>Made a console with superior hardware than NES >Still less buttons than NES >Pause button at the console instead of at the controller What's the meaning of this bullshit?

File: 68 KB, 1440x933, Sega_Master_System_02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Jan 20 19:39:42 2015 No.2189850 [Reply] [Original]

>Made a console with superior hardware than NES
>Still less buttons than NES
>Pause button at the console instead of at the controller
What's the meaning of this bullshit?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 19:41:00 2015 No.2189854 Not like there was a standard layout during that time.

Anonymous Tue Jan 20 20:02:09 2015 No.2189897
File: 9 KB, 250x199, obsolete design.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why would you not just put the dpad and the stick next to each other

Assuming you HAVE to use the three prong design, why wouldn't you you the stick on the left and the pad in the middle so you hold it like a normal controller for 90% of games instead of the other way around

Anonymous Tue Jan 20 20:27:37 2015 No.2189953

>>2189897
At the time games mostly used dpads. If the analog stick didn't become big, the controller would've been shitty because it prioritized it. I think the N64 has a fine design. If you want to play 2D games, hold the left and right prongs. If you want to play 3D games, hold the middle and right prongs. Very few games make use of all three at once.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 20:31:29 2015 No.2189960 >>2189854 But it was released after NES. Therefore they could copy that layout.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 20:34:43 2015 No.2189965 File: 294 KB, 1600x1200, SEGA-Master-System-II-Power-Base-PAL-Controller-017.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Looks flimsy as shit on the inside.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 20:52:02 2015 No.2189990 >>2189965 Is this one of Drakon's mods?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 21:01:53 2015 No.2190001 >>2189990 No bukkaki >>2189965 Looks pretty sturdy to me. The wires are crimped and multi colored. The boards are supported well too. Lot of time went into that controller.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 21:22:54 2015 No.2190024 >>2190001 >Looks pretty sturdy to me. Hardly. Needs more glue.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 21:30:26 2015 No.2190030 >>2190024 Where do you see any glue? It's all screws and solder.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 21:31:05 2015 No.2190031 >>2189850 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA04jJPKkgU ASS

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 21:49:38 2015 No.2190056 >>2190030 Exactly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 21:57:40 2015 No.2190068 >>2190024 >glue >not holding electronics together with dried semen

Anonymous Tue Jan 20 22:17:06 2015 No.2190091

>>2189965
The SMS controlelr was well built, like you'd expect from any first party console up until the 4th gen.

The problem is that it's small and shaped odd. It relaly hurts to play long sessions if you have adult sized hands.

The D-pad is kinda awkward if you'ren ot used to it, too.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 20 22:20:12 2015 No.2190098 >>2190091 >gaijin sized hands ftfy

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 04:44:51 2015 No.2190680

>>2189965
Never broke one. I was a bad rage kid. Used to smash them against a wall after the inevitable psycho fox deaths. SMS pads were tough as shit. Actually put a snes control through a dry wall once. It laughed at me then punched me in the face afterwards. In comparison, Ive ripped a PS1 contoller clean in half after failing a perfect no-save Res Evil 2 run. Died on the last boss like a fucking chump. That really resurfaced the the 10y.o. hulk-mode in me that one did.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 05:13:48 2015 No.2190717 >>2189850 SMS is pure garbage,but because it has the sega logo on it people kid themselves into thinking its a good system.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 05:18:31 2015 No.2190721 The SMS is god tier, pity about the sound chip though.

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 05:23:10 2015 No.2190725

>>2190721
The PSG soundchip was definitely not as good, but when handled in the right hands it sounded fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=030v_rRWgdo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0P13VsaWU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQxXW6gm_yY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtoHy2lI54M

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 06:01:38 2015 No.2190749 File: 18 KB, 427x396, pacofacepalm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2190717 b8

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 09:47:38 2015 No.2190908 File: 638 KB, 2073x1467, VX7Z6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I LIKE the SMS, but there just aren't many good games for it. A lot of the available library is just dull generics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 10:08:23 2015 No.2190924 SMS was a great console, but it was commercialized years after the NES conquered ALL the market.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 10:52:48 2015 No.2190949 >>2190749 Not bait,im being serious, the library of games is just garbage,its got about 6 games worth playing,not really sega's fault they did try but they just didnt have a chance against the famicom/nes,

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 10:55:55 2015 No.2190954 sms had a way worse library than the nes, but at the time the arcade ports were cool

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 11:13:58 2015 No.2190973

>>2190725
In japan the master system had an fm chip. Since it was optional in the mark 3 and that was compatible with the sms some games had two sound options. International consoles didnt have the fm chip but apparently in a lot of games the fm code was still there (even after localisation). There is a guy who built an FM addon for the sms which lets you get the fm music for games that have it enabled.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 11:19:35 2015 No.2190979 File: 239 KB, 364x328, url.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2190973 Also someone's working on a Power base Converter replacement board with an integrated FM chip these days. I'll probably end up buying one of these to complement my Genesis.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 11:21:14 2015 No.2190980 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz_I44ZbZmI The Master System would've blown the NES sound out of the water if the FM chip had been standard in all models.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 11:26:29 2015 No.2190983 >>2189850 >Superior Hardware >Literally incapable of sprite mirroring Nice try, Tonka.

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 11:36:59 2015 No.2190987

>>2190983
>max 16x16 sprites compared to 8x16 on the NES
>max 32 colors on screen compared to 25 on the NES
>max 16 colors per sprite compared to 4 (!) on the NES
>64 colors palette compared to 53 on the NES
>supports tile flipping unlike the NES
>supports parallax scrolling unlike the NES: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Parallax_scrolling_example_scene.gif
>supports split screen scrolling

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 11:54:20 2015 No.2191018

>>2189897
You also have the left prong + middle prong for some shooters (unless you go southpaw and walk using the C-buttons).
Using all three prongs at once would be nonsensical...

Pokemon Stadium actually uses all three positions though if you count the minigames. The Ekans minigame uses the left prong + middle prong. You aim using the D-Pad and throw using the stick.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 11:55:22 2015 No.2191021 >>2190725 Dat Blues.

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 12:59:41 2015 No.2191091

If anything, having the pause button on the nes would have made more sense. Well the famicom at least, seeing as it had those short ass wires for the controllers.

Small japanese homes combined with people already having the nes practically on their knees?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 14:24:07 2015 No.2191181 >>2189953 >2D games Except the N64 was designed and marketed with only 3D games in mind, apparently no one told the guy who was designing the controller this, and making half of the controller unusable is not good design

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 14:33:55 2015 No.2191189 >>2190979 I actually meant that one, I got confused about it being for the master system.

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 14:58:27 2015 No.2191220

>>2191018
I think the logic was that all three grips would be used. In practice almost no game uses left + middle, especially not by default, and they probably should have foreseen that. Even on newer dual stick controllers it's tough to think of a single game that uses left pad + right stick.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 15:08:31 2015 No.2191228 >>2190987 Most improtantly >no good games compared to NES' good games

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 15:09:23 2015 No.2191230 >>2191220 I think they assumed some games would use the left and right prongs, excluding the middle

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 16:35:42 2015 No.2191356

>>2191230
in that case you just put the analog stick next to the dpad like the 3DS and every other controller. Using right hand on middle prong is the only thing justifying its existence. Or you just put sticks on both sides, which would have been the prescient thing to do.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 16:43:43 2015 No.2191358 >>2191228 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmMCmZkXrMQ

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 16:47:07 2015 No.2191363 >>2189850 Objectively the top 5 MS games >Sonic the hedgehog >Fantasy zone >phantasy star >world grand prix >Action fighter NES fags will never know the joy of MS.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 17:08:51 2015 No.2191379 >>2189850 >superior hardware than the nes Which is completely ruined by that horrendous sound chip.

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 17:37:10 2015 No.2191417

>>2191379
Every pre CD quality sound chip is acquired taste. You just don't realize it because likely you've grown up with Nintendo consoles and have grown accustomed to their sounds from a young age. Not to mention every system having great soundtracks and sound effects in some games and terrible sound in others.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 17:41:38 2015 No.2191425 >>2191363 + Dragon Crystal

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 17:51:36 2015 No.2191436

>>2191417
>having less channels of sound is an aquired taste
I had both systems as a child, but I always noticed the nes having better audio. I've never heard a single master system game with a truly great soundtrack and it's due to the lack of capability. Sonic 2 comes close. I've really come to appreciate my glorius fm synth mod. Now THAT makes some great music.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 18:36:25 2015 No.2191509 >>2191356 Well the 3DS warn't a thing back then... >>2191230 Plenty of games do that. It's the second most common configuration in my experience.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 18:49:48 2015 No.2191541 >>2191228 We talk about the hardware, not the library.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 18:51:25 2015 No.2191545 File: 15 KB, 400x486, tumblr_static_alex_kidd_-_hamburger.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2191363 >No Alex Kidd Seriously?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 18:53:02 2015 No.2191549 >>2191379 The sound chip was fine, unlike with Genesis which was horrible and only Sega and a few companies could make good results.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 19:58:57 2015 No.2191692 >>2191549 Are you seriously shit talking the ym2612? There is way more good music than bad. Way more. Yea, some companies like EA turned it into a fart machine, but there were a lot of 3rd party games that sounded outstanding.

Anonymous Wed Jan 21 20:30:45 2015 No.2191753

>>2191356
They just didn't know. They didn't know what would be coming and wanted to be ready.

People seem to look at the N64 pad in a very revisionist sense, that it wasn't a very early 3D controller and that it came out at the same time as the PSX/Saturn 3D controllers. The N64 was the first console controller specifically designed to support 3D games, particularly with an analog stick. There was nothing else to go on. And when you think about it, moving with the D-pad and aiming with the stick wouldn't be that different from how KB+M eventually came to be (shooters-wise).

People seem to forget that the other 3D controllers came out 2 years afterward, with plenty of time to see how 3D had gone and where to take it from there, and that no one had ever put an analog stick and a D-pad on a controller before, and that even if analog sticks weren't really new, Nintendo was still doing new things with it. There were bound to be a mistake or two along the way.

I will say that I wish they had put two more buttons on the left side to match the A and B buttons though. It would have made using D-pad for movement in Perfect Dark and such more reasonable. As it is, you almost never see games not use the right-hand side, simply because that's where all of the buttons are located.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 21 20:33:43 2015 No.2191759 >>2191545 Janken ruins it.

Anonymous Thu Jan 22 00:54:06 2015 No.2192129

>>2191753
This.

Analog sticks were new to most consumers at the time; by introducing a controller with 3 prongs, Nintendo mitigated the risk of players who might be turned off to switching to an analog stick. The controller looked like you could play your games the 'traditional' way with a D-pad. While several games didn't allow you to use the D-Pad, most notably the flagship launch title Super Mario 64, there were also many games that offered it as an option.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 22 01:10:26 2015 No.2192148 >>2191549 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BISQ1A4VFxg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eja9CQ8PUfc Yeah sure mate.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 22 01:15:43 2015 No.2192154 >>2191692 >Yea, some companies like EA turned it into a fart machine Rob Hubbard's stuff was pretty rad IMO, not top tier, but good stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63ZVI_Ih0xE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyL0XaTldqM

Anonymous Thu Jan 22 04:10:39 2015 No.2192405

>>2192129
Yes, I remember the first times playing the n64 I would be amazed at and testing sone simple things like move the stick to the half and walk, move it to the end and run, and found out most people did their little experiments with the analog stick. Anyway it's curious how sony nailed it with a design that made sense for the next 20 years some years later. Also having two sticks was quite forward thinking, I remember some games used the second one to accelerate/brake but overall it wasn't that relevant. Then m+kb became standard on pc (after years playing quake1 with the keyboard I was blown away with quake3 on a cybercafe, and totally immersed especially thanks tothe controls, asking myself why didn't i think about it before). Later the dreamcast came put with only one stick and pc games like mdk2, or quake3 got ported to the dc with a really painful adaptation of kb+m to controller. 2 stick isn't even optimal but better than what you had to do in oitrigger for example.
Still credit goes to nintendo for being the first (sega for triggers and sony for dual analog). It was really a transitional era and no one knew if 3d was gonna be that prominent (the saturn hardware made a higher bet on 2d for example).

Anonymous Thu Jan 22 04:43:32 2015 No.2192438

>>2190973
>International consoles didnt have the fm chip but apparently in a lot of games the fm code was still there (even after localisation).
There is a list here.
http://www.smspower.org/forums/8714-GenderAdapterMassProducedSignUpForUnheardFMMusic
>There is a guy who built an FM addon for the sms which lets you get the fm music for games that have it enabled.
The SMSFM, by an Australian guy. He makes them for both the SMS and the SMS2. The SMS version can be a pain due to all the board redesigns - I have one with exactly the same component layout as the original PAL model, but the signal goes through a different capacitor all together.
http://etim.net.au/smsfm/smsfm.html

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 22 07:17:36 2015 No.2192534 Used to play Rampart on the MS all the time with me fren. Too bad it only showed up once we already had MDs around.

Anonymous Fri Jan 23 00:13:58 2015 No.2193828

>>2192405
Also, in fairness, the three prongs allows you to position your thumb in the optimal position for both analog stick and D-pad use.

I prefer the ergonomics of the PS controller over the Xbox controller, but the position of the thumbsticks is a little awkward... not as awkward as using the D-Pad on the Xbox, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 24 12:17:25 2015 No.2196203 >>2189897 The idea was to mix and match which two prongs you designed your game around. That was actually a selling point on the box.

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