/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1856540]

Discuss Build engine games

>Duke Nukem 3D
>Shadow Warrior
>Blood
>Redneck Rampage series
>Exhumed aka Powerslave
>Witchaven

[Anonymous No.1856602]

>>1856540
Blood and Blood 2 are awesome.

[Anonymous No.1856760]

>>1856602
Blood 2 isn't Build though.

[Anonymous No.1856762]

I'm almost done with the PC version of Powerslave--level 17 out of 20, I think. Couple interesting things about this game:

One is that when you go underwater, the automap doesn't show you teleporting to a different sector the way it does in other Build games I've played. I wonder if that's something different about how they handled water in this game or if it's just the automap coding.

Another thing is that in this game you can't save mid-level, you have checkpoints and lives (very similar to Dark Forces). The interesting thing, though, is that when you die and respawn, you can find your corpse on the ground. That's fairly uncommon even in games where you have lives; I kinda like it because it makes the lives seem more like a mystical power the game acknowledges instead of a pretend-like-that-didn't-happen do-over.

[Anonymous No.1856767]

>>1856762
I wish I could find more overhead maps for this game because they can be pretty intense. Very twisty with a lot of crossovers and switch hunting. This was the only map image I could find online.

[Anonymous No.1856779]

>>1856602
>Blood is awesome
Yes
>Blood 2 is awesome
Hell no
And not build related.


Redneck Rampage and the expansions are pretty fun games, fuck the haters

[NESfag No.1856781]

>>1856762
>>1856767
I actually finished replaying the game a few days ago, and I love it even fucking more. The level design is so good, it's so inspirational... and criminally underrated.

For the water, are you sure it does that every time there is water? I'm asking because I remember one big 'fishtank' in one map that, physically, was where you saw it and that you could go into. If it does it all the time though, it is probably some coding thing. They do acknowledge and tell people to use the automap in the booklet of the game, so they could have made sure it works as intended.

A little protip for the game : to use mouselook you have to hold a key; so I set that key to a mouse button which makes it easy to mouselook when needed.

And yeah, I actually really like the live system. Pic related, witnessing my own corpse.

[Anonymous No.1856795]

Does Powerslave work good in dosbox?
How about the Saturn version?

[Anonymous No.1856796]

>>1856781
>are you sure it does that every time there is water?
No, I only noticed the automap behavior a couple levels back and haven't been testing it thoroughly. It may not be consistent.

[Anonymous No.1856807]

>>1856795
Yes, it's works good in Dosbox.

Saturn version runs great in SSF with the normal compatibility settings.

[Anonymous No.1856818]

>>1856795
The Saturn/PS1 "version" is basically a different game that shares most of the same sprites, weapons, and enemies. The engine is completely different, the levels are all completely different, the progression and powerups are completely different, etc. I was able to emulate the PS1 version just fine.

DOSbox for PC Powerslave, well... you need to have some tolerance. Like most Build games, I have to lower the resolution quite a bit to get decent performance, and although I managed to get the controls working pretty close to Doom-style, if you want things to work fast and smooth out of the box you'll be frustrated.

[NESfag No.1856820]

>>1856795
Yeah it works perfectly in dosbox. It's not a demanding game like Blood. (Blood used a heavily modified version of the Build engine; while Exhumed runs on an earlier version of the engine).

However you'll have to use a CD image in bin + cue ; otherwise you will be missing music and also tons of sounds. If you're interested you can download it here : http://www.abandonware-france.org/ltf_abandon/ltf_jeu.php?id=1179&fic=liens
click on "version CD' then "pour lancer le télécharger veuillez cliquer ici". That's Exhumed and you can use this image to install it in dosbox, then mount the CUE (not the bin) when launching the game and you'll have music.

the command in dosbox is "imgmount D c:\[FolderOfYourIso]exhumed.cue -t iso"

You'll want to go to setup after installing the game to set the graphics to 640*480 too. Optionally set the controls to wasd+mouse and do what i said above about mouselook... BTW, in this game the strafing is very slow and you can't strafe while moving backward/forward at the same time. The beginning of the game might seem repetitive after a few levels, but soon you'll have more weapons, enemies, and new environments.

[Anonymous No.1856827]

>>1856807
>>1856818
>>1856820
Thanks anons.

[NESfag No.1856832]

>>1856827
Also, get used to holding that left-shit key lol, there is no autorunning so you have to hold the key to run.
A sourceport of this game with the option of autorunning and constant mouselook and higher resolutions could do wonders... Sadly it seems nobody cares about this game, not even the devs. Everyone cares about the console versions, I heard some of the devs were working to porting it to PC Doom64-EX style.

[Anonymous No.1856834]

>>1856820
>>1856832
I'm not sure exactly what I did in my config, but I have Capslock working fine as autorun, and when running and using Shift as a strafe modifier, I can strafe back and force really quickly (initially strafing was super slow, but somehow the combo of keys I'm using fixes it).

[NESfag No.1856852]

>>1856834
Wow holy shit. You're right. I just set "Run" as capslock, and it works as autorunning.

And for the fast strafing trick.... it sounds like a glitch involving that autorunning, because it doesn't work if you "strafe left" and "strafe right" keys, but it works if you use "strafekey+left" or "strafekey+right" ; so with the right button combinaison you can have autorunning and superfaster strafing... Could use Q and D as 'left' and 'right' (rather than 'strafe left' and 'strafe right') and use a key like lshit/lctrl as "strafe key" that you press with Q or D everytime you want to strafe... Really fucking nice. Thanks for the tip!

[Anonymous No.1856859]

>>1856834
Basically I don't use the dedicated strafe left/right keys at all. Because they're sloooww.

[NESfag No.1856885]

>>1856859
Yeah got it, thanks for the tip, it's really cool. I can bet it's a glitch though. Too bad I only find this out after I'm done replaying the game... oh well, I will always replay it again at some point.

BTW - this game has ONE usermap ever made for it. I guess it doesn't help that the game didn't come with the mapeditor so you have to do a little bit of trickery to make a map for it... The map is decent and be downloaded here. http://dukertcm.com/knowledge-base/downloads-rtcm/powerslave-maps/
Make sure to delete the files once you're done because it overwrites some art data as well as the first level of the game.

and also, this game has coop up to 4 players and 10 (!) DM-only maps. Dunno what they were thinking... but i wish those didn't exist and they made more SP maps in the meantime (unless those DM maps are actually cut parts of SP maps from the game, which they could be, i haven't checked...).

[Anonymous No.1856989]

>>1856762
Another interesting thing about this game is that the enemies that fire projectiles will lead their shots. If you're moving when they fire, they aim the shot where you would end up if you continued moving.

The best way I've found to fight the alien bugs with the super fast projectiles is to strafe-waggle back and forth so they keep shooting to the left and right of me.

[NESfag No.1857009]

>>1856989
Interesting. I wondered if there was a way to avoid their shots.... Usually I'd either tank and fire with the M60, or if possible use grenades or the flying-snake-laser-thing.

One thing I really like about this game is their fake 'dynamic' light system. Basically, fire, or using your fireweapons, or projectiles like fireballs or some enemies shot, change the value of the shading of the sector they're in. Okay, sometimes it's ugly and looks glitchy at times (for example when the place is made of several smaller sectors and it's obvious the light only lits the sector it's in and not the other sector that's 1 step away from it...) but sometimes, like for fireballs that come out of walls, it creates real fucking nice effects. For Build, that.

the REAL dynamic light system of the engine they made for the Saturn version of Powerslave and DN3D is technically superior and more awesome, of course

[Anonymous No.1857127]

Somebody a few threads ago was throwing together a little Dosbox frontend menu thing for a lot of these games, did that ever happen? Obviously I know how to use dosbox but it looked hella convenient

[NESfag No.1857128]

>>1857127
Dunno if it's the same guy (probably not), but there is this : http://buildgamedosboxlaunchers.weebly.com/

[Anonymous No.1857141]

BUILD?

[Anonymous No.1857189]

>>1857128

Nah, the person wrote a little custom menu with like 20+ games on it. Thanks for trying though.

[Anonymous No.1857229]

fuck yeah! I used to spend weeks on levels in ken silverman's build! Duke Nukem 3D and Blood were my favorite childhood games, but I spent more time making levels, than actually playing.

[Anonymous No.1857280]

we should make a mosaic card for Ken Silverman

[Anonymous No.1857285]

>>1857280
We should run a train on your mum's puss

[Anonymous No.1857289]

>>1857280
yes goy, make me a mosaic

[Anonymous No.1857307]

>>1857141
You're a big engine

[Anonymous No.1857308]

>>1857307
For jew >>1857289

[Anonymous No.1857932]

[Anonymous No.1858041]

Welp, just figured out that the time limit in the last level of Powerslave is for real and not just window dressing to create an atmosphere of urgency. I don't think I have the energy to go through that entire level again tonight.

[Anonymous No.1858050]

>>1858041
It's probably easy as balls. I bet I could do it on my very first try ever. Git gud.

[Anonymous No.1858060]

>>1857932
Nice. This reminds me that I really like the palette of colors Blood uses. Vivid reds (of course), pastel blues and yellows.

[Anonymous No.1858067]

>>1858050
It actually probably was quite generous, because I was really taking my time, being slow and methodical, and I'm pretty sure I was almost at the end when I hit the limit. And it was my first try with plenty of lives and items left, so yeah I bet you probably could!

It's still a long level though.

[Anonymous No.1858393]

>>1858041
Nevermind, beat it. I can't think of many other games where the last boss is something you fight in the penultimate level, and the final level is otherwise a fairly normal one (albeit a long one, with a time limit and unique objectives).

The credits have some goofy messages about how you can't skip them.

[Anonymous No.1858452]

YEEHAW!

[NESfag No.1858734]

>>1858041
Yeah, it took me 2 tries even on my 2nd playthrough of the game.

The thing is, if you miss a tower in the first part of the map, you won't be able to backtrack and you'll be fucked... That's what happened to me, so make sure to look everywhere. You should be able to do it on your 2nd try, because you'll be doing the beginning much much faster. I actually really like the level. There is just that one fucking stupid switch that's a little of a bitch, hidden in a corner Redneck Rampage style if you see what I mean... In the part just after this screenshot.

Also to be honest, I thought it was fuckign awesome the moment I realized that the timer was a real timer except with alien numbers

>>1858452
Lol nice. Funny how the first level of RR is actually one of the worst IMO. It was also the one used for demos of the game.

[NESfag No.1858764]

>>1858393
I didn't think the last level was 'normal' tbh, it was the most challenging of the game, more challenging than the bosses. BTW the last boss, Kilmattikhan, was very disappointing tbh, I thought it was the worst. Set was my favourite boss.

While the story of the game is pretty cliché, I actually enjoyed it and like the ending. The way story and storytelling is done (through a few "cutscenes" which are just narrated text with one beautiful image) is how I think it should exactly be in FPS games. IMO this game does "FPS story" better than any story-oriented modern FPS that tries as hard as it can to be a fucking movie.

[NESfag No.1858765]

>>1858393
I didn't think the last level was 'normal' tbh, it was the most challenging of the game, more challenging than the bosses. BTW the last boss, Kilmattikhan, was very disappointing tbh, I thought it was the worst. Set was my favourite boss.

While the story of the game is pretty cliché, I actually enjoyed it and like the ending. The way story and storytelling is done (through a few "cutscenes" which are just narrated text with one beautiful image) is how I think it should exactly be in FPS games. IMO this game does "FPS story" better than any story-oriented modern FPS that tries as hard as it can to be a fucking movie.

BTW - I shared your autorunning and fast strafing tips and it's going on the game's page at RTCM.

[Anonymous No.1858770]

Is there something equivalent to GZDoom for Exhumed, Witchhaven and Blood? Along the lines of updating the game to be Windows 7 compatible and allowing for modern resolutions/controls.

[Anonymous No.1858803]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7NjlUwyEBw

shadow warrior is second best build speedgame

[Anonymous No.1858818]

>>1858803
>redux version

Redux version was made by the same people who did Megaton. Megaton is a lot more glitchy than the original and any other sourceport. The already existing glitches are easier to pull off and it even has new glitches.

There is that famous DN3D speedrunner which was made recently, adn the guy uses Megaton. Would he have used vanilla or any other souceport, he wouldn't have been able to do it so easily if at all.
It's probably the same for Redux...

>>1858770
Nope, you'll have to use dosbox. But you can set modern controls yourself in those games, in Exhumed you just can't strafe and go backwards/forwards at the same time and you have to hold a key/button to look up&down.

[Anonymous No.1858836]

>>1858818
im not sure if the sw crew have tested if its harder to perform those clips on versions other than redux
they are alot easier to do on megaton for instance going under the first door only works on megaton

[Anonymous No.1858845]

>>1858818
actually other then the timing on grenade jumping being different everything possible on redux is possible on classic

I think the door on Seppuku is a bit easier to clip through in redux but i might have just been fucking up a ton on classic.

[Anonymous No.1858963]

>>1858060
Aye. Watch this video in 'hd':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSGcflqDCA

I don't even know if that is actually native 720p but at the higher resolutions Blood is a really pretty game.

[Anonymous No.1858975]

>>1858803
This. SW is 10x better than that overrated raunchy gorefest named "Blood".

[Anonymous No.1859270]

>>1858963
Not a bad vid but I don't understand people that BUILD games keyboard only in 2010+

[Anonymous No.1859283]

>>1859270
*Hell I wouldn't have understood it as a kid either if I knew about KBM then. It was only until Half Life that I switched to KBM, and then retroactively played through the BUILD games again that way.

[Anonymous No.1859315]

My experience:

>Duke Nukem 3D
THIS IS FUCKIN AWESOME, TITS AND SHIT, OMG JETPACKS, STRIP CLUBS, OUTER SPACE, EARTHQUAKES OMG EPISODE 4 DUKE BURGER, SHRINK RAY etc
>Shadow Warrior
wow so uhh.. god these enemies suck.. where the fuck am i supposed to be goin.. wtf's going on.. i don't get it
>Blood
Love this creepy atmosphere, awesome music, badass, train level, creepy shit, lots of interactive cool shit, omg funfair level, homages everywhere, wow
>Redneck Rampage series
Fucking could never be bothered getting past the first level thanks to godawful 3d graphics shit
>Exhumed aka Powerslave
Really nifty themes, actually let's be honest this was really underrated no matter what, ejiypt
>Witchaven
fuck this shit
>NAM
lol
>WWII GI
lmao
>Tekwar
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.1859337]

>>1859315
Shadow Warrior seriously has some of the worst game design I have ever seen.

>So let's make explosive radius really fucking huge, right.
>and then like, let's make the majority of the players weapons explosive, right.
>and let's make the default ninjas dudes you see everywhere like, I dunno lol, let's make them just fire rockets/missles/grenades out of their fuckin chest, no animation or anything lol.
>explosions and shit everywhere man
>so blazed

[Anonymous No.1859338]

>>1859315
>wow so uhh.. god these enemies suck..

Nigga, Shadow Warrior has one of the best killing scenes in gaming history. And aside from that farting sumo dude, i think the enemies are pretty well combined with the game's own atmosphere.

>pic related

[Anonymous No.1859342]

>>1859338
They just look all stupid
Dynamite carrying chinese dudes and other unfoegettable shti I can't even remmeb juck fuck typin rightn ow

[Anonymous No.1859347]

>>1859342
I think it's only natural because you seem like a retard.

[Anonymous No.1859350]

>>1859347
I'm not an fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.1859353]

>>1859337
I thought SW was good but the only thing that bothered me about it was the OHKs. You can be at max health, and then a random grenade from fucking nowhere that explodes almost immediately can kill you (like not even launched from an enemy, just a random trap in the level as you're crossing an area or something). That's bullshit.

I steamrolled the game not long ago on No Pain No Gain. The only times I would die were from bullshit OHKs as described above. Apart from that I thought it was a tight game though.

[Anonymous No.1859359]

>>1859338
Oh, look, you comin apart!

[NESfag No.1859362]

>>1859353
Hmm, did you play it in Redux?

That sounds like the kind of grenades that
- you only find in Twin Dragon add-on (not in the original game ;), like in the city map, the 2Nd level
- that are glitched in Redux. In Redux, due to a glitch making all voxels 1 inch lower; all the grenades are INVISIBLE if you have voxels turned on, while you should be able to see them. Oh, and I don't think they have fixed that yet even though it's been in the game since launch.

[Anonymous No.1859365]

>>1859362
Yes I did play it on Redux m8.

[Anonymous No.1859367]

>>1859353
What I can't get over is how low level ninjas have a throwing animation for their shurikens but orange/grey pantsu just spawn a rocket/nade out of their chest randomly.

[Anonymous No.1859370]

>>1859338
The slicing death animation is good, but SW has some pretty rough spritework and animations on some of the enemies. The levels look really good which makes it stand out more I think.

[Anonymous No.1859372]

>>1859365
*Also I didn't play the addon, I'm talking about the main game. It's definitely there, don't remember where though as I've only played through SW twice in my entire life.

[NESfag No.1859376]

>>1859365
Then if we're talking about the same thing, they should be visible and are only invisible due to Redux being glitchy.

I replayed the entire game + both addons recently using dosbox (and bmouse) and I had more fun than with Redux. Fuck, SW's sourcecode was released but so far both main sourceports (SWP and Redux) are fucking glitchy in different ways from each others. Also, dosbox with bmouse has better mouse support than SWP.
I can't wait for EDuke32-SW so the game finalyl gets a sourceport of the quality it deserves.

[Anonymous No.1859385]

>>1859376
>>1859372
*There's an example of it here in E1M2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjoQ4UtsgGc

around 34 seconds. player clearly knew about it so he avoided it

[NESfag No.1859390]

>>1859385
Yeah those. Actually I didn't remember there were some explosives ones in the original game, but even then it's 'only' grenades and not the bombs you get in Twin Dragon which are fucking terrible. But yes, they should be visible and are only invisible due to a glitch with voxels in Redux.

[NESfag No.1859432]

>>1859315
>Fucking could never be bothered getting past the first level thanks to godawful 3d graphics shit

Dunno what you mean. Technically speaking the Redneck Rampage series (especially Rides Again) have the 'best' graphics of any Build game. They have high-res photo realistic textures (c'mon, for the time but RR's textures and everything were higher res than any other Build game), and the game could support resolution up to 1600*1200 in its original shape (though other Build games could have done the same easily thanks to Build itself; but still, it was the only one). They also did things other Build games didn't do like mixing sector and wall based shading with shading directly applied on the textures...

I say RR looks great. What ruins both games is some stupid gameplay and level design ideas, as well as being a bit glitchy and feeling unfinished; though most of that was fixed or improved in Rides Again.

>>1859367
It was quite common in games to use different palettes on the same enemy and give it different attack. A quick and ressource-saving way to have 'new' enemies. DN3D did it a bit too, and Blood had 4 different type of cultists.

Also, you'd get used to "rockets coming out of machineguns" if you played 2.5D FPS in multiplayer. It's exactly how it is in Doom if you face other Doomguys or in Duke, too. In Duke if you look at yourself in the mirror, and change weapon, nothing happens; and every different projectile comes out of the same looking weapon. Same for any 2.5D FPS. They just applied that logic to enemies.

[Anonymous No.1859439]

>>1859432
I just really didn't like the graphical style

[Anonymous No.1859443]

>>1859432
Redneck has all those ugly digitized sprites though, like the lamps and stuff, and enemies made from shitty 3D models

[NESfag No.1859459]

>>1859443
Yeah good point. Most of the sprites look terrible, they stick out so fucking much.

I don't mind the enemies though. At first I thought the aliens sticked out compared to the rednecks, but I got used to it. Also DN3D too had enemies based on 3D models, but I think they did a better job with making the sprites fit in the environment.

[Anonymous No.1859472]

>>1859432
It has nothing to do with "rockets coming out machine guns". They literally have no animation for their throwables; they don't even reuse the shuriken animation. They just walk around, stop to face you for a split second, a missile spawns out of their chest, back to walking around in circles.

[Anonymous No.1859484]

MARAMAX BOLLOCKS

[NESfag No.1859489]

>>1859472
Dunno what to say man. It's hard to have a look from this screenshot but, the ninja is aiming with his gun before the rocket comes out (and it looks like it does come out of the gun, from the same level, not under or above it).

I checked the grenade launching ones too; and even though they have a different aiming/firing animation (they shoot from the right hand and the guy isn't centered, it stays on the left, contrary to the rocket launching ones which aim and shoot holding the guns in front of them with both hands) and the grenades come out of the right of the character, when he's aiming, at the same level as the gun.

[Anonymous No.1859503]

ROOOOOOOOH! LATARANAAMAALACTOOOSE!

[Anonymous No.1859508]

>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.1859585]

>>1859459
Duke also had a lot better models

like, you look at the cheerleaders in RR and you can tell the 3D model looked like shit even in its full 3D "glory"

[Anonymous No.1859678]

http://advsys.net/ken/buildsrc/default.htm

Has anyone tried the "8 bonus maps that I made a long time ago for Ken-Build" on this page? I'm sure they're not super exciting but I kinda like watching the demo videos of Ken-Build and seeing all the features that would eventually show up in retail games; I wonder if any of Ken's maps show off elements that were never fully utilized.

pic only semi-related

[NESfag No.1859849]

I know a couple of Anons have played and love Death Wish, a 30 levels fan made add-on for Blood; well I just discovered the guy made other stuff for Blood, too; I'm (re)playing Hostile Takeover at the moment (turns out I had already played it before) and apparently there is another one too called Inherit The Earth.
If you're interested... They don't seem as good as Death Wish and were made before, but they seem worth playing anyway.

http://dukertcm.com/knowledge-base/downloads-rtcm/blood-addons/

(the dosboxconf file of hostile takeover is fucked btw; but you can easily get it running by renaming hostile.ini to blood.ini and launch the game. Make a copy of that original blood.ini)

[Anonymous No.1860338]

Witchaven seems to get panned a lot.
Sure, it has its share of problems, but for a 1994 Build game, its quite fun, and atmospheric.

[Anonymous No.1860454]

as a poorfag the only game I had was rift the chasm im not sure it was build prolly wasnt do anybody remember it?

[Anonymous No.1860568]

>>1860454
It is not, it is its own engine.
Also, 2.5D when it comes to level geometry, but can also render 3d models.
Pretty cool stuff though, made for Quake-style graphics that could run well on a 486DX2. Well, in Mode 13h, anyway. For VESA modes you would want a Pentium at the least.

[Anonymous No.1860640]

>tfw i will never play blood
>tfw i will never play powerslave


;-; ;-; ;-; ;-; ;-; ;-; ;-;

[Anonymous No.1860669]

>>1860640
Why not?
Go to an abandonware site, download it, extract it, and run it in DOSBox.
They work well.

DOSBox settings:
Set core to dynamic, cycles to max.
Set machine to either svga_s3 or vesa_nolfb.
Set memsize to 63.
Depending on the build, this option may or may not be there, but set vmemsize to 4, or 8, if you have a beefy machine.

[Anonymous No.1860679]

>>1860669
Also, if you use mouselook and the movement is bothersome for you, there is a utility you can run under DOSBox called bMouse. Works with Redneck Rampage, Blood, Shadow Warrior and Duke Nukem 3D.

http://swisscm.duke4.net/

[NESfag No.1861596]

>>1860338
How is it? I've never played it.

Also why do the enemies look like clay version of Alf?

[Anonymous No.1861724]

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7w6j0g8GqE#t=2840
Is there anything interesting mentioned from that part onwards?

[NESfag No.1862669]

>>1859849
Well, Hostile Takeover was alright, good layout and gameplay but a bit simple and not as detailed as Death Wish obviously

First level of Inherit The Earth now, seems pretty damn good. This Bloatoid guy is a great mapper.

[Anonymous No.1862701]

>>1862669
You said he makes some games professionally. Any idea what those games are? Might be cool.

[Anonymous No.1862741]

>>1860338
Witchaven's textures are ugly as hell, and the movement inertia feels damn odd, but the melee combat becomes exciting once you get the hold of it. The levels are nothing special, yet they're designed as RPG dungeons with nonlinear exploration in mind, and it works well. Did you know that you can shoot arrows in the walls and then walk on them? You can make a ladder made of arrows and climb to the ceiling, or you can make a bridge over a death pit. It's pretty stupid (that the arrows hold your weight), but it's fun to experiment. Sometimes you can find a fly spell and skip 80% of the level. Sometimes you can find a open door spell and skip the key hunt. And sometimes there is a bug with some switch, and the door won't open, but instead of cheating you can once again use the open door spell (if you have one), and beat the level legit.

It's a pretty remarkable game, once you start liking it, you can forget about its ugly art style and empty design. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as a "good game" though. Only check it if you're oversaturated and curious enough about the 'other' Build games.

I have yet to check Witchaven II.

[NESfag No.1862871]

>>1862701
He's in a 2 people company making casual mobile phone games. http://ghostcrabgames.com/

There was nothing else to expect. In this day and age, the vast majority of people who are 'serious' about making games as a living are going to turn to mobile phone games...

[Anonymous No.1862890]

>>1862669
>>1859849

CAN'T SEE SHIT CAP'N

[NESfag No.1862964]

>the boss of the Plasma Pack episode (werewolf) can swin and has a swimming animation
>even though there is no water in his boss map in the original game

This game man!

[Anonymous No.1862974]

>>1862964
Wasn't Caleb at one point planned to turn into one of those? If so, that's probably why.

[NESfag No.1862987]

>>1862974
Never heard of that. I was just thinking, since it is a transformation of a cultist, the artists was asked to base it on cultist's animations... hence similar swimming.

Well I have no idea really, just trying to guess. Probably is that there was other plans for this werewolf to begin with, but scrapped the idea; and used the content for the extra episode. It's not uncommon to use scrapped or unfinished content for an extra episode like that, DN3D did it too for Atomic Edition.

[Anonymous No.1862992]

>>1862890
This. Why not turn up your gamma Nesfag? I promise it won't kill you.

[Anonymous No.1862997]

>>1862987
Blood wiki says that Caleb was originally going to be able to turn into a Beast when he inflicted or took a lot of damage. There are even hand-sprites for it.
Same page (it's actually the page on the boss from Plasma Pak) also says that, originally, all four Chosen were going to be playable and each would have a different beast form.

[Anonymous No.1863002]

>>1862974
>>1862987
There's some mod that turns Caleb into one of those guys. I've never tried it tho.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Zt122abKs

[Anonymous No.1863004]

>>1862997
>Blood wiki says that Caleb was originally going to be able to turn into a Beast when he inflicted or took a lot of damage.
Oh my god that would have been so fucking awesome. Shame.

[Anonymous No.1863005]

>>1863002
>a werewolf running around with bundles of dynamite

[NESfag No.1864080]

>>1862992
It's totally fine on my screen. As long as the sunshine doesn't hit it... do you guys use CRTs or what?

>>1863002
>>1862997
that's interesting but I'm not sure what to think of the idea. I guess it could be alright if it didn't last long and didn't happen often.

So yeah, that boss was a re-used scrapped idea. I always felt like it felt out of place compared to other bosses...

[Anonymous No.1864102]

>>1864080
Really? I thought Episode 5's boss battle was pretty much the only good boss fight in the game (but all FPS games usually have shitty bosses anyway).

The Cerberus could have been good if it didn't get stuck. Cerberus was used really effectively in Death Wish and was awesome there. It wasn't bad when you meet him before Tchernobog either, but it was really lame the first time at the end of Ep3.

[NESfag No.1864105]

>>1864102
Yeah, in terms of gameplay, Ep5 is probably the best. Though one can easy just turn around the level and keep shooting while keeping your distance... It's still better than any other bulletsponge boss. And yeah, Cerberus getting stuck really sucked (and like you said, so did the vast majority of FPS bosses at the time). It's like they really wanted to keep their beautiful effect "everything explodes, cerberus shows up" even though it can potentially ruin gameplay against the boss.

The best appearence of Cerberus in Death Wish was after that secret level, when you're back to the town alongside a beach and that the Cerberus blows the shit out of tons of zombies and cultists while aiming at you

[Anonymous No.1864325]

>>1864102

I enjoyed Tchernobog and Cerberus. Cerberus was fun because he could easily oneshot me and Tchernobog had such a great design. Looked like a monster from Evil Dead.

[Anonymous No.1864329]

>>1859337

The large explosion radius is designed for cleaning out rooms more easily. Lob a grenade or two behind the corner, wait for them to go off, you're good to go. My only problem with it is the small explosion sprite that doesn't show how far the splash damage hits.

[Anonymous No.1864935]

>>1864325
Design wise they all looked pretty damn awesome. Whole game looked awesome.

[Anonymous No.1865940]

You forgot about this piece of shit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0GJSlez2ow

[Anonymous No.1866058]

>>1865940
>that ceiling
>that floor
>those walls
it's like they just picked up a random texture.

[Anonymous No.1866094]

>>1865940
well, the kids need to learn about tekwar sooner or later

[Anonymous No.1866130]

>>1865940
> 2:11
Why are you a manlet

[Anonymous No.1867750]

I just started Blood. I don't get why this game is so widely praised if it has hitscan enemies, I though that was Anti-Fun 101?

The weapons are cool as shit, as are the little details of the build engine, I guess I'm just wondering if this hitscan stuff is going to continue, which means I'll probably have to think of it more like Half-Life, or if it'll be more like Doom as the game progresses.

[NESfag No.1868795]

>>1867750
Blood isn't like Half Life, Blood isn't like Doom. Blood is like Blood.

Hitscan ennemies will continue but for the most part, less than in ep1, because there are more enemies coming (and also more weapons at your disposal). E1M5 and E1M6 are probably the maps with the biggest "cultists per enemy" ratio.

But in Blood your playstyle changes depending on the enemy and also on the situation. You might be doing more corner picking against cultists, but you won't be doing any corner picking with any of the other enemies.

The most important in Blood is to learn which weapons works best against what enemy and in what situation. Including alt-fire, some of them like the flaregun or the shotgun are very important.
If you play well, you'll be doing a LOT more weapon switching in Blood than in Doom or Half Life, or even in any FPS you've played. In any case, trying to see Blood as either "like Doom" or "like HL" isn't right.

[NESfag No.1868797]

>>1867750
Also which skill setting are you playing on? Skill 3 is recommended. Skill 4 is too hard on a first playthrough, but skill1 and 2 are glitched. Skill 5 is meant for coop only.
Did you put midi music? It's widely regarded as superior to the CD music.
Do you use bMouse ? It does improve mouselook, especially the Y axis.

[Anonymous No.1868847]

I'm really surprised that nobody's posted this yet, but here's the history of the Build engine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8tDBg4pfYk

I love Build, it's so hot. Too bad the editor is so rough-edged.

[NESfag No.1868854]

>>1868847
What do you mean by rough-edged?

You can a fucking lot with Build. But with greater possibilities come complexity.

[Anonymous No.1868856]

>>1868847
I really like BUILD, too. I didn't like it so much as a kid but as I've gotten older (and played a lot more Blood in particular) that's changed. There's something really charming about its look - when it's done right that is. There are of course some really shitty looking BUILD games.

[Anonymous No.1868859]

>>1868847
Wtf is this disgusting music? I was expecting an actual documentary style with somebody being informative about the engine.

[Anonymous No.1868891]

>>1867750
I think /vr/ praises Blood a bit too much.

[Anonymous No.1869198]

>>1868859
>Wtf is this disgusting music?
Those are all tracks created by ken, from Ken's Labyrinth, the BUILD demo and other assorted tracks he made.

[Anonymous No.1869217]

>>1869198
Well Ken sure ain't a composer, that's for sure. That music was like being stabbed in the ears.

[NESfag No.1869369]

>>1868891
And I think Blood is underrated. I think Blood's gameplay is more dynamic has a higher skill gap than any other 2.5D FPS I've played. The enemies, the weapons, and their balance is just great.

If you take Doom and DN3D, and play them with WASD+Mouse, you're going to quickly feel the limit of the enemies. Like for instance, simply strafe in circle in a certain way to avoid hitscan shots. But in Blood, that doesn't really happen, or at least not to such an extent, and that shows how well designed it is.

[Anonymous No.1869539]

>>1869369
Exactly. Once you 'get' Blood and know how to play it you realise just how criminally underrated its gameplay actually is.

[NESfag No.1871185]

Well my SW map is starting to look like something. This has been taking me a lot more time than expected, but I have to say the plans were quite big for this map... Hopefully I can get it done for early september.

SW mapping is really fucking cool. Tons of cool effects you can't do in DN3D. The texture set is more limited but it's gorgeous.

To give me inspiration I've been replaying the original, on No Pain No Gain (hardest skill) while doing katana/darts start on every level and while saving only at the start of each map; and I have to say that No Pain No Gain once you know the game really shows how good SW's gameplay truely is.

[Anonymous No.1871831]

>>1871185
Nice looking map.

So I've heard BUILD can do some really crazy impossible things... like put a bigger room inside a room that's smaller from the outside. And I remember hearing that there's a Duke secret circular map that's 720 degrees or something (still don't understand how that works).

What do you guys think is the craziest BUILD engine map ever invented? Have modders ever utilised that to make some pretty trippy stuff? Somebody oughta do it.

[Anonymous No.1871879]

Are there any books/documents dealing with the technical side of the Build engine?

[Anonymous No.1871957]

>>1871831
This one's something I was experimenting with some time ago, meant to be played in Douk.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/19ldah32y9g9huu/hey_guys_whats_goin_on_in_this_map.rar

>>1869217
You best not be dissing Ken Silverman nigga, the guy deserves all the respect he can get from being an autistic jew. His composing skills are also amazing, he has that distinct Japanese style I don't know where the fuck he could've got from. I agree the first song you hear in the video his one of his worst from Ken's Labyrinth, but the rest are really good, both FM and digital.

[Anonymous No.1872004]

>>1871831
Think of it in terms of portals, or windows. Imagine a house with two windows you can look through to see the inside. As long as you can't see into both windows at once, there's no contradiction in having each window show you a completely different interior. You can only interact with the interior through a narrow window or by being inside it (and you can only enter one version at a time) so there's never really any "overlap" even though it feels like they're occupying the same space.

Play E3L10 "Tier Drops" in Douk to see this in action. E2L11 "Lunatic Fringe" is the one with the 720 staircase.

[NESfag No.1872051]

>>1871831
There is actually not that many maps that I know of which use those function to create wacky unrealistic stuff.
This DM map (my fav DN3D DM map ever) uses some of that to create a crazy DM layout. This isn't an insane use of it, but it's used well and enough to create a very unique DM experience. http://dukerepository.com/maps/DmDucts
Damn, this map got released exactly 8 years ago... and I remember betatesting it with its author. Times flies!

Truth is, the way you can build this stuff is exactly the same way as you'd do to build multiple floors one above the other (remember, the engine isn't true 3D, so the same rules apply, you can't look at the same time at two layers which are on top of each other); and generally that's how people use it (even in the commercial games) rather than to build wacky stuff.

In the SW map I'm making, I've made extended use of this; for instance, a building has a first floor, a 2nd floor; and on both floors there are also vents which use this sector overlap system to connect rooms together (the vents actually go through other rooms or space outside the building, without that being noticeable).
Also, SW has a pretty cool feature (mainly used for their 'Room Over Room' system) which can drags sectors (whole areas) beneath or below other sectors in game. By that I mean that, in the editor things are not on top of each other, but in game they will be (contrary to the regular way of the engine of making overlapping sectors, in which things really are on top of each other in the editor) ; and I've used this feature in my SW map to make the underwater section actually be beneath the map (underwater sections use a teleporting system); which means that in game that's another layer of gameplay literaly underneath the gameplay area.


>>1872004
>so there's never really any "overlap" even though it feels like they're occupying the same space.

Not sure what definition of 'overlap' you are using, but things do occupy the same spaces.

[NESfag No.1872062]

>>1872051
>Not sure what definition of 'overlap' you are using, but things do occupy the same spaces.
Well.. ok i see what you mean. They occupy the same space if you think of it in terms of 'real life rules'; but in the engine it's not the same space. It's several different spaces located at the same coordinates...

[Anonymous No.1872086]

>>1872051
>http://dukerepository.com/maps/DmDucts

Why didn't I hear of this map ever before? It's fucking awesome.

[NESfag No.1872106]

>>1872086
It's on Megaton's workshop too if you want to play it online using Megaton.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=210374933

The map is vanilla compatible though so it should work using xDuke and Metldown too.

But yeah this map is great for 2-3 players (haven't tried with more). Totally at the top of my top3 fav DM usermaps; I also love Krachtest and Library (the original, not the DX version that comes with Megaton).

BTW - There is a DM usermap by Levelord, one of the level designers of DN3D, which uses Sector over Sector to pretend having 2 rooms at the same physical space, Iand both rooms are connected like in Tier Drops. Called Cigam
http://dukerepository.com/maps/Cigam

[Anonymous No.1872119]

>>1872106
>megaton

Nah.

>But yeah this map is great for 2-3 players (haven't tried with more).

Seriously going to try it when I spot some people over Yang.

>Cigam

I knew about that and played it with some friends and I didn't have a lot of fun, good idea but poor execution.

[NESfag No.1872135]

>>1872119
People still use Yang? I thought everybody moved to Metldown these days. Well, anything works I guess.

If you play Duke DM often I'm going to self-promote myself again and recommend you the 2 DM maps I've made
Both recommended for 2-3 players, maybe 4. hhttp://dukerepository.com/maps/Canyon_Bunker
http://dukerepository.com/maps/Atomic_Bunker

This is the 2nd version of Canyon Bunker and looking back at it I think I ruined the map a bit in that version. I added stupid steroids and jetpack which make it too easy to own the place...

[Anonymous No.1872149]

>>1872135
>Metldown
The hell is that? Why are people constantly changing netplay frontends?

>If you play Duke DM often
I used to, then I really couldn't anymore because reasons, I'm looking forward to get back in shape.

[Anonymous No.1872157]

Anonymous 08/19/14(Tue)01:54:29 No.1872149▶
>>1872135
>Metldown
The hell is that? Why are people constantly changing netplay frontends?

>If you play Duke DM often
I used to, then I really couldn't anymore because reasons, I'm looking forward to get back to it. Thanks for the maps.

[Anonymous No.1872162]

>Metldown
The hell is that? Why are people constantly changing netplay frontends?

>If you play Duke DM often
I used to, then I really couldn't anymore because reasons, I'm looking forward to get back to it. Thanks for the maps.

[Anonymous No.1872164]

>>1872162
I give up.

[Anonymous No.1872229]

>>1858836
It's so fuckign smooth, what the hell?

[Anonymous No.1873441]

>>1872051
>There is actually not that many maps that I know of which use those function to create wacky unrealistic stuff.
That fucking sucks.

[Anonymous No.1873663]

>>1872119
>I knew about that and played it with some friends and I didn't have a lot of fun, good idea but poor execution.

Yeah, it was left out of the final game for a reason. It's more like a proof of concept, and an unfinished one. The 'final' version of that concept is Tier Drops.
I had fun with it for a little while though.

[Anonymous No.1873689]

>>1862987
>>1862974
>>1862997

The transformation sequence is also existent in the game's alpha (although it isn't implemented)

[Anonymous No.1873945]

>>1873689
>Animorphs

[Anonymous No.1874742]

>>1872162
Pretty sure Meltdown has been backdoored versions ago

I used to play Duke on it years ago, one day I got an update and then an antivirus alert, then I started seeing forum posts about the new Meltdown having a trojan attached

Uninstalled and never used it again.

[Anonymous No.1875654]

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rNxob25pBw
Did Redneck Rampage have different versions ? I don't remember hearing "hey fucker" from those guys.

[NESfag No.1875660]

>>1875654
Yeah, there is a "cuss pack" that changes some of the voices in the game. It basically adds a fuckton of insults and makes the game worse.

[Anonymous No.1875668]

>>1875660
Ha, that's what I though.
any lyrics for I don't want no Cybersex and Disgraceland ?

[Anonymous No.1875682]

>>1873945
This book was my GOAT book as a kid.

[Anonymous No.1878283]

>>1874742
I remember hearing about a 'war' within the small Dukematch community... Some guy made his own client or something as a result as that.

The dukematch 'community' seems fucking lame anyway.

[NESfag No.1878331]

>you can pick up shurikens stuck onto walls
>Rippers actually eat your heart after they kill you
>you can destroy a rocket with another rocket
>that way your head bounces when you get blown up by an explosive

Small things I love about SW

Also I only discovered you could drive this boat (and shoot with it) after several playthroughs of this Twin Dragon map

[Anonymous No.1878345]

>>1878331
That's my favorite level in SW.

[NESfag No.1878356]

>>1878345
IMO they ruined it with the fucking mines. I fucking hate them. I've been replaying the entire game + both add ons on skill4 while doing katana/shuriken start on every level and while only saving at the start of each map.... And those mines made me restart the level 3 times. Pissed me off!

But the map makes a great use of the boat.
My fav map is Twin Dragon is probably the first one... not sure, some maps stand out. I think the best SW maps ever however are in Wanton Destruction, notably the first 2 maps are of incredible gameplay in every single aspect (love the secrets in the 2nd map "Garden" by Wieder).

Sadly both add-ons are inconsistent and some maps are "only" average...

[Anonymous No.1880049]

>>1878356
>doing katana/shuriken start on every level and while only saving at the start of each map
...What's the point? The only reason to save at the start of every level is to keep your weapons if you die but if you're intentionally depriving yourself of weapons the saved game serves no purpose.

[Anonymous No.1880054]

>>1880049
he saves so he can quit and go back to the level if he needs to do something else.

[Anonymous No.1880069]

>>1860640
Blood's on Steam for $5.

[NESfag No.1880316]

>>1880054
This, because on skill4 you can't use cheats and therefore can't switch to any level at will

[Anonymous No.1880542]

>>1871879
Here's a nice page breaking down the duke3d implementation of Build. He's also got pages taking a look at other GPL'd source, fun stuff.
http://fabiensanglard.net/duke3d/index.php

[NESfag No.1880657]

>>1880542
This is exactly the site I read and that I was looking for a thread or two ago. This should be linked to anyone who asks why you can't simply run other Build engine games in EDuke32.

[Anonymous No.1881881]

>>1862964
The Beast can swim if you put him in a map, but can't attack while submerged. I guess they never got to that.

[Anonymous No.1882827]

Pic related. Your sister's panties when she forgot her tampon at the time of the month.

[Anonymous No.1883953]

Has anybody tried to Duke Nukem Forever remake mod for Duke 3D? Is it any good?

[Anonymous No.1883965]

Is there a better map editor for Duke 3D than mapster32?

[Anonymous No.1885195]

>>1883953
Worth a try.

>>1883965
No.

[NESfag No.1885312]

>>1883953
Yeah it's good. Far from the greatest Duke3D mod ever, but it's good.

A couple of other people also made a 3 level addon for it, and personally think the 2nd level of that addon is awful though.

>>1883965
You don't seem to realize how great Mapster32 is compared to any other Build editor. It adds a fuckton of small features that make mapping easier, faster and more convenient; as well as giving you access to EDuke32 only features.
There is no "modern" map editor like DoomBuilder though. Mapster32 is still based on obscure key combinaisons you have to learn; but it's not that hard to learn, it's just not userfriendly.

[Anonymous No.1885404]

Trying to get this NAM build-engine game to work:
http://www.theisozone.com/downloads/pc/dos-games/nam-napalm-pc-iso/

In dosbox I used "imgmount n d:\tmp\nam.iso" and then ran the n:\install.exe, which installed the game to c:\nam and dropped me back to DOS. Then ran setup.exe and configured sound card, etc. but when saving config and launching the game, it starts loading but then drops back to DOS with the error "Please put NAM CD in drive", even though the ISO is still mounted on n:, and also the c:\cdrom.ini contains this:
N:\support\
(which is weird because there's no "support" directory on the ISO...)
So anyway, has anyone managed to get this game working?

[Anonymous No.1885408]

>>1885404
Uh, I meant c:\nam\cdrom.ini
I also tried changing the contents of that file to point to n:\nam\ but that didn't help any.

[Anonymous No.1885416]

>>1885404
Nam works with eduke32.

[Anonymous No.1885459]

>>1885404
Add "-t cdrom" at the end of your imgmount line.

[Anonymous No.1885547]

>>1885416
Thanks, that works.

>>1885459
Unfortunately it doesn't change the error, even if I also add "-fs iso" after that. Maybe it's trying to read some CD audio track or something...

[Anonymous No.1886576]

>>1885312
what are the best/must-play duke 3d level expansion campaigns iyo?

[NESfag No.1886726]

>>1886576
The DN3D community has always been more about individual maps than episodes and mods, which is why I'd recommend to dig through what's available in the best rated single maps, though there has been some great stuff in the regard of episodes/modstoo.

For episodes, check out
- WGRealms (1) [The WGrealms1 can be played in WGRealms2, too, but I recommend playing the original version first]
- WGSpace episode (the best take on space levels)
- DaikariN
- The Brave New World
- Duke Hard

If you want maps that are more like the original game, check out
- New York Rebellion
- Metropolitan Mayhem

For mods that are based on DN3D but aren't Duke3D anymore (are more than that), try:
- Starship Troopers
- WGRealms 2
- AMC TC

There is what comes on top of my head, I'm probably missing tons. Though imo nothing will ever beat the official addon Caribbean Life, if you haven't played it yet.

[Anonymous No.1886738]

>>1886726
Does Roch classify as an episode?

[NESfag No.1886784]

>>1886738
The maps were designed to be played individually... So, I'd say no; but then again i think it was released as an episode too (and you can keep your gear in between maps) and one of the map is even the 'secret' map.

[Anonymous No.1887731]

>>1886576
Duke Hard came out a couple months back, nice vanilla episode.

[NESfag No.1887949]

>>1887731
There is actually a couple of things in Duke Hard which aren't vanilla. For instance the secret map goes slightly over the old building limit (I know it doesn't look like it, but basically walls and sectors were wasted in this map); and the E2L1 style alien spaceship throwing rockets of the boss map couldn't have worked as such in vanilla (because in vanilla, they have to be almost at player level for the rocket to work; but in eduke32 it works at any height).
There is also probably some instances of people using the EDuke32 "no shade" value on sprites (which allows you to use different shading values on sprites within a same sector); and I don't think the map Randomizer and its unlocking could have been made without EDuke32.

But yeah, in spirit it's very true to the original game. It just uses a few EDuke32 features to be a vanilla+ experience.

[Anonymous No.1888039]

>>1886726
>- WGRealms
What is this thing? I think I downloaded it ages ago and didn't know what the fuck was happening. It was like class choosing and shit and I didn't know what the fuck I had to do.

[Anonymous No.1888068]

>>1862741
Witchaven II seems a lot better, but still suffers from the awkward movement and weirdly scaled/ugly textures. Biggest problem with Witchaven IMHO is that you have to guestimate the reach of your melee weapons.

[NESfag No.1888084]

>>1888039
That'd be WGRealms2. WGRealms1 is a 5 maps episode for DN3D using new textures.

WGRealms2, although based on Duke, is standalone. it's pretty good though they went too far into magic powers and shit for my taste.
At the start you have to choose between several magic powers.

[Anonymous No.1890038]

>>1887949
Ah, well they mentioned "don't add any stuff on top" in the readme. I'm not all that familiar with Build's vanilla boundaries.

[NESfag No.1890560]

>>1890038
Yeah it's supposed to be as vanilla as EDuke32 can be; which means not vanilla due to a small few things, but still pretty damn close. But the episode wouldn't have ran in vanilla as such anyway because the original game only supports about 12 maps per episode and this has 17.