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/vr/ - Retro Games

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2143145 No.2143145 [Reply] [Original]

What is the biggest Metroidvania out there?
How do Super Metroid and SOTN rank?

>> No.2143151

>>2143145
You mean "big" as in popular, or "big" as in world size?

>> No.2143153

>>2143151
big as in world size

>> No.2143158
File: 63 KB, 256x192, order.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2143158

>>2143153
could be order of ecclasia on ds. each one is a different map, though some are obviously tiny.

SOTN and HOD both have inverted castles - the same map upside down with different color palettes and enemies...

>> No.2143159

>>2143145

https://archive.moe/vr/thread/1871812/#1871812

Someone in fact made the calculation.

>deleted by al-Hotpoki

Fucking Janitards.

>> No.2143168

Battle of Olympus seems pretty huge for the tech capabilities at the time of its release but I think SotN is likely the largest.

>> No.2143191

harmony of dissonance is definitely the worst designed since in order to get from one side of the castle to the other you MUST go through every single area, no shortcuts
and then theres a retarded door in the middle leading to draculas tower that requires you to equip two rings in a skippable cutscene except its never mentioned you must have them equipped to go through the door

>> No.2143341

>>2143191
but that music tho

>> No.2143382

>>2143158
All of the areas of OoE are relatively small, except for Drac's castle.

>> No.2143384

Legacy of the Wizard is pretty crazy for the time.

>> No.2143392

>>2143384

I don't think I ever beat that game start to finish

>> No.2143476

>>2143158
HOD doesn't have an inverted castle, it's an entirely different castle layout.

>> No.2143487

>>2143341
some of the worst in the series

>> No.2143491

>>2143145
La-Mulana maybe. Well, it might not be the biggest, but it probably takes the longest to get through the first time. f that game

>> No.2143558

On Metroidvania:

I'm still really confused as to how "Metroidvania" doesn't exclusively refer to Castlevania games that use the exploration style popularized by Metroid. I mean, the term "Classicvania" exists to describe the (often clunky, and punishing) games in the series that handle and progress similarly to the first game, and I don't understand why "Metroidvania" doesn't specifically refer to the entries that aren't -Classic -3D -PachiSlot games. Why can't Metroid games just be... Metroid games.

Polite sage for only tangentially related to the topic at hand.

>> No.2143618

>>2143558
The big joke is that neither castlevania has nothing to do with the genre's emergence.

Wonderboy was doing the same thing a decade before. It's only SotN fanboys and the idiotic magazines that catered to them that ever say the game had an influence on anything.

Whats even more ironic is that of the 'metroidvania' games SoTN is by far the worst. It has lowest selection of abilities and weapons to use by far, the game is pathetically easy yet features so many different things that break the game entirely. Even the exploring sucks with half the power ups only being used once or twice and you stop receiving new abilities once you get to the inverted castle, which is an incredibly lazy way to pad the game out.

Of the genre Super Metroid and Metroid Prime stand out as pinnacles of greatness. Nothing comes even close to them in terms of atmosphere and the sense of discovery.

>> No.2143697

>>2143558
>>2143618
because SoTN came out when the playstation was converting everyone to polygonal 3d games, and it was wildly fucking popular. So it took what was at one time just a game mechanic, and turning it into a codified genre. Eventually you have a bunch of sequels getting released on nintendo handhelds as well as a sequel to Metroid.

There ya go. It's not a dig on wonderboy, though you fucking forgot Goonies 2 and Zeliard, so suck a dick ya hipster. It's just kids being kids. although people that came of age in that time are having kids now.

>> No.2143715

>>2143618
Wonderboy was dead and buried by the time the genre got named.

>> No.2144212
File: 417 KB, 482x719, Xanadu_MSX_Cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2144212

We should just call these games Xanadu-likes.

>> No.2144258

>>2143618
>Metroid Prime stand out as pinnacles of greatness.

Yes it ticked all the franchise checkboxes until you actually had to play it.

>> No.2144286

>>2143618
Sadly enough, SoTN made "metroidvania" far more popular than Metroid did. It took a genre that many liked and brought it to a game series many, many more people liked and thus introduced it to an even wider audience. You'd have to find some real idiots who think it's the first game to do it but for every one of those idiots, there's two or three people who never said or thought such a thing. God of War wasn't the first QTE "brutal action" game but it sure as fuck introduced it to a lot of people, hence why it's parodied the most when it comes to that shit.

>> No.2144296

>>2143158
>HOD
What about castlevania portrait of ruin? the castle its not "big" but it's ok, the portraits/paintings are big tho

>> No.2145018

>>2144212
That girl is showing a dangerous amount of ass.

>> No.2145039

>>2144286
When people call Devil May Cry or 3D Ninja Gaiden "God of War clones" it makes me want to stick my head in an oven

>>2143618
>Nothing comes even close
Other Metroid games come to mind

SoTN's biggest screw-up imo was the "rpg elements", xp and random drops just suck in that play style

>> No.2145071

>>2143618
I don't give even half a shit what you think of SoTN. To this day, it still has the best soundtrack of any game in its genre and birthed all of the great Castlevania games that came afterward, including Aria of Sorrow, which is easily in the upper echelon of not only GBA games, but handheld games period. The fact that you mention it is the worst of its kind is laughable, considering it was an objectively good game that paved the way for the games that improved on its formula.

Go ahead and tell me it's an objectively bad game so I can laugh some more. What you're ranting about is completely irrelevant.

>> No.2145081

>>2145039
Super Metroid and Prime 1 are really in a class of their own. All the metroids before super are not as refined and all the ones after hold your hand too much. Prime just has one of the best environments ever made in the history of first person 3d games.

The castlevania 'metroidvania' games do a lot of things but none of them are done well. The combat and pacing is terrible compared to the more linear games part of is the rpg garbage. A new weapon upgrade in a metroidvania will often let you kill enemies before they can react. Another reason is that the stages are basically boring flat ground with random enemies stamped out, no concept of level design.

Most metroidvanias also give a huge list of spells and weapons to toy with, the list is never balanced and there's always some way to cheese the game or even break it in half.

The exploring bits aren't very good since most of the items are in plane sight, and the power ups arn't as engaging as in other games.

There's also tons of little things to occupy your time, a pointless elemental weakness chart, fetch quests, memorable enemies like a skeleton waiter with a plate of curry.

The basic design philosophy of the metroidvania castlevania games is 'throw enough stuff at the player so they always have a new gimmick to play with'.

It actually works out pretty well with the most complex games. There's so many different ways to kill things in portrait of ruin you rarely go more than a minute or 2 without getting a new toy to play with. The bosses are also usually well designed.

>> No.2145134

>>2145081
>the pacing is terrible
Inverse castle in SoTN nullifies this argument, and so does Dracula's Castle in OoE.

>always some way to cheese the game or even break it in half

The vast majority of good old games can be cheesed through with the knowledge we have now because we live in a completely different age with way more information flying about so I don't see your point...?

Also, most of the broken powerups in modern Castlevania games are hard to find and available at the end of the game, like Crissaegrim/Valmanway, the speed spell that nullifies projectiles in OoE, bat form, poison mist, etc.

And uh, a vast majority of the good items in Castlevania are hidden or difficult to reach. The ones in plain sight are obviously the ones you are supposed to have for that point in the game, and they usually suck compared to the hidden items.

Stop ranting and back your shit up. Cite examples. At this point, I can tell I've shit more Metroidvania than you've ever played.

>> No.2145172

>>2144286
>Sadly enough

Cute.

I think its sad that Castlevainia SotN is even compared to Metroid. The only thing they have in common is continuous multiroom game worlds. However, its to be expected because of the mass migration from SNES to Playstation and thats how most people tried to explain what the game was like.

Personally I don know why Metroid fanboys are so sensitive to it. They are totally different games. My guess is they so desperately want people to be reminded of who did what first.

>> No.2145176

>>2145172
>The only thing they have in common is continuous multiroom game worlds.
And more importantly, the way you explore the world was inspired by metroid.

>> No.2145238

>>2145172
What? Why would people NOT compare them? Mechanically they are very similar, certainly much more so than any other 2D game. The first thing someone is going to say when they look at the SotN mini-map is "hey, that reminds me of Super Metroid." And when you're playing it's laid out into distinct areas, you have save rooms, bosses, items that help you reach new places.

Yes there is a lot of BS about the appropriateness of the "metroidvania" term and people ignorant of history, but it's pretty dumb to act confused why anyone would compare the games. There's no mystery here.

>> No.2145254

>>2145176
>the way you explore the world was inspired by metroid.

Which was inspired by the Dragon Slayer series (Xanadu in this case) on the PC-88 and various Japanese home PCs. And so on and so forth.

The point is, people care too much about who did what first. Everything is an iteration of ideas from other works.

>> No.2145424

Are there any Metroidvania type games with a bunch of story and recurring characters, kind of like Cave Story but more exploration-y and such?

Besides some of the Castlevania games to an extent.

>> No.2145429

>>2143145

Sauce on pic?

>> No.2146601
File: 160 KB, 2400x2972, super_metroid_redesign_map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2146601

>> No.2146602

>>2143159
It was deleted because it was off-topic.

>> No.2147909

>>2145071

There is no such thing as an "objectively good" game, please learn what "objectively" means.

>> No.2148062

>>2146601

How is that Super Metroid hack? I plan to try Metroid Super Zero Mission since I heard it was the pinnacle of Super Metroid hacks, but I see the Redesign map posted almost daily.

>> No.2148567

>>2148062

Redesign, Super Zero Mission and Project Base are always posted as must play hacks. I really don't know what to play or expect over them.

>> No.2148592

>>2147909
> Based on observable phenomena; empirical:
> Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices:
Thus by your philosophy nothing can be objectively good.
Your opinion is incorrect.

>> No.2148784

>>2145081
>all the ones after hold your hand too much.

Super is always holding your hand. The game doesn't allow you to get lost.

>> No.2148847

>>2148592
Ever heard of the wheel?
BTFO

>> No.2148849

>>2143145
Original samus was so cute.

>> No.2150634

>>2148849
She reminds me of a Lemming.

Shame her "zero suit" design has been so inconsistent through the whole series.

>> No.2150671

>>2145134
Not him but you can get access to the strongest attack in HoD by like the halfway point.

>> No.2150702

>>2143491
La Mulana is actually rather small. It's just that it's packed with so many things to do it takes an eternity to unravel the misteries of the ruins.

>>2148062
I tried that hack and I got quickly stuck because of wall-jumping sections. If you haven't mastered it, don't even consider playing that hack.

>> No.2150802

>>2150702
Walljumping in redesign is way too different to the original one
>hellrun
>single walljump error will kill you
I hate this hack. Only the beginning is perfect.

>> No.2150835

>>2144258
and it became clear it was as good in practice as it was in theory

great game, still love it and emulate it to this day

>> No.2150852

>>2150702
>>2150802

So Redesign requires the use of "advanced" stuff, yes? Walljumping, shinesparking, mockballing, et cetera? I hear part of the reason Super Zero Mission is great is because it doesn't require all of that stuff. Granted, I can do those things, but not always consistently.

>> No.2152972

>>2150802
Oh, that's why it was so hard for me then, I haven't played original SMetroid in ages so I didn't even realize it was different.

>> No.2154476

>>2146601
I hated how they changed the physics.

>> No.2154496

>>2154476
I think they just didn't want to leave OWJing a valid move.

It's so easy to OWJ, and it circumvents so many obstacles, that I can't blame them for not wanting people to OWJ everywhere.

>> No.2154504

>>2154496
that's what I don't get about romhackers, why not let the players sequence break if they really want to? Especially for a Super Metroid romhack.

>> No.2154507

>>2154504
Because MUH PLANNEN.
It's the exact same thing that leads to railroading in TRPGs.

Also it's a hell of a lotta work to test for all possible SBs, and ensure that you can't get yourself stuck somewhere. All it takes is one loudmouth SBing and getting stuck for your romhack to get a bad rap.

>> No.2154540

Where is Addams Family nigs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL4WfcpZT6M

>> No.2157094

>>2150852
What are some Super Metroid romhacks that don't do this? I'm interested, but I never had the time to learn all that fancy shit.