/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2080804]

Let's talk Metal Gear, /vr/. What do you think of the original two Metal Gear MSX games? Or even the NES ones

I know a lot of people, myself included, consider Metal Gear Solid to be one of the absolute best PS1 games, but I don't hear a lot of chatter about the original games. A lot of that is probably because the second one was never released officially in english, and the NES version of the first game was pretty different. But even when they were included in the MGS3 Subsistence or HD Collection recently I know a lot of people who never touched them.

Personally I find the first game to be a bit rough, and not all that great. But the second one is definitely a great improvement in every way.

[Anonymous No.2080912]

I've played both on an msx emulator using english translation patches. the first one is very primitive (iirc you can walk into another screen and enemies won't be alerted anymore) and i remember it being very confusing. The second one is such a vast improvement (enemy AI, different floors which make noise, bosses actually needed strategy to be defeated now), I was really impressed.

[Anonymous No.2081043]

>>2080912
Yeah the first one could be a real pain in the ass at times with its vagueness. Also a lot of the gameplay elements people praise about MGS were first introduced in MG2.

[Anonymous No.2081053]

>>2080804
MG2 is very underrated, but I like GB more when talking 2D MG

[Anonymous No.2081062]

>>2080804
The first is hard to like as the misspellings that litter the game detract from the immersion it provides through it's game play. For that reason I haven't bothered with number 2.

[Anonymous No.2081084]

>>2080804
The first one, be it NES or MSX is pretty rough around the edges. Period hardware limitations I guess, and the fact that it got to be the first ever. A bold new experiment.

The 2nd one is so God damn awesome. They absolutely should've released it in the west. If not on MSX, then possibly port it to the Amiga 500 or MS-DOS or something, I'm confident it would've been a success on those platforms.

[Anonymous No.2081094]

>>2081062
Do the versions in the HD collection still have the grammar and spelling errors? If so there's always the fan translation I suppose

[Anonymous No.2081235]

>>2080804
>A lot of that is probably because the second one was never released officially in english
Wasn't it on the MGS3 Subsistence disc? Either way, fantastic game and easily my favorite game of the franchise.

[Anonymous No.2081247]

>>2081062
>>2081094
The Subsistence and HD version of the first game fixed all the errors and typos in the first game, and generally improved the translation.

>>2081235
Yeah I meant it wasn't released until Subsistence came out. Even then I know a ton of people that never played it though.

[Anonymous No.2081416]

>>2080912
>iirc you can walk into another screen and enemies won't be alerted anymore)
That depends on the number of exclamation marks that appear over a guard's head when discovered. Single exclamation marks means you're okay. Double exclamation marks means you're fucked.

[Anonymous No.2081457]

I liked MG2

I had to look up the tap code puzzles

[Anonymous No.2081686]

>>2080804
I only played these games through Subsistence like most Americans likely have now. I actually think they are the best in the series. With MG2 being the best game. I don't agree with you on MG. It just plays like a more inferior version of the sequel but it's still great. Also I definitely don't agree with your opinion on MGS1. Wouldn't have back then nor and especially wouldn't now. I truly feel it's one of gaming's true most overrated games ever released. Not a horrible game but vastly overrated.

To me the old Metal Gear games seem to play like a Metroid/2DZelda combination. It's much more linear than Zelda, closer to Metroid but has the top down 2D like Zelda. The games are also underrated although many people haven't or will never play them to ever know that they are surprisingly good. Of course this is just my opinion.

Metal Gear 2 has some of the best video game music I have ever heard. It's become one of my favorites of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mtawMrdUFE

[Anonymous No.2081697]

Gunna agree with most people here. MG1 is worth playing but pretty confusing and an overall lack-luster experience.
MG2 on the other hand is fun, interesting, looks great and has a tonne of cool ideas in it. Completed both years ago with subsistance, really enjoyed no.2

[Anonymous No.2082005]

I've been doing a lot of ironman runs for the 2D Metal Gears lately. With MG1 in particular, I played the game without removing the transmitter. The MSX2 version forces you to remove the transmitter when you reach the second building, so I might try the Hirake Goma code next time.

Anyone knows the Big Boss ranking requirements for the Subsistence versions and Ghost Babel?

[Anonymous No.2082664]

>>2081457
Pretty sure the tap codes were anti-piracy measures, because the cipher for them was in the manual.

[Anonymous No.2083098]

Played MG2 on an emulator back way in the day and MG1 when Subsistence came out. They're both solid games. I think the superior visuals, atmosphere and particularly music are what really sells MG2 over the original, but the gameplay developments are welcome.

I found MG1 much easier.

[Anonymous No.2084524]

>>2080804
To be honest the first one is the best stealth game I've ever played, tied with MGS3.

I couldn't enjoy the sequel as much, gonna give it a second try now that the thread was brought up.

Shame that the remake was shut down by fucking Konami.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/474584/fan-made-metal-gear-remake-shut-down-trailer-with-david-hayter-released/

[Anonymous No.2085297]

>>2084524
>To be honest the first one is the best stealth game I've ever played, tied with MGS3.
Really? I always thought the stealth aspect of MG1 to be too rudimentary, even after playing the superior MSX2 version. The game can pretty much be played as a straight shoot-'em-up considering how easy it is to milk out rations and ammo. At least MG2 gave enemy soldiers better eyesight and forced you to hide after triggering an alert.

[Anonymous No.2085309]

Officio Sanctissimo (On The Church in Bavaria) was an Papal Encyclical published by Pope Leo XIII in 1887.

[Anonymous No.2085959]

I love the attention to detail in Metal Gear 2.
>Character have individual sprites from facing left or right.
>Snake does a whole 180 turn when changing directions left/right or up/down.

[Anonymous No.2086496]

>>2085959
I just love the way sprites look.

[Anonymous No.2087312]

>Spent almost the entire afternoon doing an ironman run of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake on the Wii
>Do everything right until reaching the end.
>Fucks up at the end by falling into a trapdoor
Really want to do it again, but at the same time I much rather spent my time playing a game I've haven't beaten to death for the nth time..

[Anonymous No.2087950]

What would be the best emulator to use for MSX? Currently on a shitty laptop running XP due to my main PC being in the shop.

[Anonymous No.2087953]

>>2087950
OpenMSX if you want to emulate a lot + disk images, blueMSX for quick-n-ez cartridge games

[Anonymous No.2087994]

>>2087312
Same anon. Restarted my ironman run of Metal Gear 2, this time successfully. Took me a lot less time too, since I played like I've memorized everything. I'm disappointed the game didn't use tap codes for anything other than Codec numbers.

If I would rank the 2D Metal Gears, it would go like this.
Metal Gear 2 > MSX2 MG1 > Snake's Revenge > NES MG1

Will revisit Metal Gear GB to see where it falls, but I would imagine it's in the same tier as Metal Gear 2, probably higher.

[Anonymous No.2089379]

>>2080804
I played them on the MSX2 when they came out.
Metal Gear 1 felt really fresh and new at the time. MG2 was a great improvement, but unfortunately I didn't understand Japanese. Still a great game though...

[Anonymous No.2089662]

>>2089379
>I played them on the MSX2 when they came out.
Are you from the Netherlands.

[Anonymous No.2089724]

I just finished both of them (msx versions).

Imho Metal Gear 1 didn't age very well. I'd advise to watch some walkthrough on YT if you want to know how it was.

Metal Gear 2 on the other hand is pretty based. Very complex for such an old game, and it even have some really "strong" scenes (Natasha forever in my heart ;_;, also the last dialogue with BB). The only downside I can think of were some excesively complicated "puzzles" (take the egg...)

Also, both games have a little too much backtracking for my taste.

[Anonymous No.2089726]

>>2089724
>I'd advise to watch some walkthrough on YT if you want to know how it was.
>Ever recommending watching a playthrough over actually playing a game.
And they say /vr/ is less casual than /v/. What a load of bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2089736]

>>2089726
>less casual
I finished both of them. I addressed it mostly to typical normalfags. Some people just want to know the plot, and might not be interested in struggling with "not-so-good" old game.

[Anonymous No.2089742]

>>2082664
Pretty sure you're wrong

[Anonymous No.2089743]

>>2080912
> (iirc you can walk into another screen and enemies won't be alerted anymore)
There are actually two alert modes. One ! appearing means you can leave the screen and be fine; two appearing means they will pursue you.

This shit was still in MGS1 though, if you get caught in the armory before Ocelot's boss room you can just run to the next corridor and they forget.

[Anonymous No.2089748]

>>2089742
Pretty sure he's right.
http://gtinter.msxnet.org/Operate2.htm#P23
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hzk/kommander/mg2manual.pdf (jump to page 12)

[Anonymous No.2089754]

>>2089736
The thing is that most "normalfags" don't play old games that much. I'm pretty sure most people posting in a "retro gaming" board are aware of the archaic nature of the games discussed here.

[Anonymous No.2089763]

Echoing all other sentiments, MG2 is fantastic, and finally seeing all that backstory mentioned in MGS1 is crazy. (Although the Gray Fox fight is absolutely not "in a minefield," it's in a room where Gray Fox keeps planting mines.)

Snake's Revenge is kind of underrated. The music kicks ass. The cutscenes and plot are pure Metal Gear. The gameplay is...just okay, a little too crushingly difficult, but then it was probably designed for people who could beat the NES MG unassisted. The side scrolling areas suck. I like to pretend that MGNES, Snake's Revenge, Ghost Babel and the Acid games are all one continuity.

[Anonymous No.2089772]

>>2081686
your opinion sucks

[Anonymous No.2089783]

>>2089748
Kek. I meant about the DRM aspect.

[Anonymous No.2090007]

>>2089763
>Echoing all other sentiments, MG2 is fantastic, and finally seeing all that backstory mentioned in MGS1 is crazy. (Although the Gray Fox fight is absolutely not "in a minefield," it's in a room where Gray Fox keeps planting mines.)
Reading the plot summaries in MGS1 back when it came out gave me a completely different impression of the events in the first two games than actually playing them. Especially considering they left out all the weirder stuff like the Arnold androids and the venomous Zanzibar Hamsters. I don't really blame newer MGS fans for wanting remakes of the MSX games, but I could go either way.

>Snake's Revenge is kind of underrated. The music kicks ass. The cutscenes and plot are pure Metal Gear. The gameplay is...just okay, a little too crushingly difficult, but then it was probably designed for people who could beat the NES MG unassisted. The side scrolling areas suck.
I replayed Snake's Revenge recently. It does a lot of things better than the NES Metal Gear did, but the game has too many cheap gotcha moments (including mandatory alerts and unavoidable damage) and it's pretty easy to miss out on key tools (like the suppressor or the mine detector) due to its linear structure that prevents backtracking after certain points. Still, I can't help but think that Kojima was inspired by Snake's Revenge to come up with the Tanker chapter for MGS2. I wonder if we get to infiltrate a train in MGS V too.

>I like to pretend that MGNES, Snake's Revenge, Ghost Babel and the Acid games are all one continuity.
Snake's Revenge and Ghost Babel both branch out from Metal Gear 1 and I don't see them to be reconcilable with each other. The Acid games are pretty much their own thing.

[Anonymous No.2090728]

>>2080804
I just played mg2 on hd collection the other day, I was impressed by alot of aspects about things that would reoccur in the series later. Its all here in simple 2d

[Anonymous No.2090731]

>>2090728
Im also getting my body Ready for mgs5.I want to know everything

[Anonymous No.2090741]

>>2090731
Did you played MG1 too?

[Anonymous No.2090745]

>>2090741
Yeah yrs ago just been putting off sitting down with 2 no time. 2 improved in everything

[Anonymous No.2091029]

>>2089783
You don't think piracy was rampant on computer-based systems like the MSX2?

[Anonymous No.2091062]

>>2087950
I emulated MG and MG2 using PCSX2 by Subsitance disk 2. I want an official translation an it ran fine on toaster, my laptop barely emulate the real MGS3

[Anonymous No.2091070]

>>2091062
It sucks that every re-release of Metal Gear 1 and 2 has been Lucasfied, even the Wii Virtual Console ones. I prefer the original Engrish names for the bosses and the realistic character portraits in MG2.

[Anonymous No.2091789]

Pick your favorite.
http://strawpoll.me/3076727

[Anonymous No.2092102]

Im not a fan of game "remakes" but I would be against an update of MG1-2.

I could never get into the first one

[Anonymous No.2092165]

>>2091070
I agree, I would even want an option for the whole original translation.

[Anonymous No.2092273]

>>2092165
With the lorry that have started to move?

[Anonymous No.2092306]

I'm playing through the original Metal Gear on MSX right now and I can safely say it's far better than whatever the thing on the NES could be called, but it doesn't really have as much polish as MGS1 did in my opinion. I hear MG2 is very good, but I haven't played it yet. Looking forward to doing so, though.

[Anonymous No.2093675]

Is it just me or is Ghost Babel too hard to play without being spotted?

[Anonymous No.2093734]

>>2092273
Yes. I love that stuff, and Shoot Gunner etc.