Why hasn't someone tried to port Half Life to N64? It ran on the Dreamcast. If they wrote a custom microcode, they could solve a lot of the N64's performance issues.

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Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:27:43 2014 No.2063346 [Reply] [Original]

Why hasn't someone tried to port Half Life to N64? It ran on the Dreamcast. If they wrote a custom microcode, they could solve a lot of the N64's performance issues.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:28:49 2014 No.2063349 because n64 is shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:30:43 2014 No.2063353 It would be terrible. Like every PC port on N64. >>2063349 Just leave.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:34:34 2014 No.2063363
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>could barely run quake 2 with a lot of crappy texturing, no lighting, no music, lots of animation cut, crappy sfx
>HURR DURR WHY THEY DIDNT PORT HALF LIFE

Where are all these retards coming from? Leddit?

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:34:36 2014 No.2063364

>>2063353
>It would be terrible. Like every PC port on N64.
64Doom source port runs like a dream. But it works framebuffer black magic to bypass the Reality Signal Processor entirely.

The problem with the N64's Quake games was developers forced to work within the constraints of Nintendo's default N64 microcodes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:38:09 2014 No.2063374 >>2063346 Why don't you do it? It could be a good exercise for someone willing to get into homebrewing the N64 but other than that I just don't see it happening. It has no means to exist and I even doubt it would fit.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:44:38 2014 No.2063387

>>2063363
You clearly don't understand why Quake 2 (actually an original game running on the Quake 1 engine) was such a poor port.

"Quake 2" on N64:

12MB cartridge (N64 supported 64MB cartridges.)
Used the F3DEX ucode, which is almost identical to the vanilla "fast3D" ucode which is a pile of crap which crippled the N64's fill rate.

Today, we understand the N64 much better than those old devs. We have documentation they didn't have access to. We don't have Nintendo breathing down our necks banning us from altering the N64's ucode.

Homebrew projects have succeeded in getting the N64 to run at 640x480 while staying over 30fps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoO0Cif72vY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctLN3xptJhw

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:44:52 2014 No.2063389 Dumbest thread award of the year?

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:47:06 2014 No.2063392

>>2063374
>Why don't you do it? It could be a good exercise for someone willing to get into homebrewing the N64 but other than that I just don't see it happening. It has no means to exist and I even doubt it would fit.
What do we have in terms of HL1 source code? I've no doubt the N64 can run Half Life 1, but I've never seen Half Life properly ported to... anything, really. At least by homebrewers. The DC port was by Gearbox.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:49:58 2014 No.2063395 >>2063374 >Why don't you do it? I might know a fair bit about the N64 and engine stuff, but I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:51:31 2014 No.2063403 Why hasn't someone tried to port snk vs capcom 2 to the SNES? It ran on he ps1. If they wrote a custom microcode they could soulve a lot of the n64's issues.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:54:39 2014 No.2063408 File: 2.00 MB, 317x230, Oapn6kU.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why hasn't someone tried to port Crysis to atari2600? It ran on the pc. If they wrote a custom microcode, they could solve a lot of the atari2600's performance issues.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:55:19 2014 No.2063412

>>2063403
>Why hasn't someone tried to port snk vs capcom 2 to the SNES? It ran on he ps1. If they wrote a custom microcode they could soulve a lot of the n64's issues.
The SNES didn't use ucodes. Rewriting the N64 ucode is what gave us stuff like Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine and Battle for Naboo running at 640x480 and 30fps with no fog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNfnVWzsCH8

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:55:40 2014 No.2063416 >>2063387 >N64 to run at 640x480 while staying over 30fps kek, consoles have barely advanced in 15 years

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:57:24 2014 No.2063423 Why hasn't someone tried to port KoF 98 to the PS1? It ran on the NeoGeo. If they wro- Oh wait they did it, and it was fucking piece of shit. Only a sick fuck would play that version

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 22:58:20 2014 No.2063428 >>2063416 >PC MUSTARD RAIC BASIMGA >outside /v

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:00:32 2014 No.2063432 >>2063428 >consoles not being a shit platform for games with 10 times more deficits than benefits oh wait that never happened. arguably the difference was even more noticeable in the 90's than today but it still holds true

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:00:46 2014 No.2063435 >>2063423 >>2063423 To be honest kof 96 was even worse. God, you could make a full disney cartoon movie with all the animation they cut from the neo geo version.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:01:14 2014 No.2063438
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDoLhEk3waA

>mfw people say "That's obviously running on an emulator. It's so crisp and clear," and you remind them that Infernal Machine doesn't run properly on emulators so it has to be real N64 footage.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:03:59 2014 No.2063449 >>2063346 >rated Teen kek, Also for what purpose even though it might be possible at a very slow framerate with only a fourth of the actual campaign since the cartridge limitation is ass.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:08:04 2014 No.2063460 >>2063449 Implying it wouldn't run at a rock solid 30fps. Implying Half Life couldn't be compressed down to 64MB.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:15:18 2014 No.2063469

>>2063387
>Homebrew projects have succeeded in getting the N64 to run at 640x480 while staying over 30fps.

PS1 also does that, and those videos do showcase some missing hardware features the N64 was touted for using, like the Z-buffer, which I never did care about and they can disable god knows what if it helps performance. You also have to remind that a tech demo, while not more complex than a game is inherently easier for the console to sustain, and to make something as grand as HL without making extreme compromises would require both the expansion pack and some heavy streaming. You have to find someone really dedicated to do this.

To >>2063395, the reason why someone didn't try to port it is that complex microcodes don't grow up on trees and porting a somewhat complex game you don't even have the source code to is one big waste of time. Porting one or two levels at least, a proof of concept? That can be arranged. Porting the whole game though? Forget about it.

>>2063460
Yes, I'm implying just that, it would require an enormous amount of work and you'd have to make compromises. Neither Goldeneye and Perfect Dark ran at a rock solid 30 fps. Just because one game does it (credit is due to Factor 5) doesn't mean any game can.

Turok 3 ran at something like a GBA resolution.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:17:44 2014 No.2063472 >>2063346 For what purpose? To play it with that shitty controller? Half-Life assumes you can move and aim independently of each other.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:18:14 2014 No.2063473 >>2063346 I think HL2 on GameCube is more feasible.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:19:55 2014 No.2063475 It would probably have some difficulty running at a steady frame rate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:20:54 2014 No.2063476 >>2063469 >Turok 3 ran at something like a GBA resolution. It ran at 284x224 in normal resolution and 480x334 in high resolution. T3 is running at almost twice the pixel count of a GBA in normal resolution.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:21:21 2014 No.2063478

>>2063449
Most source games can be run at settings far below those used in the released version of the game.

Older models of the N64 could be used to get around the cartridge size limitation, because you can turn off the console, quickly switch cartridges for the next level, then restart the system. Data is kept in the RAM for thirty seconds after power-down in original-model 64s.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:23:51 2014 No.2063484

>>2063472
>For what purpose? To play it with that shitty controller? Half-Life assumes you can move and aim independently of each other.
It's like you've never played any of the N64 FPS games which allow you to move with the C-buttons and aim with the stick.

HL on Dreamcast used ABXY for movement and the stick for aiming.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:24:51 2014 No.2063485 >>2063476 Yeah, I blew the number up from memory, I just remembered it being lower than 320x224. I suppose high resolution wasn't really smooth.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:26:22 2014 No.2063487 >>2063484 >ABXY for movement and the stick for aiming That's how I played Quake 3 and UT on DC. My friends thought I was nuts, but it works well.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:28:45 2014 No.2063496

>>2063478
The N64 does have these things called memory cards, dude. Why do people always forget it had memory cards?

To port HL to N64:

>Drop texture quality.
>Compress as much as possible.
>Replace music with sequenced reproductions.

I think the factor which has crippled N64 homebrew stuff is that any really ambitious homebrew game is NOT going to run on stuff like Project64. 64doom doesn't run on any emulator besides MESS.

Secondly, we have no cheap way to make N64 clone cartridges partially because we need real CICs from real cartridges to bypass copy protection.

If someone could make cheap as chips N64 clone cartridges, there would be a real incentive for people to undertake serious projects using the hardware.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:32:18 2014 No.2063512 >>2063496 What's the problem with a flash cart? You need to customize the PCB to suit the program?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:35:59 2014 No.2063520 >>2063473 yeah, in DX7 mode.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:40:39 2014 No.2063538

I think people are underestimating just how much of a crippling effect the N64's ucode situation had on N64 game development.

Look at World Driver Championship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRPX02A9yY

Look at Stunt Racer, also by BOSS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km8BIEiNk5g

Games which drastically altered the N64 ucode were rare, but the benefits are extremely noticable. They tend to be a tad rougher looking, but they offer crisper visuals and generally have far higher framerates.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:44:13 2014 No.2063539

Now tell me: If the n64 could run half life(and that is a BIG IF) what is the fucking point of doing so? To play with the shittiest controller for 1st person shooters? Brag about how superior it is to the ps1.
Seriously, this is some autism that makes chris chan look normal.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:46:07 2014 No.2063541 >>2063538 Dark Rift ran at 60fps on N64 using the supposedly forbidden turbo3d ucode. I have no clue how the developers got away with it. Game isn't very impressive, but it shows that the N64's framerate troubles were mostly ucode related.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:48:13 2014 No.2063545

>>2063539
The N64 is a technological marvel and a fantastic console which very rarely got a chance to truly shine thanks to Nintendo's pig-headed policies. Getting it to run every single classic Doom game is one thing. (and has been done.) Getting it to run Half Life would be truly impressive.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:48:39 2014 No.2063547

>>2063539
So that the Usenet forums could have the 90's equivalent of "mfw PSfags will never, EVER, get HL". Probably would've looked like "Oh man, I love having my Nintendo 64 and playing Half Life, while GayStation users are still waiting at the loading screen of Final Fantasy 7! :)"

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:48:39 2014 No.2063548

>>2063539
I think it's more about the technical challenge, just to see if it's possible. I remember there was a modder who wanted to de-make Half-Life 2 and remake it on the GoldSrc engine. It never happened but it'd be interesting to see how it would turn out, though how the fuck they would handle the gravity gun is beyond me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:50:25 2014 No.2063551 >>2063539 Let me remind you that DICE spent actual money trying to port Battlefield 4 to the ipad.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:51:55 2014 No.2063554

>>2063547
There's no way HL would have been properly ported in the 90's. Nintendo were just too draconian when it came to altering the N64's behavior. Plus there were so many costs involved at the time regarding large cartridges and licensing compression codecs and all that.

Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:54:23 2014 No.2063563

>>2063554
That's funny, you'd figure with the PS1 running off with all of Nintendo's developers, they'd learn their lesson and do absolutely anything to get their developers back, or try not to lose anymore. The N64 was the console that introduced the phrase "you only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games", despite the NES and SNES birthing and nurturing dozens of third party IPs that Playstation got.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:54:58 2014 No.2063564 >>2063548 >how the fuck they would handle the gravity gun is beyond me Physgun? That could be a problem, but gravity gun? Come on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:56:08 2014 No.2063570 >>2063564 Someone made a Portal game for PSP using the Quake engine. http://www.moddb.com/games/quartal And a Minecraft clone called Lamecraft or Multicraft.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 12 23:59:17 2014 No.2063579 >>2063564 I guess it could work like the grapple gun from Opposing Force except make it so objects move toward you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:00:39 2014 No.2063582 >>2063496 Each cartridge would hold the data for one level. The RAM would store your status (ammo, health, etc.) between levels. There's no way to fit HL on a 64 cartridge.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:00:45 2014 No.2063583

>>2063563
I read somewhere that Nintendo hit some nasty snags. Natural disasters caused memory prices to skyrocket instead of falling, which caused a lot of 3rd party developers to opt for smaller cartridges. Plus they didn't trust 3rd party devs to not fuck up when altering the n64 ucode so all devs were banned from doing so until 1999-2000ish, by which time the N64 was kinda winding down. Then N64 was slow as hell taking advantage of Factor 5's technology. Very few games use their 1:15 ratio speech compression codec, for example. Most of them are kiddie games like Tarzan and Rugrats and Elmo. The World is Not Enough and Resident Evil 2 are the only non-Lucasarts games which used it, IIRC. Even Rareware used MP3 rather than Factor 5's stuff.

When the Gamecube came along, Nintendo got their act together and started pushing Factor 5's tech into games. Star Fox Adventures uses MusyX, for example.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:06:45 2014 No.2063592 >>2063582 It is true that compared to engines designed for the N64, Quake wasn't exactly efficient when it came to data usage.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:10:55 2014 No.2063603 The N64 is 64 bit. The Dreamcast is more advanced. Personally I'm more interested in people porting post-Dreamcast Sega games like Sonic Heroes onto the Dreamcast

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:12:30 2014 No.2063609

>>2063603
Could the Dreamcast handle F-Zero GX? Sure it's a Nintendo IP, but the game is Sega through and through. Gameplay, technical innovations, art direction, music, cutscenes, voice acting...I could've sworn F-Zero was a Sega IP if it weren't for Captain Falcon being in Smash.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:14:21 2014 No.2063612 >>2063603 >Personally I'm more interested in people porting post-Dreamcast Sega games like Sonic Heroes onto the Dreamcast The PS2 couldn't handle Heroes properly. I'm dubious the Dreamcast could do it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:17:37 2014 No.2063617 >>2063603 Bits mean next to nothing in this context.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:18:27 2014 No.2063618 >>2063564 Seriously? Goldsrc simply isn't capable of handling the physics that the gravity gun requires.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:21:02 2014 No.2063623 [DELETED]

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>>2063618
>Seriously? Goldsrc simply isn't capable of handling the physics that the gravity gun requires.
Yet an N64 game had a fully working physics engine.

BASED SUCKER PUNCH.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:22:31 2014 No.2063625
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>>2063618
>Seriously? Goldsrc simply isn't capable of handling the physics that the gravity gun requires.
Yet an N64 game had a fully working physics engine.

BASED SUCKER PUNCH.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:29:10 2014 No.2063638 File: 88 KB, 550x550, Gold_star_-_Don't_think_you_tried.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2063609 First F-Zero was for Snes

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:38:00 2014 No.2063649 >>2063346 >It ran on the Dreamcast OP have you seen the specifics of the dreamcast ? It was slightly less powerful than the ps2 but had other advantages over it. In short your comparison doesn't make sense.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:39:35 2014 No.2063651 >>2063649 Half Life also runs on a pentium 1 with no hardware accelerator.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:43:57 2014 No.2063664 >>2063638 Reading comprehension, man. Sure he mentioned smash, but if someone's first exposure of F-Zero was GX, it'd make a lot of sense for people to think it's a Sega IP. It has their speed, color, and git-gudness that defined Sega arcade games.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:43:59 2014 No.2063665 >>2063651 And ?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:45:14 2014 No.2063669 >>2063665 The N64 is a hell of a lot more powerful than a Pentium with no GPU acceleration.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:50:28 2014 No.2063681 >>2063669 The ones released in 95 were already twice more powerful than the N64, you have to specifically use one from 93 to say it's less powerful.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:53:10 2014 No.2063684 >>2063681 The N64 overall is far more powerful than a PC which is running everything on a 166Mhz CPU. The N64 isn't just a MIPS processor, you know. It has two processors. And the second processor, the Reality Signal Processor, is programmable.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:58:02 2014 No.2063693

>>2063684

Are you aware of the fact that on a pentium 200Hz it was possible to emulate N64 games at a decent speed ?

The n64 would be able to run half life, but with an horrible graphic, it wouldn't be able to do what an MMX was able to do even with an OS running.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 00:58:42 2014 No.2063695 >>2063684 Yeah well too bad the Pentium didn't have a fixed amount of RAM and the software render didn't have to deal with hardware bottlenecks.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:00:00 2014 No.2063702 >>2063693 >Are you aware of the fact that on a pentium 200Hz it was possible to emulate N64 games at a decent speed ? Truth be told, that was more of a Mario 64 emulator more than anything

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:01:19 2014 No.2063703 >>2063702 Still pretty impressive.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:03:40 2014 No.2063708

>>2063693
>Are you aware of the fact that on a pentium 200Hz it was possible to emulate N64 games at a decent speed ?
A handful. Poorly. Using extremely inaccurate HLE emulation. Most N64 games did not take full advantage of the hardware because Nintendo wouldn't allow it. Games which take full advantage of both processors require much more powerful hardware to emulate. That's why Mario 64 can run on a PSP but most other games can't.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:06:09 2014 No.2063713 I'm honestly more curios at the dreamcast. would many of the latter games released on ps2 be playable on the dreamcast ? With some downgrade here and there ?

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:10:01 2014 No.2063720

>>2063693
>The n64 would be able to run half life, but with an horrible graphic, it wouldn't be able to do what an MMX was able to do even with an OS running.
Delta Force in 1998 was the first game I played which required MMX, and its voxel-based rendering engine was fully software based.

Also, you know what required MMX? Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. And the N64 port of that game is visually superior.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:16:27 2014 No.2063731 >>2063353 n64 is shit. worst library of the 3 real 5th gen consoles. less than 10 good games

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:28:15 2014 No.2063753

>>2063731
You are so wrong it hurts.

Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Mario Kart.
The World is Not Enough.
Hybrid Heaven.
San Franciso Rush 2049
Shadow Man.
Turok 3.
Perfect Dark
Mario 64.
Donkey Kong 64.
Banko Kazooie.
Banjo Tooie.
Blast Corps.
GoldenEye.
Perfect Dark.
Diddy Kong Racing.
Mikey's Speedway USA.
Star Fox 64.
Vigilante 8.
Top Gear Rally\Rally 2\Overdrive\Hyperbike.
World Driver Championship.
Space Station Silicon Valley.
Rogue Squadron.
Battle for Naboo.
Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine.
Resident Evil 2.
Doom 64.
Sin & Punishment.
F-Zero.
Mischief Makers.
Kirby 64.
Beetle Adventure Racing.
Duke Nukem: Zero Hour.
Command and Conquer 64.
Destruction Derby 64.
Conker's Bad Fur Day.
Bomberman Hero.

Those are just the GREAT games off the top of my head. The N64 has so many more games which are controversial or awesome, yet flawed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:33:35 2014 No.2063760 >>2063753 He's right though, I only see 9 good games on that list.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:37:17 2014 No.2063763 >>2063760 I see a list of flawless masterpieces.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:38:51 2014 No.2063764
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>>2063346
Why hasn't someone tried to port Half Life to NES? It ran on the Dreamcast. If they wrote a custom microcode, they could solve a lot of the NES's performance issues.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:40:41 2014 No.2063767

>>2063753
>Destruction Derby 64.
>Beetle Adventure Racing.
>Resident Evil 2.
>Vigilante 8.
>Turok 3.
>San Franciso Rush 2049
>Mikey's Speedway USA.
>World Driver Championship.
>Diddy Kong Racing

Anon some of those are plain mediocre and others are present on pc or other consoles.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:42:27 2014 No.2063769 >>2063753 Not mentioning Majora's Mask\OOT. Not mentioning Harvest Moon 64. Not mentioning Goemon. Not mentioning Ogre Battle 64. Not mentioning Paper Mario. Nor Pilot Wings. Nor Rayman 2. Nor Snowboard Kids.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:42:55 2014 No.2063771

>>2063763
Get out of town, you didn't even include Pilotwings 64 and Rare games which are not DKR or PD are fucking anything but flawless.

If this is your idea of flawless masterpieces, then the PS1 has at least double as much, not counting obscure gems.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 01:47:44 2014 No.2063778

>>2063767
>>Turok 3.
Best Turok game.
>San Franciso Rush 2049
One of N64's best racers.
>Mikey's Speedway USA.
Better than Diddy Kong Racing. Fantastic racer.
>Resident Evil 2.
N64 port has best controls of any RE2 version.
>Beetle Adventure Racing.
Awesome game.
>Vigilante 8.
Also awesome, and superior to PS1 version.

Also, if being on other platforms discredit games, then people like to forget this when they list Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy VII as PS1 games.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:00:28 2014 No.2063789 >>2063753 >thinking most of those games are "great" absolute plebazord

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:05:42 2014 No.2063795 >>2063789 Explain why those games are less than awesome.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:14:10 2014 No.2063806

>>2063795
Not him but your 'awesome' looks like a pretty emotional hyperbole to me. How about you give us compelling arguments for each game before you elevate them as flawless masterpieces? You can still cop your way out by just admitting they're not bad, or even legitimately impressive for a good number of them, but not flawless masterpieces.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:26:26 2014 No.2063819

>>2063806
Almost all of them were acclaimed by both reviewers and gamers, looking at online scores.

Folks tend to forget about the only "less than awesome" reviewed game Rareware made for the N64 was Mickey's Speedway USA, and even that has a cult following.

The Top Gear games on N64 were all acclaimed, for example.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:28:37 2014 No.2063825 >>2063819 So you're basing you judgment over other people's opinions. Cool.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:28:50 2014 No.2063826 >>2063819 >>2063806 >>2063753 Destruction Derby 64 wasn't THAT great. Looking Glasses' other game, Command and Conquer 64, was very good, though.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:37:30 2014 No.2063838

>>2063753
>Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Excellent game which feels like a precursor to the underrated Epic Mickey games. You can even paint stuff.
>Mario Kart.
It's Mario Kart.
>The World is Not Enough.
Possibly the greatest Bond game ever made. Eurocom recycled a lot of concepts from this game to make the well-regarded Nightfire.
>Hybrid Heaven.
Wrestling. Manly, manly wrestling. With very Japanese scifi story.
>San Franciso Rush 2049
Excellent entry in the series and standout N64 racer.
>Shadow Man.
Great horror game from Acclaim's UK branch.
>Turok 3.
Best, least frustrating Turok. Rushed and buggy, though.
>Perfect Dark
It's just so perfect.
>Mario 64.
Best 3D platformer. Ever.
>Donkey Kong 64.
Rare collectathons are fun and comfy.
>Duke Nukem: Zero Hour.
One of the best Duke games.
>Resident Evil 2.
RE2 is a masterpiece.
>Conker's Bad Fur Day.
Excellent game. Conker is love.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:47:53 2014 No.2063852

>>2063819

>taking videogame reviews seriously

the blind nostalgia is very strong.

Seriously though most of the games you posted are just not that great or have very little replayability nowadays.

Here is my list of N64 exclusive games that are good enough to warrant going back and playing, disregarding nostalgia:

Goemon's Great Adventure
Super Mario 64 (only collectathon worth playing)
Hybrid Heaven (although dated, very unique)
Ogre battle 64 (unique part of series)
Sin+Punishment (unique part of series)
Star Fox (best star fox)

Games that almost make the cut:

Zelda (Adventure genre a shit, can see why people would include it though)
Blast Corps (Unique)
Yoshi's Story
Flying Dragon (exclusive only in US)

I think that's pretty much it. For the most part, the n64 was concerned with creating 3d games genres for the first time. Most of these feel hollow, bad controls, or have simply been improved upon so much to the point that these games just feel dated, and shit.

tbh the towns marty is a more interesting console than n64.

For playability today my ranking for 5th gen is:

saturn>ps1>Towns>n64>3do>jag

so half-life should be ported in that order.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:54:50 2014 No.2063863

>>2063852
I played The World is Not Enough and Rocket: Robot on Wheels last week and they're still masterpieces. Harvest Moon 64 is one of the best entries in the series. Paper Mario was acclaimed AGAIN when it was re-released on VC.
Rogue Squadron\Battle for Naboo are still both excellent games. I have a massive soft spot for Infernal Machine, but that's more controversial.

The N64 as a console was the first console to have a focus on "comfy" games, IMO. Games which weren't necessarily about challenge or gameplay but rather about a sort of zoned out cruise.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 02:58:28 2014 No.2063869 >>2063852 Is it even possible to have opinions this bad?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:00:27 2014 No.2063870 >>2063869 C'mon. His opinions are fine. I disagree with his overly negative view of the N64's library, but he's entitled to his view. People should feel free to share their views without being shouted down.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:00:50 2014 No.2063872

>>2063863
ah forgot to mention harvest moon. I prefer the ps1 version.

Paper mario is babby's first RPG. Watered down super mario rpg which was already babby level.

>world is not enough

the nostalgia though. During 5th gen, quake 3 arena was a thing... think about that

rogue squad/battle for naboo are pretty shit games.

robot was another entry in the terrible collectathon genre of adventure-platformers. Only acceptable one is mario 64 imo b/c of perfected controls and tight as fuark gameplay.

comfy games are RPGs. Easy action games are just lame. imo

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:04:27 2014 No.2063876 >>2063869 Thinking the n64 is anything but OK is in poor, unrefined pleb taste. I think it's because for alot of people it was babby's first gaymen experience.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:04:46 2014 No.2063879

>>2063872
>the nostalgia though. During 5th gen, quake 3 arena was a thing... think about that
Quake 3 is an MP-focused competitive FPS game. TWINE is a story-driven SP FPS game. They're completely different genres. Arguably, Quake was yet another mindless shooter. (Cue longwinded rant about how Tom Hall was right about story in games and John Carmack was wrong.) The N64 tended to have FPS games which were less about shooting and more about objective solving.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:15:43 2014 No.2063905

>>2063879
the engine for quake 3 is leaps and bounds ahead of anything on n64. Controls+gameplay are tight as absolute fuark and is the basis of many currently popular games - TF2 and the upcoming blizzard fps.

If you want some story just watch a movie or read a book. The gameplay is actually a bit better in both cases.

Single player FPS is a shit ezmode babby-tier genre, completely boring

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:19:08 2014 No.2063910

>>2063863

>The N64 as a console was the first console to have a focus on "comfy" games, IMO. Games which weren't necessarily about challenge or gameplay but rather about a sort of zoned out cruise.

Yeah because if you used the N64 controller too much it would break.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:21:51 2014 No.2063916 >>2063905 MP is literally the cancer killing videogames. But to each his or her own, I say.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:23:25 2014 No.2063919

>>2063863

>1996
>The N64 as a console was the first console to have a focus on "comfy" games, IMO. Games which weren't necessarily about challenge or gameplay but rather about a sort of zoned out cruise.

>2014
>"games based in reflexes are entitlement"
>"gameolay should be a secondary part in videogames"
>"we need emotional skilled games"

Good job, 64.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:23:26 2014 No.2063920 >>2063916 catering to casuals and making games easier is the cancer killing games. Sort of like the single-player FPS genre

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:23:40 2014 No.2063921 >>2063910 >Yeah because if you used the N64 controller too much it would break. The N64 is like a butthole. Some lube may be required before the fun starts.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:26:53 2014 No.2063927 >>2063919 The N64 has its share of rage-inducingly difficult videogames. It's just that it was the true home of games which were actually fun.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 03:35:44 2014 No.2063936
File: 676 KB, 1600x900, live-free-64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2063346
This is like the plot for the next Die Hard movie.
>Some evil mercenaries are trying to port HL2 to the N64 using mysterious, powerful microcode stole from the pentagon
>"THEY'RE STEALING ALL N64 GAMES FROM EXISTENCE, OMFG MICROCODE FIREWALL ABSTRACTION LAYER DYNAREC"
>"Anon's the guy who shut down NORAD with a laptop just to prove a point, and you think I'm scared of you?"
>"Yippee-ki-yay, motherfuckers"

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:00:13 2014 No.2063968 >>2063919 >The N64 as a console was the first console to have a focus on "comfy" games, IMO. wat Half of my N64 collection is about blowing shit up. I'd argue that the majority of games worth owning for the system are about...blowing shit up.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:01:24 2014 No.2063969 >>2063968 And blowing shit up is comfy. GoldenEye and Perfect Dark are both extremely comfy FPS games. They're arguably the definitively comfy FPS.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:02:21 2014 No.2063971 >>2063609 that game doesn't do anything the dreamcast couldn't handle besides graphics, so with that lowered i don't see why not, aside from control problems

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:03:27 2014 No.2063973

>>2063473
>>2063520
GameCube was actually a fully programmable, modern GPU. It's the originator of the R300 - and thus most modern Radeon - designs. (Some old SGI engineers broke off and formed ArtX to develop the successor to the N64, and got acquired by ATI halfway through.)

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:04:35 2014 No.2063975 >>2063969 I don't consider a game which has well armed homicidal guards comfy. Especially not on 00 Agent or Perfect Agent. You're entitled to your opinion, I guess. No matter how silly it is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:05:45 2014 No.2063978 >>2063778 those games both came out on the ps1 first and the ports are garbage lots of n64 versions of games came out at the same time and are often inferior to their ps1, DC or PC versions

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:07:23 2014 No.2063980 >>2063975 That's kinda my point. Agent is comfy. Perfect Agent is increasingly hardcore. Even the notoriously difficult Conker's Bad Fur Day came includes a cheat to make the game easier.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:08:39 2014 No.2063981 >>2063910 this fucking reproductions are almost the same weakness

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 04:58:33 2014 No.2064028

I have questions about microcode on the n64. I've never heard of them before what were they? Some kind of firmware with high level functions to control the hardware? Was it technically possible to alter or override them? How could it possibly mess the console and why didn't nintendo allow it? Was it possible to write directly to the metal or did you always have to use the microcodes?

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 05:12:10 2014 No.2064034

>>2064028
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics#Microcode

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode

Someone from BOSS (one of the few devs who created heavily customised microcodes) claimed that a likely reason Nintendo was scared of microcode alteration was that SGI had experience massive debugging problems from incompetent developers trying to improve performance but not really knowing what they were doing. Also, they wanted to ensure N64 games had minimum image quality.

Basically, the microcode is used to control the behavior of the Reality Signal Processor, which was the n64's co-processor intended primarily for graphics. Factor 5, by extensively re-writing the RSP's behavior, were able to do things such as using the co-processor for particle effects, a task traditionally handled by the main CPU. This was mainly used for snow and water spray in Infernal Machine and some water effects in Battle for Naboo.

The RSP can be used for all sorts of things if programmed. Audio, for example. (Something which normally ate up CPU time because the N64 had no sound chip.)

Because so many N64 games use slightly tweaked versions of the vanilla fast3D ucode from Nintendo, once this was reverse engineered, emulating all those games was relatively easy. Games which feature fully customised ucodes are extremely difficult to emulate because the N64's hardware must be emulated at a low level rather than using high level translation. Also, such games often relied on very precise timing between the two processors.

It has also proven possible to render graphics on the N64 without using the RSP at all. 64doom (homebrew Doom series port) creates pixels on the MIPS main processor, then draws them to the framebuffer. (This is similar to how the N64 rendered FMV on games like RE2.) Because N64 emulation is a mess, 64doom doesn't work on most emulators despite running flawlessly on a real N64.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 06:07:21 2014 No.2064071 >>2063764 put pc on the nes expansion board and problem solved.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 06:25:34 2014 No.2064080

>>2064034
Whoa that was an interesting read. I didn't fully understand everything in the second link though. Microcode would be like a translation layer between the hardware in the microprocessor and the assembly instructions, right? Also, is it really implyied that RISC processors do not use microcode? I thought every modern CPU did (while at the first half of the read). Also it looks like microcode programming requieres some kind of wizardy I wouldn't take for granted software studios may normally have (it seems to be totally hardware focused)

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 06:55:37 2014 No.2064107 >>2063392 Playstation 2.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 07:09:32 2014 No.2064113 >>2064107 The PS2 port was by Gearbox as well, wasn't it?

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 08:31:34 2014 No.2064164

>>2063364
>doom 64

...was a game that was never designed with vertical aim in mind. No old doom was....which means the tri-pointed tampon applicator controller was decent enough for it.

half life on the 64 would also have been so watered down in terms of features that it might as well have been like resident evil 2 on the game.com

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 08:54:43 2014 No.2064194 >>2063753 >>2063753 >resident evil 2 >n64 Have fun squinting your eyes to see the CGI and the cutscenes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 10:34:46 2014 No.2064310 Trolls and shitposters aside, wasn't the Dreamcast version of Half Life really bad and plagued with slowdown?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 10:42:43 2014 No.2064320 File: 63 KB, 500x500, 1413825386100.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2063708 >Most N64 games did not take full advantage of the hardware because Nintendo wouldn't allow it. Why?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 10:50:00 2014 No.2064327 >>2063349 >>2063731 >>>/v/

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 10:53:18 2014 No.2064331 >>2064310 The dreamcast version wasn't optimized, like at all. But it looked good.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:25:40 2014 No.2064361 >>2064320 see >>2064034

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:30:20 2014 No.2064365 >>2064310 The Dreamcast version's biggest sin was needing to be played on a controller with only one analog stick. On the left side. But yes, the framerate was shit. Regularly dipped to 15fps in the opening alone.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:37:00 2014 No.2064370 >>2063438 Does this game literally run on the OOT engine?

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:38:06 2014 No.2064371

>>2063612
Have you noticed how the ps2 doesn't run dreamcast ports well at all? They almost always run at a lower resolution or have reduced texture quality.

Getting the most out of PS2s weird hardware is a bloody nightmare, dreamcast is much easier to optimize for and has a pretty good GPU.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:40:18 2014 No.2064373 >>2063625 whats your point? Goldsrc is a finished engine and n64 is a console.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:43:34 2014 No.2064381 >>2064371 That's more a problem with shoddy port jobs than the PS2 being underpowered. Heroes in particular was a rushed job because Sega was told that they'd have to publish it on the PS2 if they wanted to be allowed to publish on Sony'

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:47:11 2014 No.2064385 >>2063484 >It's like you've never played any of the N64 FPS games which allow you to move with the C-buttons and aim with the stick. Ding ding ding. That's the stupidest setup since keyboard only.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:51:40 2014 No.2064390

>>2064381
The PS2 isn't underpowered at all, it's got very impressive internal bandwidth and a solid CPU.

It's still a very unusual platform to develop for compared to more traditional stuff, a REALLY well optimized PS2 game can do very, very cool things using all that bandwidth to make up for the PS2s low GPU memory and other shortfalls... however multiplatforms and games originally developed to run on other, more traditional platforms rarely run as well on ps2.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:53:07 2014 No.2064393 >>2063438 >5th gen console 3d >crisp and clear choose 1

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:55:25 2014 No.2064396 >>2064393 Saturn

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 11:58:18 2014 No.2064401 File: 1.75 MB, 957x4587, PS1 library.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2063753 and this list lacks of Wipeout and many other games.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 13:53:30 2014 No.2064551 >>2064310 The loading times are really bad. Takes long to load segments in comparison to PC. I downloaded a more optimized version that someone made but it's still around 10 seconds each time. Also only having 1 analog stick sucks.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 14:09:32 2014 No.2064574 >>2064401 How come crash team racing never got as much recognition as mario kart or even diddy kong racing? Seriously it is a much better game, with a much better flow and larger content, graphics and soundtrack...

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 14:14:00 2014 No.2064586 >>2064574 It never did? More people know CRT than Diddy Kong Racing, in my experience at least.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 14:17:08 2014 No.2064597 >>2064586 Outside /vr the n64 crap is all over the internet. Specially on youtube. NO ONE, NO ONE MENTIONS PS1 GAMES. Its like some obscure console. And its quite ironic because in some countries it outsell the n64 on a 10 to 1 margin.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 14:53:22 2014 No.2064679 >>2063753 >Duke Nukem: Zero Hour. >Command and Conquer 64. >Destruction Derby 64. >Conker's Bad Fur Day. Christ, scraping the bottom of the barrel, are we. I mean, I love N64 for unprecednentedly perfect first-party games, but fuck.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 15:02:52 2014 No.2064691 >>2064597 >some countries Anon, you probably mean in all countries, you should stop watching nintendo fanboy's channels.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 15:04:43 2014 No.2064693 >>2064679 >Conker's Bad Fur Day >Bottom of the barrel Pick one.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 15:17:21 2014 No.2064715

I get that you guys need to come over here and shit post /k/ and /pol/ to death because you hate the idea of people not believing or liking what you like, but why do you faggots have to come to /vr/ with all this nonsense? I'm pretty sure there's a GAMERGATE thread for you on /v/ to shitpost.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 15:28:08 2014 No.2064727

>>2064679

You forgot

>DK64
>any Top Gear game

Conker's is a pretty good game though.

>>2063767

What is your problem with DK Racing and Beetle Adventure? Even though I prefer other titles, they're very solid games. And World Driver Championship is far from being a GT killer, but still a pretty good game, I certainly would put it in my top 20 /vr/ racing games on that gen for sure. What bothers me on it is the N64 controller, it's not the better experience playing it without a Hori joystick.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 15:52:29 2014 No.2064760 File: 1.90 MB, 400x225, 1386092339549.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Destroy this thread ASAP

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 15:58:04 2014 No.2064772 >>2064691 Not in Canada, N64 always outsold PSX games. I think Canadians just aren't into Sony's edgy campaign.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 16:04:14 2014 No.2064790 >>2063438 Why wasn't this released?!

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 16:06:10 2014 No.2064792 >>2063771 PSX has at least twice as many good games, so what? Just play both, who gives a shit?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 16:10:53 2014 No.2064803 >>2063910 The N64 like all classic Nintendo hardware was indestructible. What Chinese knock-offs did you buy?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 16:34:50 2014 No.2064837 >>2064803 N64 control sticks are pretty notorious for wearing out.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 18:04:42 2014 No.2064973

>>2063432
I'm not going to assume you're a young'un, but my memory of 90s PC gaming is that A LOT of contemporary games ran like shit on the average consumer level Win95/98 machine, and getting them to work at all was a headache and a half. I never did get my Sidewinder controller OR my Nintendo-made joystick working, either. Not once. In any game.

Grtanted, I was a kid in the 90s and wasn't exceptionally good with a computer at the time, but my memory of gaming in the 90s is that console games WORKED, and there was a much better chance that your friends had one, and you could play games together on the same TV. We didn't have a near-perfect emulator for every system, around 50% of homes had a computer until the late 90s and even fewer had monster PCs, and most household computers were THE lone computer of the house, in mom/dad's office, and often mostly off limits to the kids, and even if you had a PC, playing console/arcade-style games was a pain in the ass with a keyboard, and you couldn't just slap any contemporary console controller into your soundcard and magically play without any setup like you can with USB pads today.

I personally agree that in 2014 PCs are the way to go, especially if you like old games, but owning and playing games on a computer were pretty different 20 years ago. It seems odd to me that you would say consoles were a shit platform in the 90s.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 18:10:34 2014 No.2064983 >>2064597 Good, price for games will not skyrocket and I'll enjoy my relatively obscure games.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 18:12:06 2014 No.2064989 >>2064803 cool meme

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 18:17:18 2014 No.2064998 >>2064790 It was released.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 18:43:45 2014 No.2065030 >>2063541 why would nintendo forbid the turbo3d ucode if it made the games run and look substantially better?

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 18:56:33 2014 No.2065052

>>2064772
Not true, just because you and all your kiddie friends at the time had n64s doesn't mean it outsold the playstation here. I bet if you had older friends you would be more familiar with the playstation, Canada was just as hyped by sonys advertising they had fucking FF7 ads on the skytrain in vancouver whole train cars dedicated to advertise final fantasy 7 kid.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 18:59:00 2014 No.2065060

>>2064837
This and fuck the bubblewrap kids that think otherwise. "Well you just mishandled your controllers mine are all perfectly functional" Fuck you shitty n64 kid you own that console for hipster cred and never touch it anyway. That just really really makes me angry people actually accusing your of abusing your possesions when the sticks themselves were just shit

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 19:16:22 2014 No.2065090 >>2064693 >my toilet humor masterpiece There's only one good collectathon on n64, which is mario 64. everything else is substandard in comparison. If you want to include zelda in that genre, then there is two

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 19:24:34 2014 No.2065104 >>2065090 conkers isnt even a collectathon though its more like a linear action adventure game

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 19:29:30 2014 No.2065112 File: 5 KB, 145x130, 1413513652556.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2063731 >why don't they port game to n64 >because the n64 has a shit library you retarded or somethin?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 19:38:34 2014 No.2065131 >>2064837 I think if you avoided Mayo Party games, you should be fine. I've played my N64 for long looooong periods of time, I still have it... and didn't really take care of it obsessively, and the analog is only a tiny bit jiggly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 19:46:03 2014 No.2065142 >>2065112 the irony. did you even read the previous posts?

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 19:52:54 2014 No.2065157

N64

Better exclusives
Built in multitap
Cheaper
Less loading times

PS1

Better catalog of games
Better controls
Uses CD
Better sales
Games can still be reproduced by burning them
and using a mod chip

Sorry but the PS1 was better. Theres no discussion here.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 19:58:08 2014 No.2065171

>>2065157
I wouldn't even say that the n64 had better exclusives, I thought 2.5d crash was WAY more fun than anything on the 64 I was a 64 owner too. How is OoT, or Mario 64 really objectively better than a lot of top tier PSX games? It's the opinion of n64 fanboys their system had better exclusives.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 20:09:09 2014 No.2065201

>>2065171

>How is OoT, or Mario 64 really objectively better than a lot of top tier PSX games?

because there were launched first than those top tier PS1 games. Its not the same creating something completely good and original than making something good but having a reference to make it. Im a PS1 guy but i have to admit the platformers and adventure games on the N64 are awesome.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 20:20:26 2014 No.2065224

>>2065201
being the first to do something means jack shit. n64 kid logic dictates that n64 games are better because they may not be as refined or polished but they were there first and that is what matters. Come on man doesn't that sound stupid when you say it out loud.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 20:34:51 2014 No.2065253

>>2065224

being the first its not important. Being the good first is the important thing. Wolf 3D was a decent FPS but nothing special. Doom was the first great FPS and for that reason is still the best or at least in the top 3. After Doom theres hundreds of FPS made, maybe some of them have better design and graphics, but Doom is still better because he started the thing. Same with GTA 3 or Half Life 1/2 or SoTN. The first step is always the hardest one.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 20:43:33 2014 No.2065269

>>2065253
>Doom was the first great FPS and for that reason is still the best or at least in the top 3

Not trying to sound offensive, but you could use a quick session of http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/, so we can actually stop arguing thin air.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 20:46:52 2014 No.2065274

>>2065171
Crash was better by a fucking mile than Mario 64. It's just that the N64 was babby's first console for pretty much every modern gamer and they have flawed memories of that clusterfuck as being good, plus Nintendo viral marketed/hyped the living hell out of that game and paid reviewers to give it 100/10 scores.

It's really an abysmal game with poor controls and a laughable camera. It's definitely doable if you've been playing it all your fucking life and gotten its crappy controls into your muscle memory, but that doesn't make it good -- if that's what it took to make a game good, I'd say that ET for the 2600 was a good game because I can beat it every single time now, too. Fortunately I am not ruled by flawed, rose colored glasses memories of my youth playing a shitty game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 20:48:21 2014 No.2065275 >>2065269 Not trying to sound offensive, but if you don't think Doom is still the best FPS ever created, you're a piss poor gamer.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 21:02:53 2014 No.2065297 File: 22 KB, 420x420, baby-boy-crying-photo-420x420-ts-56570356.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2065275 >"someone doesn't share my opinion! ad hominem!"

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 21:03:35 2014 No.2065298 [DELETED]

>>2065275
Not trying to sound pretentious, but if you still use "gamer" unironically you're beyond help.

>>2065274
Now let's just not be this harsh, Mario 64 has its merits, Crash has its own.

Mario really nailed 3D platforming by giving a really good freedom of control and exploiting tools you're given to reach any place by your skill alone, a thing that I desperately like in any 3D game.

Crash gave an unprecedented visual presentation and pushed the PS1 beyond what people thought it could do, offering a great amount of varied challenge/gameplay and basically becoming the of linear platformers.

Mario is open challenge, Crash is organized challenge.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 21:06:09 2014 No.2065305

>>2065275
Not trying to sound pretentious, but if you still use "gamer" unironically you're beyond help.

>>2065274
Now let's just not be this harsh, Mario 64 has its merits, Crash has its own.

Mario really nailed 3D platforming by giving a really good freedom of control and exploiting tools you're given to reach any place by your skill alone, a thing that I desperately like in any 3D game.

Crash gave an unprecedented visual presentation and pushed the PS1 beyond what people thought it could do, offering a great amount of varied challenge/gameplay and basically becoming THE linear platformer.

Mario is open challenge, Crash is organized challenge.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 21:17:44 2014 No.2065320

>>2065305
What should I use? For fuck's sake, you kids are so insecure and pretentious about things that you won't even call yourself what you are?

That's just pathetic.

Also:

I do admit SM64 had a good concept of freedom of movement but the execution was just horrible. The controls and camera to allow this freedom just wasn't good enough, and the limits of the system meant you had to rehash the same levels over and over -- admittedly doing different stuff and going to different sections and sub-levels on occasion but it felt way too repetitive.

It was a good idea with horrible execution, and just wasn't a good game.

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 21:32:45 2014 No.2065342
File: 14 KB, 300x309, kamiya_crop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2063919
>the N64 gave birth to SILKY SMOOTH 30FPS
>the N64 gave birth to console FPSes
>the N64 gave birth ezmode games
>the N64 forced multiplayer into every game made
>despite the N64's massive shift in the market, Nintendo is hardly even acknowledged these days

Bravo, Yamauchi.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 13 21:49:42 2014 No.2065357 >>2063538 this is fascinating, thanks for the examples and everyone else in the thread posting cool shit

Anonymous Thu Nov 13 23:18:29 2014 No.2065514

>>2065030
Turbo3D is a heavily cut down ucode. It was used in one fighting game that I know of, which ran at 60fps. Games from Factor 5/BOSS used heavily optimised ucodes, but they didn't use turbo3D.

http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/n64man/ucode/gspTurbo3D.html

No clipping.
No dynamic lighting.
AA is broken.
No perspective correction for textures.
Plus some other performance-improving reductions.

Turbo3D was of limited use, but it could have proven useful for 2D games, for example. Alternatively, Nintendo should have gotten off their lazy butts and worked with developers to come up with a new set of ucodes which were more suited to individual games. Most N64 devs basically had a dead elephant tied to their game.

Z-buffering was also a massive performance drain on the N64. It was almost universally used. Even Turbo3D has it. Z-buffering has many uses, but it is primarily used to ensure that objects are sorted correctly based on depth/distance. Lacking Z-buffering, the Saturn/PS1 hardware were prone to z-fighting. Let's say you have a wall. Then you have a decal on that wall. Z-buffering prevents the decal flicking because the renderer can't decide which object is closer.

I recall reading that Rareware screwed around with the precision of the N64's Z-buffer with Perfect Dark trying to improve performance. Factor 5/BOSS scrapped the z-buffer altogether in their later games.

Various N64 games had non-kosher behavior. The World is Not Enough has no anti-aliasing. Some games don't apply bilinear filtering to everything. The problem was the N64 was horribly documented. These documents I'm linking to are from 1999. Key stuff devs should've been told about from day one.

Info on Fast3D:
http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/n64man/ucode/gspFast3D.htmln

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 01:05:03 2014 No.2065760 >>2065342 agreed on all points. n64 was a shitty turning point in the history of vidya

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 01:07:27 2014 No.2065765 >>2065342 >>the N64 gave birth to console FPSes >>the N64 gave birth ezmode games >>the N64 forced multiplayer into every game made These are all objectively false statements. Jesus.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 01:34:26 2014 No.2065805 >>2065342 >the N64 gave birth to SILKY SMOOTH 30FPS >N64 >30FPS Try 20FPS, bucko.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 01:45:44 2014 No.2065823 >>2065765 I'm not that guy but can you really name an FPS developed specifically for consoles in mind that was made before the n64. Sure the SNES had doom and super 3d noahs ark but those were ports of PC games.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 03:45:47 2014 No.2065980

I only have one question. What would impose the biggest challenge for this hypothetical HL port to the N64? Is the N64 even strong enough to handle a game like this? Or would it be storage space, like with every other N64 game? I was thinking that this game would run at a reduced resolution (320x180) to save computational time, and also run at a cinematic 24FPS to save further cycles.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 03:48:43 2014 No.2065984 File: 8 KB, 600x383, halo_2600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2063408 Hey, it worked quite well for Halo.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 04:22:07 2014 No.2066008
File: 31 KB, 180x180, OHMAIGAH.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Holy fuck, was expecting more interesting tech documentation and facts about N64 and it's only a bunch of babies fighting about PSX vs N64 again.

Thanks based ones who actually cared about information.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 04:41:12 2014 No.2066019

>>2063387

> Implying tech demos mean anything in regards to how well actual games can perform on native hardware

Show me that NSX scene again, only this time with a menu backend and five other opponent cars and AI and physics and a background that isn't completely flat all running at once at 640x480 at a steady 30fps and then I'll be impressed.

>>	Zangief !!YG0uo46UrxQ Fri Nov 14 04:42:01 2014 No.2066021 File: 14 KB, 200x281, Virtualprowrestling2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2063753 You forgot to mention one of the greatest fighting games ever made

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 05:05:55 2014 No.2066050

>>2065980
>I only have one question. What would impose the biggest challenge for this hypothetical HL port to the N64?
Storage space. Packing the game into 64MB would be rather troublesome because GoldSrc wasn't designed with compactness in mind.

However, I think it would be feasible to create a REMAKE of Half Life on a custom engine, kinda like how Duke Nukem 3D on Saturn ran on the Slave Driver engine. Look at Eurocom's engine for The World is Not Enough. It easily rivalled GoldSrc in terms of map size and scripted events and all that jazz. (Oddly enough, Gearbox used modded GoldSrc when making their version of Nightfire.)
>Is the N64 even strong enough to handle a game like this?
Yes. You would however run into classic N64 bottlenecks very fast if using a generic ucode. You'd also need to find ways to balance the load between the CPU and RSP. Very few game developers did this effectively.
>I was thinking that this game would run at a reduced resolution (320x180) to save computational time, and also run at a cinematic 24FPS to save further cycles.
If one was trying to drop resolution to claw back fill rate and such, 280x220 would be a better resolution. This is roughly what stuff like Turok 3 and Conker's Bad Fur Day and Star Fox 64 were running. Often such games had noticable borders.

However, I don't see why the game couldn't run at 480x360, which was Acclaim's preferred high resolution. Most of the N64's problems running at higher resolutions came from fill rate issues. In fact, the N64 as a console generally hits a fill rate wall long before it hit a polygon count wall. If one were to port Half Life to N64, you'd have to create a ucode tailored to the game, just like Factor 5 and BOSS and even Rareware did. Z-buffer would probably have to go. The N64 can do all sorts of interesting tricks. It can run MP3. It can decode JPEG. IMO, the N64 was the first console to demonstrate "coding to the metal".

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 05:08:53 2014 No.2066054 >>2065984 Halo was originally a Mac game. Then it was a Dreamcast game.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 05:56:36 2014 No.2066115 >>2066008 >I expected /vr/ not to be full of babies Sorry to hear you've been on a coma the last 12 months.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 06:51:24 2014 No.2066152 >>2066115 Feels bad, man. I'm sorry too

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:06:29 2014 No.2066170 >>2066054 Halo was never a Dreamcast game. It was going to be a Mac exclusive (Bungie being the people who made the Marathon games) until Microsoft saw potential and grabbed the shit out of them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:07:59 2014 No.2066172 >>2066170 >Halo was never a Dreamcast game. Yes, it was. After they abandoned the Mac, Bungie were working on Halo as a Dreamcast\PS2 game. Then Microsoft bought them out.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:11:09 2014 No.2066183 >>2066172 No they were not. The "Halo on Dreamcast" rumor was started by a magazine that posted a tiny blurb about the game that was basically a glorified "wouldn't it be great if..." piece.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:14:12 2014 No.2066185

>>2066183
Yes, it totally was. At least that's what "sources" inside Bungie claimed when Rockstar was the publisher.

http://ign.com/articles/2000/05/12/halo-5

>The status of Halo for the PS2 remains a little foggy, since no formal declaration regarding its debut outside of the PC has been made. For those that read IGN on a regular basis, however, it has been known for quite some time that our sources inside Bungie have disclosed that console versions (for both the PlayStation 2 and Dreamcast) have been in production for quite some time now and that an announcement revealing the set-top Halos is just days away. Publisher Rockstar Games has also gone on record by stating that the PS2 is the most likely console that Halo will appear on and that 2001 would be the year that it does.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:26:39 2014 No.2066201

>>2066185

When a gaming magazine says "sources inside [company]" it's code for "we're making shit up".

I could email Kotaku right now with a throwaway gmail account and claim to be a Valve employee and tell them that HL3 is going to be a WiiU exclusive and they would run an article about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:30:16 2014 No.2066205 >>2064401 >all those inferior fighting ports dreamcast was best console for fightan in those times

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:35:26 2014 No.2066210 >>2066021 >wwf no mercy for weebs >>>>/420chan/wooo/

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 07:41:07 2014 No.2066221 File: 38 KB, 540x405, jeffry-congrats.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2066205 No joke. Between the Saturn and the DC, Sega had their shit together if you were a fighting game fan in the 90s.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 08:09:04 2014 No.2066250 >>2063538 Those are actually very impressive.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 08:22:52 2014 No.2066267 Let's go even deeper. Could the saturn run an half life port ?

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 08:27:17 2014 No.2066273

>>2066267

Well, people said that the PS1 couldn't run Quake, and then Lobotomy ported Quake to the Saturn (and it was significantly better than the terrible N64 version) and Hammerhead ported Quake 2 to the PS1, so who the hell knows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA9km4aHjzI

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 09:00:04 2014 No.2066308

>>2064973
>and you could play games together on the same TV
there were quite a few games on PC that had splitscreen multiplayer, in addition to networked multiplayer
>the joy of neighbor bringing over his PC to play duke3d in co-op or dukematch

>I never did get my Sidewinder controller OR my Nintendo-made joystick working, either. Not once. In any game.
anecdotal
my joysticks always worked, at most they needed calibration which wasn't neither hidden nor difficult (all it was is "move top left and press button, move bottom right and press button")
setting up soundcards and drivers for MS-DOS was the only significant difficulty of PCs i remember

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 09:03:58 2014 No.2066319

>>2066273
>Well, people said that the PS1 couldn't run Quake, and then Lobotomy ported Quake to the Saturn (and it was significantly better than the terrible N64 version)
Not that I'm disagreeing, but I just want to point out that N64 Quake was actually running the real quake engine where saturn quake was running on an engine more closely related to Duke3D. Quake was the first "real 3d" fps on PC and they remade it in the best "fake 3d" engine. I find that amusing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 09:09:11 2014 No.2066323 >>2066319 The SlaveDriver Engine actually render in real 3D.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 09:40:55 2014 No.2066353

>>2066319

The N64 version of Quake was garbage. It had the hideous blurry textures that are common in every N64 game, and also pushed significantly less level geometry compared the the Saturn version. It also lacks the fantastic brooding soundtrack.

As a side bonus, in the N64 version they lowered the player height in-game to child/manlet size for some reason.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 10:00:02 2014 No.2066374

>>2066353
>The N64 version of Quake was garbage. It had the hideous blurry textures that are common in every N64 game, and also pushed significantly less level geometry compared the the Saturn version. It also lacks the fantastic brooding soundtrack.

Like I said, not disagreeing. The Saturn couldn't do the Quake engine so they had to make a saturn version that ironically was better than the real engine used in the N64. There's a comparison video I saw on youtube that points out all the flaws of the N64 one, many of which are actually in GLQuake but fixed on the Saturn.

>As a side bonus, in the N64 version they lowered the player height in-game to child/manlet size for some reason.
Sure that wasn't just PAL shrinkage or something?

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 10:23:46 2014 No.2066391

>>2066374

>The Saturn couldn't do the Quake engine

You tried to say that the Saturn version of Quake wasn't "real 3d", and you were wrong.

The Slavedriver engine is a full 3D engine, not 2.5D like the Build Engine. Duke Nukem 3D on the Saturn was ported from Build to Slavedriver.

Basically you don't know what you're talking about.

Other than Doom (which had a godawful rushed and lazy port) the Saturn had the definitive versions of PC FPS games during the mid 90s:

> Powerslave
> Quake
> Duke Nukem 3D
> Hexen

etc tended to have either better level geometry or better framerates on the Saturn.

Although honestly Duke is probably better on the PS1 due to the extra Plug and Pray episode that was added.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 10:48:14 2014 No.2066412 >>2063346 That would be a cartridge full of special chips and RE2 tier compressing quality at minimum, It would also control like shit with the N64 controller.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 11:23:23 2014 No.2066450 >>2063346 Because that's a stupid idea.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 11:29:05 2014 No.2066457 >>2066391 Plug n Pray was such an awesome episode and I'm glad it's getting ported to PC.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 11:46:07 2014 No.2066482

No way, Jose. They thought about porting Unreal to N64 early in the game's development but there was no chance. Half-Life is a bit less taxing than Unreal, but it is too much for the N64. Quake II was hard enough on the N64. There's no reason you can't run the game at 320x240 though, at least on PC it works.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 12:02:09 2014 No.2066498 >>2065823 Zero Tolerance and Bloodshot say hi.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 12:48:28 2014 No.2066540 >>2065342 >no >snes had those >nes had those >what are you even saying >just stop

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 12:51:55 2014 No.2066543 >>2066540 >no Implying a single n64 game can hold a framerate above 30.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 13:04:55 2014 No.2066551 >>2063753 You forgot Super Smash Bros.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 13:25:40 2014 No.2066586 >>2066543 That's not what he was implying...

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 14:45:41 2014 No.2066697 >>2066543 Super smash bros and F-zero x both run at 60fps, there are others but don't have a list in front of me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 14:46:54 2014 No.2066703 >>2066697 >F-Zero X You see the sacrifices they had to make to reach that, right/

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 14:47:30 2014 No.2066706 >>2066201 Do it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 14:50:45 2014 No.2066716 >>2066703 It's a good game, but it's most noticable in the vehicles. >triangle >triangle >square >triangle >wider triangle >square >two triangles Name the ships if you can.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 14:55:23 2014 No.2066724 >>2066551 100% improved in melee. not much debate there. I wouldn't consider it an exclusive

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 14:56:55 2014 No.2066726 >>2065765 n64 babby butt rage

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 15:01:23 2014 No.2066735

>>2066703
Not really, the game runs silky smooth with 30 racers on screen with split screen multiplayer. The graphics were toned down but I think it was a really good decision for the devs to focus on speed rather than textures/polygons.

Considering 90% of 5th gen games that ran at 60fps were either 2d or 2.5d it stands as a pretty impressive achievement for the time.

>>	Craig Fri Nov 14 15:02:35 2014 No.2066736 i like video games

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 15:05:29 2014 No.2066739 >>2066735 Oh, I absolutely believe that it was a good idea to focus on framerate (i.e. something that tangibly and directly affects gameplay) rather than making everything high detail. But the graphics were crap because they focused on performance.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 15:09:57 2014 No.2066740 >>2066716 I'll try >King Meteor >Queen Meteor >Mr. EAD >Death Anchor >I guess Space Angler >Green Panther >Twin Norita or something

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 15:13:38 2014 No.2066743 >>2063346 Are you retardedly implying that the dreamcast performs similarly than the n64?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 17:33:51 2014 No.2066976 >>2066205 You're reminding me of how the Battle Arean Toshinden games has superious PC ports that fix/refine the cotnrols.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 17:42:18 2014 No.2066991 >>2064574 >2 player only

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 17:45:14 2014 No.2066996 >>2066991 You never owned a multitap?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 17:51:25 2014 No.2067009 >>2063389 Well I'm pretty sure you're a contender for shitpost of the year anyway.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 17:57:03 2014 No.2067023 >>2063432 Fuck off, my NES, SNES, Game Boy, N64 all still play their games fine without any issue, how do you think my 90s PCs are holding up?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 18:06:22 2014 No.2067038 >>2063346 Man it would be a fog fest if anyone even tried

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 14 18:12:57 2014 No.2067049 >>2066996 Not him, but I had two.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 18:16:56 2014 No.2067053

>>2066482
You're ignoring that the entire problem with stuff like Quake 2 boils down to the N64's default ucode being dogshit and Nintendo forbidding 3rd party developers from altering it to improve performance.

The only games which accurately reflect the N64's performance potential are games which customised the ucode. Rareware stuff doesn't count because they didn't care about framerates 90% of the time.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 19:44:37 2014 No.2067191

If this thread is any indication, the N64 was, in theory, a very powerful machine that was rarely utilized to it's full potential. This was due to the N64 being a more expensive platform to develop and publish for, the N64 having a measly 23% of the marketshare, and Nintendo not allowing any tampering with the machine's ucode. So the console was fucked regardless, which paved the way for Sony to dominate the market for two generations straight.

Anonymous Fri Nov 14 21:16:42 2014 No.2067386

>>2063387
>WE understand the N64 much better than those old devs.
>WE have documentation they didn't have access to.
WE don't have Nintendo breathing down out necks banning us from altering the N64's ucode
Why haven't YOU ported it? First you need to know that both Nintendo AND Valve are run by Jews and would very likely still send you C&Ds. Next, ask yourself if it would even be worth it. There is not a single exclusive first person shooter on the console that wouldn't have benefited from being on the computer, which is why ports of N64 games are often fanmade. Half Life is already on the PC, why even go through the trouble of porting a game, for free, that most people couldn't run on the original console without a flashcart? And anyone running it on an emulator would just be a fucking retard because they are already on their computers. Not only that, but the source for Half Life isn't available. People who port games either gain EXCLUSIVE access from the developers the source files, or they would reverse engineer the code, which again isn't fucking worth it for a shitty fanmade computer-console port. Nobody even wants to port Quake 3 to the N64 even though it's source is actually available because it is a waste of fucking time. You are the faggot that wants to see the project done, do it.

Anonymous Sat Nov 15 04:35:06 2014 No.2067997

It was a good system, but the texture memory was shit, in all honestly. There's an entire wiki article on the workarounds needed by the programmers of the time, including how many games streamed textures on-the-fly from the cart since it was solid state.

Anonymous Sat Nov 15 06:25:06 2014 No.2068081
File: 198 KB, 1023x983, N64_controller.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2064320
Because when you got into the first era of 3D, there was a lot of fuss about technical superiority.
And they competed with the PS1 and SEGA console, one which had polygon warping and the other used quads instead of tris.
So basically
>The initial batch of documentation was 3/10 good
>They didn't trust a lot of developers with custom microcode because often it was just them skipping features, and go straight for PS1 visuals with no good gains
>Devs was fucking shit at writing microcode, since it could blow up
If you did write Microcode, it would in most cases be accepted, so long it didn't go for skipping image quality. Bad documentation didn't help.

>>2064034
Post of the thread?

>>2065342
>3D addons for the SNES and Megadrive
>PC, but Doom was good
>Thats older
>Valid point
>lel

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 15 06:59:16 2014 No.2068112 >>2064401 rayman 2 for ps, i cant belive did people even know the ps version is the worse of all version.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 15 07:10:26 2014 No.2068119 >>2068112 What's the best?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 15 07:18:21 2014 No.2068124 >>2068119 Arguable but mostly is counted between DC and the N64.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 15 08:16:25 2014 No.2068170 >>2068124 Uh, no. DC, PC, or PS2. The N64 version is good, but it can't compare to the higher end versions. it's the second worst after PS1.

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/vr/ - Retro Games