/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.2013564]

Matthewmatosis has done a Super Mario 64 analysis (immensely insightful as ever) and is going to review all main series 3D Mario games. Thus, why don't we have an SM64 thread once in a while? Perhaps even a "3D platformers" thread. What are you favourites? My favourite 5th gen 3D platformer is Mario 64 allright, but christ was Spyro fun and damned if Crash Bandicoot didn't look absolutely stunning.

[Anonymous No.2013581]

SM64 is the only 3D Mario game that is legit fantastic. All others have a problem or two that puts a dent in the playing experience in one way or another.

Of course, SM64 wasn't problem free, but like is stated in the video, the production staff knew about the problems and tried to solve them, but didn't always succeed.

[Anonymous No.2013594]

>>2013581
>SM64 is the only 3D Mario game that is legit fantastic. All others have a problem or two that puts a dent in the playing experience in one way or another.

I thought Galaxy was pretty good -- though, I wish there were more worlds; but, that's just me wanting more.

Still, SM64 is my favorite 3D Mario.

[Anonymous No.2013610]

Super Mario 3D Land is better

[Anonymous No.2013616]

>>2013564
This and Rayman 2 are tied as my favorites of the 5th gen.

[Anonymous No.2013628]

>>2013594
Galaxy is probably the closest Nintendo has come to remake the brilliance of SM64. The problem was that they were forced to create it around gimmicks like the Wii controller which ultimately felt detrimental to the gameplay.

Also, making all the levels into small galaxies was both a brilliant move and a detrimental move, because while it introduced many good platforming segments, almost no level felt cohesive or connected like the levels in SM64 did. You could almost never get more than the one star you picked on the level selection in Galaxy, while in SM64 you could often choose to deviate from the beaten path and take another star than the one you picked on the level selection screen.

Also, no 3D Mario after SM64 has successfully redone the parkour style of gameplay which made SM64 really great. Instead it's replaced with powerups or other design choices which are less fun, like F.L.U.D.D which made most challenging jumps completely obsolete, or Galaxy's gravity mechanic which doesn't synergize well with Mario's movescheme since he will often start floating into orbit if he tries something too acrobatic.

[Anonymous No.2013640]

>>2013628
I think Galaxy kind of overdid the island aspect in that you could fall off every world and die; whereas, in M64, a lot of worlds had barriers you couldn't go beyond -- but, that might be nitpicking.

Your point on the stars is agreeable: it allowed a certain freedom by the player; same goes for the "parkour" style SM64 used.

Galaxy succeeded on many levels; but, SM64 isn't easy to top.

[Anonymous No.2013678]

I genuinely believe Sunshine is a better game than Mario 64. It had the benefit of being a sequel, on superior hardware, so obviously a lot of the problems about Mario 64 were fixed. Such as slow movement and somewhat stiff controls and camera issues. Sunshine features the most agile and acrobatic Mario to date, which I appreciate greatly. The amount of fun platforming you can do in Sunshine is unmatched. Diving, sliding, triple jumping, spin jumping, backflipping, side flipping and wall jumping feel way tighter than they did in Mario 64.
Of course the big new thing about Sunshine is the FLUDD which a lot of people call a gimmick as if it's a bad thing. I think the FLUDD gimmick was used really well. Pretty much the entire game made use of the FLUDD in some way and it made getting around the world a lot of fun. It does make some platforming a bit easy though and I wish they would have increased the difficulty in the regular levels to balance it out. The secret levels mostly hit the right spot.
Also, Sunshine has a shitload of blue coins to find, which increases the replay value of the game for those willing to go for 100%. I still have yet to do that though.

[Anonymous No.2013681]

>>2013678
>I'm in /vr/ not /v/
Goddamnit. It happened again. It's like a dream where you're about to hold a presentation in front of your classmates or something and your clothes disappear.
Fuck.

[Anonymous No.2013683]

>>2013628

Galaxy felt too much like a mini game collection. I remember feeling like I was actually exploring the worlds in Super Mario 64 whereas SMG felt like 5 minute snippets of what one of those SM64 levels would contain.

[Anonymous No.2013704]

>>2013683
SM64 was made the exploration mechanic work, but I wouldn't say that short-stage-based design philosophy of every Mario game from SMB to SMB3 to SMW to YI to SMG is inferior to Super Mario 64's limitation-borne open-ended exploration gameplay.

For example, personally, I found Bowser stages the most thrilling in Sm64. Exploring the worlds was fun, but sheer platforming was still better. That's how Nintendo designers, inclusind Miyamoto, obviously felt, too. I'm sure Nintendo could have developed open-world, exploration-centric Mario games if they wanted. Instead they went for the tightly-knit platforming gameplay with no more focus on exploration than there was in SMB3 or SMW.

It's true that SM64 was borderline adventure game, but I think it was a genius way to overcome a limitation, but not the perfect design philosophy for the series to follow.

[Anonymous No.2013710]

Fuck off, Matthew. Quit advertising your shit on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.2013712]

>>2013704
I think the lack of exploration in SM64 was more technical limitations than actual aspirations.

If I had it my way, there would've been more to explore OUTSIDE the castle -- and possibly more in the castle (like the attic, if there is one).

SM64 excelled in the format it used to house the worlds; much like SMB3 excelled in its format -- which I would love to see duplicated in another 3D Mario; or even World's map.

[Anonymous No.2013739]

>tfw Matthewmatosis will never be your bf

[Anonymous No.2013752]

>tfw you ruined the game for yourself and it can no longer be fun. no more feeling of free roaming and exploration and excitement. just pure robotic planned paths and going through the motions SW

[Anonymous No.2013757]

Barely ever see any love for this game. It was one of my favorites as a lad.

Also, it's not really a platformer, but NiGHTS into dreams was one of the first 3D games that really blew my mind when I was a kid. I still pop that in and experience the rush of feels I got when I first booted it up on my Saturn so many years ago...

[Anonymous No.2013856]

64 and Sunshine fans are the worst.

[Anonymous No.2013860]

>>2013710
>doesn't even link the video
>"quit advertising"

[Anonymous No.2013878]

>>2013757
I had Croc on the PSOne growing up. Loved that game...I may go back and play it tomorrow now that you reminded me of it. Have you played it recently? How does it hold up?

[Anonymous No.2013890]

I played 64 for the first time in 2008, emulated on pc with a keyboard, and I think it is a masterpiece.

The good things about Mario 64 are the controls, and the sensation of visiting a place you get from each level, and replaying each level many times to get all the stars enhanced that sensation.

I feel Mario Galaxy is more admirable and awe inducing than fun.

[Anonymous No.2013891]

>>2013856

>Said the fag on /vr/

[Anonymous No.2013904]

>>2013890
>The good things about Mario 64 are the controls
but you played on a keyboard

[Anonymous No.2013916]

>>2013757
Didn't that start out as a Yoshi game?

[Anonymous No.2013943]

>>2013916

That's what I've read. It definitely feels like a cross between Mario and Spyro.

>>2013878
I have played it pretty recently. I'm a bad judge of determining whether or not something is still acceptable to play in today's world. All I can say is that I had an awesome time, which I guess counts for something. Hahaha.

[Anonymous No.2013946]

>>2013856
>balling up based 64 with the worst 3D Mario
Uh, okay.

[Anonymous No.2013963]

Say what ever you want but the true is that the 3D Marios are all good, you could like one more than the others because all of them are different, I can't gather enough complains to say that neither SM64, Sunshine, Galaxy or 3D World are bad, even 3D world which is the weakest is still solid game.

[Anonymous No.2013972]

>>2013946
>he doesn't like sunshine

how does it feel not having the ability to think for yourself?

[Anonymous No.2013973]

>>2013890
>The good things about Mario 64 are the controls
>emulated on pc with a keyboard

[Anonymous No.2013985]

>>2013972
But I do like Sunshine, it's just the worst 3D Mario.

[Anonymous No.2013992]

>>2013973
>trying to aim the cannon in Whomp's Fortress with a keyboard

[Anonymous No.2014000]

>>2013992
>trying to spin Bowser around with wasd/arrow keys

[Anonymous No.2014005]

>>2013992
>>2014000
>needlessly pretentious "patricians"
Neither of those things would be hard on a keyboard.

You could've at least mentioned the sleeping piranha plants.

[Anonymous No.2014010]

>>2014000
That makes me think about all these people who never feel their hands with pain and blood after a rotation minigame in a Mario Party game or spinning Bowser in SM64

[Anonymous No.2014026]

>>2014005
>pretentious

What in the world are you talking about

[Anonymous No.2014350]

>>2013678
I gotta have to disagree on a few points here.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Mario was faster in Sunshine than he was in 64, but even if he was, it doesn't matter because the game doesn't leave room for the player to fully explore Mario's agility. The platforming in Sunshine far from matches that of other Mario games, because the levels, in almost complete contrast to 64, are not designed around Mario's movescheme, and in that sense not designed aound platforming, but are instead designed around F.L.U.D.D. Reaching a Shine Sprite is rarely a question about what acrobatic moves the player should string together, but rather which one of F.L.U.D.D.s muzzles the player should use and how much. Sure, as a player you can take advantage of Mario's movescheme if you feel like it, but it still becomes obsolete because F.L.U.D.D. is often an easier solution to whatever problem the player has to face.

Of course, there are some levels which deviates from this norm, but they are far and few inbetween and as a player you start to long for those moments when you find a secret level and F.L.U.D.D. is taken away from you and you are faced with a level of pure focused platforming. This makes the rest of the game extra painful because you get a taste of the true potential of the game, that was sadly lost.

Also, a large portion of the Shine Sprites are focused around the player finding a dirty spot on the map and then clean it up. This is just not fun at all, becomes repetitive extremely quick and ruins the flow of the game. The worst part is that if you run out of water before you've painstakingly cleaned up every little last speck of dirt in the area, you have run away to find a refilling spot and come back again. The fact that the aiming mechanism is slow and feels rather contrived doesn't help either.

[Anonymous No.2014530]

Banjo Tooie beats everything.

[Anonymous No.2014538]

>>2013860
That contrarian shitstain is always viralling his crap on /v/.