Brothers free.
The ending of the Fire Temple with Darunia calling Link his "Friend" is also a twist on the ending of the Dodongo Cavern where a younger link ran away from the gorons trying to treat him as a "Brother" w/ a hug.

Genital Symbolism: Regardless if its intentional or not a lot of written, painted, & produced art can be interpreted in a lot of different ways as long as people care to draw parallel between them.
In the Fire Temple, a temple regarding the element of passion, friendship and masculine power you encounter a giant fire breathing, hot liquid spewing serpent that's so hard the only way to beat it is with a hammer.
A problem with Volvagia symbolism is its vaginal in the narrative that it will consume Goron's, engulfing things being more of a feminine trait(and can be seen in the water temple with the boss that literally engulfs you, while being a giant flaming lava penis in a boss battle.

Link conquering the Fire temple can be seen as Link learning to build instead of destroy a community with friendship and familiarity. Conquering Fire is also a conquering of his wild passions.

In the original Zelda game the top of mount doom also had twin peaks, and in LttP the top of Mount Doom you also have something that resembles two-peaks. Strangely in OoT the twin peaks of Mt. Doom.

>> No.2304258

>>2303901

so ebin :^)

>> No.2304282
File: 230 KB, 450x600, 1407189884309.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2304282

>>2304251
>Blahblahblah Twin Peaks

Basically the Volcanic Twin Peaks of Mount Doom can give you insight regarding if you're at the original Mt. Doom or not. This isn't particularly an important plot point unless you consider Twilight Princess being in a post-earthquake Hyrule or whether or not Skyward Sword is where OoT took place eons later.
When you go to pull the Master Sword in Twilight Princess you have to run through a forested area led by a skullkid, at the end you find a Fountain that looks like the one in the center of OoTs Hyrule Town, and in the distance you can see Mt. Doom, I'll have to find a picture and see whether or not we can line up the Goron Mines to it.

The other theory is that the Goron Mines are an extended Dodongo cavern.

I really don't even know where to begin a lore dump

>> No.2304328

Anyone think Doshin the Giant could be interpreted like this? It's a weird-ass game.

>> No.2304361
File: 79 KB, 680x638, spurdo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2304361

>>2304258

>> No.2304382

>>2304328
The less grounded in reality a game is, the harder a serious interpretation is. OoT only works because it follows Campbellian monomythic tropes.

>> No.2304416

>>2304382
On the other hand, the island in Doshin's called Bardo, which references the Buddhist concept of an intermediate state between a past life and reincarnation. The game also breaks the fourth wall through your talking HUD dude and anachronistic loading screens. And it all ends with you on an island formed in the shape of a fallen Doshin, raising a village of aliens so that they can build a rocket and go home. Potential's here.

>> No.2304537

>>2301673
If they were gay, they wouldn't have been tempted into the Gerudo fortress.

Maybe they're bi.

>> No.2304937

>>2304382
Iida's the kind of designer who provokes interpretation through games he designs; the post-mortem on Aquanuat's Holiday is revealing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUPc2GMVgko

So it's possible to extrapolate on his personal comments re: Doshin or AH or Tail of the Sun, in addition to what >>2304416 said.

>> No.2305692

>>2304251
You make some pretty good points about the gorons being about friendship. Good stuff.

I really don't think anyone is taking the genital dragon symbolism seriously though, at least I hope they aren't. That was mostly just people fucking around.

>>2304282
>at the end you find a Fountain that looks like the one in the center of OoTs Hyrule Town,
That's actually VERY interesting, for some reason.
Also you're talking about Death Mountain, not Mt. Doom. Mt. Doom is from Lord of the Rings.

>>2304537
Didn't they go in because they wanted to become thieves? They weren't going in for poon. They certainly didn't stay for it.

>> No.2307001 [SPOILER] 
File: 196 KB, 534x805, 1427245522186.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2307001

>>2300284

POE COLLECTOR IS IN FACT GRAVEYARD KID!

>> No.2307212

>>2307001
FUCK

>> No.2307231

>>2300319
>>2301704
lmao

>> No.2307241

>>2301731

See the thing is, the entire child stage shit is all oral.

You go into the tree's mouth, you go into a dead dodongo's mouth, you go into Jabu-Jabu's mouth

Link stop getting eaten this is bullshit

>> No.2307248
File: 91 KB, 330x335, 009_9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2307248

>>2307001

>> No.2307395

>>2307001
>that stick
I never fucking put 2 and 2 together, fuck I'm dumb.

>> No.2307438
File: 144 KB, 296x375, shinji with shinji mug.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2307438

>>2301513
>Japan
>not into biblical allusions

>> No.2307481
File: 2 KB, 124x124, 1345197551793s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2307481

>that one game
>never beat it
>that one part
>that one fucking part
>ages pass
>never return to it

What's her name, /vr/?

>> No.2307608
File: 89 KB, 400x225, poe 2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2307608

>>2307001

Hold your horses!

Wouldn't it make more sense for the guard in that building to be the poe collector?

They share the same spot AND he says he's into ghosts!

Anybody can pick up a stick.

>> No.2307942

>>2307001
>>2307608
Also the poe collector model is referenced in MM as an "old man", which the kid wouldn't be by then.

>> No.2307950

>>2307481
I got stuck in the first stage of ghost n' goblins and dropped the game. Literally a git gud case.

>> No.2307991

>Freudian symbolism

Guys, I know your Media Theory101 class or whatever is all about Freud, but please can we find something less cliche and predictable than to see dicks and childhood in everything.

>> No.2307996

>>2307608

This was always my assumption.

>> No.2308004

>>2307996
Thirded. I'm pretty sure he's the one.

>> No.2308048

>>2302828
>In what sense are they lost beyond geographical confusion?
None, that's it, that's all there is to it, they're woods you get lost in

>> No.2308142

>>2300319
I'm fucking dying here. This is the greatest thing I've ever read. I hope this turns into copypasta.

>> No.2308151

>>2307608
Also, the guard alludes that the world would be more interesting if there were more troubles. The poe collector not only thanks Ganondorf for making his business lucrative, but even states he hopes things get worse.

Pretty sure it's a done deal that the guard is the poe collector. Of course, what must've happened to transform him into an allegedly ugly mind-reader will forever be a mystery.

>> No.2308594

>>2303914
I love little details like that. Cool.

>> No.2308605

>>2308594

Can't say I agree with his sentiments on Ganondorf, though. The Ganondorf of Wind Waker is a markedly different beast than that of OOT; he's older, he's wiser, and his ferocious rage and hate has had time to be tempered into something much more refined and terrifying.

>>2308142

Go forth brave Anon. Spread our psycho-sexual ramblings to the four corners of the earth.

>> No.2308615

This thread has been pretty GOAT and I think everything contributed has been both entertaining and interesting and that's awesome. Loved reading all the theories, given me a whole new appreciation of the games and I'm really looking forward to replaying them now.

I think what's really interesting about this thread is that it's totally gonna predict the direction that journalism and academic criticism of the vidya is going to take. People are going to be studying the story, the characters, the art and the music but like any medium there are things that make games unique as a form of artistic expression, and I think what's pretty clear sfrom this thread is that in the same way people talk about narrative structure in books and cinematography in movies, critics are going to be talking about how the level design and the game mechanics inform a reading/ interpretation of the game's themes.

>> No.2308617

In the hopes that this'll kick start some new discussion, I thought I'd have a try at some observations about MM, since it's one of the most heavily discussed games in the Zelda series. Pretty sure everyone will have heard about how the temples/ zones in MM each represent one of the five stages of grieving, and that the whole game itself is about dealing with death and loss - Clocktown is trapped in the denial stage, with the men and women there refusing to accept the fate of the town, the Swamp is anger, with the Deku tribe raging against the loss of their princess, Snowhead is bargaining, with the Gorons refusing to move on in the hopes that Darmani will return to them in some way and so on -
http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/themes_in_motion_majoras_mask_and_the_five_stages_of_grief#.VRNNN_msXjI

but I just thought it was interesting that the game's central mechanic - the song of time reset - is itself about moving on, letting go and dealing with loss. You're only allowed a brief time to connect emotionally and mentally with the characters in the game - you invest in their stories just long enough to feel compassion for their plight and share their pain - and then you lose everything. You're forced to move on from that relationship, to let go of your connection to that character, to go on without them. You can't fix their lives, you can just touch them, you can just briefly journey with them. The hardest thing about playing the game to me is knowing that every night of the first day that you choose not to defend Romani's ranch, a little girl loses her innocence to trauma. Every decision matters because it makes the player count each loss.

>> No.2308619

>>2308615

Welcome to 2010, you might want to check out Polygon for example, the central hub of this pseudo-intellectual amateur media analysis prose. Games are now supposed to be about how you feel not how they play.

>> No.2308625

>>2308617

My takeaway from Majora was the fact that you can't save everyone. You can save one people before they're all destroyed. It's only through some hokey meta-dimensional giants that you can escape this incredibly depressing groundhog day.

>> No.2308630

>>2308619
But isn't the reason you have feelings while you play the game partly because of the decisions the designers made when they created the game? Doesn't the way a game plays influence how you feel about it, and aren't those feelings provoked by design decisions - and isn't it ok to talk about them? Haven't we always talked about how games make us feel, even if that emotion has mostly been rage on /v/?

>> No.2308632

>>2308630

I personally don't give a shit how a game makes someone feel, unless it's directly in relation to game mechanics and the play experience. I don't give a fuck about Wander's horse reminding the reviewer of their grandmother's favourite brooch she wore before she was killed in a tragic rockslide accident, I want to know I'm reading the opinions of someone who views games with the same critical eye that I do, first and foremost.

>> No.2308634

>>2308625
I agree, but what I like about the game is that the conclusion you draw from that is far from nihilistic - it's not depressing because nothing the player does matters, it's depressing because everything that -happens- to the player matters.

>> No.2308636

>>2308634

That's a nice way of looking at it. Good observation.

>> No.2308637

>>2308632
But you're talking like the narrative and the mechanics are completely independent of each other, and that only a technical evaluation of the game matters - unless I've misunderstood you. The play experience also involves story, themes, emotions experienced etc. I've never heard about someone talking about a meaningful experience in games which involved a clinical admiration for its programming. Most people remember "the moment when you emerge into Hyrule Field for the first time" or specific tracks in a race game, etc.

>> No.2308642

>>2308637
God, there's nothing like the first Hyrule field or the first time leaving Midgar. Those games knew how to make the world in the earliest moments matter, and then make them so so small with a simple world map.

>> No.2308660
File: 75 KB, 1321x563, Forest Temple.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2308660

One of my absolute favorites.

>> No.2309008

>>2308617
I think you really hit the nail on the head. I replayed the 3DS version a few weeks ago, and moving on and accepting loss is such a huge part of the game, all the way through. The Song of Healing really plays into this; You get new masks by playing the Song of Healing for the tormented souls of fallen heroes, allowing them to find peace. I think the cutscenes that play each time you "heal" Termina's heroes show this off really well. Dariuna sees all the Gorons he's helped, allowing him to see that despite the fact that he's failed this time, he's had a tremendous positive effect on his people. Mikau sees Lulu and the rest of the band, and gets to play with them one more time.

Ultimately, I think Majora's Mask does an excellent job of examining the darker side of what it means to be a hero. No one person, no matter how incredible, can be everywhere and help everyone, and all heroes fall eventually. What matters is that heroes make the world a better place, and they have a tremendously positive impact on the people whose lives they touch. In a way, Link represents how important it is for a new generation of heroes to step up and take the place of the last generation of heroes. It's said a couple times throughout the game that Termina is a doomed world without Link.

Anon who wrote the original temple analyses here, monitoring this thread.

>> No.2309570

OP here. I might do a write up on MM once I have some time, but for now I've got one more part of OOT I want to talk about.

This isn't really what I'd call analytical, but there's a pretty funny analogy set up in OoT that I think a lot of people didn't catch. I'm talking about Talon and Ingo.

Let's look at Talon, he's a fat man in a red shirt and blue overalls who has a lot of facial hair.

Now let's look at Ingo - he's taller and skinnier than Talon, has a big mustache, and wears a green shirt and white overalls (Luigi's outfit in the first Super Mario Bros.). The reason Ingo becomes such an asshole in the adult Hyrule is because he was mad about being 'second fiddle' to Talon. During Link's childhood he was complaining about Talon getting all the credit despite him working harder.

I just think it's funny that the whole subplot that results in you getting Epona was really just a Mario Bros. parody where the Luigi look-a-like becomes a villain because he's pissed the Mario look-a-like is the one who always got to be in charge. Everyone knows about the Bowser pendant Malon wears, and I think that was actually added to her to further the connection between Talon/Ingo and the Mario Bros.

I like talking about the depth of the game as much as the next guy, but I think that these sillier, more frivolous aspects of the game really go a long way in making it charming and keeping it fun. I've always thought that OoT has a really good balance between light and heavy moments. I'd say the way the game balances its tone is one of its greatest strengths, really.

>> No.2309576

>>2309008
Hey guy, glad you found this thread. If you don't mind I actually have two questions I'd like to ask.
1. What's your take on my child dungeon analyses? I thought yours were very interesting, so I'd like to know.
2. I'm planning on doing some videogame review videos down the line, and one of them will be about OoT. I'm gonna use pretty much everything I've written about the game so far, and I was wondering if I could use some of what you wrote about the temples. I'd credit you for it, and if you want me to credit you as anything other than "anon from /vr/" I'd be happy to do so. If you don't want me to use what you wrote, I won't.

>> No.2309658

I've always felt that, though I'm honestly not one to care about the argument of whether videogames can be art or not (though, why one might say they're not, I don't know why), if I were to make an argument of a videogame being a work of art, it would have to be Majora's Mask.
Majora's Mask was an absolute roller coaster of emotions for me; it wasn't just about "You're the chosen one, go save the world". You see the impact the moon's falling has on each person's life in the Clocktown. They ALL have something to say about the crisis at hand. And it's not just Clocktown's inhabitants that need your help, it's every race in Termina that has some kind of problem you need to deal with. There's all kinds of grand-scale things going on, but what brings it all together, what really makes the world truly feel alive, are the relations you create with people on a personal level. There's Pamela, the little girl whose father is in an irreversible, mummified state until you come along. There's Koume, the witch injured in the Forest of Mystery, and her sister, Kotake, who sends you out to give her a healing potion, and will even go out of her way to find her sister on her own if you don't give her the potion after a day. It's things like this that make the setting of Majora's Mask an incredibly interesting and lively world to interact in.

>> No.2309660

And when you finally bring happiness to each person's life, you can't help but feel like the worst person on the planet when you finally turn back the clock to reset time back to the first day. I honestly started to tear up just a little after I finally completed Anju and Kafei's sidequest.
The game also does a fantastic job of getting a feeling of suspense through elements of gameplay alone. I remember being down on my hearts on the Gyrorg boss, having spent the greater half of my evening finding all the fairies in the Stone Temple, when the countdown on the 3rd day began ticking. That feeling of suspense was absolutely killer, and words cannot express my joy when I finally beat him with 2 minutes left to spare. And the screen reduction effect used in conjunction with the bells chiming as each new day approaces is hands-down one of the most effective techniques to convey the dread each new day brings, I feel. And the various masks, along with the different playstyles they bring with them, allow for some of the best playground-style elements in the Zelda series. Rolling around in Termina field as a Goron and swimming in the ocean as a Zora kicks the crap out of riding around on Epona and sailing the ocean/sky in other Zeldas.
I'm honestly only scratching the surface as to why Majora's Mask is not only one of my favorite Zeldas, but one of my favorite games of all time.

>> No.2309671

>>2300291
Strategy guides were pretty common back then, Nintendo pushed it pretty hard for this game. I got the Prima one myself.

>> No.2309674
File: 1.88 MB, 288x288, oh shit.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2309674

>>2300369

>> No.2309787

Gays. I know this is OT but regardless. When I was playing Skyward Sword I remember reading this DANK series of articles explaining the themes and shit of the various dungeons. In a style similar to what anons are doing here, but with more knowledge about myths and legends influencing Zelda games.

Actually fuck me, I found it.

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2012/01/allegories-in-architecture-the-ancient-cistern/

HIGHLY interesting read for those who love Zelda games. Sorry for the OT.

>> No.2310065
File: 279 KB, 1276x1648, 1389196240833.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2310065

Link to past thread? I'd like to read it.

>> No.2310110

>>2309570

That was a very obvious and intentional joke, anon.

>> No.2310389

>>2309576
1. I think you did a great job. I didn't really go into them because they're a lot more limited than the adult temples, and they tend to line up pretty directly with the themes present in their corresponding adult dungeon, but I think you got at the heart of what they're about. The Deku Tree you could possibly expand upon and look at how the entire dungeon is basically a tutorial for how dungeons work in 3d space. If I remember correctly, I believe every room has some sort of vertical component, and it really conditions the player to think in terms of the Z axis rather than just X and Y. Even the boss fight ties into this, as you can't start the fight until you look up at the ceiling.

I hadn't actually considered the Jabu-Jabu as puberty angle, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Especially since puberty is essentially the logical endpoint of childhood, and Jabu Jabu is the last dungeon before you become adult Link.

2. Yeah, man, go for it. I had at one point planned on doing some sort of blog based around this kind of analysis, but I never actually got it off the ground. "Anon from /vr/ works fine, that's about as specific as you can get citing an anonymous source. Maybe I'll actually revisit that idea and make something more concrete, I dunno.

>> No.2310408

I liked how the temples in OoT were actually temples - places of worship. Temples in TP and SS are just called Temples because it's ~Zelda Tradition™~

>> No.2310443
File: 253 KB, 560x500, Majoras_Maske.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2310443

>>2309660
And then there's the "Moon". Honestly I'm not even sure this last section of the game takes place inside the moon, I don't remember it being said anywhere, but correct me if necessary.

Anyway, after you've felt all the suspense, anticipating a huge boss fight on top of clock tower, being despaired because even the four giants can't stop Majora's Mask... you suddenly find yourself on a green meadow, with a slight hill and an old tree at the center. This was just magic for me, because as I played I wasn't going WTF all the way, but I somehow accepted what whas happening. It felt weird, but not wrong like poorly made games with inconsistent plots feel. Then the kids with their very mysterious and unsettling phrases...

>Your friends…What kind of…people are they?
>I wonder…Do those people…think of you…as a friend?

>You…What makes you…happy?
>I wonder…What makes you happy…Does it make…others happy, too?

>The right thing…What is it?
>I wonder…If you do the right thing…Does it really make…everybody…happy?

>Your true face…What kind of…face is it?
>I wonder…The face under the mask…Is that…your true face?

...and keep in mind that you're not wearing any mask when you hear that last (or any) phrase.

>> No.2310467

>>2310065
literally read the thread, people posted previous analysis

>> No.2310471

>>2310443

It was the final life you learnt about: Skullkid himself.

If I recall skullkids are runaways who get trapped by spirits in the Lost Woods.

>> No.2310487

>>2310471
The article I linked earlier contains tons of amazing thoughtful interpretations about MM:
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/2011/09/13/the-message-of-majoras-mask/

Looking back I really wonder that as a kid I never got that the moon was crying, as is implied by the falling moon tear


Random fun quote from OoT, Poe Collector:
>You know, If I was as good looking as you, I'd start another type of business!

>> No.2310649
File: 28 KB, 620x205, hmgO9IN-620x.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2310649

>>2310443
>And then there's the "Moon".
On the subject of that:
I was definitely one of the people furious at the moon's new face, but the more I looked at it, the more I grew fond of it. MatthewMatosis described the old moon's face as something that wasn't anything concrete, that it could be interpreted different ways; some see it as angry, some sullen, some sad, in pain, whatever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iO1ckmGe-do#t=1714

While I do feel that this ability to interpret an expression is lost in the redesign, I have to say, I kinda like the new face's expression better. It looks like its face is being pulled back, Ludovico Technique-style, and it's being forced against its will to collide with Termina. It makes scenes like the Moon's Tear landing make that much more sense, now that we're able to concretely identify its expression.

>> No.2310659
File: 147 KB, 481x267, dede6e44_ludovico-technique.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2310659

>>2310649
What do you guys think?

>> No.2310789

>>2310487
>You know, If I was as good looking as you, I'd start another type of business!

The game's got a couple of those scattered throughout. Nabooru tells you she'll do something "really great" for you if you get her the gauntlets from the Spirit Temple, then says "if only I had known you'd become such a handsome man... I should have kept the promise I made back then."

Nabooru wanted the D.

>> No.2310963

>>2310649
MM3D is fan remake as far as I'm concerned

>> No.2311006
File: 5 KB, 260x194, 1422987913819.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2311006

>>2310963
agreed

>> No.2311678
File: 4 KB, 500x480, tumblr_n9j8xlJOK31qb6564o3_500.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2311678

>>2310963

>> No.2311815

>>2309570
Epona is Yoshi.

>> No.2312073

>>2300286
You forgot to mention that the bombchu lady is a hot piece of ass.

>> No.2314003
File: 304 KB, 1175x767, Chica_del_Minijuego_MM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2314003

>>2312073

>> No.2314587

>>2308625
That's an interesting twist. I wouldn't call the giants hokey, though. Personally, they were my favorite feature in Maj. I think that in line with your point about not being able to save everyone, ultimately, the fate of the world belongs to a source of power far greater than you. What matters for you, as a player, is whether or not you will aid that power, or if you will try to take on the responsibility of saving the world yourself, which is an exercise in futility and human limitation.

>> No.2314618

>>2310963

Finally, someone who gets it. I thought I was the only one who took one look at MM3D and said "That's it, I'm out Nintendo. You can fuck around with Mario all you like, you can be ham-handed with 10 WW re-releases, but now you have fucked with a piece of my childhood in the most disrespectful and clueless manner possible. Go rot in the lime-pit with Sega, we're through.".

>>2310443

I don't think it's in the moon either, per se. I think at that point you're in a pocket dimension created specifically by Majora fusing with the moon. There's some heavy-duty magic involved in that place.

>> No.2314636
File: 40 KB, 779x599, bombchugirl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2314636

>>2312073
>Implying she has an ass

>> No.2314698
File: 10 KB, 127x126, 1329947236835.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2314698

>>2310443
>Your true face…What kind of…face is it?

>when you clap...with one hand...what sound does it make?

mm confirmed for koan-territory.

>> No.2314748

I'm sorry if you've seen this kind of post multiple times already, but I just can't seem to enjoy OoT. My first exposure to the game was a 100% speedrun I saw back in 2007. Now the question is, was this the thing that made me not enjoy the game? Is this game more fun blind than if you know how much the game can be broken from the get go?

>> No.2315052

>>2314748
It's more fun blind, or with exploration as a full focus.

>> No.2315334

>>2314748
I can't tell you man, I've played the game for over a decade now and know Damn near everything about it but still adore the Hell out of It.
You have to suspend your disbelief and just let yourself get lost in it. For an early 3d game they really manage to get you immersed and make you care about the story and world.

>> No.2315661

>>2314748
>My first exposure to the game was... back in 2007

I'm sorry.

>> No.2315685

>>2314748

youre fucked. im sorry your life is a shallow meaningless waste

>> No.2315840

>>2315052
I was afraid this would be the case.

>>2315334
But I also find the owl to be annoying. Why I'm not allowed to fuck aroundon the world map until things happen or get my ass kicked is beyond me. Another character I find incredibly annoying is Navi. She has no personality and only serves as an infodump, something future instalments of the series fixes. She also tells you how to open a door in the first dungeon, and how to open a chest. This is unnecessary since the only thing a player needs to be told is that the action the A button preforms can change and when it does change, you can see what the new action is. This would allow the developers to cut down on interruptions in gameplay in the very first dungeon for players that are already familiar with how a 3D-space works and how to navigate one. Alternatively, do like Kirby Superstar and ask the player if they've already played the game before.

The point I'm trying to make is that the characters that are supposed to act as infodumps are just that -- they're infodumps, nothing more, nothing less. If they had some sort of personality that was introduced from the very first second of gameplay, I'd be way happier with their design.

>>2315661
Yeah, I have no idea why this was. I didn't know what Zelda was until Twilight Princess was released.

----
Oh I guess I should also state that Majora's Mask is my favourite game in the series mainly because very little in that game is set in stone.

>> No.2315871

>>2315840
>Why I'm not allowed to fuck aroundon the world map until things happen
Once you leave Kokiri forest you pretty much can, can't you?

>> No.2315881

>>2315871
But the owl exists. It tells me areas are dangerous. I don't want the game to tell me this, I want to figure that out by myself after the game kicks my ass by throwing endgame enemies at me.

>> No.2315882

>>2315881
Ignore it then. You can go whereever you can go. And there are no endgame enemies on the overworld that I remember..

>> No.2315914

>>2300319
>Darunia loses the fight against Volvagia because he has lost his hammer penis
>he has lost his hammer penis
>hammer penis

>> No.2316190

My own headcanon tries to justify every area lore-wise rather than symbolism-wise, as I hate dungeons that are just physics-defying elemental obstacle courses that have no right to exist.

The Forest Temple is just a haunted manor, fortified during the civil war. The family of nobles who hid away in the forest to escape the violence were killed regardless when the opposing side tracked them down and ransacked the place, leaving them to haunt it as the Poe Sisters, and the fallen soldiers to remain as Stalfos or Wall/Floormasters. The harder-to-justify, more clearly "videogame" features like the giant chessboard, the twisted corridors, the puzzle blocks etc can be handwaved as effects of the haunting, or of Ganon's evil influence. Also, the "forest spirits" that Saria can hear in the meadow? Probably just the tortured souls wailing from the temple.

The Fire Temple to me seems like an ancient dwelling, ruins of some extinct civilisation which have been largely reclaimed by the mountain. The jail cells, as well as the labyrinth of fire walls and rolling boulders, lends some credence to the idea that it was utilised by the Gorons during the civil war as a prison for captured soldiers -- they could rot in the cells, or they could be loosed into the maze of boulders and flames for sport.

The Water Temple seems much less sinister than all the others, and indeed it comes off as something of utility rather than punishment -- somewhere for the Zora to pray to the water spirits (the rooms with the serpent statues, the Dark Link chamber with the island and the natural caverns below the temple with the whirlpools), and also some sort of underground aqueduct system to facilitate water supplies throughout the kingdom. Its wholly natural enemies support this -- aside from Morpha, created by Ganon, and Dark Link, which I believe is just a byproduct of the room you fight him in (some sort of Zora bewitchment where non-Zora intruders are apprehended by their own shadow).

Cont.

>> No.2316215

>>2316190
The Shadow Temple is clearly a series of catacombs, likely for the fallen dead of the civil war. While I'm sure Ganon's placing Bongo Bongo within made it more magically fucked-up, it was still likely a spooky place. I reckon the Sheikah used it, while still sworn to serve the Royal Family of Hyrule, as a means to hold, interrogate, terrify, torture and eventually execute captured enemies during the war. The Dead Hand, which seems to be a kind of naturally-occurring phenomenon due to its appearance in the past outside Ganon's sphere of influence, was probably fed prisoners, and this kind of brutality might be what led the Royal Family to decide enough was enough, and possibly execute the Sheikah themselves for being so savage. Impa's apparent knowledge of the Temple suggests she was the only Sheikah who disagreed with its usage, explaining why she remains as trusted protector of the Princess. Something else that could be considered to explain the Sheikah's disappearance is their disturbance of the burial grounds -- if the catacombs were in use before the war, then the Sheikah perverting their purpose to use for torture and murder might have caused the spirits to punish them directly, perhaps turning them into the Gibdos, Stalfos and ReDead that inhabit the Temple and the dungeon beneath the well (which may well be a separate wing of the temple).

Finally, the Spirit Temple is clearly a colossus of the "goddess of the sand". Whether this refers to Din or some other unknown deity isn't clear, but what is certain is that the temple is a literal place of worship for the Gerudo. Or, maybe not.

The Gerudo we encounter live in a fortress. The vast majority we encounter are uniformed soldiers, on constant patrol. Why wouldn't a people as advanced as the Gerudo have a huge Arabesque city? What value is a King if he only rules a dusty plateau, without a palace or throne to speak of?

Cont.

>> No.2316231

>>2316215
To me, it's clear that the Gerudo we meet are a kind of border patrol, if not military scouts. The fact that Ganondorf explicitly pledges his allegiance to the Hyrulean dynasty, without mention of reparations for misdeeds on either side, suggests that there's no bad blood between the two. The knowledge the Hylian people have of the Gerudo is sparse, built on rumours and not much else.

I think the Gerudo live way, way out of bounds, far out into (and perhaps on the other side of) the desert we visit during the course of the game. Somewhere, they have their own opulent desert kingdom, which Ganondorf ruled over for a time, before the Hyrulean civil war broke out. Since Ganondorf was so thirsty for the Triforce the kingdom held, he led a detachment of soldiers and farmers across the desert, to the valley that marks the borders of Hyrule, to build an outpost there to launch an eventual attack from. Hence why they've barricaded the bridge in the past, with guards patrolling the other side -- and once Ganon's made his move and secured the throne in the future, all pretenses have been dropped and the bridge has been destroyed.

So, the Spirit Temple. Being likely right between the valley outpost and their homeland, it could be a long-abandoned ruin of an ancient culture, like the Fire Temple, a gigalithic complex that celebrates some heathen god. The death traps within -- Beamos, Armos, blade traps et al -- could just as easily be ancient booby traps as modern Gerudo safeguards, since Koume and Kotake have made it their base of operations; meanwhile, the sun/mirror puzzles, giant marble blocks, Mirror Shield and Silver Gauntlets are clearly holdovers from the original worshippers, just as the Iron Knuckles and spookier monsters are inventions of the witches.

Cont.

>> No.2316261

>>2316231
The desert's trials - the river of sand and the Phantom Guide -- may have just been phenomena the Gerudo encountered on their way to the valley and overcame, or perhaps were created by the witches afterwards, once they seized the Temple. Ganondorf likely practiced his black magic with them there, out of sight of his subjects -- and it's a long shot, but maybe their blasphemy against whatever god the temple is dedicated to is what lets Link find the two treasures of the temple, and use them to kill the witches and free the temple from their influence.

There's not really much more. The interior of the Deku Tree could be explained by being a giant fucking magic tree -- perhaps his Kokiri attendants use the paths, ladders and bridges within to tend to him and cull the Deku parasites that tend to grow inside -- and the Dodongo's Cavern is a rock mine where the Gorons accidentally excavated a bunch of dinosaur fossils. Jabu Jabu might be the same as the Deku Tree, since Ruto has been walking around inside him since forever. The Ice Cavern is just a more physical manifestation of the evil influence Ganon exerted on the Zoran mountain area; where the domain was simply frozen over, the cavern was infested with Freezards, Ice Keese and giant whirling ice-scythes (though if you believe that the cavern is part of TP's Snowpeak range, it might just be a naturally arctic place).

On another topic completely, all the pre-rendered backgrounds of the Market, Temple of Time, Courtyard and interior houses are fucking amazing, and the fully rendered replacements in OoT3D lose a lot of charm in my opinion. http://www.glitterberri.com/ocarina-of-time/prerendered-backgrounds/

>> No.2316284

>>2316261

>On another topic completely, all the pre-rendered backgrounds of the Market, Temple of Time, Courtyard and interior houses are fucking amazing, and the fully rendered replacements in OoT3D lose a lot of charm in my opinion

just looked this up, wow fucking hideous aesthetic decision they made. Why are Nintendo so bad at remakes.

>> No.2316294

>>2316190

they're temples

places of worship and mysticism

>> No.2316307

>>2315881

Actually what you are feeling is completely natural vis a vis the owl. Would you believe me if I told you people "back in the day" hated the little fucker too, even the weirdos that didn't mind Navi (I was one of said weirdos <.<)? I had never played another goddamned thing up until stumbling on the series via OOT but Mario and Sonic (you can imagine the force of my mind being blown to bits), and after my first playthrough I was sick of that feathery fuck. Really, if you want to pinpoint when Nintendo's severe case of "helicopter parent" in the Zelda series started, that goddamn owl is one of your earliest pre-cursors. I think they believed the sight of Hyrule Field for the first time might intimidate the younger players into not playing as often, so they brought back the owl archetype from Link's Awakening. Unfortunately they overdid it and he became one of the few genuinely annoying aspects of the game instead.

>>2316261
>>2316231
>>2316215
>>2316190

This is some quality gold shit right here. You and I think very much alike, my friend.

>> No.2316348

>>2314748
>I watched someone else complete a game in it's entirety. Why can't I enjoy playing it now?

>> No.2316464

>>2314003
>>2314636
Don't ruin my inaccurate memories, you cunts.

>> No.2317991
File: 503 KB, 224x168, bombchu~.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2317991

>>2316464
>>2314003

>> No.2318020
File: 40 KB, 94x142, Screen Shot 2015-03-30 at 4.51.39 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2318020

>>2317991
hnnngnn she wants it so bad

>> No.2321256

very enjoyable thread

>> No.2321697

I'll be using this thread since I think I shouldn't make a new one if this one is already around. I realized today that it has been more than a decade since the last time I played OoT and I really want to play it again. Thing is, I played the uncensored version when I got it the first time and with so many changed versions around now, I want to make sure I'm getting the correct one. Other than the original cartridges, do recent and special versions can also come unchanged? I mean the GC version with Master Quest, the VC version and 3DS version too. I feel that if I play it without Fire Temple chantings or real Mirror Shield it won't be the same. Nostalgia talking but you know what I mean.

If there's no option I'll just buy a N64 and try to hunt for an early copy.

>> No.2321713

>>2321697
GC version is where it changed, VC version is the GC version stripped from the ISO, 3DS version has the changes as well.

If you have access to a Wii you could emulate the original game with Not64 no problem, otherwise i would go with buying it again.

>> No.2321716

>>2321713
I have a modded Wii but didn't bother with N64 emulation since almost every game I played ran horrible. How stable is OoT in emu?

>> No.2321726

>>2321716
It's significantly better than it was a few years ago, but games like SM64 and OoT always ran fine.

Here's the link to the latest version.
http://files.extremscorner.org/wii/apps/mupen64/latest

>> No.2321731

>>2321716
>>2321726
If you know how to inject .wads into your Wii, you can actually find one that has the original version of OoT and just put that into your Wii, that way it just uses Nintendo's N64 built-in emulator.

>> No.2321736

>>2321731
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxE7UsUqSvU this video has the download link for the .wad in it's description.

>> No.2321961

>>2321697
It, too, has been well over a decade since I played OoT. Didn't even realize they censored things (looks like I played the original version?).


Reading through this thread, might have to play through it again.

>> No.2322014 [DELETED] 
File: 66 KB, 286x260, 286px-Ocarina_of_Time_Gold_Logo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2322014

Majoras mask was a cunt and sold onname brand alone.
>retarded story
>even more annoying navi
>worst characters, FUCKING TINGLE
>retarded time mechanic
>clock town fetch quests and DIARY fucking DIARY
>masks mechanic
this was bad in OOT, but just a side quest filler made it fun and acceptable, the whole focus of mask in this game is stupid and annoying, it deviates too far from what made OOT great, dungeons, princess, bosses and LINK.
mask man, skull kid and majora is just too fucking far out acid trip.
Did I mention the moon? nigger are you high ?
deku scrub flower poppin stupidity
goron rolling retardedness
zora swimming bonk everything

miyamoto gave them too much free rein and they took what could have been an amazing sequel ti OOT and managed to shit out soem stand alone what the fuck is gong on retarded pile of shit.
Take away the zelda name, and link clothes and this would have stood shoulder to shoulder with all the other fail heap of shit games the N64 is infamous for, its superman tier.

good music? ywah the clock town theme and battle tracks, no catchy ocarina melodies, oh?
THATS BECASUE YOURE PLAYING A FUCKING TRUMPET, FISH GUITAR OR BONGOS LLOLOLOL!

[cont...]

>> No.2322015
File: 837 KB, 1000x693, 161-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2322015

[cont...]

convoluted dungeons and annoying side quest like that fucking crying baby or the fish egg tanks.
even 100% speed runs cant be optimised becasue of so much back and fourth.

UFOs? what the fuck is that in my zelda for?
FAIRY MASK LOL! cant forget this shit, cross dressing is fun! did I mention you have to catch all the faries !
100 gold skultullas was cool in OOT right?
LETS MAKE ROOMS WHERE YOU HAVE TO GET 20 OF THEM! that'll waste some time !

LETS REMOVE THE SAVE FUNCTION AND PUT SOME STUPID OWLS IN, THAT MAKES SENSE, KIDS LIKE OWLS, no nigger thats the illuminati.

I dont hate this game, but I hate the fact they ruined the opportunity to make a good OOT sequel, this is not zelda, this is a piece of shit mask and dress up game where I need to make a diary to serve and keep people happy while I try to get my horse back but the ominous moon.

This whole shit game could have been avoided if miyamoto gave direction and we wer'nt a little faggot and KEPT OUR GOD DAMN FUCKING HORSE AND RODE IT PAST THIS SHITTY TOWN WITH A WEIRD PEDO MASK MAN, NO I DONT WANT A FUCKING MASK FUCK OFF.

OOT 4LYFE

>> No.2322042
File: 338 KB, 500x670, tumblr_mrx8y6VWhR1sg5z7lo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2322042

>Aonuma:
To think, making a sequel to that game in a year… at first, I had no clue about what sort of game I should do, and the planning period just stretched on and on… that’s when Miyamoto and the other director, Koizumi, thought up a 3 day system where you’d be able to play through the same compact world over and over again, and I could finally see everything coming together.

>Aonuma:
Yup. *laughing* The sequel was totally trial and error at first, however. In the end, once we’d adopted the 3 day system, we decided to destroy the world if the player couldn’t clear the game in 3 days.

>1 year development
>3 day system
>compact world
>over and over
>*laughing*

MM a shit.

http://www.glitterberri.com/ocarina-of-time/how-ura-zelda-became-majoras-mask/

>> No.2322081

>>2300345
Nope, I think you're completely on point.
Don't forget that the second time you meet Ruto it's inside an area that's famous for being really hard to navigate/understand and that you fight a dark copy of yourself and a giant throbbing tentacle that grabs you then tries to crush you.
Also before you enter Jabu-Jabu you literally have to make Ruto's dad get out of the way.

>> No.2322094
File: 347 KB, 487x536, 1402760585713.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2322094

>>2301704
>If Link fails to use adequate protection throughout the boss fight, VolVAGia will indeed leave his penis with a lasting burning sensation.

>> No.2322910

>>2300315
>>2300320
>>2316215
I've never really known what to make of the shadow temple or the bottom of the well.
Even the first time I played it as a kid I immediately picked up on the fact that it was full of torture equipment (thanks horrible histories) and that it was built by the royal family and not Ganondorf but I couldn't really come to terms with the idea that anyone other than Ganondorf and his pals had ever done anything evil.
Whenever In replay OoT I still don't know what to think, sometimes I feel like it was just put in to encourage discussion.

>> No.2323762

>>2322910
Pretty sure we need a BDSM reading for the Shadow Temple now. Will anons oblige?

>> No.2323953

>>2322014
>>2322015
Sperg harder, why don't you?

>> No.2324646

>>2300304
If you go even deeper, the Forest Temple shows that the forest may not have always been a peaceful place only inhabited by fairies and children, as it is designed like a ransacked fortress, suggesting there were once fierce battles fought on this seemingly sacred ground

>> No.2324756
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2324756

>>2305692
>>2305692
>Gay construction men go looking for fag-hags but Gerudo women are strong, independent women who don't need no flaming bffs.

>> No.2324932

>>2324646
The Lost Woods in general is a creepy place.

>> No.2325391

I don't want this thread to die

>> No.2325410

>>2324932
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Pv4c4Qz9w

>> No.2325576

>>2322910
I think the bottom of the well is about looking back on your childhood as an adult and taking off the rose tinted glasses. It's the darkerst/scariest area you visit as a kid, you need information you get as an adult to access it and the reward is an item that lets you see hidden truths.

>> No.2325579

>>2300313
If the Fire Temple reinforces masculine, heroic themes, then it could be said the Water Temple is a mastery of the feminine with the masculine. The Water Temple is often regarded as the most confusing of the dungeons since there is a lot of back and forth involved with the water level manipulation, which in turn opens or bars different paths at every level, kind of mirroring the stereotype of women being "mysterious," or difficult to understand, with emotions that constantly change. Now consider the fact that to progress in the dungeon, you get the longshot, which is easily the most phallic of all of Link's equipment. Morpha (?) is a water boss that embraces and swallows you up before spitting you out. To kill it you have to penetrate it with the longshot and pull out the blob thing inside it.

>> No.2325586

>>2300301
Forest Temple was best temple.

>> No.2325591

Link's Awakening is ripe for this kind of fun bullshit analysis.

>> No.2325604

>>2325591
Theere's a decent article that ties together Link's Awakening, Ocarina, Majora and Wind Waker together in a fairly convincing way.
zeldauniverse.net/2011/09/14/immortal-childhood/

>> No.2325627

>>2309658
>>2309660
You know what scares me?

That instead of going back in time and have the Goddess of time magically fixing things in the last play, you just jump to another dimension, leaving the inhabitants to die while you jump to a timeline where it hasn't happened yet.

>> No.2325668

>>2325627
I guess a quantum theory of Termina can work also.

>> No.2325676

>>2325668
Luckily, the end of MM suggests that the Goddess of Time merged the differents timelines, making everyone happy.

Except the poor creatures that you murdered over the course of the game, of course.

>> No.2326020
File: 72 KB, 500x351, RuhRoh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2326020

>>2325410
> On some other trail
> hear this music come out of nowhere

nope

>> No.2326036

>>2301513
That's definitely not true. Because Biblical stories are more foreign to Japan, the narratives come across as being more "exotic". There are shit-loads of Biblical allusions in Japanese narratives.

>> No.2326614
File: 287 KB, 800x600, zelda let&#039;s be friends.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2326614

>>2322910
The old man in Kakariko village says that the site of the well is where a man who could see the truth lived. The man may have been a Sheikah, since the Lens of Truth is the Sheikah symbol. The Sheikah were the royal family's servants in the shadows, and it's possible that they meddled in forbidden domains in order to gain the power needed to protect their lords. Perhaps the man achieved "truth" by performing gruesome, Lovecraftian experiments on both the living and the dead, or maybe by making a Faustian pact with dark entities. That would explain the prevalence of unholy creatures such as Dead Hand, Gibdos, Redeads, and Bubbles within the well. Illusions are unnatural phenomena, so it makes sense that one must understand forces outside of the natural world (the dead, spirits, demons, curses) to see past them

>> No.2326630
File: 8 KB, 320x288, zelda oracle perfect ending.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2326630

>>2325604
It better include the Oracle games; that's canonically linked to LA

>> No.2326685
File: 465 KB, 548x357, rick and morty cronenberg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2326685

>>2325627

>> No.2327191

>>2326630
Does that mean LttP Link has the most games out of any Link?

>> No.2327527

>>2325410
shoulda played it windmill style

>> No.2328370

>>2327191
Yeah, he has four (Lttp, OoS, OoA and LA) while the most any other Link has is two.

I haven't played Link Between Worlds but I think he may also be the Link of that game as well, I'm not sure.

>> No.2328404

>>2328370
>I haven't played Link Between Worlds but I think he may also be the Link of that game as well, I'm not sure.

He's not, it takes place generations later.

>> No.2328473

>>2300426
Will swallow absolutely anything and let it live inside itself?

>> No.2328629

>>2325579

Which gender or sex do the temples represent? An excellent question, and one that deserves further analysis. Is one or the other temple truly meant to represent man and woman? If so, what does this mean for our understanding of the game?
Is Link's journey through puberty marked by the reconciliation within himself of his masculine and feminine traits? Is Link meant to represent the androgyne, not neutered, but multifluous - not sexless, but male and female both? Is androgyny meant to function as an ideal model for the individual subject? Is Link trans? Is Zelda trans? What if Zelda WAS a girl? Does that mean Link is gay or lesbian?

Consider the following. If the Fire Temple is about manhood and masculinity, based on a community of brothers, ruled by a father, home to his son, ending with a battle, not with an anthropomorphic vagina as some misguided posters have suggested, but an entirely more phallic beast - One that, like an erection, emerges at inconvenient times, triggered randomly at the slightest stimulus and eluding Link's control -One that, similar to but not completely alike to a Bellend, ejaculates great balls of fire...

If all of the above is true, and the water temple therefore represents femininity and the female form, a temple whose guardian is a strong, independent woman who makes it clear on several occasions she don't need no Link - if all this is true, what does this mean for Morpha? I'll tell you what it means, friends. If Link's battle with the Amoeba - a cellular organism which grows through replication - can only be concluded by taking the strange blob out of the uteral monstrosity, is it not possible that the entire fight represents Link's first abortion?

>> No.2328637

>>2326614
Or perhaps the truth is simpler still. Maybe the truth - the truth that only a Sheikah would know, responsible for carrying out the agendas of the royal family, much like a secret service- maybe the truth is that the entire kingdom is built on death and bloodshed. The walking corpses represent the people whose lives were claimed by the birth of the kingdom itself. Doesn't it say at one point that the King of Hyrule unites the provinces into one nation after or during a Civil War? We've already seen the the royal family condone torture through the Shadow Temple. Furthermore, the Royal Family's seal can be found in the homelands of the other races and species. Maybe the Gorons and Zoras weren't allied to the Royal Family, but subjected by it. Maybe the Gerudo were one of the few people not conquered and turned into a colony, but managed to maintain their independence.

>> No.2328739

>>2328629
I hold Freud personally responsible for this.

>> No.2328743

>>2328629
The water temple is a great big vagina.

>> No.2328748

>>2328629
>>2328637
Talk about games for children huh

>> No.2329770

>>2328629
Morpha's shapelessness represents the capriciousness nature of the fairer sex. Only by hitting the clitoris/G-spot/hymen can Link get her under control, exploiting her feminine primal urges by acting as a dominant sexual partner. Once he's satisfied her desires as a woman, she's literally putty in his hands

>> No.2329994

>>2328629
>Link goes inside the Deku Tree
>kills "parasitic" lifeform inside body
>Link goes to Dodongo Cavern
>murders all Dodongo's kids
>goes inside Jabu Jabu
>kills "intestinal" lifeform growing inside his body
>goes to Water Temple
>violently aborts foetus inside giant aquatic placenta: Morpha
>gets locked out of Hyrule Castle at night
>murders a thousand Stalchildren, the walking corpses of murdered children, presumably also murdered by Link
>Welcome to Legend of Zelda: Abortions across Time

WTF is wrong with this kid.

>> No.2330014

triforce is a vagina metaphor

>> No.2330091

>>2300301
The forest temple was very successful in giving you this feeling that you're isolated in the middle of nowhere in a huge mansion filled with ghosts and monsters and there's nobody around to help you

The music also reminds me of how alone I really am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEkq3Ro_M80

It's creepy and unsettling but not scary

>> No.2330096

>>2300309
Makes sense so far

Forest Temple- Courage- because you get this sense of creepiness and loneliness from it

Fire Temple- Power- You have to defeat a dragon with the raw strength of a hammer

Water Temple- Wisdom- Lots of puzzles, some of them tedious, lots of patience and courage needed.

>> No.2330113
File: 151 KB, 1152x648, master%20sword%202[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2330113

>>2300369
>>2300369
>It's not until you stop and think do you realize Sacred Forest Meadow is where the Master Sword should have gone before ultimately relocating to the Temple of Time.

Worth noting that hundreds of years later, in Twilight Princess, the Temple Of Time has wasted away and lays in ruins, and the forest has overgrown around it, and this is where you find the Master Sword, still resting where OOT Link left it

>> No.2330117

>>2304282
>The other theory is that the Goron Mines are an extended Dodongo cavern.

Well yeah, I thought everyone saw this

After OOT the Gorons had their cave cleared out of the dodongos so they were free to keep digging and eating their rocks until they dug deep into the lava-filled parts.

I always felt that forested area was the ruins of the hyrule market, now overgrown with forests, and the master sword still rested on the pedestal of time, within the ruins of the temple of time where Child Link left it

>> No.2330130
File: 3.05 MB, 2250x2474, Termina.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2330130

>>2308617
>>2308617
>In the hopes that this'll kick start some new discussion, I thought I'd have a try at some observations about MM

Ok here we go

pic related, I've pieced this together and always get a ton of backlash, but it makes sense to some extent

Just keep an open mind and hear me out

Before you start complaining that Majora's Mask happened after OOT, remember that the triforce works in mysterious ways, and it has sent link to different time periods and places in the past.

When Link falls in that hole while chasing the skull kid, it may have taken him to a world deep in the past, in Termina, way before Hyrule existed.

>> No.2330136

>>2330130
So get this

The skull kid, while wondering through the lost woods as he does, stumbles upon the happy mask salesman and steals Majora's Mask

Either with or without Majora's help, he stumbles into a hole in the forest with some kind of enchantment that sends you thousands of years back, even before the residents of the land were sent to the sky in Skyward Sword.

Here, Majora concocts a sinister plan; to destroy Hyrule in a time period when even the Hero Of Time wasn't around yet to stop it.

Fortunately, fate (or the triforce's influence) happen to send Link to that part of the forest while looking for an old friend (probably Navi)

He chases the Skull Kid down the hole and finds himself in the Termina time period, with a moon threatening to destroy the land.

>> No.2330139

>>2328637
>maybe the truth is that the entire kingdom is built on death and bloodshed.

Makes sense, lots of countries are built on bloodshed, genocide, and war, but the country does a decent job of hiding it later on, and a lot of people don't see it unless they go out of their way and research

>> No.2330159
File: 132 KB, 1024x576, clock_tower__majora_s_mask_by_wesleypaquette-d7qg542.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2330159

>>2330130
Now I've always considered Termina to be a straight opposite of OoTs world, the desert is an ocean(with similar don't walk off the path or start over gameplay mechanics), the fiery peaks are frozen/dormant, the Lake is a venomous swamp and the heavy, healthy forest is a dried and choked desert.

The Skyward Sword forested portion, I feel like the bottom right portion is supposed to be indicative of Lake Hylia and it would show pretty well if the thing was turned 45 degrees to the right.

So your maps line up, lets discuss what this means:
We know that at the time the three Goddesses had cursed Termina and commanded their giant animal spirits(think Valoo/Jabun-Jabun/ to not interfere or assist with Humans.

Giant Turtle:
>Now I can continue resting in peace. I too must abide the laws of ancient times and again merely watch from my deep slumber.
>But the evil that haunts this land has not completely vanished, Link.
>I shall depart after enjoying Lulu's voice a bit longer. I think the gods can permit that. Hyeh, hyeh, hyeh.

We also know that Skyward Sword is a bit odd in that they say the Goddesses created everything yet there are demons everywhere, and a great emphasis on making sure that Link is worthy of the sword given to him.
In context it puts Demise in a weird position of having a Holy Sword that looks a lot like the Master Sword.
Could there have been a Gerudo Prince who was chosen as Zelda's champion before and thats what led to the demon infestation and rebellion against the Goddesses?

Take a close look at this Clock Tower. You can clearly see there is a goddess holding a small blue ball over the Sun and Termina mostly focuses on the Goddess of Time, who we know to be Zelda.
The platform below has the sun on it as well, and below that is a door that looks similar to the giant worm bosses you fight in the desert. A possible reference to how the Ikanans & therefore Termina are all damned?

I wonder how well Twilight Princess lines up.

>> No.2330171

i've never felt the need to ask this but is there a way i can save a whole thread to my computer besides SSing? this whole thing is so GOAT i wanna keep it forever. Thank you /vr/

>> No.2330172

>>2330136
Don't forget Skull Kid was a well known part of the mythos in Terminan Lore and possibly belonged in that time.
He may have wandered out, or had simply been around since ancient times and had flown back to his own time with the power of Majora's Mask.

>> No.2330427
File: 70 KB, 499x374, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2330427

>>2310649

>OG moon all bugging and shit, can be interpreted as feeling sad, angry, in pain etc

>people interpret the moon as having the same feelings as the emotions described in the five stages of grieving

>denial, anger, depression etc

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

BRAVO NINTENDO

Also:

>tfw remake moon looks like its face has been stretched back because it's experiencing G-force upon re-entry

GET FUCKED NINTENDO

>> No.2330618

>>2300286
>and they are a rather underutilized item in Ocarina of Time
You make a lot of good points but tbh this is the thing that kills it. Most of the times I replay OoT the Bombchu alley "tutorial" is the only time I even use the item.

>> No.2330632

>>2322910
I really like that the game did this the way it did. It gives a nuance to the story that is subtle enough so that it will go over most kids' heads but still there to enjoy for those who think about it. All empires are built on bloodshed at the end of the day, pretending otherwise is just wishful thinking.

>> No.2330813

>>2300319

Gets a bit daft here tbh

>> No.2330848

>>2325410
Only on the fucking west coast.

>> No.2331116

>>2300319
Go to bed, Sigmund.

>> No.2331161

>>2300369
>>2330113
Wait, can someone explain this please? I'm stupid, sorry.

>> No.2331174

>>2308660
This is fucking amazing.

An alternative theory: the twisted corridors and rotations might be the ghosts way to restore the castle into it's former glory. They either failed or this is the way mortals see it in our dimension. The dead are messing with the castle to restore it in their dimension and it shows in our dimension through the place being distorted and twisted.

>> No.2331178

>>2308660
I LOVE this shit.

>> No.2331179

>>2309008
Just wanted to tell you that you are awesome. And other anon too!

>> No.2331196

>>2314636
those boobs in that top though

>> No.2331218

>>2325591
Oh can we please have a new thread for LA symbolism?

>> No.2331228
File: 20 KB, 480x360, hqdefault[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2331228

>>2331161
In OOT the master sword rests inside the temple of time. In the Child timeline Link returns the master sword there and leaves it

Hundreds of years later a new hero is born, this time in a farming area in the south. This is Twilight Princess

By now the temple of time has wasted away. After the events of Ocarina of Time at some point everybody left Hyrule castle town and rebuilt it in the area north of Hyrule field, bigger and better than the original.

The old Hyrule castle lay in ruins and the forest grew around it with vines and trees.

So in Twilight Princess you find among the deep brushwork of the forest an old dilapidated water fountain among some ruins, and the ruins of the temple of time are nearby. This makes me believe that this is the entire market area from OOT.

It's all speculation, however.

This is what made Twilight Princess one of my favorite Zeldas of all time. I played OOT for the first time when I was 8 or 9.

I grew older and when I played Twilight Princess on release, it was like going back to an old familiar place, to see how it had aged... it was beautiful

Sometimes I wonder how someone who didn't play OOT would see Twilight Princess because I understand my view may be a little skewed because of my nostalgia

As it stands, Twilight Princess is one of the greatest Zeldas of all time, at least to me

>> No.2331239
File: 55 KB, 1920x1080, Link_Awakening_Marin[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2331239

>>2331218
I don't know about symbolism, but in the end it really bothered me that I felt like waking up the windfish after killing the nightmares destroyed everyone living in Koholint island, and it really bothered me even at the tender age of 7

Even the nightmares make a remark telling you that waking up the windfish would destroy everything

The animal farm with the friendly animals, those poor kids playing ball, Marin and Tarin, the Witch, everyone you knew on the island would cease to exist because of your selfish yearning to leave.

Yes, I know it was all just a dream, but sometimes I wish Link had defeated the nightmares, then left the Windfish sleep eternally.

Those poor kids had no idea they were going to cease to exist, and poor Marin, all she wanted was to sit with you on the beach and watch the sun set.

>> No.2331247
File: 658 KB, 1280x1551, ooccoo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2331247

>>2331228
Ooh shit, I get it now. That's really interesting, I have to replay this. Speaking of TP, does anyone have any analyses for those temples? Lore-wise or symbolic? The game had some interesting places and characters like Snowpeak, Arbiter's Grounds and City in the Sky, are these in any way related to previous Zelda lore?

This has been a great thread, I love you all.

>> No.2331257

>>2309576
Hope you make that video, make sure to share here! >>2310389 I'd love to see that blog if you ever get around to it.

>> No.2331309

Miyamoto openly stated that the thought of cool locations with possibilities for puzzles and then threw together a story that would link them. Reading all this though, makes it seem a lot of thought must gone into the lore.

Or is just the unquenchable thirst of the fan community that makes us see extended lore possibilities in everything? Either way it's amazing.

>> No.2331335

>>2331239
but did they really exist

>> No.2331343

>>2331335
This brings up an interesting argument as well

What IS existing?

they reacted to questions Link asked them, they interacted with him, they seemed to have normal lives and they did things before Link arrived, and they were all seemingly snuffed when the Windfish woke up.

None of them were particularly worried about it, of course, because none of them really understood what waking up the Windfish would do... in fact some of them even supported Link in his quest.

I wonder what their reaction would have been if they understood that waking up the windfish would, maybe not kill them in any gory fashion, but stop them from existing...

I myself would do anything to stop Link, maybe even try to kill him myself or misguide him so he'd never win.

>> No.2331502

>>2331309
I think it's important to recognize that Miyamoto is just one piece of an incredibly complex puzzle. A lot of the stuff in this thread, particularly the dungeon analysis stuff would have been in the hands of writers, level designers, texture artists, etc., and Miyamoto wouldn't have been directly involved.

That said, a lot of it, particularly the more lore-heavy stuff is mostly rampant fan theory and speculation. But really, any kind of analysis is going to be subjective just due to the nature of it. Even artists don't always fully understand their own work sometimes.

>> No.2331689

Just wanted to post here. Been lurking this thread for a couple days.

I definitely love all the theories put forth in this thread. Some are obviously not intended but I do think you guys are on to something here.

>> No.2331692

>>2331343
They're all characters in a video game, none of them are real

>> No.2331728

>>2331692
I'm saying within the confines of the game smartass

>> No.2331908

>>2330172
Maybe when he went through the portal he went farther back than Link did. Could explain how Epona was already at the ranch and probably some other things

>> No.2331931
File: 3.17 MB, 3472x2490, Lovecraft world of dream.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2331931

>>2331343
Yeah, it makes one wonder if Koholint has any presence outside the confines of Link's mind. Is it more like Lovecraft's world of dream, where only a select few could visit, but the locations and people remain constant and are independent of the dreamer? Marin is arguably Link's subconscious interpretation of Zelda, and yet she turns into a seagull/angel in the real world. If the Wind Fish is real, how did it get trapped within Link's dream in the first place?

>> No.2331946

>>2331931
>If the Wind Fish is real, how did it get trapped within Link's dream in the first place?

It's the opposite. Link got trapped in the Wind Fish's dream.

Marin may be influenced by Link's memories of Zelda altering the dream, or the Wind Fish could have been aware of Princess Zelda just as he was of Mario, Princess Peach, Yoshi, and even Kirby. Also Wart, but he's from the world of dreams in the first place.

>> No.2332348

Hey guys.

I'm someone who's young enough to remember playing OoT on the wii virtual console, lmao.

And, I think it's babbys first sandbox game. I don't mean that in the bad way, I think it's an excellent game that manages to maintain the balance between a huge feeling world, memorable characters, and the ability to follow along the main quest without being bogged down by a million side quests, and the side quests actually feel good to complete instead of being chores to do.

Besides, the game is fucking adorable, ithe art has this weird fairy-tale mixed with ancient woodcuts feel that I find to work well. The dudes who made it wanted to make a fairy tale, and they succeeded. I feel a little bit disappointed in myself for shelving it because it wasn't 'the creepypasta game'. I'm gonna play over it again, would it be dumb if I posted here every so often detailing my little travels around? I've forgotten everything but the first dungeon, so I'm gonna go with no guides but my (lack of) intuition.

>> No.2332523

>>2332348
>Besides, the game is fucking adorable, ithe art has this weird fairy-tale mixed with ancient woodcuts feel that I find to work well. The dudes who made it wanted to make a fairy tale, and they succeeded.

Ocarina of Time reminds me a lot of The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings (the books, less so the movies) when it comes to tone, pacing and subject matter. I haven't seen a lot of works that hit that 'high fantasy' vibe as well as they do. I think there was probably a decent amount of inspiration taken from the LotR, actually. I could write more on this later if people are interested. Though I should probably actually finish reading the LotR trilogy before I write about comparisons. Currently on the last book, I highly recommend reading them if you like OoT. Watching the movies definitely isn't the same.

>I'm gonna play over it again, would it be dumb if I posted here every so often detailing my little travels around?

Go for it, I always like to see fresh perspectives on old games.

>> No.2332529

>>2332523
>>2332348
Both of you dudes should DEFINITELY contribute to this discussion. I am highly interested in the second anon's opinion on the relationship between LOTR and OOT. Being a huge fan of both the movies and the books (and Tolkien lore in general) I definitely get a shire/fellowship of the ring vibe from child's like part of the game.

And I'd also be interested in the fresh impressions of the first anon. Make sure to play without a guide or a walktrought to get a fresh experience.

I moederfokkin love this board.

>> No.2332570

>>2332529
As a /mu/ native and the first anon, I'm surprised by how high quality the discussion on this board is, ahah. If only I could talk about M&B here. I don't run PC emulators for the time being, so no screencaps, but I'll be certain to give some waxing details to the posts.

Any specific places you guys want me to go into specific detail while I'm there.

>> No.2332589

>>2332570
Personally I like going on adventures in the lost woods, lake hylia and the canion before the gerudo settlement. Kakarico village is for maximal comfyness, at night that place is dank.

>> No.2332610

Absolutely beautiful thread. I'm getting really sentimental, I love you all.

>> No.2332624

>>2331228
>at some point everybody left Hyrule castle town and rebuilt it in the area north of Hyrule field
isn't the original hyrule castle town in the north of Hyrule Field?

>> No.2332673

Anybody have any theories on the Giant's Knife and the Biggoron sword?

I think they're at least partially inspired by Hrunting in Beowulf. Or at least, it was felt like that as a kid to me. What with the Giant's Knife being hyped in the game, but breaking so easily. Just like with how Hrunting was presented but broke during the fight against Grendel's mother. And of course, it's only with the giant's sword that Beowulf finds is he able to kill her.

I keep wondering what the giant's sword is though.

The Biggoron Sword could itself also be Giant's sword. It's forged by giants and certainly is the genuine article, unlike the giant's knife. However, the Biggorn sword itself could be seen as like Hrunting because it is not able to finish off Ganon.

Actually, the Master Sword shares a little in common with the giant's sword since especially since what he have are Christianized versions, there's certainly the implication that the giant's sword is holy, given power by the high power that is the giants. The Master Sword is given power by godesses. They're both special, holy blades that the hero needs to kill the beast.

But yeah, sorry if that's just unhelpful rambling.

>> No.2332703

>>2332673
I honestly enjoy the concept that the Master Sword was actually a religious item, purely ceremonial in nature with a dull edge, until something came up to justify it's shedding of blood, something that called for a fight, and had to be responded to. It's as much of a character as Link, while the Biggoron sword is just.. a sword. It's the height of engineering, made by a race of people who know the heat of the forge, and it works as it's intended to. It cuts, and it cuts well, but it lacks the forces behind it that the Master Sword has.

>> No.2332708

Does anyone has ever stop to think what does exactly make the Hero of Time so important in the timeline?
I mean the Goddess of time in MM is the reason time travel works and probably every timeline Link creates merges with the others at the end; so she might be the reason time splits.
But why does the Goddess decided to help Link and why the timeline split because of Link and only Link?

>> No.2332721
File: 620 KB, 636x646, Map_of_Hyrule_(Twilight_Princess).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2332721

>>2332624
Supposedly some sort of natural disaster befell Hyrule and they had to relocate North around the same time OoT Link was still alive.

The temple of time towards the bottom left is where Hyrule Castle originally was.

To the immediate east are the Lost Woods which has creeped up quite a bit north.

The Desert is still roughly in the same place, just stretching far more north than the OoT map could show, yet that is a Hylian Facility posted at the North most part of the Desert that might've also predated OoT.

I don't know whats going on with Death Mountain or Kakariko , I assume Old Kakariko predated OoT also.
Zora's living upstream where all the water comes out from is par for the course.

>>2332708
Skyward Sword went into this. Zelda gives up her Goddess powers and lives among mortals in different incarnations, Link is there and is always her favorite.. Granted Skyward Swords story arc is kinda aloof and silly, it doesn't really make sense that Demise had a big Master Sword & that there was a huge emphasis on Link proving himself worthy unless Demise too was someone Zelda found encourable and handed him off a powerful Goddess Sword too. It also doesn't make sense that there are Demons roaming around the surface in the first place if the Goddesses created the world for Hylians, unless they terraformed over some other race.

>> No.2332727

The existence of this thread is proof that OOT tells a great story. It inspired us to put so much thought into the details and background. Although every one of these posts could be replied to with "this is all just speculation", that's the beauty of it: the story is only partially told, leaving the rest to us and our imaginations. This allows us to contribute, giving each player a more personal experience.

I always prefer stories which are left to speculation, rather than give us every gruesome detail.

>> No.2332732

>>2332721
I know that, but why is Hot Link the only one whose death creates a timeline?
No other Link creates different timelines.

>> No.2332745

>>2332732
It's just a retcon to explain how ALttP can follow OoT. Obviously the original intention was for Ganon being sealed into the Sacred Realm at the end of OoT to lead into ALttP's status quo of a Ganon trapped in the Dark World, but then they went and made two different sequels that were mutually inconsistent and so had to make some shit up about why there were three timelines.

>> No.2332748

>>2332721
>>2332732

This is precisely why I hate the timeline/Skyward Sword's story. It all feels like a sloppy retcon, and I don't think it actually adds anything of value to the franchise. I like the idea that each game is just a retelling of the same legend, with details changed to suit the teller/audience. A timeline and official explanation for why the same characters and settings recur cheapens it in my opinion.

But that's just my 2 cents.

>> No.2332760
File: 443 KB, 3696x2213, hyrule_ultima_by_mrjmzack-d4ndb41.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2332760

>>2332721
Heres a possible render of Twilight Princess/Ocarina of time map overlay.

>>2332732
Its possible they just adopted the theory after it became really popular.
Afterall SS Link time travels at least 4 times(possibly even 40 times if you count walking in and out of those time fields), TP Link time travels at least twice, OoT Link time travels at least five times, MM Link time travels countless times.

So chances are its not Time Traveling, itself, which causes the timeline Split.
Rather it might've been Zelda's accidental doing or Ganondorf's(a wish that possibly can't be undone).

Young Zelda is eager to send you off to go grab the Master Sword & make you a hero to defeat Ganondorf before he can do any real harm to the Kingdom. She didn't know that by grabbing the Master Sword that you would be locked in stasis, aged beyond your years just to be the right strength & size to wield the Master Sword.
Meanwhile Ganondorf walks right by you and makes a wish on the Triforce, its possible the wish itself makes an anchor in time that can't be undone.
At the end Zelda & the Sages are restored. Zelda berates herself for being so foolish and sends you back to live out your childhood(probably not knowing about Majora's Mask), its possible she caused the timeline split here by forcing you back before you pulled the Master Sword out at all.

>>2332748
I never liked the retelling theory. I like when you can see the connections between the games, but I also don't care for the split theory that much, its just a tool to figure out whats what.

Speaking of, another point to the Wish on the Triforce not being undone is that Ganondorf in Twilight Princess would've been executed after young Link & Zelda told on him(she does send Link back to the first time they met, so no triforce for child-timeline Ganon). So why it was a "Divine Prank" it somewhat revealed.

>> No.2332769
File: 336 KB, 1036x472, lttp-vs-oot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2332769

>>2332748
>Retelling of the same legend

ugh, one of those people.
I guess the Link's Awakening strategy guide agrees with you.

>> No.2332781
File: 2.17 MB, 6267x1642, z9eppjj6.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2332781

Heres some pretty basic speculation for the next game.

>> No.2332785
File: 794 KB, 1963x2269, oottpv4transparentstuff.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2332785

Alternative OoT/TP theory

>> No.2332804
File: 445 KB, 1024x685, tetraforce_theory__part_1_by_tetraforcelink-d649xel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2332804

A reminder to the thread: Even the poorly thought out, very unlikely theories have come true.
So maybe some of these aren't too far off the mark.

>> No.2333456

>>2332769
The forest doesn't line up though.
Neither do the Master Sword resting places.

If anything the Lost Woods would've been where the castle was, the LttP castle would've been in the field. I suppose the "Eastern Palace" and surrounding area could've been an escavated Lost Woods.

>> No.2333569

>>2330091
Fuck this music so much. It always made me feel like someone was sneaking up on me.

>> No.2333597

>>2333569
Fun fact: this was actually taken from a stock African tune. Go to 8:15 on the video here: http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/nintendo-officially-talks-about-the-infamous-ocarina-of-time-fire-temple-ch#.VSSWKhdrXdo

>> No.2333603

>>2333456
I'm fairly sure the master sword resting places fucking never line up. That thing moves all over the place.

>> No.2333620

>>2333603
In SS, OoT & TP they do.

In LttP & Link Between Worlds they do

And between Minish Cap & Four Sword they do.

All the other games transform the holding place in some weird ass way.

>> No.2333628

>>2333620
in TP the temple of time isn't on the same place as OOT.

>> No.2333683

>>2333628
Elaborate. Why aren't the two Time Temples the same?

Also check this map: >>2332760

>> No.2333763
File: 20 KB, 110x196, 110px-MM_Epona2[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2333763

>>2331908
Speaking of Epona, there's a Majora's Mask theory:

Epona died

How, you ask?

Well, you lose Epona, and the skull kid tells you that he got rid of that stupid horse because it wouldn't listen to him.

Now, consider this. Everyone in Hyrule has a Termina double that looks just like them. When you get to Cremia's Ranch you find Malon's Termina doubles and you find a horse. The horse looks just like Epona

Now, food for thought, what makes you think that's YOUR horse? What if the horse you find at Cremia's ranch is Epona's Termina double, and the skull kid killed the real Epona?

Romani never mentions "Oh, we found this horse" or "oh, someone sold us this horse" or anything like that.

>> No.2333765
File: 35 KB, 1294x258, impa.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2333765

>> No.2333796
File: 1.77 MB, 1326x2067, Skull_Kid[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2333796

I'd just like to make the observation that the Skull Kid/Majora's Mask combo in Majora's Mask was the GOAT Zelda villain.

While Ganon, Demise, Ghirahim, and Zant have a plan for world domination mostly consisting of just waiting around in a castle or fortress for Link to come in and fuck them up after he mows through their useless minions, it was good to finally see a half-competent villain that can actually get things done.

Sure, Vaati turned Zelda into stone, a good start, but then he went back to the old useless villain cliche; just waiting for Link to power up and come to fuck him up.

Skull Kid keeps it nice and simple: fuck it all I'm bringing the moon down and everybody dies.

It's wicked, simple, and effective.

He even manages to outsmart and outmaneuver Link when he steals his horse and Ocarina, then turns him into a literal scrub and goes on his merry moon-crashing way

Also he doesn't wait in his castle while Link goes out and collects Skulltulas and whatever weapon he needs to defeat him, this shit's happening NOW whether you're ready or not, when those 72 hours are up that's it you're fucked mr. hero of time. All the little health potions and fairies in a jar ain't gonna save you from a fucking moon crashing down and turning you and everybody you know into space dust

Skull Kid's plan was perfect, specially since Link didn't have nearly enough time to stop him;

Link just happens to get very lucky that he gets to repeat said 72 hours over and over because otherwise he'd be fucked, there's no way he could do everything needed to be done to defeat the skull kid and stop his plan in time.

>> No.2333964

>>2300304

It's actually a pretty common inference that the Kokiri are parallels to Japanese kodama / tree spirits. (Think the little white dudes in Princess Mononoke)

Still, I never really imagined the trees themselves to hold any particular meanings and any biblical references at the time were probably just to establish the feeling of mythos or really just emulating the idea of a long timeline and folklore within the Zeldaverse, which, nowadays has been pretty fleshed out and is a selling point for the series now that it has this "deep" timeline throughout all of the games.

As far back as OoT, I'd argue that it's just there for the aesthetic and not necessarily for biblical allusions.

If anything, Japanese artists love using the world tree/axis mundi/yggdrasil bit, so there's that to look into, especially since the forest is so spiritually connected and is the only other Poe littered place besides the haunted places like the desert and the well and graveyard.

>> No.2333993
File: 312 KB, 853x1280, zrizA8A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2333993

>>2333796
Well lets see.
Ganondorf sends a parasite to kill the Deku Tree, blocks off the Dodongo Cavern, its alluded that hes responsible for the odd behavior of Jabu Jabu(possibly sending the second parasite to torment the whale).
He then chases Zelda out of her castle, walks in after you and touches the TriForce thus establishing the Link/Ganon/Zelda cycle for all time.
After that he, for some reason, sends a Phantom of his likeness to the Forest Temple and then banishes said phantom to the "Space Between Dimensions" when it fails to kill Link.
He sets a dragon loose on the Gorons, freezes out the Zora, turn Castle Town into a wreck, puts Luigi in charge of the Mario farm.
I don't think he had any influence on the Shadow or Spirit temples, that was mostly the dead/his Mom messing with that shit.

Now his end game was that you would come to him anyway, so he didn't have to waste his time wandering around and chasing you with an army of the damned, though he could've probably if he wanted to. Then after he beats you he can make his wish to truly rule over everything.

Vaati petrifies Zelda and then spends half the game pretending to be the King so they'll go find him the "Light Force".
I don't think he took a very hands on approach to the whole event, he dropped some mooks on you once in awhile but I'm having trouble remembering if he personally caused any of the problems in the game aside from in the castle.
Or how he even came across the information that the Light Force was inside Zelda the entire time.
That being said if he didn't get his ass stomped like a bitch he would've been a full on God.

Skull Kid literally goes to the four corners of the world and personally fucks up every single thing he can. I mean, can't really fuck with that. But also, what was Skull Kid's end game? Wait til the world is fucked and laugh it off?

>> No.2333994

>>2333763
Yet she still responds to Epona's Song and in the end of the game Link rides off on Epona.

Now its possible this is partially true, but I'm not sure if theres enough proof that warrants death and not Epona just trotting off to the farm by habit.

>> No.2334074

>>2333994

If anything, it might be the same as how Link remembered Zelda's Song of Time. Epona had a deep attachment to the song Malon sang to her. If Link and Epona both died in the woods, it could make more sense that way.

>> No.2334109

>>2333993
>But also, what was Skull Kid's end game? Wait til the world is fucked and laugh it off?

The skull kid felt alone and rejected, Majora just wanted to watch the world burn

At some point Majora took over

>> No.2334140

>>2334109
>>2333993
>>2333796
Interesting fact: MM is the only LoZ game that's named after the villian.

>> No.2334163
File: 83 KB, 1321x157, HAMMERPENIS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2334163

>>2300319
I'm fucking dying of laughter
Preserved for posterity

>> No.2334692

>>2333993
I agree with this, the other villians did get things done. Vaati, in particular, had a pretty well thought out plan, which seemed to work well before Link interrupted.

Skull Kid is more interesting as a character though, less of the stereotypical "taking over the world" kind of villain. Instead it's a combination betwen a character suffering from a sad backstory and an destructive spirit with evil powers.

>> No.2335004
File: 9 KB, 42x60, Vaati_Reborn.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2335004

>>2334692
Vaati is one of my favorites.

Minish Cap just did a lot of things right despite being disconnected from a lot of the Hylian Lore.

>Interesting set of items/exploration
>Hidden things besides heart pieces/rupees
>A bunch of Satisfying Sword Upgrades
>All those awesome sword moves you can learn from various masters
>dat roll stab
>dem multi-use items
>dem item upgrades "remote controlled bombs"

Vaati was also cool for all the transformations he underwent
>lil dude
>human dude, dat purple swagger
>Ascended Human w/ demon eye
>giant demon ball
>Giant Demon God Ball that was probably the final form of the Nightmare in Link's Awakening

>> No.2335058

I just started playing Ocarina of Time for first time in my life, blind.
Gonna go to lost forest to find green-haired fuckbuddy.

>> No.2335137

>>2300292
Thanks lol i was playing oot yesterday it being my first time i was trying figure out what to do

>> No.2336615
File: 30 KB, 640x480, 01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2336615

Hey, I have a question.
Those golden spider tokens.
Is there a way to get them down when they are stuck like this? Am I missing something? Or doing it wrong?
I know spiders drop off when you roll into a tree. Does not seem to work with walls tho.
Im for the first time in Dodongo cave. Should I be concerned about this, or do I get a way to get them later in game? I don't want to dig throu solutions or FAQ to not spoil the game.
Any help?

>> No.2336617

>>2336615

You'll acquire a way to get them later in the game.

>> No.2336620

>>2336615
The item for the Sacred Stone of Water's dungeon is what would work.
Don't worry about it for now.

>> No.2336635

I love you /vr/. This is the only place on the Internet I think someone could play through OoT, ask for slight hints, and not have it spoiled to fuck.

>> No.2336646

>>2336635
Don't jinx it

>>2336615
If you don't mind me asking, what version are you playing? N64 or VC?

>> No.2336701 [SPOILER] 
File: 436 KB, 623x1251, 1428620714794.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2336701

>>2336635
People use words to talk to you
You can spend Rupees to buy things
The Deku Tree has an old man face
At one point in a Dungeon you will find a key
You can hold a sword in your hands
If you tilt the joystick when playing the Ocarina the tune changes
Sticks break when you swing them.

>> No.2336753
File: 139 KB, 800x200, 009.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2336753

>>2335058
>Gonna go to lost forest to find green-haired fuckbuddy.

>> No.2336885

>>2336646
>N64 or VC?
I'm emulating N64.
Please don't call the cops.

>> No.2337129

>>2336701
Goddamnit you asshole!!!

>> No.2337158

>>2336701
>That second to last one

Man that trick is really cool with the Guitar in majora's mask.

>> No.2337439

>>2333765
awesome

>> No.2338091

>>2300284


>>2333765
What if...
What if going into the Temple of Time as a kid and pulling the Master Sword is just Impa spamming Deku nuts at you for seven years?

This explains all the fancy lights when you do so.

>> No.2338258

>>2300284
This isn't OoT but still retro zelda and might generate discussion.

What happens to Link at the end of Link's Awakening? Best case scenario, Marin's a seagull now and the wind fish is woken, but link's still stranded at sea

>> No.2338457

>>2338258
We don't know, but based on the upbeat music and animation, he almost certainly reaches shore safely and returns to Hyrule.

>> No.2338464

>>2338457
From what I know, that's the last game in that Link's timeline. If he got back, the Wind Fish had to have helped out

>> No.2338465

>>2338258
>>2338457
>>2338464

>The Windfish helped him out.

Nope.

The significance of Seagulls is that there is land nearby.
Marin's last action was to guide you to land.

>> No.2338498
File: 12 KB, 240x160, 02.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2338498

>>2335004
>Interesting set of items/exploration
>Hidden things besides heart pieces/rupees
>A bunch of Satisfying Sword Upgrades
>All those awesome sword moves you can learn from various masters
>dat roll stab
>dem multi-use items
>dem item upgrades "remote controlled bombs"

THIS. Exploration actually felt worthwhile in this game, because you were rewarded. I mean, in addition to the usual items, there are Remote Bombs, Magic Boomerang and Light Arrows, all of which you might not even find on the first playthrough. Kinstones are fun and the make you want to pursue the sidequests. Looking up the area where something happened was always exciting because there could be anything from a golden enemy or a heart piece to a swordmaster in a cave teaching you new moves.

And if you get tired with all the kinstones, you can try to get all the miniatures in the gallery.

>> No.2338513

>>2338465
False. The seagulls were living on the Wind Fish's back. Link died of exposure later that day.

>> No.2338756

>>2338513
Haha good one like nintendo would ever kill off one of there characters

>> No.2339171 [SPOILER] 
File: 134 KB, 640x480, 1428730210449.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2339171

Ok, I've seen people making fun of Navi and constant 'Hey! Listen!' of her. However, you could easily ignore it. She is also useful in variety of other things.
Do you know who makes me absolutely livid?
<==This guy.
He triggers automatically and there is nothing you can do to bypass it. You have wait here and listen to his stupid theme while hes living his dream of being exposition machine.
Oh, sure! You can fastforward text with B, SOMETIMES! And he respawns EVERY TIME YOU LEAVE LOCATION!

Who is he anyway? He suddenly appears when you leave forest, knows your name, follows you around like some kind of stalker. It makes me think he is NOT actually on my side.

>> No.2339193
File: 352 KB, 634x475, arise.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2339193

Also, today I learned one very, very important lesson.
DO.NOT.ANGER.THE.CHICKENS!!!
What, did you thought THE KING rules Hyrule?
No, not even close.
Its the chicken collective.
They are our real masters.
The only reason we are living the way we are, is because THEY LET US!!!
They have us around just so we could take care of them.
Using chickens to slow your fall? It's all fun and giggles! But hurt one? They will tear flesh off your bones and shit all over what remains

>> No.2339248

>>2339171

I like it

>> No.2339597

>>2339171
>>2339193

Are you the guy playing OOT for the first time? Keep this up these are enjoyable.

>> No.2340148
File: 12 KB, 474x435, reaction 39.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2340148

>>2339171
>>2339193

This is adorable. It's like a little kid who started playing his parents' classic games, and then explained the basic mechanics to them as if this is ground-breaking info. Please continue

>> No.2340215

Ok, went to Zoras & learned to dive.
Gotten letter in a bottle, showed it to king and watched him rub his ass on the floor in about 30s cinematic in order to get to the big fish.
Fed him and...
Ooooughhh....
Those pulsating falls of flesh. First thought? System Shock 2 - Body of Many. Second thought? I wonder how long it is gonna take until I vomit all over my desk.
Met fishgirl. Letter wasn't from her. I had suspensions bout that. I mean, if you gotten swallowed, Its kind of hard to send a message out. There is ONE WAY out, but i don't wish it to anyone.
Aaaand I got stuck, for the first time. In a place where when you step on a switch, water rises, making you drop fishgirl and at the same time allowing you to proceed.
It took me solid 10min or so to get an idea to THROW her up the ledge and THEN rise water and follow her.
After some fun with switches and bobble popping, I got Boomerang. NICE!. Infinite uses & freeze effect - quite long one at that. Ability to easily target and fire boomerang is more than usefull. Also, I can pick drops with it - NOW I can get those golden spider tokens I couldn't reach earlier.
After some fun with tentacles I get the stone,
Almost.
MINI BOSS FIGHT!!!
I died few times. Im not proud of this. Sometimes it pays ti listen to Navi.
Afterwards, up and away to the real boss.
And i got stuck AGAIN. There's blue switch, opening the door when someone is on it. So what do I do? Being an idiot. I GO LOOK FOR A FUCKING FISHGIRL TO SIT HER ON A SWITCH LIKE BEFORE!
BUT SHE'S NOT THERE!!!
It took me something like half an hour of wandering to have an idea that 'Hey, maybe there is something other i can use?'. And lo and behold, there was. Not one, but TWO crates, in the same room, right behind me, all this time. I wanted to slam my head into a wall, that's how stupid I was feeling.
At least picked few fairies into my bottles for a boss.
Anyway, THE BOSS!!
It's big, organic, electrified jellyfish powered Roomba. Fairies were unneeded.

>> No.2340232

>>2340215
*was suspicious

Anyway, after some bullshit about marriage and shit, she gives me crystal. My cries that 'I never agreed to this!' and 'Who would even like you for your shitty personality!?' unheard.
But hey, At last i have all gems in my pocket!
Gotta go to Zelda and show them off!

>> No.2340459

And shit hit the fan.
I mean, seriously. This guy has read hair AND big nose. That's TWO reasons you would not trust him IRL.
Damn, this nose is big.
Anyway, we got title Ocarina of Time.
Where is the fairy one, I have no idea. Who cares it was given to us as memento from friend we had since, probably, ever. No, we have new shiny toy, so into the trash the old one goes!
I should go play newly learned Time Song in Time Temple, but fuck it. Im gonna hunt those spider tokens first. But for now its bed time.

>> No.2340461
File: 170 KB, 640x480, jew-worthynose.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2340461

>>2340459

>> No.2340512
File: 121 KB, 640x714, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2340512

>>2301704

Top fucking kek

>> No.2341554
File: 57 KB, 1549x571, TMC.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2341554

>>2338498
polite sage for off-topic

>> No.2342313

>>2300319
kek
nice pasta

>> No.2342575 [DELETED] 

>>2340459
At the finally I go do Dime Demples :D:D:D
Played Sonk of Dime bud Ganonds showed up fug :--------DDD
Ganonds stoles my bidch then stoles my jewbles -
...
>sacred jewbles
>jewbles
>jewbs

Illubimadi confirm
Branis fill of fug :D:D:D

>> No.2343054
File: 119 KB, 547x609, 1421022307792.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2343054

>>2341554
Why did you even post?
>gimmicky mechanics
You mean the literal items used in the game that are supposed to have functions that are interesting?

Get some good taste and come back

>> No.2343718

>>2339171
I honestly have no idea why Navi is hated while he is tolerated.
Easily the worst thing in the game.

>> No.2343725

>>2340215
Who was letter any way?
I've beaten the game 4 times and I still have no idea.

>> No.2343804

>>2343725
Pretty sure Ruto sent it from inside Jabu Jabu.

>> No.2344769

>>2343718
It's probably because he only shows up like 3 times in the entire game, while Navi is a constant annoyance who's there throughout the duration of the game.

Yeah, Kaepora Gaebora is orders of magnitude more obnoxious, but Navi is a lot more prominent

>> No.2344775

>>2344769
>only like 3 times

I can think of at least 7 times he appears, and that's before you even get to Jabu-Jabu

>> No.2345396

One of my favourite things in OoT is that the child dungeons (a tree, a cave,inside a fish) are all natural, while the adult dungeons are all man-made establishments. Same goes for the bosses too, even though it's made clear that Gannondorf is magically enhancing the bosses, they're all still natural, whereas in the adult dungeons they're his creations or other evil spirits/demons he has brought under his control.

I think it really emphasises the innocence of childhood and that shit has got completely out of hand after the timeskip.

>> No.2345630

>>2345396

Really interesting post. The game does seem to position childhood as a prelapsarian state of good, innocence and purity - I know other anons have pointed out similarities between LoZ and the Bible, but I suppose it's worth mentioning that Link grows up in a Hyrulian Eden, a pastoral, pre-industrial haven with the Kokiri boys and girls living in seeming harmony with the flora and fauna around them - a sort of, indigenous/ native analogy, the fairly common trope of the noble savage or primitive as a "child-like soul".

Eve eats the fruit of the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil and learns of all the evils in the world, including death - Link learns of his destiny, and his true place in history, from the Deku Tree, who serves as Link's introduction into death itself as the Kokiri are ageless children, eternally innocent - the choice of a Tree as an omniscient guardian of this bastion of childhood is surely no coincidence.

As you point out, Link faces only natural evils, not human evils, as a child - it seems more like the plight of man against nature, instead of the plight of man against man (although Ganondorf does engineer these natural disasters, so the binary isn't really as simple as I make out). One thing I did notice is that as a child, the Kokiri village is experienced as a playground - it has places to climb, crawl, jump, swim and explore, and one is almost completely safe from danger - the only danger that does exist is the boulder, which is itself experienced as a game of chase. The whole place has a very Neverland vibe.

(cont)

>> No.2345642

>>2345630

When you return as an adult, however, the former childhood haven, the site of so much nostalgic warmth and affection, is experienced as a much more sinister, dangerous place - not least because of the mad deku scrubs plaguing the village. The blonde girl is, I think, the most terrifying example of this - she is, like most children, lacking in true empathy, or any kind of awareness of the meaning of life and death. As such, the fate of those adults who wander into the Lost Woods - transformation into monsters- is something she treats with glee and amusement - it's just a game to her, the consequences something she doesn't understand.

What were once innocent games are experienced as the deadly contests that they in fact imitate - if anyone has encountered the skull-kids in the Lost Woods as an adult, they'll know what I'm talking about in terms of absolute pure fucking terror. Where once everything was pretend and make-believe, now all is real, coming with very real and actual consequences. The carpenter's son is another good example of this, a man suffering from depression and anxiety, he has fled to the Lost Woods, perhaps seeking some return to childhood security and innocence. The fact that his mission for you directs you to return to him the image of his former pet is I think indication that this is the case.

However, attempting to return to childhood innocence once introduced to reality is impossible - on one level, the Lost Woods transform the adults lost there into undead monsters to protect the children - on another level, perhaps the suggestion is that children that never grow up -are- monsters, and any adult attempting to regress to such a state thus regresses into a monster.

Sorta like, a Where the Wild Things Are kinda thing.

>> No.2346359
File: 96 KB, 752x1100, zelda hipster ruto.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2346359

>>2343725
>>2343804
Yeah, Ruto is a cookie-cutter tsundere: denying the obvious in an attempt to seem independent

>> No.2346381

>>2345642
>>2345630
I like this interpretation a lot.

>> No.2346492
File: 48 KB, 640x480, 1078077189.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2346492

Very good thread.

>> No.2346581

>>2344775
Yeah, but then he barely ever appears again.

>> No.2346586

>>2346581
Navi is only bad in the Deku Tree where she stops you to tell you how to climb, open doors, breathe

>> No.2346590

>>2346586
She always interrupts and tells you where to go next when you're off exploring and doing sidequests. It's her only truly annoying feature, but it's a doozy. Because she NEVER STOPS!

>> No.2346594

>>2346590
Her text box is only up for like a second if you hit B. Much more tolerable than an owl that likes to babble on and then ask either

>did you get all that?
>[no]
>yes

or
Would you like me to repeat that?
>[yes]
>no

>> No.2348961

>>2346590
I never found Navi to be that annoying. Most of the time she had someting useful to say (tips about bosses, what direction to go).

>> No.2349031

>>2346594
also
>dat condescending music

>> No.2349038

>>2345630
>Saria's ocarina is the forbidden fruit

>> No.2349145

>>2349038
No, Saria is the forbidden fruit Link "eats" before being expell from the Garden of Eden

>> No.2349668
File: 85 KB, 793x960, 1421138302337.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2349668

>>2349038
>>2349145

Thats retarded. You're really reaching for those biblical references.
Why don't you start with how Ganondorf is a giant jewish pig demon that floats over an eartlhy manifest Hellscape, perverting the happy White Europa/Hylian utopia with his subversive Religion based on hatred?

>> No.2350656

Someone wanna analyze Navi "not being able to help you" during the final boss fight?

>> No.2350661

All this religion bullshit and no one is talking about Plato's little discussed religious beliefs and the hylian theoretical world? The world of pure forms? Where perfect shit like triangles come from?

>> No.2350673

>>2350656
I'm not good at this analysis, but I'll take a crack at it.
Throughout the entire game, Navi's always been there to help you with enemies, even if she isn't always very helpful. At the very least, she helps you fight the enemies by keeping them in your sight at all times during combat. In some ways, she is almost like a second set of eyes for Link, and could very well be the brains of the duo, despite her Captain Obvious remarks at times.

Once you face Ganondorf, the Triforce of Power has made him so strong that he is able to affect even Navi, who until now has been unaffected by every enemy in the game, even pointing out invisible enemies at times by flying over them. This power is so overwhelming and nothing like anything the duo have met until now that she cannot even get close to him to help you. In a sense, Ganondorf has taken away one of Link's senses. Navi could also very well be scared off by the Triforce's power, as Ganondorf is most likely stronger than every other enemy Link has fought combined, and Link is the one with the Triforce of Courage, not Navi. Once you get to the real final battle, Navi has overcome her nerves, and enters the battle to help you once again.
If anybody else wants to take a shot at this, feel free.

>> No.2350759

>>2332760
>>2332769
>>2332785
I think trying to directly overlay the maps is not a great exercise. I'm with the "all different legends camp", mostly because scale is always wonky in a videogame. Area sizes are made to fit hardware limitations, gameplay constraints, or the like. Hyrule field is set up to "suggest" a very vast area, but the actual size of it is not very big if you were to scale it up to a real world. The best we can take away is that there is some rough correspondences between the world maps from game to game, but the actual portrayal is an abstraction made to suit the game.

>> No.2350858

>>2350661
Stop complaining and talk about that shit then.

>> No.2350924

>>2350759
I always thought the same. Like many retro RPGs, the world map is just a representation of a giant mass of land. And I'm really glad that they will give us a giant worldmap in the next zelda U

>> No.2350948

Hi, Anon playing it first time here.
I'm on water temple, facing dark version of my very one self.
It's hard as hell, mainly because I have no idea what I'm doing.
Navi tips are 'conquer yourself' and 'keep moving', but how long can one run in circles?
Until you die, apparently!
I tried following;
>swordfight
Even if i menage sneak somehow lucky shot, he respawns right away. When you thrust he hops onto your blade and cuts. He dodges jump attack and counters with his own. The magic spin attack is hit or miss. I die.
>fire dome spell
Hits every time and he can't counter it. I depleted my magic bar (extended) and he keept respawning. I die.
>bow
Miss.
>hammer
Block.
>ocarina
Tried all songs except of 3 dungeonwarping ones.

Did not try;
>bombs (should have tried that sooner)
>grapple (Yeah! Lets get close to him! That will help! It actually might it it lands & stun him long enough)
>flashbang (might work but not counting on it)
He does not attack until you get close or aggro him. Maybe something with that?


Its first time in game I repeatedly go somewhere and die. I had SOME problems with getting to the chest containing hammer in Fire Temple. I kept falling down from the ledge 2 levels down. First and probably last time Wind magic was useful. No idea why it was so difficult. Maybe its my controller. I DID notice that analog stick acts as analog in term of running at certain speed in a direction, but not really allows you to have smooth 360 movement. What I mean to say is I am able to slowly crawl/walk/run but only in 8 D-pad directions and I have no idea Whats at fault here. I actually had to use save-states after failing to get that hammer chest for an hour. Im displeased about this, but it was either that, or possibly not finishing the game at all (I have issues with completing half a game and loosing interest).

>> No.2350951

>>2350948
Anyway, Dark Link!
I tried to find in-game hints, like something about reflections in the water in the room you fight him, but found nothing. Room's cool tho! I actually went 'what the fcuk?' when I entered it the first time.
The trope of facing oneself in combat to progress is not uncommon, especially when main character is on some kind of grand quest of some kind.
Its usually solved by doing something INSTEAD OF FIGHTING right on. And for good reason! If you fight against perfect clone of yourself, if you not suddenly get better than you were a second ago, you will lose or draw at best, which is still loosing.
So that makes me think that there should be an easy way to win this fight, with smarts and method instead of swinging sword left right and center. Gotta look into this

I'm gonna go and try some things I have not tried yet and come to report back the results. If no progress will be made, Im gonna ask for a hint. NOT SOLUTION mind you, just a hint. OoT so far is great game I enjoy and I want to beat it on my own to have as much genuine experience with it as possible. There is no pleasure with victory given to you on a platter. If I need help I want barely enough to get by. So, hints, not solutions, if I need them.

See you in a hour or two.

>> No.2351370

>>2301513
have you not figured that it's a western story told by the japanese? I mean, a fairy (in green) learns he's the great hero of legend by taking the sword from the stone, which only he could do (hello arthurian legend). This sword is decidedly not japanese and closely resembles a shorter version of a claymore (notably from scotland). Theres also the fact that the hero is aryan as fuck, how many naturally blond-haired, blue eyed japanese people are there?

>> No.2351906

>>2350948
>>2350951
I honestly can't think of a non-spoilery hint to give you.
If you really have to you can cheese him with dins fire but there's a much simpler way.

>> No.2351965

>>2350951
Navi might have some advice.

>> No.2352706

Ok guys, Anon playing here, I'm out of ideas.
The way I'm supposed to win against Dark Link is probably pretty obvious, but I tried and tried many different things and solution still eludes me.
If hes suposed to be my dark self, and we assume he has sa much health as I, then thats 11 hearts.
If we assume that every time he goes down and respawns he looses one heart, then having 8 charges of fire spell i would to kill him 3 more times. I even managed to stun him with flashbang and he went down after two sword swings.
If he has 11 hearts as I do, I would be able to beat him this way if I stock up on fairies beforehand.


Now question to you anons:
>Am I on right track? Does he have as much health as you do hearth containers?
That would be kinda punishing for player for getting as much max health as possible.
And second one;
>Is there a way to replenish your magic?
I mean like poe or fairy in a bottle. If so, what it is?

>> No.2352717

>>2352706
You are correct, Dark Link has as much health as you do. He is one of the most difficult enemies in the game, trying various strategies is a good idea.

There is an item that can replenish magic in Kakariko.

>> No.2352727

>>2352706
I'll give you another hint: Dark Link starts out very transparent, and slowly grows more opaque as he loses health. He also becomes more aggressive, and its better to not stare at him too much at that point.

>> No.2352732

>>2352717
Aaaaah!
Of course! Magic potion! No surprise I forgot about it - there never before was a situation it would be useful for me.

>The more health you have the more health he has.
That's a dick move.

Anyway, gonna burn this fucker to crisp!
>inb4 second form
Hopefully not.

>> No.2352752

Ok, Dark Link is down for good and I've got grapple expansion. Not surprised about that, there were a few places i could not get to because of short chain range.

>>2352727
I actually did not notice it. Becoming aggressive, yes, but not change in transparency. Now I also noticed that he starts attacking when fully opaque.
Also, funny thing. Link has his reflection when entering a room and walking around for a bit, but when Dark Link spawns on the little tree island, reflection is gone. None of you have a reflection during that fight. I really like little things like this.

Damn, I'm not sure I would have patience to figure out how to beat him on my own. Thanks guys. If the rest of mini/bosses gonna be that tricky, I'm gonna have trouble beating this.
Still, OoT, great game so far.

What are other viable methods of beating Dark Lind other than scumming fire spell as I did?

>> No.2352776

>>2352752
I won't go into too much detail about another way (probably the easiest way) to beat him, but there's a lengthy side quest you can do for a certain item. the item is a bit overpowered, but I've spoilered a vague hint if you want to get the quest started.

I'm assuming you have Epona. Have you gotten Malon's fat dad back to the ranch yet? If not, remember how you woke him up as a kid, and think about who might be able to help you do that again.

>> No.2353681
File: 113 KB, 500x375, legend of zelda ocarina of time the end.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2353681

>>2352717
Now that I think about it, Dark Link was the hardest enemy in the entire game, at least for me. Everyone else can be handled pretty easily with Z-targeting

>> No.2353705

>>2353681
I disagree. The chickens are the hardest enemy in the game.

>> No.2353761

>>2353681
Oddly enough, the first time I played through I had absolutely no problem with Dark Link. I have no idea why, since every time since he's been a tough fight. I must have accidentally stumbled into a perfect strategy through sheer blind luck.

>> No.2353843

>>2353681
Iron Knuckle, Ganonndorf and Dark Link were the only real fights in the game.

Iron Knuckle is unique in that he has an overhead attack that will instant-kill whatever he chops.

While playing the 3DS version I had gotten all 20 hearts and the 50% defense buff the final Great Fairy gives you. I decided to allow Gannon to hit me with his beamspam attack thinking it would do almost nothing, instead it reduced me down from 100% health to about 70% health. Granted other than somehow letting this hit you its absolutely not a threat at all if you spin at it.

>> No.2354192

>>2352752
The Megaton can be used against Dark Link, but you have to have good timing.

The easiest way to beat Dark Link is to fight him with Master Sword, but WITHOUT Z-targeting him. "Don't stare at him too much" was an oblique reference to this.

>> No.2354241

>>2354192
Eh. I found that the easiest way to defeat nigga link is to just spam Din's fire till the negro drops.

>> No.2356439
File: 96 KB, 800x500, u_wot_m8_link.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2356439

>>2354192
>>2354241
Why not using the Biggoron Sword?

>inb4 cheating

Considering the endless fetch quests to get that damn thing makes up for it imho. I'd always get it as early as possible.
Oh I remember something...

>be around 8, playing OoT for the first time (on GC as emulation on the collector's edition)
>play it with brother (9), good and fun times
>die a lot, but ultimately progress, also get biggoron sword
>beat the fuck out of every living thing with that mo-fu
>battle ganondorf
>try hard mode, finally battle ganon
>can't beat him, try again at least 10 times, he takes endless hits
>use master sword out of desperation
>realize you need to do the last hit with that
>mfw

>> No.2356871

Just finished master quest on my 3ds it was pretty fantastic.

>> No.2356893

>>2356871
Now try it with three hearts only

>> No.2356895

>>2354192
>"Don't stare at him too much"
Navi only said that when fighting Poes. "If you stare at it with Z-Targeting, it'll disappear."

>> No.2357114

So does anyone have the link for the actual previous thread?

>> No.2357134
File: 511 KB, 832x1023, link.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2357134

>>2357114

>> No.2358345

The things that get me when playing is when characters when you are adult link mention you as young link but don't recognise you

Examples being the guy in the windmill and the kokiri kids

You almost want to say here I am the ki you are talking about is me

>> No.2358358

>>2358345
True that.

>> No.2359002

>>2357114
"Ask and you shall receive. Knock and the door shall be opened unto you."

https://archive.moe/vr/thread/2057658/#2061739

>> No.2359083

>>2300284
OOT is one of my least favorite zelda games. I mean it's not a bad game, I just see it as too much of a zelda game to be a zelda game. I'll be honest I think the puzzle are pretty bad, and the bosses need more variety.

tl;dr
I think OOT is too much of a zelda game to be a zelda game, so it's one of my least favorites..
but everyone hates skyward sword i think it's just because ofbomb-bowling

>> No.2359145

>>2359083

I love Skyward Sword but dislike the bomb bowling

>> No.2359152

>>2354192
Actually there's an even easier way to beat him. Use diagonal slashes. Remember that your sword slash changes depending on which side you're holding the analog stick. If you target and hold right, you'll do a diagonal left-to-right swipe. Dark Link has trouble dealing with such an uncomfortable angle and will easily get hit by it. It's also a lot more consistent doing it this way than trying to get those angles by not targeting.

>> No.2359989

>>2359083
>too much of a Zelda game to be a Zelda game
What does that even mean.

>> No.2361873

>>2359083
Odd criticism. I absolutely love OoT /because/ it captures everything the series is about, and does it to perfection. There has been written a lot about this game, and it became the blueprint for most action-rpgs since. Whereas before games were mostly developed by programmers and thus often felt "uneven" gameplay wise (as they didn't know much about how to design a game), in OoT a lot of thought was put in the very specific way everything is set up, and this makes the whole experience so compelling.

Reducing the game (or any LoZ game) to the puzzles and bosses is a bit unfair. First of all it's amazing how flawless the devs transitioned to the 3D-enviroment to expand the puzzles and make new ones entirely (simply by using the vertical dimension to a great extend). For a player back then it was highly original and only very few puzzles were known "classics", like the "light-all-torches".

And how do the bosses lack in variety? I couldn't choose two boss fights that are in any way similar.

>> No.2361923

>>2328629
>If all of the above is true, and the water temple therefore represents femininity and the female form, a temple whose guardian is a strong, independent woman who makes it clear on several occasions she don't need no Link - if all this is true, what does this mean for Morpha?

Morpha is formless, a blob that can use water to take on any shape. All Morpha is is give. Morpha attempts to use its formlessness to strangle Link, whereas Link uses phallic objects, the longshot and sword, to destroy Morpha. Perhaps it's a metaphor for male objectivity overcoming female solipsism. Or technology (the male Apollonian aspect) overcomes nature (the female Dionysian aspect). Morpha also kidnaps Ruto who, although exhibits some "independent" personality traits, is also a very feminine princess character who wants to marry Link. When Link finally saves her from Morpha, Ruto backs off because she believes Link really wants to marry Zelda. Not sure exactly what to make of that.

>> No.2362362

>>2359989
It tried so hard to be what it should have been.

>>2361873
A lot of waiting is what I mean by lack variety.

>> No.2363698

>>2315840
Fun facts: No one likes the Owl, ever. And Navi was actually put in the game because this was one of the first 3d adventure games and she is literally a guide for the player and they wanted people to know what to do, this may seem like lame handholding but back then this game was revolutionary and that was just how they decided to do it

>> No.2363749

>>2332804
Also....Tetra/Zelda from WW...fuck.

>> No.2363765

>>2338091
And yet she couldnt stop ganondorf from taking the triforce? Useless cunt.

>> No.2363789

>>2352706
Ill give you a hint you will get reading this thread: Hit him with your penis. A lot.

>> No.2364060

>>2359083
What an odd use of tl;dr

>> No.2364750

I NEVER WANT THIS THREAD TO END

>> No.2364872

>>2300329
I'm surprised the mirror shield isn't mentioned. Reflections are also a big deal in this temple, the mirror shield helps you activate images of the sun, reveal the final stage of the temple, and finally defeat the sisters. I can think of two possible interpretations of this: First, by reflecting light you become noticed, so the suns and the sculpture recognize you (as the Gerudo will eventually do). On the other hand, when the sisters fuse you defeat them by absorbing their power, kind of becoming like them. Becoming like your enemy in order to defeat him. Let me know what do you think about this.

>> No.2365552

>>2359002
Thank you sir!

>> No.2366509

>>2358345
It really puts the concept of hero into perspective. Link gave his life for his cause, sacrificing all those years that could have been spent with the people he's trying to save. It's almost like he doesn't reveal his identity because he already knows he doesn't belong with them anymore.

>> No.2366621 [DELETED] 

>>2352752
>What are other viable methods of beating Dark Lind other than scumming fire spell as I did?

Git gud

Seriously. Run around and hit him with your sword more than he hits you.

>> No.2366891
File: 81 KB, 289x333, Mirror_Shield_(Ocarina_of_Time).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2366891

>>2364872
You also use the mirror shield (which originally had a moon on it) to control sunlight if you want to go further with the duality thing.

>> No.2366905

>>2339193
What are you talking about? There ain't no chickens in Hyrule. Unless you're talking about the Cucco.

>> No.2367880

remember that creepy as hell chanting that was in the forest temple?

https://soundcloud.com/bonerschantz/african-098-b

>> No.2368312

>>2364872
>>2366891

Those are both really good points, and looking back I really left a lot of cool stuff out of the spirit temple writeup.

In my defense, I didn't get to that one until like 4 a.m. and the only temple I'd actually written a full writeup for before that thread was the Forest Temple. I do want to go back and clean them all up at some point.

>> No.2368343

Forgive me, a lowly gaming peasant and plebeian greenhorn, for asking but is it just me but there are barely any Zelda threads on /v/ and /vr/? Also I never really encountered Zelda General thread on /vg/. I'm getting a feel like I'm missing something important…

>> No.2368363

>>2368343
Zelda threads on /v/ tend to be... divisive, to say the least. I've seen some interesting discussion from time to time, but mostly it's just a ton of trolling, shitposting, arguing over lore and the Hyrule Historia, complaining that Aonuma/Iwata are running the franchise into the ground, etc.

>> No.2369446

>>2368363
>I've seen some interesting discussion from time to time, but mostly it's just a ton of trolling, shitposting, arguing

Sounds par the course for /v/.

>>2368343
Zelda threads aren't super common on either board for opposite reasons. /v/ can't talk about anything that came out more than six months ago. On /vr/ it's hard to get an actual discussion going because the games have been discussed so much already, most of the time threads are just opinions everyone has already heard. This thread is proof that there's still more for people to say about the game, but usually when someone starts a thread they just say "Zelda thread" or "Let's have a LttP thread". That's why I actually don't mind the "I just started X game, tell me what I'm in for" threads, they actually prompt discussion by getting people to talk about the game.

>> No.2370374

>>2350948
biggeron sword

>> No.2372542

>>2300329
But you haven't done Gannon's Castle

>> No.2373493
File: 44 KB, 1517x188, Gerudos.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2373493

Postin' some screencapped posts for the sake of life in this thread

>> No.2374261

>>2333597
Fun fact: the youtube link leads to the FOREST temple theme, not the fire temple theme :^)

>> No.2375446

>>2314618
>Finally, someone who gets it. I thought I was the only one who took one look at MM3D and said "That's it, I'm out Nintendo. You can fuck around with Mario all you like, you can be ham-handed with 10 WW re-releases, but now you have fucked with a piece of my childhood in the most disrespectful and clueless manner possible. Go rot in the lime-pit with Sega, we're through.".
Holy shit this post is embarrassing

>muh childhood

>> No.2376317
File: 39 KB, 199x283, link.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2376317

>>2366891
>Moonlight is merely the reflection of the sun's rays off of the satellite's surface