/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2115530]

Are the Descent games still worth playing today, or have they aged badly?

[Anonymous No.2115532]

>aged badly

[Anonymous No.2115641]

I'm getting a Thrustmaster this weekend. It's lots of fun with a keyboard to begin with, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq4Gmjom8mw


Also, the fucking music man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkjqn85JCyI

[Anonymous No.2115704]

> aged badly
> on /vr/

[Anonymous No.2115934]

>>2115530
games don't age anon

you age

[Anonymous No.2115962]

The only thing that might bother you is that if you use a mouse, your turning speed will still be as limited as it'd be with keyboard or a joystick. Also, the original game is insanely difficult. Cloaked hitscanners that fire as soon as they can see you (placed right behind a door), homing missiles that are only slightly slower than you and incredibly hard to dodge, enemies that use the same weapons you have, but with way more damage tolerance than your tin can. The sequel greatly improves things in that respect, adding lots of weapons, items, and new enemies that result in similar difficulty without the feeling of unfairness that the first game has. Can't speak for the third game, as I've never played it.

[Anonymous No.2116030]

>>2115934
>what is a metaphor

[Anonymous No.2116621]

i was having fun until those robot screaming things that lock on to you instantly destroyed me

[Anonymous No.2116752]

>>2116030
Misleading and inaccurate, usually, like this one.

>>2116621
These? Yeah, that's basically the point when the game stops being fun and turns into painful trial and error. Thank god they got rid of them in all the later games.

[Anonymous No.2116765]

Not only are they worth playing, it's a shame they aren't making ports/sequels to Oculus Rift.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffil_Ic7uUc

[Anonymous No.2116767]

holy fuck i'd kill for a VR mod of this game i could with trinus gyre

[Anonymous No.2116787]

>>2116765
https://github.com/CDarrow/DXX-Retro/issues/41

I'm sure some of the other mods have looked into it too.

[Anonymous No.2116802]

>>2115530
Descent 3 is pretty decent

[Anonymous No.2116807]

Go with Red Alarm instead if you're after a bad time.

[Anonymous No.2116850]

>>2116752
ya

[Anonymous No.2116904]

>>2116752
>Misleading and inaccurate, usually, like this one.
And yet the only people who bitch about it are 4chan autists.. funny that.

[Anonymous No.2116921]

>>2115530
Descent is an incredible game. Pulls no punches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flGSMG8AgcA

[Anonymous No.2116959]

>>2116904
i think what he was getting at is that whether games age is dependent on the individual which is an important distinction... nitpicky as it is

>>2116921
redbook version of this track is a heck of a lot better (i'm lazy)

[Anonymous No.2117017]

>>2116959
>giving the redbook audio a listen

these are pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeUeMnmQ8qs
(probably my favorite track)
becomes-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DGqaap3c8w
fuck, that bass part is sweet.


then-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9l7-Js8_Ec

well. its certainly a great version. I can't help but feel there is something lost in translation though.

there is just something really understated about the tracks with the original OPL sound.

[Anonymous No.2117040]

>>2115530
>play this as child with my twin brother on windows 95 computer
>I am on one side of the keyboard doing left, right, forwards and backwards and shooting
>He's on the other doing up & down, missiles and other special moves
>Play it no problems

>Fast forward to last year
>see it in a pawn shop for a buck
>play it on my ps3 for a day
>eyes begin to hurt and I get motion sickness

Am I getting old or did it have something to do with playing for an extended period of time on a big screen tv?

[Anonymous No.2117054]

>>2115962
>Descent
>Insane
>Difficult

I suddenly feel better about clearing it start to finish on max difficulty.

Most things are highly telegraphed, and if you've played the earlier difficulties you know what's coming which makes it easier. True, if you go in not knowing anything, it's exceptionally difficult.

Since it came out, every week or so I play level 6 or 21 on insane and clear it with little difficulty.

[Anonymous No.2117073]

>>2117040
Dunno about others but I have motion sickness trouble with Descent when I'm playing it on a small screen or further away, trying to focus on all the movement in a small space with static surroundings. Maybe when you were a kid your face was just closer to the monitor?

[Anonymous No.2117087]

Should I just start with Descent 3?

[Anonymous No.2117096]

Games don't age. Games are not milk.

You do not compare old games to new games. You can only compare new games to old games.

When playing retro, you ALWAYS compare it to other games that came out at around the same time. Nothing else.

Games do not have an expiration date.

[Anonymous No.2117102]

>>2117096
I compare old games to new games. Because I don't like playing shitty games. If an NES game doesn't compare favorably to an SNES game, why would I play it? The best NES games often more fun in many ways than top tier SNES games.

[Anonymous No.2117191]

>>2117087
I found D3 to be the weakest game. D2 is a reasonable starting point, but keep in mind that if you play the first game after it you will wish you had guided missiles and the gauss cannon half the time.

[Anonymous No.2117192]

>>2117096
No. When you're looking for entertainment, you must compare what game will give you the greatest joy to play without concern for its release date. Not all retro games have been surpassed by modern ones, but there are some that hold many archaic and poor design choices modern ones had changed.

Now if you wanted to speak in an obective historical sense, then yeah, you can't say X was a bad game back then because Y came out a year ago and completely blew it out of the water. But if you're looking for something fun to play in the here and now and you can select from any video game in history, then you are directly comparing something that came out in 1990 to something that came out in 2014.

[Anonymous No.2117240]

>>2115532
>>2115704
>>2115934
>>2116752
>>2117096
Don't see the problem with the concept.

Some games are timeless, some are not. Some are products of their time that can only be enjoyed in their time, while others can be enjoyed- even by newcomers- into perpetuity.

The idea comes from practical experience. You might go back and play a game from your youth and it's not so great after all. Or, you still have a blast but are more cognizant of the game's deep issues, and recognize the importance of nostalgia to your appreciation. Or, the game could be even better than you recall; a thing of sublime beauty. A manifestation of the divine.

Old games you missed back in the day also run the gamut. They don't have a competitive disadvantage against new games. We don't need affirmative action for old games- they rightly stand or fall on their own merits.

[Anonymous No.2117493]

>>2117240
>>2117192
It's still an empty statement to say something has "aged" because there are barely any games anyone talks about that people will agree upon. Some faggot is going to think Descent is too blocky and that makes it "unplayable" whereas others think it's just fine. Some people can't stand tank controls, many have no problems with going back to that.

"Has it aged badly?" is a retarded question to ask and retarded one to answer. Just talk about what you think is good or bad and stop trying to make it sound like you officially determined that a game is no longer worth playing. It's lazy as shit.

[Anonymous No.2117609]

I think it's a reliance on new technology that makes a game actually "age badly". FMV games like Night Trap are the perfect example of this. They looked amazing and developed a huge amount of buzz and the "adult" nature of the material even further swelled it but those FMV games very quickly became "old". The glossiness wore off and we saw the game play was sorely lacking.

One can see how Descent did lean pretty heavily on its early 3D engine but in the sequels there was real focus on improvement and expansion. Descent will still appeal to many - way more than Sewer Shark but probably fewer than a real "classic" masterpiece.

"Aged poorly" has just become a /v/-tier buzzword to mean anything old you don't personally, subjectively appreciate and should rightly be eliminated from the lexicon.

[Anonymous No.2117671]

>>2115530
I have actually went back and gave this a try a while ago. Its still as fun as it was.
I stopped playing though because when i played as a child i always had my brother with me. Now it just makes me lonely.

[Anonymous No.2118525]

>>2116904
4chan is literally the only place I have ever heard anyone say any game has aged. Neither does it have any relevance on a board dedicated to admiring older games.

For OP, no, I think it 'aged' well. The maps are pretty fucking confusing but it is still worth a playthrough. I netplay it from time to time still and always have a blast doing so.

[Anonymous No.2118605]

descent's aged better cuz you can use a dual analog stick instead of a shitty joystick with 2 axes

[Anonymous No.2118609]

>>2117493
>It's still an empty statement to say something has "aged" because there are barely any games anyone talks about that people will agree upon.
People constantly bicker over the quality of new releases. Nobody at the time of old games' releases could agree on what was good. If your argument is correct, then the whole notion of a good game is worthless as it's purely subjective. Metrics of quality are ''at least'' as variable as metrics of agedness.

I don't doubt that people have used "aged poorly" arbitrarily, as ammunition against games they don't like (possibly even carrying a vendetta from the time of the game's release to the present). It doesn't mean it's not a useful concept in the study of games. As always when people go
>just a BUZZWORD
>just like, you know, your opinion, man

about something, I suspect strong opinions rooted in butthurt. Some people have heard games they like aged poorly and so reflexively hate the concept. Man, it's not a big deal. People talk shit. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's not like games are even that important.

Also, demographics. Show Citizen Kane to a modern audience and they'll be bored shitless on the whole, though some will enjoy it. Far more important than disagreement among people as to whether a game aged well or poorly is that most gamers are filthy casuals who regard essentially all old games to have aged poorly (perhaps excepting ones that look sexy as fuck through their peculiar nostalgia goggles). We can safely disregard their opinions.

There can be no notion of the classics without the implication of agedness. Classic has far more connotations than merely "antique". It means part of a corpus of prototypical excellence. Frankly, most old games fall well outside of this category. If a game was fun at the time but ceased being compelling since then, it means there was something about it we lacked perspective to correctly ascertain at the time: it has ''aged poorly''.

[Anonymous No.2118613]

>>2118609
A little addendum (lel 2000 char limit):

It also doesn't imply an index to time. We don't mean a game has aged like milk or wine. Just the opposite: a game ages well when it doesn't age at all. It stands as an eternal Platonic form.

[Anonymous No.2118623]

>>2118609
Nobody is upset that their favorite games have "aged poorly", but merely are confused because the concept of an art aging makes absolutely no fucking sense and the sudden mass occurance of the buzzword throws people off. Until very recently, videogames 'aging' was completely unheard of, and those who explain the theory do it poorly. Such as your post, I don't understand it. It isn't worth 2000+ letter essays explaining it though.

[Anonymous No.2118757]

Just got this game from GOG. Was wondering if there's anything I should do to take advantage of a more modern system?
What is the preferred control method? Gamepad? KB+M? How do you guys map the controls?

[Anonymous No.2118950]

>>2118623
It was unheard of only because nobody took games at all seriously until recently (now they're taken far too seriously). Even if "aged" is an awful word, which may be true, the named concept of eternal versus temporal works is prominent in art theory & criticism. It's not an idea I pulled out of my ass. Games aren't art but there are many parallels between the two.

>2000+ letter essays
Haven't been on 4chan in ages, and only come back now for /vr/. 2000 chars is barely even an effortpost, let alone an essay. Not everything needs to be a quasi-Twitter.

[Anonymous No.2118981]

>>2118757
This worked better for me than a joystick or gamepad after getting used to it, though I'm still pretty mediocre. I've seen some crazy speedruns on insane difficulty from other people who use keyboard only, though.

[Anonymous No.2118995]

>>2118623
>Until very recently, videogames 'aging' was completely unheard of
Uh... How recent is "very recent"?

In 2014, games from before 2004 are still widely enjoyed and critically acclaimed.

But in 1994, Donkey Kong Country refers to a game 11 years its senior like it were ancient history. Games on the NES called themselves "cutting edge" but as soon as the SNES came out, you could get NES games for $10 because the average consumer thought they were old-hat, obsolete, outdated... aged.

So if anything. the idea that games DON'T age is a modern concept.

[Anonymous No.2119146]

>>2118609
I don't think you're listening to my point. It's not simply that people disagree, it's that people throw out the "aged" claim with the self-assuredness that they're saying something more than simply "it's old and I don't like it."

It's not measurable, and moreoever the stupid thing about such claims is that they are highly dependent on how dumb and impressionable a person was when they first played. "I remember liking this a lot more than I do now, so clearly the game has aged badly" is a lazy way of trying to make your own preferences sound objective. Like, some people apparently have really shitty memories when it comes to the graphics in old games, and they always go "WHOAAAA I remember this looking SO much better!" I don't get the feeling, games pretty much always look the way I remembered them. And I mean we're on /vr/ for fuck's sake, the whole point of the board is about seeing value in games that most people say "lol look at that old piece of shit from like 1900 lol".

Saying "aged" is for people that want to weasel out of saying "I have trouble going back to this" or explaining what they think is so bad about it. Safer to just dismiss it as too old and busted to care about.

[Anonymous No.2119163]

did you come to /vr/ to argue semantics or do you actually want to talk about the fucking game? go and play the game, tell us what you think about it, then we can talk about your bullshit opinion.

[Anonymous No.2119180]

>>2119163

OP here, I regret the terms I used.

Trying to decide on which one to play. I'm leaning towards Descent 3 because it has the nicest looking graphics, but someone on this board said Descent 2 is the best one.

[Anonymous No.2119251]

>>2118757
Go forth and install this, my son.

http://www.dxx-rebirth.com/

Enjoy fragging at native resolution with full compatibility and modern controller support.

[Anonymous No.2119308]

>>2115530
Pretty fun from what I've played.

Music is fantastic, too.

[Anonymous No.2119569]

>>2117096
Somehow it's always fun seeing my birth day

[Anonymous No.2119624]

>>2119251
>>2118981
Thank you anons.

[Anonymous No.2119634]

>Come to learn about Descent
>listen to one anon who is hung up on idioms/phrases that no one else has a problem with
>That anon has aged like shit in a bag

So which is really the definitive version to play?

[Anonymous No.2119686]

>>2115641
this guy again. I started playing the first game again using it together with the keyboard. I think my control setup is mostly good:
default joystick view controls (yawing left/right, pitching up/down)
hat button for sliding
W/A for accelerate/reverse
Q/E for banking
R1 primary, L1 secondary weapon fire

but the weapon switching is so awkward. At the moment I have space bar for primary switching and the L3 for secondary switching. Maybe I just need to get used to it.

Also, is using throttle any good for Descent? I found it easier to have my left hand on the keyboard instead.

>>2119634
start with the first game using >>2119251

[Anonymous No.2119689]

>>2115530
im pretty sure they support mouse controls, though its quite imprecise
also try out forsaken while you're at it

[Anonymous No.2119692]

>>2119686
I meant hat switch/POV switch for sliding

[Anonymous No.2119701]

I haven't played descent since my adolescence, and I only played the PC version, but I used only a keyboard, and I beat it when I was 12.

So... yeah.

[Anonymous No.2119894]

You can play the Descent game nicely if you have an X-Arcade Dual Joystick setup or if you crunch all essential mappings to the 8 standard buttons and the Start/Coin buttons.

[Anonymous No.2119927]

They're pretty descent

[Anonymous No.2119935]

>>2119692
I tried that with my Extreme 3D Pro and it sucks. I mean it works, but my thumb starts hurting after a half hour or so. It's also hard to mentally coordinate hat switch sliding and regular use of the joystick on the same hand. The motions don't complement each other.

[Anonymous No.2119961]

>>2119935
>It's also hard to mentally coordinate hat switch sliding and regular use of the joystick on the same hand. The motions don't complement each other.
That was my problem too, I thought I just sucked at the game. Which I most probably do either way.
what's your setup? I just thought about putting the slide on WASD and accelerating with the joystick buttons instead.

[Anonymous No.2119974]

>>2119146
As stated before, old games age well or poorly even for new first-time players. You're just describing one particular bias that can color the invocation of agedness. It hardly discredits the concept. If it did, notions of quality fly out the window too (it's not measurable and people always always claim an objective position while arguing over it).

>And I mean we're on /vr/ for fuck's sake, the whole point of the board is about seeing value in games that most people say "lol look at that old piece of shit from like 1900 lol".
I half-suspected such partisanship. Look, I like old games, whether they're old or new to me. But there's a prominent retro gaming crowd that with a grandiose conception of the past: the myth of the golden age. The kind of gamer only at home when they play dozens of mediocre NES platformers accompanied by BACK IN MY DAY bloviation... On the polar opposite, filthy casuals who reflexively dismiss all old games out of prejudice, holding firm to the myth of progress.

These two views mirror Hobbesian and Rousseauian views of primitive man. As no surprise, both ended up being scientifically indefensible.

[Anonymous No.2119976]

>>2119961
>>2119935
How about doing dual joysticks?

Unless the game doesn't support it.

[Anonymous No.2120575]

>>2119927
You.

[Anonymous No.2120584]

>>2119961
you use a keyboard + joystick set up.

W- forward
S - backwards
A / D - slide left and right.

Ctrl - down
Space - up.

then the joystick controls pitch, roll and yaw (if you have a twisty).

otherwise use Q and E for roll.

[Anonymous No.2120914]

>>2120584
just tried that, works fairly well. Thanks

[Anonymous No.2120934]

>>2117240
No game is inherently good or bad, therefore any claims that a game "remains good" or "isn't good anymore" is equally fallacious, because it is (presumably) based on the opinions of the majority.

[Anonymous No.2121219]

>>2119974
>old games age well or poorly even for new first-time players
Bollocks. Most people have shit taste and are whiny babies. Perhaps you mean "most people agree with my preferences" in which case you're one of them.

>>2117240
>some games are timeless
Yeah well I think your favorite timeless game is actually an archaic piece of shit, how about that? And so will TONS of newcomers that won't watch a movie before 1990 either.

Saying a game is timeless or has aged well doesn't mean anything. It's just an attempt at making your preferences sound more objective because you're too lazy to explain what you think is good or bad about it. Either you still enjoy playing it because of [reasons] or you don't.

OP's sentence:
>Are the Descent games still worth playing today, or have they aged badly?
>Are the Descent games still worth playing today?

Absolutely zero meaning is lost.

[Anonymous No.2121598]

>Descentvalhalla is closed since two weeks
I can't defend materials like this

[Anonymous No.2122094]

>>2120934
>No game is inherently good or bad
I disagree. In fact, there's little point in talking about games if they have no inherent quality. Well, you can still have pissing contests, which are understandably appealing, but you've precluded any rewards for meaningful discussion.

>>2121219
>Yeah well I think your favorite timeless game is actually an archaic piece of shit, how about that?
That's fine. I'd hear you out, because my interest isn't oriented around partisanship and butthurt. Perhaps the level of discourse on games will never grow out of the schoolyard, though I've seen plenty of reasonable criticism of games I like.

>Are the Descent games still worth playing today, or have they aged badly?
>Are the Descent games still worth playing today?
>Absolutely zero meaning is lost.
Of course, the second part is redundant because he already invoked the same concept in the first.
Assuming twenty years is time enough to tell, he could equally have said
>Are the Descent games timeless?

The answer is yes, as Descent passes the simplest metric of timelessness: nobody really improved on the 6DOF FPS. Genres always go through additions and alterations, but when you have antique examples that are at least as good as anything after, you know it's timeless. Examples in other media- including the highly technical cinema- are legion. The only reason to exempt games is the broad childishness of gamers, which seems to be your hang-up. But for other media, too, the audience for older works is relatively small & serious. All your word policing achieves is to cede the discourse to children.

[Anonymous No.2122117]

>>2122094
To add a really offensive footnote:

I think the preponderance of butthurt in the discourse on games goes beyond mere childishness. Gamers gave up a good chunk of their developmental years to video games, and as such often have identities constructed around games they spent time with, in lieu of real personality. There's no distinction between criticism of one's childhood games and the actual self.

[Anonymous No.2122129]

good lord shut up

[Anonymous No.2122842]

Self destruct sequence activated

[Anonymous No.2123124]

>>2115530
pssh. The future is Forsaken.

[Anonymous No.2123645]

>>2116807

*tips fedora*

[Anonymous No.2123675]

>>2117040
>not playing Descent on CRT

[Anonymous No.2126363]

bump

[Anonymous No.2126416]

>>2117096
Screw that shit man, Don't compare a game to anything. Assess it on its on merit, whether you like a game or not should not be dependent on whether another game was good or not.

[Anonymous No.2126418]

>>2122094
>I disagree.
You might disagree, but you're still wrong.

[Anonymous No.2126473]

>>2126418
>claims victory
No, *I* claim victory!

[Anonymous No.2126602]

It's a fantastic series and you should play them if you haven't. An excellent combination of skillful movement, combat, and exploration. Joysticks are optimal, but not required, you can play through the game fine with just a keyboard, or M+KB, as long as you're not playing on the hardest difficulty where dispatching enemies quickly can really bite your slow turning ass.

[Anonymous No.2126914]

>>2118995
as in like three fucking years ago? what you describe is not age but devalue. that is basic economics and has absolutely nothing to do with the games data. regarding the donkey kong reference, that is just a nonintrusve story arch introduced later in the series. it again does not make the previous game any different than the year it was released.

games literally DO NOT AGE