/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1743712]

Are there any RPGs that make level grinding fun?

[Anonymous No.1743717]

I think grinding in FF2 and FF5 is somewhat fun.

[Anonymous No.1743720]

>>1743717
FFV is somewhat fun because there are many choices of abilities and classes to quickly wipe large groups of monsters. For example you could use four Berserkers to grind hands-off, or use a Blue Mage to find a LVL 5 Death-able group and grind it, the sky is the limit.

FFII has some fun options for grinding like the Generals in the second town you visit that are supposed to wipe the floor with you but can be defeated through some strategy very early for hefty stat bonuses and expensive loot. But generally, grinding through select-cancel or repeatedly hitting your own characters is a chore, and simply fighting trash mobs repeatedly yields you next to nothing.

[Anonymous No.1743725]

>>1743712
I never understood the appeal of Dragon Warrior. It's just endless grinding. You beat the same monsters over and over and over and over for hours and hours. I made it to level 12 before dying of total boredom.

I know Dragon Warrior has its place in gaming history, but holy cow I hate playing it.

[Anonymous No.1743727]

>>1743712
Pokemon.

[Anonymous No.1743731]

>>1743725
>I never understood the appeal of Dragon Warrior.
Japanese autism.

[Anonymous No.1743767]

>>1743725
The open world where you can go anywhere as long as your dude is strong enough is kind of cool. It has a really good economy for a jrpg - money is genuinely valuable and you have to make meaningful decisions about what to buy and when to buy it. It's good at teasing you by placing towns in places that are easy to see, but hard to reach, and since small equipment upgrades make a big difference, there's a payoff when you finally get there.

I know it's really shallow, but so are 99% of jrpgs. At least dragon warrior's random encounters are over quickly.

[Anonymous No.1743821]

>>1743725
The appeal is that it's a very simple story. King as you to rescue his daughter and kill the Dragon Lord. And that's just what you do. You find the magical thingies to get you to him and kill him. You may or may not rescue the princess. SNES/GBC upped the EXP and gold so it's less grindy if you want to try that. But really that's the major draw to Dragon Quest 1. 2 gives you more of a personal reason to kill Malroth but the idea is still the same. One solid goal with no plot twists or other things that is now in every JRPG.

[Anonymous No.1743824]

>>1743712
I liked that with The 7th Saga and Mystic Ark, you could stand still and let enemies come to you like Ogre Battle. You can just toggle frameskip or fast forward, while you grind to levels in a few minutes

[Anonymous No.1743869]

>>1743725
The first one is very dated and any dq fan will be man enough to admit that. Still charming and since its so short if you use fast forward you can beat it in a couple of hours.

Later games are paced near perfectly and if you know what you're doing grinding really isn't nesescary. Plus they kept refining metal slime hunting which each game provides new ways to fell them which becomes rather addicting.

Overall though I'd still rank 1 better than 2 but mostly because 2 is so damn annoying. However if you're a fan of a game that has no hand holding whatsoever it's much better.

[Anonymous No.1743879]

>>1743869
>its so short

*It's so short

[IMX !!9/alULWmsW5 No.1743986]

Destiny Of An Emperor has arguably the best option in any RPG in the NES.

[Anonymous No.1744029]

>>1743986
Chaos World had a similar battle system except that you automatically fought everything without pressing buttons unless you needed to pause to use an item or cast a spell. Quick fights

[Anonymous No.1744086]

>>1743725
I found grinding in DQ1 to be kind of relaxing. Used to do it in my room with the lights off before bed and always fell right asleep afterwards.

[Anonymous No.1744221]

>>1743725
I had a lot of fun playing it back in 1991, was my second JRPG right after Final Fantasy. Well might have played Faxanadu in between, can't remember exactly. OTOH, too much linear story gets boring for me, so I'm not sure I want to check out later games in those series. Especially not ones that are heavy on the drama-queen stuff.

[Anonymous No.1744254]

>>1744221
II and III take after the original. Same world and everything. SNES and GBC remakes add content, polish, and smooth out the menus so you've got no excuse not to try them.

[Anonymous No.1744816]

>>1743725
I enjoy it far more than cinematic 60+ hour Jrpgs, personally.
It's simple and short. Makes you want to finish it. The original is pretty tedious but the SNES remake turns it into a legit good game.

[Anonymous No.1744856]

>>1744221
It's weird but while Dragon Quest is the father of the JRPG and basically others copied it Dragon Quest never really falls that much into the tropes more JRPG fall into. There's not much in the way of melodrama bullshit. You almost never play as a teenage outside 3 where you are 16. In V you get to actually live out the characters life from birth to adulthood. Where you actually marry and raise kids. Honestly try Dragon Quest out. It is one of the best series ever made.

[Anonymous No.1744950]

>>1744856
That place belongs more to Ultima and Wizardry and Wizardry had new characters start as teenagers which should be in line with the contemporary DnD rules.

[Anonymous No.1744962]

>>1743725
This. Back when I was like 8 and there wasn't much else like it it was kind of cool, but nowadays it's fuckawful.
>>1744086
>fell asleep right afterwards
You must mean during.

[Anonymous No.1744963]

>>1744856
I enjoy DQ but never was much into Jrpgs. As a firm pc fag the rpgs I respected were ones with more depth, roleplaying etc.
That's why I feel DQ is a series fit for people who might otherwise not enjoy the genre. I stayed away from it because everyone said it was grindy, generic. I definitely think It's not something most people will enjoy, it's very Japanese. Simple mechanics executed well, no special depth as an rpg, It's an adventure game. No heavy handed plots either - I find them more tasteful and relaxing than all the big complex FF plots.
It's the first jrpg series I enjoy for the gameplay alone, instead of trudging through a dungeon so I can see what happens next in the story.

[Anonymous No.1745123]

>>1743712
Suikoden series. Usually, newly encountered monsters give generous amounts of exp. If you have a low level character, take it with some high level ones and after a couple of fights the low level one gets a huge boost in levels. On top of that, you can let the party fight on auto.

[Anonymous No.1745182]

I hate to bring it up, but EB did this somewhat well with the way the entire battle and most of the game could be done one-handed. You could auto-fight, or just keep jamming L. The auto-win helped eliminate the majority of the most tedious grinding, since you wouldn't even need to go through the fight if it was a given that you would win. You could exploit that by giving yourself high critical chance, since the game took that into account.

Every RPG should have an auto-win condition like EB had. The elimination of battles against underpowered enemies when backtracking or grinding should be the standard.

[Anonymous No.1745205]

>>1743712
I rather liked it in Tales of Eternia, but that's mainly due to combat being fast, fluid, and fun.

[Anonymous No.1745370]

Doesn't really make it more "fun" to grind I'd say, but it adds a little incentive in any game where you can control your stat points. It's never much fun to spend outrageous amounts of time to gain a level and think "wow, shit I don't need any extra speed."
The stat-spreading always made the SMT games so comfy to grind through.

[Anonymous No.1745413]

>>1743725
If by endless grounding, you mean fighting random battles, then every single RPG is endless grinding.

You don't really need to grind that much on those games. I usually beat them underleveled.

[Anonymous No.1745708]

>>1745123
This. It's always nice to be able to use some random character I've never used and be able to catch them up to the rest of my party in 3-4 fights.

[Anonymous No.1745770]

>>1745205
That game still had the grindy feel, especially after the characters get powerful aoe attacks.

[Anonymous No.1745790]

>>1743767
Play Romancing SaGa series then, Minstrel Song or RS3. They have a similar mechanic DW has in terms of exploration, however compared to DW, the enemies level WITH the player's characters, so the difficulty factor is balanced. Only problem with SaGa series is that the bosses hit like a fucking truck.

[Anonymous No.1745804]

>>1745790
i've played through RS3 and thought it was ok. i'll check out minstrel song

[Anonymous No.1745809]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx6YzE3PT9U

[Anonymous No.1745928]

>>1745708
>>1745123
I like the idea of having lots of party members to choose from, given that they have unique attributes so that each player's personality is able to come through. That's probably a big part of why Pokemon is a fun RPG.

[Anonymous No.1745964]

There are 3 strategies to make grinding fun in a videogame

focus on Survival. Force the player to fight harder and harder monsters in places with little health recovery and no checkpoints. The more the player levels up, the farther they can get in the game. OP's pic' related.

Focus on Character growth. Grinding does more than just raise your stats, instead it lets you get points to play this minigame, or fill an experience tree, or changes your characters into even more powerful characters.
Pokemon, and Final fantasy and such.

Make the combat itself "fun". This one rarely works. Turn combat into a rhythm game or street fighter, Make using spells a long complicated process. Make each character an entirely different fighting style. or turn the battlefield into a huge chess board.
There were a lot a different strategies to "Evolve" RPGs during the PS1 era, and most of them involved these ideas.
The biggest problem with this strategy is if the combat is too deep then the random encounters take forever, and each fight is so different that you don't notice the difference leveling up makes for your character which makes leveling up a less interesting part of the game.
If you're lucky, the player will just mash the attack button and /MAYBE/ consider doing more special moves against bosses.

[Anonymous No.1745985]

>>1743712
Pretty much any WRPG will reward you with XP by finishing quests or what you choose in certain dialog trees, along with other stuff.

Go play Fallout and Arcanum.

[Anonymous No.1746031]

>>1743712
I don't know, but I always found regular grinding to be fun. It's kind of the fucking point of an RPG actually...

What you're asking would be like asking if there's an action game that lets you bypass all that running around and fighting or a Racing game that doesn't have any cars or courses in it...

Maybe RPGs aren't your thing. Or maybe you should just stick with Final Fantasy or something.

[Anonymous No.1746074]

>>1746031

The point of an RPG is to play a ROLE, not to grind mindlessly on slimes.

[Anonymous No.1746146]

>>1743879
Please leave the board.

[Anonymous No.1746158]

Any final fantasy except for 8

[Anonymous No.1746182]

>>1746031
JRPGs are that way to a degree.
Play Baldur's Gate and say it's all about the grinding.
Play Ultima and say it's all about the grinding. (4 and up.) Sure you fight monsters, but you're always fighting them as you're on your way to do something else. You aren't JUST fighting to gain levels, aka grinding.
Hell to get modern, play an Elder Scrolls game and say it's all about the grinding.

Do you even play games?

[Anonymous No.1746183]

>>1746074
no dude, he's right. The paced monotony of an RPG can be relaxing, if you're in the mood for something to wind down with before bed instead of getting you all amped up.

[Anonymous No.1746508]

how can grinding be fun? i mean what can you do to make grinding fun in a game?

[Anonymous No.1746524]

>>1743986
>Destiny Of An Emperor

I'm starting to see people post more about this game recently, and that makes me happy.

[Anonymous No.1746548]

>>1746508
watch a movie while you do it and glance over every 5, 20, 40, 60 minutes when you hear the level up fanfare and appreciate the small amount of sweet, sweet dopamine that gets released into your brain as you monotonously drudge past the meaningless goalposts you have accepted as the nearest to genuine achievements you'll ever attain

[Anonymous No.1746550]

>>1746508
Make the combat fast and simple, pace it well - you don't have to grind for hours, but gain 2-3 levels to make it through the next dungeon. Give the player options to gain extra exp by fighting certain monsters.
So yeah basically DQ

[Anonymous No.1746552]

>>1746548
>>1746550
oh, i guess i misunderstood the question.
yeah dq does grinding the best probably

[Anonymous No.1746574]

>>1746074
So Pac-Man is an RPG then?
I mean, you play the role of Pac-Man.

[Anonymous No.1746808]

>>1746550
I always felt Dragon Quest handled grinding way better than others. Not only did you have fast simple combat so each battle didn't feel like a chore. But you also had ways to both hind the grinding. Or at least make it feel like you are not doing the same thing other and other. Like it rewarded you for exploring by fight more monsters gaining more levels. Or giving you the exist and teleport item. So you can explore a dungeon until your MP is near done. Than cast exist and teleport to the nearest town to rest up and tackle the dungeon some more.

A lot of JRPG seem to be a bit more pathy in a way. Their dungeons isn't as complex as Dragon Quests dungeons (not say Dragon Quest dungeons are complex at all just more so). So you fight less enemies with makes you levels seem lower.

Also Dragon Quest levels are way more simple so you don't have to get out a excel spread sheet and calculate what is next. So you can just focus on the game and let the levels just gain.

And I feel lastly the biggest draw to Dragon Quest is that it doesn't play the numbers game. While most JRPG you see number in the thousands Dragon Quest your HP never feels that high. I'm playing Dragon Quest V right now and I'm level 12 and I'm not even past 100 HP. So each small gain feels just that more meaning full than in a game where when you level up you gain 200 HP.

[Anonymous No.1746814]

You never need to grind in a Dragon Quest game if you actually explore the world and don't just focus on only following the main quest exclusively. Unless you run from fights all the time, exploring random secrets and shit will get you plenty of experience.

[Anonymous No.1746816]

>>1743712
Generally RPGs with fast combat - early Might & Magic games are king in this aspect, and unfortunately with the way RPGs are heading, I don't think anything has a chance of dethroning them.

Which is also why I can't stand 99% of JRPGs, Dragon Quest included, because for some reason the idiot designers thought seeing the same one move animation getting used over and over hundreds of times is more important than making the combat less a fucking chore. I could squint my eyes over poor itemization, poor customization, stiff linearity, but this I just can't forgive no matter what.

[Anonymous No.1746824]

>>1746808
Let's not forget the only penalty for death is losing half your gold. For new players this is crippling since equip mean the most in nearly every entry. However, for the seasoned, you use this to your advantage because no matter what you're still gaining xp.

[Anonymous No.1746827]

>>1746548
I actually do this. I'll wait until I'm in a wide open area, look at the TV, and mash one button all day until I a commercial starts.

[Anonymous No.1746839]

>>1746548

[Anonymous No.1746854]

>>1743712
I think Zelda II is well balanced. You can work it out so you only have to grind one or two levels. The rest you can get from XP bags, normal progress, and defeating each castle. It takes some practice.

Worst case scenario you can just repeat the same castle a few times. Or go through the caves.

If you have to grind use the jumping spiders on the East map. Cast fire until you run out of magic, then visit the town to replenish.

[Anonymous No.1746862]

>>1746824
Not only that but it actually encourage exploring ever more. If you know there's no game over with death you feel more willing to go to places that in other JRPG you would feel worried going to.

Also I forgot. Dragon Quest doesn't have as many spells as other JRPG but each one actually has a use. Even against bosses. A boss that hits really hard? Try casting a spell so he misses more often. Have a shit ton of defense? Try lowering it. The smaller amount of spells makes you feel more willing to try them out. Some will do better against some enemies than others. But you are never just hitting attack and hoping to win. So not only are you gaining exp but you are not doing so mindlessly.

[Anonymous No.1746863]

>>1746854
leveling up in zelda II is fun because zelda II has good combat.

that's also why leveling up in final fantasy et al. isn't fun

[Bob No.1746893]

>>1743712

Best level grinder ever was the original Bard's Tale.

[Anonymous No.1746920]

>>1746862
While buffs/debuffs aren't as heavily relied upon such as the smt games, they still separate the good players from the bad.

I have a feeling that if people find dq3 and on grind it has more to do with them being used to attacking everything regardless of what it is in other jrpgs.

Another good example is the whack spell. Most jrpgs it's fairly useless skill. In DQ there are several usually tough enemies that are prone to it like king squids.

[Anonymous No.1746932]

>>1746863
yeah true. You can't compare it to turn-based grinding.

[Anonymous No.1747994]

>>1743712
Xenogears
Legend of Legaia
Legend of Dragoon

[Anonymous No.1748028]

>>1744950
Don't know about ultima but in Wizardry the age stat was just a crippling time limit.
It's not quite the same, in DQV you get to choose which girl to marry and that influences the story. It's like going from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z, there's a timeskip from childhood into adulthood and you can revisit all these places and watch how the other characters turned out, etc.

[Anonymous No.1748143]

Star Ocean's Skills system makes grinding fun because the more you level up, the more skills you can unlock and the more unlocked skills you have, the more fun shit you can craft, smith, write, compose and such.

You can even grind to get skills to reduce the need to grind.

(Also, does anyone know where can I find Pericci's old Super Famicom art? I was told she was like, 8 years old in the original Star Ocean instead of her tall and busty self from the psp remake and wah.

[Anonymous No.1748170]

>>1748143
>searched a booru and exhentai for promotions
>nothing

wat

[Anonymous No.1748208]

>>1748143
> All of her body armors are bikinis.
> CG art always shows her wearing a leotard.

What.

[Anonymous No.1748219]

>>1748143
Lesser Felpoll age differently from regular Felpoll and die a lot sooner.
I think one of the PA's addresses that (or was it a NPC?)

Couldn't find any SFC art of her, only Millie, Roddick, Ronyx, Dorne, Ilia, Ashlay and Ioshua.

[Anonymous No.1748286]

>>1748219
From what I was told, Pericci's original design (also known as Perisia) was a chubby little girl with a very kiddy speech pattern, as she was originally meant to be a Felicia ripoff and a joke character.

The lethal joke kind, that's it. With enough leveling up and skills growth she becomes a death machine that can zoom across the creen while she spams out murder and healing at low Mp cost.

[Anonymous No.1748403]

>>1748286
>across the creen

*Across the screen

[Anonymous No.1748692]

>>1746508
Well, for starters, it shouldn't have menu based combat. I think we can all agree that they are all snorefests, but they were designed to be. Having to use actual tactics instead of relying on chance is already a large improvement. Diablo comes to mind, as does Fallout. Japan has never really made any good role playing games for some reason.

Another thing, ditch levels altogether. Leveling up was always a retarded mechanic used to prolong gameplay by forcing you to replay a certain part over and fucking over until you somehow become strong enough to pile drive the next opposition until it somehow gets even fucking more difficult. I have never played a game with levels where as soon as you are strong enough to face the next enemy, you have trouble. It always becomes an easy as fuck fight until the next faggot you need to grind for. Instead, make fighting an option, where enemies may drop money or items to help make a game easier, but are by no means necessary for completion of the game.

tl;dr do not make grinding a chore or even necessary.

[Anonymous No.1748709]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RatGRwqdb0

[Anonymous No.1748716]

>>1748692
>how to fix level grinding?
>get rid of level grinding
Heh, I enjoy grinding.

[Anonymous No.1748725]

>>1748028
You shouldn't really need to get the age penalty. Since you should only nap when you level up and use that to regain your MP which than use it to cast cure spells on yourself.

But even V has ways to help grind. Since you can use powerful monsters on your team to basically carry your weak humans until they are strong enough to actually fight with you.
>>1746920
Yeah DQ is awesome with it's spells. but now I'm thinking of fucking DQ2 and how these guys used sacrifice against you

[Anonymous No.1748730]

>>1748725
>it's spells

*Its spells

[Anonymous No.1748734]

>>1748716
>how to fix level grinding?
>get rid of level grinding
Sounds like a plan to me.

[Anonymous No.1748759]

>>1748716
Same here. Also I feel if done right it can actually help with pacing. So you are not just blazing through it's story but taking bits at a time and while grinding taking time to reflect what just happened. Like taking time after each chapter to take a small break to think about all the stuff you just read. But only if it's done right.

[Anonymous No.1748778]

>>1748759
>it's story

*Its story

[Anonymous No.1748796]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBOK0j7PbZ8

[anon gamer No.1748861]

earthbound

[Anonymous No.1748952]

>>1748861
>Over level yourself in one area
>The game suddenly becomes a slower paced Ys

Neat.

[Anonymous No.1748985]

>>1743725
Not much else to say, a very simple jRPG being one of the first.

Just go in and slay the dragonlord.

[Anonymous No.1749692]

>>1743725
>I never understood the appeal of Dragon Warrior. It's just endless grinding.
Amen. In fact if you just use a cheat code to level up stupid fast, the entire game is over in about 15 mins.

[Anonymous No.1749801]

>>1743725
I might've thought that too but once I started playing it I got absorbed in it and I found it to be a very rewarding experience. Yes it does have a lot of grinding and it is a slow process, but that is something I actually enjoyed. I used to put a little time into it every morning when I got back in from work, to grind a little, get to the next level or get the right amount of gold to get that much-needed weapon, and when you got that weapon or reached higher levels, it felt like an accomplishment and you saw the fruits of your labour when you found that you were cutting down enemies easier when before you struggled with them. It was the first Dragon Quest game I even played.

[Anonymous No.1750218]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsREYx1LLWY

[Anonymous No.1750231]

>>1743725
Having played Phantasy Star 2 recently, I agree with this guy 100%, though I managed to finish it. Compare to PS4, which managed to be a fulfilling experience without the excessive grind.

[Anonymous No.1751259]

>>1750231
Honestly I just feel people bash Dragon Quest 1 grinding a bit too much. Not saying it doesn't have a shit ton of grinding. I'm just saying he took ideas from Ultima and Wizardry. And Wizardry had a shit ton of grinding as well. And for a game that was made in 1986 it was still learning. It's still a nice game with a straight forward objective that is a bit refreshing in his day of game. And by 3 Horii learned and made it so you never have to really grind as long as you explore and enjoy the world he makes. Now DQ 2 on the other hand. Fuck that game.

[Anonymous No.1751267]

>>1751259
Technically DQ2 doesn't really have a grind either in the traditional sense.

By that I'm saying you know what you need to do, but are too weak to do it. In contrast, DQ2 essentially gives you no clues whatsoever so by the time you actually stumble upon the next thing, you're already high enough level to take it on. Like that fucking water gate that's ABOVE the town.

Now replays on the other hand....

[Anonymous No.1751271]

>>1750231
The only grind in PS2 is the traditional "outside the first town" grind...

[Anonymous No.1751290]

>>1751267
True. Finding those crests was hairpulling maddening. Hell my mom had to call Nintendo Hotline for help and she was really into CRPG back than. I guess it doesn't help that the Cave to Rhone and the walk to the final saving point isn't really about your levels and just RNG if you will run into the wrong group and just die. I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU BATBOONS!

[Anonymous No.1751827]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir015UnFH1c

[Anonymous No.1752523]

>>1743712
Saga Frontier seem to deal with its "grinding" problem by making everything scale to you. OF course, you might want to take every side quest in this game and kill a bunch end tier mobs to get some higher stats. But hey, the latter is a wonderful way to get new tech/magic/gun skills and its always nice to see all your high level tech unleash on your foes with all those pretty effect.

Fallout also comes into mind and the only thing you be grinding is for equipment, not levels.

[Anonymous No.1752532]

>>1743869
The SFC remake of 1 and 2 is a nice way to play them. They hit that better balance of pacing seen in the later DQ games, and there are multiple takes on the translation, allowing you to either get a direct translation, or the NES-style old english stuff.

[Anonymous No.1752540]

>>1745205
Tales of Graces probably has the best combat system of all JRPGs, or at the very least of the Tales series. Definitely try the english PS3 release, Tales of Graces F, if you like Tales combat.

[Anonymous No.1752594]

>>1751259
There are translated remakes now so you can't complain. Nothing wrong with 1 or 2 on snes

[Anonymous No.1752646]

>>1751259
>And Wizardry had a shit ton of grinding as well.
Not really. Of course it depends on how fast you progress but you can generally keep exploring and get enough xp and loot to progress, just don't try to skip floors via the elevator. Only Werdna himself requires a bit of preparation.
2,3 and 5 are similar.

[Anonymous No.1752649]

>>1752646
But you have to restart the entire party if you fail. Surely it's easier to progress in DQ bthan Wizardry? This is why I find strange when people accuse DQ of grinding when they've played RPGs I find several times more tedios and punishing

[Anonymous No.1752675]

>>1752649
You could play Ultima or Bard's Tale if you can't avoid party wipeouts.
The thrill of potentially deadly encounters is part of Wizardry. There's nothing tedious about it

I don't mind grinding, it has a meditative quality. But in the original DQ you can't really use it to wind down from an intense adventure since it's pretty much everything you do and the actual adventures are more like a break from endless grinding.

[Anonymous No.1752678]

>>1752675
That's true for 1 yeah, and still there's a remake that makes it more enjoyable. I still enjoy such a short game of grinding more than an epic neverending adventure though.

[Anonymous No.1752687]

>>1743712
Well that depends.

You have to ask yourself:
Do enemy encounters actually feel like your playing a game rather than just selecting from lists?
Is there a variety of things to level up besides the character?
Can you choose the stats you level up?
Does each level up actually feel like you made a difference rather than simply gaining miniscule stat increases?
And is there enough variety in the gameplay that it doesn't get stale after the first 5 battles?