/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2229208]

So how come this isn't as popular as other JRPGs here?
It's been translated for a while now, and the whimsical but depressing atmosphere and laid-back pace are exactly the kind of thing I'd expect fans of old JRPGs to be into.

[Anonymous No.2229219]

I'm not terribly interested in RPGs anymore but I LOVE that cover

[Anonymous No.2229223]

Nah, most of /vr/ play Chrono Trigger, Earthbound and maybe Final Fantasy VI and think "yep, that's it. I've played the best, why bother with the rest?".

[Anonymous No.2229226]

I didn't know it was fully translated.

Checked some videos some years back and it was all japanese. I didn't even know there were translations going on.

The music's fucking awesome though. Maybe I can now give it a try.

[Anonymous No.2229232]

I'm still playing the prequel.

Mystic Ark has been in my backlog since Dynamic-Designs released their translation, but I really need to finish 7th Saga first.

[Anonymous No.2229239]

>>2229219
The official art is pretty great. Too bad the way the game is presented makes it impossible to do the box art justice (at least in terms of style and detail), though the visuals are as surreal as you are lead to expect.

[Anonymous No.2229260]

>>2229223
Add a couple of Dragon Quests, and not only would that be true, but they'd also be right. JRPG is a miserable genre.

[Anonymous No.2229279]

I like Dark Law better

[Anonymous No.2229375]

Maboroshi Gekijo any good?

[Anonymous No.2229383]

>>2229375
>Entry of the scarecrow head; past the painted payboy, and bid me join the show.
>Night witch brigade turn the mirror, and reel of dream unrolled.

I...I see.

[Anonymous No.2229386]

>>2229208
Is the ps1 game the 3erd game in the series? i remember back in the day that this game was refered as 7th saga 2 mystic ark

[Anonymous No.2229408]

>>2229208
>So how come this isn't as popular as other JRPGs here?

Because it's bullshit. I mean, the OST is great, sure. And the concept is neat, and it really draws you in with the cat level.

But the entire second half of the game is completely phoned in. Giant's world, Fairytale world, whatever godforsaken thing is between those or before them that I've blocked from memory. Between the encounter rate and the excuses they come up with to make you walk the same dungeon over and over again, it's just unacceptable.

[Anonymous No.2229412]

There are apparently two translations of MA, released a couple months apart oddly enough (or suspiciously?). There's the Aeon Genesis translation patch and the Dynamic-Designs translation patch.

Which is better?

[@@@@@@djm.factorymark.co.jp !jVE.LMpTdw No.2229424]

Never heard of it, but thanks for the recommendation

[Anonymous No.2229517]

>>2229412
Dynamic Designs, better font and more room for full names of items

[Anonymous No.2229591]

>>2229223
That also applies to the Internet at large.

[Anonymous No.2229597]

>>2229208
It's pedigree kind of sets it up for failing. It's actually the pseudo-sequel to 7th Saga, so the gameplay doesn't measure.

I also wish it had a bit more inspiration in places. The neat atmosphere and ideas end up wasted.

[Anonymous No.2229607]

I've never even heard of it and I'm pretty familiar with the console. I'll check it out, that art is gorgeous.

[Anonymous No.2229867]

>>2229260
That's called an opinion. No need to shit post about a very popular genre just because you either don't or have the mind to handle such games.

[Anonymous No.2229907]

>>2229232
I was playing that a couple weeks ago. It was enjoyable, it felt very much like a Dragon Quest game, just with too much grinding. I stopped playing at the second dungeon because I didn't have the patience for it.

[Anonymous No.2229974]

>>2229208
Never played 7th Saga either.
I wish I had time to play all these old RPGs but as I get older it seems like I never have the opportunity to sink as many hours into them as I like. When I do end up playing them, I inevitably get distracted by life, stop playing for a while, forget what I was doing in the game, then feel like I should start over. Rinse. Repeat.

[Anonymous No.2230591]

>>2229867
>have the mind to handle such games.
Yeah, it sures takes a lot to spam the best magic attack over and over until enemies die, it sure takes a lot to grind, it sure takes a lot to go through extremely linear dungeons.

JRPGs are an almost brain-dead genre.

[Anonymous No.2230625]

>>2230591
>JRPGs are an almost brain-dead genre.
I see you haven't played much more than FF, how about you shut up and stop embarassing yourself.

[Anonymous No.2230640]

>>2230591
Yeah, it sures takes a lot to spam the jump button over and over until enemies die, it sure takes a lot to make high score, it sure takes a lot to go right through an extremely linear level.

Platformers are an almost brain-dead genre.

[Anonymous No.2230641]

A former friend of mine was a big fan of 7th Saga and used to keep asking me if there was a translation patch for Mystic Ark (there wasn't, this was like 1998 and not many were online) so Mystic Ark always lingered in the back of my mind, then when it was finally translated (by 2 groups no less), I decided to try it out.

What a lame RPG, there's just no interesting story whatsoever.
I played until after the cat world and into the.. fruit world? whatever. then I lost interest.

Neh, not my thing.

[Anonymous No.2230642]

>>2229974

Never heard of this one. I keep seeing people mention 7th Saga. Is it a sequel or do they plat similarly or something?

[Anonymous No.2230654]

>>2230642
It's not a direct sequel, though gameplay is similar.

Thing is that 7th Saga was made more difficult outside of Japan so it feels easy in comparison.

[Anonymous No.2230657]

>>2230625
Well, I also played Chrono Trigger, a bunch of Dragon Quest games, Shin Megami Tensei, Pokemon, Secret of Mana, Live-a-Live, Earthbound, Lufia, Golden Sun, and many others but hey, you can believe whatever you want.

>>2230640
This post is stupid and you know it, it takes actual skill to go through a platforming level, it takes nothing to have your attackers use their best attack and your healer heal every turn ever , not to mention you don't even need to do that much if you're not in a boss battle, you can literally go through most random battles just pressing A over and over.

[Anonymous No.2230663]

>>2230657
Yeah just as I though all the casual shit, come back after playing stuff like SaGa, JP Wizardry or Dark Law and you can talk about Jrpgs with the Cool Dawgs.

[Anonymous No.2230667]

>>2230663
>SaGa
I've played SaGa and still stand by my claims.
>JP Wizardry
Hahaha, I'll just play real Wizardry instead.

[Anonymous No.2230674]

>>2230667
>I've played SaGa and still stand by my claims.
Yeah, cool story bro, how about making a video of you spamming Fudo each turn and mass healing without problems against the 7 Heroes?
It sure is easy right?
>Hahaha, I'll just play real Wizardry instead.
Which is exactly the same with the exception of Return of Werdna and maybe, just maybe Heart of the Maelstrom, so what?

Great points, keep making a fool of yourself.

[Anonymous No.2230681]

>>2230674
I just don't see how a few battles in some semi-obscure games contradict my claim that JRPGs are an almost brain-dead genre. It's not like I'm saying they are inherently shit, but most games people talk about (in this board even) are the most casual shit ever, which is how this conversation got started, me laughing at someone saying that someone doesn't have "the mind to handle JRPGs".

Also, I haven't played all JP Wizardry games but the ones I've seen didn't even come close to the degree of exploration and customization of VI, VII and VIII.

[Anonymous No.2230698]

>>2230681
>I just don't see how a few battles in some semi-obscure games contradict my claim that JRPGs are an almost brain-dead genre.

You don't? Okay, let me be less cryptic.
For your record, the vast majority of games from EVERY genre is casual shit with no learning curve whatsoever, this is true for JRPG as much as it's true for Platformers, action, SHMUPS or strategy games, this is especially true for the most popular games, the only really hard platformers you can get won't even require both my hands to count, the most notable one I can think of right now is Umihara Kawase, which is fairly obscure in the west and is still niche in the east.

Since you mentioned western Wizardry let me take up RoW again, that game was insanely difficult right? It sold like shit, and we both know why, because the general audience doesn't want hard games, undertandably, the same has happened with JRPGs, have you heard of Unlimited: Saga? It bombed because it was just as cryptic if not more than RoW while also having an obviously much more refined system and friendly interface, yet, people couldn't get the hang of the game except a few people who were experts of the series and it bombed as hard as the nukes in Japan.
Same with a lot of other titles in other genres, 90% of the games ever created can be defined braindead by someone who has more than 20 years of experience in videogames.

Your claim of Jrpgs being a braindead genre is not only pointless, but irritating as well in its hypocrisy, because not every platformer is Mario, not every SHMUP is Parodius, not every action game is Blood Omen, thankfully.

[Anonymous No.2230756]

>>2230698
I still disagree with you, you'll have a much easier time finding popular challenging games in pretty much any genre that's not JRPGs, Castlevania 3, Ninja Gaiden (2D and 3D), Devil May Cry, Quake, Super Meat Boy, Jagged Alliance, Thief, System Shock... even Mario games demand SOME skill, while most JRPGs are just bloated with junk random battles, and no room for any strategical or tactical thought.

Again, this basically all started from me making fun of someone implying JRPGs are some sort of elite games, that only people that have "the mind for it" can play, which you know is bullshit and kind of hilarious.

I stand by my statement, any shithead can beat a FF if he has enough patience to grind, while some people will never be able to beat Mario 1.

[Anonymous No.2230789]

>>2230698
If you think about it, even Mario and Parodius are more involving than a cookie-cutter JRPG, and it's still harder to master the most difficult shmups and strategy games than it is to master anything in the saga series, so he kinda has a point.

[Anonymous No.2230821]

>>2230756
>any shithead can beat a FF if he has enough patience to grind
That is still not true, even FFII's system makes it so that grinding isn't enough, same with SaGa 2 for the GB, you're oversimplyfying the genre.
>while some people will never be able to beat Mario 1.
I hardly believe it.
>>2230789
>even Mario and Parodius are more involving than a cookie-cutter JRPG
It depends on what you're looking for really, both are on the same level of their respective genres.
> and it's still harder to master the most difficult shmups and strategy games than it is to master anything in the saga series,
Strategy games I doubt, and of course real time genres are more difficult due to their nature of real time games, that much is obvious and making a comparison between them and turn based games is kinda silly to begin with, it's like comparing a statue to a photo.

[Anonymous No.2230846]

>>2230756
>even Mario games demand SOME skill
Mario games demand a lot of skill. Games in the series like SMB3 are very challenging. Before you spout some elitist nonsense, I have beaten all Castlevania, Contra and Makaimura (both loops of original arcade version of 1 in particular) games, and I find SMB3 easily equal to any of those in terms of challenge.

You people kept playing these games for years and years and now you believe that, because you know them by heart, they're easy. They aren't, though. Add some fucking objectivity to your shitty judgements.

[Anonymous No.2230865]

>>2230821
>It depends on what you're looking for really, both are on the same level of their respective genres.
So, taken outside of the narrow context of their own genres, would you really say an average shmup or strategy game requires less thought and practice than an average jrpg?

[Anonymous No.2230870]

>>2230821
> FFII's system makes it so that grinding isn't enough
It's still grinding, it just takes longer.

> It depends on what you're looking for really, both are on the same level of their respective genres.
Yeah, and low-level or even mid-level JRPGs are still easier than most games is what I am saying.

> Strategy games I doubt
Are you fucking serious? Do you honestly think shit like Jagged Alliance, XCOM, HOMM, or Master of Orion (All very well-known games) are on the same level as FFVI, Chrono Trigger or SMT? Most JRPG players wouldn't even get past learning how to play those games in a beginner level.

Anyway, this is clearly going nowhere so this is my last reply.

[Anonymous No.2230875]

>>2230865
In the vast majority of cases? No, but I don't see how that makes it more or less involving.
I'd say FFIV is generally more involving than Parodius for the sole reason of having a storyline.
Also, don't forget that JRPG also have either action or generally real time subgenres as well as strategy, it's a vast genre.

And again, don't make the mistake of comparing genres that have completely different philosophies, a piano might be mechanically harder to master than a single pair of drums, but they have completely different natures and purposes.

[Anonymous No.2230879]

>>2230846
I don't think the point was to belittle Mario but to say that even the most basic of platformers is harder than most JRPGs.

[Anonymous No.2230917]

>>2230875
>the sole reason of having a storyline
>caring about story in a video game

[Anonymous No.2231187]

>>2230875
>Also, don't forget that JRPG also have either action or generally real time subgenres as well as strategy, it's a vast genre.
This is an old and lazy cop-out. Call it what you want, but we all know which games we're talking about, which is why King's Field and Brandish never get mentioned in jrpg threads, and even Parasite Eve and Vagrant Story get their own separate threads.
When someone asks for jrpg recommendations most people post animu grindan games, but when those games get criticized someone usually points out how you can't say jrpgs are bad because jrpg really means "any japanese game with stat progression".
You're obviously aware of how ridiculous this is as well, otherwise you would have brought up this argument right away instead of resorting to it after you've had to backpedal on your argument about all run-of-the-mill games being equally braindead regardless of genre.

[Anonymous No.2231201]

>>2230875
Erm, JRPGs are a subgenre of RPGs. Action-RPGs and SRPGs (probably what we're talking about the most here) are a different thing completely.

Also, who cares? Play what you want to play everyone. It's all about fun.

[Anonymous No.2231718]

>>2229517
>Dynamic Designs
This one is terrible, the font might look nicer at a glance but it has serious gap issues, and uses lots of slang words instead of proper english, not to mention the horrid splash screen and "visit our site at www blah blah com for updates etc. shit they did.

Talk about immersion breaking. Stick with the Aeon Genesis translation.

[Anonymous No.2231743]

>>2229597
God, I wanted to like 7th Saga so badly because the core concept was pretty interesting, but it just was so mechanically punishing and uninspired, and the visuals felt very phoned in.

[Anonymous No.2231760]

>>2230698
RoW?

[Anonymous No.2231762]

>>2231760
Return of Werdna.

[Anonymous No.2231808]

I loved 7th Saga so much growing up. Me and my brother would try to get through the game without taking on a partner. I managed to get through with Esuna, and he managed with Leges. Quite a hard game, but very satisfying once you manage to complete it. I think it might even be the most difficult JRPG I have ever beaten. Secret of Mana came out like a week later too ... what a great time to be a JRPG fan.

I have a Timewalk boxed Mystic Ark, but I'm not ready to play it so it remains sealed. Some day when I have the time ...

[Anonymous No.2231851]

>>2230698
>It sold like shit

it sold 2 million according to Robert Sirotek on a Matt Chat interview

[Anonymous No.2231979]

>>2230917
Strangely enough most people do, especially nowadays. It's also undeniable that a storyline makes games more involving for the average joe.
>>2231187
>but when those games get criticized someone usually points out how you can't say jrpgs are bad because jrpg really means "any japanese game with stat progression".
That wasn't my point though, but whatever.
And that is also true for western RPGs, otherwise Diablo wouldn't be an RPG. I brought it up because I was talking about genres that feature real time combat, nothing more than that, you want me to say that Darius or Gradius IV are more challenging than Ys? Hell, you might be right, I had much more difficulty and game overs in Gradius Gaiden than in any Ys game I played until now, but the contrary is also true and here we're back at tile 1.
>>2231851
Yeah, and it was still the worst selling Wizardry title in the series.
I saw that interview too, you know.

For the record, my whole point was simply to prove that any game can be called braindead on paper or after playing a couple of mainstream games, I don't know how it all came tumbling down to this show of who's got the biggest dick in terms of difficulty and I don't honestly care, just saying that every genre has very challenging games, the fact that people find some genres more challenging than others is unrelated to the nature of the genre, chess and ping pong are both complex and entertaining sports but they're completely different in concept, just like RPGs and SHMUPS.

[Anonymous No.2232334]

>>2230640
look at this idiot

[Anonymous No.2232478]

>>2231718
>Talk about immersion breaking.

[Anonymous No.2232484]

Unrelated but I was playing pier solar the other day and even though it's an easy game it was refreshing how most encounters are designed to punish the fuck out of you if you mash attack.
Lunar does that as well but that felt a bit on the unfair side.