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/vr/ - Retro Games

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2192701 No.2192701[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

/vr/'s fixation on CRTs is unhealthy.

Just get Framemeister and the picture quality will be much better on your lcd tv than on any crt ever.

>> No.2192702

Except I hate blocky square pixels. Nice shill thread, though.

>> No.2192704

>>2192702
Aw, come on chap!
For only $49.99 you too could own a brand new Framemeister™®

>> No.2192706

Or I could just emulate for free.

>> No.2192707

>Display lag

lel

>> No.2192710

>>2192707
The input lag is minimal. I have most of my retro consoles hooked up through my framemeister mini and I don't notice it. On top of that I mostly play shmups. I'm not half bad either I can 1 cc MM and Ikaruga. And most others.

>> No.2192712

>>2192704
If they were, I might buy one. In reality they're like $400. $49.99 is more like what you pay for an RGB to YUV transcoder with no upscaler.

>> No.2192715

>>2192701
Hearing about the XRGB Framemeister actually got me interested plasma or later CRT's like the Sony WEGA series that accepts HDMI instead of my current SD CRT that only supports up to S-video.

>> No.2192719

>>2192710

>Oh, I don't notice it at all

lel 2, Son of lel

>> No.2192730

If you wanna be a newfag hipster and play retro games on your shitty lcd tvs with $300 upscalers be my guest but those of us from the old school know that CRT will always be the best,swivel on it faggot.

>> No.2192738

>>2192719
> implying you'd notice 17ms
Go away with your shitposting.
Also in response to OP the only better way to play on an HD TV without input lag is with a wii hooked up through a non scaling wii to HDMI adapter. That way you get a native progressive output that the tv doesn't have to deinterlace otherwise the framemeister is the best solution for retro gaming on an hdtv

>> No.2192742

>>2192738
How is that better than a GNU/Linux PC connected via HDMI with all "enhancements" turned off?

>> No.2192759

>>2192701
>Just get Framemeister and the picture quality will be much better on your lcd tv than on any crt ever.

Boot up Sonic 2 two player mode on your Framemeister and post a video of it, then I'll be sold.

>> No.2192782

>>2192759
Sonic 2 is a bad example. It doesn't look as good as it makes heavy use of artifacts to create effects and transparencies. For the most part games look phenomenal though. But stuff like the OP posted isn't going to look as good. The better way to play it would be through retroarch hooked up via a modern device.
>>2192742
Much easier to set up and use. Cheaper price. Quicker boot times. Better controller support. Just ease of use alol around. There's no reason not to do that when the performance and IQ is identical for the most part.

>> No.2192790

And how does it fare with early 3D games?

>> No.2192794

>>2192782
>Sonic 2 is a bad example. It doesn't look as good as it makes heavy use of artifacts to create effects and transparencies.
It's a very good example for showing one of the pitfalls of several upscalers.

It's not about how the game looks, it's the fact that Sonic 2 switches from 240p in single player to 480i for the splitscreen mode. Any game that does this will work just the same; I hear Silent Hill works well to show it off as well.

>> No.2192797

Why even play on a TV at that point where you'd get the same quality via emulation?

>> No.2192805

>>2192701
>better on your lcd tv than on any crt ever.
>literally zero LCDs have ever had black levels or motion as low or as sharp as CRTs.
>better

>> No.2192808

>>2192782
>Sonic 2 is a bad example. It doesn't look as good as it makes heavy use of artifacts to create effects and transparencies.
That's the definition of a good example.

We're talking about image quality and shit here, if it can't handle the harder to display games why the fuck would suggest it? If those artifacts aren't present to make the image look proper then it's going to fuck just about every other game as well for textures etc...

>Better controller support.
Than a PC? No.

>> No.2192812

Enjoy resolution timeouts that are 5-7 seconds :^)

I sold my FM for 460 and bought a pvm 20L5 for 150. Best exchange I've ever done because ps1 is literally unenjoyable on framemeister. Dont get me wrong! It produces amazing visuals but its just not a perfect device.

>> No.2192817
File: 1.03 MB, 1647x989, 1392672357002.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2192817

>> No.2192820

>>2192817
left side is accurate with scanlines. Its so stupid for someone to think composite is how retro was intended lol... It is merely the only technology NA had so we couldn't do scart rgb and push the retros to their limits.

>> No.2192825

>>2192808
>>2192794
I mean it looks bad through an upscaler. Like I said some games look great and some look terrible. It's really a toss up and a matter of personal preference. I'm not advocating strongly one way or the other.
>>2192808
Also yes it had bettee controller support than Linux in terms of Bluetooth controllers. Which most people are going to prefer. By this I don't mean wider range of support but rather a better way to sync that goes much smoother. Also any HID input will work. So it still is fairly broad.

>> No.2192828

>>2192812
>>2192820
Also the OP example is an excellent way of showing that the developers often did intend for there to be specific artifacts. And yes the timeouts are very annoying. But manageable most of the time. As I did it isn't a perfect solution. I usually just use retroarch unless I'm playing specific games.

>> No.2192851

>>2192820
Everything about that post is wrong.

>> No.2192857
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2192857

>> No.2192870

>>2192857
Right side is way too blocky and looks like shit.

>> No.2192873

>>2192870
Hope this is b8

>> No.2192876

>>2192857
>implying blocks are supposed to look better than smoothed curves

>> No.2192878

>>2192701

I never upgraded to HD tvs so I only have CRT

>> No.2192887
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2192887

>>2192878
Same here, both TV and monitor are CRT.

#CRT4LIFE

>> No.2192913
File: 198 KB, 890x355, composite_vs_rgb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2192913

>>2192870

>> No.2192918

>>2192782
>Sonic 2 is a bad example. It doesn't look as good as it makes heavy use of artifacts to create effects and transparencies. For the most part games look phenomenal though. But stuff like the OP posted isn't going to look as good. The better way to play it would be through retroarch hooked up via a modern device.

Actually my point was that Sonic 2 split-screen mode corrupts the picture and locks up the Framemeister, making it require a reboot.

But I could also mention the 15-second wait for the picture to resync every time you pause in Castlevania SOTN for Saturn.

>> No.2192920
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2192920

>>2192851

Fucking idiot.

>> No.2192927
File: 258 KB, 1024x903, screenshot_0001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2192927

But emulation is always "better than the real thing" because it lets you genuinely create the smoothing effects that the original hardware combinations mimic but fail to achieve

>> No.2192930

>>2192927
>the way it's meant to be played (tm)

>> No.2192932
File: 1.53 MB, 2560x1920, Nemo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2192932

Sup Fggts

>> No.2192936

Some things to note.
The Framemeister does have a lot of lag. It's 18 - 24ms added on top of your TV. This isn't a probably if you don''t have a shit TV though. Unless you're looking for a no lag set up.

The Framemeister can't play games that switch between 240p and 480i. Just can't.


The good though is it can play dreamcast no problem with the right adapter.
-Looks amazing.
-Basically has near no incompatibility with 240p sources except for Sonic 2 player being the main exception.
-nice scanline generator for 720p


The other xrgb units can do linedoubling if you want no lag. And with the right TV it is actually no lag as with a CRT. And they don't have that long of a sync drop with 240p and 480i. But their inputs are far more tricky and scaling to 1080p is meh.

>> No.2192937

Me and my wife ...

>> No.2192938

>>2192932
I love this fucking game.

>> No.2192939

>>2192937
pics please

>> No.2192940

>>2192937
I'm sorry to hear your wife dumped you for a Retron, man.

>> No.2192941

I'm in a bind. I think pure RGB look terrible. It's flat, blocky and can make things look a mess.

But I've yet to see a fliter than looks anything like how I remember the games looked on CRTs.

The best replica I've seen is "You must win the game", but I've yet to see what that would look like with 16-bit graphics. And I've also yet to see any filter that good on anything else.

>> No.2192942

>>2192701
This does look like it could give all of my badly aged games a fresh retro feel.

>> No.2192950

>>2192701
My composite doesn't look anything like that, though.

But even so the first option looks better for me.

>> No.2192970
File: 375 KB, 2560x1920, capture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2192970

>>2192932
Not sharp enough, get some super RGB cables for that shit bro.

>> No.2192972

>>2192941
>The best replica I've seen is "You must win the game"
Oh then what you're looking for is bilinear filtering with some light scanlines and a some curvature.

That being said, that game is supposed to be emulating an oldschool CRT monitor using EGA and shit for computers not a typical TV CRT.

>> No.2192983

>>2192913
>combining /pol/ with the hipster buzzword

Noice

>> No.2193005

>>2192782

>Sonic 2 is a bad example because it proves me wrong

I am amused

>> No.2193069

I still play emulation on lcd with no filter
I can notice slight drag on the moving pixels, but otherwise, i notice no response delay or anything

but I like my tube tvs
wish I had a crt monitor sometimes

>> No.2193175

>preferring fuzzy curviness over sharp blocks with scanlines

I didn't think /vr/ was this retarded... I think you're all just stupid poorfags that can't afford mods or rgb cables or an rgb monitor. Enjoy settling for less with composite.

>> No.2193190

It always just makes me think that /vr/ spends more time worrying about how their games look than actually playing them.

>> No.2193196

>>2192701
For that kind of money I expect it to cure cancer.

>> No.2193213

Here in my country, they don't sell especializad electronics for such things like having better image or switchers or stuff.

But they sell CRT so...

>> No.2193938

>>2192918
As a framemeister user (current situation doesn't permit CRTs) this irks the shit out of me. Even if for the mest time it's just missing out on the boot-up screen of a game (although there is the reset button)

>> No.2193942

>>2192701
would love to if it didn't cost an arm and a leg. have to settle for my lkv362a for now

>> No.2193950

>>2193190
I probably do. I don't play videogames as much as I think about getting perfect setups and buying more games.

>> No.2193956

If I wanted super sharp and blocky pixels, I'd just emulate without a filter. Instead of spending whatever ridiculous price the framemeister is, I bought a $20 Trinitron off of craigslist, and every game looks phenomenal.

>> No.2193969

>>2193956
This

>> No.2194000

>>2192701
perhaps I am wrong, but I think devs intentended us to see Mega Man's arms in our crts as "curved", and not with blocky 90 degrees outlines.

>> No.2194039

Noone here has mentioned S-Video.

I find that S-Video is a great option on a CRT display. It offers a much sharper image than composite and its very easy to find a proper TV that has S-video inputs. I grew up playing retro games, so they look a bit off when they appear "too clear" or blocky. Most of the time as a kid, I was using RF to play them. I find that S-video is a nice medium.

The SNES, Saturn, Playstation, Playstation 2, gamecube, n64, and Xbox can all output s-video with an inexpensive cable. The Genesis, TG-16(PCE) and Neo Geo require a not that complicated mod. You're kind of SOL on the NES though as its VDP isn't capable of outputting S-Video.

>> No.2194040

>>2193956

Plus like mentioned above, every kind of processing you do adds lag. This is a deal buster for those of us that like games that actually require skill like shooters and such. RPGs would be fine.

>> No.2194042

>>2192878
>>2192887

>not getting a 200 pound 34" trinitron CRT HDTV

>> No.2194064

>>2194040
He said emulate without a filter not with one.
Also processing adds lag but so long as the system handles it's processing in sufficient time and syncs the frames then you won't have any issues.

>> No.2194070

>>2194000
That's why those devs made Megaman 9 and 10 with curves in mind.

>> No.2194071

It's subjective.

>> No.2194080

>>2194040
The framemeister is within tolerance limits, though.
Or you could go XRGB-3 (on a PC CRT but then what's the point) which has a linedoubling mode with no lag introduced from scaling (Input is analog 15khz output is analog 31khz basically)

>> No.2194084

>>2194039
Being europoor I've never felt S-VIDEO worth it with easily accessible RGB. Also S-VIDEO outputs on graphics cards long had me believing it was even worse than composite, kek... (how did they make it look so bad?)

>> No.2194087
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2194087

>>2194084
It depends on your drivers and card. You can output composite, S-Video or component signals.

>> No.2194092

>>2194084
Its only for amerifats really,we have glorious scart RGB