/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2269943]

Had godly ost, great game play and graphics, the only flaw this game had was its vast amount of characters which made story lacking, even though main plot points were interesting. Why hate?

[Anonymous No.2269963]

People expected a game like Chrono Trigger and were mad that it wasn't really like it and not a direct sequel. Which was understandable I guess at the time. Do people still hate it? I haven't heard a negative opinion about it in a really long time

[Anonymous No.2269964]

>>2269943
It's story is convulted as all hell.
Battle system is pretty lackluster.

[Anonymous No.2269975]

>>2269963
It's not so much that it isn't a "direct sequel" that bothers me, it's the fact that Cross doesn't even seem to take place in the same universe.

[Anonymous No.2269976]

>>2269943
I think it really gets most of it's hate from not being a direct sequel. I didn't mind the boatload of characters, I just picked the couple that I liked and stuck with them.

>>2269964
Personally I loved the battle system.

[Anonymous No.2270047]

>>2269943
Because it not a carbon copy of Chrono Trigger.

[Anonymous No.2270076]

>>2269975
except it does

[Anonymous No.2270079]

>>2270076
the change from toriyama sci fi to tropical island setting made it seem like it didn't

[Anonymous No.2270127]

People expected Chrono Trigger 2 and got a "everyone you know is dead" story.

[Anonymous No.2270135]

>>2270076
The two worlds have literally nothing in common except for a couple of people and locations from Trigger being offhandedly mentioned.

[Anonymous No.2270153]

Can we just skip ahead to the part where OP starts ranting that Chrono Trigger had a bland soundtrack and forgettable characters?

[Anonymous No.2270156]

fanboys mostly. it does have a weird magic system, though, which I've never cared for. everything else makes up for it tho

[Anonymous No.2270223]

>>2270076
>>2269975
>>2270135
Its the same world, but different dimensions.

[Anonymous No.2270345]

Best girl.

[Anonymous No.2270442]

>>2270223
Of course it is.
Alternate dimensions are the laziest writing trope ever. Just look at Marvel

[Anonymous No.2270447]

>>2269976
fuck yeah, norris was a regular for me too

[Anonymous No.2270449]

>>2270153
theres people that think that?

[Anonymous No.2270503]

>>2270223
>>2269975
>>2270135
>>2270442
Are we all just going to ignore the fact that Chrono Cross takes place in the exact same dimension as Chrono Trigger does? Hell, Another World is Chrono Trigger's good future and Home World is Chrono Trigger's bad future, so technically EVERY single possibility seen on Trigger is represented in Cross.

Also
>direct sequel
Reptites, Schala, Masamune, Guardia, Mother Brain, and Lavos are all just not "referenced", but developed and their stories DIRECTLY continue from that in Trigger.

The only reason people think Cross isn't a "direct sequel" or doesn't take place in the "same universe" is because the story/setting progression from CT to CC isn't linear due to time travel, and many players are too lazy to actually pay attention to the game.

And no this isn't a "it's 2 deep 4 u" thing, you don't have to "get" Cross. The way its world and story follows Trigger is expounded at length several times and it's pretty easy to understand if you read what's there.

>>2269943
The main reason is that its style was too different from Trigger. A less popular (and much more valid) reason is that the plot pacing was atrocious and it was too Evangelion/Xenogears-esque in scope, which is true. However unlike Xenogears Cross didn't have half an hour of chair narration about the cool things your characters do but you don't get to play as.

[Anonymous No.2270518]

>>2270345
Yeah right.

[Anonymous No.2270523]

>>2270518
>Pip
>girl
Uh...

[Anonymous No.2270559]

>>2270523
Lololol i troll u!
I forgot :(
Also, harle is best girl, kid is basic bitch.

[Anonymous No.2270774]

if it was hated it wouldn't have a thread about active almost all the time

[Anonymous No.2270807]

>>2270503
I have never said Chrono Cross isn't a direct sequel, however, you aren't given any indication it is a direct sequel until what, the Dead Sea? Thats like nearly halfway through the game.

All of my criticisms of the story in Chrono Cross isn't the plot itself, or that it basically invalidated everything that happened in Trigger, I'm ok with it.

I hate how its presented. Its presented using bait and switches and huge blocks of exposition instead of actually having a coherent plot that flows seamlessly like Triggers did. You can argue that Triggers plot was simple and that it could've used some complexity but in the context of the game the simple and easy to follow plot actually benefits it because the pacing is fucking excellent. You're always going from A-B with a clearly defined purpose (Got thrown into the future? We'd better find a way back. Need to repair this sword and the only way to is to find some ancient stone? Lets check the distant past). Which while Chrono Cross does usually give you a clearly defined purpose it makes that purpose irrelevant immediately after because you're just thrown off onto another quest thats almost seemingly a tangent.

I also highly dislike the element system, and its severe lack of explanation. You can hate Junction in FF8, but it did have a fairly robust tutorial to how it worked.

[Anonymous No.2270813]

>>2270774
I don't see what that has to do with anything.

[Anonymous No.2270849]

>>2270807
>however, you aren't given any indication it is a direct sequel until what, the Dead Sea? Thats like nearly halfway through the game.
Within five minutes of the game you find Heckran bones, hear about Porre and meet Toma's descendant. Within an hour or two the main antagonist calls you THE CHRONO TRIGGER (in all caps). A couple more hours in you get confirmation that Kid's often mentioned background has to do with Lucca.

You find out the link explicitly halfway through the game, yes, but how is this bad or questionable? It's more than obvious that the writers intented to hide the link between the games for a while and unravel it very slowly, which is why the world and initial stories seem so alien to CT.

>or that it basically invalidated everything that happened in Trigger
How did it do this? EVERY single area, event and conflicto in Chrono Cross stems directly from what happened in Trigger. One of the ultimates goal of the game is to prevent the future achieved in Trigger from disappearing.

> Its presented using bait and switches and huge blocks of exposition instead of actually having a coherent plot that flows seamlessly like Triggers did
Trigger had the advantage of time travel. Chrono Cross does suffer from telling and not showing, its pacing is off. I agree with this. But the plot is coherent, far tighter than Trigger's even, when it comes to internal logic. The problem is that the way it's told makes it tiresome to read.

>I also highly dislike the element system, and its severe lack of explanation.
It's pretty intuitive if you ask me. I know this is subjective, but I liked this system FAR more than CT's ATB. Both games are really easy, but CT's system is boring because of the waiting, you still have to go through forced battles whenever the game feels like it, and positions are seldom used. CC seldom uses the field system, but everything else feels more balanced and customizable. Even though it still ends up being really really easy.

[Anonymous No.2270907]

>>2270849
>The Chrono Trigger
Is a total namedrop to let everyone know that this is indeed a sequel to Chrono Trigger. It has no context to -anything- that had happened up to that point.

Again its so text and exposition heavy that is -very- easy to forget or misread something. Heckran bones? How do you know that the heckran isn't just another name drop? Porre could just be another throwback. Its not clear whether these are just references to CT or talking about being in the same universe. Again, its not until about halfway when you have confirmation that the world is indeed the same. Sometimes you need to be explicit.

>Kid
Never used her in any capacity outside of the mandatory stuff. Did not give a shit about her throughout the game and as such I miss some critical elements. Its not my fault that I missed out on exposition because I wasn't nut hugging Kid the entire game.

[Anonymous No.2270945]

>>2270907
>Its not clear whether these are just references to CT or talking about being in the same universe
You're told and shown repeteadly during the first hours of the game about Porre invading El Nido. Within five minutes of gameplay you can interact with Porre soldiers. The main antagonist is described as being from Porre. You'd have to be pretty daft to think "lol it's just a reference" when the box art says this is a sequel to Chrono Trigger.

You'd have to be extremely daft to think that CC takes place in another universe when the timeline mechanics are explained over and over throughout the game. Not to mention that every other major antagonist is a CT reskin in some form. This is not related to you personally, just talking about all the other people in this thread.

>Never used her in any capacity outside of the mandatory stuff.
Neat, because it's during the mandatory stuff that she talks about Lucca.

>Did not give a shit about
This seems to be the problem with you. It's a game with a lot of text. Your main claim is that "it's easy to forget/misread". If the game repeats and shows over and over the existence of Porre, how is it hard to forget or "misread"?

>Sometimes you need to be explicit
Which is why the game is explicit from the halfway point on. What's so bad about keeping this in an incresingly badly concealed state of mystery? Would you rather just start the game with a map showing El Nido in a sea west of Porre and every other character hamfistedly mentioning Guardia? The very existence of El Nido is linked to Crono's deeds, is a huge plot twist, and is clearly that this is why the writers chose to keep it a bit mysterious.

Also I forgot to mention how you meet Balthasar an hour into the game.

I get that the STORY pacing is bad, but to claim that you dismissing constant CT mentions is somehow the game's fault is disingenuous. Not to mention that keeping the sequel links faint until a big plot twist is far from a fault.

[Anonymous No.2270963]

>>2270945
>>2270849
Jesus, this is a whole new level of being defensive.

[Anonymous No.2270973]

>>2270963
Game defenders are always more vocal then criticisers.

They will always try to tear down arguments against their favorite games, in the same way a white knight will defend the fair camgirls honor. Its sad really.

[Anonymous No.2271063]

>>2270807
No offense man but I played and beat this game when I was 12 and figured the element system out by myself.

[Anonymous No.2271067]

>>2271063
So did I. But I had no idea you could use multi-techs until I replayed it like 3 years ago.

[Anonymous No.2271124]

I admit, back in the day, I didn't like it because it took a shit on Chrono Trigger.

However, even looking back at it as a stand alone game, I think it's subpar in everything except the awesome soundtrack and decent enough graphics. The story made zero sense, the characters were awful, the localisation(this probably isn't the game's fault in itself but the people in charge of making it to western audiences, but still) makes my eyes bleed with the way they forced some idiotic accents in, the dialogue is dumb, even for jrpg standards.

I have to mention the characters again, since in the sea of them, there's like five that have any sort of revelance to the story and actual dialogue worth a shit, and out of those five, literally none of them are important(aside from Kid I guess) after their moment in the sun passes.

The battle system was kind of interesting, I guess, but that's it. I can't find it in myself to give this game more than a five out of ten, even if I liked the designs of some characters(Fargo, Grobyc, Guile, that kung fu chick from the fishing village, even the hippie doctor was okay).

I don't hate this game. As far as games go, it was perfectly average. So, I guess it was more of a disappoitnment than anaything else because I expected much more.

[Anonymous No.2271240]

>>2270503
>unlike Xenogears Cross didn't have half an hour of chair narration
Hoho, it's WAY more than half an hour, Anon-kun...

[Anonymous No.2271245]

So, it's been a while since I played, but Harle and Kid are the same, right?

[Anonymous No.2271247]

>>2271245
No, one is a bitch and the other isn't.

[Anonymous No.2271248]

Why do people shit on CC for having lots of characters and yet I never see this criticism leveled at, say, Suikoden?

[Anonymous No.2271252]

>>2271245
No, that's wrong.
kid is schala, harle is the final dragon

[Anonymous No.2271264]

>triggerniggers

[Anonymous No.2271337]

>>2271248
Because Trigger fans can't think of anything else than that even when their precious game had no characterization at all for half of the cast.
Fucking Van and Gogh had more characterization and a better story than Ayla.

[Anonymous No.2271354]

>>2269943
It's rather dull, which really shows on replay.

[Anonymous No.2271380]

In a game with otherwise outstanding music, I actually hate the battle theme. It totally grates on me.

[Anonymous No.2271391]

>>2271380
The battle theme is pretty meh.

[Anonymous No.2271472]

>>2269964
>story is convoluted
Every JRPG's story is convoluted. That's what makes them JRPG. They're basically soap operas with magic and fight scenes. They're Buffy the Vampire Slayer in vidya form.
I didn't mind the lack of direct sequentiality with CT because I never liked CT much to begin with (I'm the guy who did everything there is to do in CT, maxed out all stats, wrote a detailed FAQ, compiled a steal chart and every other possible thing possible in that game, up to and including playing through every scene with every possible character combination available to the player at that part of the story, yet still disliked it; you've probably seen me post this here before).

>battle system sucks
Indeed.
Though both CT and CC were mostly press-A-to-win RPGs, I liked CTs battle system more for two reasons:
• though frustrating to some, I liked that enemy positions relative each other and the player characters dictated what/how techniques will work
• lots of double and triple techs; way, WAY more than CC

Though select-all techs essentially nullified the whole positional tech thing, I still liked it. I'd have liked it more if all techs were positional and none were select-all. CC did away with both positional techs and with the majority of double/triple techs.

And I didn't like the element system. It was better than FF7's materia and FF8's junction bullshit, though.

>>2270449
Not the soundtrack, but I do think the characters were bland, yes. But the ones in CC were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay fucking worse, except for Kid, Lynx and Anti-Kid.
CT's characters were no better or worse than most other JRPG characters. To say that they're bland compared to other JRPGs would be fuckstupid.

>>2270807
As said above, I also disliked element (and materia and junction), but not because it wasn't explained at length. I'm an oldschool RPGer; part of my enjoyment derived from figuring that shit out myself.

[Anonymous No.2271491]

I have to admit, when I played CC for the first time back in the day, I didn't like it and eventually dropped the game.
Played it again last year (right after CT DS) and had a awesome time.

[Anonymous No.2271494]

>>2271240
I gave up on Xenogears long before this part. I only got to the peaceful town or whatever where Barts cousin is like the head priestess of.

You know why I gave up?
For every cool minute I did I had one or more minutes of exposition, and dialogue, or otherwise bullshit like finding a kid hiding behind a wall that you have to rotate the camera to find.

[Anonymous No.2271497]

>>2271472
>playing games you don't like
>playing games you don't like until you've completely done everything there is to do in the game
What is wrong with you? Something on a fundamental level to do with your early childhood development I would assume.

[Anonymous No.2271537]

>>2271497
Being a Square game, I figured it'd get a strong following. I played through it so I'd be able to discuss it, if necessary.
Same reason I began reading the Harry Potter in university when book 4 was released and everyone in the physics department was discussing it at length.
Same reason I've watched lots of the tv shows I've watched.
Basically, they're cultural phenomenons of varying scale and knowing about them helps with enjoying things that may, in the future, be derivative works and/or that reference them. In the book, The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao, Junot Diaz makes a number of allusions to Tolkien as well as to various comic books. A friend of mine, a woman, who also read it missed all of those references entirely because she lacks the nerdy gene completely. She didn't enjoy Oscar Wao as much as I did. Another friend of mine and I watched the C4 series Utopia together and, because he's completely ignorant of world events from the 60s-80s, missed a lot of the references in there and had to have it spelled out for him.

Basically: I like knowing things.

[Anonymous No.2271547]

>>2271537
You're a sociopath trying to fit in with the rest of society.

[Anonymous No.2271552]

>>2271547
More like a cultural orphan with little in common with most people so I attach myself to petty things in order to engage in elevator small talk with others. Lonely, really. Kinda happens to a lot of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kids but we tend to live so far away from one another, that it's difficult to seek another out within reasonable geographic proximity.
Not a sociopath/psychopath, though, because, if anything, I've got too much empathy, not too little.

[Anonymous No.2271585]

>>2270945
Let's play a game.
Without looking anything up, memory alone, why do you need to fight those dragons?

[Anonymous No.2271594]

>>2271585
Cuz they're bad and you're good, duh.

[Anonymous No.2271606]

>>2271594
I'm not even sure they were bad actually.
And I've played the game twice.

[Anonymous No.2271613]

>>2271585
>tfw I played this as a kid and don't remember why I was doing it
>I was just doing it
>Then I beat I think the green dragon and just stopped playing.

[Anonymous No.2271620]

>>2271585
You need the dragon's "blessings" to unlock the seal on Chronopolis/Sea of Eden. A quarter of the game is about this, it's really easy to remember.

[Anonymous No.2271665]

>>2271620
>A quarter of the game is killing Dragons that are just minding their own business.
>For that entire quarter you are barely given plot in between fighting the dragons.
>instead it throws a huge exposition block at the beginning, and another at the end of the segment.
>its memorable and considered good by some people.

[Razz No.2271691]

>>2271606
They were bad in the sense that they believed the Reptites were supposed to be the dominant species in all realities, and were meddling with Balthazar's plan to separate Schala from the Time Devourer and destroy it.

Whether or not it's "bad" to consider that Reptites were the true inheritors of the Earth until Lavos fucked that all to hell is a matter of perspective. The Dragon Gods never asked to be pulled from their original reality where Lavos didn't fall into the Prime Reality where it did.

[Anonymous No.2271706]

>>2271494
Holy shit this

I LOVED it back when it came out. But it really doesn't hold up, holy shit so much fucking exposition. And I do still like most of the jrpgs I played back in the day. But xenogears was too much.

[Anonymous No.2271884]

Trigger is entertaining like how a movie is entertaining.
Cross is entertaining like how a fever dream is entertaining

[Anonymous No.2274264]

>>2270523
>dominant paw

[Anonymous No.2274320]

neckbeards are mad because the game tells them to get a GF

triggerniggers are mad because
>they don't understand the basic premise
>MUH CRONO
>MUH GUARDIA
>MUH UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH

[Anonymous No.2274728]

>>2271665
You don't go around killing dragons, you go visit them and either all or some of them ask you why you're there, they all fight you when you ask for their blessing as a test, they act all polite. Also every single time you find and fight a dragon they talk to you about breaking the FATE barrier, so you get a constant reminder of why you're doing it over and over. It's not Dead Sea memorable, but yeah it's easy to remember why you're hunting them down.

[Anonymous No.2275624]

The notion that you "go around killing dragons minding their own business" is again more hilarious proof that Triggerniggers are borderline illiterate.

[Anonymous No.2276013]

>dat buildup
>dat opening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFiSb9SBOW0

[Anonymous No.2276832]

if i didnt like chrono trigger (meaning im not a fanboy. i liked the rpg system but not the game itself) would i like chrono cross?

[Anonymous No.2276858]

>>2276832
Depends: do you like FF7, FF8 and Gensou Suikoden? Cuz the game combines elements of all three.

[Anonymous No.2276871]

>>2276858
i love 7, i only liked the system from 8, and i never played gensou suikoden. so im guessing i would like cross, ill have to try and pick up a copy.

[Anonymous No.2276874]

>>2276858
>>2276871
>FF7
>FF8
>Anything like Cross
Stop trying to get people to play Cross by comparing it to better games when its nothing like either of them.

[Anonymous No.2276892]

>>2276832
Well, I loved Chrono Trigger but couldn't get into Cross if that means anything to you.

[Anonymous No.2276923]

>>2276874
The battle and element system is like a cross between 7's materia and 8's junction.

Also, I greatly dislike 7, appreciate 8 for trying (though ultimatley failing) to be different and kinda like Cross.

>>2276871
Keep in mind: the gameplay and story isn't like any of those, just the battle system. One thing I greatly disliked about CC is it's small game world.

[Anonymous No.2277774]

>>2276832
Cross has a stamina/balance based fighting system. Each of your actions depletes certain amounts of yours adds a little stamina to everyone else's bar (enemy including). When a certain threshold is reached, the enemy can act. Attacking raises your elements level (magic equivalent), which allows you to use them (they're placed in a level-based grid). There are some more intricacies but that's basically it.

The story is mostly an individual's journey instead of a "save the world" kind of thing. The story isn't also always presented on a platter a la "here's this spiky evil guy, beat him".

[Anonymous No.2277794]

"Chrono Cross proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good" - Nobuo Uematsu

[Anonymous No.2277884]

>>2277794
"90% of quotes on the Internet are falsely invented, 2% are falsely attributed, 8% are misquoted and 100% are taken out of context." - Aristophanes

"A right, proper cunt, you are." - Kung Fu Tze

"Nobody loves you and you have no friends" - Jesus of Nazareth

"You have a face only a mother could love. And I never particularly cared for it, either" - yr mum

[Anonymous No.2277887]

>>2277794
o hai, newfag

[Anonymous No.2277897]

>>2277884
>>2277887
how the fuck does something so stupid generate so much butthurt

[Anonymous No.2277903]

>>2277897
nigra

[Anonymous No.2277916]

>>2271248
Because Suikoden bothered doing the minimum effort of giving all those characters a reason to be in the story.
Why is the Voodoo doll fighting for the fate of the world? Or the alien or the plant or even the CAPS GUY that gets a few moments in the story.
In a game that's strongly story based only a handful of characters have any weight on this plot. All of them but one are optional and the main one is a silent protagonist.
"Too many characters" doesn't really become a problem if you at least have a few defined characters that carry the story and have plot relevant moments.
You would think Serge's girlfriend of sorts would be important somehow. But she has nothing to do or say of any relevance. She has no reason to aim high to save the world or whatever.

[Anonymous No.2277923]

>>2277916
>world gonna go kaboom-boom if i don't do something
Sounds like a pretty good reason to help. If the world was gonna go to shit and I could reasonably do something to help prevent it, I would. Wouldn't you?

[Anonymous No.2277937]

>>2277923
Why doesn't every single person do this, then?
For a character to have any worth in a story they need to be involved beyond basic logic. Otherwise you end up with automatons. Serge barely has any reasons to investigate other than "huh, a world where I died" but at least he has THAT.
It's a disjointed cast, on top of that. They make generic comments on events with an accent generator but they never interact with the rest of the party. They're paper dolls.

[Anonymous No.2277968]

>>2277916
Complaints like this demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the game's themes.

Cross is not another trite retelling of the same old "children leaving their home, growing up, facing a big evil that threatens the world" plot that is prevalent in nearly every jRPG. Cross is the exploration of an individual's place in the world and the consequences of their actions. It's a journey of isolated self-discovery. There is no Trigger grouphug here. People join you, but with their own goals.

Mojo joins you to find his reason for existing. He questions his apparent purpose to the point of self-denial but eventually he comes to terms with it and changes for the better as he realizes that the reason he was born doesn't dictate what he is. Similar themes are found in every character. Each of them represents another way of self-discovery and self-acceptance.

[Anonymous No.2277975]

>>2277968
>Y-you Chrononiggers just don't understand my game's deep plot!

Maybe the game shouldn't have waited until right before the final boss to tell us what the plot was, then.

[Anonymous No.2278007]

>>2277968
>It's a journey of isolated self-discovery
That forces you to have a party because it's an RPG and you need a party to fight enemies.

A jRPG is the wrong medium to tell a story like that.
Do tell how beating up pro-ecology genocidal dwarves fits into this journey of self discovery.

Not to mention "self-discovery" and "self-acceptance" is the bare bones of character development. It's not the main point of a character's story, it's the starting point for their own story.

[Anonymous No.2278009]

>>2277975
There is nothing deep about it. It's a story for adolescents focusing on self-discovery, not beating up some world-threatening evil. Lavos represents closure, the journey of self-discovery is the actual game.

You walked into an exploratory drama expecting Michael Bay explosions, gigantic porcupines and a no-brain-required plot. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a big chunk of Cross haters equally dislike LoM, another masterpiece of the PS1 era, for the very same reason: being unable to grasp the basic premise of a game written for teenagers.

[Anonymous No.2278026]

>>2278007
>Do tell how beating up pro-ecology genocidal dwarves fits into this journey of self discovery.

1) you* kill the hydra, wrecking the swamp
2) the dwarves, emulating you*, wreck the fairies in search of a new home
3) being confronted, they blame you* for showing them the way
4) CUE SELF-REFLECTION AS INDIVIDUAL AND/OR PART OF HUMANITY

Thus we come to

>and the consequences of their actions

This is literally sixth grade stuff. At least in halfway educated countries.

*you don't have to kill the hydra, but if you don't someone else (Norris?) does, so this part is ultimately unavoidable

[Anonymous No.2278314]

>>2278026
>but if you don't someone else (Norris?) does, so this part is ultimately unavoidable
Norris brings the cure from Porre, so yeah like most bad things in the game you can avoid it by choosing to stay away from Kid.

[Anonymous No.2278342]

>>2277937
Because they either don't know about the impending doom or they feel they can't reasonably do anything to help. If everyone could do something to help, there'd be no need for heroes in the first place.

Think of CT: why do Marle, Lucca and Chrono care about an event that will happen roughly 900 years after they and their children will have died? Something that doesn't occur for another forty generations, give or take, from their own? Cuz they know about it and, with their newfound ability to travel time, feel they can do something to help.

And yes: they're automatons. So? So's the cast in every Western-style RPG. So's the cast in the majority of old school Japanese-style RPGs. So's the cast in Chrono Trigger, actually. After a certain point, the dialogue shifts only minutely depending on what characters you choose to have in the party at the time.

This is hardly unique to CC.

[Anonymous No.2278359]

>>2278026
Bad example, there's better in there.

The Hydra was pregnant. Also you get a Level 5 Tech from the summoner character and Razzly's Level 7/part of the Triple Tech thanks to it later.

So the game says "oh no this is bad why did you do this reflect on what you did" then goes back around and rewards you for it.

[Anonymous No.2278384]

>>2269943
All I remember from that game is that it's an RPG, but with a lot of the actual RPG elements neutered. And the battle system was fucking weird too.
But I have only played it maybe 3 times since it's release, so I could honestly be wrong.

But, having my limited knowledge of the game, I can speak to the reasons I didn't like it based on a "first impressions" basis (which is what I think most people base their entire opinion of the game on, honestly):

Combat is too complicated for it's own good. They added in little touches to try and make it interesting, but it ends up playing exactly like any other JRPG anyway, and the "little touches" really only make it cumbersome to complete simple random encounters at times.

The plot is generic as fucking hell and feels like a teen drama.

None of the characters are actually likeable right out of the gate, witch is a sin in JRPGs, since if they don't draw you into the world, you're not staying there.

Rant and rave about "it's not CT" and "the plot is too complex for you" all you want, but the game is just...
Not bad, just mediocre. And why waste 40+ hours on mediocrity when you could just replay CT or FFVII again?

But that's just my 2 cents. I'm sure there are those who will tear that apart, but whatever. I don't care.

And I may be wrong about details here. I admittedly barely played the game. Just offering an alternative insight and the reason I think lots of people passed on CC.

[Anonymous No.2278409]

>>2278359
You're rewarded for revisiting a tragedy and questioning your motives, not for the deed itself. It also presents a moral choice: forsake personal gain for the greater good or be a greedy ass?

[Anonymous No.2278416]

>>2278026
>Swamp is full of poison and generally uninhabitable
>A hydra dies
>NYUFF HUMANS ARE KILLING THE SWAMP

[Anonymous No.2278419]

>>2278416
>hydras purify the water, preventing swamp from turning toxic
>hydras are almost extinct, so the swamp is a total shithole
>humans kill the last hydra, completely dooming the swamp

>WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL LOL IT'S POISONOUS ANYWAY

[Anonymous No.2278508]

>>2278384
>And why waste 40+ hours on mediocrity [a generic as fucking hell plot that feels like a teen drama and a weird battle system that they added in little touches to to try and make it interesting but ends up playing exactly like any other JRPG anyway]. when you could just replay two equally mediocre, melodramatic games, one of which that has an even more convoluted battle system?

Why indeed.

[Anonymous No.2278668]

>>2278384
>The plot is generic as fucking hell

I don't remember a single other rpg coming even close to CC's plot.

[Anonymous No.2279551]

>>2278009
What story did you play? CC has you being being manipulated by 3 factions: Fate/Lynx, The Dragons, and Belthezaar/Schala. Two of those want to control the world, and the last one has you destroy a world-eater. 90% of the plot is controlled/orchestrated by those 3 factions.

[Anonymous No.2279564]

>>2278419
>One pregnant creature left
>Thinking there's any hope for the species, and thus ecosystem.
Anon, get off your high horse and realize the battle was lost before Serge was born

[Anonymous No.2279586]

I believe it was because the director of Cross was only one of the many guys behind Trigger, isn't ti?

Cross might have some elements in the plot that tie it to Trigger, but the whole feel of the game, not only in character design mind you, feel completely different.
Chrono Trigger was a defining RPG of the 4th generation, and possibly one of the grandest from the japanese RPG category.
Cross is just another JRPG on the PS1, I don't think it stands out that much other than the fact it's a sort of sequel (or "what if") to Chrono Trigger.

[Anonymous No.2279606]

>>2278384
Because i enjoy video games. Off to /v/ with you.

[Anonymous No.2280105]

It was my first JRPG alongside pic related, it was both of them that got me into the genre

I was crushed when I looked them up on the Internet as a teenager and discovered they were hated by nearly everyone

Thankfully that's beginning to change

[Anonymous No.2280128]

>>2269943
Do you like it or do you hate it?

Thats all that matters

[Anonymous No.2280370]

>>2279551
Puppet show.

>>2279564
Self-fertilization (it's a hydra!), incest, a wandering hydra or re-population attempts are all valid possibilities to turn the swamp around. Giving up because things don't look rosy is for faggots.

[Anonymous No.2280394]

>>2278668
I don't understand /vr/ sometimes.

CC's story is deemed generic because it fucking is, until it lets you in on whats really going on like halfway through the game. Which fans seem to forget. Then it throws you on around for a bit before getting to the real meat, and by then, who do you have left? Only diehards. Because you've basically made it so uninteresting for most people they either stopped playing, or did not give a shit and forced their way through it.

[Anonymous No.2280565]

>>2280394
>CC's story is deemed generic because it fucking is

Explain how it's generic

[Anonymous No.2280586]

>>2280105
i downloaded both chrono cross and legend of mana to play them for the first time weeks ago, and mana bored me in 5 minutes, cross is interesting, kinda feels like the playing FF7 for the first time

[Anonymous No.2280685]

>>2269976
Whenever I see him in combat, his belt looks like he's got his dong out.

[Anonymous No.2280696]

>>2280565
>Young boy leading a quiet life in a quiet village is pulled into a crazy other world through extraneous circumstances.

[Anonymous No.2281128]

>>2280696
>Young boy leading a quiet life in a quiet village is pulled into other time periods through extraneous circumstances.

You can pretty much do this with just about any other jRPG. They sure do love their "normal teen + friends are really the saviors of the world" schtick.

[Anonymous No.2281141]

>>2280586
Mana really shines when the world opens up and you have the multiple arcs available to you
>dat Jumi arc
>dat Dragoon arc
>all Niccolo missions
Fucking divine, and that's just scratching the tip of the iceberg, it's always fun to keep meeting the same characters and seeing where they went and what they have done with their lives

[Anonymous No.2281149]

>>2280696
That's because if at the start of the game your guy was already a seasoned adventurer then people wouldn't shut up about wanting to know more about his past and making up crazy shitty theories like it already happens to games that do this

Fans are fucking retarded, they like their stories formulaic

[Anonymous No.2281151]

>>2280105

>Thankfully that's beginning to change

Don't use /v/ as a gauge for popularity or acceptance. Being contrary is a way of life here.

[Anonymous No.2281183]

>>2280105
LoM was such a comfy game, I loved every minute of it. It was one of (but not the) first JRPGs I played.

[Anonymous No.2281684]

>>2281151
Thankfully I'm not on /v/

[Anonymous No.2281709]

>>2269943

the music and graphics were fantastic, but the gameplay was shit tier.

CT was already quite easy. CC just took it to another level. combat was slow, the abilities were lame as fuck (at least in CT each character had some memorable moves that played on the character, and dual/triple techs made for interesting character combos). random monsters barely scratched you, and because of the way they handled the leveling system this made all random encounters tedious and pointless.

the 1-2-3 hit system was an interesting idea in theory but in practice it was once again more tedious/pointless than interesting.

CT's battle system wasnt amazing but at least it was pretty fast-paced and had an element of enemy positioning.

since the battle system is at least half the game, this really killed it for me. i wanted to like it though.

[Anonymous No.2283208]

I definitely think that Cross' story is "better" once you've beaten it once just like Final Fantasy 8.

Once you kind of have the background it becomes easier to digest. I still feel a lot of the criticisms of it are valid, like playable characters getting little to no development outside of Serge/Kid (and Serge doesn't even fucking talk) . A rather lackluster and generally uninteresting combat and customization system and you're left with fairly standard JRPG.

Not terrible.
Not amazing.
Just a 7/10 that some people hate unjustifiably, and some people praise unjustifiably.

[Anonymous No.2283251]

Am I the only one who vastly prefers Radical Dreamers? The second the game started I felt like I was in a richer, more story-focused Chrono Trigger. Cross, while having tons of atmosphere, doesn't feel like a Chrono game at all.

[Anonymous No.2283260]

>>2283251
>A visual novel
>more story focused
10/10 post. Nailed it.

[Anonymous No.2283269]

>>2283260

So.....What? You didn't like it?

[Anonymous No.2283275]

>>2283269
I don't play visual novels. I'm saying you VN's -have- to have an interesting and engaging story because its literally the only reason to play one

[Anonymous No.2283282]

>>2283275
Radical Dreamers is quite a bit closer to a choose your own adventure book than a novel though. There's even a simple combat system with invisible hit points.

[Anonymous No.2283286]

>>2283282

Exactly. And, you know, I really don't think the battle system is as bad as they make it out to be. The biggest thing that stood out to me was what you already mentioned; a better way to gauge status/hitpoints. Also I could stand to hear a little less from Kidd.

[Anonymous No.2283482]

>>2269943
It was also possible to utterly screw yourself so you couldn't proceed and had to restart. Recruiting Mickey comes to mind. I still enjoyed the game but it wasn't without its flaws - especially the amount of characters, and the copypasta characters with different inherent elements. I understand the 'alternate world' idea lead to this sort of thing but damn was it just a crappy excuse to almost double the recruitable cast.

[Anonymous No.2283525]

>>2283482
>It was also possible to utterly screw yourself so you couldn't proceed and had to restart. Recruiting Mickey comes to mind.
What the hell are you talking about. You can never get stuck anywhere in CC. You can miss sidequests/characters but never get stuck.

>>2283251
I like the CC world/gameplay more (I do think it feels like Chrono) but RD is much more superior in characters and story. I still think it's one of the better story sequels in vidya. Shame CC overcomplicated things.

>>2283286
>a better way to gauge status/hitpoints.
It's easy if you read what Kid...
>Also I could stand to hear a little less from Kidd.
lol. Well, if you read her reaction after every battle it's easy to gauge how Serge's doing.

Also important because if you make her hate you she holds on to the Chrono Trigger and the final boss kills you.

[Anonymous No.2283836]

>>2277916
>Suikoden gave those characters a reason to be in the story

Ok I'm a huge Suikodenfag but I could make laundry lists of characters that are in no way related to the main plot. Rikimaru sticks out, you pay for his meal so he helps you save the world. Mukumuku and family just follow you around because fuck all, Zamza just wants to impress Nanami, etc.

[Anonymous No.2283846]

Each CC character represents a problem, coming to terms with the problem and a solution. Their diversity is important as is their amount. Cross is about the individual. This is also reflected in Schala's speech.

In a way it's similar to LoM; each of the NPCs represents a different manifestation of love. People, freedom, money, appreciation, you name it.

[Anonymous No.2283872]

This is my first JRPG and I love it to this day. Ahhh... The memories.

[Anonymous No.2284285]

>>2283525
>what the hell are you talking about
Like I said, as it happened to me. Prior to recruiting Mickey I managed to switch screens before talking to him. Thus I managed to hose myself as when I returned he was no where on his ship and poof thus it was dead.

[Anonymous No.2284287]

>>2284285
>It didn't happen to me so thus it isn't possible

[Anonymous No.2284753]

>>2284285
>Mickey

[Anonymous No.2284793]

>>2271497
>criticize a game before finishing it
>why are you so quick to judge the game?
>criticize a game after finishing it
>why are you forcing yourself to play the game?

[Anonymous No.2284806]

Best game of all time followed closely by Morrowind.

[Anonymous No.2285257]

>>2269964
Battle system and music were the only redeeming qualities imo.

Agree the story was shit and I'm not a fan of the aesthetic.

(Main character has pink socks and hat, what a faggot)

[Anonymous No.2285279]

>>2284793
>>why are you forcing yourself to play the game?
Nah, it's
>Why did you play it to the end then if it was so bad?

[Anonymous No.2285284]

>>2285279
I actually had to force myself to finish this game b/c I hate leaving games unfinished. The only thing that kept it going for me was the battle system. Music got repetitive by the end

Man the ending of this game is so fucking bad tho...

[Anonymous No.2285341]

>>2269943
why the fuck do you keep spamming this shit?

[Anonymous No.2285392]

>>2285341
contrarian crossfags want to feel validated

[Anonymous No.2285438]

>>2285392
>contrarian crossfags
>game is universally acclaimed

The only people that hate Cross are contrarian Triggerniggers

[Anonymous No.2285465]

>>2270907
Don't disrespect Kid, fatso, she's the cutest girl ever and I saved her immediately when she got sick every time even knowing she would get better anyways because I fucking love her and I fucking hate serge for getting her holy fuck serge I wish I was you you lucky piece of assburgers