/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1864605]

How do you feel about games which seem to require lots of pattern learning and memorization?

[Anonymous No.1864616]

I know artificial difficulty isn't the right term, but it's especially frustrating when games do this kind of thing for an extended period of time.

[Anonymous No.1864617]

>>1864605
You mean NES games? I enjoy them.

[Anonymous No.1864619]

It's something rewarding that modern gamers don't have the patience for. Nowadays games are more visually impressive and immersive, but oftentimes dumbed down and streamlined.

This element can get a bit out of hand though. If a game is too difficult, with too many levels or enemy types, it becomes nearly impossible to learn memorize the levels/enemy patterns/etc in the later levels, as it's difficult just to reach the levels.

[Anonymous No.1864626]

I honestly find them really easy, but they're insanely easy to fuck up... if that makes any sense.

A majority of retro games have this however, and sometimes I really don't feel like doing that shit for some games.

[Anonymous No.1864654]

>>1864619
>modern gamers don't have the patience for pattern memorization
Sure, sure.

[Anonymous No.1864673]

>>1864654
But that game had dick all to do with memorization, just like 99% of all other music rhythm games. If you had to memorize the 'notes' instead of 'reading' them, you were bad at the game and generally looked down upon.

[Anonymous No.1864678]

>>1864673
>If you had to memorize the 'notes' instead of 'reading' them, you were bad at the game and generally looked down upon.
Have you just not ever played any challenging song on expert?
You don't read that shit as you go along.

[Anonymous No.1864686]

>>1864605
>How do you feel about games which seem to require lots of pattern learning and memorization?

You mean retro games? I love them.

[Anonymous No.1864691]

>>1864686
>You mean retro games? I love them.

All retro games aren't like that and you are silly if you think so.

[Anonymous No.1864693]

>>1864678
Yes, you fucking do. Same thing with DDR, BeatMania, Pop'n Music, etc etc etc. If you can't read the notes, it's either not scrolling fast enough for you or you can't read as fast as you need to. If you have to memorize note charts, you are shit.

[Anonymous No.1864694]

>>1864678
>implying thats true
There is no way you could memorize so many notes for the expert songs, the harder ones anyway
Reading them as you go is the only way

[Anonymous No.1864696]

>>1864686
>>1864691

not all retro games have tons of memorization.

it seems that platformers and shmups are most guilty of it. Mostly because they would be too short otherwise. Many RTS and RPG games don't need that.

[Anonymous No.1864697]

>>1864678

Not the anon you quoted, but I spent at least 3 years playing GH series daily on PS2 and agree with him. I don't know how much autistic someone must be to not simply read the notes and press the button. There are only a few songs I memorized, but it happened for playing too much. Like the first stage of Super Mario World, I remember it so well that I can finish it with my eyes closed, literally.

[Anonymous No.1864721]

>>1864694
>There is no way you could memorize so many notes for the expert songs
Every musician on the planet would disagree with you.

[Anonymous No.1864727]

>>1864721
I meant for the purposes of the video game, obviously. Nobody would ever do that for guitar hero.

[Anonymous No.1864751]

>>1864727
>Nobody would ever do that for guitar hero.
>there are actual people who play GH without looking at the screen

[Anonymous No.1864769]

They are fairly easy for me and often too simple, so I find them fairly boring.

[Anonymous No.1864772]

>>1864697
I don't believe you literally could, with luck yes but not 9 times out of ten.

[Anonymous No.1864790]

>>1864772
Isn't the first stage of SMW just a tree with a note from Yoshi that he's not home?

[Anonymous No.1864931]

If a game is fun such a small thing doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.1864947]

>>1864605
i think they are challenging and satisfying after you beat them

[Anonymous No.1864953]

>>1864678
but guitar hero is not even challenging rythmic game

try drummania or DJMax

[Anonymous No.1864986]

Children, I don't think this is the place to argue about your super cool plastic instrument games.

[Anonymous No.1864987]

>>1864790
Well actually level 1 is to the left of Yoshi's house but you are right in that I thought of the level to the right there, level 2...

[Anonymous No.1864995]

>>1864986
Shut yer face, old man. I'll do what I want.

[Anonymous No.1865048]

I hate them because I suck at this shit. Fuck Mega Man 1, took me at least a week to grasp ice man's pattern.

[Anonymous No.1865142]

>>1864605
It depends. I like it when games don't make it so you absolutely have to know to do a specific thing in order to pass it, for pretty much every single part of the game. At that point it feels cheap and lazy. But if it 's for certain little parts, then no, I don't mind.

And, for some reason Gradius comes to mind. There are patterns and checkpoints to try again, but it's still possible to rely on reflex and get passed things without having to memorize everything. It's balanced, and I like games like that.

>>1864619
>Modern gamers
>retro gamers
These terms are so idiotic. Everyone just wants to play games and have fun.

[Anonymous No.1865505]

I recognize that it isn't exactly fair to the player but still I can't help but revel in the sensation of dominating such games.

Pic related, going fast in this game is such a rush.

[Anonymous No.1865509]

>>1865142
Surviving a Gradius checkpoint is usually pretty damn difficult the first time around until you've practiced that checkpoint a while. Maybe if you've stockpiled a large amount of lives, but you usually don't have that luxury.

[Anonymous No.1865657]

>>1865142
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

>Children who waited for their marshmallow and got two
Retro gamers
>Children who wanted instant gratification and so only got one
Modern gamers

[Anonymous No.1867408]

>>1865657
>Children who ate their marshmallow and fucked off to play video games
True gamers
>Children who would sit around for fifteen minutes just to get a marshmallow
Obese Korean grindslaves

[Anonymous No.1867442]

>>1864605
Trial and error gameplay sucks, but punishing the player for not picking up on a previously introduced pattern is fair and good

[Anonymous No.1867449]

People hear are talking like NES games are primarly about memorization.

For most NES games you don't NEED to memorize, its just an alternative way of playing if you don't have fast enough reflexes.

I've beaten several NES bosses or even entire levels on my first attempt, that is to say I didn't know their pattern. I just reacted very fast.

NES games were designed with children in mind. They knew children would not have the same reflexes as an adult so they made it so you could also win off sheer memory. Because of this I wouldn't call NES games difficult. A really difficult game is something like a an arcade beat em up or a bullet hell game where not only do you have very low health/lives, brutal enemies, but also the enemies patterns is too complex and or reactionary for you to just win by memorizing where they spawn.

[Anonymous No.1867471]

>>1864678
>being this pleb at rhythm games

Almost every song in all the GH games I passed on expert on my first try (except the bullshit solo ones like fire&flames, the solo in electric eye, raining blood, jordan)

And sight-reading is an actual musician skill and most classically trained players can site read their instrument to some degree

[Anonymous No.1867490]

>>1864772

If you look on youtube you'll see it's more common than you think. And only with the first stage, the one before the Yellow switch palace.

[Anonymous No.1867519]

>>1867490
Sugooooiii, I never knew that moon was up there!

[Anonymous No.1868209]

>>1867490
HOLY SHIT, THERE'S A MOON UP THERE??

[Anonymous No.1868232]

>>1864605
pattern learning = ok

memorization = worst part of any game

[Anonymous No.1868235]

>>1868232
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Anonymous No.1868238]

>>1868235
huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Anonymous No.1868240]

>>1868238
>ehhhhhhhhhhh?

[Anonymous No.1868242]

>>1868240

[Anonymous No.1868652]

in almost any game there is an element of reflex no matter how well you've memorized something.

just because you know every single one of a boss' attacks doesn't necessarily mean you will always dodge them with 100% consistency.

games can easily be designed in such a way that the difficulty persists beyond the point where you've memorized everything. in fact, this is a big part of designing a good arcade game in general.