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/vr/ - Retro Games

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2120774 No.2120774 [Reply] [Original]

What kind of gameplay would this be called
Any list of games that use this type gameplay

Resident evil
Paracite eve
Dinocrisis

>> No.2120776

wasn't it Tank controls or something like that?

>> No.2120803

>>2120774
I love these type of games but they kinda died out with the playstation,i liked those games with the pre-rendered backgrounds,dont think they have any kind of name though other than survival horror

>> No.2120808

Silent hill.

>> No.2120813

>>2120808
They are pretty different.

SH is a door checking simulator, RE is more of exploration game in a sense that it is a lot less linear even if there is overall less areas/rooms.

>> No.2120815

>>2120774

Survival horror.

>> No.2120823

>>2120774
I still think it'd be a good idea to prey upon people's nostalgia of static camera angled/tank controlled Resident Evil games.

That's got to be a market right? Not huge or anything but shit I'd buy one. I lived and bled these kinds of games growing up. My family would gather around and watch my father play RE and Silent Hill and Overblood.

Also I would assume it's easier to make a game like this now then it was then. That's just a straight assumption though, fuck if I know anything about making pre-rendered backrounds.

>> No.2120824

>>2120774
What type of gameplay? Parasite Eve is nothing gameplay wise like RE and DC.

PE is action-jrpg, RE and DC are survival horror.

>> No.2120828

>gameplay

Stop using this stupid word

>> No.2120834

>>2120823
It requires a great artist for those delicious backgrounds.

>> No.2120838
File: 33 KB, 640x539, notre.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2120838

>> No.2120857

>>2120823
Wanted to make one for atari jag

But compliers for that system tom and jerry chips so not exsist

>> No.2120876

>>2120813
>RE
>not linear
dude what

>> No.2121273

>>2120776
I fucking hate tank controls.

>> No.2121289

>>2120828
>stop
>word
>stupid
Stop using these stupid words.

>> No.2121292

>>2121273
i have no idea why people kept saying tank controls were necessary for pre-rendered backgrounds when people like squaresoft managed to pull off relative to camera movement perfectly fine

also ppl who defend tank controls enhanced survival because youre supposed to not panic or something. how they made the controls shit on purpose to drive the point to the player that you are a hopeless average grunt
and then RE2 came out and they made the gameplay increasingly faster and actiony. And then RE3 and DC2 came out and they made it full arcade including doing fucking combos, hiscoring, dodge mechanic and shit
yeah survival horror my ass

>> No.2121295

>>2120774
Time Commando

>> No.2121298

>>2120774
It's a third-person action-adventure game.

>> No.2121353

>>2120823
I think that there's a Doom mod in the works that uses this camera system.

>> No.2121358

Games with tank controls are essentially adventure games that generally seem to have a heavier emphasis on combat.

It's easy to get the feeling that RE games coulda worked as point and clicks.

>> No.2121486 [DELETED] 

>>2120876
Silent Hill is overrated

>> No.2121604

>>2121273
I agree to an extent but the few games I liked with tank controls aren't /vr/

>> No.2121692

>>2120823
There's a indie game that's trying to do that.

http://kriophobiagame.com/

>> No.2121712

>>2120828
Yeah gameplay is such a buzzword

>> No.2121719

>>2120828
What're you supposed to call it? Official button pressing terminology?

>> No.2121720

People seem to not notice that RE4 (and 5 and probably 6) still had tank controls. All they did was move the camera, it's not even analog aside from aiming.

>> No.2121756

>>2121720
The earlier ones just felt even more tank due to having fixed cameras that didn't affect movement input.

>> No.2121812

>>2121756
Can someone define tank controls? I thought camera/movement disconnect was part of it. Is it just the inability to strafe? If RE4 has tank controls, then Silent Hill doesn't have tank controls.

>> No.2121813

>>2121358

Point and click is so gay though. If Resident Evil were done in that style, you'd confront one or two zombies in the whole game and not even fight them. It would probably be more like "Oh no, a zombie, better put this padlock I found on that door so I don't have to fight it at all!"

That would have been so boring.

>> No.2121964

>>2121812
It's when spinning the character and moving the character forward are done separately.

>> No.2121972

>>2120838
Figuring out the controls to that thing was practically a game in itself.

Took me forever to realize I didn't need the injector gun to use the healing medicine.

>> No.2121976

>>2121812
They both have tank controls, though.

>> No.2122003

>>2121964
Then WASD+mouse/dual-analog controls are tank controls.

>>2121976
Explain why, though. What's a clear definition of tank controls? In RE4, your movement and turning are always relative to the camera, so it has tank controls because you can't strafe, and the camera has no bearing on it having tank controls, right? But you can strafe in Silent Hill, so to say that Silent Hill has tank controls would be entirely based on the disconnect between camera angle and movement direction.

>> No.2122018

Tank control: Facing the desired direction with left of right directional buttons then pressing up to move towards it.

Non-tank: instant move to whatever directional buttton is pressed.

Samples of tank:
RE2, parasite eve 2

Semi tank:
Tomb raider (since you can steer lara while pressing up + right/left button when moving/running

Non tank:
Parasite eve 1, tenchu 1

>> No.2122019

>>2122003
Tank controls have to do with how you move the character. To say SH didn't have tank controls, it would have to control like, say, Mario 64.

>> No.2122201

There is nothing wrong with tank controls. There I said it.

>> No.2122215

>>2121358
>It's easy to get the feeling that RE games coulda worked as point and clicks.

Uh, no. Real time combat is important to RE games.

Navigating that narrow hallway of zombies is a lot less interesting if you don't have to decide to fight them or zig zag through them using your skills. Bosses become less of a threat if you don't have to actively fight them.

>> No.2122218

>>2122201
Agreed, they work flawlessly for tank games.

>> No.2122230
File: 130 KB, 424x539, Claire GB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2122230

>>2121292
>i have no idea why people kept saying tank controls were necessary for pre-rendered backgrounds

it's not the prerendered backgrounds that where the issue.

It was the ever changing camera angles. If the camera perspective shifts on you as you held right you'd end up running into a wall or a monster or something.

Tank controls strength is that they provide a absolute sense of direction in regards to movement

>> No.2122232
File: 176 KB, 550x550, 56547%20-%20jill_valentine%20Resident_Evil%20Resident_Evil_3%20sawao.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2122232

>>2122218
>>2122201

I don't even get where all this sudden hate for them is coming from.

I swear I never saw a word about them when the games where new and since the games where actually designed around them they work perfectly.

You have to really really suck if you're having problems

>> No.2122238

>>2122232
>I swear I never saw a word about them when the games where new and since the games where actually designed around them they work perfectly.
Your inability to see things that were common and around has no bearing on it's existence.

>You have to really really suck if you're having problems
No one said we're having problems. They're just shit. Succeeding at doing shitty things doesn't make shitty things less shitty.
Besides, I agreed with you, tank controls are great. For tank games. Where they fucking belong.

>> No.2122249

>>2122232
RE1 was a joke when it came out, dude. The voice acting wasn't the only part of that, either. Even at the time, the controls felt unfinished, like developers hadn't quite figured out how to do good games with polygonal graphics yet, especially with Resident Evil and shit like that.

But it had zombies, so everyone dove in hard.

>> No.2122413

>>2122249
>But it had zombies, so everyone dove in hard.

in fairness Zombies weren't quite as overdone back then

>> No.2122550
File: 33 KB, 640x480, hoursinpaint.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2122550

It served a certain purpose, namely precision using boolean inputs in a 3D environment.

>> No.2122589

>>2122249
>things that never happened for $100 thanks Alex

>> No.2122613

>>2122003
>Then WASD+mouse/dual-analog controls are tank controls.
Sorry, I should've said "not simultaneously" instead of "separately"

>> No.2122785

>>2120815
I hate how people nowaday call games like Doom3, Survival horror.
To me:
-Low ammo
-Not a super hero
-Overwhelming enemy(ies)
What about you?
What makes a survival horror different from an action and/or horror game.

>> No.2122806

>>2120823
I'm learning how to use Unity/Blender and I am working all by myself on a Survival Horror project.
At first, I wanted it to be very similar to RE2. But out of 50 of my friends only one really liked the
pre-rendered background.

So I switched back to 3D.

>> No.2122815

>>2120774
Alone in the Dark ripoffs

>> No.2123170

>>2122806
>But out of 50 of my friends only one really liked the
>pre-rendered background.

Uggh focus testing. Nothing kills a game more than a bunch of people who know shit about design chiming in before it's done

>> No.2123189

>>2122785
Doom 3 had low ammo if you played it on hard. At least that's what I remember.

>> No.2123193

>>2122806

This >>2123170
Make the game YOU want to make, not what others think they want to play. Stick to your vision and assuming you're talented the game will hold up to the standards you set for it, because it'll never hold up to the standards someone else sets. Especially if you're making it alone- odds are you're not going to conquer the gaming world either way so why the fuck not take the risks you want to take?

>> No.2123197

>>2122230
Well, you could easily get around that by switching to relative directions when the camera changed (which is what Sands of Time did IIRC).

I like "limited" feeling controls (like tank controls) because I'm more interested in how the gameplay complements the themes of the game rather than how intuitive it is. Unfortunately most people (and developers) don't seem to agree with me.

>> No.2123245

>>2122613
But you can turn and move forward simultaneously in every game mentioned in this thread.

I guess my point is that I don't think "tank controls" can apply to a game where your character's POV is lined up with the camera 100% of the time. Does Goldeneye have tank controls? If not, is it because you can strafe? That would mean that tank controls are defined exclusively by the inability to move your character sideways in relation to his POV/the camera, and it would also mean that camera/movement disconnect has nothing to do with the definition.

But in Silent Hill, you can step sideways in relation to your character's orientation, so to say that it has tank controls would mean that the definition depends entirely on the disconnect between movement direction and camera angle, and the ability to move your character in four directions without rotating has nothing to do with it.

>> No.2124060

>>2123245

I will concede that sidestepping would have been beneficial to to the resi series

>> No.2124463

Replies in this are looking very /v/ today

>> No.2124667

>>2124463
just like earlier.

>> No.2124672

>>2122806
>But out of 50 of my friends
Are you a Hollywood actor or something?

>> No.2124739

>>2123245
It's all kinda academic considering all the edge cases you can come up with hardly ever occur in real games. IIRC side stepping in Silent Hill was awkward and limited use, not at all like being able to walk sideways in a FPS where movement and rotation are entirely independent.

>> No.2124886

I like old RE games they didnt treat you like an idiot

>> No.2125163

>>2124886
I Miss 'em.
=(
Only generic FPS or wannabe Survival Horro who happen to be Action Drama Horror Shit....

>> No.2125169

>>2124672
????
No, just a 25 year old boy.
Got friends, that's all....

>> No.2125184

>>2124886
>>2125163
You could always play shit like Dino Crisis, Onimusha, Silent Hill, or Haunting Ground and Fatal Frame. They're different, but they all kind of have the same feel.

>> No.2125243

>>2123170
Yeah, I've stopped showing it.
For a bunch of reason but I think you're right.
Thank you.

>>2123193
I am not talented enough in 3d modeling to sacrifice rail camera and surveillance like camera.
So I'm trying to create a game to build myself some kind of a portfolio.
So 3d modelers would have something to show them my programming potential.
Have some reputation. I don't think that I'll sell it.
But with a descent 3d artist, I think a pre-render who be nice and allow to focus on the model
of the protagonist and the enemies (zombies in my case). It would definitively be the game I'd make.
And I've got a friend who actually studied in music who is always glad to help me.
He wrote and recorded 5 songs and is ready to record all sound effects.

>> No.2125246

>>2125184
Haven't tried Hauting Ground and fatal frame.
Thanks!

>> No.2125257

>>2122815
Only one post mentioning Alone in the Dark? That's th game that invented it.

>> No.2125428

>>2124886
>I like old RE games they didnt treat you like an idiot

Remember when games didn't always have an onscreen button prompt when you can interact with shit

>> No.2126459

>>2125428
/vr/ uses quick time events instead of captcha

>> No.2127997

>>2122550
That's really an issue of sensitivity not an issue of precision, of which it greatly lacked as well.

>> No.2128126
File: 101 KB, 640x480, keyboard-arrows.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2128126

>>2127997
But you can't really point 12 degree relative to the main character using directional controls.

>> No.2128819

>>2121292
RE had tank controls because at the time 3d environments were still a relatively new thing, and the dpad was limited to 8 directions. Moving to a specific point on a plane is more difficult and visually jaring when you have to constantly adjust your position and the model doesn't even spin, it's just immediately rendered facing another direction. Look at how the characters move in RE compared to FFVII. They did camera-relative controls in FF and you constantly have to do the waggle dance to hit the right point to pick something up, or the character would have to auto-walk to a starting point and then auto-walk to the right position.

Either method were fine at the time, generally accomplishing what they set out to do. Then Analog controllers came along a year or two later, and moving on a plane got a lot easier. For RE though, they stuck with tank controls because it ended up being a defining point of the series.

It's not like the developers were intentionally dicks. Technology changed faster than the willingness to re-evaluate design decisions.

>> No.2128821

>>2122238
While I agree Tank controls are suboptimal, once you've played a game with tank controls you can basically pick up any game with tank controls and be fine. It just has a steeper learning curve.

>> No.2130672
File: 102 KB, 720x544, 10-1950 Sukyandaru (Shūbun).avi_004591684.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2130672

hey guise, sorry to ask this, but i cant find RE1 for pc to download... could you guys give me a hand? torrent or direct dl works.

pic unrelated

>> No.2130678

>>2130672
Just emulate the PS1 version. The PC port is broken beyond belief.

>> No.2130687

>>2130672
Play the Saturn version if you can.

>> No.2130692

>>2130678
broken? you mean it doesnt actually work or just that it is bad?

>>2130687
why? is it the superior one?

>> No.2130696

>>2130692

The saturn version is one of the cooler versions of RE1, but its also the slowest version.

>> No.2130707

>>2122238
Yeah they're so shit people adapted to them quickly and game journalists at the time had very little complaints with them. Man i wonder what we would do without your authority on this subject.

I find it very difficult that a series with such a steady following of speedrunners would flock to a game with "shit" controls, i find that the better the game controls the more of a following it has with speedrunners. Maybe what you mean to say is "i don't like these controls" and not "i don't like these controls therfore they are bad".

>> No.2130729

>>2130692
>why? is it the superior one?

There is no superior version of RE1. Each version has its pro and cons and there is no definite one.

Pros of the Saturn version:
- Exclusive 2nd skin for the 2nd time you meet the Hunter and Chimera enemies (so both enemies look different and look pretty cool)
- Exclusive alternate costumes which imo are the best ones (read: the only good ones)
- Exclusive Battle Mode, a mini game which imo and for many people is one of the best Battle modes in the series (though it can be a little challenging)
- better quality for the 2D backgrounds than on PS1 (but worse than on PC with the right setup)

Cons :
- the 3D models look worse than on PS1, more blocky
- loading times are as bad as on PS1 (PC is better on this regard)

ALso I know that there is no autoaim in the PAL saturn version; but I heard there was in the NTSC-U version but I can't confirm. For me, no autoaim in RE1 is a pro but for others it's a con. IIRC the original first release had no autoaim, take that as you will.

>> No.2130736

>>2122785
>What makes a survival horror different from an action and/or horror game.
Camera, controls, pacing, a terrible inventory system for solving bad puzzles.

>> No.2130741

>>2130672
http://www.legendsworld.net/shooter/alphabet/?SEARCH=resident+evil

>> No.2130751
File: 13 KB, 320x200, Ecstatica.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2130751

>>2120774
you called?

>> No.2130753

>>2122785
>What makes a survival horror different from an action and/or horror game.

survival horror is a sub-genre of action/adventure, which itself is a subgenre mixing the action and adventure genres.
survival horror is an exception in video game genre defining, because in video games genres are defined by gameplay mechanics (unlike for instance movies, defined by themes), but in survival horror the notion of theme (horror) is included so it's defined both by the gameplay mechanics and the horror theme.
This is why some people claim survival horror shouldn't be considered a real VG genre; because it's just marketing term for a sub sub sub genre.

Also "horror" alone is not a video game genre.

For a game to be survival horror it needs to have:
- a proeminent horror theme. In the entire game (not just a small part or bit), the INTENT is to be horrifying and/or scary and/or gorry and/or disgusting etc.
Also because a game doesn't scare/horrify you doesn't mean it's not a horror game, as long as the intent was there, it just means that you think it's a BAD horror game. Your taste doesn't define genres.

- adventure gameplay elements; for instance exploration, puzzles, etc
- action gameplay elements, like twitched based control on your character. Action elements doesn't mean it has to have gun. Running from enemy is an action gameplay element as long as you have full precise control on your character
(cont)

>> No.2130754 [DELETED] 

>>2130753
(cont)

- moreover, those gameplay mechanics have to be 'survival' gameplay mechanics; which means that the intent is to make the player feel weak and vulnerable. For instance, ammo and ivnentory management; having to find ammo by yourself instead of enemies dropping items; having to run away from enemies, etc
Again, this is intent, whether it works or not is another question. Also ammo count something to look at to define that, otherwise it would mean that some games are survival on hard and not on normal difficulty which doesn't make sense, genre definining doesn't depend on difficulty. Moreover, in RE1 you have enough ammo to kill every single enemy (if you don't count the infinite respawn glitch in that one room), but what makes it survival horror is the fact that you have to look for the ammo everywhere, that enemies don't drop it, that yuo have often get it little by little by having to solve puzzles or find keys or that the ammo is hidden here and there.

>> No.2130757

>>2130753 (You)
(cont)

- moreover, those gameplay mechanics have to be 'survival' gameplay mechanics; which means that the intent is to make the player feel weak and vulnerable. For instance, ammo and ivnentory management; having to find ammo by yourself instead of enemies dropping items; having to run away from enemies, etc
Again, this is intent, whether it works or not is another question. Also ammo count is not something to look at to define survival gameplay, otherwise it would mean that some games are survival on hard and not on normal difficulty which doesn't make sense, genre definining doesn't depend on difficulty. Moreover, in RE1 you have enough ammo to kill every single enemy (if you don't count the infinite respawn glitch in that one room), but what makes it survival horror is the fact that you have to look for the ammo everywhere, that enemies don't drop it, that yuo have often get it little by little by having to solve puzzles or find keys or that the ammo is hidden here and there.

>> No.2130761

>>2130751

Those games were technically very impressive back in the day. Still look really weird with their ball based rendering.

Also, the backgrounds are so shit that for the longest time I thought (from screenshots, never played them) that they were also real time.

I was really surprised to know that they're made by a single guy.