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/vr/ - Retro Games

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2193641 No.2193641 [Reply] [Original]

What the hell is Doom's problem anyway?

>> No.2193645

10/10 thread, i lol'd

>> No.2193717

I know the reason that port is so poor because it was rushed out the door in time for Christmas.
Apparently it was so rushed, the guy designing the box art forgot to flip the 32X logo around in whatever '90s people used instead of InDesign.

>> No.2193759 [DELETED] 

>>2193641
it's a shit game played by retro equivalent of cod-babbies

>> No.2193768

>>2193759
No, it's a shit port.

>> No.2193772

>>2193759
You do know CoD hasn't always been trash right? I mean probably not since you reek of /v/ with that shitpost.

>> No.2193793

>>2193641
Holy shit. I never noticed that before. I had to look at my copy to double check and sure enough it's the same way.

>> No.2193841

>>2193768
It's actually not bad. It plays at a steady framerate and looks pretty good. It just isn't complete.

>> No.2193858

Hey OP, if that's your collection then you should get Shadow Squadron.

Makes owning a 32x worth it. It's fun and I've yet to see another game like it.

>> No.2193873
File: 85 KB, 500x500, dembones.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2193873

>>2193641
>[Post a Reply]
You want DOOM on your shitty console or not sega pleb?

Then you let Id design the case and fuck with your pathetic ocd. (though how any company can claim ocd with such crazy half assed hardware revisions is beyond me.)

>> No.2194126
File: 108 KB, 300x300, woah shit calm down lil nigga.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2194126

>>2193641
>doesn't have dancing bugs and sexy stellar assaults in his collection
get crackin son

>> No.2194137

It likes to go against the grain.

>> No.2194143
File: 335 KB, 720x1038, 1395641636088.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2194143

>>2194137
>Doom 32x using that wheat thresher sound driver
it all comes into perspective now

>> No.2194152

>>2193873
>not boners_boning.jpg

>> No.2194310
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2194310

What the hell is Astal's problem anyway?

>> No.2194316

>>2194310
This guy has the D

>> No.2194331

>>2193717
>>2193841
Why were all console ports of Doom rushed/unfinished/poorly coded/crudely altered? I know iD personally sabotaged the Saturn version, but are they also responsible for not allowing a perfect PC port for any other system?

>32X
Pillarboxed, awful use of soundchip
>Saturn
Port of a port, 15fps, rendered in software
>PS1
All sounds and music expunged and replaced
>3DO
Pillarboxed, 10fps
>Jaguar
No music

I mean if every console manufacturer was desperate to get Doom on their machines you'd think they'd give the developers time to make a genuinely good port. The PS1 and Saturn especially could have hosted great versions if done by the right people. iD also allowed for a great remake of Quake on the Saturn, so why not Doom? What a waste.

>> No.2194336

>>2194331
i know the snes doom didn't have sound because of the actual limitations of the machine...

but then you see a fucking printer running it

>> No.2194341

>>2194331
>are they also responsible for not allowing a perfect PC port for any other system?
>iD also allowed for a great remake
I heard the recently allowed a perfect Quake 3 port for Atari 2600

>> No.2194343

>>2193768
>>2193772

kek @ doom lover janny who was rustled by that post

>> No.2194347

>>2194331
The ps1 port is superior in every way though. The rest were that way due to limitations of the machines.

>> No.2194356

>>2194347
Cutting out the enemy sounds and music stripped the game of its oomph and atmosphere.

>>2194341
Your post is ironic because as of 2009 iD no longer own the licenses.

>> No.2194395
File: 1017 KB, 126x168, 2spooky.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2194395

>>2194356
The PS1 version is pretty nice, though. It feels more like Doom 3, especially if you turn running off.

>> No.2194407

>>2194316
The D stands for dracula.

>> No.2194410

>>2193641
I felt that Motocross Championship was worse.

>> No.2194439
File: 79 KB, 480x384, gfs_50248_2_11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2194439

>>2194331
The Jaguar version is actually not bad graphically and it's pretty smooth for a console port.

I like the N64 version because it's actually a different game to the original.

>> No.2194441

>>2194439
>I like the N64 version because it's actually a different game to the original.

it's the doom 3 we all wanted

>> No.2194467
File: 9 KB, 236x155, 08d78f01a4a943906a040383fac17135.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2194467

>>2193641
>> This entire time the game has been called WOOⱭ

>> No.2194471

>>2194331
The 3do version sucked because the publishing company thought that porting the game would require dropping in new art for the weapons and hitting the "recompile" button. And they promised a more up-to-date version of the game for the coders, which did not exist. Also, they had to do shit like re-do parts of the OS because it was nonfunctional.

This is the first time I hear about ID personally sabotaging the Saturn version though.

As for the other console versions, they probably sucked because all the consoles were vastly underpowered at the time. They had mediocre CPUs with custom video hardware to draw the graphics; PCs had super fast CPUs and did everything in software while the video hardware consisted of a framebuffer.

>> No.2194476

>>2194407
The D stands for Dick. Which OP sucks.

>> No.2194482
File: 383 KB, 370x528, disgust.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2194482

>>2193641
>32X Blackthorne

>> No.2194495

>>2194356
The general consensus is that the changes are better overall. Have you ever played it? The music and sounds are even redistributed as a pk3 file to use with most sourceports. The changes are also minimal and new enemies are added. Overall it seems like an update. Definitely not a sloppy port.

>> No.2194506

>>2194495
Your opinion isn't general consensus, tripfaggot.

>> No.2194508

>>2194506
Go on doomworld or something. Or go look at the psx doom TC. This isn't just me saying this.

>> No.2194534

>>2194508
>Go to a thread specifically about PSX Doom to find people that like PSX Doom

Ok retard, well thanks for making it easy to filter you.

>> No.2194536

>>2194495
>Have you ever played it?

Have you? It has slowdown out the fucking ass.

>> No.2194571

>>2194536
You can play it on your PC, anon. With a modern source port.

>> No.2194587

>>2194536
Playing it on release, the slowdown was comparable to what you'd get on a good pc at the time. So I'd say that's an excellent port.

>> No.2194691

>>2193641

That blasted Richards.

>> No.2194710

>>2194336
A printer made 20 years after the fact can do a lot of things. You have to remember that even 'dumb' tech is still much more powerful these days just due to the bare minimum increasing significantly.

>> No.2194713

>>2194395
Funny, I often hear Doom 64 cited as the 'true' Doom 3.

>> No.2194739

>>2194587
PSX Doom renderer runs at 30hz, game ticks runs at 15.

>> No.2194757

>>2194739
Oh and some facts pertaining to the definitive version comment.

>Many animations had frames cut, making them seem choppier, one apparent example being rockets fired from the rocket launcher.
>The screen resolution was changed from 320x200 to 256x240, which is stretched to roughly 292x240
>All weapon sprites have been reduced in size. The super shotgun suffered in particular, and was redrawn for the American and European versions of Final Doom, giving it a "sleeker" appearance.
>There is no Nightmare! skill level.
>Though the back of the box touts a "high framerate," the game in fact runs slower than its PC counterpart by design, targeting a 30 Hz framerate for rendering and 15 Hz game logic. Empirical testing shows few levels are actually capable of reaching the target framerate, most averaging in the 20s, and a few dipping as low as the single digits during intense gameplay. This must be measured against other competing console ports of the time, however, which had in most cases significantly worse framerate issues.

Music is subjective (i personally love dark ambient music) but there's no doubt it can completely change the feel of the game, which would provide a different experience than the original.

>> No.2194785

>>2194757
There's definitely downsides to it, I'm not arguing that it's better in every way. I'm just offering a counterpoint to that one poster saying it's a shit port. A ton of work went into psx doom, and it shows. It's a very faithfulport with plenty of additions. Imo the best way to play vanilla doom is with the psx lightING changes and music pk3 and deh files. Again that is preference though and I definitely see your point. At release for those with a average computer, this was the best way to play doom.

>> No.2194790

>>2194757
Also you have to remember at the time most people turned the resolution down in doom. I remember it being significantly chopper on my pc at the time than on the psx. The games requirements, while modest, we're still out of the reach of most consumer pcs. Those framer ates were perfectly acceptable. Also when playing on a crt it's not really possible to notice the animation differences and lower sprite resolution. Additionally the rocket launcher is only missing the blast back animation. The major change is replacing the archviles with a hook sprite. And cyber demons with multiple spiders. Those are negatives against the psx doom. For the most part it was better than playing on a pc unless you had a 2k+ dollar machine.

>> No.2194804

>>2194790

Doom didn't have resolution controls like modern games. The only way to increase performance was to shrink the gameplay screen.

You didn't have to have a super high end computer to run doom decently. That was one of the impressive things about doom. I was running a 386DX with 4mb of ram and it ran pretty well considering the hardware.

>> No.2194806

>>2194790
Never once experienced even an iota of lag or slowdown on a 486 with 8mb RAM. Stop talking out your arse.

>> No.2194808

>>2194806

You could have run Doom II fine with that rig.

He's obviously too young to remember.

>> No.2194814

>>2194804
>>2194806
I'm not tasking out my ass. You had to keep the resolution down to have reasonable framerates. Also for a 486dx it was like 400 for the processor alone. On top of that you would get sub 20fps framerates with reduced resolution on vanilla doom. Let alone doom 2 or final doom. I think your remembering wrong.

>> No.2194819

>>2194806
A 486 with 8mb RAM wasn't a standard processor back then, but still it didn't cost anywhere near what he's saying.

>> No.2194825

>>2194814

I remember a low detail mode, not really a resolution control.

Doom 2 ran fine on a 486DX with 8mb of Ram. Are you thinking of a 486SX maybe?

>> No.2194829

>>2194819

Doom 1 ran on 4MB or Ram. You needed more for Doom 2.

The 486 had been around since 1990. The pentium came out not long after the first doom was released.

Also remember that not all 486 processors were the same. The 486SX had a disabled FPU and was slower than a similar clockspeed 386DX in many cases.

>> No.2194834

>>2194825
You could reduce the rendering resolution but it would not stretch to fill the screen. Also the 486dx gets an average of 16fps when coupled with a voodoo 3 at standard resolution on doom. The standard res is not the max resolution either so the screen is cut off. And I can't prove it cost that much thas just what I recall paying.

>> No.2194836

>>2194808
It played every DOS game fine, up to Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior. It couldn't handle pure 3D games such as Quake and Unreal, and was obsolete by 1996.

The idiot with the trip is baiting for responses. I won't bother replying any further.

>> No.2194839

>>2194834

>voodoo 3

Video cards made pretty much no difference with Doom. Rendering was done by the CPU.

The 486DX came out in many clock speeds. Saying they all got the exact same FPS is incorrect.

>> No.2194841

>>2194713
I never played it, so I'll never know. But I liked Doom 3 pretty much. It was very different from 1 and 2, but it was still a nice game on its own.

>> No.2194843

>>2194841

>so I'll never know

Why don't you just....play it?

>> No.2194845

>>2194841
>so I don't know
Dammit.

>> No.2195964

>>2194331
literally because consoles are shit compared to what it was designed to play on.

>>2194347
>The ps1 port is superior in every way though

I'll agree that I like the atmosphere better, but it'sactually technically inferior. Many areas were redone because of the PS1 being incapable of rendering large enough spaces (specifically, this is manifested in the maps being "flatter" -- the height differences were nerfed in many areas. Some rooms were shrunk too or even wholly cut)

>> No.2195965

>>2195964
>combining the word literally with a metaphor
Wow.

>> No.2195992

>>2193641
Not as bad as JALECO end labels

Fuck you city connection

>> No.2196003

>>2194834
>voodoo3 in a 486
u wot m8?

>> No.2196230

I first played Doom2 on a Pentium60 in early 1995. I was simply blown away and never recovered. Don't care for games at all but Doom is still one of the reasons why having a computer is exciting.
Lowest machine I ran Doom on was a 486 Dx40 and it sucked - although it had a VesaLocal bus gfx card. Timedemo on a Dx2/66 was around 27 frames per second ... so below the 35.
The best vintage CPU for Doom is a K5 as it is extremely efficient and runs up to 116 Mhz fast.
The ports were underwhelming because the hardware sucked for it - Doom is a "per pixel renderer" and porting it to a specialized hardware is bitter as it requires a minimum ALU/bandwith combo. The Jaguar version was coded by Carmack and goes to extreme lengths to make it happen... Carmack was probably swearing 24/7 because he had a huge load of assembly code to tweak and keep track of.
Both PSX and Jaguar version run at 15fps vs. 35 in the original. Former runs slower because some events(e.g.: animations updates) happen at 3.75 Hz instead of 4.375 Hz.

>> No.2196240
File: 1.18 MB, 2560x3500, Official Sega Saturn Magazine - january #15 (1997) - Page 28.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2196240

>>2194331
Can you please tell me more about how Saturn Doom was sabotaged? I remember it was horrendously bad, but thought it was just lazy coding.

>> No.2196242
File: 1.50 MB, 2560x3500, Official Sega Saturn Magazine - january #15 (1997) - Page 29.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2196242

>>2196240
pt 2

>> No.2196248

>>2196240
Love the scans - so many memories. Played doom on and off on a Saturn at a friends house.

>> No.2196590

>>2194331
Come on your forgetting the real Doom 3: Doom 64

>> No.2196608

>>2196590
Doom 64 disqualifies as being Doom 3 for me, because it's missing the most fun enemies.

>> No.2196628

>>2196608
Many other things about it sucked too(partially stupid monster design especially Mancubus and low detail monster models), but overall it was an interesting edition to the Doom universe.

>> No.2196640

>>2196608

but it has the best level design in the entire series.

>> No.2196660

>>2194336
Are you lying or just retarded? I own a DOOM cart for SNES and it has sound and music and all that.

>> No.2196663

>>2196640
True - I really liked the ones that made heavier use of macros. The teleporting key puzzle was pretty awesome.

>> No.2196689

>>2194331
How was the Saturn version sabotaged?

>> No.2196698
File: 21 KB, 359x316, 468.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2196698

>>2194336
>i know the snes doom didn't have sound because of the actual limitations of the machine...
Nigga what

>> No.2196712

>>2194336
Not only did it have sound a handful of the music tracks in the game are superior to the PC versions.

>> No.2196715

What this my niggers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygIZoTyTygc

>> No.2196716

>>2194336
You smartphone has more computer power than the last fucking space shuttle. It can even run the programming in an emulator. Miniturization is hard.

>> No.2196717

>>2196715
*watch this my black skin color men

>> No.2196746

>>2196717
*watch this my urban criminals

>> No.2196756

>>2194331

Even in 1993, PCs had vastly superior tech to all of the consoles. As such, there had to be major compromises for DOOM to run on any given console, but this was compounded by many of the ports not being done very well.

>> No.2198375

>>2194834
>Also the 486dx gets an average of 16fps when coupled with a voodoo 3
That is the most laughable thing I have ever heard.

There were certainly no fucking Voodoo cards around when Doom came out, and if any card made any difference, maybe the Tseng Labs ET4000 but I doubt it.

I remember that I had to reduce the display area on my 386, but once I upgraded to a 486SX with 4M of RAM, I could play it at full size without any slowdown (with the status bar; I can't remember if the original Doom releases allowed you to disable the status bar and have a larger display area, but I don't remember doing it). DX versus SX wouldn't have made any difference for Doom; all the math is fixed point anyway.

>> No.2198390

>>2196717
Please keep your fascism off /vr/, thank you.

>> No.2198393

>>2194331
Nothing wrong with the PSX music.

Jaguar has music during cutscenes, they were just lazy to fix the music during gameplay

Also don't forget the SNES version.

>> No.2198681

>>2194829
SX sucks, DX deluxe.

>> No.2200442

>>2194829
You're mistaken. The only difference between the DX and SX models of the 486 was the presence of an FPU on the DX models. That's it. Now the 386DX and SX, those were quite different than one another. The 386SX used a 16-bit bus, and thus ran 32-bit code at around half the speed. As for 16-bit code, a good 286 at the same clockspeed could outpace it in some cases.

>> No.2200446

>>2200442
Also, Doom didn't have any FPU support whatsoever. It was purely based on integer math.

>> No.2200454

>>2198375
I believe he's refering to a benchmark that comes up if you Google doom 486dx bechmark. It does show it running at 16fps with those specs.

>> No.2200478

>>2194825
I actually ran doom on a 486sx @ 25 mhz with 4 MB of RAM. DOS version, of course, boot disked as usual. I do not miss those days.

>> No.2200508
File: 1.62 MB, 208x368, 1415493727287.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2200508

>>2193641
Shit game

>> No.2200536

>>2200508
Thank you mods for deleting this b8.

>> No.2200561

I like the music of the 3DO port. It`s a bit like a mixture of the original dos music and the dark ambient from the Playstation game. But that`s pretty much the only redeeming feature.

>> No.2200571

>>2196715
If it wasn't for the guitar riff being a bit off i wouldn't be able to tell he was playing on an N64.

Is this the first near 1:1 port of the game on a retro console?

>> No.2200620

>>2194331
PS1 Doom was designed to be more horror than any other version, so that's why it got new sound effects and an ambient soundtrack. Those aren't flaws. Its real flaws are scaled down levels and no Arch vile because of memory limitations.

>> No.2200634

>>2196640
Doesn't hold a candle to Doom 1's.

>> No.2200636
File: 103 KB, 1053x749, vr-op.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2200636

>>2193641
happy now?

>> No.2200838

>>2200636
>genesis is still below the logo
>32x logo now looks like a sticker

5/10 for the try

>> No.2202245

>>2196756
Should have had Carmack do it back then. He was probably fairly busy though working on newer shit though.

>Be Carmack
>Hire a team to port W3D to iOS
>Beta version looks like shit
>Dev team says it'll take two months to make it right
>Tell whole dev team to hit the bricks
>Flawlessly port the game alone in four days

>> No.2202249
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2202249

>>2193873
>ocd
>games not even in alphabetical order.

Jimmies thoroughly unrustled.

>> No.2202640

>>2202245
Carmack has always been in a league of his own. Would be interesting to give him a problem and watch him solve it while giving some hints on his train of thought. Same would be cool with Ken Silverman. Many clever dudes out there but there are very few who can put it all together like these two and have the "luxury" of being known by an audience.

>> No.2202816

>>2200636
:3

>> No.2202841

I think it would have been better to port Doom to the Sega CD instead of the 32X.

>> No.2202848

>>2202841
That would just be the SNES version again: good music and slideshow gameplay.

>> No.2202893

>>2202249
They're organized by lead musician's last name.

>> No.2203048
File: 1.50 MB, 2560x1920, 20150127_194209.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2203048

>>2193641
square is just the worst

>> No.2203057

>>2203048
I'd put them up the other way.

A tiny little company name being the wrong way up looks far less inconsistent than the title being the wrong way around.

>> No.2203059

>>2202848
What about a CD 32X port?

>> No.2203149

>>2203059
That's theoretically a good idea; except that the CD-32X thing in general is retarded. When you get to that point, you might as well just have it 32x and program the music right in the first place.

>> No.2203157

>>2202841
>I think it would have been better to port Doom to the Sega CD instead of the 32X.

The scaling chip wouldn't be helpful there - too much shit to do - and the MD alone wouldn't be good enough to drive all of Doom (it can just about do Wolfenstein, at absolute wizard level coding).

>>2203059
>What about a CD 32X port?

If they only used the CD part to load the levels into RAM and do absolute nothing else but play CD music and maybe sound effects, then it MIGHT work. But using the Sega CD with the 32x was damn near impossible due to how they were each designed, one nearly locks out the other.

Like that guy said, getting the 32x version right would've been less problem and gotten more impressive results. It is known that the game was a rushed port to meet the release date. If they didn't rush it, the game would've had way better music, and possibly better performance. But is still would've missed a lot of levels and monsters because you can only fit so much in a 4mbyte cart.

>> No.2203165

>>2202848
I've honestly never been a fan of SNES Doom music. It sounds like someone trying to play guitar riffs with horns.

>> No.2203170

>>2203157
SNES Doom uses an FX chip to help with the 3d graphics. And while the result is commendable, it is not pretty. There's no way the Sega CD could do much better. They chose the right platform for it, they just shat out a rushed product.

>> No.2203184

>>2203165
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59inRAWPaVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIrzrBVrQv8

It's pretty good. Its the best contemporary rendition of the sound track as far as I know (seeing as how most others didn't even get it).

>> No.2203185

>>2203048
Dude. Flip your games around. The fronts are supposed to face to the right, not the left.

>> No.2203190

>>2203184
*best console rendition