/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.1702759]

I dedicate this thread to the aesthetics of older games.

Talk about your favorites within these terms.

They're coming out with a remake for this, you likely already know. I think it's missing the point, entirely. Huge part of the appeal of the first two Oddworld games was the video compression artifacts and color dithering. Will continue in the next post.

[Anonymous No.1702763]

Create a new fully 3D engine, run it in 1080p without any of the original's inherent FMV lossiness and visual artifacts and this is what you get. The artistic direction is spot on, the assets themselves look great, but the crispy clean appearance of the 3D engine robs the game of all the filthy, rusty, slimy atmosphere of the originals.

[Anonymous No.1702768]

Game like COMI would lose it's charm without it's 8bit dithering. The artwork would still look great, but the visual grain the 256 color palette introduces adds that touch of warmth that a game like -- say -- A Vampyre Story lacks.

As much as we've progressed, so we've regressed. Working within the limitation of yesterday's hardware added a lot of (sometimes unintended) charm to many titles. The recent retro fad brought some really good looking pixelated stuff, but I'm yet to see a new game intentionally go after the looks of a game like Oddysee and Exoddus or Heart of Darkness.

[Anonymous No.1702790]

>>1702759
Cool, ill start posting some.

I've always enjoyed this type of art style I'm not what it's specific as but the whole interface and towns and to a lesser extent even the units are just beautiful.

[Anonymous No.1702793]

>>1702790
As for this the buildings and roads are just absolutely gorgeous and it had some pretty good details for such an older game e.g you can see the market lady walking about with the pot and taking them to different house.
Damn shame I still have not managed to defeat Lugundum.

[Anonymous No.1702795]

>>1702793
This one is pretty similar to the C3 but I like how the game has more colour in them without being a vomit of colours.

[Anonymous No.1702803]

>>1702795
And finally this gem, I don't if it's nostalgia or something else but it always had a sweet spot in my heart, whether how the Commando's icon faced you on clicking on them, or the interface with the items and let's not forget how good the german soliders look and the buildings themselves.

[Anonymous No.1702806]

>>1702793
>>1702795

Pharaoh was my favorite of that bunch. I liked all the mud and grit.

[Anonymous No.1702813]

>>1702763
I for one am going to buy it, because the success of this game is what will warrant a new Oddworld game, and I for one want to see more of the world. I personally have no problem with the shiny coat of paint, but I do understand where you are coming from with the lack of filth/rust/slime

[Anonymous No.1703071]

>>1702795
>Zeus
ma cracka

[Anonymous No.1703115]

I've always liked how this game looked

[Anonymous No.1703120]

>>1703115
>MAGIC CLAW

[Anonymous No.1703138]

>>1702795
>dat music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=y12Sr6fGm28#t=109

[Anonymous No.1703142]

>>1703115
OH MY GOD ALL THIS NOSTALGIA

[Anonymous No.1703165]

I absolutely love isometric games, mostly RPG and RTS. They look beautiful to me, take the dark, moody appeareance of Arcanum, all the strange landcapes of Planescape, the detailed and colorful levels of Desperados or Robin Hood:Legend of Sherwood. When an isometric series like Commandos got 3D sequels it was always disappointing.

[Anonymous No.1703365]

One of the most beautiful games of it's time -- honest opinion.

Great use of colors, great backgrounds, all sorts of little animations adding life to the scenes. Great attention to detail from very competent artists.

All back in '92! And it still works in 2014! Yeaaaaaa!!!!!

[Anonymous No.1703417]

>>1702759
>>1702763
I can see what you mean. But it's not that somehow lower fidelity is better (that'd be absurd), it's that your brain/imagination is making up the extra dirt details in the blurry places, while in the remake you see everything more clearly.

Hopefully the final version of New n Tasty gets some extra small detailing on the 3D models to compensate (even if just some simple bump mapping), that 2013 screenshot has too many dead-straight edges which make it look too clean

[Anonymous No.1703430]

>>1703365
One of the great DOS platformers the console elitists will never get to play.

[Anonymous No.1703479]

3D games around 1999-2000 have the best ratio of polygon count and texture resolution. Even if something looks low-poly by today's standards, you can still see the accuracy in modelling. Newer 3D games often have higher poly-count models but too low texture resolutions, or higher texture resolutions but low-poly models, or higher both texture resolution as well as higher-poly models, but lack accuracy in modelling

[Anonymous No.1703509]

>>1702793
PLEBS ARE NEEDED!

[Anonymous No.1703536]

>>1703430

All I ever hear is "how can you play it without analog controls" and I just shrug every time. I don't like velocity sensitive controls. Not in platformers and not even in caring games. I feel I have more control rapidly tapping my binary directional keys than having to think about how hard I've pressed a button. I find it more enjoyable as well.

Plus, I hate the childish aesthetics of console classics like Donkey Kong, Sonic and whatnot. Not to imply I'm a big mature man, I just simply don't like how that shit looks. I like to see more imagination like, say, the bizarre creatures and environments of Keen 6.

[Anonymous No.1703541]

>>1703479

Uh, I thoroughly disagree here. You can't put -- say --Project CARS next to Colin 2 and say Colin 2 looks better. It just... Doesn't. You can't put Crysis next to SOF 2 and claim the same either.

I know what you mean, but it's not exactly a rule or anything. Some modern games intentionally exaggerate things, but so did games back then. I really don't quite see your point.

[Anonymous No.1703556]

>>1703430
>>1703536

>The game was later ported to the Game Boy and Super Nintendo Entertainment System as Prehistorik Man. The SNES version was in turn ported too to the Game Boy Advance and DSiWare, with the latter being released in North America on February 15, 2010.

[Anonymous No.1703642]

Love what Blood 2 tried to do, hate how it turned out.

[Anonymous No.1703707]

>>1702763
>>1702759
>>1703417
It's more than the filter.
In fact it isn't the filter at all.

The Sprites for abe and the sligs and everything else were all sprites, so whether they were on the left side of the screen or the right, you always saw them at the exact same angle.

With the 3D models, they can make subtle changes in the Models angle depending on where he is on screen, giving the game an increased sense of depth.

This has been, and always will be, the STUPIDEST THING you can do when remaster a 2D sprite game.

In the eyes of the developer, Having everything in the game appear flat and using fixed cameras was compromise. They see it as an unrealistic way of depicting the scene because of the limitations of pre rendered sprite graphics.

However it isn't that unrealistic at all, It's a telephoto zoom. You can get this effect with 3D models or Real life settings by Pulling the camera as far back as possible and zooming in all the way. It makes things appear flat, and makes the background look like a painted backdrop whether it is one or not.

Most audiences would not be able to notices this exact difference between looks, but they do notice that something is missing and feels off when 2D games are rendered into 3D. Whether they understand the Telephoto effect or not, they still appreciate something about it. It gives us a sense of detachment and helps the world feel more alien. And it also makes it easier to accept the way the camera dissects all the floors and walls of the scenery so we can view the game in that side angle.

[Anonymous No.1703837]

>>1703707
except that in your pic you can clearly see both floor levels are viewed at different angles, there is no flatness

[Anonymous No.1703939]

>>1703837
Whether the subjects of the shot (the sligs and mudokons) are on the top floor level or the bottom one, the same sprites are used depicting the same image at the same angle. The background, and the use of the models in the new 3D remake, however, reflect the shallower camera depth that was originally intended. The flatness of the original games sprites was a compromise in the perspective of the game's creators.

To the viewer of the original game, the contrast between the flatness of the subjects and the depth of the background makes the eye exaggerate the backgrounds depth even further.
Many 2D games before Oddworld used different techniques like parallax effects to make the scenery look 3D while the subjects remained 2D. This visual effect makes rooms in 2D games look much more open than they actually are and makes the player feel they are covering more ground in platformers, or makes cramped rooms in mazes feel less claustrophobic.

Again, this is an effect that is usually lost in a conversion to 3D.

[Anonymous No.1703990]

>>1703707
>This has been, and always will be, the STUPIDEST THING you can do when remaster a 2D sprite game.
Fucking thank you, I always feel alone in this opinion. 3D graphics are not conducive to 2D gameplay.

[Anonymous No.1704402]

>>1703479
I agree, this period of tech and upto ~2004 with certain games. maintains all the visuals necessary used in modern games to service any game play devices, whilst also permitting the player - like in sprite games, to utilize their imagination to form a realistic image in their own mind. Whereas in modern games, they are so committed to maintaining the illusion of a reality that as soon as, in your example low textures are noticed, any sense of immersion is lost. And with consoles technical limitations in regards to textures this problem has only gotten worse, as the industry has sought it's monopoly through technical visual advances for marketing ROI. As a result it has halted the evolution and innovation of gameplay.
Every new console release get another higher poly GTA3 remix.

Also the best poly and texture mix is in SWG, the extent of the immersion created with the tech limits is amazing.

[Anonymous No.1704431]

>>1703541
pcars and crysis are glorified tech demos, the graphics/physics are their main selling point

[Anonymous No.1704471]

>>1703365
does anyone have that link with the latest Dosbox builds that are not on the official website?

[Anonymous No.1705308]

>>1702803
Fuck yes.

How about Robin Hood: Legend of Sherwood?

[Anonymous No.1705318]

>>1702759

The Tomb raider games had a lot of nice-looking levels. One particular part that I really like is the lost library with its star-covered ceiling.


Plus we can't neglect Final Fantasy 9 and all of its comfy areas.

[Anonymous No.1705751]

>>1704431
Didn't play peecars yet, but Crysis was a good game. Would be even better if it weren't so ridiculously easy, but it's very enjoyable nonetheless. Especially in contrast to all the recent console ports. It feels somewhat like a modern Delta Force game, only not utter shit like those games were.

>>1703707
I know well what you mean, but I still maintain that it's the visual artifacts that come with that '90s FMV territory that really make the biggest difference atmosphere-wise. It's also the canned animations of the sprite and their rigidly defined frames-per-second that suffer in the 3d conversion.

More in line with what you said though -- the remakes look "toybox" like, for a lack of a better word. There's a LittleBigPlanet vibe going on where everything feels like a miniature. The originals felt more like real worlds but observed from a very weird perspective that you describe very well in that last paragraph.

To make matters worse, the camera follows the character now. I won't get into the gameplay changes this implies, it's not important now. The thing I have a problem with is how fake and small it makes the world feel.

[Anonymous No.1705779]

anyone noticed that most of the "retro" styled indie games nowadays look more like flash games than actual old school video games? I assume most game developers have played a NES, how hard is it to get it right

[Anonymous No.1705784]

>>1705779

The fact that they're retro does not imply a desire to completely recreate the old school experience. In fact, as a rule, most "retro" things are simply homages to styles of old, rather than faithful recreations.

[Anonymous No.1705796]

>>1705784
>continued

Having said that, I'll use this opportunity to rant against people who get a hissy fit whenever "pixelated 8bit" games use different sized pixels instead of sticking to a single uniform resolution throughout to emulate the limitations of old hardware.

One game in particular that got shat on a lot for this reason was Hotline Miami. Jesus christ, did the autists shit on that for no good reason at all. I got the impression that game was an homage the first GTA game and if you'd revisit it, it's quite the mess pixel-size wise. Hotline Miami did good in recreating that mess and varying pixel sizes as well as rotating pixels is a part of that. GTA 1 had all that, as well as a 3D assets.

[Anonymous No.1705797]

I really like the aesthetic of PS1-era per-rendered stuff like in the Final Fantasy games and Oddworld.

[Anonymous No.1705815]

Ahem...

[Anonymous No.1705867]

>>1703990
I honestly think 3D is cheaper to produce now. They could pay a guy with a computer to punch out one model and animate it, or they could pay a pen-and-ink artist to draw hundreds to thousands of frames per character.

I hate it, but I don't think proper 2D is ever making a comeback at this point. It's like practical effects in movies; you can pay to build some crazy, elaborate set with pyrotechnics and moving parts and pay stunt doubles and possibly insurance/medical costs, or you could pay a guy to whip up a scene on a computer.

[Anonymous No.1705902]

>>1705867
The Graphics in Oddworld were not hand drawn, though. Like Donkey Kong country, the characters were modeled and animated into 3D and they basically took screenshots of that animation and put them in the game.

None the less it is still scene as an unecessary step now compared to just putting the 3D model in the game.
And the look of the sprite can easily be replicated using the 3D model. Messing with the scale and position of the Z Axis (or rather pull the camera back and zoom in)

[Anonymous No.1705990]

>>1705902
I was just speaking on sprite-based 2D in general, although it is an interesting point you bring up that prerendered CG sprites have their own personality, distinct from real-time 3D rendering, despite beginning their lives as 3D renders.

[Anonymous No.1706131]

>>1705902

If only the actually realized -- hey, people actually want this.

I see no reason why New 'n' Tasty couldn't have been a prerendered platformer like the originals -- albeit in 1080p. I can't believe developers are *still* stuck in this "people won't play it if it's not 3D" mindset.

It's 2014, for fuck's sake. If you're small, you earn your audience by sticking out from the competition, not blending in. Daedalic are making a name for themselves by creating point and click adventures for '90s fans of Lucas Arts and Sierra. Apart from utterly nailing the visuals, they're doing a meh job of it, but people are eating it up because nobody else is making these games.

Oddworld was successful primarily for it's visuals. If you're doing a remake, you damn well better deliver in that regard.

[Anonymous No.1706564]

>>1706131
>Oddworld was successful primarily for it's visuals.
not an accurate statement

oddworld was good because it did the ugliness of the world right, not because it was sprite-based/prerendered instead of real-time rendered 3D

[Anonymous No.1706573]

[Anonymous No.1707516]

>>1706564

... And a huge part of getting the ugliness of the world right was the artifacts that come with the prerendered graphics is my point.

[Anonymous No.1707523]

>>1707516

[Anonymous No.1707525]

>>1707523

yrong!